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Messages - Abdul-Hadi

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1
Introduce Yourself / Re: Peace and greetings!
« on: August 29, 2017, 04:57:56 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

@person_of_the_book:  :welcome:

It is true that there are different perspectives. Consider the best of what is being said...

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

This being said...

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, and eyesight, and mind - all these you are responsible for.

The comment regarding people telling others who will burn in hell reminded me of a physics argument...

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm

 :sun:

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

2
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

People of the Book is used to refer to other monotheistic systems/religions, that is, other than islam (which is really a deen and not a religion). The Almighty has sent down Guidance to all nations...and many nations have adulterated the Guidance. It should be obvious that we should in no way uphold the additions of people.

Examples follow:

Does the Almighty teach falsehood?

Rabbits chewing cud, bats are birds, etc...

Does the Almighty change Guidance throughout time?

Shellfish are expressly allowed in the Qur'an and expressly disallowed in Old Testament.

The KJV of the Bible even inserts verses, including one referring to a trinity that is not found before.

https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2010/08/23/why-does-the-king-james-bible-have-some-different-verses-than-modern-translations/

I can't uphold what is known to be false, and I can't in good conscience tell anyone else to uphold it either.

I don't deny that the core of the Books is good...but the Books have had additions and bad translations twist them beyond what was sent down. Even the Qur'an has had its share of bad translations. Then hadith and Concordances and canon and Sunnah and Catechisms and traditions all bog the entire thing down even more. It takes some effort to separate what is real from what is fantasy, and to accept it all without critical analysis will essentially mean that garbage in equals garbage out.

Different people have different traditions and different laws. There is no compulsion in the deen, and we are not to dispute over rites. It is entirely okay for other people to judge where they have power according to their traditions, rites, and laws.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

3
Introduce Yourself / Re: Introduction
« on: August 25, 2017, 08:19:07 AM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

@Bertice: Wa-Alaikum-Salaam  :welcome:

Don't be dismayed if you have some hardship; it is only a test and we are blessed to be tested. Although this is online, we are also a community that stretches across the world. There is ISA knowledge and fellowship to be had here. Did you lurk for a while before creating an account?

There's lots of good stuff in the articles on the main page. Of course, don't take things at face value--verify meanings and listen to the best of what is being said.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,
and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
and give you peace.


May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

4
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 07:24:36 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

Ima delve off topic here for a sec.

"Fantastic logic [not really]. Alcohol can be used in drugs for medical purposes, and that is there it can be of use. Wine mentioned in 47:15 does not share the same root as intoxicants in other verses. Saying something is of "legitimate use" when it is clearly called a sin [2:219] and that you shall stay away from it [5:90] gives you probably two options:"

Looks like the same root to me!

2:219 They ask you about l-khamri and gambling. Say: "In them is much sin, and a benefit for the people; but their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much they are to give, say: "The excess." It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

5:90   O you who believe, l-khamru, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are made foul by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.

5:91   The devil only wants to cause strife between you through l-khamri  and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the Communion. Will you be deterred?

12:36 And with him in the prison entered two young men. One of them said: "I dreamt that I was pressing khamran," and the other said: "I dreamt that I was carrying bread on top of my head, and that the birds were eating from it." "Tell us its interpretation, for we see that you are of the good doers."

12:41 "My fellow inmates, one of you will be serving khamran for his lord, while the other will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head. The matter which you have sought is now concluded."

24:31 And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and maintain their chastity; and they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent. And they should put forth their bikhumurihinna over their cleavage, and they should not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to by their oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And they should not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.

47:15 Is the example of Paradise; that the righteous have been promised with rivers of pure water, and rivers of milk whose taste does not change, and rivers of khamrin that are delicious for the drinkers, and rivers of strained honey, and for them in it are all kinds of fruits, and a forgiveness from their Lord; like that of those who abide in the Fire, and are given to drink boiling water that cuts-up their intestines?


Same roots for these ayat too!

4:43 O you who believe, do not come near the Communion while you are sukārā , until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless a wayfarer, until you wash. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.

15:15 They would have said: "Our sight has been sukkirat . No, we are a people being bewitched!"

15:72 By your life, they are in their sakratihim , blundering.

16:67 And from the fruits of the palm trees and the grapes you make sakaran , as well as good provisions. In that is a sign for a people who comprehend.

22:2   The moment you see it, every nursing mother will leave her suckling child, and every pregnant one will miscarry, and you will see the people sukārā while they are not bisukārā, but the retribution of God is most severe.

50:19 And the sakratu of death came with truth: "This is what you have been trying to avoid!"


The original point was that the both the Old Testament and the New Testament clearly allow alcohol. Appealing to an older scripture for support in one thing (homosexual acts are sinful) while denying it in other things (alcohol, shellfish, glaring scientific fallacies) is base hypocrisy. I hate it when ~other~ people are hypocrites!  :)

In any case, if alcohol and intoxicants and intoxication are really a topic of interest, we can resurrect one of the old threads or start another new thread to discuss it.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

5
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 06:20:42 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

That is why (one of the reasons) Quran alone movements are so isolated from the rest of Islam and the opponents of Quran aloner's may employ such examples to criticize people following Quran only. And in such cases unfortunately they would be right. There are people that say if it does not explicitly prohibit anything, then it is perfectly all right, despite the fact that the concepts of lewdness and sexual purity are in fact explicitly described in the Quran and that is to stay away from lewdness [and repent if you did] and follow sexual purity (except with your spouses who cannot be of same sex) [23:1-11]. Not to mention all Abrahamic Scriptures including Tanakh prohibit sexual acts between men. Looking for examples in nature is like watching Mars rover as it has anything to do with our own society.

So according to their narrow logic since extasy is not a consumable mentioned in the Quran, why not take one, two, or two and half and go PARTAY!. Funny to see threads here like "sex before marriage is not prohibited prove me wrong" and this thread. I'd personally ignore such approaches.

Truth is not a popularity contest. It is better to be just in our dealings and truthful in our nature than to chase the phantoms of what others suppose to be the truth. If isolation from "mainstream" is a trial, then that is actually a blessing of sorts. 

When you look at older scriptures, in the very same Book that talks about homosexual acts being an abomination, it talks about shellfish being an abomination, classifies bats as birds, says that rabbits chew cud (they don't), and a host of other things. It is difficult to take it seriously, and AQ clarifies what is actually restricted. Judaism is the first known religion that prohibited homosexual acts. If one wants to practice Judaism instead of the deen, well...good luck with that!  :)

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Leviticus 11 New International Version (NIV)

6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you.

9 “‘Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you.

13 “‘These are the birds you are to regard as unclean and not eat because they are unclean: the eagle,[a] the vulture, the black vulture, 14 the red kite, any kind of black kite, 15 any kind of raven, 16 the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, 18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, 19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.

Leviticus 18 New International Version (NIV)

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.


Regarding intoxicants, MDMA has some legitimate uses. Intoxicants are not prohibited, but we are warned that they are among the tools of Satan, and that we should avoid Satan if we are to be successful. The example of Paradise mentions rivers of intoxicants.

7:32 Say: "Who has made forbidden the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

Water can be an intoxicant too...but that doesn't mean that water needs to be avoided/prohibited. It is the intoxication that we need to pay caution to, not the intoxicant. In the New Testament, Jesus (peace upon all prophets) turned water into wine.

John 2 New International Version (NIV)

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.


Here is another example:

Deuteronomy 14:26 New International Version (NIV)

Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.


What I'm saying is that basically you'll get confused if you mix Scriptures. Many things are allowed in the deen that are prohibited in Judaism (such as shellfish), and there are things that are allowed in Judaism that mainstream Muslims eschew (such as alcohol).

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

6
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 05:03:52 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

My comments in red.

Yeah thats what people who reject ayahs about a town being destroyed because people committed crimes like homosexuality say.

To state that it doesn't matter what "that" word means is an emotional and non-logical statement. Of course it matters what is said, if it is to be taken as an example or as an instruction!


It is clearly cherry picking to take one part and ignore the rest. You claim that it doesn't matter to you what a word means, and it is that word that is key to understanding what Lot (peace upon all prophets) is talking about. I've presented evidences that the word CAN'T mean homosexual acts. You stick to the part about men approaching men.

No, you guys keep ignoring the part about men approaching men instead of women..cause you have no explanation what else it could mean.


My explanation is that the people were acting lustful and it is the lust and not the target of the lust that was the problem being addressed. It isn't acceptable for men to chase women lustfully, and neither is it acceptable for men to chase men lustfully. That it was men being approached is a minor detail.

Okay, so did Lot (peace upon all prophets) make a mistake, or is the Qur'an in error when it says that the people of Lot did something not seen before in any of the worlds? If neither of these are correct, please elaborate on how the MAIN ISSUE at hand is homosexuality. I feel sorry about the women and children among the people of Lot that had to die because they bore the burden of other people's homosexual acts. The position that the people of Lot were destroyed for homosexual acts is emotional and unsupported by either logic or reason. I don't claim that there were no homosexual acts, it seems obvious that there were. But to seize upon a detail and claim that it is the primary cause of woe is unfounded.


Quran isnt wrong and I never said homosexuality was the main reason the town was destroyed but it was one of the crimes committed. Cant deny that.


Lust was the crime--approaching others out of lust.

Marriage exists in the Qur'an, and the word used is not exclusive to the opposite gender. Computers don't exist in the Qur'an either, yet we are both typing on them. Modern medicine doesn't exist in the Qur'an either--do you likewise eschew that? Instructions exist in the Qur'an to not be oppressive to others, and to be just to others even if you dislike them, let me know how that works. For me, but not for thee? Doesn't exactly sound impartial or fair, does it?

Marriage between a man and a woman exists. There is only a list of females a man can marry.


So, the part about permitted is beyond this is to be ignored, because it doesn't fit your agenda?

Not supporting gay marriage isnt oppression. We're told to enjoin what is good and forbid evil.


<rhetorical question> Who is your partner that you have taken that has told you that same sex marriage is evil? If you don't like it, don't do it!  :) It is unjust to allow things for one person under the color of law or religion and deny them to another person. We are instructed to be just to ALL people, not just those that we like or agree with.

5:8 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

7
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 04:41:58 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

So you're saying same sex marriages are allowed. You're spreading evil. Can you answer these questions:
1. In male-male "marriage", who is going to be emancipated?
2. In male-male "marriage", who is going to receive the dowry?
3. In female-female "marriage", who is going to be emancipated and who is going to receive the dowry?

Beyond this category (category=emancipated women)=Women not emancipated. It even says "to be emancipated, not for illicit sex"...Do you follow desire, are you homosexual? You've been defending this immorality in every topic regarding homosexuality.

I say that same sex marriages are not prohibited. I say that same sex marriages are CLEARLY beyond the other stated categories. As to spreading evil, even IF homosexuality were an immorality (not demonstrated), it is not a disease that spreads. Nobody but nobody is gonna "catch the ghey" by reading these posts. If you are gonna claim that I am spreading evil, I am gonna claim that you are engaging in and perpetuating ignorance and hate AND not following clear Guidance. Homosexual acts have not been shown to be illicit sex, and from a biological perspective it is debatable if such acts even constitute sex.

(1) Emancipated? Were they slaves? If old enough to marry, the marrying parties are also old enough to be considered independent.
(2) That is to be worked out between the participants. 
(3) See the above answers; same same.

Sexuality is a private matter. If the facts present a problem to your point of view, consider changing your point of view. Present your evidences and not ad hominem arguments, and let the intelligent consider what is the best of what is being said.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

8
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 02:13:56 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

Guуs, what about people who have no gender? R theу allowed to marrу someone?

There is nothing prohibiting it. Also see 4:24 and look at the part that talks about what is permitted "beyond this category." If it isn't prohibited, it is allowed.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

9
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 01:28:16 PM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

My comments in red

Doesn't really matter what that word means. Men approaching men instead of women = homosexual acts

To state that it doesn't matter what "that" word means is an emotional and non-logical statement. Of course it matters what is said, if it is to be taken as an example or as an instruction!

How can a person uphold what they have no knowledge of? 17:36  :!

Okay, so did Lot (peace upon all prophets) make a mistake, or is the Qur'an in error when it says that the people of Lot did something not seen before in any of the worlds? If neither of these are correct, please elaborate on how the MAIN ISSUE at hand is homosexuality. I feel sorry about the women and children among the people of Lot that had to die because they bore the burden of other people's homosexual acts. The position that the people of Lot were destroyed for homosexual acts is emotional and unsupported by either logic or reason. I don't claim that there were no homosexual acts, it seems obvious that there were. But to seize upon a detail and claim that it is the primary cause of woe is unfounded.

 
Gay marriage doesnt exist in the Quran lemme know how that works.

Marriage exists in the Qur'an, and the word used is not exclusive to the opposite gender. Computers don't exist in the Qur'an either, yet we are both typing on them. Modern medicine doesn't exist in the Qur'an either--do you likewise eschew that? Instructions exist in the Qur'an to not be oppressive to others, and to be just to others even if you dislike them, let me know how that works. For me, but not for thee? Doesn't exactly sound impartial or fair, does it?

Nobody's saying to interfere with other peoples lives. Those who reject clear ayahs and interpret the Quran how they want to justify their immoral behavior will be held accountable.

If you prevent someone from marrying, you are definitely interfering with other people's lives. Those who reject clear evidences, follow what they found their fathers doing, follow the majority of others on earth, and forbid what is not disallowed will also reap everything that they deserve--more so if they oppress others and are unjust. ALLAH does not require our intercession for those that are homosexual. Use your "outrage" to address and remedy some real problems in the world, if you can. When a person points a finger at another person, they point four fingers back at themself.

By the way, regarding marriage:

4:24 And the emancipated from the women-except those committed to by your oath-is God's decree over you. And it is permitted for you to seek beyond this category that you employ your wealth, to be emancipated, not for illicit sex. So, for those of them you find pleasing, then you shall give them their dowries as an obligation; and there is no sin upon you for what you agree on after the obligation. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

Same sex marriages are beyond this category.  :sun:

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

10
Off-Topic / Re: Homosexuality is NOT normal or right
« on: August 22, 2017, 12:42:11 AM »
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:


Prophet Lot was not speaking without authority when he told them theyre transgressing
26:161   For their brother Lot said to them: "Will you not be righteous?"
26:162   "I am to you a trustworthy messenger."
26:163   "So be aware of God and obey me."
26:164   "And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds."
26:165   "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26:166   "And leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."
26:167   They said: "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
26:168   He said: "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"
Then what is??

29:29 "You approach the males, and you sever the way, and you bring all vice into your place." But the only response from his people was to say: "Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!"

There are several vices mentioned, but it seems likely that the people of Lot (peace upon all prophets) were punished for tempting the Almighty.

2:134 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.
2:141 That is a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did.


The above ayat reference Abraham and other Patriarchs. Abraham was of the time of Lot; Abraham was Lot's uncle and they even traveled together. Abraham was made aware of the impending destruction of the people of Lot.

11:74 So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot.

There is a command not to forbid what is not prohibited--is it necessary to reference this? Was the Almighty ashamed to tell us "Homosexual acts are bad, don't do them?" That can be found in hadith maybe, but it sure isn't in AQ. Maybe the topic is so "icky" that it had to be approached in a subtle way?  :nope:

There are things that we can learn from the example of the people of Lot. Using it to justify bias isn't one of those things. Don't worry, nobody is gonna "catch the ghey" by not interfering with the lives of other consenting adults.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

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