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[when you read the Quran, whether you are an Arabic speaker or not, are you influenced by the understanding of others or do you try to ponder on your own?]

Peace to all

I wanted to open a discussion about a specific style found in the Quran especially in the opening verses of certain chapters where God seems to be taking an oath. For example, Chapter 52 verses 1 to 10 has this powerful start, but the real intent behind the words is not always easy to grasp at least for me.
وَٱلطُّورِ
وَكِتَٰبٍۢ مَّسْطُورٍۢ
فِى رَقٍّۢ مَّنشُورٍۢ
وَٱلْبَيْتِ ٱلْمَعْمُورِ
وَٱلسَّقْفِ ٱلْمَرْفُوعِ
وَٱلْبَحْرِ ٱلْمَسْجُورِ
إِنَّ عَذَابَ رَبِّكَ لَوَٰقِعٌۭ
مَّا لَهُۥ مِن دَافِعٍۢ
يَوْمَ تَمُورُ ٱلسَّمَآءُ مَوْرًۭا
وَتَسِيرُ ٱلْجِبَالُ سَيْرًۭا

Take verse 52:6
Some have interpreted it to mean full of fire; Others say it means empty and unoccupied; Some think it refers to the sea being restrained like its water not sinking or overflowing; Others suggest it means a blend of sweet and salty waters; And some translate it as brimful and surging

All these are very different, yet you will notice that most translators today still follow a similar explanation probably shaped by the interpretations set long ago. A few have stepped outside that frame, but very few.

This makes me wonder did the early community of Islam around the time of the Prophet really go deep into each word like this? Given their tough lives and limited tools and time did they try to explore each verse in detail? Or was the message of the Quran already clear and powerful enough i.e. warning against idol worship, guiding towards a just life reminding of judgment hell and paradise and that alone was enough to draw people to the truth?

Understanding the Quran deeply feels like a lifelong task. I see people like Jkhan here trying to re-translate some verses with a fresh approach which is good to see. But even then every attempt today is influenced by the knowledge, language, and environment we live in. Human understanding/intellect keeps evolving and perhaps another person 500 years from now may have a complete different view if he or she wants to translate on own.

By opening this thread I am not starting a debate but inviting a more profound reflection. I am asking everyone to share honestly when you read the Quran, whether you are an Arabic speaker or not, are you influenced by the understanding of others or do you try to ponder on your own?

[Note: In writing this article I get help from Chatgpt]

Note: In writing this article I get help from Chatgpt


Introduction: Many Muslims grow up learning about the ritual pillars of Islam – daily prayers, fasting Ramadan, giving zakat, the hajj pilgrimage – as the core of faith. These rituals are often treated as the defining features of a "practicing" Muslim. Yet when we turn to the Quran itself with fresh eyes, we find a surprisingly different emphasis. The Quran repeatedly centers righteous deeds (ʿamal ṣāliḥ) – acts of justice, charity, honesty, kindness, and general good – as the true measure of faith, far more frequently than it mentions ritual obligations. In fact, God's promises of guidance, forgiveness, and reward are almost always tied to doing good, not performing rituals. This doesn't mean formal worship has no place, but it does mean that in the Quranic value system, rituals are a means and remembrance, while ethical conduct is the real test of one's religion. In this conversational exploration, aimed at a Quran-focused audience, we'll discuss how the Quran gives primacy to moral excellence over ritualism. We will ground our discussion in Quranic philosophy and ethics, highlighting verses (in English) that show God's pleasure is won through good deeds and just living. We'll also consider how ritual practices like prayer and fasting are understood as part of the Muslim community's inherited tradition (sunnah) rather than explicit detailed mandates in the Quran – they have spiritual and social value, but are not presented as the foundation of judgment or the essence of faith. Throughout, we avoid polemics or harsh judgments; many who cling to rituals are sincere. The goal here is gentle insight: to appreciate that what ultimately matters most, as the Quran teaches, is our understanding of God, our commitment to justice, and our sense of human responsibility shown through righteous action.

The Quran's Focus on Righteous Deeds
Anyone who reads the Quran cover to cover notices a recurring pairing: "those who believe and do righteous deeds". This phrase (or variants of it) appears dozens of times in the Quran, underscoring that faith (īmān) is always coupled with ethical action. For example, the Quran promises Paradise not to those who merely profess belief or perform rituals, but to "those who believe and do righteous deeds"

In one verse, God says: "Give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens under which rivers flow"

Another verse extends this glad news to all people of faith: "Those who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will they have, nor shall they grieve"

In other words, regardless of label – be they Muslim, Jew, Christian, or otherwise – anyone who trusts in One God and lives righteously has nothing to fear according to the Quran. Yet another verse emphasizes that "those who believe and do righteous deeds – those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally"

Such verses make a clear point: doing good (ʿamal ṣāliḥ) is at the very core of the Quran's message.

From a Quran-only perspective, it indeed seems that if anything deserves to be called a "pillar" of the faith, it is moral action! The Quran presents moral values like charity, honesty, fulfilling promises, justice, kindness to relatives and neighbors, patience, and forgiveness as the real signs of a righteous person. These virtues are universally recognized and are repeatedly encouraged in scripture
For instance, kindness to parents, support for orphans and the needy, speaking truth, and controlling one's anger are all endorsed as qualities God loves

In short, the ethical worldview of the Quran holds that cultivating good character and benefiting others are the truest indications of faith. The external identity or ritual badges one wears are secondary. One of the shortest but most profound chapters in the Quran, Sūrat Al-ʿAṣr (Chapter 103), beautifully summarizes what really counts. It warns that every human is in loss "except those who have faith and do righteous deeds and urge one another to truth and urge one another to perseverance"
This tiny three-verse chapter captures the "very essence of the Quranic philosophy and message" – success lies in faith combined with righteous action and a commitment to truth and patience

It's a powerful reminder that belief alone is not enough; it must translate into action and moral advocacy.
Promises of Forgiveness and Guidance – Tied to Good Deeds
Over and over, the Quran ties God's forgiveness, love, and guidance to those who do good, rather than those who simply perform rituals or belong to a certain group. One clear example is when Allah proclaims in the Quran: "I am indeed All-Forgiving to whoever repents and does righteous deeds and then remains guided."
Here, God's mercy is promised not for saying certain prayers or belonging to a particular sect, but for genuine repentance followed by good action and living morally upright. Likewise, the Quran reassures that no good deed will go unnoticed. "We will not allow to be lost the reward of any who did well in deeds," Allah says (Q. 18:30). In fact, our deeds are so important that the Quran teaches this life is essentially a test of who will do best in deeds. "He who created death and life to test which of you is best in deed" (Q. 67:2)

Everything on earth, all the ups and downs we face, are there "in order to test which of them is best in deeds" (Q. 18:7)
This perspective shifts the focus from obsessing over formal obligations to asking oneself: Am I living a life of integrity, kindness, and justice? That is the real examination. Crucially, on the Day of Judgment, the Quran says our outcome is determined by our deeds. Those who enter Paradise are greeted by angels with words of peace, saying: "Enter Paradise for what you used to do."
Likewise, those who are punished are told they are only being recompensed for their own actions: "You are only rewarded (or punished) for what you used to do"
In other words, heaven isn't earned by a tally of rituals, but by the overall weight of one's deeds. The Quran emphasizes personal responsibility: "each soul is paid in full for what it has done" (Q. 2:281, 2:286, etc.), and "for all there will be degrees [of reward or punishment] according to what they have done" (Q. 46:19)

Far from encouraging a kind of ritualistic "checklist" religion, the Quran constantly implores us to do good if we hope to meet good. Even God's love is earned through righteousness. The Quran often says "Allah loves the muḥsinīn", meaning those who excel in doing good (muḥsin can be translated as a person of spiritual excellence or simply a doer of good deeds). Nowhere does the Quran say "Allah loves those who perform such-and-such ritual perfectly" – the emphasis is consistently on character and deeds. This doesn't negate the importance of faith; rather, it shows the inseparable link between true faith and good works. Belief in God is supposed to transform our character. If someone prays five times a day but cheats their customers and mistreats their family, what have those prayers really accomplished? The Quran pointedly says: "Indeed, prayer prevents immorality and wrongdoing" (Q. 29:45), meaning if our ritual prayer doesn't lead us to better behavior, we're missing its point. Ritual worship in Islam is meant to nurture piety and moral discipline, not serve as an alternative to morality. The Prophet is told in the Quran: "Establish prayer for My remembrance" (Q. 20:14), implying that the value of prayer lies in keeping our hearts mindful of God, which should then reflect in how we live and treat others.

Rituals as Community Tradition, Not the Core of Revelation
It is significant that, while the Quran certainly mentions rituals like ṣalāt (prayer), zakāt (charity), ṣawm (fasting), and ḥajj (pilgrimage), it nowhere details how to perform many of these in practice. This suggests that the form of these rituals was already known to the community as a living tradition – passed down from earlier prophets like Abraham or practiced by the Prophet Muhammad and his followers – and thus did not need to be the focus of the revelation.
The Quran never treats Salāt (ritual prayer) as an obscure or secretive ritual. Its lack of procedural detail presumes a living tradition already in circulation – something known, not something needing textual reconstruction."

In other words, the Quran assumes its audience is familiar with how to pray, because prayer (in some form) was already part of the Abrahamic tradition inherited by the Arabs. The same can be said for fasting and pilgrimage – these were known practices. The Quran's role was not to introduce them as new rituals, but to infuse them with true meaning and correct any abuses. For example, the Quran introduced fasting in Ramadan by saying, "O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may attain taqwā (God-consciousness)" (Q. 2:183). Note the phrasing: as it was prescribed for those before you. Fasting was an existing religious practice. The Quran here confirms it as a spiritual discipline with the explicit purpose of increasing one's mindfulness of God. Similarly, the Hajj pilgrimage is described as the ancient rite established by Abraham – the Quran largely reminds people of its purpose (to commemorate God, avoid pagan practices, and observe the sacred months) rather than describing every ritual detail. Even daily prayer (ṣalāt) is presented as a continuation of earlier practice. The Quran indicates that previous communities, like the Jews and Christians, "already knew how to pray"

The Quran mentions that Abraham prayed and encouraged his family to do the same. It also refers to Moses, Jesus, and their followers as those who upheld prayer. For instance, the Children of Israel are addressed: "Establish prayer and give charity and bow with those who bow" (2:43). Similarly, Mary is told: "O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow" (3:43).
Now, I fully understand that some people interpret these actions—like bowing and prostrating—not as physical acts, but as metaphors. That's a known and ongoing difference in understanding between those who follow ritual practices and those who don't view them as necessary. I respect that viewpoint, but just to be clear, this particular post isn't about reopening that debate—it's already been discussed extensively in other threads.
But these references show that formal worship practices predated Islam and were well-known. Prophet Muhammad himself was taught to follow "the religion of Abraham" (millat Ibrāhīm) (Q. 16:123), implying that the ritual framework (prayer, charity, pilgrimage, etc.) was Abrahamic in origin, preserved among people as sunnah (living tradition). What the Quran does emphasize about rituals is their inner spirit and ethical outcome, not their precise form. For instance, the Quran frequently commands "establish prayer and give zakat", linking prayer with charity – suggesting that worship of God is empty if it doesn't lead one to care for others. The verse "Woe to those who pray, but are heedless of the purpose of their prayer – those who make a show [of piety] and withhold small acts of kindness" (Q. 107:4-7) warns that ritual prayer means nothing if a person is stingy and cruel

In fact, the entire short chapter Al-Māʿūn (Quran 107) scolds those who "repulse the orphan and do not encourage feeding the poor" even as they keep up the appearance of prayer. The message is unmistakable: prayer performed without compassion and justice is spiritually worthless – it's called out as hypocrisy. The early Islamic scholar al-Hasan al-Basri famously said: "If your prayer doesn't prevent you from indecency and evil, it's not really prayer – it just takes you further from God."

This echoes the Quranic teaching that true ṣalāt should refine one's character, not serve as a mere public ritual. From a Quran-centric viewpoint, we can say rituals are part of the inherited "sunnah" or communal practice of the Muslim ummah, meant to support a life of remembrance of God – but they are not the core of guidance. The core of divine guidance in the Quran is ethical monotheism: worshipping the One God alone (tawḥīd) and doing good to His creation. The rituals are scaffoldings that help organize the community and discipline individuals to remember God, but they are means to an end, not the end itself. The Quran's minimal instructions on ritual details seem very intentional: it leaves room for cultural expression and practical adaptation, while hammering home the point that God cares about why and how you act, not merely what motions you go through. Consider the beautiful verse Q. 2:177, which effectively defines "righteousness" in Islam. It begins: "Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the East or the West" – in other words, piety is not fulfilled by the mere outward act of facing a particular direction in prayer (East or West). Rather, the verse continues, "true righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Scripture, and the prophets; and who gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; who establishes prayer and gives zakāt; those who fulfill their promise when they promise; and who are patient in poverty and hardship and during struggle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous."

This single verse dismantles any notion that ritual correctness alone is "righteousness" in God's eyes. Turning towards Mecca for prayer is mentioned ("facing East or West") only to deemphasize it compared to the ethical and spiritual qualities listed: sincere belief, charity and generosity, social justice (freeing slaves), keeping one's word, patience under trials alongside prayer and charity. In fact, prayer and zakat are embedded in the middle of that long list of virtues – suggesting that while they are part of a righteous life, they are pieces of a much larger moral puzzle. God ends the verse by saying these holistic doers of good are the truly righteous. This verse really captures the Quranic ethos: ritual acts have value only when accompanied by compassion, honesty, and selflessness. It is the heart behind the act that matters, not the mere form of the act.

When Rituals Lose Their Purpose"
Because rituals are visible and measurable, it's easy for religious communities to start over-emphasizing ritual compliance as the definition of piety. We've all seen examples: someone who judges others harshly for not fasting or for missing a prayer, yet that same person might lie, backbite, or act arrogantly. This is exactly the mentality the Quran pushes against. The Quran consistently criticizes hypocrisy and empty formalism. It condemns earlier peoples (and implicitly warns Muslims) about obsessing over laws and rites while forgetting mercy and justice. A classic example is the Quranic critique of the Israelites who rigidly observed the Sabbath but then plotted ways to cheat around its spirit (Q. 7:163). The form was kept, but the spirit was violated. The Prophet Muhammad (per the Quran) was sent to "relieve them of their burdens and the shackles that were upon them" (Q. 7:157) – a reference to freeing people from an overly legalistic, ritual-obsessed religion and bringing them back to genuine God-conscious living. For a Quran-alone follower, it's important to remember that many rituals as practiced today are heavily shaped by community culture and centuries of juristic detail – much of which is outside the Quran. Muslims across the world follow a generally similar prayer format, for example, but with minor variations; these are part of the "living tradition" (al-sunnah) handed down through generations, not explicitly from the text of scripture. This is not necessarily a bad thing – continuity in communal worship can be spiritually meaningful and create unity. However, problems arise when people start to conflate those inherited customs with the core of faith, or when they use them as yardsticks to judge others' salvation. The Quran's message to all communities (past and present) is to avoid that trap. It reminds us that God guides and rewards people by their sincerity and deeds. Historically, the Prophet and his companions obviously did pray, fast, and perform Hajj; these practices were part of how they devoted themselves to God. But if you asked those early Muslims what made a person a true believer, they would likely say: "one who has īmān in God and the Last Day, and who gives of himself or herself for God's sake". Prayer and fasting were meant to be expressions of that faith and dedication, never a substitute for good character. The Prophet's wife ʿAisha, in a famous narration (not from the Quran but insightful nonetheless), described the Prophet's character as "the Quran walking" – meaning he embodied the Quran's ethics of kindness, honesty and mercy in daily life. That is the example for us. Thus, if someone prays, fasts, reads Quran daily but remains selfish, harsh, and unjust, they have missed the very point of God's guidance. This point is driven home by a hadith (which, although we're avoiding hadith in our argument, is worth mentioning as a cultural wisdom) where the Prophet reportedly said there will be people who pray and recite scripture beautifully, yet it doesn't go deeper than their throats – it doesn't reach their hearts or affect their behavior. The Quran similarly describes some contemporaries of the Prophet who would "make a show" of their prayer to be seen by people while forgetting to care for the needy (Q. 107:5-7). We must ensure we are not among those who perform ritual worship while neglecting the very moral duties that worship is supposed to inspire us to fulfill.

The Living Heart of Islam: One God and Good Works for All Humanity:
The Quranic vision of religion, then, can be described as ethical monotheism. It calls us to believe in the One unseen God, trust His wisdom and plan, and then live ethically and humbly as His stewards on earth. There is a beautiful coherence in this: if you truly believe in God, you will care for His creation; if you truly trust His justice, you will uphold justice among people; if you truly love and revere Him, you will show love and mercy to those around you. Rituals (ṣalāt, ṣawm, ḥajj, etc.) can help reinforce this consciousness – for example, fasting reminds us of the hunger of others and softens our hearts, prayer done right keeps us connected to the Almighty throughout the day, and the Hajj pilgrimage reminds us of our equal humanity and the legacy of Abraham. But none of these rituals are "ends" in themselves. We won't present our prayer mats or fasting schedules to God on Judgment Day; we will present our hearts and our deeds. The Quran even gives examples that people of other faiths, or no formal faith, can possess great righteousness. It acknowledges that moral virtue is not the monopoly of any one group. As mentioned, Quran 2:62 (and similarly 5:69) explicitly includes righteous Jews, Christians, and Sabians among those who have nothing to fear if they truly believed in God and the Last Day and did good

Another verse notes that among the People of the Book are those who "believe in Allah and the Last Day and enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds – those are among the righteous" (Q. 3:113-114). The Quran praises these qualities, showing that anyone who upholds justice and kindness is on a godly path, whether they carry the label "Muslim" or not. In modern times, we see countless examples: a humanitarian Christian building schools for the poor, a secular doctor dedicating her life to curing disease, a Hindu or atheist philanthropist funding orphanages – all these are exemplars of "ʿamal ṣāliḥ" (righteous work) that the Quran would commend. The Quran's principle is that "Whoever does an atom's weight of good shall see it" (Q. 99:7), and "Allah will not let the reward of the believers' deeds be lost" (Q. 18:30). This inclusive understanding does not negate the Quranic call to tawḥīd (pure monotheism). Rather, it suggests that belief in the One God must go hand in hand with humanitarian values – and that those who unknowingly practice those values are close to God's guidance. As Quran 5:48 says, "For each community, We have appointed a law and a path... so compete with one another in good deeds. To Allah is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you differed." The emphasis is on racing to do good, not racing to multiply rituals. Let's also highlight what the Quran says about justice and knowledge, as these are forms of good deeds highly honored in Islam. Standing up for justice is a Quranic command "even if against yourselves or your kin" (Q. 4:135). Seeking knowledge and using reason is encouraged, and those who have knowledge are ranked high. So, when people today work for social justice, fight corruption, or advance beneficial science, they are in effect fulfilling God's will on earth by improving lives and upholding truth. A scientist finding a cure for a disease, a judge honestly combating injustice, an environmentalist protecting God's creation – these modern forms of service are deeply aligned with amal ṣāliḥ. They may not look like "religious" acts in a narrow sense, but in the Quranic sense they absolutely are. The Quran often uses the broad term "khayr" (good) and "birr" (righteousness) for actions – which can encompass everything from feeding one's family with halal earnings to freeing a slave. For instance, freeing people from bondage, feeding the hungry, caring for orphans, and helping the oppressed are singled out as some of the highest deeds. Sūrat Al-Balad (90:11-18) calls these acts the steep path that leads to salvation. It challenges us: "What will make you understand what the uphill road (to goodness) is? It is to free a slave; or to feed in a day of hunger an orphaned relative or a needy person in distress; and to be of those who have faith and urge one another to patience and compassion."
How interesting that believing in God is mentioned here almost in passing, as a given, while the emphasis is on those concrete humanitarian deeds as the difficult, wonderful road to virtue. Clearly, moral excellence is the foundation of religious life in the Quran's view.

Sincerity and Understanding Above Formalism:
In stressing all this, we are not discounting the sincerity of many religious folks who devote themselves to rituals. Intentions do matter. Someone might pray five times a day out of genuine love for God and a desire to please Him – that intention is noble. Another might fast strictly because they empathize with the less fortunate and want to build self-control – that's commendable. The Quran isn't denying the value of sincere worship. Rather, it's warning us not to lose sight of why we worship. The purpose of every act of worship in Islam is ultimately to remember God and cultivate goodness. When someone prays with humility and then goes out and helps their neighbor, that prayer shines. When someone fasts and it leads them to feed others and restrain their temper, that fast is successful. It's only when the link is broken – when rituals become empty or are done just out of habit or social pressure – that the Quran's critique comes in: "What will I do with your sacrifices or your blood, when what I want is for you to be righteous?" (Paraphrasing Q. 22:37, where Allah says the flesh and blood of sacrificed animals do not reach Him, but rather "it is your piety (taqwā) that reaches Him"). So, we should not be quick to judge the hearts of those who emphasize rituals, either. Many of our fellow Muslims find comfort and meaning in these devotional acts. They may not yet see that ethical conduct is the greater jihad (struggle) – or they may assume that performing the rituals automatically makes them good people. It's our job to gently remind (first ourselves, then others by example) that the best Muslim is not the one who simply prays on time, but the one who also treats people kindly, stands up for what's right, and curbs their ego. Rituals should be encouraged as long as we always pair them with education about their moral lessons. For example, when teaching children to pray, also teach them that prayer should make them more honest and caring – "see, we put our heads down to God; that means we don't act arrogant to people". When encouraging someone to fast, remind them "the Prophet said many people get nothing from fasting but hunger – so let's make sure we get its real benefits by controlling our tongue and helping others while we fast." This way, we honor the sincerity behind rituals but redirect focus to what truly matters to God.

Belief and Moral Excellence: The Twin Essentials:
To conclude, the Quran sets forth two inseparable essentials for salvation: true faith in the One God and moral excellence. Neither can stand without the other. Believing in God but doing evil is hypocrisy; doing good without acknowledging God's truth (while beneficial in this world) misses the ultimate purpose of our existence. The Quran repeatedly pairs "īmān (faith) with ʿamal ṣāliḥ (righteous action) for this reason – it wants us to understand religion in a holistic way. Life in this world is described as a test. "He has created death and life to test which of you is best in deeds" (Q. 67:2)
Every situation we face is an opportunity to respond with either good or bad. Our belief in the unseen God is what grounds us and gives us the inner strength and value system to choose good over evil, even when it's hard. And our good deeds are the natural fruit of that belief – they prove our faith is genuine. In a sense, righteous deeds are faith made visible. If faith is an internal seed, good deeds are the visible plant that grows from it, providing shade and fruit to the world. If there is no plant, was there really a living seed? The Quran assures us that God understands we are imperfect and will sin, but He asks us to keep trying to do good and to seek forgiveness when we fall short. He promises that those who strive to purify themselves will find Him Oft-Forgiving. "God loves those who purify themselves" and "God loves those who do good", the Quran says. Notably, it does not say "God loves those who never commit a mistake in ritual." We are all human; missing a prayer or messing up a fast happens to the best of us. The key is that we turn back to God, repent sincerely, and mend our ways. God's forgiveness is open to any who repent and correct themselves through righteous conduct

As one verse states: "I am All-Forgiving to whoever repents and believes and works righteousness, and then remains on guidance."
Here "remains on guidance" implies consistency – i.e. continuing to live a morally guided life thereafter. It's a beautiful balance: faith and good works, followed by God's grace guiding us further. Finally, let's imagine the kind of community the Quran wants us to build. It would certainly be a community where God is remembered often – "the remembrance of Allah is greater" (Q. 29:45)

So yes, people would pray, read scripture, invoke God's name regularly. But equally, it would be a community known for its justice, compassion and contribution to the world. A community about which others would say: "These people are honest in their dealings, they care for their poor, they educate their children (and everyone's children), they respond to disasters with generosity, and they stand against wrongdoing." In other words, a community that exemplifies Quranic ethics in action. This is the legacy of the Prophet and the early believers – they established a society in Medina where mutual help, equality (brotherhood between the emigrants and helpers), and justice (a constitution granting rights to all, even non-Muslims) were hallmarks. The Quran was molding them not just into ritual-performers, but into "khayra ummah" – the best community – "enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and believing in God" (Q. 3:110). In summary, the primacy of righteous deeds in the Quran is unmistakable. We are invited to see rituals not as the goal, but as supportive traditions that remind us of God and discipline us – so that we can go out and live a righteous life of service, honesty and humility. Our identity as Muslims should rest not on how many rituals we do, but on how we exemplify the Quran's moral teachings. The world today desperately needs people who uphold justice, truth, and compassion – and the Quran tells us that those are the people whom God will guide and reward, in this life and the next. No matter what our religious label, it is our deeds that define us in God's sight
As the Quran poignantly states about humanity: "We have certainly created man in the best of stature, then We returned him to the lowest of the low – except for those who believe and do righteous deeds, for they will have an unfailing reward."

May we be among those who believe and do good, and may our rituals – when we perform them – always fuel our commitment to justice, mercy, and the remembrance of God.

Salam Everyone,

I was having a chat with a worker in my building who takes care of small tasks and assists residents with their daily needs. He is someone I often talk to, and during one of our conversations, he mentioned Surah Al-Waqiah (Chapter 56 of the Quran). He told me that he hopes to be among the "foremost" (sabiqoon) mentioned in this chapter. He explained that in this life, he does not have the luxuries that wealthy people enjoy—like servants, a comfortable lifestyle, companionship, and fine drinks—but he believes that in the hereafter, all of these things will be given to him as described in the surah.

This got me thinking about how the chapter describes paradise and hell. The imagery in this surah is very vivid, painting a picture of paradise where people sit on high couches, served by young boys carrying drinks that do not cause intoxication or regret. It also describes pure companions (hoor) and an overall sense of comfort, abundance, and ease. On the other hand, the surah presents a stark contrast with the punishment of those who reject the truth, showing them eating from the tree of zaqqum, which burns their insides, drinking boiling water, and suffering under scorching heat.

So my questions:

• Do you these descriptions literally, meaning that paradise will have actual servants, drinks, and rewards as described?

• Or are these descriptions metaphorical, representing something beyond our understanding, such as spiritual fulfillment, peace, and contentment?

• Could these verses be addressing human desires for comfort and happiness, especially for those who do not have them in this life, like my friend who sees paradise as the ultimate justice for his struggles?

In view of an analogy, should these verses be interpreted as referring to life on earth rather than the hereafter? Some interpretations suggest that these descriptions reflect a system of justice and reward in the worldly sense rather than a physical paradise and hell. If taken metaphorically, could this mean that "paradise" refers to a just system where people live in harmony with divine principles, and "hell" represents the suffering caused by rejecting these principles?

The Quran itself states that some verses are clear and others are allegorical (mutashabihat). Would you consider the descriptions in Surah Al-Waqiah as literal or metaphorical?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[1. Did Iblis Have a Justification for His Disobedience?]

Dear Folks,
I have been reflecting on the story of Iblis' refusal to prostrate to Adam, and I find that it opens up many deep discussions, both theological and philosophical. I am sharing my thoughts here, not as a conclusion but as an open discussion, and I would love to hear what others think about this matter.

1. Did Iblis Have a Justification for His Disobedience?

From Iblis' own point of view, he believed he had a valid reason to reject the command. His argument was:

"I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay." (Surah Al-A'raf 7:12)

This tells us a few things about his mindset:

• He saw himself as superior due to his nature, believing that fire was more refined than clay.
• He did not see prostration as a command from Allah but as a humiliation.
• He believed he deserved a higher status than Adam and saw this command as unjust.

This reasoning sounds familiar. Imagine a workplace where a senior employee is told to acknowledge a newcomer in a position of authority. The senior employee refuses, believing he is more experienced and deserving. This is a human reaction, but in this case, it wasn't just about rank—it was about obeying Allah's command without arrogance.

This raises a question: Was Iblis rejecting Adam, or was he actually rejecting Allah's wisdom?


2. Was Iblis Set Up to Fail?

Some might ask: If Allah already knew what Iblis would do, was he destined to fail?

The answer is both yes and no.

✔ Yes, because nothing happens outside Allah's knowledge and will.
✔ No, because Iblis had free will and made a conscious choice.

This is the same question as "Why does Allah allow humans to sin?"

A teacher gives an exam knowing that some students will pass and some will fail. Does that mean the teacher forced them to fail? No. The students still had free will to study or not.

Similarly, Allah knew what Iblis would choose, but Iblis still had the power to choose.

But this also brings up another issue: Was Iblis actually an angel?


3. Free Will and the Iblis Exception – Was He Really an Angel?


The Quran tells us that angels do not disobey Allah:

"They do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded." (Surah At-Tahrim 66:6)

So, if angels never disobey, but Iblis did, was he truly an angel? Or was he a unique case?

Some say Iblis was from among the Jinn, but others argue that Jinn is a status, not a separate creation. This leads to some interesting theories:

• Was Iblis originally an angel but given free will as a test?
• Was he a high-ranking being among the angels but not exactly one of them?
• Was he simply an exception, and that's why this whole story is so significant?

There are still many open discussions on this topic, and I think it adds another layer of depth to this whole event.

4. The Oath of Iblis – Acknowledging Allah While Rebelling


One of the most intriguing aspects of this story is that even after rebelling, Iblis takes an oath by Allah Himself:

"[Iblis] said, 'By Your Might! I will surely mislead them all, except Your chosen servants among them.'" (Surah Sad 38:82-83)

This is quite strange when you think about it. Even in his rebellion, Iblis still swears by Allah's might—meaning he never denied Allah's existence or power. This shows that Iblis was not a disbeliever in the conventional sense.

Another key observation: Iblis knew he could not mislead everyone. He admits that Allah's chosen ones will remain protected. This suggests that despite his arrogance, Iblis understood his own limits. He knew he could not overpower Allah's will.

This raises another profound question: Does Allah choose certain individuals to be immune from the influence of Iblis? Is this predetermined, or does Allah make this choice based on people's actions?
Say When Allah selects prophets, such as Jesus (peace be upon him), He declares them blessed from the day they are born. This suggests that Allah's selection is not solely based on taqwa (piety) or as a test, but rather, He chooses whom He wills out of His divine wisdom and will. Since Allah does whatever He wills, none can question His decree. Is this understanding correct?

5. The Immortality of Iblis – Is He Still Alive?

Iblis was given a respite until the Day of Judgment:

"[Iblis] said, 'Grant me respite until the Day they are resurrected.' [Allah] said, 'Indeed, you are of those who are reprieved.'" (Surah Al-Hijr 15:36-37)

This means that the original Iblis is still alive today. He is not like ordinary Jinn or humans who die—he has been granted time until the end of this world.

This raises another interesting point:

• Iblis is one being, the same one from Adam's time.
• But there are other Shayateen (devils) that work with him.
• Are these other devils from Jinn? Or are they humans influenced by him?

6. Are Shayateen (Devils) Jinn or Humans?

In the last surah of the Quran, Allah mentions:

"From among the devils, from the Jinn and mankind." (Surah An-Nas 114:6)

This means that Shayateen (evil ones) are not only from Jinn but also from humans.

This raises another question:

If Jinn were originally angels, why are they mentioned separately from humans?
Does this mean Jinn actually have free will, unlike angels?
If so, what exactly makes a Jinn different from an angel in status?
Again, this is another deep question that might not have a simple answer.

7. The Ultimate Lesson – A Warning for Us


The story of Iblis is not just about an angel (or Jinn) disobeying Allah. It is a direct warning for us, humans.

Iblis was a true believer—he knew Allah, he worshipped Allah, and he spoke directly to Allah. But despite this, his arrogance (Takabbur) and envy (Hasad) led him to Hell.

If this could happen to Iblis, then we humans should be very, very careful.

✔ Takabbur (Arrogance) is dangerous.
✔ Hasad (Envy) is destructive.
✔ Rejecting truth due to pride can destroy faith.


8. Final Thoughts – Should Iblis Have Been Given Another Chance?

Iblis' downfall wasn't just about one sin—it was about his attitude.

✔ He refused to accept Allah's decision.
✔ He didn't repent, but instead challenged Allah.
✔ He let arrogance (takabbur) and envy (hasad) control him.

This makes me wonder:
What if Iblis had repented? Would he have been forgiven like Adam?

Or was his fate sealed because he never even considered apologizing?

And the deeper question—was Iblis' refusal really about Adam, or was it about rejecting Allah's command?

Looking forward to your insights.

The Quran says some nations did not receive a warner before Prophet Muhammad. For example:

📖 Surah Yaseen (36:6)
"So that you may warn a people whose forefathers were not warned, and so they are heedless."

📖 Surah Al-Qasas (28:46)
"But [you were sent] as a mercy from your Lord to warn a people to whom no warner had come before you, so that they may take heed."

📖 Surah As-Sajdah (32:3)
"It is the truth from your Lord so that you may warn a people to whom no warner had come before you, so that they may be guided."

But this raises big questions:

🔹 If their forefathers had no prophet, how can they be blamed for following the wrong path?
🔹 The Quran also says: "And We do not punish [a people] until We have sent a messenger." (17:15) — does this mean those without a prophet will not be punished?
🔹 Were the Quraysh supposed to figure out monotheism on their own, maybe through Abrahamic teachings or by interacting with Jews and Christians?

Another point: Prophet Muhammad is described as "a mercy to the worlds."

📖 Surah Al-Anbiya (21:107)
"And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds."

Each prophet has a symbolic role. Jesus is called Messiah, Moses is known for laws and miracles, but Muhammad is specifically called a mercy.

🔹 Does this make his role exceptional compared to other prophets?
🔹 Is this just about his teachings, or does it mean something greater about his mission?

Curious to hear different perspectives on this. Thank you folks.

[1. Splitting of the Sea (Moses)]

Dear All,

Over the years, members of this site have talked a lot about the miraculous events mentioned in the Quran. Traditional scholars often interpret these events literally, but the folks on this website may have different views among themselves.

I want to list these miraculous events and ask everyone for their opinions as short. Do you believe in the literal translation, or do you have another interpretation? and if yes why do you believe these are Allegorical in understanding?

Let us have a respectful and insightful sharing of understanding, of course with in the context of Quran but again interprations and understanding may differ.
To make it meaningful, I will quote the non-traitional interpreations of GA Pervez [as an example ONLY and his version is not the focal point of discussion]
https://www.parwez.tv/abid/mufhoom_1/by_G_A_parwez/Exposition%20of%20Quran.htm

1. Splitting of the Sea (Moses)

Reference: Quran 26:63 (Arabic: "فَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ مُوسَىٰ أَنِ ٱضْرِب بِعَصَاكَ ٱلْبَحْرَ فَٱنفَلَقَ فَكَانَ كُلُّ فِرْقٍ كَٱلطَّوْدِ ٱلْعَظِيمِ", English: "So We inspired to Moses, 'Strike with your staff the sea,' and it split, and each part became like a great mountain.")
Traditional Interpretation: A miraculous intervention by God, displaying His power to save Moses and the Israelites by parting the sea.
GA Pervez:
So We sent a revelation to Moses, saying; "Take your people to the sea/river (from a particular direction) and then cross it at a point where it has become dry."  (20:77; 44:24)


2. The Virgin Birth (Jesus)
Traditional Interpretation: A divine miracle where Mary gives birth to Jesus without any male intervention, highlighting the miraculous power of God.
Reference: Quran 19:20-21 (Arabic: "قَالَتْ أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لِي غُلَامٌ وَلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِي بَشَرٌ وَلَمْ أَكُ بَغِيًّۭا. قَالَ كَذَٰلِكِ ٱللَّهُ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاءُ إِذَا قَضَىٰ أَمْرًۭا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُۥ كُن فَيَكُونُ", English: "She said, 'How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?' He said, 'Thus Allah creates what He wills. When He decrees something, He says to it only, 'Be,' and it is.")
GA Pervez:
She said, "How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me." (When I was in the temple, I lived a virtuous life; and since I came out, I have not got married as this is against the clerical laws ~ 3:46; 19:28.)
He said, "Whatever I have told you, will happen according to Allah's law of creation (3:46).  This is easy for Him (to remove all the hindrances which are in your mind and which perturb you ~ 19:9). Allah has also said that this child will not be like other children.  He will be from our side an embodiment of Rahmat for the people; and a testimonial for truth and falsehood.  (Whoever brings Eiman on his Nabuwat will be on the right path, while the one who rejects it will be wrong.)  And this is already decreed by Us (that the child will be Our Messenger ~ 3:47).
(And gradually all impediments were removed and the fear of clerical taboos vanished from Mary's mind.  At the same time, in spite of warnings and intimidation from the priests, one person agreed to marry Mary.)  In time Mary conceived the child and consequently they (both of them) considered it appropriate to move to a far off place (so that the child would be born at a place where no one knew them; and where they would be safe from the wrath and accusations of the priests).

3. Reviving the Dead
Traditional Interpretation: Prophets like Jesus were given the power to revive the dead as a sign of their divine authority and God's supremacy by the order of God.
Reference: Quran 3:49 (Arabic: "وَأُحْيِ ٱلْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِ ٱللَّهِ", English: "And I give life to the dead by the permission of Allah.") [and ˹make him˺ a messenger to the Children of Israel ˹to proclaim,˺ 'I have come to you with a sign from your Lord: I will make for you a bird from clay, breathe into it, and it will become a ˹real˺ bird—by Allah's Will. I will heal the blind and the leper and raise the dead to life—by Allah's Will. And I will prophesize what you eat and store in your houses. Surely in this is a sign for you if you ˹truly˺ believe]
GA Pervez:
Jesus will say to the Bani-Isr'ael, "(The Law which I have received through revelation is not a new one.) It will validate what has been said before in the Torah (and liberate you from your self-made Shari'at – 4/160, 6/147, 16/118) and to make lawful unto you some of the things which had been forbidden to you (earlier). And I have come with a message from your Sustainer so always abide by the Laws of Allah and follow me."
Mary was also told that her son will not be like ordinary children. Allah will give him the Book based on wisdom and reveal to him knowledge of the Torah and Bible, sending him as a Nabi to Bani-Isr'ael to whom he will say: "I bring to you a life-giving message from your Rabb. Through this revelation I will give you new life so that you can rise above the depths to which you have sunk and be able to soar high in the sky" (5/110). In all this is indeed a message for you, but only if you have faith in it.
At present you are sightless; this revelation will give you sight so that you can walk on the right path.              At present, fields of your activities are barren and lifeless; through the revelation they will become green and fruitful. Your mean disposition due to which others shun you will be transformed.
In short, your present death-like state of disgrace and degradation will be changed into a new life.

4. The Night Journey (Isra and Mi'raj)
Traditional Interpretation: A physical and/or spiritual journey undertaken by Prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem and then to heaven, affirming his prophethood and the miracles associated with it.
Reference: Quran 17:1 (Arabic: "سُبْحَـٰنَ ٱلَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِّنَ ٱلْمَسْجِدِ ٱلْحَرَامِ إِلَىٰ ٱلْمَسْجِدِ ٱلْأَقْصَا ٱلَّذِي بَـٰرَكْنَا حَوْلَهُۥ لِنُرِيَهُۥ مِنْ ءَايَـٰتِنَآ إِنَّهُۥ هُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلْبَصِيرُ", English: "Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al-Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.")
GA Pervez:
(1) (The atmosphere in Makkah had become unbearable for the Jama'at-ul-Momineen and there was a little hope that the message of Islam would be accepted by those who had not only rejected it but planned to kill the Rasool.) Limitless glory to Allah who moved his devotee one night from the sacred mosque (of Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Madina - where atmosphere was much more conducive) and its environs We had blessed. The purpose of the migration was that the promises made by Allah with him in Makkah should be fulfilled. Most certainly Allah is all Hearing and All-Seeing (20/23). (Therefore every decision of His is based on Knowledge and Wisdom.)

5. Creation of Adam
Traditional Interpretation: God created Adam from clay as the first human, breathing life into him, demonstrating God's creative power.
Reference: Quran 38:71-72 (Arabic: "إِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ إِنِّى خَـٰلِقٌۢ بَشَرًۭا مِّن طِينٍۢ فَإِذَا سَوَّيْتُهُۥ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِى فَقَعُوا۟ لَهُۥ سَـٰجِدِينَ", English: "When your Lord said to the angels, 'Indeed, I am going to create a human being from clay. So when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My [created] soul, then fall down to him in prostration.'")
GA Pervez:
When the human being reaches a stage where it has acquired the best of proportions in every respect (after passing through all the developmental/evolutionary stages, and I breathe into it a sparkle of My energy, he attains a human personality capable of making choices and discretions.  Then, at that stage, you  (Malaika) should bow before him

6. Solomon and the Ants
Solomon was granted the ability to understand animals, demonstrating his unique prophetic wisdom. The story illustrates his compassion and awareness, as he heeds the warning of an ant to avoid harming it and its fellow ants unintentionally.
Reference: Quran 27:18-19 (Arabic: "حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَآ أَتَوْا۟ عَلَىٰ وَادِ ٱلنَّمْلِ قَالَتْ نَمْلَةٌۭ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّمْلُ ٱدْخُلُوا۟ مَسَـٰكِنَكُمْ لَا يَحْطِمَنَّكُمْ سُلَيْمَـٰنُ وَجُنُودُهُۥ وَهُمْ لَا يَشْعُرُونَ", English: "Until, when they came upon the valley of the ants, an ant said, 'O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not.'")
GA Pervez: 
(At one time Soloman learnt that the State of Sheba was planning to attack.  So as a precaution he took his army towards them.  The valley of Namal was on the way and like that of the State of Sheba, its head of state was a woman.  When she received the news of this army, she ordered her subjects to remain in their dwellings to save themselves.  Without ascertaining whether they had any connection or alliance with their enemy the State of Sheba, she was afraid that the troops might crush them.  (This is normal action when armies invade.  It is better to move out of their way.)

7. Age of Noah:

Traditional Interpretation: Noah is one of the longest-lived prophets in Islamic tradition. According to the Quran, he preached to his people for 950 years before the great flood occurred. This extended lifespan is seen as a testament to his perseverance in delivering God's message despite the continued disbelief of his people.
Reference: Quran 29:14 (Arabic: "وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا نُوحًا إِلَىٰ قَوْمِهِ فَلَبِثَ فِيهِمْ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ إِلَّا خَمْسِينَ عَامًا فَأَخَذَهُمُ الطُّوفَانُ وَهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ", English: "And We certainly sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them a thousand years minus fifty years, and the flood seized them while they were wrongdoers.")
GA Pervez:
(However there is nothing strange in what they are saying.  Consider the history of the tussle between good and evil, starting from the times long past.  Firstly you will notice that) We sent forth Noah unto his people and his era lasted for a period of nine hundred and fifty years.  (Then the period of Abraham started.)*  (His people opposed him strongly and) The result was that the deluge overtook them; as indeed they were the 'Zalimeen'.

In short, what I am trying to understand is how those verses of Quran are interpreted by the people who follow only Quran. As I know some of the folks here leave the understanding of Quran completely open to every individual and even close to say Prophets and Messsengers may also not know the full depth of understanding of verses of the scriptures. Hence I am quite interested to know how are you going to interpret these verses; taking them literally or as a metaphor or perhaps a mix of both--- and based on what logic and attained knowledge of Quran.

I have given an example translation from GA Pervez which is sort of complete extreme version of not taking things literally and my understanding differs from his but I quoted him as an example:
For example: His interpretation of the chapter 105: The elephand which atleast I grew up understanding from my elders is quite different: I was told to believe the literal translation that أَبَابِيلَ [not a known species of bird] i do not know carrying stones protected the sacred site by pelting the army, leading to their destruction.

See below:

SURAH 105 : Al-Fîl
1.(If these opponents are under the false impression that none can defeat a powerful and mighty force like theirs, you should tell them) "Have you not seen, with your own eyes how your Rabb dealt with the army which had elephants?
2."You saw with your own eyes how He rendered their artful planning utterly unsuccessful.
3. They had selected an unknown and unsuspected pass on the other side of the mountain, so that they could lead a sudden attack and take you unawares.) "But flocks of eagles and vultures (which normally fly over the armies to pick up remnants of dead bodies or other eatables) started hovering over their heads. In this way you realised from a distance, that some army was on the move behind the mountains (their secret plan was thus exposed).

4-5. "Therefore you climbed over the mountain and started pelting them with stones, crushing their army and making them to look like chewed-up stubble."
(All this happened before your very eyes.  When such a mighty army can be defeated, then what about yourself. All your secret plans will also fail.)

Appreciate GL and other to provide in short their understanding of the above apparant miraculous verses

Thanks

[How do I make peace with my own well-being when so many are in distress?]

Dear Friends,

We all know the hardships people face around the world. Today, I am not looking to spark another debate on who is to blame or take any actions or to question anyone's faith lack thereof based on the events unfolding globally. My question is more about personal peace.

Lately, I have been struggling. Even though I live a relatively comfortable life, when I see the images of suffering shared here below(news link as examples only), something does not sit right with me. How do I make peace with my own well-being when so many are in distress? How do we all handle this? It feels like we are worlds apart from those in pain.

I am not asking for pity or a lecture, just some insight or thoughts that might help me—and maybe others—understand this better. How do we reconcile with what is happening and our beliefs? How have others dealt with this in the past, even during events like the World Wars? I was not there, so it is hard to compare, but I am really seeking some guidance on how to navigate these feelings now.

Moreover, I have been wondering about prayer and divine intervention. Does prayer even make a difference in situations caused by human actions? Would God listen to prayers about consequences that we have brought upon ourselves? And importantly, this isn't about politics—it's about the innocent, the collateral damage like children and women. How do we reconcile with their fates? Should we consider their situation as "a punishment from God" or a "Test of their patience" or a mix of both? or do we even have the right?

In the scriptures, we read many nations have been punished and perished but those were a direct result of disobying their prophet and going against God. Now there is no more prophet and the deaths and punishements are perhaps 100s times far more than what we all read about previous nations, so how we read all this?

Discussing this from a distance is one thing, but what if we were right in the thick of it? Do you think our faith would falter under such strain? How do you believe you would cope if you found yourself in such dire circumstances?


Looking forward to your thoughts


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/25/middleeast/israel-gaza-children-starvation-malnutrition-intl/index.html

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2481266/children-gaza-we-want-world-show-us-their-tears

https://www.commondreams.org/news/gaza-famine

[Who or what initiates these random thoughts?]

Hi everyone,

I have been pondering a question that intertwines elements of psychology, neuroscience, and spiritual beliefs, and I would love to hear your thoughts and insights on it.

Where does the "thought process engine" of humans lie?

I mean, where do our thoughts originate from? We know the heart and brain are physical parts of our body, but when it comes to the logical, conscious, and subconscious aspects, things get more complex. Many say that the brain is responsible for our thought processes. But what about the role of the soul, the consciousness, or the subconscious?

Furthermore, can our thought process be influenced by external entities beyond just our friends and social interactions? Specifically, I am curious about the perspectives that involve spiritual or metaphysical influences. For instance, in various religious and spiritual traditions, there are concepts like angels, jinn, and different types of nafs (e.g., al-nafs al-ammara, al-nafs al-lawwama, and al-nafs al-mutma'inna) that might play a role.

Can these entities penetrate our thoughts or influence them?

For example, imagine person X is interacting with others. While doing so, X might have multiple thoughts per second – some aggressive, some intimate, some morally questionable. At the same time, X might have counter-thoughts that reject the initial impulses as wrong or immoral. This makes me wonder:

Who or what initiates these random thoughts?

Is it solely the brain's function, or do external spiritual entities (like angels, jinn, or even Satan) have the ability to influence our thoughts?

I am really curious to understand how different fields and beliefs converge on this topic. How has God designed human psychology to allow for these diverse and often conflicting thoughts?

I am asking this question because at the End (judgement) our fate will be justified solely by GOD based on actions that we have taken or not owing to those thoughts that shaped our life on this planet as long as we lived. Secondly how much influence does the so called Iblees or his companions have on our thought process factory? and how much influence God allows them to have? Just saying if we do good we will get reward and if we do bad, we be punished is after the fact... but before all this.. there is this creaition of those good or evil thoughts --- where does all this trigger from and by whom and on what basis?


Additionally,
Folks, now we see AI entering exponentially into human society:

So, do you think in the future there will be an AI-based thought processing chip that can be implanted into humans as a means of controlling their actions? We have seen that some medicines do affect human behavior... so does this mean man will eventually become so powerful that he will one day play God in human life?

Thank you

https://youtu.be/szXbuUlUhQ4

The BrainBridge head transplant machine is a groundbreaking innovation that leverages high-speed, high-precision robotics to conduct head and face transplants. This procedure can offer patients with severe medical conditions the opportunity for a fully functional body while preserving their consciousness and cognitive abilities

A friend recently shared their views on the Qur'an and its compilation, sparking a curiosity in me that I'd like to discuss here. They suggested that while the original divine revelations to Prophet Muhammad were the pure truth, the text might have been subject to tampering and distortion after his death. This brings up questions about the authenticity of the current Qur'an, especially considering that the compilation we have today was overseen by the third Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, decades after the Prophet's death. Given the historical context and the possibility of alterations by early Islamic leaders, whom some historical accounts suggest had varying degrees of sincerity and faithfulness, how can we reconcile these concerns with our faith in the Qur'an's authenticity?

Moreover Quranists, who focus solely on the Qur'an and largely disregard the Hadith and Sunnah that detail events after the Prophet's death and the actions of the caliphs, face a particular conundrum. If the Qur'an's compilation is historically linked to these figures and events that Quranists do not necessarily hold in the same regard as the Qur'an itself, how does this affect their acceptance of the Qur'an as we know it today? Else how did we end up with the copy of Quran we have today???

Additionally, they raised an intriguing point about Qur'an 15:9, 56:77-80, and 85:21-22, suggesting these verses refer to the "Preserved Tablet" (Lawh Mahfouz) and the reminder (dhikr), not necessarily to the physical copy of the Qur'an we hold today. This perspective hints at a distinction between the eternal, unaltered divine message and the physical text compiled by humans. They argue this could be seen as circular reasoning—a logical fallacy where the conclusion is included in the premise—especially if one assumes that the divine promise of protection explicitly applies to the physical Qur'an.

This friend also suggests that by accepting the current text without question, we might inadvertently commit shirk by placing blind faith in a potentially altered text. How do you view the issues of compilation, historical authenticity, and the logical structure of divine protection promises? How can we, especially Quranists who adhere strictly to the Qur'an, be certain of the text's purity and divine origin in light of these considerations? I'm eager to hear your thoughts and insights on these matters, given the deep respect and love we all hold for the Qur'an as the cornerstone of our faith.

Some of the verses mentioned in the Quran is talking about
[Quran 15:9] Absolutely, we have revealed the reminder, and, absolutely, we will preserve it.
[Quran 56:77-80] This is an honorable Quran. In a protected book. None can grasp it except the sincere. A revelation from the Lord of the universe.
[Quran 85:21-22] Indeed, it is a glorious Quran. In a preserved master tablet.


Note: I have already viewed the relevant thread below
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8314.msg22280#msg22280

I'm eager to learn more about the attributes of God, especially those that inspire love, hope, and Anger, Disappointment, Destroyer, Vengeful etc. I'm not looking for debates but rather positive insights and shared experiences. If you have scriptural references, personal stories, or teachings that highlight God's  nature, I'd be grateful to hear them.
I have asked my queries at https://chatnow.org and with a pastor and below is the chat transcript. Please go over the talk and if any one can answer me please.

Ray
How are you?
Fuzion
Hello Ray
Fuzion
am fine
Fuzion
yourself?
Raymond
I'm doing well.
Raymond
What's on your mind today?
Fuzion
Are you a human or a chatbot?
Raymond
I am a male, human, live in the US.
Raymond
You?
Fuzion
thank you
Fuzion
since you are a volunteer , may I know your qualifications to answer my queries about God?
Raymond
Yes, I have done years of study in the Bible, have walked with JESUS for over 30 years and know GOD personally.
Fuzion
That is just great
Raymond
Yes
Fuzion
may I begin asking my questions pls
Raymond
Sure
Raymond
Go ahead.
Fuzion
First one. God exhibits emotions such as happiness or anger, as illustrated by the punishment of Pharaoh through plagues. How can God, the Creator, exhibit characteristics that are traits of humans, the created? Being divine, should God not be beyond human emotions like joy or astonishment, since these are responses to occurrences? How is this possible?
Fuzion
God*
Raymond
In the Bible, GOD created humans "in HIS image".
Raymond
It stands to reason that the very emotions that we have and MUCH more come from HIM!
Fuzion
Yes, but considering a Creator who was not brought into existence by anyone, how can He experience emotions such as happiness or otherwise, as though He were also created? That's my query. I'm not disputing that we are made in His image. My question is, if He is uncreated, then how is it possible for Him to experience these emotions? For instance, if you suddenly become happy, it implies that something has happened of which you were previously unaware, leading to your happiness. This means you didn't foresee the event. However, God is omniscient, knowing everything past, present, and future. So, how can He be subject to such reactions
Raymond
You, by your argument, have stated that emotions are limited ONLY to humans. There is NOTHING in all of history, nor in ANY of the writings of ANY religions that state that a divine being should be emotion-less!
Raymond
Even JESUS, GOD in the human form, had great joy when something wonderful happened!
Raymond
Emotions are NOT just human, the indicate life!
Fuzion
In response to your point, I acknowledge your assertion that emotions are not exclusively human traits and that no historical or religious texts explicitly state that a divine being must be devoid of emotions. However, my argument hinges on the nature of these emotions themselves. Emotions, as we understand them, often arise as reactions to events or revelations, implying a transition from unawareness to awareness. Given that God is all-knowing, possessing complete knowledge of the past, present, and future, the concept of God experiencing emotions like happiness or sadness seems contradictory. For if one knows everything, there would presumably be no surprise or new information to elicit such emotional responses. Therefore, my concern is how the attribute of omniscience aligns with the experience of emotions, which typically denote a change in awareness or state.
Raymond
Your point may seemingly be valid, however, again, you are ascribing to GOD, a limitless, divine being, emotions AS YOU understand them in this world! Anger, for example, is usually impulsive and very rarely correct. GOD's anger is NEVER that way, never impulsive and NEVER incorrectly applied. For you or me, finite beings, to state that GOD cannot have emotions is similar to an ant stating that he fully comprehends the stars in the heavens!
Fuzion
it is evidently clear we approach the understanding of divine emotions from distinct viewpoints.
Raymond
Correct!
Raymond
I follow the Bible.
Fuzion
While I recognize the infinite nature of God compared to our finite existence, my inquiry seeks not to limit God but to understand the compatibility of omniscience with emotional responses as we know them
Raymond
Where are your opinions of GOD from?
Fuzion
let me please continue then i shall reply on that
Fuzion
If God's anger is not impulsive, as you've described, then how do we interpret the series of plagues that were inflicted upon Pharaoh and his people as a form of punishment? This action, at first glance, may appear to be a direct response fueled by anger or retribution towards Pharaoh's defiance. However, considering your explanation that divine anger is fundamentally different from human anger—never impulsive and always just?
Fuzion
My understanding of God is still evolving, and I sincerely hope for your kindness and patience as I navigate through my changing thoughts. It would be greatly appreciated if you could engage with my inquiries with an open mind, rather than through the traditional lens often associated with Christian perspectives.
Fuzion
I have something more to add please
Fuzion
Occasionally, I find myself contemplating the possibility that we, as humans, might be the creation of a higher, more advanced being, and our existence could be akin to simulations or experiments conducted by these beings. It's intriguing to observe how similar patterns of emotions and behaviors—such as love, despair, anger, and conflict—recur through the centuries, suggesting a cyclical nature to our existence without significant progress or direction. While some might interpret life as a test of our perseverance by God, I'm curious about the purpose behind it all. What does God seek to achieve through this? Please understand, this isn't meant to disrespect or challenge divine intention but is a reflection of my genuine curiosity. At times, it feels as though we're akin to robots, executing a predetermined set of tasks, and I'm eager to explore and understand the broader significance of our roles and experiences.
Fuzion
Thanks
Raymond
Fortunately, GOD has left us with the written Word (the Bible), that explains MUCH of HIM and of HIS divine purpose.
Raymond
Consider these verses:
Raymond
Following:
Raymond
 He is the God who made the whole world and everything in it. He is the Lord of the land and the sky. He does not live in temples that men build! This God is the One who gives life, breath, and everything else to people. He does not need any help from them. He has everything he needs. God began by making one man. From him came all the different people who live everywhere in the world. He decided exactly when and where they must live.  God wanted them to look for him and perhaps search all around for him and find him. But he is not far from any of us: 28 'By his power we live and move and exist.' Some of your own poets have said: 'For we are his children.'
Raymond
So, you must not think that God is like something that people imagine or make.
Fuzion
I assure you, I have diligently explored the religious texts of the Torah, as well as the Old and New Testament, and have observed instances where God is portrayed as a force of destruction, focused on punishing people. There are numerous verses that, to the common observer, may raise questions about the necessity of subjecting humans to such extensive trials and suffering. Please understand, my intention is not to selectively interpret these scriptures, but rather to seek a comprehensive and holistic understanding. I'm genuinely trying to grasp the broader picture and the overarching messages within these texts, and I would greatly appreciate your insights and guidance on this journey.
Raymond
Understood.
Raymond
In the past, people did not understand God, but God ignored this. But now, God tells everyone in the world to change his heart and life. 31 God has decided on a day that he will judge all the world. He will be fair. He will use a man to do this. God chose that man long ago. And God has proved this to everyone by raising that man from death!"
Fuzion
I appreciate your perspective and the insights you've shared. However, I feel that our conversation is steering towards Jesus Christ, while my questions are centered on the nature and attributes of God. My intent is not to deny Jesus or his significance in any way. Rather, I'm seeking to understand the complexities of God's character and how they align with the themes of mercy, justice, and love that are so central to our discussions. It's the essence and attributes of God that I find myself pondering over, and I hope we can explore this together. Please try to see where my confusion lies—it's in grasping the broader essence of God's nature, not in questioning the role or existence of Jesus
Raymond
Unfortunately for all who do not wish to turn to JESUS, HE is the only way to GOD.
Raymond
HE Himself said that HE is the way to GOD!
Raymond
If we study JESUS, we will understand GOD!
Raymond
HIS love, HIS compassion, HIS holiness and even HIS anger.
Raymond
Did you observe JESUS' response in the temple, with the whip?
Fuzion
I respect your viewpoint and the conviction with which you hold it. However, I would like to gently bring into consideration the vast and diverse tapestry of human civilization, including ancient cultures like the Chinese and the Indus Valley, which have flourished for over 5,000 years. These civilizations have their own rich spiritual and philosophical traditions, which have evolved without reference to Adam, Eve, Abraham, Noah, Moses, or Jesus. The essence of my reflection is on the inclusivity of God's love and the vastness of human experience across different times and geographies. To suggest that the spiritual journeys and beliefs of countless individuals outside of the Judeo-Christian tradition are in vain seems quite a stark standpoint. It is my belief that all of us are children of God, embraced by a divine love that transcends our understanding and encompasses all beings, irrespective of the path they follow. I hold these thoughts with the utmost respect for your beliefs and teachings, and my intention is not to dispute but to express a longing for a broader understanding of divine grace that acknowledges the rich diversity of human faith and spirituality
Fuzion
In the temple, Jesus made a whip of cords and drove out the merchants and money changers, overturning their tables, and declared, "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of robbers".
Raymond
Exactly!
Raymond
The anger of GOD is not easily aroused. It's not an impulsive emotion such as that of an abusive husband or dad.
Raymond
JESUS viewed the temple, saw the disgrace, then left.
Raymond
Much later, HE came back and used the whip!
Raymond
That is how GOD is!
Raymond
HE is FIRST merciful!
Fuzion
I understand the significance of Jesus' actions and teachings, including his response in the temple. However, it's important to remember that not everyone is familiar with these stories or has been influenced by the Judeo-Christian tradition. Many people and civilizations have lived and passed away without knowledge of these events or teachings, through no fault of their own. Suggesting that their lives or beliefs were in vain because they didn't know of Jesus feels like a difficult stance to reconcile with the compassionate and inclusive teachings found in many spiritual traditions, including Christianity. I believe in a God who understands and loves all His creations, regardless of the time or place of their birth.
Raymond
That is why I sent you these verses: "In the past, people did not understand God, but God ignored this. But now, God tells everyone in the world to change his heart and life. 31 God has decided on a day that he will judge all the world. He will be fair. He will use a man to do this. God chose that man long ago. And God has proved this to everyone by raising that man from death!""
Raymond
GOD was patient for thousands of years!
Raymond
But NOW, we must recognize our guilt!
Raymond
We must turn from our sin!
Raymond
We must turn to JESUS, the ultimate sacrifice!
Fuzion
I appreciate the verses you shared and the message they convey. But It's also true that, according to many religious teachings, God has communicated with humanity through various messengers throughout history, offering guidance and opportunities for redemption. This suggests that God has not simply ignored people but has actively engaged with them, demonstrating patience and a desire for understanding. Recognizing the multitude of messengers sent by God across different times and cultures, it seems clear that divine engagement with humanity is complex and multifaceted, rather than a matter of being overlooked or ignored. I understand and respect your emphasis on the significance of Jesus in understanding God's message and intentions for humanity. While I do accept Jesus and his teachings, my current exploration is aimed at delving deeper into the nature and attributes of God. The essence of my confusion lies not in the acceptance of Jesus but in trying to reconcile certain aspects of God's character with the broader scope of divine compassion and justice as portrayed across various traditions. Your perspective has been enlightening, and I value our discussion. However, I'm still navigating through my thoughts to fully grasp the complexity of God's nature. This journey of understanding is important to me, and I'm grateful for the insights you've provided, even as I continue to seek clarity on these matters.
Raymond
Thank you for chatting tonight!
Fuzion
Thank you so much

After years in traditional employment, I'm ready to embark on a new venture towards becoming my own boss and am seeking like-minded individuals interested in this journey. If you're also contemplating the leap into entrepreneurship and wish to exchange insights or support, I invite you to message me privately. Let's explore the possibilities that align with our shared values and aspirations, helping each other to succeed in our entrepreneurial goals.
Cheers

[filth away from you,]

Certain verses have prompted me to contemplate the true purpose and message that God intended for everyone, not just those specifically addressed.
For example:

33:33
Remain in your homes, and do not display (your) beauty as it used to be displayed in the days of earlier ignorance; and establish Salāh, and pay Zakāh, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah only intends to keep (all sorts of) filth away from you, O members of the family (of the prophet), and to make you pure through a perfect purification

3:61
Tell whoever disputes with you on this matter after true knowledge has come to you: 'Come! Let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, and then let us pray together and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie.

11:73: They said, "Do you marvel at Allah's command? Allah's mercy and His blessings have always been upon you, O people of the house. Surely, He is Praiseworthy, Glorious." [[ this verse is continuation of the previous where Abraham family 

Furthermore, in Sunni Islam, the conclusion of every prayer involves sending blessings to the family of the Prophet, just as blessings were sent to the family of Prophet Ibrahim.
https://www.islamicfinder.org/duas/masnoon/darood-e-ibraheemi/#:~:text=Darood%20%2De%2D%20Ibraheemi%20%2D%201&text=O%20Allah%2C%20bestow%20Your%20favor,You%20are%20Praiseworthy%2C%20Most%20Glorious.


Numerous scholars have cited the aforementioned verses to highlight the reverence and sanctity of the Ahle-Bait (the family/kin of the Prophet).

Simultaneously, the Quran contains various verses that emphasize the importance of strict adherence to Taqwah (piety) and impartiality towards the wives and sons of the several Prophets. Therefore, the question arises as to why certain verses seem to display leniency or favoritism towards Prophet Mohammad's immediate family.

I am also posing this question because the idea of Ahle-Bait has been at the heart of a significant divide between Sunni and Shia Muslims, leading to a long and violent history. However my main question is true interpretation of the verses mentioned above which appears to show favouritism of some sort.

What is your opinion about these verses so I may understood their meaning from pure Quranic point of view?


Thanks

The verses 36:20 ~ 32 suggests in some literal sense that a specific person was killed for telling his nation to listen to the prophet who was sent and once he died, immediately doors of paradise were open and he was sort of wishing that he could tell the people on earth about the reward he got it so instantly because he wished had his nation listened to him.....or he was an exception where God told him that you are forgiven even before the judgement day and you will join the ranks of  honourable people after Day of Qayama.

In later case, its quite self explanatory. However if there was any other literal/physical meaning, would that imply that the Paradise already existed in reality in todays time with all its glory and bounties and that exceptionally a person can enter it (similar to those who are martyred in God's path and were given food).
Which means there is LIFE even after this Life immediately after they part and we are not supposed to call them dead but we just cant perceive that their eternal life has already started vs those who are in deep sleep and will be resurrected on day of judgement.

Does that also mean that One can always pray to almighty for the kind of life as per 2:154(as there will be no waiting period for him for the judgement/day) unless we are not suppose to take this verse as literal either.

This could also signify existence of a different world/earth where paradise exists (could be same from where Adam/Eve asked to leave) and where the above people are being sent to live for ever.


Thanks

Dear All.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wwQPst33LI

Is there a connection to large scale natural disasters with God's wrath or he being unhappy and punish such nations/people because of their bad deeds?
Because if yes, then we can find many examples where similar or worse nations are flourishing and no harm comes to them ever....
and if there is no relation, how can a  believer reconcile with such large scale disasters.. as surely everything that happens is with God permission.

In the past we noticed a pattern from several verses, that a prophet is sent to a nation, and that nation eventually disobey the messenger/ message and as a result god destroying that nation. It is also possible that natural disasters did also occur even with those nations but since the population and infrastructure is very small, the destruction did not have such an  impact. Moreover in case of God destroying,,, the whole nation/town is vanished from face of earth unlike natural disasters  (hence the reason behind what is their -natural disasters- explanation from Quran or is it just normal earth/universe Business as usual- part of the creation events)

Another twist of the story. Non-believers are commenting of several forums taking a religious swipe that these events happen in majority muslim areas and hence God is punishing them. How does one responds to such comments?because apparently it appears so.

Note: i already discussed this topic with a member from this forum (no names) but i wanted to know other views as well. hence the question.