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Messages - aqua

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1
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 25, 2020, 01:48:06 PM »
As for this brother aqua,quote:
"The verse (6:19) does not say 'comes after' at all. It says 'whoever it reaches' without implying a future tense."

Are we not discussing Qoran? So it has reached us and we are in the future of its time!
it does imply the present of that time when it was sent and the future after it.Your copy of Qoran testifies this truth.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

The verse refers to the Prophet using the Qur'an to warn others while he was alive. The obvious meaning is the present of that time, not the future. Stretching this to include the future would be an unjustified extrapolation.

2
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 25, 2020, 12:21:05 PM »
There is a difference  between GOD s commandments to all generations and rules /regulations/instructions  how to lead day to day life of particular generations.
Or are you saying "do not kill  an innocent person" is an outdated command?
Also GOD catered for all generations: Or does GOD only send messengers/scripture to the past generations?:

Statements like 'do not kill an innocent person' may form a principle or moral which can be universally understood and applied in modern times. This is different to specific rules or instructions which are time-bound and context-specific.

Quote
GOD has made sure to move with the times like you say  and sent Qoran to "supersede/replace " older scriptures. , What replaces Qoran for you now if you say its commands are outdated> Or do you pick and choose ? Or where is today s scripture from GOD?

Without a contemporary scripture, we can still derive principles, morals or wisdom from previous scriptures without taking them literally. This is not restricted to only the Qur'an.

Quote
Qoran is clear that  it is a scripture for all generations from the prophet onwards:
Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever comes after you. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
قُل أَىُّ شَىءٍ أَكبَرُ شَهٰدَةً قُلِ اللَّهُ شَهيدٌ بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَأوحِىَ إِلَىَّ هٰذَا القُرءانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُم لَتَشهَدونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللَّهِ ءالِهَةً أُخرىٰ قُل لا أَشهَدُ قُل إِنَّما هُوَ إِلٰهٌ وٰحِدٌ وَإِنَّنى بَرىءٌ مِمّا تُشرِكونَ
 !Wa Man Balagh"   Whomever comes after and reaches them -all the generations after that time!-

The verse (6:19) does not say 'comes after' at all. It says 'whoever it reaches' without implying a future tense.

3
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 24, 2020, 07:13:52 PM »
You're talking about assumption but you're the one making the assumption that the Quran is not timeless. You have no proof of that.

5:48
And We have sent the Book down to you in truth, confirming that which is between one's hands of the Scripture and as a Criterion over it. So judge between them by what God has sent down and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We made a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. Your return is to God all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning those [matters] in which you used to differ.


Well the verse you just quoted even shows that laws in each scripture were for specific times. If there is no new scripture, we can still take principles and wisdom from previous scriptures.

4
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 24, 2020, 01:40:53 PM »
After many rules you will find the statement "these are the limits set by God, do not transgress them" such as some divorce rules:

2:229 Divorce is twice. Then, either keep [her] in an acceptable manner or release [her] with good [treatment]. And it is not lawful for you to take anything of what you have given them unless both fear that they will not be able to keep [within] the limits of God. But if you fear that they will not keep [within] the limits of God, then there is no blame upon either of them concerning that which she ransoms herself by. These are the limits of God, so do not transgress them. And whoever transgresses the limits of God - it is those who are the wrongdoers. .

2:232
And when you divorce women and they have reached their term, do not prevent them from remarrying their [former] husbands if they agree amongst themselves on an acceptable basis. That is instructed to whoever of you believes in God and the Last Day. That is better for you and purer, and God knows and you do not know.

65:1
O prophet, when you divorce women, divorce them for their waiting period and keep count of the waiting period, and fear God, your Lord. Do not turn them out of their houses, nor should they leave unless they are committing a clear immorality. And those are the limits [set by] God. And whoever transgresses the limits of God has certainly wronged himself. You do not know; perhaps God will bring about a [different] matter after that.

65:2
And when they have reached their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or part with them according to acceptable terms. And bring two just witnesses from among you and establish the testimony for God. That is instructed to whoever should believe in God and the Last Day. And whoever fears God - He will make a way out for him

Fasting

2:187 It has been made lawful for you to go to your wives the night [preceding] fasting. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. God knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned towards you and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which God has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes clear to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the night.  And do not have relations with them as long as you are devoted in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] God, so do not approach them. Thus, God makes His verses clear to the people so that they may fear [Him].

How to make your will

4:12 And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any will they [may have] made or debt. And for [the wives] is one fourth if you have no child. But if you have a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any will you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than that, they are partners in a third, after any will which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] a will from God, and God is Knowing and Forbearing.

4:13
These are the limits [set by] God, and whoever obeys God and His messenger will be admitted by Him to Gardens [in Paradise] in which rivers flow beneath them, abiding eternally therein; and that is the great success.

4:14
And whoever disobeys God and His messenger and transgresses His limits - He will put him into the Fire to abide eternally therein, and he will have a humiliating punishment.

General description of what a believer is

9:112 It is the believers who repent, who are devoted to worship, who praise their Lord, who fast, who bow down and prostrate themselves, who encourage good and forbid evil, and who observe the limits set by God. And give good news to the believers.


Thanks for the verses. There is an assumption that the specific 'limits' mentioned in the Qur'an are timeless and intended for all times. There are similar verses in the Bible which speak of following God's rules/limits, eg. John 14:15. If rules/commandments in the Bible can become outdated, why not the Qur'an? Are we supposed to make a distinction between God's messages?

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 22, 2020, 09:15:17 PM »
Peace be upon you!

Allow me to refute your claim. (6:116) is one of the verses where God tells us that the majority will end up in hell either because of disbelief or shirk.

These following verses also confirm the matter:

[6:116] If you were to obey the majority of those in the earth, they will mislead you away from the path of God. They follow nothing but conjecture; they only guess.

[12:103] The majority of people, no matter how eager you may be, are not believers.

[12:106] The majority of those who believe in God do not do so without committing shirk.

[7:48] Your large numbers did not avail you, nor did your arrogance!

[38:82-83] He said, "By Your majesty, I will lead them all astray, except for Your pure servants among them."

[34:20] Satan has indeed confirmed his thoughts about them to be true, for they followed him except for a group of believers.



The current demographics of atheism/disbelief is not the same as that during the time of the Qur'an. Today, less than 10% of the world's population disbelieves in God. This is not a majority by any means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

It's worth remembering that the Qur'an was revealed in a completely different time era with very different socio-economic, political and religious demographics. Many of the rules, rituals and social references in the Qur'an are therefore obsolete and no longer applicable.

6
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM »
You just proved my point that you're picking and choosing what you want to believe which isnt believing in God. It's like saying you believe someone but dont believe what they tell you to do.

Where does it say in the Qur'an that its rules and rituals are timeless and meant for all times in the future?

7
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: December 22, 2020, 01:20:19 PM »
Saying you believe in God but dont believe in His scriptures is like saying you believe in some person but dont believe what they say.

There's a difference between believing that the overall message of a scripture is true and believing that all the rules and rituals in the scripture have to be applied in the same way as the time of revelation. The Qur'an never claims that its rules and rituals are intended to be timeless and applied more than 1400 years in the future. The main message of the Quran is about belief in God and doing good.

8
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: November 12, 2020, 02:47:01 PM »
I agree with you here about some things. Even before writing my question, I did not believe every sunni or every jew, christian etc.  would go to hell. It depends on their specific beliefs and how they lived their lives, if they're rejecters after information received, signs, warnings etc.

God is not so shallow that He would punish people who, despite believing in God and doing good all their lives, simply didn't accept the Qur'an. Please see verse 2:112 which also supports this.

9
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: November 11, 2020, 05:15:08 AM »
are you sure? Please explain further. The 2 sentences you mentioned are quite different i.e. not the same sentence at all.

For example, traditional Sunnis may 'mislead from God's path' using Hadith, but it doesn't necessarily mean all Sunnis are destined for Hell. It depends on how they lived their lives. The same applies to non-Muslims according to 2:62 and 5:69.

10
General Issues / Questions / Re: Most people will go to Hell
« on: November 10, 2020, 07:38:42 PM »
The verse you are probably referring to, verse 6:116, does not actually say "most people are destined for Hell". It says 'they will mislead you from God's path', which doesn't necessarily mean they're all going to Hell.

The verse after that, 6:117, agrees with what good logic said above.

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