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salaam + brother Layth

I always meant to apologise to you, for mocking your article, in support of Pazuzu  on: November 13, 2011, 02:10:25 PM ? and http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603137.msg288476#msg288476
I must say I was so impressed with you for putting up with my posts. I sometimes get too cocky. This is a flaw in me that I'm working to eliminate.  You were gentle in your reply and never threatened to ban me, since then you have gained all my respect. That is why you see farida often praising you.
Once again, brother Layth you have all my respect.

farida

= farida 

[6. Deen]

Salam all
6. Deen

The system of God
"Indeed! the number of the months with God is twelve months by God's ordinance in the day that He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred: that is the right Deen (9:36 )

The system of a country,sociality with his special law
" Then he (Joseph) began the search with their bags before his brother's bag, then he produced it from his brother's bag. Thus did We contrive for Joseph. He could not have taken his brother according to the king's Deen unless God willed"(12:76 )

The system of pharao
"Pharaoh said: "Leave me to slay Moses; and let him call on his Lord! What I fear is less he should change your Deen, or less he should cause mischief to appear in the land!"(40.26)

The system of God. It is always the same - Islam
"The same Deen has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah and that which We have sent by inspiration to thee and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions in it: to those who worship other things than God, hard is the (way) to which you call them. God chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn".(42.13 )

All creatures are submitters

Thank you for reading and i wait your thoughts!
Salam

Salaam
Thank you for writing such a brilliant piece of work. We really appreicated reading it as our Friday 'sermon', and for the first time I was able to grasp the story of Joseph and his brothers , as it used to bother me; why would Yousef plant a fake evidence to hold his brother. By reading is as a not man made system I realised that we in our system would see it not as a straight forward way to detain his brother. But as we read the story of Khadir we read of all sorts of mysterious acts which eventully had a reason( God acts in mysterios ways)
Whereas in his manmade system: Pharaoh was so worried that Moses would change his deen. This sounds like the American presidents nowadays advocating and preaching democracy and the rule of law, which looks good on the surface but delivers nothing except illusion (sorcery).
One more thing you called your husband a jew; is it because he follows hadith or Talmud? 
Salaam and Jezakh'allahu kheir

Peace,

The believers are not outsiders for me. I would help them financially as well. I only gave the example of a brother and other relatives, because I wanted to show you how I liken the believers to be like my own flesh and blood. Actually, the believers mean more to me than my flesh and blood (they do not believe, by the way).

Still, I refuse to share my husband, as a method in which to prove how much I love and care for my believing family (Ummah). I have the right to live a monogamous lifestyle given that's the way in which I function best. There is nothing in the Quran that compels me to share my marriage with others. I have the right to monogamy and to be respected for it.

This has nothing to do with era or time period. This has to do with respecting the rights of those women who wish to remain monogamous. These things should be discussed prior to marriage and a mutual decision should be met by the engaged couple. A marriage contract with these stipulations would make it ever the more clear.  It doesn't make sense to betray that decision at a later time as the contract would be legally binding.

There is no "but" for those who see the whole Ummah as their family and its not easy  to live that kind of lifestyle in this day and age where  Rich Arabs who practice it and splash their money around, without a second thought for the rest of the world who share their values.
As for Released point that these nikkah have to take place at the same time so there is no first of second wife is something to think aobut.
Salaam

Peace,

Also, what's a marriage without love and romance? We're human beings after all.

What marriage in Islam is, is another discussion and what is romance in Islam and what is sex in Islam again are separate discussions. I can understand your anger at the thought of sharing your husband, but I honestly believe these ayat were intended for a situation like the we currently have in Iraq for instance an.
Salaam

[mutual]

Peace,

Well, I think the entire Ummah can be like family, but that does mean that you have to marry everyone in the Ummah. I help my brother out with his finances and help my cousins out with their studies. If they need a place stay for a little while, then they are welcome in my home. These gestures we show toward family do not need to extend themselves on a sexual or romantic level.

I think it's an abuse to compel a woman to accept a polygamous lifestyle. We're all unique individuals, and have our own preferences as to what kind of life we wish to lead. The majority of women I have come across cringe at the idea of sharing their husband. I can't help but admit that it would feel hurtful and degrading. The love and tranquility that we are supposed to possess would not exist if I were ever confronted with such a situation. I think that husbands and wives need to make a mutual decision in this regard. The Quran is not explicit on every matter. God wants us to use our brains in working some things out. Is in the spirit of the Quran to coerce, compel, or guilt a woman into accepting her husband's decision to marry and begin sexual relations with another woman?

Salaam
What's  so great about helping your brother or sister? They are related to you and siblings have a  natural inclination to help each other as they shared the same womb. Besides relatives have a right over each other; I was talking about "the outsiders" who happen to share your values and are needy. 
We people of this era see marrige and romance as the individual's right whereas, earlier, there were people who rose above such limited boundaries. So these ayat, IMO, are not directed at us   who cringe at the thought of polygamy, and that is why no one who embraces todays life style should try to apply polygamy to themselves. You have the example of rich Arabs who practice it and splash their money around, without a second thought for the rest of the world who share their values.

Peace IMHO,


Do you think that men are allowed to help the vulnerable women through the act of marriage, without first seeking the permission or consent of his initial wife(s). I believe this to be a decision that a family should together, no? What is the initial wife (s) is/are not happy with the prospect of having a co-wife, splitting up the inheritance further, or being in a relationship where sex is not monogamous?

Salaam
As we can read in the Qur'an there is no requirement to seek permission from initial wife, you talk about family above I think these verses are directed towards those who see the whole communty as their family and they must take care of Yateem as Qur'an emphesises rights of Yateem upon us. In those situations the first wife too would reccognise those right if she too see the whole Ummah as her family.
As I understand these ayat are not for familes like your and mine who have husband and wife a house and a car and they live like one unit and the rest are outsiders.

Peace


Okay, so you are you saying is that the Quran isn't only referring to "mothers of orphaned children"? You mean to say that the Quran may also be referring to unmarried women, for any reason at all?

I don't understand this because the verses seem to revolve primarily around the welfare of the orphans. Can you break it down a little further for me?

I am always reluctant to impose m;y understanding on others as I feel we all have to study the Qur'an to understand it but no I do not beleive that the Ayat, where polygamy is discussed refers to mothers of orphans. To my understanding it's about those vULnerable women who have no where to go and need care. If one can not give them the care expected from a God fearing person then marry them so they can enjoy a wife's status.
A single woman can be as vulnerable as a widowed or divorced one in a society where women have no rights. The ayat are not asking to take them as mamalkat aymanhu, marriage in mentioned here, for whic concent is a requirement where a woman is of age when she can understand importance of her finance /Mahr  as we clearly understand that unage yatama have to wait till they reach age of understanding/concent 4:6
Salaam

lol, thanks, now all I need are contributors....

Salaam
Qur;an is not restricted by dictionaries, one has to understand the concept and ""Yatama" as I understand are vulnerable person who need support, financially or othewise and in case of underage vurnable/yatame who have no one to care for them you give them their weatlh as they reach age where they are able to look after their affairs.
Simpls

[supposed]

Salam...

That is not the oldest manuscript found. The man only claims so.

The oldest copy, to date, are the Sana'a manuscripts found in 1972. A team of German scientists restored the parchments and estimated their date to be around 700 -720 A.D  (less than 100 years after the supposed date of Muhammad's death).

Please look cup "Sana'a Manuscripts".

Peace...

Salaam Pazuzu
Thank you for your reply I will google Sana'a Manuscripts
Best regards