Messages

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Questions / Comments on previous Scriptures (Torah - Psalms -Injeel) / Re: The bible corrupted?

« on: February 11, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »

Running... This particular claim falls by itself. The baths of Gader were ROMAN not jews and they were used by BYZANTINE rich people specially during the VII century AC. when they became popular.

There are greek inscriptions with poems and salutations to the emperor's wife. Jews did not rule Israel in VII. And the baths already existed having beig built by romans.  It is PERFECTLY normal to find Greek inscriptions (with cross or not).  Byzantio had accepted Christianism.

You are mistaking.  These buildings were damaged by an earthquake and restored in 633 by the Umayyad caliph who ruled from Damascus.  The inscription reads:

In the days of the servant of God Muʿāwiya (abdalla Maavia), the commander
of the faithful (amēra almoumenēn) the hot baths of the
people there were saved and rebuilt
by ʿAbd Allāh son of Abū Hāshim (Abouasemou), the
governor, on the fifth of the month of December,
on the second day (of the week), in the 6th year of the indiction,
in the year 726 of the colony, according to the Arabs (kata Arabas) the 42nd year,
for the healing of the sick, under the care of Ioannes,
the official of Gadara.

This inscription is not Roman but Ummayad.

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Questions / Comments on previous Scriptures (Torah - Psalms -Injeel) / Re: The bible corrupted?

« on: February 11, 2017, 07:29:49 AM »

@MoF I disagree early Islam was Jewish.  I repeat they were a judeo-christian more specifically judeo-nazarene sect in origin.  I can easily prove this to you with archaelogical evidence.

See this inscription at the Baths of Hammat Gader/Gadara dated 662-63 CE:



Notice the christian cross (top left corner)?  This is a christian symbol.  There is no way a jewish ideology would use a cross symbol.

More evidence?

Check this "islamic" coin:



Again the cross symbol.  Are you saying a Jewish ideology would mint coins with a christian cross on it?   

If this isn't sufficient evidence for you... just look at the inscription on the dome of the rock.  Ever seen a jewish inscription speaking of the messiah Jesus son of Mary?   

Concerning the rapid conquest of Persia this is historically explained by the instability of the Sassanid Empire during that time. 

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Questions / Comments on previous Scriptures (Torah - Psalms -Injeel) / Re: The bible corrupted?

« on: February 11, 2017, 05:30:53 AM »

I understand your confusion.  It's a natural result if one is unaware of the hidden history of the origins of Islam.

The contradicting statements on Jews, Christians and their scripture inside Quran can only be understood when one understands the true history of Islam.

Arabs and Jews were once allied in the early days of Islam (even though there was no faith called Islam back then, nor did they call themselves muslims).  In early islamic history, they collaborated to retake Jerusalem among others. 

At some point in history the Arabs turned against their judeo-christian allies.  This led to the self-contradicting statements inside Quran. The Quranic text was manipulated by later authors to try to textually confirm this schism but did a poor job resulting in the confusing and self-contradicting statements we find today in Quran.

Btw, I disagree the dead sea scrolls confirm the Bible was unaltered.  I think you are misunderstanding the DSS.  Some of the DSS repeat Old Testament texts.  The Bible however is a compilation of multiple books (not only the Old testament) which has changed a lot over time, just like the Quran.

The DSS shed a new light on the history of Islam.  The judeo-nazarene elements found inside the DSS can still be found in Islam and Quran today.  As I understand it, Islam sprung from judeo-nazarism.  Judeo-nazarism itself was a reaction on a judeo-christian faith that was being hijacked by Rome and turned into a gentile/universal faith.  Judeo-nazarenes heavily insisted on the Law (Thora) and didn't allow anyone to speak about the faith when they weren't circumcized or respected the dietary laws (among others). 

These judeo-nazarens were oppressed by Byzantine Romans.  Chased out of Palestine and Syria (see destruction of the Qumran site and the reason why they hid their texts in caves), they fled to the south, indoctrinated their Arab neighbours (see waraqa).  Forged an alliance to retake Jerusalem and Temple Mount from the Byzantine Romans.  Because of internal conflict the allliance broke, led to a schism with the Jews and Christians - resulting in a Quranic text which both speaks good and bad about Jews and Christians and their scriptures.

4

Quranic Divinity / Re: Is there proof for Qurans Divinity?

« on: February 11, 2017, 04:51:40 AM »

There is no proof for its divinity.

Mathematical analysis of the text shows it is the work of at least 30 different authors (possibly even as much as 100).

Stylistic elements, political context, evoked topics show the text was written during a period of more than 200 years.

See the work of Walter Jean-Jacques, Le Coran r?v?l? par la Th?orie des Codes, ?ditions de Paris, juillet 2014

Even the Quranic text speaks for itself concerning its divinity. 

(28:49) Sahih International: Say, "Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful."

This is not speaking about one book, cause it uses "either of them".   It is referring to  at-tawra wa l-inj?l, the Torah and Injil.  Not the Quran.

Add to this the Quranic "satanic" verses.  If Quran is divine polytheism is alright coz God says so and thus being self-contradicting?

Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-?Uzz?
and Manāt, the third, the other?
These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for.

Then look at the content which show a very limited understanding of biology and the universe (attributing thought to the human heart, fixed stars, flat earth,...).  Look at the fiction in Quran which recounts the fable of Alexander building a gate against Gog and Magog.

People still believing this text has divine origin in 2017?  Lul.  The inimitability of Quran was already disputed by arabs of the 8th century.  (See  Rippin Andrew, Muslims, Vol.1, London /New York, Routledge, 1990, p.26-27.41. and  Urvoy Dominique, Les penseurs libres dans l?Islam classique, Paris, albin Michel, 1996, p.55-58.)

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: What is الْقَارِعَةُ ?

« on: February 10, 2017, 04:18:12 PM »

I think your translation of  الْقَارِعَةُ   is quite accurate.  It makes sense to me.

 الْقَارِعَةُ  occurs in reference to Thamud and 'Aad in chapter 69.  According to professor Eisenmann (an expert on the dead sea scrolls), Thamud and 'Aad refer to Edessa ('Aad) and the conversion of that place to christianity by the apostle Thomas (Thamud).  Edessa became an important centre of syriac christianity very early on (mass conversions).   In 201 the city was devastated by a great flood.  This is what Quran is referring to.  The flood is explained in the Quran as a local apocalypse- a preview of judgment day if you like, similar to that of sodom and gomorrah - a punishment from God for those who rejected and turned back.

This is a very brief summary of Eisenmans understanding, if you are interested in a more elaborate explanation of 'Aad and Thamud go to this link

I think the rest of your translation fares poorly.  You removed the obvious references to Hell and Hellfire which are by principle always key elements in the quranic accounts of destruction and apocalypse.  Quran uses natural disaster repetitively as metaphors for hell/apocalypse/judgment day.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: For those who believe the Restricted Temple is in Jerusalem

« on: February 06, 2017, 01:11:25 PM »

Salam,

So how are we supposed to take back the Temple as is said in Quran?

We don't even have a leader, and we aren't that unified yet. Maybe it's not in our lifetime? Are there any more information in Quran regarding the believers retaking the Temple?

This is just speculating. What do you think?

Answering your initial question.  I don't think the point is to take it back.  Quran promised the believers would take it back (from the byzantine Romans) which they historically did in 637 AD after a bloodless surrender.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: For those who believe the Restricted Temple is in Jerusalem

« on: February 06, 2017, 09:33:28 AM »

Salam,

I think I'm asking the wrong question...

Are there any members here who thinks the Restricted Temple is in Jerusalem?

Salam

I'm absolutely convinced it is.

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Safa and Marwa identified - Surah Al-Baqarah [2:158]

« on: January 30, 2017, 03:28:27 AM »

I'll try again...

Sapha in hebrew means to watch

Maspha in hebrew means a place from where you can watch/watch tower

Sapha into Greek =  "skopos/skope"

Skopos into Latin = Scopus

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Safa and Marwa identified - Surah Al-Baqarah [2:158]

« on: January 30, 2017, 03:01:22 AM »

This topic isn't about whether hajj is mandatory or not.  Regardless of your off-topic post, the thesis of Jerusalem being the destination of hajj is entirely missing in your article (it only tests the Meccan thesis).

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Safa and Marwa identified - Surah Al-Baqarah [2:158]

« on: January 30, 2017, 02:46:15 AM »

To be clear, the sapha mentioned in Josephus antiquities is a corruption of the hebrew "Maspha" or "Mizpah" meaning "watch tower"/"place of outlook".   The Greek rendition of watch tower is "scopio"/"scopeo".  Translated into Latin: Scopus.

Mount Scopus has been strategically important as a base from which to attack the city since antiquity. The 12th Roman Legion camped there in AD 66.  In AD 70, at the conclusion of the same war that led to the destruction of the Jewish Temple, Mount Scopus was used as a base to carry out the final siege of the city by the same 12th Legion, plus the 15th and 5th Legions, while the 10th Legion was positioned on the continuation of the same ridge, known as the Mount of Olives. The Crusaders used it as a base in 1099.

Maspha

Name of several places in the Bible. The Septuagint transcribes Masph?, Masseph?, Masseph?t; Vulg.: Maspha and Masphath (once Masphe, Masepha, Mespha); Hebrew: M??peh and M??pah; the latter almost invariably in pause. The word, with many other proper names, is derived from ?PH=watch, observe, and means "watch- tower" (speculum, skop?a), which sense it bears twice in the Bible (Isaiah 21:8; 2 Chronicles 20:24). Josephus interprets by katopteu?menon or (Antt. VI, ii, 1).

I hope this explains the etymological relation to you.