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Messages - ayman

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You are not making any sense in your response.

I am stating a specific verse that speaks of an actual event/behavior that was done to impact the sequence of the months, and you are simply repeating the same old statement "Ramadhan means scorching heat!"

For the palm tree...I leave you to ponder the verses when you are in a more objective mode.

I have nothing to add.

Peace Layth,

It will not make sense to you just like it didn?t make sense to Jane for 19 years and just like it didn?t make sense to Sunnis for hundreds of years. What you all have in common is that you take the word ?ramadan? that the god selected as the meaningless proper name of some Arab month in a false calendar. You are assuming that the god has to conform and submit to the Arab distorted calendar. Until you grasp the simple fact that the term scorching heat just like winter and late spring is a meaningful description of a cosmic phenomenon independent of Arabs then you will stay tied at the umbilical cord to some guy who invented a false calendar that you are in doubt about.

When you cut your umbilical cord and get over the mental block of the meaningless proper name then you will be able to add a lot.

Peace and all the best,


You seem to have misunderstood my post. In 9:37 god admonishes the rejecters for playing around with the system of the intercalary month so as to circumvent God's restrictions (by adding it one year and skipping it in the next). As a result, the 12 months shift out of their place and thus the rejecters (like today) say they are obeying God when they have moved the entire landscape.

Thus, if the Arab speakers had designed a calendar (1-12months) that was based on the seasons (hence the names Rabea, Ramadhan), and if these Arab speakers knew they were not allowed to hunt in 4 months (say 3,4, 5, and 6) - but they wanted to because those were the months that wild game was most vulnerable -  and if they did what our Sunni/Shia's of today did by letting the calendar slip (as God tells us), then it goes without much debate that "Ramadhan" would have a 1 in 12 chance of being in its correct seasonal position when the Quran was revealed.

Conclusion: You can't make the statement that the Quran was revealed in the proper place of Ramadhan (scortching heat) unless you willfully ignore 9:37. We can only state with certainty that the Quran was revealed in the month "named" Ramadhan at that juncture in time.

Your understanding is incorrect for 2 reasons:

1) Palm trees give fruit when they are still under 1m in height (I have palm trees and my small children can eat the dates directly from the tree).
2) The Quran does not tell Mary to "shake the trunk of the palm tree" - it says "shake towards you with the trunk of the palm tree". The difference in Arabic is small, but the meaning changes.

Doesn?t matter what the calendar is. The term scorching heat is a description in the Quran just like winter (شتاء) and late spring (صيف) in 106:2

إِيلَافِهِمْ رِحْلَةَ الشِّتَاءِ وَالصَّيْفِ
 [الجزء: ٣٠ | قريش ١٠٦ | الآية: ٢]

What you are saying is that the Arabs distortion of their calendar actually moved the cosmic phenomena of scorching heat, winter and late spring around. In this case the Arabs performed a cosmic miracle no prophet ever performed :)

As far as the palm tree the passage says she shook the trunk towards her which means not just shaking but also bending the trunk ... an even more difficult feat ... no matter what the size of the palm tree.



Shahr cannot mean ?full moon? as that would throw off a number of verses which speak of child waning lasting 30 months and the fasting of 2 consecutive months In certain circumstances as well as the waiting for divorce 3 months or 3 menstruations.

Peace brother Layth,

Actually, menstruations are cyclical events just like the full-moon. They are not continuous 28-31 days consecutive periods like months. Therefore, the great reading using the same terminology for counting menstruations further confirms the Lisan Alarab dictionary meaning of ?shahr? as full-moon.



However, if you read more into the Quran, you will find that the Arabs had been guilty of "manipulating" the sacred months by distorting the times to insert the extra month (intercalary) thata balanced the lunar and solar calendars:

Peace brother Layth,

I am sure many here have read the great reading many times and personally I don?t remember any verse stating that the Arabs or anyone manipulated the meaning of the word ?ramadan? and changed it from cold (December) or mild/equal (September) to scorching heat. It is the god who said ?ramadan? in 2:185 not the Arabs. So unless you are claiming that the word meaning was originally cold and the Arabs changed it to scorching heat, your theory is not aligned with the great reading or the Arabic language, just like the Hijri calendar where the meaning of the months became arbitrary and false.

Have you seen how big the trunk of a palm tree is? Do you really think a pregnant woman in severe labor pain can have the force to simply collect the dates by shaking the trunk of a palm tree or is there divine intervention? I would suggest you go in September and shake a palm tree and see if dates fall on your head. Why do you think laborers climb up palm trees to collect the harvest when it is so easy to simply shake it and collect the dates? Also, different varieties of dates mature at different times of the year. For example, in the Sinai I have seen some varieties mature in July.



I don't even know how to spell it! Is it Ramadan or Ramadhan or Ramazan? I have seen all three used.
Kill me.
Just kill me now.

Peace Jane,

It doesn?t matter how you transliterate a word. Transliteration doesn?t help in understanding, translation does.

The word means ?scorching heat?... so just by translating it you are already very close to the timing without anyone killing you :)

Be weary of anyone who doesn?t translate any concept that you are trying to understand. This is what kept you running in circles all those years.

The full-moon of scorching heat (shahr ramadan)  is the first full-moon after the summer solstice.

This subject is very simple but at the same time can be very difficult. This is expected since the timing can only be known by those who the god has guided.

... and you shall magnify the god for what he has guided you (2:185)



Pilgrimage (Hajj) / Re: hajj is (in) the months well known... 2:197
« on: November 23, 2018, 01:49:22 PM »
"the hajj are months well known so whoever undertook the hajj within them..." 2:197
"the hajj is (in) months well known so whoever undertook the hajj within them..." 2:197

Peace brother Wakas,

This begs the question, how is it that the "hajj" are months well known to us? How are we any different than the Sunnis in interpreting this? What makes this untranslated word "hajj" inherently hapening in a well known time to all of humanity? 

There is no such thing as universal known months for a pilgrimage or for a debate or whatever. There is on the other hand well known harvest full-moons for the harvest feast. So now by properly translating this passage it suddenly becomes obvious and clear and completely self-explanatory:

"The harvest feast is full-moons well known so whoever decreed the harvest feast within them..." 2:197

Peace and best regards,


1) inviolable months must be consecutive as per Quran
2) Hajj periods mark the beginning of the 4 consecutive inviolable months, as per Quran

Peace brother Wakas,

In addition to your two points about the four inviolable full moons being consecutive, they MUST also occur at the beginning of the year for the simple reason that "nasi'" (the haphazard intercalation every other year) was done at the END of the year to delay the restriction on hunting.

The harvest feast occurs during known harvest full-moons. The first inviolable full moon is for fasting to remind us of the suffering of animals (see fasting prescribed as the only punishment in 5:95 where the hunter "tastes the consequence of his deed". Then the following three full moons are for the harvest feast.

Peace and best wishes,


A consequence of that study, if confirmed, is about month of Ramadan.

If my study based on papyri and inscriptions above is correct, then it means that in 7th CE, month of Ramadan felt around August / September.

It didn't fall around summer solstice as explained by brother Ayman here

Which means that Leilat al-Qadr was surely the automn equinox, possibly the same day as Yom Kippur.

Thank you for this interesting analysis. I remember a while ago I checked what 1/1/1 in Hijri on one of the date conversion apps like this one:

1/1/1 Hijri was the first new moon after the summer solstice. I didn't give it much weight as I am not sure what rules the app is using for conversion. For example, what do they assume about intercalation, which even according to Sunni traditions wasn't stopped until the year of death of the prophet.

As far as the equinoxes, it is impossible for the equinoxes to mark a year. Using the method in 17:12 you would only get half a year with the equinoxes.

Also, the "nasi'" was an improper intercalation introduced at the end of the year every other year to delay the hunting restriction and violate it. So this means that the restricted full moons must occur at the beginning on the year. We know that one of the meanings of a derivitive of "RMD" ("TaRaMoD") means inhumane hunting in the hot time of the year by chasing an animal until its legs burn from the heat and it falls. Hunters can catch animals this way with their hands without using weapons (see 5:94 reference to catching prey by hands). The hot time of the year is when young animals are newly born and are relying on their mother so killing the mother means sentencing her newborns to death by dehydration and starvation. Notice that out of the punishments listed for violating the hunting restriction in 5:95 fasting is the only one followed by the reason being so that the hunter "tastes the consequence of his deed". How does the hunter taste the consequence of his deed by fasting?  He experiences the thirst and hunger of the wild animal during the hot time of the year when hunting is restricted.

This is why fasting was decreed. It is not to feel the suffering of the poor as people contend. The poor are not given a license not to fast. It is to feel the suffering of the wild life that we as leaders of the earth must take good care of. This is why we fast with the beginning of the hunting restriction.

Peace and best wishes,




Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan. / Re: Hot/"ramadan" Answer
« on: November 23, 2018, 12:57:41 PM »
That is not true as we could pick the interval between equinoxes. What speaks against this? Can you explain also why it can't be any other days?
Also, how would the intercalary period work - what happens if a 13th full moon appears. How exactly would one account for that, how long, etc.?

Peace and sorry for the delayed reply. The equinoxes will only give you the count of half a year and not a year as per 17:12.

In years where you get 13 full-moons between summer solstices, you simply ignore the 13th moon and skip counting it and count only 12 as per 9:36. This realigns the year so that the first full-moon is always the one after the summer solstice.

Peace and best regards,


Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan. / Re: Ramadhan = ?
« on: July 07, 2015, 12:57:20 PM »
It's been a long time. Good to see you post :)
I would agree and disagree with some of the things you said. Let me list them as points:
- I can agree with the meaning ascribed to Ramadhan as "scorched/parched". I have seen an alternative, but the general use of the word seems to carry the day.
- I can agree that the parched/scorched period for the Middle East ranging between June 20 and September 22 (Summer solstice to Fall equinox when the rains hit the dry/hot earth).
- I can agree that the month begins with the full moon.
- I can agree that fasting is for 10 days (ayam madoodat) and that we must "complete the count".
- I don't agree that the meaning of "shahr" is "full moon" as that creates a distortion in a number of verses which speak of the period required as a full cycles and not just the 10 days of the full moon cycle.
- I don't agree that Maryam encountered a miraculous palm tree as dates hang from trees less than 1 meter and shaking such palm tree would allow its ripened dates to fall.
- I don't agree that the full moon of the summer solstice is the correct fast due to"
  a) the valid point noshirk mentioned of "qadr/measure" being a description of the night of Ramadhan, and that the Equinox is the only month during the June-September period where the day and night, if they are measured, would be equal;
  b) the fast of summer creates hardship (contrary to what Go tells us) as people who would work in the open would suffer;
  c) the summer solstice has the longest day of the year (northern hemisphere) which would take the fast to extreme hours in some habitable regions.

Thanks my dear brother Layth, it is good to be posting :). I browse the forum every few weeks but the admin of the FB page with its 2.7 million members has taken away most of the time I have available for posting.

The full-moon is not a 10 day cycle. It is just a marker. So when we hear in the great reading about the fasting of two consecutive full-moons, then this is the period marked by two full-moons, which is 29-30 days. You can never count 12 "29-30 day cycles" in a year. The only way to count 12 is if "shahr" means full-moon, which is confirmed by Classical Arabic dictionary.

Had the palm tree been hanging less than 1 meter, then why would one need to shake it to get the ripened dates? One can just reach and grab them. The size and height of the palm tree is not known. At least the palm trees that I have seen are big and even small ones, which are maybe just 3 meters high their thick trunks cannot be easily shaken even by a strong man, let alone a woman in labor. Normally, when the dates are ripe, you can find a few already fallen next to the palm tree and no need to shake to begin with.  I traveled to Sharm El Sheikh in July and the hotel had palm trees and their dark yellow dates were littering the ground. Again, this whole thing about the palm tree is highly speculative and part of a miraculous context (virgin birth) with too many unknowns to make a determination about the timing.

As you know, the word "qadr" means measure and does not mean equal. There is a big difference between measure and equal. Therefore, there is no evidence for the equinox based on the word "qadr". On the other hand, we clearly hear about qadr/measure in relation to the full-moon, which you agree is the start of the cycle:

And the moon we have measured it in descending stages until it becomes/returns as an old curved sheath (crescent shape)

Interestingly, the period from full-moon, when the measure of the "manazil" (descending stages) starts, until the crescent shape is 10 days. So this is in line with what you agreed to be the 10 days of hagg/feast and fasting.

It is a fact that the years cannot be counted using only day/night as described in 17:12 based on the equinox, which would only count half a year. The years can only be counted based on 17:12 using one of the solstices. As you correctly said, the meaning of "ramadan" points to the period after the summer solstice.

As far as hardship is concerned, had the fast been easy then there wouldn't have been the need to state that those who can do it with difficulty can feed a poor person instead. How many other things in the great reading are we told that they are so hard as to need to substitute? Obviously, fasting must be hard. If you do work in the open or live in northern elevations, you should feed the poor instead. The idea that fasting is obligatory comes from the Sunni tradition where we were constantly brainwashed that people who don't fast will go to hell. There is nothing in the great reading that says we must fast. It is better for us to fast if we can do it without difficulty but there is no harm or punishment if we don't fast. In fact, the main objective is not fasting but it is being guided by the great reading. The timing of the fast is tied to the timing of the great reading as a guidance descending and at the end of the passage we are told to magnify the god for what he has guided us. So being guided and knowing the timing based on the guidance from the god is far more important than fasting. If one fasts for 30 days according to the arbitrary Hijri calendar whether it is during the longest day hours or when it had shifted and is during the easiest time of the year in the winter is that person guided? Does their fast really matter or is it worthless? Let's focus on the right thing.

Peace and best regards,


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