Messages

1

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: seven heavens

« on: August 01, 2020, 09:14:27 PM »

salam everyone

i would please like your opinion as to what you think the seven heavens are

i take the verses literally and indeed there are seven heavens, but the question is, can we know/observe them?

surah 71 verse 15 has nuh pbuh telling his people:

“did you not see how God created seven heavens in layers?”

nuh pbuh tells his people “did you not see how..” ... so does that mean perhaps the seven heavens are “visible” to us and we could observe them? (or maybe they were visible to nuh pbuh people only? or to no one?)
however the thing is that nuh pbuh uses the word “how” ... so  rather than “do you not see the seven heavens”, nuh pbuh says “did you not see HOW (kayfa)...”  so what do you guys think is meant with the word “how”?

any comments please welcome

thank uuu

peace

Salam tutti_frutti,

[71:15] “Do you not see how God created seven heavens in layers?”
[71:16] “And He made the moon to illuminate in them, and He made the sun to be a lamp?”


If we read further the next verse, I believe the seven heavens are visible/observable by us as (not only by people of Nuh).

The reason is obvious:
- first, we can observe the moon and the sun (they are in seven heavens)
- second, if God is asking "do you not see/understand/think/consider/know HOW ...", then it implies the ones being addressed have (or will have - since Quran often mentions things that can be appreciated better in far future) the ability to understand the HOW.


As for what the seven heavens are, you might want to check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3ttEA1rbs

The above is the interpretation that is only possible in our age with the advance of science and technology (I am sure there are other interpretations as well and I am all ears to hear all of them). People in the past definitely have different interpretation and people in the future might have different interpretation as their science and technology advance further.


Wassalam,
Ade

2

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)

« on: August 01, 2020, 08:25:01 PM »

I am really sorry, I have been reading this post and I got so sad that people are making a problem about 13:3. I just have to discuss this here. Please forgive me for bringing back an old topic, but I NEED to address it because this thread had no closure!!

Salam mclinkin94,

There is nothing wrong about replying an old thread especially in this case you bring insights to others.

Like you said in "introduce yourself" section, "Don't leave any thoughts that support Islam unsaid!"   

Actually, it is not a contradiction, and in fact, it is a major miracle--if you understand the science behind plant development.

Let's start with:

[Quran 36:36] Exalted is He who created (in) pairs all things.

This is an example of the inferiority of the English translation compared to the original Arabic. This verse does not say "in" pairs all things. Rather, if you look at a word for word translation, it says "the pairs", not "in pairs". That is, Allah created "all the pairs" of the Earth. i.e He created all the existing pairs, so what.

kol=all

In arabic you can say "kol alazwaj or "alazwaj kollaha" interchangeably.

[Quran 51:49] And of all things We created two pairs...

In Arabic, (مِنْْ) “min“ could mean "some of"

Definitions:  from, some, some of .

Some of, of. Indicating a segment of; a portion of. In other words, "Some of all things we created pairs" in essence: "a part of all things are made into pairs".

[Quran 13:3] and from all of the fruits He made therein two mates

Same thing as above. A part of all the fruits have in them pairs. In other words: of all the fruits, there are pairs within them (fi-ha). This could be referring to some of the fruits with seeds which are diploid (have two sets/pairs of chromosomes, from the male and female components of the plant)

Believe it or not, this verse is a significant MIRACLE. It is something, the prophet Muhammad could not have known! Let me explain. This verse uses the terminology "zawjayni ith'nayni"--which is weird terminology. Zawjayni means "two"/"pair" and Ith'nayin also means "two". That means 4 in total! (2 pairs)! What???! That doesn't make any sense?!! Actually it does:

Double fertilization: "The launch of seed development in flowering plants (angiosperms) is initiated by the process of double fertilization: two male gametes (sperm cells) fuse with two female gametes (egg and central cell) to form the precursor cells of the two major seed components, the embryo and endosperm, respectively." From: https://doi.org/10.3389/fpls.2014.00452  

This is a peer reviewed scientific article, so cut the BS from those atheist/anti-Muslim websites that claim this Quranic verse is a contradiction because plants only have 1 sperm and 1 egg and that no plants have 2 pairs of sperm and eggs. WRONG THEY ARE!! Double fertilization happens in some fruits (not single fertilization, DOUBLE fertilization). I cannot believe the stupidity and ignorance of anti-muslim apologists and the BS they spew on their websites and forums!

Now, did 7th century Arabs have a concept of double fertilization? How did Muhammad (pbuh) know??
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to be that Allah is appealing to 7th century Arabs' astonishment with duality/dualism of the world and is saying "you see that thing that you are astonished by?--Allah created it". Allah said this in such a way to appeal to 7th century Arabs' dispositions while not making it a contradiction for future generations. Allah may have wanted to make it sound like to the 7th century Arabs that he was talking about duality in the world (Quran must support 7th century belief by relating to their dispositions) AND the objective nature of reality that will be discovered through science). If Allah said "and everything that exists in the heaven and the Earth are made in pairs", that would be a clear scientific error, but notice how the Quran was careful to avoid this. It is only human interpretation that messes things up; It is only the English translators that mess things up.

Thanks for the insights!


Wassalam,
Ade

3

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello, I'm an Ex-Atheist convert to Islam

« on: August 01, 2020, 08:14:20 PM »

Salamu Alaikum. This site is not new to me at all--I've looked at the search function many times in the past and I must say that your posts here have ultimately led to my conversion to Islam.

Thank you very much and please do not silence your voice or your thoughts online--it helps many. Don't leave any thoughts that support Islam unsaid!

Salam mclinkin94,

 

If you don't mind, would you share the story of your turning point from atheist to islam?


Wassalam,
Ade

4

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Zani

« on: July 29, 2020, 11:55:56 PM »

I commited zina 4 years ago.Can i still considered as 'zaniya'? I dont know arabic and i dont know if this world means who had comitted zina or who still commits zina.I dont do it anymore.And i know 24:3 .Can somebody fluent in arabic help me? I am wondering this because i want to marry someone and he never commited zina.Can we marry after i repent?

Salam sister asdfg,

If you don't mind, would you clarify a bit on what you did 4 years ago? Perhaps what you did does not fall under zina

You might want to have a look at the discussion in the following thread:

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12031.msg89825#msg89825


Wassalam,
Ade

5

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Al Quran - Structural Analysis attempt

« on: July 29, 2020, 09:47:53 PM »

Salam Iyyaka,

I am looking forward to the English version of your work (I check the pdf it is still under construction).


Wassalam,
Ade

6

General Issues / Questions / Re: The fuel of hell and the new life forms of heaven

« on: July 29, 2020, 10:11:32 AM »

salam

regarding the jinn and angels to be of same creation, there is a verse that makes me actually think perhaps no (if anyone can help)

i forgot the verse number but it was when The God tells us He asks the angels if humans took them as allies to which the angels reply no humans took the jinn as allies

does that separate the creations into angels and jinn rather than angels being jinn that were given control or jinn being not achieving rank of angels?

Not quite as per what you described ...but maybe these are the verses that you are looking for?

[34:40] And on the Day when We gather them all, then We will say to the malaikah/controllers: “Was it you that these people used to serve?”
[34:41] They will say: “Be You glorified. You are our Master, not they". Nay, they were serving the Jinn; most were believers to them.

7

General Issues / Questions / Re: The fuel of hell and the new life forms of heaven

« on: July 29, 2020, 09:57:36 AM »

Salam Ayman,

Sorry a little bit out of topic ...I just check your website: http://www.quran4peace.org/ (English section)

I am looking forward to the completion of all chapters in English (so far only 3 chapters are available in English).


Wassalam,
Ade

8

General Issues / Questions / Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?

« on: July 29, 2020, 09:21:08 AM »

Peace Ade

Then how do we explain 40:11 if the first Lifeless/dead state was not by causing death.

40:11 They will say, "Our Lord, You have made us die twice, and You have given us life twice. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out of this path?"

Salam seekingtruth1111,

[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless [perfect verb] and He brought you to life [perfect verb]? Then He makes you lifeless [imperfect verb], then He brings you to life [imperfect verb], then  to Him you will be returned [imperfect verb].

Context: in this life
First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will be lifeless)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)

[40:11] They will say: “Our Lord, You have made us lifeless twice [perfect verb], and You have given us life twice [perfect verb]. Now we have confessed our sins. Is there  any way out of this state?”

Context: in the hereafter
lifeless twice => completed/done (when we were nothing + when we were lifeless after first life)
life twice => completed/done (first life + brought to life in hereafter)


Wassalam,
Ade

9

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is Hell forever or a very long time

« on: July 29, 2020, 05:45:02 AM »

On the other hand however, there are verses such as this:

'And they said: "The fire will never touch us except counted/numbered days/times." Say: "Did you take at God a promise/contract, so God will not break His promise/contract, or are you saying on God what you do not know?" '

So it is quite confusing to me.

[2:79] So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say: “This is from God,” so that they can purchase with it a cheap  price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to  them for what they gained.
[2:80] And they said: “The Fire will not touch us except for a number of days.” Say: “Have you taken a pledge with God? If so, then God  will not break His pledge. Or do you say about God what you do  not know?”

The verse is about some people who wrote Kitab and say that the Book is from God in order to gain something (political power, money, status, etc). Those people basically say that even if they have to taste hell, it will be only temporary.

If we study sahih hadith books, that is exactly what they wrote in the book they claim from God. For example:

[Shahih Muslim] Book 1 - Number 355
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported: Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Allah will admit into Paradise those deserving of Paradise, and He will admit whom He wishes out of His Mercy, and admit those condemned to hell into the Fire (of hell). He would then say: See, he whom you find having as much faith in his heart as a grain of mustard, bring him out. They will then be brought out burned and turned to charcoal, and would be cast into the river of life, and they would sprout aj does a seed in the silt carried away by flood. Have you not seen that it comes out yellow (fresh) and intertwined?



[Shahih Bukhari] Volume 1 - Book 2 - Number 21
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of hell will go to hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted"


What they wrote in sahih hadith books go even further as to exalt Muhammad above all other messengers by undermining some messengers.

[Shahih Bukhari] Volume 9 - Book 93 - Number 601
Narrated Ma'bad bin Hilal Al'Anzi: We, i.e., some people from Basra gathered and went to Anas bin Malik, and we went in company with Thabit Al-Bunnani so that he might ask him about the Hadith of Intercession on our behalf. Behold, Anas was in his palace, and our arrival coincided with his Duha prayer. We asked permission to enter and he admitted us while he was sitting on his bed. We said to Thabit, "Do not ask him about anything else first but the Hadith of Intercession." He said, "O Abu Hamza! There are your brethren from Basra coming to ask you about the Hadith of Intercession." Anas then said, "Muhammad talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.' He will say, 'I am not fit for that but you'd better go to Abraham as he is the Khalil of the Beneficent.' They will go to Abraham and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Moses as he is the one to whom Allah spoke directly.' So they will go to Moses and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Jesus as he is a soul created by Allah and His Word.' (Be: And it was) they will go to Jesus and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Muhammad.' They would come to me and I would say, 'I am for that.' Then I will ask for my Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' It will be said, 'Go and take out of it all those who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in prostration before Him. It will be said, 'O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.' I will go and do so."' When we left Anas, I said to some of my companions, "Let's pass by Al-Hasan who is hiding himself in the house of Abi Khalifa and request him to tell us what Anas bin Malik has told us." So we went to him and we greeted him and he admitted us. We said to him, "O Abu Said! We came to you from your brother Anas Bin Malik and he related to us a Hadith about the intercession the like of which I have never heard." He said, "What is that?" Then we told him of the Hadith and said, "He stopped at this point (of the Hadith)." He said, "What then?" We said, "He did not add anything to that." He said, Anas related the Hadith to me twenty years ago when he was a young fellow. I don't know whether he forgot or if he did not like to let you depend on what he might have said." We said, "O Abu Said ! Let us know that." He smiled and said, "Man was created hasty. I did not mention that, but that I wanted to inform you of it. Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the Prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him me the same as he 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request): and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted .' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of hell (Fire) whoever said: 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.' ''

Also in Islam I though we are supposed to use our common sense and logic. To me at least, I cannot say it is logical to punish someone for sins committed in a limited time. It just doesn't make sense. How can the Most Merciful be this unforgiving? It doesn't make sense.

If we use the same reasoning, then admitting someone eternally in paradise for good deeds in limited time cannot be said to be logical either, right?

God is both merciful and severe in punishment at the same time.

[13:6] And they hasten towards you with evil before good, and the examples of those before them have already been given. And  your Lord is with forgiveness towards the people for their  transgression, and your Lord is severe in retribution.

Or does a person's soul get judged and not just their deeds? For example, if a soul is evil and never changes, then God will torment it forever? But even then, if that soul gets tortured even for 2 days in the most brutal way, wouldn't it eventually give up being evil because it just can't take the torture any longer?

[32:20] And as for those who were wicked, their abode is the Fire. Every time they try to leave it, they will be put back in it, and it will be  said to them: “Taste the retribution of the Fire which you used to  deny.”

[35:36] As for those who have rejected, for them is the fire of Hell, where they do not terminate and die, nor is its retribution ever reduced  for them. It is such that We requite every rejecter.

10

General Issues / Questions / Re: When were we dead as per 2:28?

« on: July 29, 2020, 04:45:54 AM »

Salam all,

[2:21] O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.
[2:22] The One who has made the earth a resting place, and the sky a shelter, and He sent down from the sky water with which He brought out  fruits as a gift to you. So do not set up any equals with God while  you know.
[2:23] And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your  witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
[2:24] And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and rocks, it has been  prepared for the rejecters.
[2:25] And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every  time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say: “This is what  we have been provisioned before,” and they are given its likeness.  And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide.
[2:26] God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they  know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters,  they say: “What does God intend with this example?” He strays  many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the  wicked.
[2:27] The ones who break the pledge to God after making its covenant, and they sever what God had ordered to be delivered, and they  make corruption on the earth; these are the losers.
[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless and He brought you to life? Then He makes you lifeless, then He brings you to life, then  to Him you will be returned.

...

[2:40] O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I had bestowed upon you, and fulfill your pledge to Me that I may fulfill My  pledge to you, and reverence Me alone.
[2:41] And believe in what I have sent down, affirming what is with you, and do not be the first to disbelieve in it! And do not purchase  with My revelations a cheap gain, and of Me you shall be aware.


The ones being addressed in 2:28 is An-Nas which started in 2:21. They are people in general who are being exposed to Kitab that God sent down. The logic employed when addressing them is that if they have doubt, then why they don't take the challenge etc. These An-Nas is being contrasted with Bani Israel which are addressed starting 2:40. Bani Israel is given Kitab (see 45:16), that is why the logic employed when addressing them is different, i.e. don't be the first to disbelieve, don't exchange for small gain, etc.

Now back to 2:28

[2:28] How can you reject God when you were lifeless [perfect verb] and He brought you to life [perfect verb]? Then He makes you lifeless [imperfect verb], then He brings you to life [imperfect verb], then  to Him you will be returned [imperfect verb].

First lifeless => completed/done (when we were nothing, we were lifeless)
First life => completed/done (our current life)
Second lifeless => not yet completed/to be done (we will die)
Second life => not yet completed/to be done (we will be brought to life)


Wassalam,
Ade