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Messages - KDC501

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1
Prophecies of the Quran / Re: DABA = AI
« on: December 30, 2019, 01:50:49 PM »
Peace...
Why brother  Layth's concern cannot be possible.. After all AI is a computer.. Do you agree? We know RK brought it saying it is computers that is meant by the verse 27:82 and not natural creature.. . But only with the advent of latest technology Layth used the word AI...  I hope..
If computers in general is Okay for you for the verse 27:82 then why not AI? Would you pls explain why?  Both human intelligence only produced.. Human made it and programmed but it doesn't mean that it can't go beyond human capacity.. Human programmed it but isn't computers faster and more precise than human...do we trust computers nowadays or human? Ponder... It can go on its own... That's AI...
For example God created human.. But didn't human deny God.. Just coz God created doesn't mean human cannot deny Him.. he can deny ... Same way.. Human created/programmed AI but it can deny human by being on its own...

God says it speaks and we human seems to be trusting in it while it exposes... So.. It seems human trust that creature better than human.. Coz that's seems special and better than human in general.. Hope you got me...

TI.. Lol.. Artificial intelligence is not fake...  AI better accepted than human nowadays.. Lol
Peace,

The 'AI' that we have today I wouldn't describe them as AI's but rather cleverly designed programs to give the appearance of intelligence. AI's like Google, Alexa, Siri, and Cortana, these AI's have no real intelligence. All responses and tasks are programmed. For example, if the user asks for a specific task to be done, based on the conditions programmed to handle such requests, the AI will execute accordingly. This is not intelligence. When programmers or engineers use the term AI to describe such programs/software they're being disingenuous. Not one program ever designed by man has any real intelligence. These systems that they describe as having AI are just for marketing purposes.

The creature described in Sura 27:82 can be described as a computer because anything that has been made by earthly materials and can 'speak' must be mechanical in nature. Please note that the verse never stated that the 'creature' had real intelligence. But rather it allowed human beings to see God's signs. That's all.

Regards,

Kevin

2
Prophecies of the Quran / Re: DABA = AI
« on: December 30, 2019, 08:21:16 AM »
Peace,

If what you mean is TI (True Intelligence) and not AI (Artificial Intelligence) then I agree.

There's no such terminology called TI in engineering. There is Strong AI or True AI.  These are the engineering terminologies. Based on what Layth was proposing he was suggesting a True AI which is impossible to design since we don't have a blueprint to mimic its design. Most of what is engineered today are inspired by nature. If you don't know or fully understand the mechanics of consciousness how can any programmer or engineer even begin to design a True AI?

If you're in agreement that we cannot create a True AI then a regular AI which would be pre-programmed by humans beings isn't true intelligence. So, therefore, how can we use an AI as the meaning of the verses Sura 27:82?

The best interpretation of this verse is the computer. The computer is made of earthly materials and computes millions of calculations and handles multiple processes at amazing speeds. Sura 50 was the first sura that was imported into the computer that calculated the frequency of the letter Q(Qaf) as a multiple of 19. As a programmer and a strong proponent of code 19, I prefer this interpretation. Why?  A creature made of earthly materials could be easily be interpreted as a machine or a better yet a computer. Do machines/computers speak? Yeah, they do. They compute tasks and give readings to human beings through terminals and User Interfaces.

Regards,

Kevin

3
Prophecies of the Quran / Re: DABA = AI
« on: December 29, 2019, 09:15:04 PM »
Salam,

I was reading 27:82 and have come to a slightly simplistic understanding.

We always read the verse in full sentence - thinking that the DABA will speak to the people informing them that they are unaware of God’s signs. However, there is another way to read it:

“And when the word has fallen upon them, We will produce for them a creature of the Earth that will speak to them. The people are unaware of Our signs”

This simple verse split changes the creature from one that converses about God - to one that simply speaks. This is Artificial Intelligence in its basic form and not a complicated prophet creature.

It's an interesting theory but I can tell as a computer programmer and developer that AI is impossible. And I will go as far as to say that even if the human race existed for all eternity we may never reach the ability to produce a true AI. Human beings will never be able to design an AI because

- You cannot program what you do not know or fully understand. When a programmer programs he needs to have a blueprint. What are the mechanics of consciousness? What are all the processes that occur to make a being fully conscious? Science does not have a proper answer to any of the above questions. Therefore if science doesn't have the answer to this question how would a programmer know where to start and how to build a true AI without a blueprint of consciousness.
- Even if by some miracle we discover all of the processes and mechanics of consciousness that does not entail we will have the ability to create its likeness
- For you to develop a true AI you need a highly advanced programming language. None of the programming languages we have can make a true AI because all of the programming languages that exist will only allow you to create programs that are programmed by programmers. Everything is under the control of the programmer. A true AI must be developed by a programming language that can live, breathe and evolve. This capability I'm of a firm belief is completely beyond our reach and scope as human beings.

Regards,

Kevin




4
General Issues / Questions / Re: Fearing God/Hell
« on: December 28, 2019, 07:42:53 AM »
Rahma I think you need to read the Quran more carefully.  Even if we are bought back to repeat life again, those who are destined for hell will end up in the same predicament over and over and over again for eternity. The people who end up in hell are the worse of God's creation. And they deserve to be in hell for that which they have done.

Those who know God fear him but love him and his greatness and compassion. The fear that you're talking about is that of a wild beast in the jungle who can overpower you and rip you apart. This is not who God is. God Almighty grants us mercy and blessings on a daily basis. And for those who suffer and strive in his cause, who die as children, those who live lives where they had no ability to overcome their predicament and die living miserable lives he will grant them mercy , everlasting life and paradise eternal. This is the God that I and those who have knowledge of the Quran know of.

5
Archeology & History / Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« on: January 08, 2014, 01:55:23 PM »
Peace,

I would not be so sure that Cyrus the Great was a Pagan.

God bless you
Ok I stand corrected. MAYBE he was a pagan and MAYBE he wasn't a pagan. I don't have much knowledge in Zoroastrian religion so I don't know. One thing I do know is that he was indeed a great king and he allowed people to follow there own religion. He was the responsible for the FIRST DOCUMENTED human rights charter that :

" I ordered that no one is permitted to abuse anybody or to damage the cities. I ordered that no house should be damaged and no one?s property should be violated and ransacked. I ordered that everybody should keep to his/her belief system and be free to worship his/her own God. I ordered that all the people should be free in their thoughts, choosing the place of their residence and no one should violate the rights of others."

Now here is the problem. The term "Two horned One" comes from Deuteronomy Chapter 33 This is again for the 100th time a JEWISH TERM FOR MESSIAH BEN JOSEPH. This is one of the many prophecies in the Bible that prophesied about "The Two Horned One"

Messiah Ben Joseph is the messiah that comes from the tribe of Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" comes from  Deuteronomy Chapter 33 in the Bible in which Moses before his death told the "future of the tribes of Israel "

In this chapter Moses says:

"13 About Joseph he said:

?May the Lord bless his land
    with the precious dew from heaven above
    and with the deep waters that lie below;
14 with the best the sun brings forth
    and the finest the moon can yield;
15 with the choicest gifts of the ancient mountains
    and the fruitfulness of the everlasting hills;
16 with the best gifts of the earth and its fullness
    and the favor of him who dwelt in the burning bush.
Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
    on the brow of the prince among[e] his brothers.
17 In majesty he is like a firstborn bull;
    his horns are the horns of a wild ox.
With them he will gore the nations,
    even those at the ends of the earth.
Such are the ten thousands of Ephraim;
    such are the thousands of Manasseh.?


The key phrase that coined the nickname "Two Horned One" is " In majesty he is like a firstborn bull; his horns are the horns of a wild ox. With them he will gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth. "


Cyrus could not have fulfilled this prophecy. Why?? Because if this prophecy were to be fulfilled in the PAST (not that it has been fulfilled but if it WERE to take place in the past ) he must have been a Jew or descendant of the Children of Israel.
The person know as Zulqurnain in the Quran is Messiah Ben Joseph that the Jews know about. It is stated that he would be military WORLD leader , rebuild the temple, and be a great politician and even carry out wars "to the ends of the earth" What Jew TODAY would think that he was Messiah Ben Joseph( The Two Horned One) ???

When Muhammad was asked this question he was asked by the Jews. There are NO living Jews today...ZERO that would say Cyrus the Great was "Two Horned One" or Messiah Ben Joseph ( The Zulquarnain) .

Peace,

Kevin

6
Archeology & History / Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« on: January 08, 2014, 12:25:38 PM »
Correction, Dzul-Qarnayn (The one with two horn) was never being stated as a 'prophet'.

And you're correct on the rest of your description. The background might goes like this:
- Muhammad claim that 'his words' was actually the word of an angel named Gabriel.
- The Jewish rabbis would like to see some confirmation that it was actually "Gabriel"
- He seek out where Gabriel are being mentioned on his scripture and it appears on the book Daniel.
- He test it out to see whether Muhammad can answer who is the "Ram with two horn" as mentioned in Daniel.

The book of Daniel contain a prophecy about the rising of (back then) future empire symbolized by the Two horn ram which shall be destroyed by one horn goat and then the horn of the goat shall be broken to 4 pieces. (Daniel 8)
Two horn ram (Dzul-Qarnayn) = Persian Empire / Cyrus
One horn goat = Macedonian Empire / Alexander
Broken to 4 pieces = Macedonian Empire broken to 4 smaller kingdom after the death of Alexander

During the time of Quran those prophecies has already been fulfilled. and the deed of Cyrus was highly regarded by the Jews up until today. In the book of Isaiah he was mentioned as a "Christ" (Hebrew: Messiach)
Cyrus Persian Kingdom was among the earliest kingdom in the recorded history who has no "official state religion" a.k.a "Secularism".

More on the person here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

And here's on the "Wall Of Dzul-Qarnayn".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Wall_of_Gorgan

Cyrus the great was a pagan. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be "The Two Horned One".
From the Quran we see that the Two horned One had a close relationship with God. Cyrus was a PAGAN. He neither Alexander the Great fit the persona of the 'Two Horned One'.

Again the  "Two Horned One" is Messiah Ben Joseph. The term "Two Horned One" is a AN OLD TERM that the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL know about.



7
Archeology & History / Re: Who is Zul-Qarnain? (Sura 18:83 -99)
« on: January 04, 2014, 10:29:29 AM »
2:79 Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what God has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.


Verse 2:79 shows that some of the old scripture have indeed been tampered with. This can be easily shown by the number of CONTRADICTIONS that can be found in the Bible.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

These contradiction show that the Bible has been tampered with and should not be taken too seriously since there is no way of knowing where and what episodes could be real and what are fabricated.

Yes in the Quran it does say that the scriptures of old were divine

5:44 We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in God's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the disbelievers.

5:46 Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

5:47 The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked.

5:48 Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had God willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To God is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

3:3 He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
God explains to us that every time a new scripture got revealed, the majority of people who claimed to be believers plunged deeper into transgression and disbelief.


BUT the problem lies in what is needs to be taken OUT of the scriptures and what needs to be rejected. It is naive to believe that God is saying everything in the old scriptures are to be used. This cannot be because of the number of contradictions that lie in the Bible and the number of false teachings.

Now the issue of the Book of Enoch.

I have read some passages from the Book of Enoch and I have found them to be very fantastic tales with angels mating with women and making gaints also things about Enoch's visions etc. This I will NOT believe.   Also the Book of Enoch was written many years after the Torah o_O How then can anyone take this book seriously???


Also the Quran did NOT make mention of the Book of Enoch

19:56 And recall in the Scripture Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

The verse never mentioned anything about THE Book of Enoch. It merely states that Enoch  is mentioned in the old scriptures this does not necessarily mean that scripture is THE Book of Enoch. It could also mean the Book of Genesis in which Enoch was also mentioned.

THERE IS NO MENTION IN THE QURAN OF "THE BOOK OF ENOCH" but simply a refrence to the fact that Enoch was in the old scriptures.

I, being a christian in the past know more about the Book of Revelations than perhaps most of the people here on this forum. The Book of Revelations was written by John one of the alleged  disciples of Jesus NOT JOHN THE BAPTIST (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) . This would be stupid to believe since it is commonly known in history that John the Baptist(Son of Zacharia in the Quran) died before Jesus was put to death. So how then can John the Baptist (Son of Zacharia in the Quran) create a book with mentioning Christ in it??

The Book of Revelation is simply a book made by christian fanatics to make sense of some of the prophecies that Jesus didn't fullfil.
Jesus may have been A messiah but he was not THE Messiah that the Jews wanted. The Jews were looking for a Messiah that would be a military leader, and have power on earth. Jesus did not fulfill any of these prophecies. So the Christians that idolize Jesus created a book to make sense of some of the prophecies from even the old scriptures.

Another thing that should be noted is that The Book of Revelations when it was written could have been used as a means of comfort. The christians during that time expected the world to end VERY SOON and Jesus to come back and fulfill his role as the Messiah of the old scriptures.
The book made reference to episodes that occured during the time when Jesus was LONG dead and Nero was the new Emperor of Rome. The number 666 (mentioned in The Book Of Revelations) according to most christian scholars is a code message for Nero Caesar : http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html
What should also be noted is that this book according to biblical scholars surfaced in public during the time when Nero Caesar was Emperor!!! John (Son of Zacharia Also known as John the BAPTIST) died BEFORE Jesus during the time when Emperor Tiberius was ruler of Rome!!  This LOOOONG before Nero sat on the throne!!!

The Book of Revelations cannot be a used as reading or taken seriously. Also the Quran said that Gospels have truth in them. The Book of Revelation is NOT A GOSPEL. And even if RK used this as a reference that does mean he was correct. RK was still LEARNING the Quran and his deen. Many of the things he said could have been wrong! Don't blindly follow things you have no knowledge of.

Peace,

Kevin

8
Submitters / Code 19 / Re: Terms & Conditions of The Covenant
« on: January 04, 2014, 12:00:25 AM »
I found nothing clear from your explanation that the DEAD PROPHETS can believe and support the confirmation by specific person existed thousands of years in their future.

This is crazy and idolism !

The truth . . .

The actual translation is Allah take covenant "THROUGH" the Prophets . . . not "FROM" the Prophets

and . . .

and . . . the performance of covenant

Blah Blah Blah yeah suuuuuuuuuuure it's crazy and idol worship mr.RashadKhalifa is the last messenger.

RS if he were alive today he would  be sooo pissed off right now about the state of the submitters.
Most of these submitters today are an embarrassment to Islam.

9
Submitters / Code 19 / Re: Terms & Conditions of The Covenant
« on: January 03, 2014, 11:49:01 PM »
According to your Quran . . . Allah said "Rashad Khalifa's  confirmations" !

        - specific person
        - specific subject matter

Therefore, Rashad Khalifa must be existed before the performance of the contract can be fulfilled by the Prophets.

However, these Prophets have died thousands of years before Rashad Khalifa was born.

I have already given you clear explanation . Believe what you want to believe. I only worry about the people on this forum that would blindly follow some of the nonsense that you have posted. For those who are reading study hard and read the Quran careful and use your logic.

Do no do what this member has done. He has made Rashad Khalifa his God .




10
Submitters / Code 19 / Re: Terms & Conditions of The Covenant
« on: January 03, 2014, 11:42:16 PM »
How can they perform thousand years before Rashad Khalifa was born, and when the covenant are asking them to "support" and to "believe" . .  "Rashad Khalifa's confirmations", ie. specific person. This is crazy !  :rotfl:

What is crazy is you expecting the prophets to be alive to support RS when they were already dead.
The prophets supported RS by doing their jobs.

If Muhammad had not compiled the Quran there would be NO CODE for RS to find to further prove the divinity of the scripture
If the prophets didn't write their scripture there would be no scripture to holistically show the consolidation of the message.

They supported a messenger that had not exist in there own time. What is crazy about that??

How is that different from God asking Muhammad to compile the Quran to support the believers during his time and hundreds of years in the future???

Brother it is you who needs to take the time to think.




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