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Peace all.

As many of us have and probably currently are, I'm trying to research the salat issue. What makes most sense to me is to take it to mean commitment/link/bond in the sense that we uphold the commitments of the system day and night through various avenues (as laid out in the Qur'an) so that we may purify ourselves and grow (zakat). It is not taken to mean "prayer" as in the traditional sense, which is what "dua" is supposed to denote. This is what makes most sense to me at the moment.

I still have some questions, however. I want to make sure my interpretation is in line with the Qur'an. With that said, I want to ask those of you who think salat merely means commitment/link/bond to give a consistent interpretation of 4:101-102. I'm anxious to see what you all think:

4:101-102: Wa-itha darabtum fee al-ardi falaysa AAalaykum junahun an taqsuroo mina alssalati in khiftum an yaftinakumu allatheena kafaroo inna alkafireena kanoo lakum AAaduwwan mubeenan Wa-itha kunta feehim faaqamta lahumu alssalata faltaqum ta-ifatun minhum maAAaka walya/khuthoo aslihatahum fa-itha sajadoo falyakoonoo min wara-ikum walta/ti ta-ifatun okhra lam yusalloo falyusalloo maAAaka walya/khuthoo hithrahum waaslihatahum wadda allatheena kafaroo law taghfuloona AAan aslihatikum waamtiAAatikum fayameeloona AAalaykum maylatan wahidatan wala junaha AAalaykum in kana bikum athan min matarin aw kuntum marda an tadaAAoo aslihatakum wakhuthoo hithrakum inna Allaha aAAadda lilkafireena AAathaban muheenan

4:101-102: And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy. And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.

It does seem like these verses are in line with "prayer."

Peace all.

I'm sure some of you have read Khalifa's ideas about the Heavenly Feud. It goes into a lot of detail and explains our purpose here on Earth, among other things.

Although he did use Qur'anic verses for justification, a lot of details were clearly not based entirely on the Qur'an.

As such, I'd like to discuss the account to see what parts of it make sense Qur'anically, what parts cannot be right, what parts must be right, etc. Just a basic analysis of the article. I do think it is an interesting account and I think the issue does deserve further study.

Here's the article I'm talking about: http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/appendices/introduction.html

And please, let's not let this devolve into a thread about Khalifa himself, Submitters, Code 19, etc. We are merely discussing an article about the Qur'an and its merits, or lack thereof.

Peace all.

Note: The end of the article does talk about Code 19. For the purposes of this thread, please only discuss the Heavenly Feud account in the article and ignore the other stuff.

Peace all.

Khalifa's translation: Do not marry idolatresses unless they believe; a believing woman is better than an idolatress, even if you like her. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage to idolatrous men, unless they believe. A believing man is better than an idolater, even if you like him. These invite to Hell, while GOD invites to Paradise and forgiveness, as He wills. He clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may take heed.


FreeMinds translation: And do not marry the females who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if she attracts you. And do not marry the males who set up partners until they believe. For a believing servant is better than one who sets up partners even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while God is inviting to Paradise and forgiveness by His leave. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.

Pickthalls translation: Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.

Shakir's translation: And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.

Transliteration: Wala tankihoo almushrikati hatta yu/minna walaamatun mu/minatun khayrun min mushrikatin walaw aAAjabatkum wala tunkihoo almushrikeena hatta yu/minoo walaAAabdun mu/minun khayrun min mushrikin walaw aAAjabakum ola-ika yadAAoona ila alnnari waAllahu yadAAoo ila aljannati waalmaghfirati bi-ithnihi wayubayyinu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yatathakkaroona

I wanted to discuss this verse for two reasons.

1. It seems like traditionalist translators interpreted the verse to refer to female and male "slaves" (meaning, actual people in bondage) as being better than the mushrikeen. Newer translations define it more as "servants" (meaning, believing servants of the One God, not necessarily those in earthly bondage). What are your thoughts on this? Is there any reason to interpret it as one way over another? And how does all that relate to 4:25?

2. What does this verse mean in terms of actual marriage? It is clear that one cannot marry a mushrik. It is also clear that, for example, most Christians of today who call Jesus God or Son of God are mushrikeen. So that makes sense. But we run into two issues:

a) 5:5 tells us we may marry the chaste believers as well as the chaste women from among the followers of the previous scripture (People of the Book). So there is definitely a distinction made between chaste believers and chaste women among the followers of the previous scripture. My question is, who are these chaste women among the followers of the previous scripture? Does it refer to "Christians" who don't ascribe any divinity to Jesus, like some Unitarians today? I want to know, as a practical result of this verse, who we are and are not allowed to marry.

b) On a related note, who are the believers that we can marry? Does a believer have to believe in the Qur'an? Or even in the existence of the Last Day/Angels/Messengers? What if one simply believes in the existence of one God and that's about it? Is that person a "believer" as per the Qur'an? Can we marry such people?

Peace.

This book I was reading referred to the inheritance laws where the share of a man is the same as a share of two women. The author was saying that that injunction only applied in certain historical conditions, i.e. when the man is the sole bread-winner. He said once a certain society ceases to be that way, when men and women are bread-winners, then the injunction no longer applies to that society. What do you guys think? Any Qur'anic basis for that explanation? Here's the quote I read by the way:


"In the matter of inheritance laws, the two portions given to men is a rule stipulated in the light of historical conditions. These historical conditions refer the times and places when and where men assume the role of bread-winners, thus deserving of two portions: one for the family and one for himself. But when this condition changes and women become equal and assume an equal role for the family, the rule also changes, as provided for by this general rule:

'The men get a share of what parents and relatives leave. The women too shall get a share of what parents and relatives leave. Whether it is small or large, a definite share.' "

First, I'd appreciate it if anyone has a good article about shirk/kufr and what they entail.

I decided to make this thread after receiving some illuminating posts in another thread I made: http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5249&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

In that thread, claurianta brought up a point about one dying in a state of shirk doesn't necessarily mean going to Hell.

I think this is a very important issue. Is shirk different from other sins (e.g. hoarding money) only by degree or is it categorically different? What about kufr?

If one dies in a state of shirk, does one automatically go to Hell according to the Qur'an, or is it merely examined as one of any number of sins. What about a state of kufr?

I always interpreted the Qur'an to say that if one dies in state of shirk, one was going to Hell. Now I'm not so sure.

The main verse I always thought of was:

4:48 "GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense."

Peace.

I don't know if I can explain it well but I'm sure some of you have experienced it.

Those of us who follow the Quran only obviously feel that this is the correct way of living. But I can't help but think sometimes about just how the vast majority seemingly disobey what God commands, specifically to worship Him and Him alone.

I don't think I am better than these people or that I judge them or anything like that. I pray to God myself to keep me on the straight path. But I cant help but feel this feeling of being in an extreme minority of people. And, to be honest, I don't like the feeling. I guess it bothers me that so many people are going against God and I just have to wonder why. Is salvation really reserved for a very, very small minority of all humanity?

I'm not sure I have a question. All I can say is many thoughts rush through my head when thinking about this issue. I ask myself, why must the majority of people be this way? It doesnt seem "fair" that so many are destined for Hell, for lack of a better way of saying it. But I do believe God is Just and knows better than I do.

I dont know what the point of this thread is really except to ask if you guys have had similar thoughts. Peace.