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Peace all,

From a previous discussion: WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE OTHER THAN...HOMO SAPIEN SAPIEN;topicseen#msg41678

In 6:131, the word used is "al-ins" which is the singular form of "an-nass" present in 22:73, with the help of the verse 114:6, we can see this clearly.

Please note that "ins" is different from "insaane", and "jin" is different from "jaan" (as in 15:27). My view is that "ins" and "jin" are two psychological aspects of the humans "bashar", some humans are more enclined to the aspect "ins" thus called "insaane", the others are more enclined to the "jin" aspect and thus called "jaan".

It's hard to distinguish between those words when reading a translation because translators generally translate "ins" "annas" and "insaane" and "bashar" as the same, which is confusing and sometimes leads to contradictions.

In my view,
Insaan refers to an extrovert person that prefers to be in community with other persons, and mixes well in social situations. Insaan comes from root alif-noun-seen, which means to socialise. An-naas is the plural of al-insaane.

Jaan refers to an introvert or reserved person that prefers to be away from the crowd (and the eyes). Al-jinnatoo is the the plural of al-jaan.

All of us are made of the same basic components or atoms as mud, they are only arranged in different ways.

Bashar or homo sapiens is the species. When it acquires speech it becomes insaan or human.

Before the ability of speech,  human's thoughts were hidden or from the jin. After acquiring speech, humans become able to show some bits of their thoughts or hidden world to others.

At the same times, it was made possible to tell lies, which was impossible before.

You can think of these steps like the growing steps of a new born baby (bashar) until he starts saying some words around 2 yo and making sentences around 4-5yo. This is where the kid's Ego develops making him aware of himself. This process took surely much more time before, and was a paradigm in human evolution.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Verses 2.143- 145
« on: July 10, 2020, 06:37:49 PM »
Peace Fadiva,

Please see below post from hafeez kazi about al-masjid al-haram, You may check the complete thread here:

They ask you concerning fighting in the Sacred Months, "Fighting therein is a great (transgression) but a greater (transgression) with Allah is to prevent mankind from following the Way of Allah, to disbelieve in Him, to prevent access to Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah), and to drive out its inhabitants, and Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can. And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter, and they will be the dwellers of the Fire. They will abide therein forever." 2:217

We shall translate the verse and shall remove the word (men) in brackets from the translation

Yasalon Ka An Ash Shahr Al Haram       they ask thee concerning the prohibited months
Qitaal Fe Hi               fighting in it
Qul Qitaal Fe Hi Kaber         say fighting in it is great (transgression)
Wa Sadd An Sabeel Allah         and to keep away from the path of Allah
Wa Kufr Bi Hi               and disbelieve in it (way of Allah)
Wa Al Masjid Al Haram         and the Masjid Al Haram
Wa Ikhraj Ahl Hi              and drive out its followers
Min Hu Akbar Inda Allah         from it is greatest (transgression) near Allah
Wa Al Fitnah Akbar Min Al Qatl      and seduction is greater than the killing

According to the translation it means TO KEEP AWAY from THE WAY OF ALLAH DISBELIEVING in the WAY OF ALLAH and MASJID AL HARAM and driving out its followers FROM IT (way of Allah and Masjid Al Haram) is the greatest transgression.

If the above translation is correct then it becomes difficult to understand what is disbelief in the physical MASJID AL HARAM, which was not there when this verse was revealed?

Verily! Those who disbelieve and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah, and from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) which We have made (open) to (all) men, the dweller in it and the visitor from the country are equal there [as regards its sanctity and pilgrimage (Hajj and 'Umrah)]. And whoever inclines to evil actions therein or to do wrong (i.e. practise polytheism and leave Islamic Monotheism), him We shall cause to taste a painful torment. 22:25


Inna Alladhena Kafaro           
Verily Those who disbelieve

Wa Yasuddon An Sabeel Allah         
And Keep away from the Way of Allah

Wa Al Masjid Al Haram         
And The Masjid Al Haram

Alladhe Jaalna Hu Li An Naas         
Which we have appointed for the people

Sawaa Al Aakif Fe Hi           
Equal are the dedicated in it

Wa Al Badi           
And the perished

Wa Man Yurid Fe Hi Bi Ilhad         
And whoever seeks in it with infidelity   

Bi Zulm               
with oppression   

Nuzhiq Hu Min Adhaab Alem         
We shall taste him of Our painful punishment

The Way of Allah and the Masjid Al Haram is appointed for MANKIND (not exclusively to the believers or Muslims) those who are dedicated in it and those who have perished in it are equal.

If the above translation is correct then how it is possible to remain dedicated in the Masjid Al Haram and how it is possible for anyone perish in it.

Again Allah is saying that His Way and the Masjid Al Haram was appointed for the mankind, but when this verse was revealed the Masjid Al Haram was not there, then how it is possible to disbelieve in anything which do not exist.

Since these are the words of Allah then it is truth and the Masjid Al Haram did exist, but how?


Verily! We have seen the turning of your face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Haram And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures know well that, it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. 2:144

To those whom We gave the Book know it as they know their sons and verily a party among you indeed hides the truth and they know it. 2:146

The Masjid Al Haram did not come into existence after Mecca was captured but it was there before it and from the time of prophet Moses.

The people of the Book knew that Masjid Al Haram is the truth from their Lord and they knew as they know their sons and therefore prophet Moses and prophet Jesus also knew it.

If Masjid Al Haram is physical then there is nothing in it to be disbelieved. It is also not a truth that can be hidden because a known truth is either in the heart or in the Books and the Masjid Al Haram (in their language) was mentioned in their Books and a party among the prophets was knowingly hiding the truth. During the period of our prophet Jews and Christians were scattered in many parts of the world and therefore it was not possible that the people of the Book knew the physical Masjid as they know their sons.

If Masjid Al Haram is the direction of the prayers and if it is the truth from the Lord then remember neither the people of Moses nor the people of Jesus ever prayed facing Masjid Al Haram. Prophet Moses and prophet Jesus never visited the Masjid Al Haram nor the House of Allah located in Mecca.


Why the Masjid Al Haram and Bait Al Haram were abandoned after prophet Abraham?

Why prophet Moses and Jesus neglected it?

Why both prophets did not pray facing the Masjid Al Haram or the Bait Al Haram?

Why Allah did not order both prophets to pray facing Masjid Al Haram or Kaaba?

Why Allah did not order both prophets to visit His House (Bait Al Haram)?

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Qur'an 17:36
« on: June 26, 2020, 06:00:57 PM »
Salam everyone

There's something I have trouble understanding, and I would like some thoughts on this.
In the Qur'an, verse 17:36 states the following: And do not follow what you have no knowledge of. The hearing, and the sight, and the brains/heart—all these will be questioned.
And in 18:4-5: And to warn those who say, “The Lofty Refuge has begotten a son.” They have no knowledge of this, nor did their forefathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths. They say nothing but a lie.
The Qur'an says we should not follow what we have no knowledge of, and criticizes those (Christians) who say that God has begotten a son, because they have no knowledge of this.
But... Followers of various religious beliefs have no more 'knowledge' about the factual legitimacy of their beliefs than Christians. This includes followers of the Qur'an. A follower of the Qur'an does not, cannot and will not know anything pertaining to God, or the lack thereof, until perhaps his death. He can only choose to believe one thing or another, with more or less basis in logic, history, science etc., but he can never have knowledge. This is why religions such as Christianity, Islam, etc. are called faiths.
So, can anyone inform me of why it is considered an illegitimate act due to lack of knowledge on the matter for people to have faith in Jesus as the son of God, but not an illegitimate act, despite lack of knowledge on the matter, for people to have faith in the Qur'an?
I'm wondering if the answer to my question lies in the meaning of the Arabic word used, "'ilm"? I have looked up the root in several dictionaries, but the definitions have failed to enlighten me.
People of the free-minds forum, please come to my aid and gift me with your insights and thoughts on this.


Peace Wanderer,

I think it is a healthy habit to question any and every assertion encountered during our life, from where ever it may come, even from the gospel or the quran. In fact and in reality, no thing nor any person or any concept or idea is sacred, it all can be questioned and criticized for their value and benefit.

This is a strong foundation to build your system on -- Do not consider any thing as sacred -- all our knowledge, books, ideas about the creator god, countries, religions, organisations... all are constructions in human mind, no real link to Reality. As per science, we can sense only 5% of what is really existing, using all our scientific might. So how can anyone claim knowledge of anything?

Also, the creator of this universe is way beyond what we may think of him. BUT, with our experience in this life, we trust him to bring back the sun the next day according to his laws, and we trust him for keeping enough air for everyone to breath, again according to his natural laws, and we trust him to let us wake the next morning after a good night sleep... we trust the creator for many critical things... And the creator doesn't need our faith or trust, but we need to trust him, as the creator is the only constant in existence, all else is in a transitory state. 

His open book, accessible for everyone and in every period, is the book of this creation, written according to his law, for everyone to see and to learn from. But most of us fall into human fantasies and live confused.
So yes, you can question any thing, even the quran. And if doesn't stand scrutiny, then dump it and look elsewhere.

I hope this helps. If so, I can give you the second principle to live in peace.



Introduce Yourself / Re: Una ancienne de france
« on: December 12, 2019, 04:47:04 PM »
Bonjour Houriya,

Ça fait plaisir te revoir sur le forum, Marie  :D

Pour ton problème de connexion, ça devrait être réglé après quelques connexions, par la suite tu devras utiliser seulement ton mot de passe. C'est une mesure de sécurité pour les nouveaux comptes.

Sinon, Tu peux contacter Layth, Wakas ou un des modérateurs.

Aussi, j'ai hâte de connaître tes nouvelles idées.  :!   :sun:



Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Allah prays for Muhammad - David wood
« on: November 14, 2018, 07:07:28 PM »

The god does the same for those who believe. Him and his malaika youssallo 3ala allathina aamanou.

FM translation 33:41-43

O you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.
And glorify Him morning and evening.
He is the One who communes towards you, along with His angels, to bring you out of darkness and into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.


This is not exclusive for naby.  :!   :confused:

Forum Suggestions / Facebook share button
« on: September 20, 2017, 06:53:14 PM »
Peace all,

I think it would be useful to add Facebook share button on the website as well as the forum. It will be easier to share articles and posts.

Economics Forum / Re: Maximum Assets per Person
« on: August 04, 2017, 09:23:58 AM »
Greetings and Peace all  :group:

There is nothing wrong with exploring ideas. I don't agree with this MAP idea for the reasons below, but it is certainly correct to discuss ideas. The greatest changes in human history have not been through things, but through ideas. Truly something from nothing.

There is nothing wrong with wealth, even concentrated wealth. It is one of the reasons why people strive and take calculated risks. A person who struggles to start a business and puts in the work and as a result becomes wealthy, why should they be punished? If I risk my assets and put in 100 hours a week for years on end in order to launch a business and make it succeed, why should my rewards be limited? Keep in mind that business blesses employees and the public and continues the primary function of money--circulation.

Peace Abdul-Hadi,

Thank you for your comments.

Similarly to adopting a minimal wage level in most countries because it is considered immoral to hire someone with under such level of salary, it can also be considered immoral to own more than the MAP while others are lacking the basic requirements for living with dignity.

I don't see anything wrong with wealth or getting the fruit of one's own efforts, to the contrary I am all for it and for all the people if possible; Unfortunately, as per the statistics, only less than 1% of the adult population is able to achieve such a level of wealth. It doesn't mean that the 99% remaining are not working hard enough or are not smart enough... it just means that the current distribution of wealth is out of balance and some new paradigm needs to be adopted.

Further, much more than five million dollars is required for certain projects; to limit individuals to an arbitrary amount would necessarily limit progress--not all companies are suitable for pooling of resources for startup. Riskier or less politically correct businesses should not automatically no longer be possible--something that a MAP could inadvertently create. For me to start up a business extracting rare earth elements from fly ash or building a propane-powered-appliance factory in Afghanistan or any other number of projects, these projects carry risks and would require personal liquidity of more than five million US dollars to be successful. These projects would also be beneficial--too bad that they would not be possible under the proposed plan.

What do you think it costs to start a pharmaceutical company? What do you think it would cost to develop and market a transdermal IV patch that high risk individuals could wear that, when needed, would directly put IV fluid through leaky one-way valves into the interstitial fluid? What if I told you that it would probably be a billion dollars. That means that if a MAP was 5M, it would take over 200 people putting ALL of their assets together and leaving no other assets for a risky but beneficial venture. It would likely never happen. Too bad for all the people that could benefit, the firefighters, law enforcement professionals, people with small or damaged blood vessels, and military...

Similarly to the current system, shareholders may participate in such large scale companies. With the MAP, the only difference would be that you will get so many small shareholders, no big ones; I think that the businesses will be more transparent as the risk, effort and interests are equally shared.

With the MAP and the excess wealth redistributed, only the specialists in a discipline will mostly dare to invest in it, not any joe with big wallet. Like in pharmaceutical field, most probably only pharmacologists will organize themselves to make the necessary researches for new treatments because only them can estimate the risk and efforts, and they would have the means to do it if they are in large numbers, without needing any external funds or investments.   

Such a model will force people to participate and share the responsibilities, efforts, investment, income and power. The decision making process will not be in the hands of only a few elite. 

If everyone started out with an equal amount, in a short period of time the money would still be as it is today. Not everyone is good with money. The guy selling candy bars would make money, and the people buying candy bars would eat their candy bars and complain about being broke. It is human nature.

You are right about this. But if you have a close look to the graphic in the original post, you will see that the wealthiest (A) 0.7% owns 116 trillions$, while the poorest (B) 73% owns only 6 trillions. If you take only 10% from group A (11,6 tr$) and give it to group (B), then it will literally triple (x3) the wealth of group B with a total of 17,6 tr$; This will dramatically impact the lives of group B, but it will almost have no effect on the quality of living of group A. 

What happens when land values rise and land (such as a farm) has to be sold off to limit the MAP? Where does the "excess" go anyway? Money is fiat and it doesn't benefit the government to get it back.

Small land owners can get the excess land from the big owners, and run bigger farms.

There is nothing wrong with wealth legitimately gained through ability, talent, or hard work. A better plan is to make it more possible for people to thrive when they provide either ability, talent, or hard work. The answer is not to provide obstacles for the lawful accumulation of wealth, but to remove obstacles for people to succeed.

Communism didn't work and fascism didn't work and democracy, even with its flaws, seems to be the most viable economic system.

The MAP will enforce democracy because power(read money) will be shared. And this is not communism nor fascism, it can be implemented in a liberal system to make it more moral than the current system in which only less than 1% can get wealthy.

Any place that instituted this MAP idea would see both wealth and talent leave for elsewhere. New businesses would be few and far between, and people would hoard assets (maybe precious metal coins with a face value, for instance).

Yes that's a potential risk, but it is the same trick for avoiding taxes in current systems so same control methods can be used.

Personally, I'm concerned about when nanomachines become mainstream. When buildings and other structures can be built in minutes from the earth, when people live hundreds of years because of nanomachines in their bloodstream, and when food can be produced and manufactured goods can be created cheaply with the aid of nanomachines, the human population will explode. There won't be many jobs, except in art and service industry. If money doesn't exist, there is the strong possibility that human technology will plateau and stagnate--who is going to do cutting edge research without motivation?

By the way, I figured out how to power nanomachines.  :) Much better for everyone to get the benefits, because the only alternative is to only have the military application...  :'(

If such nano machines are invented in the current system by some big company, then be sure that only the group A (0.7%) above will take benefit from it (as only them can afford it) to get even more wealth and abuse even more the rest of the population.

If it is invented in a MAP configuration, then the company will be owned by a large number of shareholders, and so the information and knowledge is wide spread about it, then no one can use it to abuse others, not even militarily.

Anyway, good luck in your researches on powering nanomachines. I am curious to know more about it if you are comfortable with sharing it...   

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.




Economics Forum / Re: Maximum Assets per Person
« on: August 04, 2017, 08:01:00 AM »
You're welcome...

Too much supply and too low price is also not good...
It's happening as we speak in China..
60 Minutes Report - China's Ghost Cities

Mind you that in China all land belongs to government, thus buying land and left it idle for the sake of 'investment' is not an option there...

The art is to find the 'right balance'...
Too much of something is not good, too few of something is also not good..

A concept which was introduced by chinese around 3000 years ago..

Maybe the chinese government should just give the apartments for free to the people in need (or with minimal rent), then the ghost cities will get some life... and businesses will start.... and other bigger companies will follow because there is some labour in that area...

Isn't china communist anymore?  ;D  :hmm


In the name of the god, the creator, the most merciful.
20:1   T'H'
20:2   We did not send down to you the reading so you may suffer.
20:3   It is but a reminder for he who is concerned.
20:4   Sent down from the One who has created the earth and the heavens above.
20:5   The Almighty, upon the Throne He settled.
20:6   To Him is what is in the heavens and what is on the earth, and what is between them, and what is beneath the ground.
20:7   And if you will declare openly what you say, then surely He knows the secret and what is hidden.
20:8   The god, there is no god except He, to Him are the beautiful names.

Peace all,

To have 4 witnesses to a sexual act, it would mean that it is public sex or pornography. Surely such activities are bad for the community and individuals, thus it is not accepted in al quran, and should be fighted.

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