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Messages - Jane

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Pilgrimage (Hajj) / Re: WHAT MAKAH SHALL BE#2
« on: July 17, 2019, 03:54:14 AM »
Blame the Jesuits and the Zionists for the House of Saud. The English-speaking world has been controlled by them for hundreds of years.

Pilgrimage (Hajj) / Re: WHAT MAKAH SHALL BE#2
« on: July 17, 2019, 03:51:39 AM »
God doesn't curse Arabs in the Qur'an. It says the Bedouin, the nomads, are prone to hypocrisy and disbelief. Muhammad was a Nabbatean who were settled merchants. It's not the English-speaking world which created the circus at Mecca, S.A. Nor was it them who caused the earthquake which led to the abandonment of the original Masjid Al Haram in the Bacca valley (modern-day Petra). The setting up of Mecca in S.A. the Nabbateans did on their own.

┬┐Can you give the aya?



The fct that you put the Bible at he same level as the Qur'an as far as authenticity is concerned does not speak very favourably of your criteria in this matter, in fact is weird. With the worst wishes of the antiQur'nic crowd, there are very, very, very very slight differences between those different Qur'ans you speak about, why don't you list them here ans quote them in arabic? We could see what is their real import. What do they change? Is there in any of them something shocking like the Eve story in the Bible, o what are those horrible and unberble differences? On the other hand clearly the one which is older and no record of it having been changed is the one overwhwelmy used.

So please, quote that unbearable content of the Qur'an that we cannot approve because it is plainly  inmoral, contradictory, etc.


You only think the Qur'an is preserved whilst the Torah was corrupted because you grew up hearing that. Muslims tell themselves that the Qur'an has been preserved because they want to believe God is on their side.

I only speak English. I've read both Rashad Khalifa's and the Monotheist Group translation all the way through. I read ongoing debates about the exact translation. I also read what Arabic speakers have to say about the finer points of some verses to try and get the exact meaning. It appears there are minor differences with major implications between the different Quran versions.

An Arabic speaker discusses it here:

So far I find contradictory: God says he sent it down to Muhammad yet we are also told that Muhammad went on a night journey up to heaven to get it. Why up AND down. We're told it happened on 1 night, a blessed night, yet instructed to fast a few days. Why a few days if it was just one night?? Why does God say he doesn't forgive idol worship yet says he forgives ALL sins? He doesn't forgive idol worship yet says he forgave the Israelites after they worshipped the golden calf in Moses' absence. That was idol worship!

Why the punishment of flogging for fornication yet also the punishment of house arrest for women who commit lewdness. Why both? What type of lewdness is not fornication. Are we to lock women up for life for flirting? Not dressing modestly? How is this right. Why 100 lashes for both men and women yet a woman's testimony is half that of a man. Are we half or equal or what? A man's body can withstand 100 lashes much better than a woman's, how is it fair that they both receive 100. Why not 50 for the woman since she is half that of a man? God is supposed to be compassionate. What if she's pregnant from the fornication. DOES ANYONE REALLY WANT TO SEE A PREGNANT WOMAN GET LASHED 100 TIMES IN PUBLIC??? Should we wait until after she's had the baby? Now she's traumatised and let's imagine she develops depression and rejects the baby and so we have to give it to someone else to raise. It's ridiculous. And don't even get me started on 4:34. These verses encourage hostility and misery between people. They're from men not from God.

The surah order was changed by Uthman. We know that. The surah order is not from God yet we're supposed to believe the content is 100% from God? FFS wake up.

The words of God are infallible

Our understanding of the words of God is NOT infallible

When they were sent down yes. Now they have all been corrupted. The Qur'an is corrupted just like the Torah. It's wishful thinking to claim it was preserved over 1,400 years. We will probably never know the true words of God. We can read the scriptures but we must maintain an open mind and rely on our conscience to lead the way.

In the Qur'an it says God is compassionate to those who devote their lives to serving God unfortunately it doesn't go into details as to how that's different from ordinary belief.

Off-Topic / Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« on: July 13, 2019, 05:32:57 AM »

When people think this is acceptable you know hijab culture has become toxic. Children deserve the right to grow up feeling the sun on their head and wind through their hair. What they choose to wear as an adult is up to them.

God will not let the Saudis get away with this. Even if everyone else does.

Off-Topic / Re: Why Hijab/Modesty culture is toxic to society
« on: July 12, 2019, 02:10:58 AM »
Ultrasounds damage tissue. It's Radiation. Don't get them. If you have a health problem intermittent fast or total fast until it gets better. I just completed a 5 day dry fast. I can feel old injuries that I received 20 years ago that never fully healed start to heal some more. Aiming for a 7 day dry fast soon, hopefully that will ramp it up even more God-willing.

Otherwise I agree with everything else you wrote. I got harassed as a 16 year old whilst on holiday in Egypt in 2001; it was January and I had my limbs completely covered but the combination of being a foreign woman and not covering my head somehow made me a target for some older boys who spotted me. Never experienced anything like that in the West.

A lot of Qur'an-Aloners seem to be holding on to the Sunni belief that the Qur'an has been divinely preserved because it is special. Some Sunnis believe the Qur'an itself has magic powers! It's just silliness.

The Qur'an as revealed to Muhammad (if that really was his real name 'cause we don't actually know) was perfect but what we've got now is nowhere near the same thing. Believers want to know God's word so it's not to be abandoned I think but we should be focusing on working out which parts of it are original and which have been added in. I personally suspect Muhammad's night journey and Laylat Al Qadr are additions as they make no sense, don't fit with the Shar Ramadan story of when the Qur'an was revealed AND they are very similar to pre-Muhammad pagan beliefs. It's important we get to the bottom of how much the Qur'an has been corrupted.

Traditional Muslims could assist with this but instead are resisting by clinging to the belief that the Qur'an is perfect and unchanged. Saying it's the translations that are wrong but the original Arabic is perfect is bizarre since there are 5 different Qur'an versions used I believe and the Arabic text differs between them. Which one of these is the real one then?? You can see why Neptin is frustrated.

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