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Messages - Layth

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Discuss Latest World News / Writer Kassim Ahmad Passes
« on: October 09, 2017, 10:17:22 PM »
I just read that Kassim Ahmad from Malaysia has passed away at the age of 82.

Kassim is best known for his work “Hadith: A Reevaluation”, a critical study on the authority of the Hadith as a source of Islam.

May our Lord accept his soul with mercy and admit him to the gardens of Eden for his struggle and his work...

Topic has been locked. Please maintain respect and peace amongst this community!

Introduce Yourself / Re: New here , plus a quick question
« on: October 07, 2017, 10:22:10 PM »
Salam Betterlife,

Welcome to the forum :)

We are "Muslims", not "quranists". The sects already distinguish themselves by calling themselves Sunni or Shia, so we don't need to worry about the name "Muslim" being confused with their idolatry.

As for your question, you have answered it yourself. Throw away the Hadith and what you have left is a message of justice, honor, respect, and dignity for all of God's creation.


1) First of all, pls someone explain me verse 2:178, does it mean that Quran allows innocents to be killed for revenge? However in other verses it says killing innocents is a great sin.

No. It says that the free shall stand for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.

i.e. no person can be substituted regardless of their gender or rank.

Qissas = Impartiality

2:178 O you who believe, impartiality has been decreed for you in the case of those who are killed; the free as the free, and the slave as the slave, and the female as the female. Whoever is forgiven anything by his brother, then it is to be followed with kindness and goodness towards him; that is an alleviation from your Lord, and a mercy. Whoever transgresses after that, he will have a painful retribution.


could u pls explain how did u come to the conclusion that there is no soul until 6 month? it talks about weaning period being 30 month

46:15 And We enjoined the human being to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says: "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted."

31:14 And We enjoined the human being regarding his parents. His mother bore him with hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two calendar years. You shall give thanks to Me, and to your parents. To Me is the final destiny.

Weaning + Bearing = 30 Months

Weaning Alone = 24 months

Bearing = 30-24 = 6 Months

These verses refer to "the human being," therefore, the conclusion drawn is that any pregnancy below 6 months does not categorize the fetus as a "human being" making abortion a choice and not murder.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Aggression permitted?
« on: September 16, 2017, 08:14:19 AM »

  What happened in the Holy Land was also a peaceful process, until the Children of Israel were barred from entering a land which God had given them licence to settle (i.e. you can treat it as reclaiming occupied land under the Quran's laws of warfare.

If you look at 5:22, you will note that the Children of Israel describe the inhabitants of the Holy Land as "Jabareen". This word denotes force and aggression (from "JBR" which is "to force").  The attribute is always used negatively in the Quran when applied to people. This is why the conversation in 5:23 turns to the two wise men suggesting that they enter by storming the gates.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Aggression permitted?
« on: September 16, 2017, 03:37:54 AM »

When I look at the rules of engagement in the Quran, I see it is permissible to fight to establish religious freedom, ward off persecution, and to defend against the aggression of others. If I’m missing any please let me know.

You can fight against aggression/attack (self defense), but not to establish religious freedom, nor to ward off persecution.

As for Moses, if you look at the entire episode with Pharaoh, Moses kept asking for the Children of Israel to be set free and allowed to leave Egypt. He never called to arms, nor did he try to overthrow Pharaoh - it was Pharaoh chasing them that got him killed.  What happened in the Holy Land was also a peaceful process, until the Children of Israel were barred from entering a land which God had given them licence to settle (i.e. you can treat it as reclaiming occupied land under the Quran's laws of warfare.

As for Solomon, that is a completely different set of rules as he is one of the very few people who had the title "Khalifa" (having inherited from David 38:26, 27:16) which means he is God's representative on Earth. Solomon was able to speak "in the name of God" (27:30) and thus order and give commands that human-human laws do not allow.

Projects / Conferences / Events / Re: Arabic Text Quran
« on: September 15, 2017, 06:00:42 AM »

Here is a quote from page VII

It was the design of the Almighty to resurrect this particular group from the Children of Israel to
manifest His signs. Thus, once they refused to kill themselves, God made them die anyway and then
resurrected them to make His will done…Thus the paradox is removed since God is the only One who
may take life as it is His gift to begin with.

Then why Moses asked them to take their lives. Did he not knew that taking life by humans is forbidden.

فَٱقۡتُلُوٓاْ أَنفُسَكُمۡ ذَٲلِكُمۡ خَيۡرٌ۬ لَّكُمۡ عِندَ بَارِٮِٕكُمۡ

So "iqtaloo" yourself that is better for you with your Maker.....

In 4:29 killing yourself is forbidden but in 2:54 it is commanded. What is missing in our translations?

I have replaced the Preface section that was quoted above with the following to improve on the subject:

3. Words Can be Lost Over Time

The Arabic language goes back at least 2,200 years to the time of the Nabataeans, as an offshoot of Aramaic. Whilst the Qur’an is only 1,400 years old, there are still some changes that have undergone the use of words in the language as with any language over time. When faced with such a choice where there appears to be a discrepancy in a given meaning, let the other verses where such word is used be your guide: 

[Yusuf Ali Translation]: “Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered (Ummy) Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.” (Qur’an 7:157)

The word ‘Ummy’ in today’s Arabic dictionaries and common use refers to a person who: ‘cannot read or write.’ Therefore, when reading the Qur’an, the common understanding given is that the Prophet was an illiterate man who brought this magnificent text from inspiration, adding to his status as a great man! However, when we look at use of the word in other verses, we come to an understanding that the Prophet could very well read and write, but that he was a ‘Gentile’ who had no knowledge of previous scriptures:

“If they debate with you, then say: “I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me.” And say to those who have received the Book and the gentiles (Ummyeen): “Have you submitted?” If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and God is Seer over the servants. ” (Qur’an 3:20)

Another word that has had its meaning diverted over time is the name of God: ‘Al-Rahman,’ which has come to indicate ‘Most Gracious/All Merciful/Beneficent.’ This name is thought to be a synonym of the other name widely used in the Qur’an ‘Al-Raheem’, however, we know from the Qur’an that the Arab speakers of the time did not recognize this name, let alone its meaning:’

“And if they are told: “Prostrate to (Al-Rahman).” They say: “And what is (Al-Rahman)? Shall we prostrate to what you order us?” And it increases their aversion. (Qur’an 25:60)

The word use of the Qur’an gives us a completely different meaning for this name, indicating that it is a name of power and might, used to instil fear in God’s enemies—not mercy and compassion—best translated as ‘The Almighty’:

“So she took a veil to separate her from them, so We sent Our Spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a mortal in all similarity. She said: “I seek refuge with the Almighty (Al-Rahman) from you if you are righteous.” (Qur’an 19:17-18)

“My father, do not serve the devil. For the devil was ever disobedient to the Almighty (Al-Rahman). My father, I fear that a retribution will inflict you from the Almighty (Al-Rahman) and that you will become an ally to the devil.” (Qur’an 19:44-45)

Projects / Conferences / Events / Re: Arabic Text Quran
« on: September 15, 2017, 05:51:39 AM »
Salam Novice,

My purpose of pointing out this issue in your interpretation was that we all reflect on the verse and see what is the best interpretation.

Your interpretation could be fine for yourself but don't forget that you are printing it and posting it on line for others as well, who might not know Arabic. It makes them dependent upon your interpretation if they follow you.

It is not a matter of who is correct and who is not but who is trying to understand Quran using his/her God gifted faculties of reason and logic. In the end it is not our interpretation that matters but the message in Quran.

Your post and that of our family on this forum are always appreciated and everything said is taken into account.

The best we can all do is stay true to the burden and responsibility of transmitting His words and messages.

It is our duty to make sure that we are all true to this task and that we do not let people, or society, or political correctness, stand in the way of the transmission...

The fact of the matter is that the message itself will never be appealing to all people:

10:15 And when Our clear revelations were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said: "Bring a Qur'an other than this, or change it!" Say: "It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!"

Projects / Conferences / Events / Re: Arabic Text Quran
« on: September 14, 2017, 02:54:33 AM »
Dear Huruf,

One should read the whole of Qur'an and not act s if one had found the final proof that Gods orders (it is not God, by the way, it would be at the most Musa) people to kill other people even after they repent, which is weird and not God's sunna and God always keeps to His word and does not say kill today and tomorrow do not kill.

From your statement, I must ask the same question of you: Have you read the Quran?

The God of the Quran is both "Almighty" and "Merciful"...

His wrath is immediate, and His mercy is infinite...

7:155 And Moses selected from his people seventy men for Our appointed time; so when the earthquake seized them, he said: "My Lord, if You wished You could have destroyed them before this, and me as well. Will you destroy us for what the foolish among us have done? It is all Your test, You misguide with it whom You please and You guide with it whom You please. You are our Supporter, so forgive us and have mercy on us; You are the Best Forgiver."

You still seem to be mixing "God-Human" interaction with "Human-Human" interaction (the two are mutually exclusive).

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