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Messages - nimnimak_11

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General Issues / Questions / Re: to consider on ablution
« on: February 09, 2021, 06:01:09 AM »
Peace nimnimak_11
Thanks for explaining.
I see.
I take the whole expression " including "Bi" to mean wipe your head  -Face already mentioned ,so without face-
It does not mean "with your head"  like "Ihfadhu Bi Aymanikum" means  look after your responsibility not look with it. The "Bi" to me singles out the action of "wipe" the head as separate from wash the  face arms and feet.
That is how I understand it.
GOD bless you.

Thank you good logic.

GOD Bless you too.

General Issues / Questions / Re: to consider on ablution
« on: February 07, 2021, 03:53:49 PM »
i.e to hear and obey these  specific instruction to prepare to connect with your prayer. It has little to do with real cleanness. We can take a bath if we are dirty with soap etc.

Peace good logic

Thank you for replying. I'm pretty sure that it's not a matter of physical hygiene. But it also can't be without some real beneficial purpose to it. For example, fasting has many benefits. But ablution? I'll tell you about my experiences regarding this:

I stopped ablution at one point because it did not make sense to me and I felt like sincerity to God would be for me to stop doing ablution. So I decided to avoid upholding what I had no knowledge of. From a hygiene point of view, I felt my face was less clean because I normally only wash my face when I wake up and that's it. It was only because of ablution that I would wash my face twice. So I noticed this difference. But then that would just mean that I wash my face twice a day from a hygiene point of view.

Also, my hair is in a better state when I wipe my head twice a day. Showering dries the hair, and wiping the head is beneficial in countering this effect. Also, I think if you wipe your feed twice a day, it won't smell at all. So these are the physical benefits that I can think of, which to me, are not essential. As in I can wash my face twice at times that are more convenient, as opposed to necessarily doing it to uphold salat.

I've upheld Salat both with and without ablution to see if it effects the effectiveness of my salat. To my understanding it does not. Surprisingly, at the moment, I am of the belief that upholding salat at Fajr and Maghreb bring about good results (which is the way I'm upholding salat now), but this is not crystal clear. I've upheld great salats or equally effective salats outside of these times. For the sake of humility, I'm trying the Fajr and Maghreb timings now that I am able to (because I don't have to go to work).

But what I'm trying to say is that ablution must be clearly beneficial or relevant to salat. If you look at all the roots of the key words in 5:6, all of them have meanings that can amount to something like purifying, preparing, organising yourself mentally. It can be the case that an interpretation is derived that avoids the notion of a physical ablution. At least this registered with me on some level when I checked the root of those words.

One thing I'm still unsure of, does the Quran actually say:

and wipe with your heads and your feet to {alkaabayn}

As in does it actually use the word with? Why did corpus not show this? It has huge impact on the meaning at hand.

General Issues / Questions / Re: to consider on ablution
« on: February 07, 2021, 05:21:15 AM »
From verse 5:6

clean your faces and your hands to {almarafiq}
and wipe with your heads and [wipe] your feet to {alkaabayn}
and if you were to be avoided then {ttaharuu}

and if you were sick or on {safar} or someone came from [among] you from {ghaait} or {lamastom} the women then you didn’t find water then {tayammamu ssa3idan tayiban} then wipe with your heads and [with] your hands from it.

How wiping works:
let’s take for example a table. Let’s say the table is wet from cleaning with “water”.

When it is said wipe your hand, then your hand should be wiped.
But if it is said wipe with your hand,then you should wipe something with your hand.

We wipe the table with a cleaner, the cleaner afterwards is wet.
I hope you see my point here.

I originally wanted to talk about this verse:
someone came from [among] you from {ghaait}

when I was looking at the structure of the verse I found out that this one start with 3rd singular compared to others 2nd plural.
Which made me think that the 3rd person is a condition for “us”
literally if someone from us came from {ghaiit} then WE should {tayammamu} if water not found

what do you think?

Peace all

Can we get more eyes on the above please? Does the arabic actually amount to:

clean your faces and your hands to {almarafiq}
and wipe with your heads and [wipe] your feet to {alkaabayn}

I take the Quran seriously. If it says "and wipe with your heads" then the word with changes the meaning dramatically.

I tried, I saw no with there. So I don't know what to believe regarding what is being said in the Quran in this instance. Any help would be appreciated.

I know I definitely didn't agree with the reformist translation when I looked at corpus. Though I appreciate their efforts greatly, at times they have overstepped in translation. They have forced meaning in places that are not there in order to avoid meanings that they feel is at odds with their genuine sense of good. 4:127 is one of those verses.

Thanks  :)

Physical prostrating is okay if its an expression of devotion.

Mental one is like 24/7.

If you naturally feel the need to physically prostrate, thinking it is an instance of being sincere to God, the Perfect, then do it. If you don't, then why be insincere to God/Perfection? You cannot force yourself to be in awe of God. Either God Has Mercy on you such that you become in awe of God/Existence and existing, or God Chooses not to do this. If God Chooses not to do this, it is because you do not deserve this. If God Chooses to do this, it is because you deserve this. If God Chooses to do this, then be appreciative. If God Chooses not to do this, then do not act as though God Chose to do this. Do not act as though God Has Blessed you by Making it such that you are in awe of it, when this is not the case.

I'm confident that some people who physically prostrate are either being pretentious (pretending to be in awe of God without actually being in awe as a result of not having a good understanding of God...which is as a result of not being sufficiently sincere to God and Goodness and Perfection), or they are doing something pointless. They do it because they think they're supposed to do without having any genuine reasons for doing it.

A man who is able too see for the first time, may be so in awe of God/Existence, that he may feel the need to physically prostrate. He should do this.

If Wakas' summary is accurate, then regarding point 1 the following can be said:

God Is not timeless. God Encompasses all things (including time...that's why if you pray to God for a sign, you will possibly better see/understand the truth that God Knew when you would pray for a sign, and organised everything in advance to correspond with that time your prayed for a sign such that you would know God Is Omnipresent...encompassing all time and beings in relation to you and in relation to everyone else. God Coordinates Perfectly because God/Existence truly Is Perfect).

We don't know what it's like to be Omnipresent. We don't know what it's like to encompass all time and space. These are all unknowns to us. They are not know absurdities to us. So we cannot say that it is impossible for an Omnipresent being to be cognitive in the same way that we can say it is impossible for a triangle to be round.

A cognitive Omnipresent being is not absurd, HOWEVER, a being that has nothing to do with time being cognitive, is absurd. It is not the case that God has nothing to do with time. To have nothing to do with time is to be non-existent. A non-existent being cannot be cognitive.

A round triangle is absurd. An Omnipresent being being Cognitive/Self-Aware is not absurd.

Regarding the second point, so what if God Knows what you're going to choose before you choose to do it? You still choose.

It's not just that. God Chooses/Wills that you chose x. But obviously, it's still also what you chose. If you did not choose x then it cannot be said that God Chose/Willed that you choose x. God Could also Choose/Will that you do something without you choosing to do it. If you find your hand tapping yourself on the back against your will, then that's God Willing/Choosing that you be tapped on your back by your own hand. This is not the same as you choosing to tap yourself on your back.

It's absurd to say because G knew I would choose x before I even chose it, I never actually chose x.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: repentance, absolution
« on: January 14, 2021, 11:10:48 AM »
Salam everyone,

Here is are 2 translations of  verse 4.17 I wonder if I understood well :

Sahih international :The repentance accepted by Allah is only for those who do wrong in ignorance [or carelessness] and then repent soon after. It is those to whom Allah will turn in forgiveness, and Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

Yusuf Ali: Allah accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy: For Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

The verse in arabic:
إِنَّمَا ٱلتَّوْبَةُ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ ٱلسُّوٓءَ بِجَهَٰلَةٍ ثُمَّ يَتُوبُونَ مِن قَرِيبٍ فَأُو۟لَٰٓئِكَ يَتُوبُ ٱللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا 

So the repentance is only accepted when someone commit a sin (by evil i wonder if it includes all sins) without knowing it is bad and repent soon after.
So he have to repent immediatly after he realized he has done evil.
But it can take more or less time for one to realize it, right ?

I can see examples of people, who commit sins, know there are sins or ignore the warns of some believers. At the moment maybe they didn't realized the serouisness of their deeds or were somehow not "ready" .

I wonder with the verse above if their deeds will be forgiven, if their repentance will be accepted. Seems like that no. But i could be wrong.

I give a few example here to illustrate:

The man (or woman) who commits adultery and did it several times and knew that it was bad but only repented years laters. He committed it not to challenge God but because of weakness or wasn't able to stop himself ( or not willing to not do it at that time).

The woman who had seen someone (a wizard ?) in order to make something to keep her husband, thinking that it was a good thing. I heard stories like this in Morrocco. What about her repentance ?

To sump up: There is no way to repent unless we do evil by ignorance, isn't it.
So even one has been accorded by Allah a life of 70 years  (for example) but did "evil" not by ignorance in his life and repented after, he won't be forgiven.
example: He committed sins from 20 to 50, repented at 50 and has 20 years left before he dies.

I believed before I read this verse, that the sincere repentances were accepted if done before agonizing, when we are about to die or a few times before dying. But didn't thought that those you did sins thiking they can do all sins they want and just need to "hajj" or repented to be forgiven: I means those who somehow "plays" or are premeditating or calculating.

I just wonder if there is here (in this verse) a degree of seriousness to be take, the real attention of the people ( really bad or "just" negligent or carefree).

I noticed in the translations that some translators added "carelessness" or " folishness" as if the word translated by "ignorance" encompasses those meanings.

Can someone bring more details ? (by using verses and their knolewdge in arabic).

May the God guide us.

If I sin and then seek forgiveness in a genuine and sincere manner, then I think that means my punishment ends. If I intentionally rape a woman, and then seek forgiveness from God, then can it be the case that nothing bad happens to me? If my repentance is truly sincere, I think my punishment ends and nothing bad happens to me afterwards. But how do you sincerely seek forgiveness for raping a woman with intent? Is it not the case that you would voluntarily hand yourself over to the authorities or slave away to make amends to the woman you raped? So in this, is there suffering? If you are truly repentant during this process, I'm not sure you can truly suffer. The more truly repentant your are, the less you suffer I think. The less repentant you are (despite taking the steps towards repentance, such as handing yourself over to the authorities, or slaving away for the woman) the more you suffer in your goal for setting things right. If you persist in your attempt to set things right, it may be such that you become truly repentant such that you are no longer Hell worthy. Now contrast this with when you do something without fully intending or knowing that it is evil. I don't think any suffering would follow for you if you truly view your Lord as Perfect.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Salah, Ghusl and Wudu
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:49:06 AM »
Life has been kicking my butt these last few days and my anxiety has gone so bad that I have reached my breaking point.
Do you believe God is Almighty? Do you believe that God Handles ALL affairs (including how you feel or who can do what to you...including yourself)? Do you believe God Handles all affairs Perfectly? By Perfectly I mean whatever happens to you or someone else, is absolutely perfect/fair/just/beautiful/glorious.

If you sincerely believe yes to the above questions, then I don't understand how you can have anxiety. Anxiety is rooted in a fear of imperfection happening or occurring. Like you're afraid someone or something will have something happen to them that they didn't FULLY deserve. But this is impossible because God Controls Everything. If you trust in God, you have nothing to fear, nor anything to grieve because God is wholly innocent of evil, and God Handles ALL affairs. And none can be as good to you as God, not even yourself. It is only when your sincerity or trust in God is lacking that fear and grieving become at all possible.

The fact that now I cannot even pray properly and have this constant nagging that Allah is not hearing me and my duas are going unheard is literally making me go crazy.

But God Knows what you reveal and what you hide. The idea that Allah is not hearing you is absurd/paradoxical/false. You are not responsible for what happens to you. God is Responsible for what happens to you and everyone else. All you are responsible for is what you choose to be (good or evil, sincere to God or insincere to God), you are only responsible for what you choose. Nothing else. The consequences of your choices, are all God's and God's responsibility alone. Neither you nor anyone else possesses an atom's weight in comparison to God. God Tells you that if you choose to be evil in an unrepentant manner, then it's good/perfection that you be punished. God is Responsible for your punishment. God is responsible for perfection. Not you. All good/perfection is from God, all evil is from ourselves. Our decision to view God as not truly Perfect, is unfair to God. This rightfully causes us suffering. So do your best view/treat God as truly Perfect. Because that is the truth. This constant nagging that Allah is not hearing your dua, is a consequence of how you view God. You are not viewing God as Perfect. God is much higher than what we view It. But at least let's do our best to view it as Perfect as we can.

So members of FMO, how many of you decided to stick with traditional prayers and how many of you are still stuck with it ? Any advice on how you observed the prayer while keeping it in line with Quran ?

I upheld ablution like the Quran said and tried to uphold 'Salat' twice a day. One at the beginning of my day and one at the end of it. Salat for me would be sitting down and remembering God with verses and things that I came across in life that injected me with the reverence of God. It also consists of me recalling some of the things I say to myself to never do again and thing that I should try to improve on. Recently I stopped even this. I find that sometimes I wake up and really don't need to do my Salat because my reverence is potent. I've seen multiple times that when I try to Salat with a potent reverent state, I harm myself and even my reverence. I still feel a genuine need to uphold at least once a day or even twice. But my understanding of Salat is completely different at the moment. God Willing, I will start a new thread to discuss how the verses outlining ablution are actually describing mental preparation for going about your day seeking to respond and race towards God. This seeking to respond and race towards God is Salat in my opinion. For example, if I try and understand more about the nature of Existence on all levels (from overall things to things that pertain to my current situation in life and what sort of goals I should set to pursue in relation to improving my situation to the point of Heaven), and exercise reason in trying to do this, I think this is Salat.

I really don't think traditional salat has any benefit other than that it shows that you are willing to be humble and disciplined. Past a certain point, if you persist with it, I think you are willing to show laziness in Salat, in that you are being called to progress and change, but you do not take the step towards this. If you are not called to this, then you are not lazy at all. If someone genuinely finds potent benefit in traditional salat, such that to them it is truly as important as the Quran makes it out to be, then they should continue with it. They should make sure though that they are not lying to themselves in the name of religion or God.

Having said that, fasting would seem pointless at first glance, maybe even ridiculous. Don't eat, it's virtuous/sawab. But with the studies coming through on intermittent fasting, it would it is madness to not fast in my opinion. Traditional salat is completely useless to me. I'm very confident on this. The Salat I upheld, was clearly beneficial to me, but the idea of doing it twice a day, was showing signs of harming reverence such that either I changed the content of my Salat, or I uphold less frequently. This is still something striving in terms of trying to form a better understanding.
Now coming to the main dilemma, wudu and ghusl. Performing them is east peasy. Knowing what breaks wudu and what makes ghusl mandatory has been a pain in my backside. At least wudu is still somewhat not that much of a big deal because most of the time water is available and I can renew it. But what about ghusl? The sectarians have spread out a list but now it's pretty sus to me.
Now I did a quick research that ghusl becomes mandatory when :

-you have sex ( I think we find this in the Quran too ) but they say even if a person didn't have any sex,  discharge of sexual fluids through masturbation/wet dreams or any other factor makes ghusl mandatory. So does the Quran actually speaks about sexual intercourse or just sexual fluids ?

- Menstruation of course. But I have heard that we can still pray during our menses ( heeeellllllllppppppl )

- Post partum bleeding ( huh ? )

Can It be possible that ghusl and salah are not even related ? Like ghusl is just Ghusl ( bath ) and even if you haven't yet had a shower after menstruation/sex you can still pray ?

I really don't think we need to to physical ablution. I will hopefully start a new thread to discuss this more. Just do what you think God would want you to do whilst viewing God as truly Perfect. Ask yourself all the time, am I viewing my Lord as Perfect? Am I sincere in my view of God Being Perfect? Or do I just believe God is God without really thinking about Godliness/Perfectness of God?

General Issues / Questions / Re: Clean slate
« on: January 04, 2021, 06:47:34 AM »

Since it's obvious we messed up in our previous life even if by just making a wrong choice, are we born a clean slate? We recall no past life memories/ experiences, or DO WE? Does our subconscious mind hint at a previous life? Do our dreams hint at past life experiences? Are humans born 'sinless'? If nobody is perfect except God, we are born imperfect (spiritually)?

Peace Sarah

Disobeying God is a wrong choice. So is being a rapist, a ponzi schemer, an adulterer and so on (all of which are rooted in viewing God the wrong way, or by viewing Existence as imperfect (instead of Perfect). Some wrong choices are forgivable, others are not. Some wrong choices are very damning, others are a little damning. I think whatever advantages or disadvantages we are born with and are given in this life, is reflected on the depth and breadth of how much we ate from the forbidden tree (which I currently think is an analogy of how much evil we have allowed to enter our hearts by rejecting God's Perfection). We would never disobey God if we truly believed God/Existence to be Perfect. I think we failed and continue to fail to acknowledge God's Perfection either because we were oppressive, or lacking in willpower.

We would not have gone anywhere near the tree if we viewed God as Perfect. Also, Satan would have prostrated to Adam if it viewed God as Perfect. First, Satan did wrong and sought respite to do further wrong. Then, we did wrong (despite God Telling us not to do wrong), but unlike Satan, we sought forgiveness and mercy. In this life, the ones that follow God's Guidance, the ones that genuinely seek Forgiveness and Mercy, the ones that show sincerity regarding wanting to be better than what they are (the ones that respond to goodness as opposed to evil), the ones that do and act in a manner that is sincere to a perfect existence, these are the ones that God Will Forgive and have Mercy on. The ones that seek respite to complete their transgressions and become truly evil like Satan or Pharaoh, God will not Forgive them (it's not like they wanted Forgiveness and Mercy), thus, God will not have Mercy on them. They will get what they deserve. Hell (the very thing they mocked as they continued to transgress and do evil. Like a rapist or dictator who perhaps thinks to himself, if I go to Hell for this, then so be it, I'm still going to oppress and rape). God's Retribution/Vengeance.

Who would disobey that which they view as being Perfect or be in opposition to It? Those who wrong themselves.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Lesson from Yousuf's story Ch 12
« on: January 01, 2021, 06:03:48 AM »
81:29 and 4:78 you have taken  far away from context...
You think this is what I'm doing, I think this is what you're doing. God Knows the truth. Perhaps through discussion, God Will Show us if this is what we're both doing, or if this is what one of us is doing.
Further... In 81:29 I don't  see a word for ANYTHING as you claim.. If there is let me know which word is ANYTHING..
You are right. I apologise for my mistake. There is no 'anything' in that verse. The verse says:

You cannot will except that Wills God.

Which of the following two do you think 81:29 means:

1) You can sometimes will without God also Willing
2) You can never will except if God also Wills

Do you think 1 or 2 is correct? Or do you think everyone always wills independently of what God Wills?

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