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Topics - Recluse

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Quranic Divinity / Allah stoning devils with stars?
« on: May 15, 2016, 10:10:59 AM »

I was just wondering how many of our members here believe that Allah is stoning the devils with stars to prevent them from stealing secret information from the angels?

[67:5 - Surah Al-Mulk]

"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

[37:6-9 - Surah As-Saffat]

"Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars. And as protection against every rebellious devil. [So] they may not listen to the exalted assembly [of angels] and are pelted from every side, Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment."

Women Pummel Clerics, Moderates Whip Hardliners in Iran?s Historic Election

The Islamic Republic of Iran continues its political sea change toward secular reform and gender diversity

On Saturday, official election results showed stunning gains for women and reform-minded politicians in the Islamic Republic of Iran, with women outnumbering clerics for the first time in the country?s parliament. After the second round of elections, a record 17 women will become lawmakers in the 290-seat parliament?one more than the number of clerics, a group which has reached an all-time low.

Overall, the country is creeping toward moderation, with allies of President Hassan Rouhani scoring victories throughout the country in parliamentary elections. Rouhani?s moderate coalition now outnumbers the country?s avowed Islamist hardliners for the first time since 2004, signaling a populist sea change in the political makeup of the country.

Official results show President Rouhani?s reformist coalition making up 133 members of the parliament with conservatives holding on to 125 seats. The remaining MPs belong to independent and minority parties expected to align with Rouhani to form a coalition government.

The decline of Islamic clerics, to 16, demonstrates that the Islamic revolution in 1979 is a distant memory. In the first parliament following the revolution there were 164 clerics elected. The number of clerics has fallen steadily since 1980, with 153 elected in the 2nd parliament, 85 in the 3rd, 67 in the 4th, 52 in the 5th, and 27 in the outgoing 6th legislature.

Despite the reduction in the number of clerics, the country continues to be under the conservative grip of the Supreme Leader Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei. The Ayatollah in recent years has shown a willingness for the country to incrementally shift toward a more moderate government.

In November, the Ayatollah rebranded the marching call "death to America" as opposition to Western policy hegemony, rather than a call for overt conflict. Yet, with the reformist movement quickly gaining traction, the Ayatollah has taken steps to reassert conservative control, with recent crackdowns and jailing of reform-minded journalists.

The general trend toward gender inclusion, reform and moderation continues with this week?s electoral success, but whether the Iranian ruling regime will allow the progression to continue, or whether secular advances have reached a tipping point, remains to be seen.

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Quranic Divinity / Who was the first Muslim?
« on: April 25, 2016, 05:18:10 PM »
There are contradictions in the Qur'an as to who was the "first Muslim".

According to Al-An'am 163, the first Muslim was prophet Muhammad.

According to Al-A'raf 143, the first Muslim was prophet Moses.

According to Ali Imran 67, the first Muslim was Abraham

Second problem;

What about Adam, Noah, Idris who lived in much earlier times, weren't they also Muslims?

Here are the three relevant verses;


"No partner has He. And this I have been commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims."

(According to this verse prophet Muhammed was the first Muslim)


"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [ Allah ] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

(According to this verse prophet Moses was the first Muslim)


"Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists.

(According to this verse Abraham was the first Muslim)


What do people make of this verse;

"Allah says: ?Whatever of good befalls you, it is from Allah; and whatever of ill befalls you, it is from yourself.? [S?rah al-Nis??: 79]

First, what is good and what is bad?

Second, obviously not all bad things happen because of ourselves; a baby can get cancer or something similar through no fault of its own, nor through any fault of its parents... or somebody can attack you while walking on the street through no fault of your own. We could come up with millions of examples of bad things happening to good people, and good things happening to bad people. There are many bad people on earth who live a very good life without too many bad things happening to them, and there are also many good people who are living horrible lives through no fault of their own....

I notice so many obvious contradictions in the Qur'an, it blows my mind away. I've seen so many verses where one thing is being said in one verse, and then in some other verse it suddenly says the exact opposite... but I don't want to mention them here in this topic.. maybe later..

Discuss Latest World News / Turkey becomes Saudi Arabia...
« on: April 19, 2016, 04:18:40 PM »
I can't believe this, but unfortunately it's true. I saw it on youtube with my own eyes.

A few days ago on a tv program on Turkish state channel TRT, a typical ugly and bearded imam/mullah, with a perfectly straight face, said that those who don't pray (salat or namaz in Turkish) deserve to be killed....

How can this be shown on (state) television in the 21st century. How can people in such countries tolerate this, as if it's just someone's innocent opinion? If something truly outrageous like this can happen in "modern and secular" Turkey, I don't want to know what kind of things are happening in Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan or Sudan?  :&

Now I'm absolutely convinced that there is no difference between ISIS and hundreds of millions of "ordinary" Muslims. They have the exact same mindset; whenever they take over power in a country, they will immediately start killing not only apostates, but everyone who doesn't fast, performs rituals, and all those who dare to criticize their king/ ruler/caliph/sultan etc.  etc.

We have to be honest with ourselves, what does Islam bring but oppression, death and destruction?

What is the nature of God? / Big Bang, God and Pantheism
« on: April 12, 2016, 04:05:24 PM »
Peace to all,

I've seen older posts by some of our members who argued that God is fully part of this universe...

OK, but what about the Big Bang? Prior to the Big Bang there was no universe, no matter, no atoms...

Does that mean God didn't exist either before the Big Bang took place, or is my understanding of the Big Bang flawed????

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Eternal Hell ands the morality of God
« on: August 11, 2015, 07:29:57 PM »
Do any of you seriously believe that the billions of Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews and others will go to Hell?

If you were born in China, you would have been a Buddhist too. About 97% of all religious people adhere to the faith of their parents or country of birth.  Can you believe in an immoral, unjust, violent and psychopathic God who doesn't take that into consideration?

I don't.. I believe in the end the issue is about good people vs bad people. I no longer take the Qur'an literally, the language and rhetoric of the Qur'an is clearly directed at the mindset of the Arabs of 1400 years ago and in their own cultural context. I also don't believe that all the verses of the Qur'an are universal but that's another topic.

Christianity/Judaism/Others / Were the Torah and Bible altered?
« on: January 19, 2015, 06:09:26 PM »
Where do Muslims get this idea that the Torah and Bible were altered/corrupted by humans, I don't see it being mentioned in the Qur'an?

I forgot his name but I've heard this is the claim of only one particular Muslim "scholar" of the past and that there is no evidence for this claim whatsoever?

Christianity/Judaism/Others / Reformist/Modernist Christians and Jews?
« on: January 19, 2015, 05:39:16 PM »

I want to know more about reformist/modernist movements in Christianity and Judaism.

I assume there are also Christians and Jews who have similar views about their religions as Qur'an only" Muslims do?

I would like to buy books by Jewish and Christian authors who have a similar view of their religion as we do about Islam.

Could anyone help me, do you know any good books?

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Do you take the Qur'an literally?
« on: January 04, 2015, 12:34:54 AM »

I've come to the conclusion that the Qur'an as a whole cannot be taken literally, this would simply be impossible and irrational.

Anyone who reads the Qur'an carefully will clearly see that there are plenty of verses that were only relevant to the conditions of the Arabs of Arabia at the time. There is actually no person on earth, no country on earth, and no organization on earth that follows the entire Qur'an literally. Even those who think they do. But if you tell any Muslim that there are verses that are NOT universal or verses that should NOT be taken LITERALLY they go berserk...

The Qur'an is not an encyclopedia, not "everything" can be find in the Qur'an. And it's not a book of law or economics or anything similar that we could easily apply in our life. The Qur'an was one of God's "interventions" in human history in a particular region in a particular time in history. Sure, there are beautiful universal messages as well, but to believe that the entire Qur'an can be taken literally and applied at any time in any region on earth is insanity. We can and should only be inspired by the Qur'an...

Your thoughts? What does the "Qur'an" mean to you?

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