Messages

1

General Issues / Questions / Re: My thougths about Islam

« on: July 05, 2017, 03:20:03 PM »

It is probably better if you go back to sects.

Why would you say that to him?

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General Issues / Questions / Re: My thougths about Islam

« on: July 05, 2017, 03:19:28 PM »

I was born and raised in a Western country by North Africans, sunni muslim parents. When I was young in my perspective my parents were the voice of god, so when they say that something is prohibited I simply followed those instruction as I still wasn't able to acknowledge those rulesby myself. It wasn't that great as I was pretty alone in this duality of muslim/western guy. Yes there where other muslims in masjed where I was forced to go but still I took the priority to integrate in the western culture, whitout go against those rules my parents tought me. It was hard. So this thing went for pretty all my young age, nor I did bad things nor I was sure if god exists as I felt brainwashed.

But it came a time where I had to take my responsability and be an actor of my religios life, and so I started salat and lurking in muslim sites where I learned a lot of things. There were times where those things didn't go along with my morality and logic but in general I had faith, a blind one. So, as I said, when I was kid the others were christians and there wasn't a lot of debate, but then they became atheists and I started to feel the need to defend myself from their attacks. And I started to use logic as that is the only language that they would understand. That's the period where my faith was going to crumble the most.

I started to question reality and muslim countries. Why they aren't like the western countries? There is war, poverty and so on...  Isn't islam the true religion? Why god would allow something like this? So I studied a little bit of history and lernead that it wasn't always that way.In fact when the west had its dark age muslim countries had their golden age, where they were curious about the world and started to do science and so on and so forth. But then something changed.
It may not be a single cause for this decline but rather multiple. They had the Mongol invasion, the spain reconquest and of course the witch-hunt of philosophers. After that we came to the last century and after the colony period they started to reject western culture and it's like the islam of today is only about that: anti-western-culture ideology.


Then I discovered about hadith and obviously I rejected them as that would be a solution of the decline of islam. As a truth seeker I was hoping that rejecting hadith I would have reached a more pure version of islam but that wasn't the case. Even with quran only islam there are multiple views on many key aspects of this religion.
And I was so confused about that becasue I felt the need to find some authentic truth to finally start living seriously my life without any doubt.
So even with only quran there were debates of the meaning of single words. I really felt the truth go away another time. I started to feel that as a human being i'm not enough to fully understand the messange of god. I would spend years studying quran and I would not get to the same conclusion as others.

But with this thought it came a possibility. We are imperfect creature in an imperfect world. So even if the quran is perfect we would still read it and process with our mind and come to an imperfect understanding. But if I accept this I would get to a very wonderful conclusion. That I can interpret quran through my own ideology. I know it's sound like blasphemy but still it is an inevitable thing that all human beings conscious or unconscious do. So if there is some passage that don't get along with my human morality maybe there is an interpretation that would fit in. I know that this sounds like hypocrisy and means that there would be a lot versions of islam but that is exactly what this forum tought me. No one here, even through the purest form of islam has come to the same conclusions.

I mean there are quranist who think that there are 3 salat, other 5 and also who think that salat is not an actual ritual. And we would debate infinitely and never come to the same conclusion. The quran is not like math where we all would agree that 2+2 = 4, instead it explains a lot of complex things that our minds would process and inevitably come to different conclusions. Maybe and probably god expected this.

Why all this, why would I fit quran to my own "agenda"? Because of faith. It was pretty easy to reject hadith, but quran? If there are passages of quran that I can't get along my faith would crumble. I dont say that I will fit quran understanding to follow my basic human instinct and go with hookers or start drinking alchool etc. But there are things like homosexuality were I wouldn't accept that god create them to suffer. They also have the right to be happy. I will not judge them if they want to marry eachother, I'm a simple human being, I would not judge them because reading quran with my imprefect mind I get to the conclusion that homosexuality is a bad thing. I will not judge anyone in this world, I will not see with an air of superiority those who follow wrong religions because from their perspective they aren't. Maybe I would question their morality but not their beliefs.

So why I wrote all this? I'm seeking approval? Maybe. I would like to know if anyone think the same way I do and if there is an interpretation of quran that support this thesis.

I apologize for my bad English and please go easy with me, I'm at the beginning of my journey!

Salaam, To be honest I think very much like you. I also believe that we don't need to pass judgment on people like homosexuals, but I also go further, I believe we should also not be passing judgment on the non-believers. Allah did not create the majority of human life just to be destined for hellfire simply because they do not believe in what we believe. That would be against the creators claim of being the "Most just the most merciful". Even at the time of the Prophet or a 100 years after his death, the message of the Quran was not spread to all people and all nations. Many people in those nations lived and died without ever really understanding the Quranic call just like millions lived and died after that without getting the message. Even if some people do get to read the Quranic message and they still don't accept it with their heart because they don't get inspired by it, then how can we blame such people. Why would such people be doomed to an eternity of torture just for having a different opinion on things that are based on the unseen.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Could Zoroaster be a Prophet

« on: June 30, 2017, 01:00:15 PM »

exactly prophets been sent to every nation and area .. some of them are mention by name some of them are not mention by name..

So you think that there is a possibility that he may be a Prophet?

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General Issues / Questions / Could Zoroaster be a Prophet

« on: June 28, 2017, 10:44:00 AM »

I was watching the below video and was surprised by how much the Zoroastrian religion and Islam have in common. Allah only mentions a few Prophets in the Quran but could Zoroaster also have been a true Prophet of Allah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s1t0hrl4pE

The video starts off slow but is a very interesting insight into the Zoroastrian mindset, religion and philosophy.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: What happens to transsexuals?

« on: June 27, 2017, 01:38:09 PM »

They're not born transexual, it's a choice.

What about hermaphrodites?

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Your stand on alcohol consumption based on Quran

« on: June 27, 2017, 01:31:39 PM »

BOLD although he was a heavy drinker but he claimed infront of public that he drink moderately which is not normal in a society like pakistan to claim such thing no doubt he was the gallant person nobody ever claim such thing ever and everybody know that everybody else drinks too

rest of your post is history
and the seperation of bangladesh happened due to "Yahya khan" not due to bhutto
and 90000 militants of pak army become war prisoners
5000 square miles area invaded

and in this fragile moment bhutto takeover pakistan and he play his role well
release all the prisoners and area
and history is witness he was the best leader throughout the history of pakistan
his death was the start of pakistani curse
zia ul haq was the REAL disease of dictatorship

I will not get into a lengthy debate with you centered around political history of Pakistan as this is not the appropriate forum for it. Even though Bhutto holds the central and primary role in the separation of Bangladesh since he was not willing to accept the results of the election. But lets leave it at that and agree to disagree on this.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Your stand on alcohol consumption based on Quran

« on: June 26, 2017, 03:56:17 PM »

thats true actually
but i want to add something
bhutto banned it due to the reason of sharia law pressure otherwise he himself claimed that he drink moderately and he was about to lift the ban but he become victim of sharia law
overall that ban give nation harm more than benefit only benefit is to the one who sells it in high price

He was a heavy drinker, but he was trying to capture the religious vote as well, thats why he banned alcohol. He was trying to be a dictator which thankfully never happened, but he still had a massive hand in the disintegration of the country, whereby Bangladesh became an independent nation just because this man was unwilling to accept that he had lost the election. He banned alcohol in the hope to garner more votes, nothing else.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Your stand on alcohol consumption based on Quran

« on: June 25, 2017, 03:57:08 PM »

I agree, individuals vary, but as a whole society there will be many
who are not moderate.  There are moderate drug users but there
are drug addicts, there are moderate gamblers then there are those
who are addicted to gambling as well, we must consider what
is best for society as a whole.

                               

When has trying to moderate society as a whole led to a better society? The mafias in the US were created out of the ban on alcohol, they grew through this ban. Alcohol is easily available today in countries like Pakistan, the only difference the ban made is that the suppliers are earning more. As a society we cannot be moderated, it leads to retaliation. The Russians tried to control their society through communism, we all can see the results. In Pakistan Bhutto banned alcohol and yet alcohol is now available in whichever house that needs it. The society before the ban was actually much more balanced then it is now.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Your stand on alcohol consumption based on Quran

« on: June 25, 2017, 03:46:55 PM »

Saving innocent lives? That is very righteous to Allah/God (SWT).

How do you know that the life you are saving is innocent?

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General Issues / Questions / Re: How do you test religions to workout which one is true?

« on: June 23, 2017, 02:18:12 PM »

Peace.

How do you test religions, or beliefs in general to work out which is true?

Thanks

How do astrophysicists prove their belief in black holes? As per them, known physics collapses once you enter a black hole. It gets much weirder when you ask them about their theories on the quantum level. How do scientists test them?