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#1
Salam,

Diversity in recitation is a lame excuse. For example, when the word کبیر is replaced with کثیر then it gives different meaning. Similarly, when the word نار  is replaced with جھنم then the meaning changes. Hope you understand the difference. Which word was actually revealed by Allah?

Peace!
#2
Quote from: Sarah on August 16, 2023, 01:50:34 AM
Peace

So because I can't understand Arabic, I am a bit confused. Can or do all Arabic words have multiple meanings? Or just some and not others? Does this differ depending on if it's modern Arabic, classical or Quranic Arabic?

Salam,

In Arabic language, every word is based on a root-word. Just like a plant, every word has only one root-word with one root-meaning which may have many shoots and flowers and fruits etc (i.e. various meanings but based on the root-meaning).

For example, the words related with the root word ق-و-ل (Q-W-L) have occurred in Quran for about 1722 times.

The basic or root-meaning of this root-word is "to communicate by using one's body parts like head (e.g. nod), eyes (e.g., frown), hands (e.g., making sign), tongue (e.g., speak, utter etc)".

Usually the related words to this root-word (Q-W-L) are translated by considering the 'communication by using tongue' i.e., speaking/talking/uttering.

Peace!

#3
Salam!

Nice work bro, however, you have not suggested which variant is correct! Moreover, do these variants suggest that Allah's words can be changed by different writers or speakers?

Peace!
#4
Salam Sarah!

At first, what makes you think/believe that you need to practice dawah as the other sectrarians do?

Peace!
#5
Salam Everyone!

‎Introduction:
The Quran, a timeless source of guidance, invites believers to explore its verses from various angles. In ‎this spirit, we delve into the story of Prophet Jonah (Younas) from a unique perspective, aiming to ‎unveil hidden layers of meaning that might offer new insights into our understanding of faith, ‎struggles, and choices.‎

Alternate Translation of Quran Surah 37, Ayats 139-148:‎
Let's begin by exploring an alternate translation of Quran Surah 37, Ayats 139-148. By delving into the ‎root meanings of words, we unearth a fresh rendition that resonates with themes of inner conflict, ‎belief, growth, and consequences.‎

وَإِنَّ يُونُسَ لَمِنَ ٱلْمُرْسَلِينَ
‎[37:139] And indeed Younas is surely among the messengers. ‎

إِذْ أَبَقَ إِلَى ٱلْفُلْكِ ٱلْمَشْحُونِ
‎[37:140] When he withheld himself towards the sky, the furnished (with stars etc.) ‎

فَسَاهَمَ فَكَانَ مِنَ ٱلْمُدْحَضِينَ
‎[37:141] Then with deep/strong manner/expression he became among those who have no ‎firmness/certainty.‎

فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ وَهُوَ مُلِيمٌۭ
‎[37:142] So obstructed him the laziness (i.e., he became inactive) while he was hesitant.‎

فَلَوْلَآ أَنَّهُۥ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْمُسَبِّحِينَ
‎[37:143] If had he not been of those who dominate themselves, ‎

لَلَبِثَ فِى بَطْنِهِۦٓ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ‎ ‎
‎[37:144] (then) Surely he would have remained in this state/circumstances till the Day of ‎Resurrection, ‎

فَنَبَذْنَٰهُ بِٱلْعَرَآءِ وَهُوَ سَقِيمٌۭ
‎[37:145] So We let him remain in shame/disgrace while he was of ill-faith.‎

وَأَنۢبَتْنَا عَلَيْهِ شَجَرَةًۭ مِّن يَقْطِينٍۢ
‎[37:146] And We caused to grow over him a foundation from certainty/belief.‎

وَأَرْسَلْنَٰهُ إِلَىٰ مِا۟ئَةِ أَلْفٍ أَوْ يَزِيدُونَ
‎[37:147] And We sent him towards a hundred thousand (folk) or more

فَـَٔامَنُوا۟ فَمَتَّعْنَٰهُمْ إِلَىٰ حِينٍۢ
‎[37:148] And they believed, so We gave them enjoyment for a time.‎

Interpreting the Verses:
The heart of this approach lies in interpreting the Quran through the original, basic meanings of its root ‎words. This method encourages a deeper engagement with the text, allowing us to uncover nuances ‎that might not be evident at first glance.‎

‎Consistency Among Verses:‎
A striking revelation emerges when we compare our translated verses with other passages in the ‎Quran. Themes of patience, submission, belief, and the consequences of actions are consistent ‎throughout, showcasing the coherence of the Quran's message and reinforcing the idea that our ‎understanding is aligned with the Quranic narrative.‎

Comparing with Surah 68, Ayats 48-50 and Surah 10, Ayah 98:
We find resonance between our interpretation and Surah 68, Ayats 48-50, which emphasize patience ‎and submission, as well as Surah 10, Ayah 98, illustrating the transformative power of belief. These ‎parallels further affirm the validity of our unconventional approach.‎

فَٱصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ وَلَا تَكُن كَصَاحِبِ ٱلْحُوتِ إِذْ نَادَىٰ وَهُوَ مَكْظُومٌۭ
So submit patiently to the judgment of your Lord, and do not be like the Man ‎the Exhausted who called out as he choked with grief‏.‏
لَّوْلَآ أَن تَدَٰرَكَهُۥ نِعْمَةٌۭ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ لَنُبِذَ بِٱلْعَرَآءِ وَهُوَ مَذْمُومٌۭ
Had it not been for a blessing that came to his rescue from his Lord, he would ‎surely have been remained in shame/disgrace, being blameworthy‎‏.‏
فَٱجْتَبَٰهُ رَبُّهُۥ فَجَعَلَهُۥ مِنَ ٱلصَّٰلِحِينَ
Then his Lord chose him and made him one of the righteous

فَلَوْلَا كَانَتْ قَرْيَةٌ ءَامَنَتْ فَنَفَعَهَآ إِيمَٰنُهَآ إِلَّا قَوْمَ يُونُسَ لَمَّآ ءَامَنُوا۟ كَشَفْنَا عَنْهُمْ عَذَابَ ٱلْخِزْىِ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا ‏وَمَتَّعْنَٰهُمْ إِلَىٰ حِينٍۢ
‎010:098 Why then not there a place/community that believed, so benefited it its belief as did the folk ‎of Jonah! When they believed, We drew off from them the torment of disgrace in the life of the world ‎and gave them comfort for a while.‎

Reassessing "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" in Surah 21:87-88:
As we delve into the term "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" (Dhul-Nun) in Surah ‎‎21:87-88, a thought-provoking exploration ‎emerges. While conventional understanding links it to Jonah, our perspective widens. Our ‎interpretation aligns with the Quran's preference for specific prophet names in Surah 21 i.e., Noah, ‎Lot, Ibrahim etc., so we contend that "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" is a Proper Name for a prophet distinct from Jonah. ‎Notably, Ayats 87-88 in this Surah present a distinct theme, setting them apart from other verses ‎related to Jonah's narrative.‎

Broader Message and Significance:
Beyond the story's literal aspects, our interpretation delves into the inner struggles, personal growth, ‎and choices that shape our faith journey. By recognizing the consistent themes within the Quran, we ‎arrive at a profound realization of the transformative power of belief and the consequences of our ‎actions. ‎

Conclusion:
In embracing an unconventional approach to Quranic interpretation, we invite fellow believers to ‎engage in thoughtful discussions and explorations of the text. The Quran's rich tapestry of meanings ‎offers endless possibilities for deeper understanding, and our unique perspective on the story of ‎Jonah serves as a reminder that the Quran's wisdom is infinite and ever-relevant.‎

Peace!
#6
Salam Everyone!

Introduction:
The Quran, a timeless source of guidance, invites believers to explore its verses from various angles. In ‎this spirit, we delve into the story of Prophet Jonah (Younas) from a unique perspective, aiming to ‎unveil hidden layers of meaning that might offer new insights into our understanding of faith, ‎struggles, and choices.‎

Alternate Translation of Quran Surah 37, Ayats 139-148:
Let's begin by exploring an alternate translation of Quran Surah 37, Ayats 139-148. By delving into the ‎root meanings of words, we unearth a fresh rendition that resonates with themes of inner conflict, ‎belief, growth, and consequences.‎

وَإِنَّ يُونُسَ لَمِنَ ٱلْمُرْسَلِينَ
‎[37:139] And indeed Younas is surely among the messengers. ‎

إِذْ أَبَقَ إِلَى ٱلْفُلْكِ ٱلْمَشْحُونِ
‎[37:140] When he withheld himself towards the sky, the furnished (with stars etc.) ‎

فَسَاهَمَ فَكَانَ مِنَ ٱلْمُدْحَضِينَ
‎[37:141] Then with deep/strong manner/expression he became among those who have no ‎firmness/certainty.‎

فَٱلْتَقَمَهُ ٱلْحُوتُ وَهُوَ مُلِيمٌۭ
‎[37:142] So obstructed him the laziness (i.e., he became inactive) while he was hesitant.‎

فَلَوْلَآ أَنَّهُۥ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْمُسَبِّحِينَ
‎[37:143] If had he not been of those who dominate themselves, ‎

لَلَبِثَ فِى بَطْنِهِۦٓ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ‎ ‎
‎[37:144] (then) Surely he would have remained in this state/circumstances till the Day of ‎Resurrection, ‎

فَنَبَذْنَٰهُ بِٱلْعَرَآءِ وَهُوَ سَقِيمٌۭ
‎[37:145] So We let him remain in shame/disgrace while he was of ill-faith.‎

وَأَنۢبَتْنَا عَلَيْهِ شَجَرَةًۭ مِّن يَقْطِينٍۢ
‎[37:146] And We caused to grow over him a foundation from certainty/belief.‎

وَأَرْسَلْنَٰهُ إِلَىٰ مِا۟ئَةِ أَلْفٍ أَوْ يَزِيدُونَ
‎[37:147] And We sent him towards a hundred thousand (folk) or more

فَـَٔامَنُوا۟ فَمَتَّعْنَٰهُمْ إِلَىٰ حِينٍۢ
‎[37:148] And they believed, so We gave them enjoyment for a time.‎

Interpreting the Verses:
The heart of this approach lies in interpreting the Quran through the original, basic meanings of its root ‎words. This method encourages a deeper engagement with the text, allowing us to uncover nuances ‎that might not be evident at first glance.‎

Consistency Among Verses:
A striking revelation emerges when we compare our translated verses with other passages in the ‎Quran. Themes of patience, submission, belief, and the consequences of actions are consistent ‎throughout, showcasing the coherence of the Quran's message and reinforcing the idea that our ‎understanding is aligned with the Quranic narrative.‎

Comparing with Surah 68, Ayats 48-50 and Surah 10, Ayah 98:
We find resonance between our interpretation and Surah 68, Ayats 48-50, which emphasize patience ‎and submission, as well as Surah 10, Ayah 98, illustrating the transformative power of belief. These ‎parallels further affirm the validity of our unconventional approach.‎

فَٱصْبِرْ لِحُكْمِ رَبِّكَ وَلَا تَكُن كَصَاحِبِ ٱلْحُوتِ إِذْ نَادَىٰ وَهُوَ مَكْظُومٌۭ
So submit patiently to the judgment of your Lord, and do not be like the Man ‎the Exhausted who called out as he choked with grief‏.‏
لَّوْلَآ أَن تَدَٰرَكَهُۥ نِعْمَةٌۭ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ لَنُبِذَ بِٱلْعَرَآءِ وَهُوَ مَذْمُومٌۭ
Had it not been for a blessing that came to his rescue from his Lord, he would ‎surely have been remained in shame/disgrace, being blameworthy‎‏.‏
فَٱجْتَبَٰهُ رَبُّهُۥ فَجَعَلَهُۥ مِنَ ٱلصَّٰلِحِينَ
Then his Lord chose him and made him one of the righteous

فَلَوْلَا كَانَتْ قَرْيَةٌ ءَامَنَتْ فَنَفَعَهَآ إِيمَٰنُهَآ إِلَّا قَوْمَ يُونُسَ لَمَّآ ءَامَنُوا۟ كَشَفْنَا عَنْهُمْ عَذَابَ ٱلْخِزْىِ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا ‏وَمَتَّعْنَٰهُمْ إِلَىٰ حِينٍۢ
‎010:098 Why then not there a place/community that believed, so benefited it its belief as did the folk ‎of Jonah! When they believed, We drew off from them the torment of disgrace in the life of the world ‎and gave them comfort for a while.‎

Reassessing "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" in Surah 21:87-88:
As we delve into the term "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" (Dhul-Nun) in Surah ‎‎21:87-88, a thought-provoking exploration ‎emerges. While conventional understanding links it to Jonah, our perspective widens. Our ‎interpretation aligns with the Quran's preference for specific prophet names in Surah 21 i.e., Noah, ‎Lot, Ibrahim etc., so we contend that "‎ذَا النُّونِ‎" is a Proper Name for a prophet distinct from Jonah. ‎Notably, Ayats 87-88 in this Surah present a distinct theme, setting them apart from other verses ‎related to Jonah's narrative.‎

Broader Message and Significance:
Beyond the story's literal aspects, our interpretation delves into the inner struggles, personal growth, ‎and choices that shape our faith journey. By recognizing the consistent themes within the Quran, we ‎arrive at a profound realization of the transformative power of belief and the consequences of our ‎actions. ‎

Conclusion:
In embracing an unconventional approach to Quranic interpretation, we invite fellow believers to ‎engage in thoughtful discussions and explorations of the text. The Quran's rich tapestry of meanings ‎offers endless possibilities for deeper understanding, and our unique perspective on the story of ‎Jonah serves as a reminder that the Quran's wisdom is infinite and ever-relevant.‎

Peace!
#7
Quote from: jkhan on July 26, 2023, 07:55:46 PM
Peace..

You misunderstood it totally... Just read it and get what I communicated to you... I explained what actually brought to the heart means...

Second point..
I don't need to bring another root word here while we discuss about Qul.. Just you explore what root كلم means.. Brief explanation.. Allah speaks / communicates means what?  He has got a message and He delivers it.. And how? Three modes.. Role of communication is to pass the message in whichever way possible?  Is that right?  God opted and preferred three modes to communicate... If you think written mode is not communication then it is thebmkst weird thought ever...
And if you think that root of this word is only oral uttering then it is your own speculation..
Let me ask you a logical question?  Does Allah talk to you through Quran or not?  Stick to topic pls..

Salam!

Brother, there is simply NO EVIDENCE that Quran was revealed to the prophet in WRITTEN MODE. Even there is no proof that Musa was given a Written Book/Tablets. Secondly, Allah DOES NOT SPEAK TO ME through Quran.

Peace!
#8
brother jkhan!

It seems that you are greatly inspired by the hadith (do not remember the reference) in which it is mentioned that Jibreel came in Hira cave with a green silk cloth and Iqra bi-ismi rabbika... was written on it so Jibreel asked the prophet to READ from the WRITTEN.

And then the same green silk cloth with image of Bibi Aisha was presented to the prophet (Reference    : Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3880)... Lol!

I quoted from a Quranic ayah 2:97 which you related with hadith and never mentioned what you think about revelation on prophet's Qalb as per Quran. Share your understanding.

Secondly, when you talk about three modes of revelation you forget to mention what the root ک ل م means. Is it related with written revelations?

Peace!
#9
Salam!

نَزَّلَهُۥ عَلَىٰ قَلْبِكَ بِإِذْنِ ٱللَّهِ  tells that the first messenger of Quran had it in his Qalb so he could recite from his memory thus a written Quran was needed.

Peace!
#10
brother jkhan!

Translation cannot be interpretation but we can perceive what is being said so Qul translated as "Say" can also mean/be perceived as "to Ask", "to recite", "to speak", "to tell", "to relate" or "to answer" or "to announce" but all formations of the root Qaf-Waw-Laam are related with speech or oral communication. That is what I am able to extract from all ayahs. Mostly it is bilateral oral communication because other formations of root Qaf-Waw-Laam are also present in these ayats or in their context.

For example: 2:111 which as per my understanding
(None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew (who thinks that only he is the guided one) or a Christian(who thinks that he is helping God to fulfill His mission)
is a claim which is also being claimed by different sects till today and you can still ask them to (Produce your proof, if you should be truthful.). This bilateral dialogue is still continuous and will remain till the Last day and God's revelation will keep guiding the Mu'mineen in this regard.

Below is another example:
قُلْ إِنَّمَآ أُنذِرُكُم بِٱلْوَحْىِ ۚ وَلَا يَسْمَعُ ٱلصُّمُّ ٱلدُّعَآءَ إِذَا مَا يُنذَرُونَ
Say: "I warn you only by the Revelation" But the deaf hear nothing when they are warned.
Notice both of the words in bold. This is a proof from Quran itself that the revelation is related with "to say" and "to listen" and not with "to show" and "to see".

Would appreciate if someone could come up with a different perspective and more in-depth ideas.

Peace!