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Messages - person_of_the_book

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I had a copy of Ibn Taymiyyah's "Book of Monotheism" and it had this massive, massive list of things that make you non-Muslim. I think that's what started me on the path of "maybe all this extra stuff is nonsense?".

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Can you refer to specific verses? I believe it warns about not to cooperate with paganists (those who set up partnership with God) when they are up to something bloody, i.e. stay away from wars and wordly life. Especially verses 9:80 - 9:90.

9:84 And do not commune over any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have rejected God and His messenger and died while they were wicked. 9:85 And do not be impressed by their wealth and their children; God only wishes to punish them with it in this world, and so their souls will be taken to death while they are rejecters

Who have died or stand at their grave is probably metaphorical, these are blind people who pursue wordly life ("do not be impressed by their wealth and their children").

So basically it makes sense not to commune with modern Muslims, or anyone else. Do not serve the Uncle Sam, do not serve the ISIS, do not serve the priests etc.

An excellent point, thank you. That is helpful.

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The sectarian interpretation of the chapters is implying on literal warfare.

Well, yes. The claim is that the chapters refer to a specific battle and specific historical events with specific people. (While plausible, I also don't understand how this qualifies for inclusion in an eternal and universal book, or why God wouldn't name names and the like. This is why I am doing my hardest to wrap my head around these two chapters as general instructions/commands/advice to all mankind rather than a historical document.)

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Peace Man of faith,

so you do believe in the Jewish holocaust, is that the one they claimed after the first world war or the one they claimed after the second, although the red cross records after they were released 60 years after the second world war revealed only 136,000 people in total died in the work camps, and that includes all groups, mainly Polish, and that the Jews have made the denial of their invented holocaust a criminal offence, no matter if you can prove it never happened?

The Ashkenazi have stolen billions from the German people in reparations after the war for the claimed holocaust, now just as with any propaganda lie, you turn the truth around, the Ashkenazi Jews in Israel have committed a holocaust on the Palestinians.

Next you'll be telling me Einstein was agenius and nuclaer weapons are real.

Are you being sarcastic, or are you claiming that the holocaust never happened? I am unclear.

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Discuss Latest World News / Re: Racist rally in the US
« on: September 02, 2017, 04:52:20 AM »
TheNabi - I fundamentally and completely disagree with your post.


Racists in general, and specifically these people who were marching, advocate for the elimination of ethnic and religious groups and for the supremacy of their own ethnic and religious group, and promote nationalism as well. This is inexcusable and absolutely has no place in any kind of society. If you had a group of friends, and one of them kept yelling that one of the people in your group was ruining everything and needed to leave, and was not even a human being, would this be tolerated? Would the individual singled out feel safe or welcome? Would this one person shouting stop once the "problem" was removed, or would they move on to another target? History teaches us the answer. There is no freedom to denigrate other people. At all.


"Antifa" and groups like it are morons, they always show up to every protest to start trouble. The funny thing is that a lot of times it turns out that these people are cops.

https://www.google.ca/search?dcr=0&q=police+posing+as+protesters&oq=police+posing+as+&gs_l=psy-ab.3.3.0l3j0i22i30k1.9317.11682.0.14410.17.10.0.0.0.0.483.1546.0j2j0j1j2.5.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D0.3..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..12.5.1542...0i67k1.knmN97Eb7t8

Basically, your entire position is hideous.

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Forum Suggestions / Re: Current belief badge for every member?
« on: September 02, 2017, 04:40:04 AM »
I think that just needlessly complicates things. Specificity of language would be much easier when posting, rather than trying to encapsulate the nuances of Qur'an-alone beliefs in a single word.

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This thread is now about pictures of corn:


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Peace -

In my reading of Qur'an, I tend to take a more metaphorical or allegorical reading than a literal one - I am not saying one way is more or less correct, it's just my own nature to see things from that perspective.

Over the last couple of days I've been working through chapter 8 and 9 of the Qur'an, and while generally I do see the imagery of war as metaphorical for the inner battle, the language is often far too specific to have more than one meaning - and knowing the traditional interpretations of these passages, I wonder if the Qur'an is really recording something so specific, and how or why that is something that is in a book for all people at all times.

Perhaps I simply can't see the importance of these chapters because I am lucky, thank God, to have been born and raised in a society that has not been at war and remains mostly peaceful (we just take our wars elsewhere and ruin poor people's lives). I recognize that war has been, and is, a fact of existence for the entirety of human existence. So I am not so na?ve to think there is no reason to talk about war in the Qur'an......I just don't "get it".

I just can't wrap my head around it. How do you fine people read these chapters? Do you find them difficult?


(Side question: The Monotheist Group translation uses "communion" for salat (I also like "duty" in Gerrans), and yet the passage referring to "do not commune over those that set up partnership" is confusing to me.....what is the communion? How are Muslims to commune? I want to say that the word not being clearly defined seems to imply group custom or practices of the Muslims, whatever those may be, but this one specific instance of salat seems weird to me.)

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Note on 4:34 and Sam Gerrans.
« on: September 02, 2017, 03:47:07 AM »
His rendition of verse 4:34 is the reason why I started doubting him. (By the way, the comments under the video are disgusting).
Then he came up with his videos on the flat earth and, although I didn't stop following him, I stopped trusting him as much as before.
I completely stopped following him after I saw that he moved to Georgia with his family to escape the "gay propaganda", "the New World Order", "chemtrails", "insert any other conspiracy theory here", of the West.
I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to trust a man who goes to the length of moving to a whole other continent to run away from problems that don't exist. He is paranoid and he lost all his credibility in my eyes.
Now that I know he also has a shitty personality I'm happy I unsubscribed his channel.


That's......actually pretty insane. Ah well. It's a shame he's a lunatic, but his translation remains a good benchmark upon which further work can be done. I hope that there is more and more of this sort of translation done down the road (I think it's called "formal equivalence"?).

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