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Christianity/Judaism/Others / What is Shirk - Polytheism
« on: April 02, 2017, 03:14:47 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPqtGywkCw

Please watch this lecture. Very important for Quranist. Plus see some creation stories to get understanding of Shirk theology. Verses of Quran concerning Shirk will now seem easy to comprehend .

Aboriginal Creation story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koxp_q46z0Q

Ancient Egyptian Creation story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTy49JlgJZE

Babylonian Creation story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta3XER76iGI

Greek Creation story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a3VJVrZOlU

It is all about "In the beginning there was....."


Good luck to all

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After 9-11 there has been various debates about Islam. Some have said that the terrorist are Islam's true spoken. The so called moderates practice taqiya. Taqiya is the deliberate lying for the faith. They say Islam is a violent religion that commands Muslims to kill non Muslim. Non Muslims have 3 choices, either they convert, pay the jizya(tax) or die. They say Muhammad was peaceful for PR reasons and once strong showed his true colors and preached violent jihad. They say all the peaceful verses were abrogated after his final victory with this verse:

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

And also this verse:

9.29. Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

This verses are chosen for a reason. When read alone it implies a command to attack until they convert. Of course there are other verses in the Koran that talks about fighting. But why do they tend to focus on this one? Its simple, the other verses tend to show the defensive nature of the jihad and also the malicious intent and behavior of the pagans. Thus never cited. Lets look at some of them:

2.190. Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors

2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith

2.193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God, but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression

Also:

2.217. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

All these verses talks about fighting, however within these verses the defensive nature of the verses and the malicious behavior of the pagans is cited. Thus those who wish to attack Islam never cite those verses. Its a deliberate attempt to hide what the Koran as saying and using selective verses to imply what they know the verses does not mean.

Lets however look at the verse that is often cited. This time we will take the verses before and after it to see what is the context this verse is talking.

9.4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. 7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.


Also in the same chapter it explains the reason behind all of these battles fought

9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!


The verses clearly indicate that no forced conversion was there.There are standards that the Koran established for fighting.

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth . As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ?Our Lord is God.? 22:39-40

These verses show us clearly that the battles the believers fought was purely for defensive purposes as the believers were being persecuted because they believed in the teachings of the Quran. The pagans wanted the Quran to cease to exist and wanted the prophet and his followers to perish. This is why freedom of religion in the Quran is sacrosanct. The Koran more than any other literature guaranteed the absolute right for freedom of belief and expression and thought.


The Koran makes clear the job of the prophet:

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it??

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

But most of all the Koran asks the prophet himself this question:

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

Then again the Quran tells us:

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine

There is nothing even called conquest in the Koran and there is nothing called paying taxes and offensive war and spreading faith by the sword are not Koranic whatsoever and is a direct disobedience to the orders of the Koran. Jizya in the Quran came when the believers were entering Mecca where they were forced into exile and left their homeland losing their livlihoods, homes and businesses. Jizya was never mentioned except upon the pagans of Mecca. Jizya was a war reparation and compensation for damages. The prophet was in Medina where many non believers lived under his domain but was never ordered to seek Jizya. Later Muslim authorities applied Jizya to anyone living under a Muslim ruler who are not Muslims as a form of tax. This is not the context it appears in the Quran.

So the Sunni/Shia concept that peaceful verses were abrogated by later verses that moved from defensive war to offensive has no backing from the Quran. This is because the permission allowed to fight has been outlined in the Quran. Only when provoked and forced should we fight. The prophet was a victim of religious coercion and persecution for religious propagation.

?The contemporary Islamic al-Azhar influential scholar, Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti, says in his well-known research: ?The verse (9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war which is demanded in Islamic law is not a defensive war, because it could legitimately be an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all Holy wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of Allah and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of Allah?s kingdom on Earth regardless the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive Holy War.? ?

?Al-Suyuti does not see 2:256 abrogated by 9:73, but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels until the Muslims become strong. When they were weak, they were commanded to endure and be patient. The first verse that was revealed in the Qur?an about fighting in Medina is Surah 2 verse 190, until Surah 9 was revealed, and it was cancelled by Surah 9 verse 5. ?

So we can see how the Islamic sects abrogated many the defensive war verses claiming verse 9.5 abrogated the defensive war only verses and changed it to offensive war. They believe in this due to the following hadith recorded in Bukhari's and Muslim's collections. Hadiths were compiled two centuries after the Quran was revealed.

Ibn ?Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, ?I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.? (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)?

This hadith violates tens of Quranic commands about freedom and defensive war.


In the Quran we see the concept of religious persecution was a hallmark of pagan societies and oppressive tyrants.

They said: "O Shuayb! Much of what thou sayest we do not understand! In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength! Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! For thou hast among us no great position!" 11:91

(The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee : now get away from me for a good long while!" .19:46

The (people) said: "For us, We augur an evil omen from you: if ye desist not, we will certainly stone you , or a grievous punishment indeed will be inflicted on you by us." 36:18

They said: "If thou desist not, O Noah! thou shalt be stoned. 26.116

Pharaoh said, "Did you believe in him without my permission? This must be a conspiracy you schemed in the city, in order to take its people away. You will surely find out. "I will cut your hands and feet on alternate sides, then I will crucify you all." 7.123-124

All of these verses tell us how the prophets were persecuted for their religious propogation. The prophet of the Quran met the same fate. He was ordered to fight back and to complete the message of the Quran. But he was also ordered to limit his duty to preaching. If the people decide on him to judge between them than he is to do with justice.

Quran is peace

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Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi made international headlines earlier this year for calling for a reformation of Islam, but his government is proving itself less than willing to embrace Islamic reformists at home. Perhaps nothing has made this resistance more clear than the government-sanctioned campaign against Islam El-Beheiry, an Islamic scholar who made a name for himself on Egyptian airwaves for questioning the teachings of hardline preachers and encouraging a more critical approach to foundational Islamic texts.

On Saturday, an Egyptian court sentenced El-Beheiry to five years in prison on charges of contempt of religion, after the scholar was accused of blasphemy by the state-backed religious institution al-Azhar, the most prominent Sunni religious authority in the Muslim world. El-Beheiry?s sentencing follows the April cancellation of his religious talk show ?With Islam,? which was pulled off the air by a privately-owned satellite channel at the request of Azhar Grand Sheikh Ahmed al-Tayyeb.

The court ruling is representative of the sort of challenges that reformers like El-Beheiry face in Egypt, according to Egyptian author and journalist Hany Ghoraba. ?El-Beheiry represents a new generation of religious reformers outside the clergy and religious caste,? Ghoraba wrote in a commentary published Monday. ?His bold and unorthodox methods have gained him millions of supporters and many other enemies.? Among these enemies are the old guard of al-Azhar, which Ghoraba argued have been engaged in a campaign of character assassination against El-Beheiry since his rise to prominence.

The Islamic scholar has sparked debate since his show began airing in July 2013. El-Beheiry regularly featured clips of ultraconservative Salafi preachers, using them as a basis for dismantling long-held religious assumptions, including around hot-button issues like women?s rights and penalties for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.

http://www.ibtimes.com/sisi-islam-reform-blasphemy-case-against-reformist-islam-el-beheiry-undercuts-1947460


He said the 4 Imams of Sunni Islam are worst than ISIS and called Hadith science garbage. His show is in Arabic and its hard hitting.

https://www.youtube.com/user/IslamBehery

4

This is for all you newbees here. Very good lecture about polytheism and its theology and commonalities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPqtGywkCw

Also i have done some searching about this subject also. It covers various polytheistic traditions in history and their creation stories.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603937.0


6
I am writing this because too often we are asked by Sunnis and Shias the recurring question of "how do you guys know how to pray from Quran"? Where does it tells us how to pray in the Quran? And so on.

However what many do not know is that the obligation of 5 salaat and the prostration rituals (rika's) were established in Sunni Islam in the so called night journey (isra wal miraj) where the story is that Muhammad ascended to heaven on that night and met Gabriel and the 5 salat was established then and Gabriel also taught the prophet how to pray and how many prostration to perform and so on.

So the question is how do Sunni sources answer the question of how the prophet and the believers prayed before that if they prayed at all. We are looking at a time frame of more than 10 years when the prophet and believers were in Mecca since the night journey occurred after the migration (hijra).

Question asked.


145725: When was prayer made obligatory? How did the Muslims pray before prayer was made obligatory?

Is it true that prayer was made obligatory before the night of the Isra?? Did the Messenger pray in the manner that we pray now, with the same number of rak?ahs? When was prayer made obligatory at these times and in the manner that we pray now?
Praise be to Allah.

Al-Bukhaari (349) and Muslim (162) narrated from Anas ibn Maalik (may Allah be pleased with him) the famous hadeeth of the Isra? (Prophet?s Night Journey) in which it is reported that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said:

?Then Allah revealed what He revealed to me, and enjoined fifty prayers on me every day and night. I came back down to Moosa (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and he said: What did your Lord enjoin upon your ummah? I said: Fifty prayers. He said: Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce it... I kept going back and forth between my Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, and Moosa (peace be upon him), until He said: ?O Muhammad, they are five prayers each day and night, for every prayer there will be a tenfold (reward), and that is fifty prayers.?

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the five daily prayers were not made obligatory until this night. See the answer to question no. 143111

See also Fath al-Baari by Ibn Rajab (2/104).

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

On the night of the Isra?, one and a half years before the Hijrah, Allah enjoined upon His Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the five daily prayers, and explained that there were conditions and essential parts and other matters having to do with them, bit by bit.

Tafseer Ibn Katheer (7/164).

Then Jibreel (peace be upon him) came down and taught the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the times of the prayers:

Al-Bukhaari (522) and Muslim (611) narrated from Ibn Shihaab that ?Umar ibn ?Abd al-?Azeez delayed the prayer one day. ?Urwah ibn az-Zubayr entered upon him and told him that al-Mugheerah ibn Shu?bah delayed the prayer one day when he was in Kufah, and Abu Mas?ood al-Ansaari entered upon him and said: What is this, O Mugheerah? Do you not know that Jibreel came down and prayed, and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) prayed, then he prayed and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) prayed, then he prayed and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) prayed, then he prayed and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) prayed, then he prayed and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) prayed. Then he said: This is what has been enjoined upon me. ?Umar said to ?Urwah: Think what you are narrating, O ?Urwah! Is Jibreel the one who taught the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the times of the prayers? ?Urwah said: That is what Basheer ibn Abi Mas?ood used to narrate from his father.

An-Nasaa?i (526) narrated that Jaabir ibn ?Abdullah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) when the sun had passed its zenith and said: Get up, O Muhammad. That was when the sun had passed the meridian. Then he waited until the (length of) a man?s shadow was equal to his height, then he came to him for ?Asr and said: Get up, O Muhammad, and pray ?Asr. Then he waited until the sun set, then he came to him and said: Get up and pray Maghrib. So he got up and prayed it when the sun had set fully. Then he waited until the twilight had disappeared, then he came and said: Get up and pray ?Isha?, so he got up and prayed it? In this hadeeth it says: He (i.e., Jibreel) said: The period between two of these two times is the time to pray.

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh an-Nasaa?i.

?Abd ar-Razzaaq narrated in his Musannaf (1773) and Ibn Ishaaq narrated in his Seerah ? as it says in Fath al-Baari (2/286) ? that this happened on the morning after the night in which prayer was made obligatory.

Al-Qurtubi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

(The scholars) did not differ concerning the fact that Jibreel (peace be upon him) came down on the morning following the night of the Isra?, when the sun passed its zenith, and taught the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) the prayer and its timings. End quote.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

Jibreel?s explanation of the timings of the prayer came on the morning following the night of the Isra?. End quote.

Sharh al-?Umdah (4/148)

When the five daily prayers were first made obligatory, each prayer was two rak?ahs, then after the Hijrah, that was confirmed in the case of travel, and two rak?ahs were added for those who are not travelling, except Maghrib, which remained as it was. Al-Bukhaari (3935) and Muslim (685) narrated that ?Aa?ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) said: Prayer was enjoined with two rak?ahs, then when the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) migrated, it was enjoined with four rak?ahs, but prayer whilst travelling remained as it had originally been.

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his Companions used to pray before the five daily prayers were made obligatory.

It says in al-Mawsoo?ah al-Fiqhiyyah (27/52-53):

Prayer was originally enjoined in Makkah at the beginning of Islam, because there are Makkan verses that were revealed at the beginning of the Prophet?s mission that encourage praying. As for the five daily prayers in the form that is well-known, they were made obligatory on the night of the Isra? and Mi?raaj. End quote.

See also the answer to question no. 143111

Some of the scholars are of the view that prayer was made obligatory at the beginning, two rak?ahs in the morning and two rak?ahs in the afternoon.

Al-Haafiz (may Allah have mercy on him) said in al-Fath:

A number of scholars are of the view that before the Isra? there was no obligatory prescribed prayer, but prayers were offered at night, without any number of rak?ahs being specified. Al-Harbi was of the view that prayer was made obligatory, two rak?ahs in the morning and two rak?ahs in the afternoon. Ash-Shaafa?i narrated from some of the scholars that prayer at night was obligatory, then it was abrogated by the verse (interpretation of the meaning): ?So, recite you of the Quran as much as may be easy for you? [al-Muzammil 73:20]. So it became obligatory to pray for part of the night. Then that was abrogated by the five daily prayers. End quote.

He also said:

Before the Isra?, the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) definitely used to pray, as did his companions, but there is a scholarly difference of opinion as to whether any kind of prayer was made obligatory before the five daily prayers or not. It was said that what was obligatory at first was prayer before sunrise and prayer before sunset. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): ?and glorify the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting? [Ta-Ha 20:130], and similar verses. End quote.

See also Tafseer Ibn ?Atiyyah (1/204); at-Tahreer wa?t-Tanweer by Ibn ?Ashoor (24/75).

And Allah knows best.


http://islamqa.info/en/145725



So while they try to explain how they prayed before that and the confusion in their answer what they are saying really is there was no standard way of praying and everybody basically established their own prayers. Basically they prayed like Quranist did and did not need to know how to pray but established their own routine and methods. They were basically praying like Quranist.

This highlights Sunni hypocrisy where they ask us such question but fail to realize that nearly all Quranist understand praying the way the prophet and early Muslims understood it according to their own sources.

7
These are some of the hadiths that inspires ISIS, Shabab, Boko Haram and other so called Jihadi groups.


On the authority of `Abdullah ibn `Abbas that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "If you find anybody committing the act of the People of Lot (i.e. sodomy), then kill the one doing it and the one with whom it is done." This hadith is recorded by Imam Ahmad, Imam Abu Dawud, and Imam At-Tirmidhi among others.


Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah." Bukhari   

Narrated Aisha: No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man called her name: Where is so-and-so? She said: I I asked: What is the matter with you? She said: I did a new act. She said: The man took her and beheaded her. She said: I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she knew that she would be killed. Abu Dawood

:Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair. Abu Dawood

Narrated Ibn Umar: Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina. Bukhari

"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).' Awf ibn Malik is the only one who reported this Hadith, and its isnad is acceptable." And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, "...Are those who follow my and my Sahaba's path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)


Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ?Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ?Abbas who said, ?If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah?s Apostle forbade it, saying, ?Do not punish anybody with Allah?s punishment (fire).? I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah?s Apostle, ?Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him. Bukhari

Allah's Apostle sent us in a mission (i.e. am army-unit) and said, "If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire." When we intended to depart, Allah's Apostle said, "I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, kill them." Bukhari

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have." Bukhari

Abu Musa said, ?I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash?ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah?s Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak ), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, ?O Abu Musa (O ?Abdullah bin Qais!).? I said, ?By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.? As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, ?We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or ?Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.?? The Prophet then sent Mu?adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu?adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu?adh asked, ?Who is this (man)?? Abu Muisa said, ?He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.? Then Abu Muisa requested Mu?adh to sit down but Mu?adh said, ?I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, ?Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, ?I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.?? Bukhari

Some people from the tribe of ?Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die. Bukhari

Imam Shafi, may Allah have mercy upon him, said the Imam [supreme leader of the Muslims] is given the choice of killing the prisoners, showing them mercy, ransoming them or keeping them in bondage. This issue has been confirmed and has been proven in our book 'Al Ahkam.' (Tafsir of the Qur'an by Ibn Kathir [1])

According to the Qur'an a woman who has been captured by force falls in the category of a slave girl (kaniz). And because the Qur'an confines the use of force to the fighting (qital) in the way of God, thus according to the Qur'an a slave girl is that woman who falls in the hands of Muslims as a prisoner during the course of war waged in the way of God. (Maulana Maududi, Rasa'il wa Masa'il 3rd edition, Vol. III, p.102).


Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: Ikrimah reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas, saying: I think the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw. ( Bukhari )

'Umar b. Muhammad b. Zaid reported that he heard his father narrating from Ibn 'Umar that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had said. If bad luck is a fact, then it is in the horse, the woman and the house. (Bukhari)




As can be seen these hadiths are part of the Sunni doctrine which explains why the Islamic authorities are not able to stop them. They follow the same Islam.


Quranic Law Versus Shariah Law - Two different Islams    http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=20739

8
Just wondering if any of you witnessed any change in Muslims with the arrival of the these new groups like Boko Haram and ISIS and all this sectarian conflicts. Could many Muslims now be questioning their faith or even abandoning Islam all together? I wonder if this will support our cause or we might actually fall from grace from it.

I am asking this because a few years ago a person commenting on Quranist had this to say:

What do you get when you take out all faith from Islam and replace it with a cold rational materialism? You get a new brand of "Muslim" who calls himself a "Quran Aloner".... Granted not all of them are the same, and many are not as extreme as others, but one thing is certain: these are the people who will totally change the Islamic landscape within a century. This much is clear to me.

This might sound like dialectics (its not) but a counterpart to the rightist Taliban has arisen in the extreme secular left. These are the people who will take over the Muslim world (FOX News was wrong, it won't be Osama bin Laden). These "Quran Aloners" are a very small and fragmented minority today, mostly in the middle to upper classes. But they contain all the characteristics that a future mainstream movement needs to have and become the dominant Muslim denomination of the future. And all the work that the radical conservative Muslims are doing is directly contributing to their rise.

Their principles are diverse, but they have a few common beliefs. Almost all of them reject the "5 prayers" scheme. Some only accept 3, some reject the prayer totally, saying it was never meant to be an actual ritual. They also reject the significance of Mecca, and refuse to face it. Some of them believe that everything that takes place in Mecca is pagan idolatry.

These beliefs may sound very far fetched and crazy to the mainstream Muslims today, but it is very clear to me that that these beliefs will become the mainstream views within the Muslim ummah. It happened with Rome, with Christianity, it happened again with the Reformation. And the same will happen in the Muslim world... It is the same pattern with every new religion. If it attracts the middle-to-upper classes at first, you can bet it will keep expanding until it is the dominant force. There are no statistics, but I bet they are adding at least 40% new members per decade, just as the LDS Church. Such a growth, while it seems small at first, is exponential.

I don't really have much in common with mainstream Muslim sects either.. most of the time I am disagreeing with their beliefs... but this group of "Quran Aloners".... this is something completely different. Some of these people can hardly be considered Muslims at all, as some of them don't even believe in the finality of revelation, and feel that the Quran is "incomplete"... In my book, these people are much more dangerous then the Taliban, because their beliefs are much more attractive for the majority. Theirs will be a silent revolution, without weapons, without beheading... And all the conservative Wahabi Taliban types are only making it easier for them, because it is -Islam- which is being put on the chopping block because of their actions.

... This is inevitable. There is no way to stop this... Many Muslims will convert to their side in the coming decades. Anyone in fact who values a self-negating "rationality" above faith will join their ranks. Maybe another war, or two, is all that is needed for a major shift in ideology to take place.. and when the time comes, these people will be waiting to step up and offer their "solution": a complete reformation of Islam, stripped of all faith... Setting the stage for a slow evaporation and drift towards a total materialistic atheism in the Muslim world....

I say this is inevitable, because this time, unlike the time of the Mutazillites, there are no core battalions left in the Muslim world to hold back this tide of skepticism... Too much faith has eroded over the centuries... There are not going to be any more al-Thalabis or al-Ghazalis, this time... they will win.


End quote

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/this-is-how-islam-will-11195.html


What was concerning me is his analysis about the ideological shift that will occur.

Maybe another war, or two, is all that is needed for a major shift in ideology to take place.. and when the time comes, these people will be waiting to step up and offer their "solution"

I wonder if we are seeing this shift take place or is it too soon to tell. But events do seem to be going exactly like how he predicted but seems a lost sooner than he imagined.


9
After 9-11 there has been various debates about Islam. Some have said that the terrorist are Islam's true spoken. The so called moderates practice taqiya. Taqiya is the deliberate lying for the faith. They say Islam is a violent religion that commands Muslims to kill non Muslim. Non Muslims have 3 choices, either they convert, pay the jizya(tax) or die. They say Muhammad was peaceful for PR reasons and once strong showed his true colors and preached violent jihad. They say all the peaceful verses were abrogated after his final victory with this verse:

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

And also this verse:

9.29. Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

This verses are chosen for a reason. When read alone it implies a command to attack until they convert. Of course there are other verses in the Koran that talks about fighting. But why do they tend to focus on this one? Its simple, the other verses tend to show the defensive nature of the jihad and also the malicious intent and behavior of the pagans. Thus never cited. Lets look at some of them:

2.190. Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors

2.191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith

2.193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God, but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression

Also:

2.217. They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offense); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

All these verses talks about fighting, however within these verses the defensive nature of the verses and the malicious behavior of the pagans is cited. Thus those who wish to attack Islam never cite those verses. Its a deliberate attempt to hide what the Koran as saying and using selective verses to imply what they know the verses does not mean.

Lets however look at the verse that is often cited. This time we will take the verses before and after it to see what is the context this verse is talking.

9.4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.

9.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. 7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.


Also in the same chapter it explains the reason behind all of these battles fought

9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!


The verses clearly indicate that no forced conversion was there.There are standards that the Koran established for fighting.

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth . As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ?Our Lord is God.? 22:39-40

These verses show us clearly that the battles the believers fought was purely for defensive purposes as the believers were being persecuted because they believed in the teachings of the Quran. The pagans wanted the Quran to cease to exist and wanted the prophet and his followers to perish. This is why freedom of religion in the Quran is sacrosanct. The Koran more than any other literature guaranteed the absolute right for freedom of belief and expression and thought.


The Koran makes clear the job of the prophet:

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it??

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

But most of all the Koran asks the prophet himself this question:

10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand

Then again the Quran tells us:

109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine

There is nothing even called conquest in the Koran and there is nothing called paying taxes and offensive war and spreading faith by the sword are not Koranic whatsoever and is a direct disobedience to the orders of the Koran. Jizya in the Quran came when the believers were entering Mecca where they were forced into exile and left their homeland losing their livelihoods, homes and businesses. Jizya was never mentioned except upon the pagans of Mecca. Jizya was a war reparation and compensation for damages. The prophet was in Medina where many non believers lived under his domain but was never ordered to seek Jizya. Later Muslim authorities applied Jizya to anyone living under a Muslim ruler who are not Muslims as a form of tax. This is not the context it appears in the Quran.




The Arabic term jizya appears in verse Quran 9:29, but the Qur'an does not specify jizya as a tax per head. According to Paul Heck, the jizya taxation seems to be a developed form of the Sassanian practice of taxation.[10]
 
Commentators disagree on the definition and derivation of the word jizya:
 Shakir and Khalifa's English translations of the Qur'an render jizya as "tax", while Pickthal translates it as "tribute". Yusuf Ali prefers to transliterate the term as jizyah.
 Yusuf Ali states "The derived meaning, which became the technical meaning, was a poll tax levied from those who did not accept Islam, but were willing to live under the protection of Islam, and were thus tacitly willing to submit to the laws enforced by the Muslim State."[11]
 Monqiz As-Saqqar attributes the word jizya to the root word jaza meaning "compensate" and defines it as "a sum of money given in return for protection".[12]
 Ibn Al-Mutaraz derives the word from 'idjz?, meaning "substitute" or "sufficiency" because "it suffices as a substitute for the dhimmi's embracement of Islam."[12]
 Yusuf al-Qaradawi says the word jizya is derived from the jazaa', meaning "reward", "return", or "compensation", and defines it as "a payment by the non-Muslim according to an agreement signed with the Muslim state".[13]
 Edward William Lane, in An Arabic-English Lexicon defines jizya as a "tax that is taken from the free non-Muslim subjects of a Muslim government whereby they ratify the compact that assures them protection.[14]
 Ibn Rushd explains that jizya is in fact a broader concept than just a head-tax. It also includes monies exacted in times of war ? what is normally understood in English by the word ?tribute? ? as well as levies (?ushr) on non-muslim merchants who are trading in the Dar al-Harb.[15]
 
In practice, the word is applied to a special type of tax, levied upon the non-Muslim adult males living under an Islamic state.
 
After the Norman conquest of Sicily, taxes imposed on the Muslim minority were also called the "jizya"
.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya


Abrogation in Sunni/Shia Islam



?The contemporary Islamic al-Azhar influential scholar, Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti, says in his well-known research: ?The verse (9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that holy war which is demanded in Islamic law is not a defensive war, because it could legitimately be an offensive war. That is the apex and most honorable of all Holy wars. Its goal is the exaltation of the word of Allah and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of Allah?s kingdom on Earth regardless the means. It is legal to carry on an offensive Holy War.? ?

?Al-Suyuti does not see 2:256 abrogated by 9:73, but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels until the Muslims become strong. When they were weak, they were commanded to endure and be patient. The first verse that was revealed in the Qur?an about fighting in Medina is Surah 2 verse 190, until Surah 9 was revealed, and it was cancelled by Surah 9 verse 5. ?





So the Sunni/Shia concept that peaceful verses were abrogated by later verses that moved from defensive war to offensive has no backing from the Quran. This is because the permission allowed to fight has been outlined in the Quran. Only when provoked and forced should we fight. The prophet was a victim of religious coercion and persecution for religious propagation.

So we can see how the Islamic sects abrogated many the defensive war verses claiming verse 9.5 abrogated the defensive war only verses and changed it to offensive war. They believe in this due to the following hadith recorded in Bukhari's and Muslim's collections. Hadiths were compiled two centuries after the Quran was revealed.

Ibn ?Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, ?I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.? (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)?

This hadith violates tens of Quranic commands about freedom and defensive war.


In the Quran we see the concept of religious persecution was a hallmark of pagan societies and oppressive tyrants.

They said: "O Shuayb! Much of what thou sayest we do not understand! In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength! Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! For thou hast among us no great position!" 11:91

(The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods, O Abraham? If thou forbear not, I will indeed stone thee : now get away from me for a good long while!" .19:46

The (people) said: "For us, We augur an evil omen from you: if ye desist not, we will certainly stone you , or a grievous punishment indeed will be inflicted on you by us." 36:18

They said: "If thou desist not, O Noah! thou shalt be stoned. 26.116

Pharaoh said, "Did you believe in him without my permission? This must be a conspiracy you schemed in the city, in order to take its people away. You will surely find out. "I will cut your hands and feet on alternate sides, then I will crucify you all." 7.123-124

All of these verses tell us how the prophets were persecuted for their religious propogation. The prophet of the Quran met the same fate. He was ordered to fight back and to complete the message of the Quran. But he was also ordered to limit his duty to preaching. If the people decide on him to judge between them than he is to do with justice.

Quran is peace

10
 :brickwall:


(CNN) -- A Christian woman in Sudan reportedly has until Thursday to either recant her faith or face a possible sentence of death.

Meriam Yehya Ibrahim, 27, was convicted by a Khartoum court this week of apostasy, or the renunciation of faith, Amnesty International said Wednesday, a day before the expected ruling. The court considers her to be Muslim.

According to the rights group, she was also convicted of adultery because her marriage to a Christian man was considered void under Sharia law.

"The fact that a woman could be sentenced to death for her religious choice, and to flogging for being married to a man of an allegedly different religion, is abhorrent and should never be even considered," Manar Idriss, Amnesty International's Sudan researcher, said in a statement.

"'Adultery' and 'apostasy' are acts which should not be considered crimes at all, let alone meet the international standard of 'most serious crimes' in relation to the death penalty. It is flagrant breach of international human rights law," the researcher said.

Ibrahim is eight months pregnant and currently in custody with her 20-month-old son, according to Amnesty International, which considers her a prisoner of conscience.

Christian Solidarity Worldwide, another rights group, described Ibrahim's case as follows:

She was born to a Sudanese Muslim father and an Ethiopian Orthodox mother. Her father left when she was 6 years old, and Ibrahim was raised by her mother as a Christian.

However, because her father was Muslim, she was considered by the courts to be the same, which would mean her marriage to a non-Muslim man is void.

In past cases involving pregnant or nursing women, the Sudanese government waited until the mother weaned her child before executing any sentence, said Christian Solidarity Worldwide spokeswoman Kiri Kankhwende.

After-hours attempts Wednesday to contact the Justice Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister in Sudan were unsuccessful.

Foreign embassies in Khartoum are urging the government there to reverse course.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/14/world/africa/sudan-christian-woman-apostasy/



Thank God for the Quran.  :peace:

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