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Discuss Latest World News / Women pray without hijab in mosque in Istanbul
« on: February 16, 2006, 05:54:53 AM »

As Edip also reported in his recent post  in Turkey obviously is  happening a lot which may encourage us.

I found this one today:

In Istanbul a mixed gender group was praying together side by side in the famous Subasi Mosque. Not only the between 30 and 40 men and women were praying together but also women didn?t wear hijab while praying. Amongst them was Beyza Zapsu, wife of C?neyd Zapsu adviser of Prime Minister Erdogan (remember: Erdogan is from the Islamic Party (!)).

One of the group stated: ?We don?t belong to any holy order and don?t have any kind of leader. Most of us are graduates from high school and speak at least two languages. We are sophisticated who consider Atat?rk (founder of the modern turkish state) as our paragon. Thats why the women pray without the hijab.?

Reactions in Turkey were quite moderate. The Mufti of Istanbul said that he doesn?t take this outlaws serious and that these prayers are not valid in the islamic sense.

It is quoted that Erdogan said to his advicer Zapsu: ?Why should this picture (of the wife of Zapsu praying without hijab) harm the party? Your wife hasn?t done anything wrong, she didn?t harm anybody.?

Here?s the link in German/Turkish. Searched long for it in English but couldn?t find it, sorry!

Maybe some fm members from Turky can tell us more about currents like this. And about the reaction of the population/media/politic.


Discuss Latest World News / Danish Cartoons about the Prophet Mohammed
« on: February 01, 2006, 02:28:26 PM »
Peace everyone

Here you can see the 12 cartoons published in a danish newspaper last September (!).

Al Jazeera Thursday 26 January 2006:
The (Saudi) government has recalled its ambassador in Copenhagen to express its regret and protest the position of the Danish government regarding a matter that has offended Islam and Muslims," a Saudi Foreign Ministry official said on Thursday.

Ambassador Muhammad al-Hujailan was recalled "for discussions", he said, requesting anonymity.

The cartoonist at the Danish Jyllands-Posten daily received death threats after it published 12 caricatures of the prophet of Islam in September.

The images were reprinted in a Norwegian magazine earlier this month, sparking uproar in the Muslim world. Muslims believe that any images of the prophet Muhammad are blasphemous.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen last month refused to agree to a meeting requested by 11 ambassadors of Muslim nations to discuss the controversy.

Rasmussen upheld freedom of expression as a fundamental human right but condemned any action "which tries to demonise certain groups due to their religious or ethnic background".

Arab foreign ministers in December lashed out at Copenhagen, expressing "surprise and indignation" at its reaction, while the International Union of Muslim Scholars threatened to urge a boycott of Danish and Norwegian products.


Danish food giant Arla Foods meanwhile said on Thursday it was being targeted by a boycott in Saudi Arabia because of the publication of the objectionable cartoons.

Arla Foods is Europe's second-largest dairy company and the leading Danish exporter to Saudi Arabia, where it sells an estimated two billion kroner ($328 million) worth of products every year.

"More and more supermarkets are taking our products off their shelves and don't want fresh supplies because consumers no longer want to buy our brand," Arla Foods spokesman Louis Honore told AFP.

"The situation is very serious."

Arla Foods sales staff had been summoned by major Saudi customers who were threatening to stop buying Arla butter and cheeses unless the Danish government officially apologised for the cartoons, he said.

October 2005:

A group of 16 Muslim organisations issued a statement on Wednesday demanding that Jyllands-Posten apologise for printing the drawings.

 "The newspaper has with its action deliberately stepped on Islam's ethical and moral values with the purpose of contempt and ridiculing Muslims' feelings, their holy sites and their religious symbols," the group said.
On 30 September, the Jyllands-Posten daily printed 12 drawings by Danish cartoonists who had been asked to illustrate the prophet.
Jyllands-Posten, citing the freedom of speech, said it would not apologise for printing the drawings.
The paper said that after printing the drawings it received several threats, which have been reported to the police.

Nearly 150,000 Muslims live in Denmark, representing 2.8% of the country's 5.4 million residents.

Now in these days there were many demonstrations from Muslims in Europe, America and the Middle East (Yemen 80.000 protestors!!) against these cartoons and asking for apalogies from the newspaper what they did in the meantime. Newspapers like "al sharq al awsat" draw lines to the denial of the holocaust which is forbidden but not making fun of the Prophet... .

I definitly don't like cartoons like that since I believe that artists should respect peoples' religious feelings. Maybe somebody of you has seen the film of that Dutch filmmaker  in which a naked women with suras of the quran written on her is seen. I don't like stuff like that at all 'cause it doesn't help nobody in any way and it has nothing to do with art of freedom of art.  BUT I also would like to see those masses of muslims on the streets when again dozens of innicent people died in the name of their Allah. It is also in our hand/in the hand of the muslims worldwide to change the image of the muslim world. And as long as they always keep silent on blind murders of innicents but showing their anger in thousands of faces worldwide because of a cartoon they are not believed to love peace as much as our prophet did.

What do you think?
Do you find the cartoons offensive?
Should the newspaper apologie for publishing it?
Should the author of the cartoons be punished as voices from the islamic world are demanding?
Is this freedom of speech/art and nothing can be done against it?


General Issues / Questions / Different Perspectives
« on: November 20, 2005, 04:07:23 AM »
Yesterday I found this at another forum. I thought it might be interesting to post here, too.

    What do you see?

I see only a young girl wearing a hat. But both of my kids see on old Grandma :lol: I know that others too see an old lady and they wonder a lot how a young girl can be seen, just as I still wonder how they see the old Lady  :lol:

So people see things what I am (yet) unable to see and the other way round.
This shows us how point of views may differ and that we should accept the others perspective even if we don't see it that way at all. Sometimes There are different ways to see something without one them being wrong. Just like the saying: there are many ways leading to Rome.


Marriage & Divorce / My divorce - need your help
« on: November 15, 2005, 03:02:27 PM »
My dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam
Salam Aleikum,

Since marriage with my husband was a very hard time for me and my kids I moved out with my kids two years ago and since then I live seperated from my him. I asked him again and again to give me divorce/talaaqa which he mostly refuses or remitting it again and again. As I don't see any future for us I definitly want to be divorced and went to the Sheick  of a mosque which gave me the feeling that he really is willing to help me. He said that it is haram to "not wanting the woman and not let her go".  I was told that I could bring 10 witnesses who swear that we are not living together since two years and then we can get divorced. Now I heard that this doesn't work because it is me who left him and took a new flat.
The fact that I left him seems to make problems now as I heard from others, too.

The Shaikh spoke to my husband and in the next coming days there shall be a meeting where all of us will talk about the subject. I'm afraid that my husband will tell him that he's such a poor nice hardworking man who just wants to be with his woman and kids and who did nothing wrong, and the Shaikh will believe him and he won't set me free.

I searched the Koran and found this: (taken from another fm thread)
?For those who wish to end the marriage with their wives, they must wait for four months. But if they retract, then God is Forgiving, Most Merciful.? (2:226)

?And if they insist on the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.? (2:227)

?And the divorced women shall hold themselves for three menstruation periods; and it is not lawful for them to conceal what God has created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And their husbands would then have just cause to return together, if they both wish to reconcile. And for what obligations the women are owed, so similarly must they fulfil their obligations. But the men will have a greater responsibility over them in this. And God is Noble, Wise.? (2:228)

?If the divorce is done a second time, then, either they remain together equitably, or they separate with kindness. And it is not lawful for you to take back anything you have given the women unless you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits. So if you fear that they will not uphold God?s limits, then there is no sin upon them for what is given back. These are God?s limits so do not transgress them. And whoever shall transgress God?s limits, then these are the wicked.? (2:229)

?So if he again divorces her, then she will not be lawful for him until she has married another husband. If the other husband divorces her, then there is no sin that they come back together if they think they will uphold God?s limits. These are God?s limits, He clarifies them for a people that know.? (2:230)

?And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then you should either remarry them equitably, or part-ways equitably. And do not remarry them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wickedness to his soul; and do not take God?s revelations lightly. And remember God?s blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of the Scripture and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things.? (2:231)

?And if you divorce the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then do not prevent them from remarrying their husbands if they amicably agree amongst themselves out of what is best. This is to remind any of you who believe in God and the Last Day, this is better for you and purer; and God knows while you do not know.? (2:232)

?O you who believe, if you marry the believing women, then divorced them before having intercourse with them, then there is no interim required of them. You shall compensate them, and let them go in an amicable manner.? (33:49)

?O you prophet, if any of you have divorced the women, then they should be divorced while ensuring that their required interim is fulfilled, and keep count of the interim. You shall reverence God your Lord, and do not evict the women from their homes, nor should they leave, unless they have committed a proven adultery. And these are God's limits. And anyone who transgresses God's limits has wronged his soul. You never know; perhaps God will make something come out of this.? (65:1)

?Then, once the interim is fulfilled, you may either remarry them equitably, or part-ways with them equitably; and you shall have this witnessed by two who are just from among you, and give the testimony for God. This is to enlighten those who believe in God and the Last Day. And whosoever reverences God, He will create a solution for him.? (65:2)

?And He will provide for him whence he never expected. Anyone who puts his trust in God, then He suffices him. God's commands will be done. God has decreed for everything its fate.? (65:3)

?As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. And as for those who?s menstruation has ceased, and those who are already pregnant, their interim is until they give birth. And anyone who reverences God, He makes his matters easy for him.? (65:4)

?This is God's command that He sends down to you. And anyone who is aware of God, He remits his sins, and will improve his reward.? (65:5)

?You shall leave them to reside in the home you were in when you were together, and do not coerce them to make them leave. And if they are pregnant, you shall spend on them until they give birth. Then, if they nurse the infant, you shall pay them their due for such. And you shall maintain the amicable relations between you. If you disagree, then another woman may nurse the child.? (65:6)

Here is a summary of the rules for divorce as obtained when arranging all similar verses:

- A waiting period of four months is imposed for the couple to reflect.
- Cancellation of the divorce proceedings may take place at any time during the 4-month waiting period.
- If the couple go-through with the divorce, then an interim is given to the wife of 3 menstruation periods during which she cannot marry another man (the interim is 3 months for those who no longer menopause, and until delivery for those who are pregnant). If the divorce has taken place before any sexual intercourse ever occurred, then the wife is not required any interim period.
- The wife may remain in her ex-husband?s home during the interim period (in the case of pregnancy, the ex-husband is also required to spend on her during the pregnancy).
- The couple may remarry at any time after the divorce if they wish so.
- If this is the 3rd consecutive divorce for the couple, then they may not remarry unless she has been married to another man and then they divorced each other.

what frightens me is things like: 2:228 which usually is understood as the men are superiour to the women and it is up to them to speak the final word.

Does anyone of you has good advice for me what I can tell both, husband and Shaick when I feel that they turn against me? Referring to the Quran, what may I say in order to become a free women so I can take my life into my own hands again? Anyone of you had the same/similar situation and can tell me about it?

It would be really a mess, if it will fail and I had to stay his wife against my will.

Thank you all

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Tafseer
« on: October 30, 2005, 02:20:30 AM »
Salam Aleikum

I would like to know: do you use Tafseer (Explanations to the Quran)?
If yes, which of it? And does it help you or do you mostly disagree with it?

I  think about getting one for me and wanted to see what you say about it.

Any post appreciated.


Discuss Latest World News / Anti-War Demonstrations in London and Washington
« on: September 24, 2005, 02:48:22 PM »
Salam all,

heard in the news that in Washington and London were huge demonstrations against the war in Irak. They say that in London it were about 100 000 demonstrators! Wow!

Somebody of you joined the demonstrations or knows more about it?

May peace come to Irak soon!


When hell existed on earth and hardly anybody did a thing against it. It seemed to be impossible to believe that people are able to do something like that: building up a huge camp to collect people from whole Europe, let some of them do slaverywork but kill 90% industrially. 1.5 Million people died in Auschwitz. It was only one of several deathcamps. Auschwitz is the  Holocaust/Shoa. Never before in human history happened something similar to that and never thereafter.  It is unique and is beyond all comparison.

We should never forget where blind hatred can lead to:,,2087-1452462,00.html

General Issues / Questions / Funeral
« on: January 09, 2005, 03:09:16 AM »

At islamic funerals practiced today women have to stay in the back and are not allowed to throw earth unto the dead or to see him once more.This  can be quite hard for the wife, daughter, sister.  Thus it may be that a (more or less) stranger stands in the first row while the closest female relative stands in the back.

Does anybody know why it is like this?  
As far as I know it doesn't say so in the Koran - or does it?

How is the procedure of islamic funerals?


Salat & Zakat (The Contact & Purification) / Praying with the Hijab
« on: December 12, 2004, 07:08:47 PM »
Salam Aleikum

Can anybody please tell me where it says in the Quran that women have to cover their head when praying?
I searched the Site and Forum for it but didn`t find anything.

Thanks in advance

Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan. / Shiny Ramadan Cards
« on: October 17, 2004, 09:00:40 AM »
Who wants to get a nice shiny wild coloured noisy flashy Ramadan Greeting Card? :lol:

Go ahead :wink:

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