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Messages - Aclon

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Intelligent sunni Muslims
« on: January 28, 2021, 07:35:57 PM »
well to be sure, he was just not that intelligence to me. What i think of him is just his pride is too much to not see the flaws in it. that's the problem with sunni muslim so they were not intelligence at all.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: is it okay to work in a bank
« on: January 28, 2021, 07:32:38 PM »
it's alright. right now there's no other option for another financial and wealth saving management company like most bank, if we ban it the harm will be greater than good.

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i wouldn't mind it, since professionals can be responsible about their own truth and not denying it with their own desire. not like fanatic neo-darwinism or fanatic creationism who still deny their own weakness and close the door to the knowledge about god creations. i do really hope this community have good linguistic researcher like brother joseph from quran centric. His view on paradise blew my mind that it's impossible that the purpose of paradise are 72 virgins. For evolution i'll stick to Intelligence design because its counter argument to random chance of mutation.
quran centric: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMI9ztQ07hS1MlmjQ9KS0uQ/featured

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Evolution
« on: January 09, 2021, 10:30:12 PM »
Peace

I'll just share a couple of verses and what I think about them.

55:14
He created man of clay like the potter's.


The reference to pottery here gives an impression the clay was molded into Adam's figure.

I also see there is disagreement on 15:26 translation.

Word for word translation: And Verily We created man from/of salsalin from/of hama-in masnunin.

Note the transliterated words; salsalin, hama-in, masnunin. Salsalin is clear, dried & sounding clay like pottery(55:4) and hama-in is clear too, mud - mix of water/soil(clay).

And then we come to masnunin, all kinds of translations; altered, molded, fashioned, aged, transmuted. Which is right? What does masnunin mean?

OK, I'll just consult Edward Lane's Arabic English dictionary.
http://lisaan.net/search/%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%86%D9%88%D9%86?cat=50

Going by these, it is more likely that the right translation of "masnunin" is mechanically manipulated mud(clay + water), which may be akin to molding.


In fact, here is further insight from Qur'an.

15:28-29: And when your Lord said to the Angels, Indeed I will create a man of clay, from black mud altered. So, when I have fashioned him and breath into him of my spirit, then fall down to him prostrating.

5:110: Oh Jesus, remember my favor upon you .... when I strengthened you with the spirit .... when you made from clay like the shape of bird by My permission, then you breath into it and it became a bird by My permission.


Here, there seem to be parallel between Jesus creating a bird from molded clay, and God's creation of Adam from clay.

Of course, I might be wrong. But the impression I get from the Qur'an is that wet clay was molded into Adam's statue, then God bestowed life upon the statue and it became man.
do you mean molded like this

of course we should be careful about interpretation of adam, since it can be metaphorical.
image source:https://www.intechopen.com/books/clay-minerals-in-nature-their-characterization-modification-and-application/role-of-clay-minerals-in-chemical-evolution-and-the-origin-of-life

With verses on evolution, God gives us the message that we should be civilized. We can't go around interpreting his laws in a way that they cause oppression. Also it would be weird to not see that each human body is growing up.

and also kudos to ms. reel for the insight. we shouldn't blindly think everything is lie and interpret gods law with limited understanding about the world he created. let us be rasionalize first and think this clearly with available evidence we got.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Uh-huh the timeline is not matching
« on: January 09, 2021, 04:52:28 AM »
i don't think you should draw conclusion that aaron in different time was mary's brother. what i do think that god means is that since the jews have their own clan name, the god mention that mary is that of aaron clan(levi tribe) and the "sister" term meaning that they both are related.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Evolution
« on: January 07, 2021, 09:17:53 PM »
well brother hawk, you still don't have idea of evolution and thinks that every living being have different building blocks than human(cells, chemical structure, genes) which is another creationist flaws. gods create something and still remaining truthful that he made mankind from everything that existed and replicated(in pair) with evolution. but i guess we leave this matter in the end times where the lord confirm the truth of reality. in god everythings in heaven and earth returns.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Evolution
« on: January 07, 2021, 09:31:07 AM »
well i see most people here belief in creationism. while i disagree that gods wants to break his own order in the universe, the origin of life came from combination of water and clay, of course it's not enough to explain everything we know the secret about gods creation but there's experiment of it and it's still a hint about our origin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdNaP5BYaeU

the only difficult part is to find the real identity of adam. evolution is a fact about how species like human changes overtime, how we acquire our hand, feet, spine, and important organs that benefit us in our enviroment. For example native tibetan evolve to make the most of their limited supply of oxygen in their own environment. dark skin helps people in hot climate to protect them from UV light, etc. And the reason why we can have complex communication, coordination, makes order in our community is because we share common ancestor of apes, which already proven can make complex communication and establish order in their own community.

note: brother hawk, please becareful about your understanding. because we are all responsible about the truth of gods creation. its best we understand the world we live in before thinking everything is lie and fall to grace because our own pride and ignorance. of course as scientist, darwin doesn't really think his own work is truth but he still uncover the secret behind gods design about why every living beings is related from their combination of genes. as scientist myself, we must be wary about the knowledge we bear and must uncover the truth so we can keep our faith stronger in gods name.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Will animals be in the hereafter
« on: December 17, 2020, 08:28:33 AM »
hmm this is hard question to answer sister sarah. as someone who believe in evolution myself the new universe(heaven or hell) is not really clear, even tough the dark force of universe keep expanding and when the time we rule the earth and space i'm afraid that we will be locked inside on our cluster until the day the light of the star fades away according to quran of course. and then all the civilization collapse to ruin and  every living being died a cold death. until then we wait for our god to renew this universe to create heaven and hell. of course only he knows what creation do he will to exist in these new universe.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: I am going to apostate
« on: December 17, 2020, 08:20:29 AM »
to be honest i cannot do much about your situation, everyone must discover their own truth with what they have been given. my advice is do not lose hope, even everything is against what you have been believing,learn from your mistake and humility and do what you think is good to you, in the end it will be clear. Let the darkness protects you and the light show you the way to the god's path  :sun:.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Homosexuality In Islam
« on: December 17, 2020, 08:12:26 AM »
i'm interested in this particular topic about nature of homosexuality and therefore i kinda wanted to share some non-quranic view about what kind of things we were dealing with. i'm going to warn that i believe in the evolutionary process of life so for those of you who believe in creationism, i already warn you/
 
First and for all, homosexuality is not common for evolutionary perspective. because the purpose of not wanting to be mate by opposite sex in mammal give it disadvantage to preserve life on this earth because the couple can't have any offspring and the means of survival is loss. but even if it's sounds disadvantageous there's still a reason why some animal do it(primate, bird, and some animal capable of building social network). first the research say that homosexual exist when a mother have more children of the same sex, which mean that if you're a male and you have a brother who is straight then the chance you're being gay is increasing, it's called fraternal birth order. most scientist say that there is advantage to this and the purpose is so that it boost overal survival to the sibling without blood spill(because human are social creature). you can find the paper here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780124201903000302

and now understanding verse that talk about people of lot, there's a lot to it than just homosexuality but i don't know if the context is about rape or is the homosexuality is actually forbidden. so there's some hypothesis that i could make about this
1. homosexuality is not forbidden and lot people are transgressing their limit on their own behavior(rape, thievery, not polite, etc) that lead their own doom
2. the verse talk about how lot people doing will make social instability that can lead to their own doom and gods want to help them but they are refusing because of point 1 and so they spell their own doom.
3. god didn't like homosexuality and also people of lot already beyond saving.

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