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Messages - khal

#1
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 86:7
June 07, 2014, 07:41:07 PM
these are just my thoughts excerpt from an article I've written. May be, this may help

He was created from a fluid (maa), ejected (daafikeen), emerging from between the backbone (sulb) and the ribs/breastbone (taraaib).

The two most controversial verses about creation is certainly found in Chapter At-Tariq verses 6 and 7, the favorite verses of the critics of the Quran who have found there their ultimate proof that Quran should be debunked as it bears a ?proved? scientifically incorrect verse. Just do a google search on that topic and hundreds of pages will open up. On the one hand, staunch opponents? arguments are clear and easily comprehensible. On the other hand, muslims are trying to refute (very badly) by all means through linguistic acrobatics about the real meaning of the words ?sulb? and ?taraaib?. Some gave scientific explanations, with schematic drawings as support, that sperm or rather what produces sperm, the testes, originally come, during our foetal development, from the abdomen. These arguments can?t convince anyone except themselves. The discomfort is more than palpable. Let us analyse the two verses especially the key words.

Maa: Is usually used for water but the word can also be used for other fluids especially a nourishing fluid. The Quran uses it both ways even if, most of the time, it refers to ?water descending from the sky? or rain. The word is also used for the pure water of paradise (47:15) compared to the scalding fluid like murky oil in Hell (14:16, 18:29). In 32:8 the worthless water may refer to semen. It is the context of the verse that gives the meaning. Therefore, most people have understood the maa in 86:6 as semen, Muslim commentators and their opponents, altogether.

Daafikeen: Usually translated as gushing or ejected. Sometimes it is translated as emitted which is wrong as the word connotes a movement with force or pressure.

Taraaib: Used for the chest region where the necklace hangs and has come to mean the breastbone and the adjacent ribs especially the upper ribs. According to some Arabic experts, the word is used mainly for women. In a desperate try to give a sense to these verses, some have tried to attach the word to female genitalia, of course, without proper references. My respected confrere and countryman, Dr. Maurice Bucaille, favored this explanation but seemed very uneasy about it.

Soulb : Used for the backbone even if the definition of loins has been given. The latter makes a complete non sense in the verse. The two are not even opposite to each other. To speak of a region between loins and breastbone is, as if, we are looking for a country between England and Australia! God does not lack precision. Backbone here makes complete sense.

It is now clear that the region formed between backbone and the breastbone and ribs stated here is the thorax and not the abdomen, neither the pelvis nor the scrotum. The problem is that most commentators focus on 86:7 as they have taken for granted that the fluid mentioned in 86:6 is semen. Ask any doctor about a gushing fluid emerging between backbone and breastbone: He will tell you that it is certainly blood not semen. Yes, the maa that is ejected every second at each systolic contraction of the left ventricle of the heart emerges right here through the semilunar valves into the aorta and brings a nourishing fluid to all parts of the body, especially to the uterine wall of the mother bearing the decidual membrane which consists the maternal part of the placenta where the embryo will extract all the necessary nutrients for development. Blood is an essential component for creation. Up to now, we have got, after fertilization, the architectural plans ? the DNA- of the future baby but creation does not stop here. Remember 39:6, creation continues in the womb, creation upon creation. It?s the mother who, through her blood ejected from her heart every second, will bring the necessary nutrients, vitamins, minerals, water and of course oxygen for creation to proceed and by the same way will evacuate all the toxic materials and carbon dioxide from the embryo. Even if, it should be taken more allegorically in the same way as creation from dust, water, clay or sperm, there is no contradiction to science.

#2
General Issues / Questions / Re: 1 Intro + 113 Surahs???
February 20, 2014, 04:48:07 PM
Brother bender, this does not work for gold copper or any other metal or element found in the Quran. You will notice that iron is also mentionned 4 times in the Quran and of course only work for one. I think you are confusing with the theory of the submitters who find 19 everywhere and want to set a mathematical code. There is no code but only signs that the Book is the Truth.
If you find it a 'trick' i'll advise you 'An introduction to mathematical philosophy' by Bertrand Russell if you are not aware of the principles behind Mathematics and see if mathematics rely on tricks.
#3
General Issues / Questions / Re: 1 Intro + 113 Surahs???
February 19, 2014, 06:03:00 PM
Peace the Nabster The quran is divided in surahs and verses and in each verse there is a certain number of words. To understand it well, see the quran as  composed of 113 boxes (surahs)on top of each other, each box has got a variable number of drawers (each representing a verse in the surah) and in each drawer a variable number of sheets of paper (each representing a word of the verse)

Now if we want to see where is the word al hadid, not in other 3 places where the word appears in the Q but this particular one found in Surah Al Hadid that by which ' God would distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers in the unseen', we see that it appears in 56:26 (57:25 in conventional numbering but I've explained why i've arrived at this new numbering) and that it is the thirteenth word of this 26th verse comprising of 28 words. Lets get back to our boxes drawers and sheets of paper. If you want to reach the 13th sheet of the 26th drawer of th 56th box, you will have to take out

- 55 boxes to reach the 56th box

- 25 drawers  to reach the 26th drawer but remember its only part of a box that contain 30 drawers (30 verses)

so till now you have taken out (55 + 25/30) box

- and 12 sheets of paper to reach the 13th sheet in a drawer that contains 28 sheets that is 12/28 of a drawer and here a drawer is 1/30 of a box so you will have to remove 12/28*1/30

In total you will have to remove 55 + 25/30 + 12/28*1/30 = 55.847
#4
General Issues / Questions / Re: 1 Intro + 113 Surahs???
February 19, 2014, 03:50:33 PM
Salaam Notexceling, I support this idea for four years now. Good to know that I am not the only crazy guy supporting this 'non sense'. But when we dare to look into it more thoroughly, we will see that this is not complete non sense

1) Firstly, it's strange that a 7 verses chapter is put at the beginning of the Quran. The Quran is normally arranged from long surahs to short ones. Even if the order according to the length of surahs is not exactly respected, the general trend is there.

2) Now when we read Al fateha, it is clear that it is a prayer that we address to God seeking for guidance. God cannot ask himself for guidance. It is evdent that Al Fateha is from man to God. However, in the Quran, there are many prayers like the famous rabbanas. But you will notice that the prayers in the Quran are always followed by 'Say' 'He said'...etc. There is no Qul in Al Fateha.
The answer to this prayer (asking for guidance) came in the form of a book. Just read the first few words of Al Baqara

In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.     ALM.    This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

We can see that the guidance is from Al Baqara to An Nas

3) I think you rightly said that the seven repeated (15:87 in the conventionnal numbering) refers to Al Fateha. Even if this can be qualified as mere speculation (as any other hypothesis), I personally cannot see to what else the 'seven repeated' can refer. As far as I Know, Al Fateha is the only thing composed of seven parts repeated by millions of muslims worldwide. We also have strong historical support for that understanding... even if I know that this cannot be taken as an argument here. It is a known fact that early muslims also called that chapter 'Umm-ul Quran' How could it be the 'mother' of the Quran and part of the Quran itself. Do not misread me. I am not saying that this chapter is not revealed by God. Just that God himself made a distinction between Al Fateha ahd the rest of the other surahs compiled in the Quran. 15:87 says that they are both from God. I see it more like an official application form for the guidance like the one you get from the authorities for an application for a passport for example - the comparaison may seem a bit farfetched.

4) From the above, we can conclude that Chapter 1 is al baqara and there are in all 113 chapters. Even if the numbering is an addition and was not in the first manuscripts, it is obvious that an intrinsical numbering is present as the Quran is divided into chapters and verses. In the tenth chapter the challenge is to bring tens surahs. Elsewhere the challenge is to bring a verse,  a surah, a Quran. Why ten surahs specifically here?

5) I've noticed that there are other 'coincidences ' with the chapter number like 11 stars in the eleventh chapter but this is not systematic and no rule can  be deduced from that. However there is a particular chapter that has caught my attention. It is Al Hadid the Iron chapter no 57 in conventional numbering but actually the 56th chapter. 56 is the mass number (number of protons and neutrons) of the most common isotope of iron (96%).
Furthermore the word al hadid appears in the 26th verse in a surah comprising of 30 verses ((Bismallah is logically counted as the first verse as a) Bismillah is counted as a verse in al Fateha b) I think that one of the reason why there is no basmallah in chapter 9 is precisely a sign from god to stress that the basmallah is an integral part of the chapters elsewhere where it is present c) after analysing the most ancient manuscripts, basmallah is in the same script as the other verses and only a dot separate it from the second verse like any other two consecutive verses of the same manuscript)) 26 is the atomic number (number of protons) of iron.
What is more surprising is the relation between the position of the word al hadid and the atomic mass of iron which is 55.847 Al hadid is the 13th word of the 26th verse, a verse that has 28 words. A simple mathematical calculation will give us the position of the word al hadid which is 55 + 25/30 + 1/30.12/28 = guess what 55.847!!!

Of course, all what has been said has no particular importance concerning the good deeds and the faith in God that is expected from us. Personally I see this as a sign that The Quran is in order and has been protected by God in that order. God wanted the Quran to be in that order and has not let that to the whims and desires of the Prophet, Uthman or any other.

#5



1.   carry his = 6 lunar cycles to birth

Peace Noon
The 6 lunar cycles do not correspond to anything scientific. As far I know, women carry for 9 months. You must certainly be aware that for many women, the first three months can be very difficult to bear and I don't understand why the first three months are not artificially counted just to make the count right. Secondly that does not make sense to say carry + separation is thirty months instead of carry + breastfeeding is thirty months (if your understanding of the 'second carry' is right)
#6
Breastfeeding in the Quran is advised for infants up to two years (2:233) and after that, a weaning period starts (31:14) till a complete cessation within six months so that the total period of breastfeeding (second bearing after birth) and weaning is 30 months (46:15).
This is completely in phase with the recommendations of the WHO after expert evaluation

We understand that breastfeeding take two years
                                 weaning is in two years (fi aamayni) after breastfeeding and NOT take two years as translated in the Montheist translation
#7
Salaam, I think that your conception of weaning is totally misunderstood. For example weaning from a psychoactive drug, you stop the drug  and generally done gradually by decreasing the dose. Concerning infants, weaning is understood in the medical community as the passage from brest milk to either infant formula or another animal's milk. The Quran recommends a complete breastfeeding for 24 months and weaning after that.

If you understand the second bearing as the last six months of pregnancy, i suppose you start the weaning at birth. That does not make sense. How can you wean a baby when you haven't even started breastfeeding.

Here's an extract from an article I've written on breastfeeding and will perhaps help you to understand these concepts

Basic concepts and Recommendations of the World health Organization
Pregnancy in humans: 
Pregnancy is the fertilization and development of one or more offspring in the woman?s uterus. Usually childbirth occurs after a 9 month?s gestation.
Breastfeeding:
Breastfeeding is the feeding of an infant or young child with breast milk directly from human breasts rather than using infant formula. Under modern healthcare, human breast milk is considered the healthiest form of milk for babies. It promotes the health of both mother and infant and help to prevent disease. For example, babies have an immature immune system and necessitate the antibodies developed by the mother that they get through breast milk. Non-breastfeeding significantly increases risk for a large number of acute and chronic diseases including lower respiratory tract infection, ear infection, bacteremia, bacterial meningitis, urinary tract infection, necrotic enterocolitis according to the American Academy of pediatrics. In fact, scientific research has found numerous benefits of breastfeeding for the infants with regard to general health, growth and development. Longer breastfeeding has also been associated with better mental health throughout childhood and into adolescence. Alongside the benefits for infants, it has been found that breastfeeding reduces risk of breast and ovarian cancer later in life for mothers and helps to return to the pre-pregnancy weight faster and lowers rates of obesity.
The WHO (World Health Organization) recommends exclusive breastfeeding for around six months of the baby?s life. This should start within one hour of birth and continued only on breast milk for 6 month after which infants should receive nutritionally adequate and safe complementary foods while breastfeeding continues up to two years or beyond. Mashed solid foods should be introduced as a complement to breastfeeding which SHOULD NOT be decreased when starting on solids. After the two years, a weaning process may begin till the end to breastfeeding. The WHO goes even further stating that if these recommendations are followed, 220 000 child lives would be saved each year*.
To summarize    1) Exclusive breastfeeding up to six month
      2) Solid foods are introduced at 6 months. No decrease in breastfeeding.
      3) Breastfeeding should be continued up to two years or more
*In ?The Global Strategy on infant and Young Adult?   WHO   
Weaning:
   Weaning is a stage during which breastfeeding is stopped. This may be brutal but scientifically not recommended. The benefits of gradual weaning are known today and the actual recommendation is to make it a process over several weeks or months. The frequency of breastfeeding is gradually decreased and replaced by either infant formula or animal milk which is usually cow?s milk.
#8
Brother Waqas, Salaam
Thank you, you rectify it yourself it's of course 2:233

1) Your quote contains a fallacy
I quote : I did some cross-reference and it seems the bearing is referring to carrying the burden, so it likely at least refers to when a bump is visible, and this about 2-4 months for most.

The bearing is carring the burden.... when a bump is visible That's a joke. Women carries the burden for nine months now and at the time of revelation. BTW I would be interested to know which cross reference you made? I have never heard of women carrying burden only for two months during my lectures in obstetrics in medical college. May be you are aware of a new study.

2) Your argument shows a contradiction to 2:233.
You say bearing is only 2-3 months when a bump is visible. and bearing + weaning is thirty months. So I understood that you started the weaning at 6th month pregnancy. That totally contradicts 2:233 where weaning starts after 2 years of breastfeeding

This is MY OPINION just using Quran, what I learned as a health professional and rationality God has endowed me. Yes my arguments rely on my opinion as yours depend on your opinion ( like bearing being a 'visible bump'). God knows best.
#9
Your argument contains some fallacies and contradicts 2:33

- Weaning is something that is decided after mutual agreement by the parents and concerns breastfeeding (2:33). It is also the actual understanding among the medical boards including Pediatric societies and the WHO. It may be be brutal after the recommended two years of breastfeeding but scientifically not recommended. A gradual weaning with reduction in frequency of breastfeeding and replacement by either infant formula or other animal's milk (usually cow's milk) is highly recommended

- Read again 46:15  And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him (hamalathu) with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing (wahamluhu) and weaning (wafissaluhu) lasts thirty months

In Arabic, the word hamala means to carry/ to bear/ to sustain/ to support. We can easily understand that the first occurrence of the word hamalathu refers to pregnancy, the mother carrying the fetus in the womb until birth, and it appears before birth in the verse. In my opinion the second occurrence of the word wahamluhu has nothing to do with gestation as it has been understood. It is associated with weaning and weaning is when we decide to stop breastfeeding. So the second bearing is the charge of breastfeeding. You will also notice that in the verse it is situated after birth. It is now clearer second bearing (breastfeeding) and weaning lasts for 30 months - breastfeeding for 24 months and a gradual weaning of 6 months
#10
31:14 And We enjoined man regarding his parents. His mother bore him with hardship upon hardship, and his weaning takes two years. You shall give thanks to Me, and to your parents. To Me is the final destiny.

46:15 And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says: My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted

If according to monotheist translation weaning takes (?) 2 years that is 24 months and bearing takes 30 months then bearing which is here usually understood (wrongly) as pregnancy takes...6 months which is false. The second bearing is in my opinion related to weaning and is the charge of breastfeeding mentionned in 2:233 that lasts for two years.

The translation of 31:14 also shows that the concept of weaning is completely misunderstood. Weaning is a process where breastfeeding is stopped. This can be further understood when reading 2:233. So weaning cannot 'takes' two years but is in (fi) two years

2:233 And the divorced mothers are allowed to suckle their children two full years, if they wish to complete the suckling.... So if they wish to separate out (the word in arabic here is fissalan - weaning) of mutual agreement and counsel, ...
The recommendation is to make it a process over several weeks or months. The Quran mentions that it is within 6 months (30 months of breastfeeding and weaning - 24 months of breastfeeding = 6 months weaning)

Furthermore it should be noted that this is the current recommendations of the World Health Organisation after expert evaluation 1430 after the Quran