News:

About us: a forum for monotheists, and discussion of Islam based on The Quran

Main Menu
Menu

Show posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Show posts Menu

Messages - Rahma

#1
Quote from: Mohammed. on January 20, 2020, 06:23:06 AM

Conscious and genuine people will already have good identity; they are self-confident and satisfied with their true self.
But unconscious people will try to mask their true identity (they call it beautification). E.g. plucking eyebrows, piercings, tattoos, dyeing hair etc


That's a lot of generalization --- lots of women pluck brows and have several piercings (let's leave tattoos and dyeing out of this for a while). In fact I pluck my eyebrows and I have couple of piercings. How does that hide my true identity?


#2
General Issues / Questions / Re: Fearing God/Hell
December 26, 2019, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: jkhan on December 25, 2019, 10:43:05 PM

Fear will not prompt anything in life.... Fear will make a person weak.. Fear such as you experience is worse....get rid of it..such things are not impossible.. .  It is not the fear that makes one to believe in God... Fearing God is righteousness... Respecting the truth.. Respecting the Creator... We have to ... Giving thanks to the one who created us is what He expects... we are nothing without HIM... first understand reality before having faith...No compulsion... isn't it... But God will definitely punish those who went astray... that's all i can say... Everything will look hard until you find the reality... As a believer, i tell you, take it or leave it... I never fear God and i never find it hard...I thank God for what He has done and respect and live a life not to harm any innocent human... That's my life... Is this so hard? is this what you call fear or claiming like God terrorize us... NO... God gives Glad tidings that pleases me and naturally makes me to be a good person... I am not the one who i am now, coz of Warning of God, but coz of HIs glad tidings first.... His Glad tidings overtook in my life, so Warnings never mattered for me... Warning will only matter for those who are wrong...
Try to reach God with His glad tidings... trust me ... it works..

Exactly my point, JK! Once again, I am talking about fearing God in general mainstream Islam. Is this not the message that is pumped into all? Fear God, fear hell, and be good. Well, it works for some, and eventually that fear gets to you. If you're fearing too much and not thinking about the value of being good and moral, what's the point? You reach the last day and what you see is that your deeds were propelled by fear and avoidance. On the other hand is a person who looked within themselves, saw the potential to do good and did just that. There may be some fear in them, but mostly it is hope and positivity.

Your point about being a good person and living life because of "glad tidings" pretty much summarizes my point about God. Do we think of God as one who keeps kindling hellfire, or we think of him as someone who is merciful and forbearing and giving us the chance to build ourselves through right and wrong? This is what makes all the difference.
#3
General Issues / Questions / Re: Fearing God/Hell
December 26, 2019, 11:48:09 AM
Quote from: good logic on December 26, 2019, 05:37:56 AM
Peace Rahma.
Men s interpretation of "fear of GOD":

Hell is fear. God is not only the treasure of heaven. He is also the terror of hell. ... If you have been frightened of hell because you are frightened of the devil, you are not fearing the right person. Fear GOD...etc

GOD s explanation of "fear GOD":

Love GOD the most and you should not fear anything including hell. Quote:
There is no fear in love [dread does not exist], but full-grown (complete, perfect) love turns fear out of doors and expels every trace of terror! For fear brings with it the thought of punishment, and [so] he who is afraid has not reached the full maturity of love [is not yet grown into love's complete perfection].
So either;
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hand of the living GOD.
Or:
It is a Mercy to fall into the hands of a loving GOD.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salam GL,

I think the point of my post is missed. I am not talking about myself in particular. I am talking about Islam (mainstream, if you will) in general. Would you not agree that tactics of fear are used to push moral decisions? Also, the Quran is in fact replete with verses "fear God" and of course taqwa is often translated as fearful, though I would argue that it has connotations of being mindful.

What do you mean by "loving God," if you don't mind my asking? I have honestly spent a good bit of time trying to understand this, but somehow it hasn't "clicked" for me. What do people (and the Quran) imply by loving God or doing good deeds for the love of God? My honest understanding is that God implies the highest form of values and being. To do something for God is to aspire to that standard and not attach anything else to it. I cannot yet understand the concept of loving God, for I don't even know what God is and how we connect to it.

Thanks!
#4
General Issues / Questions / Fearing God/Hell
December 25, 2019, 04:12:03 PM
Wishing everyone peace and prosperity.

My question is about the emphasis on fear that we find in religion (and I would say Quran as well). There's so much pressure on fearing God and His punishment that we grow up with a morality that is rooted in avoidance of consequences. But, really, is this all there is to one's morality and existence?

What does fearing Allah imply? Fearing that he will punish me if I do bad is to develop a very weak relationship with him.

What does doing good to reach heaven and avoid hell eventually reflect about us? That we are more fearful and materialistic than being morally upright.

I ask this question because as I shared before I have OCD, and this illness is driven by and rooted in fears. For instance, people develop Harm OCD and their core fear is that they will either end up in hell or be jailed. Of course for some the fear is being a bad person as well. For my harm ocd it's all three. Similarly, religious ocd is oftentimes presented as fear of God/punishment/hell. The fear is so much that one becomes neurotic. This really shows how debilitating fear is for a human mind and body.

And as a person born into a Sunni family, I can see how rooted I am in fear. We are made to offer prayers because God will punish us this much if he sees we haven't prayed; we fast because one missed fast = 1000 years or whatever of burning; we do not steal or lie because we can end up in hell and not get to heaven; etc etc. Fear drives believers.

I know that fear is a great instinct—we cannot do without it; but eventually there comes a point where we have to ask the reasoning behind doing good out of fear or believing in God out of fear. Lately I have become so much more conscious of my fear based values and I do not understand why we find so much emphasis on fear in Muslim belief.

If anyone has a deeper knowledge of Quran's understanding of good and bad that is not driven by fear, please do share. I cannot see why morality has to be taught through fear — though of course fear is always a great force.

Thanks!
#5
Quote from: jkhan on December 12, 2019, 07:35:22 PM
Peace All...
I am addressing all who commented above...

If one claims confused rather than concerned and searching for truth then I don't think guidance and clarification would reach....

If you all who have concerns as you all have stated above.... Pls ponder this also....  If you can deduce it must probably you will resort for answers...

*** why Musa's teacher killed that innocent boy... Great prophet was kept silence after only one question.... 
*** Why God kills/ed children by His destruction to communities coz of the rejection by elders after being warned..
*** Why God doesn't give a long life to all and take the life when they are infant or teen if in fact the intention of man's creation is to test him and judge based on that....

That's why I created a topic "Sensing the Creator"
God claims He is the most merciful and fair in judgement... Judgement in this world and here after when it comes to His own decision... Such as destruction and natural death to kids..

Our kindness is so weak and limited but God is 24/7... Watching at us constantly...

So there must have been a real reason why God did/does the above (***) to deserve ....

I will get back to the question anything lived before men and Jin in next reply...

Exactly — we don't know the answer and can possibly never know. We can only guess and make estimates.
#6
Quote from: good logic on December 12, 2019, 01:55:16 PM
Are we assuming this is our first life?
Qoran indicates otherwise.
This may be our first time as humans, but we existed in a past  life. as other creatures. What? Where? We do not recall. We are reminded in Qoran about the past life-Wa Lakad Alimtumu Al Nashata Al Oula, Afala Tadhakaroon?
Also -Kuntum Amwatan Fahyakum Thumma Yumitukum...
i.e we were dead before we were created as humans can only mean that we existed before.
We have chosen to come back as humans and accepted the Amana-Responsibility to live as humans- Why? When?
GOD bless .
Peace.


Great point! We don't know what preceded us. We don't even remember taking that responsibility/amana!!!

Perhaps we have existed before in a different way. Our memories don't serve us well.
#7
Quote from: kaltun on December 12, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
Peace Sarah,

Who did tell you about this :
its you ( human or jinn) makes that choice, you ( human and jinn) has free will , you can do what ever you want , or say whatever you want to say ( offcourse there will be consequenst).

i see this way :
When Allah made us , he knew what we are gonna choose ( which path) and he saw /sees that most human and jinns go astray , and that is what Allah tells us in his book. thats why Quran is for the people who beleave in Allah.
Again , its the choice of the living...

like why do Angels do not go astray ?? they ALWAYS do what Allah ask, no matter what ... thats why there are none mentioned about the punishing the Angels...
Iblis did go astray because he was from the jinn.

btw i read this a lot , but makes no sense to me , Allah has no feelings , is not emotional being like humans (  jinn), so he would not be angry or happy or sad. otherwise it would make Allah weak if he had feelings ..


Great points, but I don't think you understand the OP's anxiety around somethings. For instance, if God already knows that we'll mess up why does He create us in such a way that most of us will end up in hell?!

Also, the point about angels does not apply. They have no option but to obey God. They have no choice in this matter. Humans and Jinn on the other hand have the choice, but this choice makes them more likely to falter. We're not wise at all. We make mistakes and learn from them. We're not saints or angels who won't make mistakes and misjudgments. In fact, we learn most from mistakes and that lesson is more lasting.
#8
Quote from: Sarah on December 11, 2019, 10:10:29 PM
Peace

and why are most people made for hell?

If God is infinite, does that mean that there were an infinity of creation even before us? It's so hard to understand or grasp. Or are humans and jinn the first creation of its kind?

Also, why did God decide to make most humans for hell because it is mentioned that if God willed, everyone would have been a believer. To me, it's so depressing to know that most people are not for heaven. That they would one day burn in hell. That it would most likely include all my loved ones. It's depressing. Sometimes I think of it as sadistic but then I think maybe there is a greater reason because God didn't make most people for hell to entertain Himself. Maybe if most people were good and believers we wouldn't learn much? Maybe we first need to learn about human psychology before entering the hereafter?

I honestly do not understand why God CHOSE to make most people unbelievers- worthy of hell and then most of the quran is warning us not to be or become like them. And it also disapproves of them. Is angry at them for being rejecters but couldn't God EASILY just solve this problem by CHOOSING to make everyone a believer?


Salam Sarah!

I completely understand your questions and concerns, and have wrestled with them for years. There is no proper answer to these questions because we do not understand complete reality.

For instance, we see time as linear. Go back several billion years and you have a question: what was God doing before all this? Were there more universes before this? Did God come into being then, if this is the first creation? We have no answers.

The question about several being made for hell is obviously poignant. As humans who may end up in hell it hurts us — especially when we see some people who really struggle with some problems that may very well be beyond their control. It's very easy to say that it's human choice to go towards heaven and hell. In reality, though, there are lots of factors affecting choices.

I look at my cousin: he's bipolar with a narcissistic personality disorder. Some choices are out of his control while others can be made better by work. Either way, he's not fully his free will sometimes. It doesn't make sense to judge him in black and white means. Similarly, infinity to us sounds billions of years. Honestly, it doesn't make sense to condemn people to hell infinitely — what purpose does it serve? Ok, I understand corrective hell and that can be very long, but just burning/punishing forever sounds over the board. I am saying all this in relation to a God who is merciful, just, forgiving, and wise. I of course understand and acknowledge that I may be missing out on sufficient knowledge and humbly hope to be better educated by Him ... but this is my current understanding.

Another thing that really bothers me is Shirk being unforgivable. I see why Firaun's shirk is problematic; however, a layman who has VERY little knowledge and exposure is most likely to follow the path of shirk/non-monotheistic beliefs. How can we easily judge him and say "he should have chosen better."

That said, I genuinely believe that we don't understand God and the world's reality. I find Quran very deep, but even then it's words and 7 seas or more cannot explain God and reality. We're probably approaching judgement, heaven, hell, and life in a limited way. We don't have that exposure yet to truly appreciate what existence of humans and jinns implies. Time and again Quran says God is beyond needs and yet there is emphasis on following God alone, etc — I am sure it means something to and for us rather than God. Otherwise, God is really just playing a game with all of us ... He creates, judges, condemns, and feels godly. Sounds very human ...
#9
General Issues / Questions / Diversity of Being / OCD
December 10, 2019, 03:00:50 PM
Salam everyone!

I want to share something with you all and perhaps lead that into questions about existence, judgement, God, etc.

I have been diagnosed with OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and with co-morbid depression. Life, in short, is tough. My OCD is not the usual one you hear through media, i.e I don't have the usual contamination OCD. Instead, I have other kinds of obsessions. OCD, if you don't know already, is a very debilitating disease and can be a life long struggle, as you have such a mind and personality. Moreover, it's not that simple as TV presents it to be: perfecting, cleaning things, etc. Instead, OCD is about obsessive fears that give you debilitating anxiety and the more you try to get rid of them, the further entrenched they become.

Years back I developed religious OCD. When I got it, I had a sudden intrusive thought "how do I know Quran is the word of God and Bible is not". A "normal" person would either ignore this thought or think "ok, I'll check it out." A person with OCD, like myself, freaks out. This freaking out is not a normal "scary" sensation --- it's as though the world comes to a stop and your heart and head are on fire. I remember freaking out and my mind breaking into a thousand blasphemous thoughts. Suddenly, the cycle started and I began getting intrusive thoughts about God, prophets, Quran, satan, morality, etc. One would think that this is in one's control. Nope, this fear and obsession cycle is involuntary. The more you fear, the more intense the cycle becomes. As my obsessions grew, my compulsions to read Quran, offer prayers, etc grew. But whenever I would do that blasphemous thoughts and urges would come to mind and I was convinced that I was either a really bad person or the devil had possessed me or that God had forsaken me for having such thoughts. Of course, as a teenager, I didn't know this was just a mental disorder I was going through. I was very hurt and could not share with my family, fearing that they will kill me for being an apostate (haha!). Of course, I was also mad at God for putting me through this --- but then my mind convinced me that I must have done something really wrong to deserve all this. Mind you, it doesn't help to read hadiths when you're going through religious OCD. We all know some hadiths are pure vile and vulgar and your doubts about God and Islam increase all the more. It took me couple of years to come out of this cycle and I discovered the Quran Alone path during this, and it really helped. I realized that I was thinking irrationally about God and religion, and my mind was just creating stupid narratives. I got out of my OCD cycle after some gruesome, trying struggle.

While I did get out of religious OCD, I got onto philosophical OCD: the obsession with philosophical questions about world, religion, morality, and other things. Problem with OCD people is that they can't settle with uncertainty. So, no matter what philosophical question you answer, your OCD mind cannot accept it as the final answer: "what if there's more to it?" It keeps you in that anxiety of missing out on important answers, even though you may very well have the answer in your hand. You might think this is just "research," but it's a painful, fearful, anxiety ridden research. Day in, day out you are on your toes. Your mind is always wound up, always thinking, always keeping you uncomfortable and guilty, and pushing you to believe that you are unsafe if you don't get the answer. Now imagine having philosophical OCD for 10 years and not knowing it and staying in the misery of doubt!

This year, though, my OCD morphed into several other obsessive fears. The first began with irrationally worrying about my child's health, and attached to it was philosophical OCD: What if she dies? What if she gets really sick? What if she dies and then what will the purpose of life be? Why do kids die? Why is the world set up like that? Why is death set up? These are "normal" questions, but with OCD it is a 24/7 obsession. You wake up in the middle of the night 10 times crying, checking up on your child, reading about such philosophical questions, hoping your heart will get happy. Nope. It never gets happy. It wants more certainty. It wants more safety. The more you offer it, the more it needs. It's an addiction. You can check your child's heartbeat a hundred times and the mind will tell you to do it one more time to be safe. All happiness is sucked out. Ok, you prayed to God for health, but "Hey!!! Others do it and still lose their kids. Who is God? Where is God? Go find him." It's a trap!

I am over health anxiety now --- I have accepted mortality of my child and the suffering it will bring --- but I have other obsessions to replace it. For instance, how can I be sure that I am a good person; what if I develop schizophrenia; I don't think I love my child enough; how do I know I am heterosexual for sure; what if I am secretly a pedophile; what if I harm my child? (More commonly, these fears are called Harm OCD, Sexual OCD, Scrupulosity OCD, Relationship OCD).

Problem with OCD is that the anxiety and fear is so high that these problems seem VERY real. For instance, a person who has health anxiety can get "fake" feelings of heart attack or other symptoms of whatever you fear (fake rash, etc). For a person who is afraid they are homosexual feel false attraction to same gendered people and lose sensations for the opposite ones. When I developed this, I lost all attraction towards my husband and started experiencing false attraction/sensations towards women. All day long the mind would come up with images and urges of homosexual love. For a person who has harm OCD, they get fake (but felt as real) feelings of anger and urges to hurt. With pedophile OCD, you develop yet again false attraction and fake urges towards kids. If you don't believe me, go check it out!!!! Initially, all of this happens with heart-wrenching anxiety, as though your insides are on fire. Later, as you get used to it, anxiety leave, but urges, sensations, thoughts are there. It's freaking real. Anxiety mimics anything you fear when you are in the OCD cycle. When the fear popped up that I do not love my daughter, immediately my emotions stopped and now it's been couple of months my mind gives me angry emotions and no "loving" feelings towards here. It convinces you that it's real and you need to resolve all of it. But if you work on resolution, it worsens.

The solution to all this, you all must wonder: Well, you accept the uncertainty that you may be either of your fears. But this acceptance is not easy. Moving towards your fear gives you anxiety and panic attacks. It makes you suicidal because your mind creates such fear that you cannot even bear to approach that fear. For instance, I had to stop praying because I was SO afraid of blasphemous thoughts. I began avoiding my child because I would get false attraction/anger --- and any time I approach her, my mind goes crazy with thoughts, images, urges, etc. For months I couldn't talk to my female friends and even sisters and mother because the anxiety was SO much and the body created false feelings of attraction. With schizophrenia OCD, you begin to see things. Anxiety is a mean bitch, basically; it will mimic anything and everything. In short, it is miserable.


Don't say this is OCD; how can the person not know? OCD is also called doubting disease. You doubt everything. No proof is enough. You even doubt you have OCD.


In doing recovery and therapy, I have done "exposures". Exposure is basically exposing yourself to your fears and accepting that you could be your fears and not doing any compulsions to relieve your anxiety. It is holding a child, experiencing the attraction, and going with your day, all the while not questioning whether the attraction is real or not. Maybe it is real, maybe it is not. Once the mind sees that the fear is down and your belief has changed about the fear, the obsessions cease. Problem with OCD people is that they keep "checking" if their thought is gone, and the more you check the mind creates more of those thoughts. It is a very twisted disease. It is debilitating to the extent people do not leave their houses and even kill themselves --- mostly because the diagnosis is so rare and difficult. It took me 10 years to get the diagnosis.

Anyway, point is that during these exposures I have learnt so much about diversity of human existence and personalities, and how grey "good" and "bad" is. For instance, as I exposed myself to the fear of schizophrenia, I learnt a lot about other mental illnesses and how much people struggle with brain chemistry. As I approached harm OCD, I had to read up on and watch documentaries on psychopathy, crime scenes, etc, and how some people are just wired differently and their choices are very limited. Pedophilia OCD is in fact a very common OCD in new parents and it has taught me a lot about how people are born with the brain chemistry of not feeling maternal or paternal towards kids --- instead, their brain creates sexual thoughts. Take note that child abusers/molestors are not necessarily pedophiles. In fact, pedophilia is not rare; many people amongst us are non-offending pedophiles. They know their desire, but do not act upon it. Similarly, I was exposed a lot to personality disorders and how each person is wired differently.

The question then is what is "normal" even? I think very differently from people who are non OCD. And yet people who have different brains think differently compared to me. How do you judge morality then? Needless to say this is giving me new obsessions about figuring out how judgement works and what even is God?! If you ask me, I am grateful to have a fully functional body, but my mind and thinking patterns are very faulty. I have chronic anxiety and I stay in loops of fear and it's very depressing. My body is in a constant state of alarm --- constantly pumping adrenaline and asking me to resolve doubts about everything. In such a state your emotions are out of control. You are frustrated all the time and on the edge. It seems your heart will come out into your mouth. It's not the way to live! There is constant depression and a question to God: "why are we going through this?" There are times you want to give up and not fight through this. I cannot even begin to explain how miserable and debilitating OCD is --- just imagine yourself as a primitive man standing in front of a lion every moment of your life. The flight or fight sensations that he would have gotten are our every day reality. Every moment of the day OCD-ers experience obsessive thoughts and chronic panic and anxiety, no matter how irrational the fear is. This also gives us depersonalization --- a sensation where our mind and body separate as defense mechanism and it seems you have lost sense of your identity and personality and your body is alien to you.

Anyway, my point about all this is to raise awareness. If you or anyone you know is going through irrational fears and is in a loop of "figuring out" it's probably OCD. Seek help! Also, existence is SO diverse. I think I have stopped believing in a judgement that is as simple as "good" or "bad." Humans are not that simple. Right now my family might think I am a "bad" person to be not as attentive to them and to be so sullen, but do they know my daily struggle? Nope! Do I know the struggle of a person with low empathy? I cannot. Do I know what a person pre-disposed to fury and anger experiences? No! Each person has their baggage of personality, brain chemistry, and struggles, and we can never truly know what good and bad they can perform with their predispositions. The world is not so simple. God cannot be that simple to create humanity this way and then put them through such trials and then say "you should still have been good; off you go to get burned."

This journey has really shaken me to the core. I see the world so differently now --- we are way too diverse to be compartmentalized.
#10
Quote from: SarahY on October 15, 2019, 12:34:22 PM
Salam,

I hope you're in a better state.

Something I wanted to add is we have the capacity to improve our minds and grow... For example, your mind as a teenager isn't the same as your adult mind. Through different experiences and knowledge our mind grows. Besides, if you don't trust your mind, who's mind will you be willing to give that authority to?

Not everyone's faith is secure, rational or authentic.

What causes certainty? Before, you didn't question and ponder but now that you have, that certainty has changed. Would you have believed your knowledge today if you told your previous sunni believing self?

I can relate to the discomfort of uncertainty but it's all part of personal growth. One answer can lead to more questions and sometimes answers will forever be unknown. I've accepted that sometimes I will not know but I've always had faith/belief in God.

Peace, blessings and happiness upon you too


Thank you, Sarah, for responding. I am a tad better than before. What a coincidence that you used the word "uncertainty" --- I have learned that I am going through OCD; but this OCD is religious and mental in nature. It latches onto doubt and you crave certainty for all answers. In my case it is about gaining certainty in faith, God, the world he has created, the way he would judge, the pain he has created, why he has created, etc. And, tbh, there are no answers for any of this. Even the Quran is not this detailed to have comprehensive answers. In fact, my obsessions reach out to Quran, its historicity, its authenticity, etc etc. It's a loop.

At this point, I have withdrawn myself from Quran and answering such questions. The only "cure" of OCD is accepting the uncertainty. I am working towards it. Once I do come back to faith, I know it will be about accepting the uncertainty. There is no absolute proof and reason for God, heaven, hell, his judgement, his plan for the world, the pain that exists. And there never will be. You can choose the best answers and keep on living. And perhaps risk your soul alongside ... everyone risks it eventually, muslim or not. And if God is just He would just have to accept people in good faith for their hard work, muslim or not.