Messages

Salam to all,

Sultan Zeshan kicked me out of a WhatsApp group because I objected that homosexuality is not promoted in the Quran as he was promoting it.

Salam to all,

I would love to see someone having a go at Jaysmith on the Quran. People from this forum.

God bless ally

He naively ignores what forensic linguistics is while building up his basic argument and stance.

Salam Mazhar why don't you do a rebuttal

Since your expertise in linguistics forensics as say

God bless all

Hey worthless centi50
Before knowing Mutashabihath verses, first, clear your doubts about Muhkamath verses. You can't obtain an MBA before elementary school.
just trusting any fools on the internet leaving aside Al Quran.

Salam you are the last person I would lisen to. You foul mouth everyone here. So am not communicating with you


God bless

Salam Bro BH,

He contends that MHMD is known in the Old Testament and New Testament to be not Muhammad of Islam

Salam to all,

What do you guys say about this. What possible can be the refutation

Summary of the video


https://youtu.be/-uMw65vRrUs


The etymology and meaning of the name Muhammad
The name Muhammad has a Christian root, meaning "bless," but in Arabic, it has a different implication, with the name having four consonants (mimim) and originally no vowels in the 7th century
04:28.


The earliest manuscripts of the Quran are only consonantal texts, with 16 letters and no dots, which were added later to change the meaning of words
06:50.


The name Muhammad, when written without vowels, is left with the four consonants "mhmd," which would be pronounced as "Mamed" or "Memed" in English, rather than the commonly used "Muhammad"
07:12.



Discussion on the historical basis of Islamic characters and Muhammad's identity
The question of Muhammad's identity and the historical basis of Islamic characters is a topic of discussion, with some arguing that these characters have no historical antecedence
06:02.


A conference, the Tower conference, is mentioned, where the speaker will be discussing the topic of Muhammad's identity and the facts surrounding it
05:16.


The speaker's grandfather had mentioned that Islam is not based on real characters and that the name Muhammad has a Christian root, which the speaker had forgotten until reminded by the current conversation
04:17.


The speaker is excited to discuss the topic of Muhammad's identity and the facts surrounding it, which they believe are remarkable and hard to walk away from
05:40.



The meaning and origins of "Mahmed" in different languages and its connection to the Messiah
The word "Mahmed" is mentioned 11 times in the Old Testament in Hebrew, with the same four letters used in Arabic, Syriac, and Aramaic, meaning "the praised one" or "the worthy of praise"
07:51.


The word "Mahmed" is found in the Ugaritic language, dating back to 1400 BC, and is also mentioned in the Song of Solomon 5:16, referring to someone who is "altogether lovely"
08:18.


In the 4th century, St. Ambrose referred to the "Mahmed" as the anointed one, the Messiah, who was yet to come, while Christians were waiting for the Messiah to return, and his name is Jesus Christ
08:45.


The "Mahmed" was always associated with the Messiah, and by the 7th century, it was believed that the Mahmed would be the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ
09:21.



Muawiyah's Christian affiliation and the evidence from coins and inscriptions
Muawiyah, the first Caliph, issued a coin in 663 with his image, holding a cross and with a cross above his head, indicating that he was a Trinitarian Christian
09:33.


The inscription on the dam of Th, written in Greek, refers to Muawiyah as the leader of the Believers, with a cross in the upper left-hand corner, further indicating that he was a Christian
10:41.


There is no evidence of a person named Muhammad or Muhmed in the south, but there are many references to "Mmads" in coins and inscriptions, suggesting that the name "Muhammad" may not have existed at that time
10:12.


A coin from around 30 years after Muhammad's death features three crosses on the front and the letter M, which is worth 40, on the back, along with the letters "mimim" and "dog," which are believed to refer to "Mahmed Y Jesus Christ"
11:03.


The coin was minted during the rule of Muawiya, a Christian who was in power from 660 to 680, and the inscriptions on the coin reflect his anti-trinitarian Christian beliefs
11:28.



Abd al-Malik's anti-trinitarian beliefs and the inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock
Abd al-Malik, who succeeded Muawiya, was also an anti-trinitarian Christian and built the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, which features inscriptions attacking the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Trinity
12:03.


The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock, which date back to the 7th century, include phrases such as "Say not three, for God is one and he has no son" and "God does not beget nor is he begotten," which are similar to verses in the Quran
12:28.


The inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock are believed to be an attack on Byzantine Christianity and trinitarianism, and the reference to "the praised one" is thought to refer to Jesus Christ, not Muhammad
12:54.



The pronunciation of "Muhammad" and its possible connection to Jesus Christ
In some Islamic prayers, the name "Muhammad" is pronounced in a way that is similar to the way it was pronounced in the 7th century, and some common Islamic names, such as Mahmud, are derived from the same structure as the name "Muhammad"
13:36.


The idea that the name "Muhammad" may actually refer to Jesus Christ, rather than the prophet of Islam, is seen as a possible explanation for the defensive and offensive nature of some Islamic apologetics, which often focus on criticizing Christianity
14:27.



The nature of Islamic apologetics and its focus on criticizing Christianity
Many Muslims do not understand the foundations of their own religion and instead focus on attacking Christianity, which may be due to the fact that Islam is based on a series of lies twisted from the original scriptures
14:55.


The creation of Islam can be seen as another lie of the enemy to pervert the truth of the word of God, and it should be considered a cult of Christianity rather than a world religion
15:48.



The creation of Islam as a cult of Christianity and John of Damascus's writings on the Ishmaelites
John of Damascus wrote a book called "The Christian Heresy" in which he discussed the heresy of the Ishmaelites, who were the Arabs that controlled the Umayyad Empire
16:07.


The Ishmaelites did not have a prophet or a revelation, unlike the Jews and Christians who had both, and they controlled a vast amount of land from Spain to India
16:56.


The Umayyad Empire was in contention with the Byzantine Empire, which was a trinitarian Christian power, and the trinitarians were waiting for the Messiah to reappear
17:21.



The Umayyad Empire's conflict with the Byzantine Empire and the introduction of the Shahada
The antitrinitarians, led by Abd al-Malik, built the Dome of the Rock in 691, which featured inscriptions without dots or vowels, and introduced the Shahada as an attack against the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity
17:57.


The Shahada was also introduced on coins by Abd al-Malik, and John of Damascus wrote "The Heresy of the Ishmaelites" in response to the growing threat of Islam
18:14.



Muhammad's identity and its connection to the concept of "mahmad"
Muhammad's identity is tied to the concept of the "mahmad," a prophetic figure expected by the people of Abraham, and this is why Muslims claim that Muhammad is the fulfillment of this expectation
18:59.


The name "Muhammad" is in contradistinction to "mmed," with the latter referring to the anointed one, and the former referring to a prophet
19:09.



The concept of "jah" and its evolution
The concept of "jah" originally referred to a state of ignorance in one's own heart, but it was later reformed to refer to a people called "jahia"
19:29.



The composition of the Quran and its borrowing from other sources
The Quran is composed of stories and writings borrowed from Jewish fables, apocryphal writings, lectionaries, homilies, and hymns to Jesus Christ, with the name "Jesus Christ" replaced by "Nabi" and "Ras"
19:55.



The development of Muhammad's biography and the later documentation of Islamic saints
The backstory of Muhammad's biography took 70 years to create, and it was first written down by Ibn Hisham in 833
20:22.


The saints of Islam were not written down until 40 years after Muhammad's biography was established
20:32.



The lack of early biographical sources for Muhammad and the origins of the Hadith
There is no biography of Muhammad from the 9th century, and the Hadith from Sahih Muslim, Ibn Majah, or Sahih Bukhari do not exist from that time period
20:40.


The origins of these documents are now known, and they do not come from the 9th century, but this information will be discussed at a later

Salam bro Shukri,

Did you try to contact those two disbelievers Al Fadi and Jay Smith? Instead of people fighting here, they should be fighting Al Fadi and Jay Smith to show how wrong they are in the Quran.

I have some books it was written by Pazuzu. It discusses



## "Arabia: The Untold Story": A Summary

This book aims to challenge widely accepted historical narratives, particularly those concerning the geographical locations of events described in the Quran and the Bible. The central argument is that a significant historical distortion has occurred, largely due to the influence of the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, which the authors argue contains deliberate mistranslations and fabrications to advance political agendas.

**Key Claims:**

* **Egypt Was Never Called "Miṣr" by Arabs:** The sources assert that during the time of Prophet Muhammad (P) and the early period of Islamic expansion, the Arabs knew Egypt as "al-Qibt," derived from the Greek and Roman names for the region. "Miṣr," according to the sources, was initially the name of the Arab military encampment near the Roman fort of Babylon in the Nile Delta. This camp evolved into the city of al-Fusṭāṭ and, as its prominence grew, the name "Miṣr" came to be associated with it. However, a later misinterpretation mistakenly applied this name to the entire country, creating confusion and obscuring the original name "al-Qibt."

* **"Pharaoh" Is Not an Ancient Egyptian Title:** The authors challenge the widely held belief that "Pharaoh" was a title used to designate the rulers of Ancient Egypt. They point to the lack of any archaeological evidence to support this claim.  Inscriptions, papyrus documents, and royal cartouches all reveal numerous titles used for Egyptian kings, but none resemble "Pharaoh." The authors argue that the term "pr-aa" ("Great House"), sometimes suggested as the origin of "Pharaoh," actually referred to the seat of government, not the ruler. They cite expert opinions from prominent Egyptologists, including Ashraf 'Izzat and Professor Zāhi Ḥawwās, who confirm the absence of "Pharaoh" in Ancient Egyptian records.

* **The Septuagint Deliberately Misrepresented History:** The sources accuse the Septuagint translators of deliberately replacing the Hebrew term "Mtzrim" with the Greek "Aigypto" (Egypt) when translating the Exodus narrative. This substitution, they argue, was a politically motivated act designed to elevate the status of the Ptolemaic dynasty and the Jewish community in Alexandria by connecting them to pivotal biblical events. This fabrication, the sources claim, has had a lasting impact on perceptions of history, creating a false association between the Israelites and Egypt that persists to this day.

* **The Quranic "Miṣr" Is Not Egypt:** The sources argue that the "Miṣr" mentioned in the Quranic accounts of prophets Joseph (Yūsuf) and Moses (Mūsa) is not Ancient Egypt. They point to several factors to support this claim, including:

    * **Description of Miṣr as a trade citadel:** The Quranic narrative suggests a walled and fortified trade station or a central hub for travellers, which aligns with the original meaning of the term "Miṣr" as understood in Arabic.

    * **Emphasis on rain-fed agriculture:** The story of Joseph features a drought that impacts the region's agriculture, a scenario unlikely in Ancient Egypt, which relied on the Nile's annual floods for irrigation.

    * **The Israelites inheriting the land after Far'awn's demise:** The Quran indicates that the Israelites became successors in the land where Far'awn ruled, a claim not supported by any historical evidence related to Ancient Egypt.

    * **Arabic names for Far'awn and his wife in Islamic traditions:** The sources point to the use of distinctly Arabic names for Far'awn and his wife in some Islamic traditions as further evidence that these figures were not associated with Ancient Egypt.

* **The Significance of "Ṭūr" and "Yamm":** The authors differentiate between "Ṭūr," specifically "Ṭūr Seenā'" mentioned in the Quran, and the commonly known Mount Sinai in the Sinai Peninsula. They highlight verses that suggest "Ṭūr" is located in a fertile region with abundant water sources, unlike the arid Sinai. They also emphasize the distinct meanings of the Quranic terms "baḥr" and "yamm," arguing that "yamm" refers to a flowing stream of water, not a sea. They use this interpretation to challenge the traditional narrative of the Red Sea crossing, proposing instead that Far'awn drowned in an inland stream located in the mountainous region of ancient Yemen.


**The book ultimately encourages a reassessment of widely accepted historical narratives, advocating for a critical reading of both the Quran and the Bible, free from preconceived notions and traditional interpretations.** It urges readers to question established authorities and to engage in independent research, using reason and evidence to uncover the truth about history.

You can give me your email and I will send the books to you. It's an eye-opener


God bless all

["Information Only"]

"Information Only"

Below are the copy paste of my messages to both of them:

1. The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra

To: Mr. Jay Smith/Al Fadi

I have seen a lot of Dan Gibson and your videos on the issue of the Masjidil Haram/Qibla during and after Muhammad's time
I believe you are very right that Makkah al-Mukarramah in Saudi Arabia is not the original place of Mecca/Becca where Muhammad was born
It is Petra in Jordan and the one in Makkah al-Mukarramah is a fake and unauthorised by God

I just watched your video "#28: FINALLY, A Rock Inscription Proves Mecca was "BUILT" late!" and this information is a great discovery!
Thanks for the video!

Note:
If you don't mind, please go to this link: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.0

You will find that some Quranists (GOD alone, Quran alone) believed the authorised original Masjidil Haram/Qibla is situated in Petra, Jordan
AND the shift to unauthorised sites is prophesied in the Quran via verses 9:107-110
Please see #Reply 15-18 on the link!

9:107 And some have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9:108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9:109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9:110 The buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable and wise.

The mathematical analysis of verses 9:107-110 proves that your findings on this "shifting" issue of  Masjidil Haram/Qibla are correct!
Anyway, this message is just for information only!

Thank you.

Glory be to God!

To be continued ...

Salam bro shukri,


You might want to see this channel,


https://youtu.be/WmsjGAAw4Uw


https://youtu.be/fTGxUHRfq9I

Or



https://youtube.com/@abu_ali_hail?si=I7pLV17N5AHxhhJ1


Or read the book.

Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses


https://www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE

Here is the true narrative that both Traditional Muslims and Jay Smith are not able to refute in their so called debate:
 True Islam is not the religion of the Traditional Muslims not is it an identity of any other religions like Christians , Judaism or any man made religion.

Islam is an attitude of mind and a way of life towards GOD our creator. It is GOD s only "religion" subscribed through all His prophets and messengers throughout the humans existence.

Mr Jay is right to criticise Traditional Islam that follows men s books -Hadiths- and contradicts /misinterprets Qoran. They have put themselves in a dire situation with their false interpretations and nonsense rules full of contradictions, hearsay and fables. They use Qoran for recitations and ceremonies and ignore or are ignorant of its true message.

Mr jay himself isolate verses out of context and claims he has Scientific evidence of a made up history and origin of Qoran.

Is he refuting Qoran and true Islam? He only thinks he is. he has no intention of studying Qoran sincerely, with honesty and solid knowledge. His agenda is to oppose and refute Traditional Islam.

Why are you putting true Islam and traditional Islam in the same religion brother centi50?

As far as I am concerned Jay Smith , his supporters along with traditional Islam and its supporters are both debating false religions. false history and false narratives. Nothing to do with GOD s true religion.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Slama Gl

No brother I am not pushing Traditional Islam. But I would like to see the argument they put forward is refuted.

I don't believe in traditional Islam at all. There are very great minds in this forum who can refute these people in their channels. That's what I would love to happening

God bless you


God bless you

He naively ignores what forensic linguistics is while building up his basic argument and stance.

Salam bro,

What is it that they ignore? Can you point it out? Or refute their claims