Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Topics - Iyyaka

Pages: [1] 2
Questions/Comments on the Quran / RIBA from the Quran perspective
« on: June 27, 2019, 01:26:05 PM »
Salam Everyone,

Etymologically, the word ribâ is derived from the root rabâ whose primary meaning is to increase, to swell, to grow..

So, i personnally translate RIBA as "Overload" like an EXTRA which is not included in the original transaction.
RIBA, in the Quran, refers to a specific attitude : It is "ribâ al–jâhiliya" which means : "If the borrower could not repay the loan by the agreed due date, then the lender would postpone the repayment to another term but also DOUBLING the AMOUNT DUE." and so take advantage of a weak situation to increase his capital…

- - - - - - Proofs from al-quran - - - - - -

   (1) At the end of the ayat (30:39) appears these words from God (after the word RIBA) : "...these are the ones who will get the DOUBLE."
Also, in the ayat (30:38), the arabic word amwâl/Goods is a generic term for both currency and all forms of goods such as barley, dates, livestock, etc.

   (2) (3:130) "O rallied ! Do not consume Overload/Extra(-loan)/riba by DOUBLING/aḍ‘âfan REDOUBLED/muḍâ‘afa, and fear God so that you may prosper "

   (3) (74:6) "And (do) not confer favor (to) acquire more,"

Now, here is the good behavior from Quran perspective if someone can not pay on the due date :
   (2:280) " And if is the (debtor) in difficulty, then (1) POSTPONEMENT until ease. And if you (2)REMIT as CHARITY (it is) better for you, if you know".

Just a remark : just before this ayat the word "RIBA" appears 5 times ! (in ayats 2:275 to 2:278 - only 8 times in the entire Quran)

So, logically, the LONGER ayat from Al-Quran comes after these written passages to protect the debtor :
   (2:282) "O you who rallied when you contract with one another any DEBT FOR A TERM FIXED then write it…"

Peace .

Salam Everyone,

We will closely study an important letter that will allow us once again to "Tadabbour" and better understand the specific message of the Qur'an.
The [Ya] is both used as a consonant and as a vocalization in the extension of the sound ['i'].

First, the Ethymology {H,D} from the radical Hûdan means to guide.

Second, list the verses for the word Hûdan and the word Yahûd (translated by jews without distinction) :

- Hûdan : (2:62), (4:46), (4:160), (5:41), (5:44), (5:69), (6:146), (16:118), (22:17), (62:6), (2:111), (2:135) and (2:140)
- Yahûd : (2:113), (2:120), (3:67), (5:18), (5:51), (5:64), (5:82) and (9:30)

So now what is the difference ?
- Hûdan : Jews (general community) -> Those who has received the Guidance with a neutral or positive connotation
- Yahûd : Jews (some from the general community) -> with an exclusive NEGATIVE connotation.
They have the Guidance but they act in the opposite direction !

In conclusion, we have one of the functions (the function?) of this letter [Ya] is to reverse, to invert, opposite things

Other Examples :
- {B,S} = soft (like a bread) # [Y-B-S] = Hard
- {A,S} = Power # [Y-A-S] = power loss
- {T,M} = complete # [Y-T-M] = INcomplete (orphan)
- {R,Q} = lower, reduce # [R-Q-Y] = to raise..

Also, from the sound, we can remark that this letter allow to increase the sound ['i']#['iiii'] : Short # Long..Opposite.


Salam everyone,

The expression "to strike the necks" is often taken by the Traditionnal literalists as the open door, authorized by God, to massacre in the event of war and in particular to slice heads ... Let's see what it is when one makes linguistic "tadabbour/Meditating in-depth", under control of the Qur'an of course (the Ultimate Argument)

I discussed the role of isolated letters and the nominal meaning of the word "DaRaBa" here:

As a reminder, the root of the word "DaRaBa" refers to the idea of deploy (person / thing) actively to evolve a blocked / difficult situation "

Now let's analyze the word "RiQaB = neck":

               R Q B (ر ق ب)

Rā  : Repetition, continuity
{QāF, } = Cover from above
=> General definition : Cover from above a thing /person/situation continuously

With as a complement :
 {, }     = Evolution, continuity
 {, QāF} = Lower, decrease, yoke etc.

This root refers to the notion of "neck" because the neck is the symbol of the control of the situation and its evolution.

So, we can propose a new translation close to the meaning expressed by God:
"Hitting the necks" means "Deploy actively to change this situation of conflict by controlling/overpowing them"

- - - Proofs from Literal Context - - -

(47:4)...until when you have subdued them,

ar-RiQaB : 2 others times in the Quran (with 47:4)
- (2:177) ...Freed those who are under control
- (9:60) : Only l-ṣadaqātu/charity-in-justice..those who are under control

- - - Proofs from History - - -

Raazias had to avoid as much as possible shedding blood (on both sides) and taking goods/people in a minimum of time



(33:21) Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you FOR he who seeks God and the Last Day and remembers constantly about God.

The word "example"/us'watun is frequently interpreted, and evoked in this sense in our collective imagination, as an order to imitate the messenger in his gestures, his facts and even in his way to get dressed (?).

We will treat this question from 3 angles by sticking to this verse as a reference :

(1) Linguistics: the difference between "ASW/uswatun" and "QDW"
- The word AS invokes the notion of power as in mathematics 'X²'
- The word Youwassi = he encourages (he gives him the power to resist the disease)
- The word QD means tailor-made and the wa the association
- so Quoudwa = a model to follow

=> So Ouswa in (33:21) means A source of encouragement (a source of energy), a source of inspiration etc.

(2) Fine, Muhammad is a source of encouragement, inspiration. But in what task of my life?
The quran says (33:21) ... FOR he who seeks God and the Last Day and remembers constantly about God .
=> The quran brings us back to God (quoted twice here) as if to remind us that only him is worthy of being followed.

(3) Muhammed as "messenger of GOD"
- The passive participle or ism al-mf'ūl, schema on which is built this word, designates the one who undergoes the action. (PASSIVE - It is not his own words!).

- Then, the word "Rasûl" comes from the verbal root rasala: to bring a message, a letter, etc., so it is simple and correct to translate rasûl by messenger or messenger.

- Indeed, the Quran explains its role, as a Messenger, by reducing it to the mere fact of transmitting from GOD: "is a transmission/balâgh of God and His messages/risâlâti-hi…». (72:23).



Regarding the possible significance of the single letters called al-muqatta 'at, which occur at the beginning of some surahs of the Qur'an, there are various theories bearing :

- These letters symbolize the names and attributes of allah

- These letters symbolize certain events that will take place in the future of time

- These letters throw a Qur'anic challenge

- It's allah who has exclusive knowledge of the interpretation of these letters
etc ..

For me and i hope from the Quran perspective, these letters are the starting/primary material for the analysis of the Quranic language of the divine writing (Kitab)

   (1) The direct proof by Al-Quran (just 2 examples) :
      - (12:1) Alif Lam Ra, These (are the) Symbols/Signs (of) the Writing clarifing.
      - (10:1) Alif Lam Ra. These (are the) Symbols/Signs (of) the Writing the wise.

   (2) Indirect proof : 27/30 => 90% of the suras that begin with these isolated letters refer to the word Kitab or Quran
         in the first verses.

Each letter therefore contains a knowledge that combined with other letters form triliterate words as a rule.
How to find this knowledge contained in each letter?

The method is to create a form by letter by approaching them by their
- Pictographic and (First approach here
- Phonetic meaning.

   - Example with the letter "Ba" (bā) ب
Pictographic meaning:
Home -> Protection, Hearth, Epicenter, Closed and Delimited Block, Blocked
Phonetic meanings:
Ba => "Ba" first sound pronounced by the baby after the "Ma"
Father representation, protection, tutoring

Bab => "Door" => Protection of the house but also representation of "bias" ...
                                                        Via, by, through, accompaniment, etc …

The 3 ideas come together and complement each other:
Protectorate <-> accompaniment <-> tutoring
NB : To this we must add the study of proxemia - When words are organized into networks :
The letter Ba refers to the construction and destruction, protection, preservation, cockpit, covering, capacity, content, accompaniment, foundation, attachment to the ground, terrain, soil, accommodation, home, place, constituency, entourage, tutoring, federation, bias, path, path, path, issue, exit, escape etc.

So the goal now is to try to find the basic root word definition from which derived words are drawn according to the context of use.
ALL derivative meanings MUST to respect the basic root word definition. It permits also to better understand what Allah talks about.

   - Right now, here is an example with the multi-meaning of "waDRiBouhounna" (The triliteral root ḍād rā bā (ض ر ب))

                                                                              D R B - ض  ر ب

D ض : Deployment
R   ر : Repetition
B ب   : Block, blocked, stopping point

=> So, the basic root definition is : Actively deploy to unlock a blocked/deteriorated/problematic situation

Other proof by combining the letter in pairs like this :

DB                          + RB                                                 + DR

Block Deployment    + Evolution                                         + Constraint
(dabab = fog*)           (Rabb = responsible of Evolution)     ( ضَرَّ : to disadvantage, to damage, to injure, to contraint)
* Deployment of block water droplets

           => Proofs from quran :

(4:34) As for those females from whom you fear disloyalty,
                then you shall advise them and deserting them (from) the rest place (already move away from her - her private room!),
                and wa-uh'jurūhunna. (but) If they respond to you, then do not seek remedy/redress over them;
          God is Most High, Great.
          => God give us a definition by the negative : do something but if the cause has disappeared then (negative) don't do something.

(4:128) And if a woman fears from her husband disloyalty or disregard/turn away, then there is no sin for them to reconcile between themselves; and reconciliation is good.
=> Confirmation here by using the word "reconcile".

           => Sometimes this root word is translate by "to travel" like another root word "SFR (safarin in 2:185)" and we lose Something by translating it like that !

In fact Safarin means "expedition" (the word SAFARI is derived in french/English from this same root word) with a meaning of distance like Camel caravans seeking to trade (without any notion of problem).
and Darabtum in (4:101) means "emigrate" (to leave his place of origin following a banishment or persecution) or "travel" (But to face a danger/evil like war) as shown the basic root word definition.

Hope you can enjoy this study (sorry for the length of the text ! :))
Peace be upon you and Human Envoys of God.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / (87:7) and rhetorical analysis
« on: May 30, 2019, 05:50:15 AM »
Salam Everyone,

This explanation of ayat (87:7) can be found in Ibn KHATIR's tasfir:
"O Muhammad," said God, "we teach you the Koran, you will not forget it" and this is a promise from God that he will teach him the Koran and never forget it "unless may Allah willing him. "Subsequently, the Prophet (may Allah bless him and greet him) recited the Quran without omitting anything except in the event that God wanted it." For He knows the visible and the invisible Nothing is hidden from him from the acts and words of His servants. "

this verse has always posed a problem for traditional exegetes on its interpretation and for the Orientalists who see it as proof of successive additions to the original text.

I hope once again to prove to you that the set of symmetries implemented in the Quran makes it possible to solve this problem. Once again, the Koran has a structure and a way of organizing the speech proper to it (called "rhetorical analysis" or "Semitic analysis") with which we are no longer accustomed (linearity # symmetry-paronomase among others ..)

Sura 87 is paired with Sura 88. Now it happens that Sura 88 also contains a passage that could be as ambiguous (88: 21-26) but easier to understand than the passage of Sura 87. This set of inter-suras symmetry is a sign of god to better understand the ambiguous passage sura 87.

Sura 88 (21-26) : A - B - A' - B'
[A] Only you (are) a reminder,

   [B] You are not over them an controller.
   [A'] Only whoever turns away and have been ungrateful,
   (coz) Then God will punish them (with) the punishment greatest.

[B'] Indeed to us (will be) their return,
Then, Indeed, upon Us (is) their account.

Sura 87 (6-8) : A - B - A' - B'
[A]We will make you recite,

   [B] so not you will forget,
   [A'] Only what God wills,
   (coz) Indeed he knows the public mention and the hidden.

[B'] And We will ease you to the ease.

So, now we can read the text by associating the A with the A 'and the B with the B' and another understanding is raised (specially for surah 87).

Example with surah 88 :

     - [A] Only you (are) a reminder, [A'] Only whoever turns away and have been ungrateful, (coz) Then God will punish them (with) the punishment greatest.

     - [B] You are not over them an controller. [B'] Indeed to us (will be) their return, Then, Indeed, upon Us (is) their account.

Example with surah 87 :

     - [A]We will make you recite, [A'] Only what God wills, (coz) Indeed he knows the public mention and the hidden.

     - [B] so not you will forget, [B'] and (because) We will ease you to the ease.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A last remark :
 - it better illuminates the end of Sura 87 and its allusuion to the ancient writings of Abraham and Moses

The word "apocryphal" from the Latin apocryphus, itself derived from the ancient Greek ἀπόκρυφος, apókruphos ("hidden", "secret").

I refer you to my thread which identifies (with a credible hypothesis) what these writings were, rediscovered during the last 2 century.

Historical view :
 - The period of the revelation of the Quran (beginning of the 7th century) is, according to the historians, in the period known as "late antiquity" (4th - 8th century).
It is a period of strong religious syncretism with many groups and sects around the Middle East.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Peace be upon you

Salam everyone,

Bismillah...I continue the discussion, in this traditionnal month of Ramadan, about an important Sura : Surah (97) sūrat l-qadr.
This is an issue that has been much publicized, without ever being really settled with many conjectures.

We only have to open our heart to the last message of God, ask God for his help (we are Nothing!), and meditate..

So, i deliver you the rhetorical analysis of this sura and, maybe, it will give you others Outlook. [IF it is right then the only merit is for God].

This Surah, like all the Surahs of the Quran, is not isolated and alone.
It is part of the set of six suras 93 to 98 which form a subsection of three sequences, each with two passages (or suras):

We will first compare the rhetorical links between Suras 97 and 98.
From a structural point of view, the two suras are built on the basis of a parallelism: 97.1-3 // 4-5 and 98.1-5 // 6-8.
Instead of making long speeches, inappropriate in a forum, I will use a color code that will invite my reader to think.

Sourate 97 :
1 Indeed, WE HAVE SENT IT DOWN in the Night of Al-QADR.
2 And what can make you know what is the  Night of Al-QADR ?
3 The Night of Al-QADR (is) better than one thousand lunar-months.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4 Come down the angels and the Spirit therein by the permission of their Master for EVERY ORDER.
5 PEACE it (is) until the EMERGENCE OF DAWN.

Sourate 98 :
Part 1 (1-5)
Those who deny among the Familiar of the Written and the polytheists was not untie [of their respective observance].
until came to them the proof                               (al-bAYYInA)

A messenger from God reciting leafs prurifed,
In them [there are] writtings righteous.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(wa m?) And are not divided,
those who have received the written,
(ill?) only after they came to them the proof        (al-bAYYInA)

(wa m?) And they were not ordered
(ill?) only to serve God
sincere in their faith in Him alone, yielding,

and they establish the Salat,
and they give the Zakat,

Such is the way righteous.                                                               (AL-qAYYImA)
Part 2 (6-8)
Certainly, those who deny among the Familiar of the Written and the polytheists,
[will be] in the fire of Hell, abiding therein :
those are the worst of creation.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Certainly, those who are faithful and do beneficial solidarity actions,
they are the best of creation.

Their reward, with their Master, will be in the gardens [of] Eden :
   flow from underneath them the rivers,
   [They will be]  abide therein, forever.
   God will be satisfied with them
   and they are satisfied with Him.
   That [is] for whoever feared his Master.
Sourate 93 (only part 1 (1-5))
By morning-clarity                                                 (wA-D-DuhA)
and the night when she was peaceful !

He has not left you your Master,
            nor did He scorn you.

And Indeed (wa la), the life to come will be better for you than this earlier part ! [In this life and after-life]
And Indeed (wa la), he will give you, your Master,
    and you will be satisfied !                                  (fA-tarDA)

Sourate 17:78 :
[…] Indeed the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed

------- How to translate the word "Al-Qadr" ? ----------

Layl Al-Qadr is the night of the Order/Decree

Layl Al-Qadr is the night of the Value/Measure

Layl Al-Qadr is the night of the Determination

Layl Al-Qadr is the night of the Destiny

------- How to understand the word "Night" ? ----------

Literal sense : A night where order(s) come down to the prophet.

Figurative sense : The light come down (Prophet/Quran) in a period of darkness as dawn comes to illuminate the dark night of its brilliance. And the struggle continues (perseverance) until ALL the night is gone.

Peace be upon you and God send you His grace.

Hello everyone,

In this period of the traditional month of "Ramadan" let me address a topic that caused a problem for Koranic interpreters in the past and now.

Indeed, in 2:184 the word "ma'dūdat" with the Alif and the Ta at the end suggests what is called in Arabic "djama`u qila" ie a Low number between 3 and 10 days.

       Others evidence?

       1) Classical Arabic Dictionary (Kazimirski and Lane's lexicon)

       2) The verses of the Qur'an that use this specific form (Except 2:184) confirm this Arabic usage:

           - (2:203: 5) And remember God during a few number of days. Whoever hurries to two days, there is no sin upon him; and whoever delays, there is no one who is being righteous. And be aware of God, and know that it is to be gathered.
           => 3 days (Hajj)

           - (3: 24: 9) That is because they said: "The Fire will not touch us except for a few days," and they were arrogant by what they invented in their system.
           => 7 days as the number of days in one Week (see Tafsir from "ibn kathir" = in English too)

BUT the problem is that the Quran seems to tell us in 2:185 to "fast" 1 whole lunar month is about 29-30 days! We are far from the few days that we can count on the hand!

How to solve this problem ? Here are the interpretations I found (in my point of view they are not really acceptable) :

1) Abrogation by the Hadtihs:



2) They made a distinction between the revelation period of verses 2:183-184 (the most recent) and that of 2:185 (the latest).
So at the beginning the "Muslims" were playing like the Jews for three days until they broke up with them as a separate community that imposed 30 days (Ramadan month) by the Koran. We are not far from abrogation.

3) The word "ma'dūdat" does not mean a very limited number of days (<= 10 days) but simply "counted", "numbered", "enumerated" .. in contradiction with the linguistic arguments that I mentioned above.

4) The word "shahru" in 2:185 does not mean 1 whole lunar month but refers to the first crescent moon after the new moon or full moon.
But the Koran says "shahru" = lunar month (because visible to the naked eye).
And the other Quranic verses use this meaning in a "whole month" way.
Furthermore, and as I pointed out in another recently post here, the word "To Fast" in English as in French is an intransitive verb (no object) that can not apply to 1 month or 1 crescent moon; which contradicts the expression "(2:185: 17) - falyaṣum'hu (hu = PRON - 3rd person masculine singular object pronoun)

So to your reflections to solve this apparent contradiction! (if we believe that the Koran contains no contradiction of course ..)

And sorry if an acceptable solution has already be found in this big forum.


Salam Everyone,

     The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
     87:16 No,you desire the worldly life.
     87:17 But the Hereafter is better and more lasting.
     87:18 This has been revealed in the previous scripts.
     87:19 The scripts of Abraham and Moses.

Muslim commentators have never really identified "the scripts (or leaflets) of Abraham." they are arguing to say that Abraham, like all prohpets since Adam, had received revelation of books (numbering ten for Abraham - Cf. Raz?, XXXI, p.149).
As for the "books of Moses", they generally identify them with the books of the Torah, that is, the Pentateuch. Nowhere is it said in the Pentateuch that the Hereafter is better and more lasting than wordly life (verse 87:18). Salvation and blessing, in the Pentateuch, do not go beyond the horizon of earthly happiness. Some commentators still attribute to Moise books revealed "before the Torah", without any further precision (According to Qat?da, quoted by Tasf?r al-was?t, Page 1882).

The vagueness of these attributions and their legendary allure manifest an obvious cultural break between the time of the Qur'an's utterance and that of the commentaries: these, with regard to the verses which occupy us (87: 18-19), have been identified, with a high probability (It's history so absolute certainty is difficult sometimes to know), by Genevi?ve Gobillot.
These are two apocrypha of the Old Testament, The Testament of Abraham and The Testament and the Death of Moses, title of the 19th chapter of the Book of Biblical Antiquities.
These two texts evoke the future life and its excellence in relation to the present life, in particular because of its perpetual duration, thus clearly joining the affirmations of the verse 87:17: "the life of After is better and more durable".

Thus verses 16-19 of the surah 87, as G. Gobillot asserts, that the Qur'an:
 "professes that apocryphal and pseudepigraphic writings must be considered as revealed and bear the divine message, like the canonical corpuses of Judaism and Christianity, because it draws explicit argument [...] from some of them to support his own teaching ".

NB: if you want you I can provide you some passages of these Apocrypha that bring them closer to this sura.


Someone made me a remark about the fact that I did not always respect basic grammatical rules (especially in the 22:40 analysis).
Of course, these rules are important, but it is even more important to respect the structuring and organization of the text, otherwise we risk of making a bad understanding of the Koranic discourse.

We have in 5: 45-46 an exemplary example! If we follow the linearity of the text then we are forced to understand that Jesus is part of the iniquitous..Following the modern logic of reading texts !

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
5:45 And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.
5:46 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a guidance and a light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a guidance and a lesson for the righteous.

Now the whole of the passage, which these 2 ayats appears, is composed globally in the following way:

A (5:44)
   X (5:45)
A '(5: 46-47)

The rhetorical analysis of passage 44-46, however, shows that "their footsteps" (46) is in symmetrical position with the "prophets" at the beginning of the two extreme parts of the passage.
In Semitic rhetoric, attention must always be drawn to symmetries, even if they are far removed from the text, more (or at least as much) than the linear continuity of it.


Pages: [1] 2