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I was wondering what you guys think of people that don't know the quran but still believe in god and do good, but are having sex before marriage, are they not on the right path according to quran even though their not intentionally disobeying god because they don't know otherwise?

Dear Kb,

I cannot read the quran in arabic so I wouldn't be able to tell you the definition of those words according to quran. I think the correct way of knowing the meanings of words in quran would be for you to go learn the language of quran instead of relying on others interpretations of words and dictionaries.

As Sytalls has mentioned, it is impossible for someone to be born knowing the complete Classical Arabic language needed to understand Quran. You have to learn it from a teacher or a dictionary and then see which particular meaning of a word has been used in Quran according to the context and its general usage in Quran. Even modern Arabs do not know the meaning of some of the Classical Arabic words used in Quran without the help of a standard Classical Arabic dictionary. Foreigners have to learn the Quranic language through a teacher or a dictionary too. Please go through Sytalls excellent post and then answer the following:

1. Please tell me the meaning of the following words in Quran: "wa", "laa", "innahu", and "kaana".
2. How do you learn the language of Quran without using any Classical Arabic dictionary, or grammar book or a human teacher?
3. How will you find out what "zina" means in Quran using Quran only?

To help you out I will give you all the "zina" verses from the Quran:

17:33 ولا تقربوا الزنى إنه كان فحشة وساء سبيلا

24:3 الزانية والزاني فاجلدوا كل وحد منهما مائة جلدة ولا تأخذكم بهما رأفة في دين الله إن كنتم تؤمنون بالله واليوم الاخر وليشهد عذابهما طائفة من المؤمنين

24:4 الزاني لا ينكح إلا زانية أو مشركة والزانية لا ينكحها إلا زان أو مشرك وحرم ذلك على المؤمنين

25:69 والذين لا يدعون مع الله إلها اخر ولا يقتلون النفس التي حرم الله إلا بالحق ولا يزنون ومن يفعل ذلك يلق أثاما

60:13 يأيها النبي إذا جاءك المؤمنت يبايعنك على أن لا يشركن بالله شيءا ولا يسرقن ولا يزنين ولا يقتلن أولدهن ولا يأتين ببهتن يفترينه بين أيديهن وأرجلهن ولا يعصينك في معروف فبايعهن واستغفر لهن الله إن الله غفور رحيم

65:2 يأيها النبي إذا طلقتم النساء فطلقوهن لعدتهن وأحصوا العدة واتقوا الله ربكم لا تخرجوهن من بيوتهن ولا يخرجن إلا أن يأتين بفحشة مبينة وتلك حدود الله ومن يتعد حدود الله فقد ظلم نفسه لا تدري لعل الله يحدث بعد ذلك أمرا

Don't just criticize me without any base. Please answer my questions. YOU CANNOT USE ANY DICTIONARY OR ANY BOOK OTHER THAN QURAN OR ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING TO FIND OUT THE MEANINGS.

The way you have written your post makes it clear that you have never made any attempt to find out what different words in Quran mean. People like you just sit there and criticize others without making any actual attempts to find out what Quranic words mean.

If you cannot answer my questions then please do not pass your judgement on others because you will be accountable to The God for making false accusations.

Regards,

Tanveer

Tanveer  I did not pass any judgement on you, go back and read my posts, I simply just asked you some questions and told you what I thought, I never said you have to be born knowing the complete classical arabic, I know that you have to try and learn it somehow, I am just suggesting to you to try learning the language of quran so you can verify the correct meanings of quranic words using the context of quran to help you, thanks for giving me the zina verses but I don't know how to read arabic yet so I wouldn't be able to tell you, isn't there a verse in quran that describes what zina is? how else would we know the correct meaning if we don't use the quran alone? like lets say u look in dictionary and you get like 5 different definitions of a word in quran, tell me how would you know what the correct meaning is?

Dear Kb,

why are you quoting these dictionaries? did god tell you to follow these to get your definition of words in the quran or did he tell you to follow quran alone??

Firstly, I did not quite understand what you said, because English is not my first language. Please define the English words you used and tell me what they mean.

Secondly, please tell me how you can find out the meaning of all the Arabic words used in the Quran, especially if you do not know Arabic. For example tell me what is the meaning of "wa" in Quran. Also tell me what "qul" means and what "zina" means. Please do not just tell me what it means, prove it also.

Thirdly, please tell me how trying to find out the meaning of a word in Quran is "not following Quran?"

If you cannot answer all of my 3 questions then please do not bother to reply. Oh, did I forget to mention that to answer all my questions you CANNOT use or quote from a dictionary. I will not accept your or any other person's authority for what you tell me, without a valid reference or definitive proof.

Thanking you in anticipation,

Tanveer

I am not saying trying to find out a meaning of a word in quran is not following quran but if you are using dictionaries that people wrote to come up with a meaning of a word in the quran rather then taking the literal meaning of a word as the quran explains it then are you really following the quran alone or are you following other sources as your relgious guidance also?  I cannot read the quran in arabic so I wouldn't be able to tell you the definition of those words according to quran. I think the correct way of knowing the meanings of words in quran would be for you to go learn the language of quran instead of relying on others interpretations of words and dictionaries.

[sexual intercourse]

Salaamun alaikum all,

The word "ZINA" according to dictionary of the Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar means adultery or fornication.

ADULTERY means the following:

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

 Adultery \A*dul"ter*y\, n.; pl. Adulteries. [L. adulterium.
    See Advoutry.]
    1. The unfaithfulness of a married person to the marriage
       bed; sexual intercourse by a married man with another than
       his wife, or voluntary sexual intercourse by a married
       woman with another than her husband.


From WordNet (r) 1.6 :

 adultery
      n : extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes
          with marriage relations; "adultery is often cited as
          grounds for divorce" [syn: criminal conversation, fornication]


From Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary :

 Adultery
    conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit
    intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a
    woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and
    an unmarried woman was fornication. Adultery was regarded as a
    great social wrong, as well as a great sin.

FORNICATION means the following:

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :

 Fornication \For`ni*ca"tion\, n. [F. fornication, L.
    fornicatio.]
    1. Unlawful sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried
       person; the act of such illicit sexual intercourse between
       a man and a woman as does not by law amount to adultery.
 
    Note: In England, the offense, though cognizable in the
          ecclesiastical courts, was not at common law subject to
          secular prosecution. In the United States it is
          indictable in some States at common law, in others only
          by statute. --Whartyon.
 
    2. (Script.)
       (a) Adultery.
       (b) Incest.
       (c) Idolatry.


From WordNet (r) 1.6 :

 fornication
      n 1: voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to
           each other
      2: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes
         with marriage relations; "adultery is often cited as
         grounds for divorce" [syn: adultery, criminal
         conversation]

SEXUAL INTERCOURSE means the following:

From WordNet (r) 1.6 :

 sexual intercourse
      n : the act of sexual procreation between a man and a woman; the
          man's penis is inserted into the woman's vagina and
          excited until orgasm and ejaculation occur

So as I have clearly demonstrated, zina is both adultery and fornication involving extramarital or pre-marital illicit sexual intercourse. So sexual intercourse between gf/bf is ZINA and is prohibited.

Kissing could be sexual and nonsexual. Sexual kissing leads to sexual arousal and nonsexual kissing (e.g. mother kissing son) does not lead to sexual arousal. IMO Sexual kissing if performed extramarital or pre-marital (e.g. gf/bf) would be one of the FAHISHATUN and is prohibited. Similarly IMO oral sex would be FAHISHATUN also and is prohibited if performed extramarital or pre-marital. Finally IMO anal sex is FAHISHATUN and is forbidden in any situation.

May Allah help us avoid zina and fawahish.

why are you quoting these dictionaries? did god tell you to follow these to get your definition of words in the quran or did he tell you to follow quran alone??

this article doesn't prove a thing, it can be made up, don't believe anything unless you verify it for yourself
peace

Peace,

He?s a humble suggestion. A dictionary is fine if you are simply trying to learn to speak a language but understanding how God uses a word is different. A good example is ?worship?. If you look in an English dictionary and compare God?s usage you?ll see that God does not enjoin worship but service. Imagine a master whose servants don?t serve they just worship. Doesn?t do the master any good does it? Get your meanings from the ?light? of the reading.

I totally agree with you, I am trying to find out the true meaning according to the quran, doesn't it say in quran that there is a detailed explanation of everything? if you go look in arabic dictionaries you might get alot of different  meanings

anyone do a study on what does the word translated as worship mean exactly according to quran alone?

Peace be upon you ,

What is LOVE?

I see it is the force of attraction (gravity is the physical understanding of it) which is pulling at  ALL of the parts of the WHOLE(the GOD) to come together.

Everything started as ONE and is being callled back to this ONENESS. We are the Gods and to HIM  we are returning.

Love is not a "feeling" that you fall in and out of , nor is the God equal  to any of His forces but HIGH above them.

I am intersted in hearing all views.

how can you say we are the gods? I don't understand that

if i copy and cell a cd im getting paid for the service.  i think as long as you don't lie and say they are the orginal then you are giving full measure

peace kb

and if I steal your car and rent it out to people overnight then return it in the morning thats ok too - cos Allah never forbade overnight car theft and I'm not claiming to own the car I'm just getting paid for the service.....  

your example doesn't compare to what were talking about, your actually taking something from ones posession as in mine i am copying something

[11:84 And to Median was their brother Shu'ayb, he said: "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him, and do not give short in the measure and weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding."11:85 "And my people, give full measure and weight with justice, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting."]

However like you KB (and perhaps you too Mazzy?) I tend to  feel that if I buy something and pass a copy onto someone without money changing hands then thats not stealing.  This is the case with file sharing.  But I'm not 100% certain of this - ie in my heart I  have some doubts and because of the following verses I stopped downloading free music....


11:84   And to Median was their brother Shu'ayb, he said: "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him, and do not give short in the measure and weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding."
11:85   "And my people, give full measure and weight with justice, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting."

I feel that if the quran never touched on licensing and copyrighting and anything dealing with that subject then how can it be stealing? if i go  and buy a cd or dvd then want to make copies for whatever reason it should be perfectly fine cuz i own it, i didnt steal it, and if god never mentioned anything in quran about copyrights and licenses then i would think its not stealing because god never said obey these laws,  if i copy and cell a cd im getting paid for the service.  i think as long as you don't lie and say they are the orginal then you are giving full measure