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Messages - Soittosondhani

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Prophets and Messengers / Re: :: Muhammad is NOT our Rasool ::
« on: November 04, 2019, 08:07:10 AM »
يَـٰٓأَهْلَ Yaaa Ahla (o people) ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ al Kitaabi (of the book) لَا laa (do not) تَغْلُواْ taghloo (exaggerate) فِى fee (in ) دِينِكُمْ deenikum (your obligations), وَلَ wa laa (and do not) تَقُولُواْ taqooloo (say) عَلَى aala (upon/over) ٱللَّهِ Allahi (the creator/God) إِلَّا illa (save) ٱلْحَقَّ‌ۚ alhaqq (the truth), إِنَّمَا innama (that what) ٱلْمَسِيحُ al Maseehu (the anointed) عِيسَى Eesa (Iisa) ٱبْنُ abnu (retrieval/constitute/build) مَرْيَمَ Maryamma (of Mariam) رَسُولُ Rasoolu (message/sending) ٱللَّهِ Allahi (of the creator/God) وَكَلِمَتُهُۥٓ wa Kalimatuhooo (and His words) أَلْقَـٰهَآ alqaahaaa (of the Brilliance of Hers) إِلَىٰ ilaa (unto) مَرْيَمَ Maryamma (Mariam) وَرُوحٌ wa roohun (and an inspiration) مِّنْهُ‌ۖ minhu (from Him), فَـَٔـامِنُواْ fa aaminoo (must comply) بِٱللَّهِ billaahi (with the creator/God) وَ wa (and) رُسُلِهِ Rusulihee (with his message/sending) وَ wa (and) لَا laa (do not) تَقُولُواْ taqooloo (say) ثَلَـٰثَةٌ‌ۚ salaasah (three/trinity), ٱنتَهُواْ antahoo (desisting/stopping) خَيْرًا khairan (is better/good) لَّكُمْ‌ۚ lakum (for you). 4:171

So "a praiseworthy of God's message", and those with him (the message) strong against the disbelievers and  compassionate amongst themselves..."
would be a correct translation of the beginning of that aya?

What about this?:
"
يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّـهِ إِلَّا الْحَقَّ ۚ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّـهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ ۖ فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّـهِ وَرُسُلِهِ ۖ وَلَا تَقُولُوا ثَلَاثَةٌ ۚ انتَهُوا خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا اللَّـهُ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ ۘ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّـهِ وَكِيلًا ﴿١٧١﴾ "
"O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs."


This very similar to the sentence in 48.29
Would also this be 'isaa is just a message of God...?

 Salaam

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That organism could be the greatest breakthrough in weapons research since man split the atom
Translation: هـذا الكـائن من المحـتمل أنـه أعـظم إنـجاز في مجـال أبحاث الأسـلحة منـذا أن شطر الإنـسان الذرة!


Like make something half?

3
Quote from jKhan:

A)  " When God destroy a town after it has been warned thoroughly… God is just….We can’t ask why HE destroyed it coz we have very limited knowledge of it…The wife of Lut was also part of dreadful destruction… Remember God only said, He saved Lut and his family except his wife"

B) "Now, I can also ask the same way Soittosondhani asked… Why God destroyed the rest… did the children practiced homosexuality in that society.…. Or  in any destruction of the past, why the above group should deserve as well the same fate of each town destroyed"

Comment:
A) At least you have realized that the cause of misfortunes of Lut's wife was not male homosexuality. Thanks.

B) If Allah clearly not informs the cause of destroying any past nation(s) in the Quran, we should acknowledge the matter unknown, instead of imposing our own notion/assumption on it.

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27:55  أَئِنَّكُمْ A'innakum (your moaning/whinning/Squeal) لَتَأْتُونَ lataatoona (for providing) ٱلرِّجَالَ ar rajaala (human being) شَهْوَةً shahwata (of craving/longing) مِّن maan (whoever) دُونِ doon (minors) ٱلنِّسَآءِ‌ۚ an nasaaee (of the womankind/weak masses). بَلْ bal (Indeed) أَنتُمْ (antum) you قَوْمٌ qawmun (people/nation) تَجْهَلُونَ tajhaloon (ignore)

Note: 'R J L' means 'having two legs', in that sense it means 'human being' that encompass both 'male and female'.

27:56 فَمَا Famaa (Then/so what) كَانَ kaana (was) جَوَابَ jawaaba (answer) قَوْمِهِ qawmiheee (of his people) إِلَّآ illaaa (save/but) أَن  aan (that) قَالُوٓاْ qaalooo (said) أَخْرِجُوٓاْ akhrijooo (expel/drive out) ءَالَ aalaa (the first) لُوطٍ Lootin (some Lut/Loot)  min (from) قَرْيَتِكُمْ‌ۖ qaryatikum (your town), إِنَّهُمْ innahum (that they) أُنَاسٌ unaasun (people/human/folk) يَتَطَهَّرُونَ yatatahharoon (perfectionist/do perfection)

Now anyone can make the fluent translations of the above verses.
But which word here tells of gay sexuality? Rather we see "craving for minors of the womankind/weak masses".
Also Lut's wife was a female. Why was she punished? For male-male sexuality? Surprising!


Peace everyone.....

27:55 " Do you indeed approach men (rijjal) with desire instead of women (Nissa) ? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly."
27:56 "But the answer of his people was not except that they said, "Expel the family of Lot from your city. Indeed, they are people who keep themselves PURE (Yathathahharun) ."

Why I brought above two verses... To explain couple of matters...

First... Member Soitodani claiming in verse 26:165 word 'Zukhran' is not male but memorandum... As if in Quran never used zukhran as male... 75:39, 92:3, 53:21 etc...so this root has the meaning of males as well... Beyond that it befits for 26:165-166 with the flow of verses...  Only males...
You brought some totally different meaning to 26:165 while God brought the same Lut story in 27:55 explaining same matter but using entirely two different words Rijjal and Nissa instead of Zukhran and Aswaj ...would you pls translate using those set of meaning the verse 27:55 ...how hilarious you look... 

My next point is not connected with Soitodani..
But with homosexuality... Do you notice my fellow believers in 27:55 when Lut advice and blame his people saying you approch men with desire in place of Women.... What is the answer of his people?  27:56 indeed you people keep PURE.. It shows they were not pure while Lut family does ... In what they were not pure...? Matter discussed in previous verse is approaching Man to Man.. Now claiming pure... Try to grasp folks.. What they were practising...

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26:166 - Wa (And) tazaroona (you blow up) maa (what) khalaqa (produced) lakum (to/for you) Rabbukum (your Lord/Sustainer), min (from) azwaajikum (your companion/comrade), bal (indeed) antum (you) qawmun (People/nation) aadoon (ordinary)

Hope you can now make free flow translation.

Salam,

I find this interpretation quite satisfying. Thank you so much. Only one question, how do you link it to the next verse? I can't find a clear way...

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The verse in question 26:165 “أَتَأْتُونَ الذُّكْرَانَ مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ” starts from the word “أَتَأْتُونَ” a passive form of “أتى” correctly means who or which has been produced, which has come or which has been brought in. This word “أَتَأْتُونَ” is the derivative of the same root of “آتُوا” and “أُوتُوا” used in the verses of giving Zakat “آتُوا الزَّكَاةَ” (2:43, 2:83, 2:110, 2:277, 4:77, 9:11, 22:41, 22:78, 24:56, 58:13, 73:20), produced or given the book “أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ” (2:101, 2:144, 2:145, 3:19, 3:100, 3:186, 4:47, 4:131, 5:5, , 5:57, 9:29, 57:16, 74:31, 98:4), given knowledge “أُوتُوا الْعِلْمَ” (16:27, 17:107, 22:54, 28:80, 30:56, 34:6, 47:16, 58:11) and practice or implementation of “آتَى الزَّكَاةَ” (2:177, 9:18) and “يُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ” (7:156, 9:71, 27:3, 41:7). However, to bring male to male fornication in this verse 26:165 the Deviated Translators falsely translated “أَتَأْتُونَ” to mean “approach” and invented lies in the translation of the verse 26:165.

They have also replaced God’s memorandums (الذُّكْرَانَ) with “men” and invented lies of “approaching men for sexual satisfaction”

True meaning of the verse in fact is " Brought/produced the memorandums from the overall knowledgeable/scholars"

Now assess the rest.


Salam,

26:165

Why atatuna means here approach? It never means something like this in the whole quran and suddenly here it means "approach sexualy?" Who says so?

Asuming it is about homosexuality, why it talks only about males approaching sexually males?  Maybe because there is a preconceived idea.

Then next verse says "and u leave your mates". Still this verse could be talking about many many things and not necessary homosexuality. Maybe we should check on why this irrepressible need to relate everything to adultery or homosexuality and leave behind what is indeed a huge sin, and explicit.

In any case, I missed to talk about it on purpose because as i told u, i dont see any explicit prohibition and it is my choice to think so and it is yours to think the opposite.

God knows best

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In Persian زن means woman, in that sense زنا means womanize in Persian. That Persian meanings unfortunately entered into meaning of Arabic Quran.


Salam Soito...

Interesting your view...
I understand you as under. ..
Salam Soito...

Interesting your view...
I understand you as under. ..
Zina = Doing Rape.  (rape is always by force)
Guarding private parts = Not Doing rape.. 
Then,  does it cover everything dear? Or everything comes under fahisha...
Sex is of various nature.... Give you few examples..
## Sex for business (💰)...  That's with consent...so approaching... So not zina.. So then what?
## Sex for fun, that's with consent.... So not zina... Then what?
Sex on instant attractions... With consent... Not zina... Then what?

Sex under compulsion... Take story Yousuf was seduced... God saved him... Suppose.. Did he caught up with her seduction then Yousuf also culprit... Though he was not the one initiated... Is it rape? I mean zina...? One interested... One not but seduced and commited ultimately .. If not zina then what?

What you call for above act in Arabic? And are they allowed? Since not included under zina or private part guard...
Are you sure about what you say?
Coz honestly I never look dictionaries of Arabic to grasp quran... I read Quran in Arabic meticulously and look all translations possible... If Iam not happy with any of the translation which doesn't give a Quranic flow meaning then I reject and search my own meaning with loads of comparisons.. .. Coz I don't have the dictionary which Mohamed used or people of Mohamed used... If dictionary came late then I don't depend.. If right I accept... That's fine...
I myself found out that all translations for 'Ummi' were wrong.. But I deduced that Mohamed was literate with all ummi verses... Then later I knew articles written by many same as my understanding .. So I was happy... Had I depended on translation or dictionary ummi would have been still Illiterate for me..
By this I don't ask you not to refer... I told my way... So pls double check whether your dictionary reference of zina tally with Quran.. Pls with kindness translate all zina verses in your way... Let me see whether has meaning...

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Zina comes from the root ZN, what means weightage, press, force. In that sense only 'Rape' comes under the concept of Zina, Quran condemns such forceful acts (rape as well as all suppressive acts on other human beings) as 'fahisha' and advice not to come near it. So zina does not include "sex with mutual consent between partners (zawaj)"  Guarding private parts surely means 'guarding from doing rape' that is,'refraining from forcing to sex' anyone who do not have consent for it.

Peace!!

17:32 “And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse (zina). Indeed, it is ever an immorality (fahisha) and is Evil as a way.”

Let me further explain, anyone who is in support of LGBQT better respond with logic…
What exactly God command by verse 17:32 is NOT to APPROACH (Zina)..what is infact Zinah? Am I right if I elaborate this way “zina is having sex with another person who is not legally ours through marriage… Is that fine…? Hope okay.. better explanation is welcome..
Simple language illegal sexual intercourse as translated above… So who is allowed to marry according to God in quran..crystal clear in quran male for female (various conditions and rules apply)…
So to have sex with another woman for a woman or Man to Man, they first should marry before they touch each other…. Right or wrong?… coz without marriage there is no sex according to orderly way of God, otherwise it will be ZINAH… supported by 23:05-06 “And they who guard their private parts, Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed - ..”  Other than those will be blamed…then…

Who are these people in the end? The real successful believers 23:01 and they will inherit the Janna 23:10….

With honesty tell me anyone Has Allah allowed this shameful act?

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SHATRA (شطر) is a verb to mean 'bisect'. Also can be used as a noun 'bisecting' by forming the word grammatically. Root meaning of the word does not indicate it as a location adverb. This word is used in medical/technical field as such.

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General Issues / Questions / Re: How do you understand fasting
« on: May 20, 2019, 01:29:01 AM »
Searching the root we find that 'Saom'  is derived from 'SMM'. "SMM' means 'deafness' and 'deaf and dumb', so Saom should mean observance/practice of deafness and silence. Its surprising how a derivative of SMM turned into 'fasting' in the long run!

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