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Messages - Zidane

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1
General Issues / Questions / Re: Israel
« on: January 21, 2012, 06:40:51 AM »
Greetings of peace and blessings,

Just a view - As for now - I find it quite logical: Jerusalem article: http://www.free-minds.org/where-was-mohammed - Jerusalem - "holy"/original in being the place where Abraham pioneered in this line of prophets and scriptures/revelations and the place where a few prophets came to call for the "hajj" = announcement/delivery of the scripture/revelation to the people, etc.

As for the "kingdom of israel" (Solomon's kingdom - not Jerusalem as he sends winds all the way to Jerusalem/holy_land, etc) article: http://free-minds.org/kingdom-israel -  I find the article very informative in many parts - like the theory about the progeny Abraham left = Lot's family - to do do his "salat"/bond/duty - that is to deliver the message of God Alone to his people/town. However, as for now, I wouldn't agree so much about the "sout saudi" location of it - Maybe it would rather be the city "Nablus" like someone said about the "Samaritan" view.

Anyway, although how interesting this topic might be (many also find it very logical about the Jerusalem theory throughout the quran) we must remember that these history finding are not the true duty/bond/salat to us - One God and do good - as per various moral commands throughout the Quran - like be good to parents - speak truthfully - choose good responses - be fair and true, etc....


2
I got sent this link by my angsty atheist teen friend with just a "More proof that your God doesn't exist!" in the subject box.  ::)

May God guide her/him. AFAIK, God would guide those who sincerely search the truth rather than ego/arrogant defenders of some idea.  :bravo:


3
Obviously not quite bright enough to figure that the Law of Physics is a creation of God and not of theoretical physicists. 

 :bravo:

4
Introduce Yourself / Re: From Malaysia: Still searching but here?s my story?
« on: September 02, 2010, 07:20:11 PM »
Peace,

Nice to see more God Alone people in countries near me (I am from the Tom Yam Gung country and I like Mee Goreng).  

:bravo:

Glory to God. We are nothing without Thee - O Lord Creator of the Heavens and the Earth and all that's in it and all beyond it - Glory to Thee O Lord. Limitless Is Thy Glory. Thank YOU - O Lord - Thank YOU. IT IS YOU ALONE WHO CREATE - YOU ALONE WE GLORIFY - GLORY BE TO GOD ALONE.


5
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

That parapgraph makes no sense to me, even self-contradicting: "Because there is a law such as gravity" ...... "the universe can and will create itself from nothing" - BUT "NOTHING" MEANS "THERE IS NOT".

Emptiness can't create anything.

If there were ever a time when there was nothing,
There would still be nothing.
"Nothing" cannot produce "something".

(quote from http://www.jovialatheist.com/thomslaw.html)

Peace.

6
Quranic Divinity / Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« on: September 02, 2010, 04:24:28 PM »
peace Zidane, all,

I find the following analogy very helpful:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598901.0


Say "Indeed, I do not possess for you harm nor right-guidance."
[72:21]

Peace bro Wakas,

Great analogy in that link and thanks for the verse too. Maybe that's why God didn't preserve the hadith books.

Peace,
Zidane

 

7
Hadith Discussions / Re: An analogy for "obey God and obey the messenger"
« on: September 02, 2010, 04:22:37 PM »

At a swimming pool or beach, if there is a sign that says "Please obey the lifeguard at all times." then it is directly referring to the person's role as a lifeguard and nothing else. Let's say the lifeguard's name happened to be Fred, imagine the difference in meaning if the sign said "Obey Fred at all times". We can all see that this is a totally different message! It is no coincidence that every swimming pool or beach in the entire world* does not use a sign that refers to the person's name rather than their role, as they know it would be nonsense.

* none that I have seen or heard of at least.


Peace bro Wakas,

Beautiful analogy! Thanks. Matches the situation clearly. Maybe that's why God didn't preserve the hadiths.

Peace,
Zidane


8
Quranic Divinity / Re: Quran alone interpreted according to whom?
« on: August 31, 2010, 03:18:58 PM »
Greetings of peace and blessings,


People are commanded, throughout the Qur'aan, to FOLLOW Allah and Messenger. Is it possible?


Please be patient and sincere in your research - in the past I was understanding like you too.

It is possible.

Obey God and Obey the Messenger

(http://www.scribd.com/doc/17476247/How-to-Obey-God-and-the-Messenger-according-to-Quran)

After I verified that there is a God, and then I verified that this Quran is from God. Then, here's a summary of what I currently understand from the Quran about this issue:

- ?The Prophet? and ?Messenger? are two different words - not the same meaning. The Messenger is the state that the prophet is speaking God's message - perfectly - so God said Obey the Messenger. Now, see 66:1 - why does God use the word prophet there? Because that's what the prophet did, not the Messenger.

Now, the prophet is not here with us but the huge amount of contradicting "narrations" are ,

45:6  These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative after God and His revelations do they believe?

Even if he was with us - we had to use reason to understand, verify and choose to follow him if what he says goes with reason/logic and the natural laws of God we see in Nature - not because people call him a prophet or Muhammad - we need to be sincere/truthful to ourselves and God - far from just blindly following whatever's written in a book with its title "hadith". Even for a book with its title "Quran" - we still have to use logic to verify/understand a/our current interpretation/understanding of sets of verses logically with reason to be sincere. It's like when you study math, science - you don't just blindly believe it because the title of the book - you have to verify/understand then choose to accept logically.

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for. - that is - be sincere in what you choose to do - not because we're inclined to it some way or got them from ancestors.

- Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is the same thing [Quran 4:80]. We can only know what God says from the Messenger and the Messenger can only speak what God says ([Quran 69:40-46], [Quran 4:150] ). - God preserved His message [Quran 15:9]. Now, what does He say about "hadith"? See 77:50, 7:185, 31:6, 45:6, 39:23, 52:34, 68:44 - see the arabic word "Hadith" in these verses. - The duty of the Messenger is ONLY to clearly deliver the Message [Quran 5:92], [Quran 16:81-82],
[Quran 29:18], [Quran 64:12], [Quran 24:54]. How to obey him? Obey what he ONLY does (only
delivers the Message). He warns with the Quran whomever it reaches (it reached us also) [Quran 6:19].
He reminds with the Quran to those who revere God?s promise [Quran 50:45].

- Therefore, the duty of explaining the Quran is NOT for the Messenger, it's for God. [Quran 75:19] Some people might come to say "but the prophet said..." this and that - Can you sincerely verify that he said it? This one said that one said... So it's true? I want to worship God, not a man. I respect good men, but not worship/obey them. Who do you want to Worship? God?
- Then you should obey Him.

How to Obey God?
- Obey what he tells you.

How does he tell you?
- Through his Messenger.

Therefore, 4:80Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed God; and whoever turns away, We have not
sent you as a guardian over them.

Therefore, "Obey God and obey the Messenger" = Obey God through his Messenger's Message.
NOT "Obey God and obey the hadith books about prophet Muhammad".


By the way, there's so much you can find in the hadith books, everything you might want, probably the
book referred here:
(See 6:114, also.)


68:36What is wrong with you, how do you judge?

68:37 Or do you have another book which you study?

68:38 In it, you can find what you wish?


The Quran is complete/fully detailed. But for some (many), it doesn't have what they like to see in it, so they go and see the Hadith books, they'll find just about anything they want - even though contradicting - they choose what they wish.

May God guide & forgive.

May God Guide

9
Peace Bro Zidane,

Here are my notes:

17:1 Glory be to the One who took His servant by night from al maSJD al haram / the sanctified/restricted implemented SJD to al maSJD al aqsa / the farthest/remote implemented SJD which We have blessed its surroundings that We may show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Listener, the Seer.
17:2 And We gave Moses the Scripture and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel: "Choose no guardian besides Me."

If understood traditionally as a journey to Al Masjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem by prophet Muhammad, it should be noted that it was not built at the time, thus has been explained away as referring to the area/site. Similarly, it is also debatable whether the traditional Al Masjid Al Haram was built at this time, or if it was it was in a rudimentary stage. However, it is clear from the verse itself the reason for this journey is to be shown some of God's signs/ayatin, implying receiving of revelation. It just so happens that the next verse, connected with "wa", discusses giving Moses the scripture. Further, it could be said "the farthest implemented SJD" would most likely be in the presence of God, and this domain is blessed, therfore seems to allude to the process involved in receiving revelation. It is also in the singular throughout.
It could thus be interpreted as: the journey of one's heart/mind/consciousness (possibly at night in one's dream or night vigil) from their present instituting of the acknowledgment or actioning of God's decrees (recall that this can be one's focus/qibla) to the farthest representation of this, i.e. in the presence of God resulting in realisation/receipt of divine guidance.

Also see 17:90-93 showing Muhammad cannot literally ascend into the heavens.

Interestingly, the traditional story does bear some similarities to the Quranic version, i.e. receiving of divine revelation/guidance, being in the "presence" of God/angels, Moses is present.

NB: angels~controllers, forces in control of certain functions/laws.



Peace and Thanks Bro Wakas - very interesting - this looks promising to make clear many verses - I'll try to study them again accordingly.

Peace and Blessings,
Zidane

10
Dear Wakas, Ayman,

Great article and explanation summarizing the terms - I hope it becomes a page summarizing them on WikiPedia or some other God Alone wiki one day.

Thanks again for your contribution in this area - especially your Salat = Bond articles - yes, "Bond" solve the equations of "Salat" context very well.

18:21 And like that We made known about them that they might know that God's promise is true and that the Hour there is no doubt in it. When they disputed amongst themselves about their issue, so said: "Build over/upon them a building". Their Lord knows best about them. Those who prevailed on their issue said: "Surely we will take* (to ourselves) over/upon them a maSJD."
*verb form 8, reflexive.

Interestingly, almost all translators seemingly neglect certain aspects of this verse:
Firstly, they imply a physical building was built (worse still, a Mosque) over them (i.e. their graves), as some sort of shrine in their memory, which is completely against the message of The Quran (i.e. no saint/human reverence).
Secondly, it clearly states there is a dispute and some said "build a building over/upon them" yet it later says those who prevailed said "Surely we will take (to ourselves) a maSJD over/upon them" clearly implying there must be a significant difference between each side's argument. If traditionally understood, the only difference is one argues for a building, the other argues for a Mosque.
Thirdly, the former expression uses "build a building..." and the latter uses "take (to ourselves) a maSJD...", as if they were both about building why not use the same word? Not to mention "take to ourselves (a building)" doesn't quite make sense.
Lastly, it implies the ones who prevailed had it right, so we must ask ourselves what is the message of this verse? Well, clearly for the people in question God gave them a sign in this story. After this lesson, they disputed, some said "build a building over them" and in-between the other side's argument it says 'Their Lord knows best about them' (also mentioned in subsequent verses), implying their number or who they were is not the point, thus no need for a building, and it is the outcome/lesson of the story that is important, hence it says those who prevailed said "Surely, we will take (to ourselves) an implemented acknowledgement/submission over/upon them". It should be noted that Asad makes a reasonable interpretation of the term "over/upon them" as "in their memory", thus those who prevailed got the point and took to themselves an implemented acknowledgement/submission in their memory, i.e. they took a lesson from God in their memory.
Also, in 18:22 it says "do not dispute about them except with an argument obvious/apparent", and since The Quran does not clarify their number which seems to be the main dispute, the primary obvious/apparent argument is the lesson of their story, and this is what people should be reminded of. As a minor point, it can also be said that building a Mosque upon them may only serve to revere them and the lesson less so. If so little is known, perhaps a building was not built.
As a side note it is alleged Al Masjid Al Haram in Mecca encloses the grave sites of Ishmael and Hagar.

Excellent - thanks so much. I and my fellow God alone thinker also pondered on this a few times in the past - realizing that it should not mean a building since it is already proposed to  "build a building over them" - this maSJD seems to solve it well too.

By the way, brother Wakas,Ayman please help summarize your own interpretations of maSJD al aqsa and about its "journey" from the maSJD al haram again in related verses - or add it to the list.

Peace,
Zidane


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