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#16
From Suharto to Mubarak: History Repeats Itself?

President Suharto of Indonesia was deposed following mass protests in May 1998. The Western media in chorus pointed to "democratization": the "King of Java" had been deposed by mass protests, much in the same way as Hosni Mubarak, described by today's media as "The Pharaoh of Egypt".


Student protest movement in May 1998 in Jakarta

The 1997 Asian Crisis

The 1997 Asia financial crisis which served to impoverish millions of people was instigated by institutional speculators. It was a process of deliberate market manipulation. It consisted in destabilizing national currencies, through "short selling".

The Indonesian rupiah was destabilized, food prices skyrocketed, real wages collapsed by more than fifty percent. Nike workers in export manufacturing were receiving $45 a month before the crisis. In the wake of the devaluation of the rupiah, their wages plummeted to less than $20 a month.

The May 1998 protest movement against president Suharto was triggered by widespread poverty and social inequality resulting from the IMF's  deadly "economic medicine" imposed both prior and in the wake of the Asian crisis.

On May 13, 1998,  the shooting of six students at Trisakti University in Jakarta led to demands for the resignation of president Suharto, who had occupied the presidency for 31 years.

In a commentary published in the Irish Times in May 1998, Global Research author Finian Cunningham addressed the euphoria of the Western media, which portrayed Suharto as the "The King of Java deposed by his people" (See Irish Times, May 22nd 1998)

   [This assessment] seriously misjudges the balance of power not only in Indonesia but in many other parts of the world. The main lesson from Indonesia's turmoil should be the decisive role played by the United States and the International Monetary Fund. If any party should take credit for decisively bringing down Suharto it is these enforcers of the global capitalist order - not people power ... After 30-odd years of milking the rich resources of Indonesia, it became clear last autumn when Indonesia caught the Asian financial flu, that Suharto was no longer expedient for Western powers. Unlike the other lame Asian Tigers, Suharto proved to be insufficiently nimble in administering the usual IMF neoliberal shock treatment for so-called recovery. ... The upshot of this neo-colonialism allows for greater control of a country's resources by foreign capital and it invariably leaves the mass of people even more destitute, as wealth is siphoned off at ever greater speed to stock exchanges in New York and London.

   Already the signs in Indonesia are ominous. Suharto's successor is no more committed to democracy and social justice, the country's military machine continues to operate with brutal efficiency, and, note this, the IMF is redoubling its calls for "market reforms" and cuts in public spending.

   Unfortunately, this is not a case of  "King deposed by the people". It is more a case of "Henchman called off by the Mob" - the Mob being the Western financial elite - who can get on with beating up the Indonesian people with another instrument. (Finian Cunningham, Irish Times, 25 May 1998) [1]

The top brass of both the Indonesian and Egyptian military and intelligence apparatus were trained and groomed in America, at the same military academies. Both Mubarak and Suharto were installed by Washington.

Both regimes and their military committed atrocities against their people. Both leaders served to undermine post-colonial nationalism.  

The 1965 CIA sponsored Massacre

In 1965, Major General Suharto instrumented  a CIA sponsored massacre of more than half a million members and supporters (including family members) of the Communist Party of Indonesia. The massacre was  implemented in coordination with the US embassy: the ultimate objective was to weaken and unseat the nationalist Sukarno government which had the backing of the Communist Party.

Air Force Marshall Hosni Mubarak, in a different context, served a similar role in the transition from the nationalist Nasser-Sadat period. He became Vice-President in 1975 and was installed as president in the wake of the assassination of Anwar  Sadat in 1981.

Declassified documents confirm the extent of the US sponsored massacre in Indonesia:.

   For example, U.S. Embassy reporting on November 13, 1965 passed on information from the police that ?from 50 to 100 PKI members were being killed every night in East and Central Java?.?; and the Embassy admitted in an April 15, 1966 airgram to Washington that ?We frankly do not know whether the real figure [of PKI killed] is closer to 100,000 or 1,000,000 but believe it wiser to err on the side of the lower estimates, especially when questioned by the press.?  On page 339, the volume seems to endorse the figure of 105,000 killed that was proposed in 1970 by foreign service officer Richard Cabot Howland in a classified CIA publication.

   On another highly controversial issue ? that of U.S. involvement in the killings ? the volume includes an ?Editorial Note? on page 387 describing Ambassador Marshall Green?s August 10, 1966 airgram to Washington reporting that an Embassy-prepared list of top Communist leaders with Embassy attribution removed ?is apparently being used by Indonesian security authorities who seem to lack even the simplest overt information on PKI leadership at the time?.? On December 2, 1965, Green endorsed a 50 million rupiah covert payment to the Kap-Gestapu movement leading the repression; but the December 3 CIA response to State is withheld in full (pp. 379-380).

   The CIA?s intervention in the State Department publication is only the latest in a series of such controversies, dating back to 1990 when the CIA censored a State volume on Iran in the early 1950s to leave out any reference to the CIA-backed coup that overthrew Mossadegh in 1953.

   (see National Security Archive, ,http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB52/

Regime Change in Indonesia

The atmosphere in Jakarta in May 1998 was one of jubilation, very similar to what is now occurring in Egypt. Suharto was replaced on the orders of Washington by his Vice President B. J. Habibie.

   " For the students it was a case of "The king is dead, down with the king!"... The mood had begun to change in the early hours when rumours ran wild that President Suharto was going to address the nation at 9a.m. Hundreds gathered round a large television monitor in the filthy, dimly-lit foyer as a tired looking Gen Suharto appeared.

   They listened silently until the only Indonesian president they have ever known told them: "I have decided to step down from office as the president of Indonesia, effective today, Thursday, May 21st, 1998, from the time I finish reading this statement."

   At that they emitted a collective yell of jubilation which continued for several minutes. No one heard Gen Suharto go on to announce that under the constitution his deputy, Mr B.J. Habibie, would become president for the remainder of his term which ends in 2003. Nor did they hear Gen Suharto conclude by saying: "I beg forgiveness for any mistakes and shortcomings." [massacre of 500,000 people, M.C.]

   The students were dancing on the roof, leaping into the long ornamental fountain outside, jumping in the air and even rolling among the debris of three days of occupation.

   Some wept, others prayed, couples hugged each other, incredulous that just nine days after troops killed four of their number at Trisakti campus in Jakarta, they had managed to bring down the leader they held accountable.

   .... The night before, Gen Wiranto had assessed the security situation with the three service chiefs and the head of the national police. The outlook was bleak. Students representing 50 universities were planning to stay in parliament until Suharto resigned. They had widespread support, even from the military. [This support was part of the process of regime change compare with Egypt, M. C.Emphasis added]

   "The building belongs to the people, all of us," said the Jakarta military command spokesman, Lieut-Col Nachrowi, explaining he had no orders to break up the demonstration. [compare to Egypt, February 2011, MC]

   The students had co-operated with the soldiers, calling in Jakarta's military commander, BrigGen Silalahi, when key documents went missing after two intruders infiltrated the student body. [compare with Egypt]

   Meanwhile, events elsewhere were moving fast. The US Secretary of State, Mrs Madeleine Albright, suggested publicly that Gen Suharto quit, signalling the end of international support. President Suharto had found it impossible to put together a reform committee he had promised on Tuesday, as academics had shunned it. [History repeats itself. Compare Madeleine Albright's statements to those of to Hillary Clinton, M. C.] .... Gen Suharto had no alternative but to hand over power to his long-time crony, Mr Habibie, and seek an assurance from General Wiranto, another protege whom he put in place in January, that the family would retain its status and wealth.

   The decision was taken at one o'clock in the morning in the Suharto home. Its full implications did not dawn on the students until they listened to recordings of Gen Suharto's resignation statement.

   The euphoria quickly wore off. They had got rid of "the old thief" as an economics student put it, but Habibie "is just the same, another criminal". A middle-aged woman, who said she worked on the president's staff, remarked in disgust, "He was always bowing and kissing Suharto."

   The students had tasted a heady victory; they did not want to be deceived by a compromise which left Mr Suharto's allies in place. They had opened up the political landscape for genuine democratic reform, but they felt they must be active and vigilant and not let their gains slip away.

   Dr Amien Rais - an old friend of Mr Habibie - said yesterday he would wait to see the composition of the new cabinet, to be announced this morning, before deciding whether to endorse it; his advice will carry great weight with the students. But as of now they are staying put in the parliament.

   Throughout the day yesterday, more and more students arrived to share in the celebrations of an astonishing victory, the toppling of the longest-serving Asian leader. Small trucks cruised around with volunteers throwing out drinks and bags of rice donated by a wealthy sympathiser. Students danced and sang and took pictures of each other.

   In days to come they will all want to say they were there in the parliament, when the Javanese king, as Gen Suharto was known, was toppled." ( Conor O'Clery, The day the 'king of Java' was deposed by his own people,Irish Times, May 22, 2011).

The outcome of Suharto's demise was continuity. To this date, the military machine combined with a ruthless form of capitalist development prevails in Indonesia. The country is rich in natural resources. It is an oil producing economy. Yet poverty and unemployment are rampant. The country's wealth is appropriated by foreign conglomerates with the support of the military machine and police apparatus.

Both Suharto and Mubarak were America's henchmen recruited from the ranks of the military. They are disposable leaders.

When they are no longer needed, they are replaced. In the words Finian Cunningham in relation to Indonesia (1998), "the country's military machine continues to operate with brutal efficiency..."

Egypt: US Sponsored Coup d'Etat?

In Egypt, following Mubarak's demise, the military machine prevails. Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, Egypt?s defense minister, commander in chief of the Armed Forces and since February 11, 2011 head of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, is the de facto Head of State, the Vice presidency is held by Omar Suleiman. Both men are US appointees.

Tantawi has developed a longstanding relationship to the US military, at the highest levels, from the time when he was in command of allied forces during the Gulf war in 1991. Ahmed Shafik, a former commander in Chief of the Air Force occupies the position of Prime Minister.

The military not only has the mandate to implement democracy,  several opposition leaders including Mohammed Al Baradei have called upon the Egyptian population to support the military.

The US supported civil society opposition (which includes Kefaya, the April 6 Movement) is in liaison with both the military and the US embassy. They are reported to have "met with senior members of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces". "The protesters said the generals voiced their "sincere intention to preserve the gains of the revolution."" ( Egypt's opposition fights itself as army tightens control - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com, February 14, 2011)  

Sincere intention? Both Suleiman and Tantawi, now in charge of  "the transition to democracy" on behalf of the protest movement,  are Washington's new military henchmen. They were also responsible for carrying out torture on behalf of the CIA under the agency's "extraordinary rendition" program.
While one set of opposition figures battled itself, a group of seven young, middle-class democracy activists said that they had met with senior members of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. The protesters said the generals voiced their "sincere intention to preserve the gains of the revolution."



Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/14/2067022/egypts-opposition-fights-itself.html#ixzz1ECBNPOhF

   Egypt as being the most common destination for suspects that are sent by the U.S. for interrogation and ultimately torture.Extraordinary rendition is ... torture by proxy, sometimes, or outsourcing torture. Now, sometimes CIA agents actually come with them, and they're in the interrogation room. Most of the time, they're outside the interrogation room so that after the detainee is tortured, the CIA can come in and ask them questions.

   ....The United States sends Egypt $1.5 billion per year, most of which goes to the military. And yet all along the United States has known about these egregious human rights violations by the Egyptian government. We funded the whole government and the police who were committing the acts. Omar Suleiman, the vice president, was the linchpin for Egyptian torture when the CIA sent prisoners to Egypt in its extraordinary rendition program. And he actually committed some of the worst torture himself. He oversaw the torture by the secret police, and yet he's a very close friend of the U.S. government, including the Obama administration. (Marjorie Cohn,  Egypt was a common destination for torture of detainees sent by U.S, Global Research, February 16, 2010).


Note

1.On a personal note. It is through this 1998 article in the Irish Times on Indonesia that I first established contact with Finian Cunningham, who is now a regular contributor to Global Research. Michel Chossudovsky, Bandung, Indonesia, 15 February 2011]



Global Research Articles by Michel Chossudovsky

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#17

Peace

" O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah " .

Is this verse still relevant today considering the great majority of "Muslims" do not believe that there are "Prophets" after Ahmad / Muhammad ? I am not saying that the author of the Holy Qur'an abrogated this verse , but the deniers of prophets and messengers post Ahmad / Muhammad certainly did and do by their actions . Any comments please ?


Peace and Thank you all


almarh0m
#18
Peace all

This is the latest news on Iranian Presidential Election .

Poll results prompt Iran protests  


Protesters battled police and started fires, but their actions appeared not to be co-ordinated [Reuters]

Thousands of Iranians have taken to the streets of Tehran in protest against the outcome of the country's elections, in the biggest unrest since the 1979 revolution.

Riot police were deployed in the capital on Saturday after about 3,000 supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi, a reformist candidate, rioted following the announcement of his defeat by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the incumbent president.

The protests intensified following a televised speech by Ahmadinejad in which he said the vote had been "completely free" and the outcome was "a great victory" for Iran.

"Today, the people of Iran have inspired other nations and disappointed their ill-wishers," he said.

"This is a great victory at a time when the ... propaganda facilities outside Iran and sometimes inside Iran were totally mobilised against our people."

Ahmadinejad praised the country's youth, but made no direct mention of the protests.

'Running battles'

Al Jazeera's Teymoor Nabili, reporting from Tehran, said major streets in the north of the city had come to a standstill.

"Coming up the street there were running battles happening between riot police and students and there were refuse bins alight in the middle of the road," he said.

Iran election 2009


The Iranian political system
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In video:

Voters go to the polls
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Candidates court youth

"I saw riot police hitting students with sticks. I saw students - or young people - throwing stones at the riot police, trying to knock them off their motorcycles.

"But you didn't get a sense that there was any kind of organised movement in this."

Mohsen Khancharli, Tehran's deputy police chief, warned that his officers would "strongly confront" any gathering or rally held without permission.

"Police are not confronting people but only those who are disturbing public order or who make damage to public places," he told Iran's official IRNA news agency.

Fearing the protests might spread, authorities blocked access to some news websites and Facebook, the social networking site.

"Text messaging has been closed all day and now its very difficult to even get a mobile telephone line," our correspondent said.

Poll victory

Ahmadinejad was declared the winner by a wide margin in Friday's election, with figures from the interior ministry showing he had taken 62.63 per cent of the vote, while Mousavi garnered only 33.75 per cent.

The scale of Ahmadinejad's triumph upset widespread expectations that Mousavi might win the race.

But supporters of Ahmadinejad also took to the street following the announcement of his victory, waving Iranian flags and honking car horns in celebration of his winning a second, four-year term.

Mehran Kamrava, director of the centre for international and regional studies at Georgetown University's campus in Qatar, said that protests in northern Tehran were not necessarily an indication of a rigged ballot.

"The Western media has been talking to people in north Tehran, who tend to vote overwhelmingly against Ahmadinejad," he told Al Jazeera.

"But let's not forget that many of the urban Iranians have priorities and proclivities that are not necessarily reflected in other areas of the main cities, and those people could easily have voted for Ahmadinejad.

"Iranian politics have proved themselves to be notoriously unpredictable and this could be one of those instances of unpredictability."

'Provocative behaviour'

Mousavi said that members of his election headquarters had been beaten "with batons, wooden sticks and electrical rods".

He also appealed directly to Ayatollah Ali Khameini, Iran's supreme leader, to intervene and stop what he said were violations of the law.


Several people were injured in the protests, sparked by the election results [AFP]
But Khameini appeared unlikely to intervene, calling on defeated candidates and their supporters to avoid "provocative behaviour".

"The chosen and respected president is the president of all the Iranian nation and everyone, including yesterday's competitors, must unanimously support and help him," he said in a statement read on state television.

Earlier, Mousavi urged his supporters to avoid violence while acknowledging their right to be deeply hurt by the alleged violations in the election.

"I firmly call on you not to subject any individual or groups to hurt. Do not lose your calm and restraint," Mousavi said in a statement posted on his campaign website.

"Everybody should draw a line between themselves and any violent behaviour."

Iran's elections have seen allegations of vote rigging in the past.

During the 2005 election, when Ahmadinejad won the presidency, there were some allegations of fraud, but the claims were never investigated.

Iran does not allow international election monitors.

Source: Al Jazeera and agencies  

#19
Off-Topic / Looking for a "Tattoo Design" ...
June 13, 2009, 08:42:54 PM
Salam all

I am looking for a tattoo design of a "female warrior" modestly dressed with an AK47 in hand preferably with a red rose sticking out from the barrel of her gun . Any artist in the house ?

Cheers
#20
Peace


Could anyone please explain why 2:238 is understood and translated as about "Prayers/Middle Prayer" , particularly when preceding and subsequent verses deal with women , wives and divorce ? Why would god change subject for 2 verses in 2:238-239 then , abruptly revert to the subject immediately after up to verse 2:242 ?

I am asking this question as I am trying to make sense of 2:238-239 regarding "al salat al wusta" and its meanings .

Peace

almarh0m
#21
Sex game gone wrong? Actor David Carradine found dead in Bangkok
David Carradine.

Georgina Robinson
June 5, 2009 - 1:10PM
Thai police are reportedly investigating whether Kung Fu star David Carradine died during a sex game gone wrong.

The 72-year-old actor, who also starred in Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill films, was found hanging in a Bangkok hotel room wardrobe with a rope around his neck and other parts of his body.

Police first said his death was suicide because there was no evidence of a struggle in the room and no bruising on Carradine's body.


Kill Bill star found dead
Kill Bill and King Fu star David Carradine has been found dead in a hotel room in Thailand. For help or information visit beyondblue.org.au, or call Lifeline on 131114.
But there was also no suicide note, Britain's Daily Telegraph reported, leading an unnamed police officer to raise the possibility the actor's death could have been an attempt at auto-eroticism.

Carradine was in Thailand to shoot a film called Stretch. A spokesman for the film's producer also said the star's death "could be accidental".

A spokeswoman for Carradine's Los Angeles agents said the "circumstances surrounding his death are still unknown".

The actor left behind wife Annie Bierman and their three children. Family spokeswoman Julie Nathanson said the family was "devastated".

"There will be no further comment until more information can be confirmed," Ms Nathanson said.

Carradine's manager, Chuck Binder, paid tribute to the actor, telling the BBC: "He was full of life, always wanting to work ... a great person."

Carradine was the son of prominent actor John Carradine and part of an acting family that includes brothers Keith Carradine and Robert Carradine.

He was born on December 8, 1936, during Hollywood's "Golden Age'' of cinema, though he first entered showbusiness through musical theatre on New York's Broadway.

While best known for his role as the fugitive half-Chinese Shaolin monk Kwai Chang Caine in the 1970s TV drama Kung Fu, Carradine had a long a varied career in film.

He appeared in Martin Scorsese's Boxcar Bertha in 1972, and played legendary folk singer Woody Guthrie in the 1976 film Bound for Glory, which gained him a Golden Globe nomination.

The following year, director Ingmar Bergman called on Carradine to play a wandering out-of-work American Jew in poverty-struck Weimar Germany, for the movie The Serpent's Egg.

Swedish master Bergman was said to have entrusted Carradine to take the role for his commanding physical presence, recalling that of his father.

In the following two decades Carradine continued to work, but failed to find success outside of cult B-movies, as he was beset by the use of drugs and alcohol.

In the mid-1990s, he reprised the role as Kwai Chang Caine in Kung Fu: The Legend Continues, which found home on US TV for a further 60 episodes.

A huge fan of his B-movie work during the 1980s and 1990s, director Quentin Tarantino called on Carradine to play the title character in the 2002-2003 revenge-action-epic Kill Bill and Kill Bill II.

Carradine's work on the movies earned him a fourth Golden Globe Best Actor nomination.

Married five times, most recently in 2004, and the father of two daughters, Carradine was still working at the time of his death.

with AFP

* Support is available for anyone who may be distressed by calling SANE Helpline 1800 18 7263; Lifeline 131 114; Salvo Crisis Line - 9331 2000; beyondblue 1300 22 46 36.

#22
The Concert is long way off ,  yet the 'scalpels' bought most of the tickets " It is a long way to the shop , if you want a sausage roll " . :yes
#23
Can you believe this..............?????????



Malaysia ban on 'Allah' upheld 


Malaysia's ethnic minorities say their constitutional rights are being threatened [GALLO/GETTY]

The Catholic church in Malaysia has failed in a bid to suspend a government ban on the use of the word "Allah" in its weekly newsletter after the court rejected its application.

The high court ruling on Thursday effectively upheld the federal government's 2007 ban, which has become a symbol of religious tensions in the country.

The government directive bars non-Muslims from translating God as "Allah" in their literature, saying it would confuse Muslims in this plural, Muslim-majority country.

The Herald, which reports on Catholic community news in English, Malay, Tamil and Mandarin, tried to get the order suspended while waiting for a court decision on the ban's legality.

The court will hear the newspaper's original bid to review the administrative order on July 7.

'Status quo'

Lawrence Andrew, a Catholic priest and the editor of The Herald, told Al Jazeera they had asked to suspend the ministerial directive until the court rules on whether the ban is legal.

"Since the status quo remains we will not use the word "Allah" in our publication. In fact we have not been using it since our January edition."

"We'll wait for July when the court will hear the parties and decide on the matter once and for all"

S Selvarajah, lawyer for The Herald

The government had previously warned The Herald, which has a circulation of 12,000 limited to Catholics, that its permit could be revoked if it continued to use the word "Allah" for God in its Malay-language section.

The section is read mostly by indigenous tribes across the country who converted to Christianity decades ago.

In 2007, the government issued a warning over The Herald's use of the word "Allah", which officials had said could only be used to refer to the Muslim God.

Christian groups say the ban is unconstitutional, arguing that the word "Allah" predates Islam.

Print publications in Malaysia require a permit which is renewed every year, and is subject to conditions set by the government.

State laws

In multi-racial Malaysia, the government considers religion a sensitive matter and often classify related matters as a security issue.

S Selvarajah, a lawyer for The Herald, told Al Jazeera the court said about 10 Malaysian states had similar prohibitions on non-Muslims' use of the word "Allah".

He said the judge explained that suspending the ban "would tantamount to the court aiding the infringement of those provisions".

"But it [the ruling] has no real prejudice as such because The Herald, in compliance with the ban, had stopped using the word since January," he said.

"We'll wait for July when the court will hear the parties and decide on the matter once and for all."

About 60 per cent of the country's 27 million people are Muslim Malays, with one-third of them ethnic Chinese and Indians, and many who are Christians.

The minorities have often said their constitutional right to practice their religion freely has come under threat from the Malay Muslim-dominated government.

The government has repeatedly denied any discrimination against the country's ethnic minorities.

Source: Al Jazeera and agencies 

Peace

#24
Peace all

Was the Jinn created out of fire according to The Qur'an ? If the Jinn were created out of fire , then they should feel right at home in Hell . Is there a verse in the reading specific to the creation of the jinn ? I am asking this question as I just happened to be reading Qur'an surah 7:179 and I feel that I have to get some satisfactory explanation from the learned brothers and sisters here .

وَلَقَدْ ذَرَأْنَا لِجَهَنَّمَ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ الْجِنِّ وَالْإِنسِ ۖ لَهُمْ قُلُوبٌ لَّا يَفْقَهُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ أَعْيُنٌ لَّا يُبْصِرُونَ بِهَا وَلَهُمْ آذَانٌ لَّا يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا ۚ أُولَـٰئِكَ كَالْأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ ۚ أُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْغَافِلُونَ

" And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men; they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear; they are as cattle, nay, they are in worse errors; these are the heedless ones " ( 7:179 ) .

Any help from the forum is appreciated .

Peace

almarh0m
#25
Salamun alaykum

Recently I had an online discussion with some muslims about "abortion" , and I was told that The Indonesian Council of Ulama has given a ruling regarding the permissibilty of abortion in Islam . The Council 'allegedly' ruled that abortion is a Ok provided the pregnancy is is under 40 days old . I was shocked , as a lot of medical experts say that life begins at conception i.e when the ovum is fertilized by the sperm ( ? ) , so I showed them this verse :

وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْئًا كَبِيرًا

" And do not kill your children for fear of poverty; We give them sustenance and yourselves (too); surely to kill them is a great wrong " ( 17:31 ) .

Is this the relevant verse to use for a ruling on Abortion ? Please comment and add other verses if possible .

Thank you

almarh0m
#26
Salamun alykum

Could anyone help with the word for word translation of this ayat please ?

فِي مَقْعَدِ صِدْقٍ عِندَ مَلِيكٍ مُّقْتَدِرٍ

" Fī Maq`adi Şidqin `Inda Malīkin Muqtadirin "


Peace and thank you

almarh0m
#27
Salamun alaykum

        الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ عَلَىٰ عَبْدِهِ الْكِتَابَ وَلَمْ يَجْعَل لَّهُ عِوَجًا
       
        " All praise is due to Allah, Who revealed the Book to His servant and did not make in it any crookedness " ( 18:1 ) .

Before I start expressing my personal understanding of this ayat and the topic , let us see the verse in question in its arabic text and one of it's traditional translation , which in this case i'll be using 'Shakir's' .

مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَا أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمًا

" Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things " ( 33:40 ).

Let's also look at the 'key word Muhammad and Khatama from the root lists :

"Ha-Miim-Dal = To praise or eulogize or commend someone, speak well of someone, mention someone with approbation, approve of a thing, recompense/pay someone his due, to be praiseworthy or commendable" . and

" Kh-Ta-Miim = To seal/stamp/imprint/impress, to secure/protect oneself against a thing, produce an impression or effect upon a thing, reach the end of a thing, cover over a thing, turn away/avoid/shun someone or something, to not understand, prevent the heart from believing, feign heedlessness " .

If 'muhammad' means "praiseworthy" and 'Khatam' Seal/Stamp/Imprint ( these are the meanings that fits the context of the verse best )
, then the entire meaning of verse 33:40 will be far different and clearer than any existing translations can offer . Let's revisit the ayat again :
          "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men ( generic or gender ? )  but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last (Seal) of the prophets ( or prophethood ?) and Allah is cognizant of all things" .

After taking all of the above into consideration I arrived at this new translation ......

" The Praiseworthy is not the father of any of your men ( generic) but he is the messenger of god and the Seal/Stamp/Imprint of the prophets and god is cognizant of all things " .

One other compelling reason why I concluded that 33:40 cannot mean what the traditional translations say it means is this :

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتَ النَّبِيِّ إِلَّا أَن يُؤْذَنَ لَكُمْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامٍ غَيْرَ نَاظِرِينَ إِنَاهُ وَلَـٰكِنْ إِذَا دُعِيتُمْ فَادْخُلُوا فَإِذَا طَعِمْتُمْ فَانتَشِرُوا وَلَا مُسْتَأْنِسِينَ لِحَدِيثٍ ۚ إِنَّ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ كَانَ يُؤْذِي النَّبِيَّ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنكُمْ ۖ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِن وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ ۚ وَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَن تُؤْذُوا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَن تَنكِحُوا أَزْوَاجَهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ أَبَدًا ۚ إِنَّ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ كَانَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمًا

" O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah " ( 33:53 ) .

Unless , we take this particular ayat as valid only at the time of the messenger of The Qur'an , but not now , only then will the old translation stand . However , as logical people who serve God only and The Qur'an as the Guide and the Criterion , we cannot reasonably believe that this ayat is only valid at the time of the Messenger but is a Redundant verse now , besides , the verse begins with "O you who believe" and we all know that The Qur'an is valid for all time , and The Qur'an is far too important just to be addressed to the Messenger personally , otherwise god would not have included it in the reading .

Other reasons for this conclusion is that , there are verses in the Qur'an that says inter alia , God send messengers to every nations and tribes in their own languages as well as verses that says : God will not destroy a people before a messenger is sent to them or something to that effect ( please look them up yourselves , Thank you ) .

If you ask , what message would these prophets/messengers bring , the answer is obvious , The same message as The Qur'an , The Taurat and The Injeel and all other previous Message that God revealed to his servants . As we all know that The Words of God is perfect and complete and they cannot be changed and this apply equally to all god's message past or present .

* This is purely my personal understanding of the subject and of course I could be wrong , so please verify all information by yourselves , I can only pray that god guides me and all the believers especially the ones in FM .

Peace

almarh0m


#28
Salamun alaykum

As a hereditary muslim like most muslims in my home country , I cannot recall to this day ever having heard my Islamic Teachers or Imams and scholars in mosques during sermons in ramadhan or Jum'ah , quoting directly from the Qur'an about many things concerning 'what is Islam all about' and particularly about 6:151-153 as well as 3:18 among others . I find this very disturbing even today that these Imams/Mullah/Scholars seem to be hiding the "truth" from the people . Thank god , nowadays it is so easy for the sincere truth seekers to discover the truth for themselves directly from The Qur'an .

وَقَالُوا الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي هَدَانَا لِهَـٰذَا وَمَا كُنَّا لِنَهْتَدِيَ لَوْلَا أَنْ هَدَانَا اللَّهُ ۖ لَقَدْ جَاءَتْ رُسُلُ رَبِّنَا بِالْحَقِّ ۖ وَنُودُوا أَن تِلْكُمُ الْجَنَّةُ أُورِثْتُمُوهَا بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

" say: All praise is due to Allah Who guided us to this, and we would not have found the way had it not been that Allah had guided us; certainly the messengers of our Lord brought the truth; and it shall be cried out to them that this is the garden of which you are made heirs for what you did " ( 7:43 ) .

Let's see the commandments from god according to the Qur'an .......

قُلْ تَعَالَوْا أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ ۖ أَلَّا تُشْرِكُوا بِهِ شَيْئًا ۖ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُم مِّنْ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ ۖ وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ ۖ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بِالْحَقِّ ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ

" Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-- (remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them-- and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed, and do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except for the requirements of justice; this He has enjoined you with that you may understand " ( 6:151 ).

وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۖ وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ وَالْمِيزَانَ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ لَا نُكَلِّفُ نَفْسًا إِلَّا وُسْعَهَا ۖ وَإِذَا قُلْتُمْ فَاعْدِلُوا وَلَوْ كَانَ ذَا قُرْبَىٰ ۖ وَبِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ أَوْفُوا ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَذَكَّرُونَ

" And do not approach the property of the orphan except in the best manner until he attains his maturity, and give full measure and weight with justice-- We do not impose on any soul a duty except to the extent of its ability; and when you speak, then be just though it be (against) a relative, and fulfill Allah's covenant; this He has enjoined you with that you may be mindful " ( 6:152 ) .

وَأَنَّ هَـٰذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا السُّبُلَ فَتَفَرَّقَ بِكُمْ عَن سَبِيلِهِ ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

" And (know) that this is My path, the right one therefore follow it, and follow not (other) ways, for they will lead you away from His way; this He has enjoined you with that you may guard (against evil) " ( 6:153 ).

If those Imams/Scholars and Teachers knew about The Truth from god as I am sure they have studied the Qur'an in order to attain their qualifications to teach , why do they conceal these truths from the people ? Are they not afraid of waht god will do to them by concealing the truth from their people ? Or are they not aware of what god says regarding their action of concealment ?

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلْنَا مِنَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَىٰ مِن بَعْدِ مَا بَيَّنَّاهُ لِلنَّاسِ فِي الْكِتَابِ ۙ أُولَـٰئِكَ يَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَيَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّاعِنُونَ

" Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, these it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too) , ( 2:159 ) .

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَشْتَرُونَ بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۙ أُولَـٰئِكَ مَا يَأْكُلُونَ فِي بُطُونِهِمْ إِلَّا النَّارَ وَلَا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلَا يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

" Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement. (2:174 ) .

Surely The Imams , Muslim scholars and Teachers who often claim that they are " The Inheritors or Heirs " to the prophets and messengers ought to know all of these ? Or are they among those alluded to by 2:8 , 10:15 , 6:116 , 2:170 and 12:106 ?
What are your experiences in this matter and what are your thoughts ?

                      فِي مَقْعَدِ صِدْقٍ عِندَ مَلِيكٍ مُّقْتَدِرٍ

Peace

almarh0m
#29
Salam

I am just wondering whatever happened to the Indonesian FM running as *Allah Semata* or "God Alone" site . Now that there are more
'god alone' and al qur'an only muslims in Indonesia and Malaysia , don't you think the FM contents in Indonesian should be restored ?

Thanks

almarh0m
#30
Salamun alaykum

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ

"O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah with the care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslims" (3:102).

What is the more accurate translation of this ayat as per Lane's lexicon and root list meanings ? It just seems at odd with some other verse that indicates that being a 'muslim' preceded being a 'believer' , but I cannot recall the verse number precisely . If you can share your personal understanding as well would be great . Thanks a lot .

Peace

almarh0m