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Science / History / Prophecy => Science => Topic started by: theNabster on June 07, 2021, 08:15:28 AM

Title: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: theNabster on June 07, 2021, 08:15:28 AM
from my @Twitter feeds - (I think very relevant in this age of pandemic).

Viruses in theology - what does God mean by unleashing viruses? Follows a thread that will be displeasing to religious & non religious people alike, that includes me, but a Believer should not shy from truth, however humbling & humiliating -

Based on Qur'an. I will post the relevant verses later, my understanding of Qur'an is organic, which means I have read it so many times since I was 13, that usually I can make statements based on it without having to quote verses, though I was wrong a few times, but not often.

I will base this on two. There is one verse where God says he tests hypocrites once or twice a year with illness perchance they return (i.e. stop their poisonous undermining of God's Creation).

Another verse is about Job who is the epitome in Qur'an of being tested by illness & affliction. Strangely Job is quoted on attributing his illness on being touched by Satan with pain & suffering.

& Science (well the insights we get from analysing how things work) - what is the use & purpose of viruses? that is apart from being entropy accelerant of decay for human & animal bodies.
It is argued viruses are not alive, but owe their existence to the body (cells) they infect.

There is one baffling element of the viral paradigm, & that is its ability to mutate, using mutations to improve its capability of survival, but is that not an element of sentience? the ability to adapt to one's environment to protect itself from eradication? a survival instinct?

A survival instinct or someone behind the virus, one who programs it to survive eradication by the several layers of immunity in human & animal bodies?

I posit viruses are destructive agents, their purpose is destructive, though like weapons the destruction can also be marshalled for good, but that's not their main purpose.
God says we will learn more about how His Universe works, this includes also His instruments of Wrath.

All ingredients in the Universe aren't our own, we use them for good or bad, including viruses, bacteria, fungi, pathogens & instruments of life & death...
this means it's perfectly feasible theologically viruses be used by Satan & his followers for destruction, like for Job.

All ingredients in the Universe aren't our own, we use them for good or bad, including viruses, bacteria, fungi, pathogens & instruments of life & death...
this means it's perfectly feasible theologically viruses be used by Satan & his followers for destruction, like for Job.

God allowed Satan to use illness agents to attack Job's body & afflict him, as God allows illness agents to afflict hypocrites perchance to bring down humility in them so they repent...

Here comes my posit, most humans today are hypocrites & wrongdoers, why Satan has so much power, including unleashing illnesses of the kinds we've never seen such as #COVID19 & beforehand #AIDS #HIV.
The more we stray from G-d, the more power we give to evil agencies to hurt us.

Another prominent verse justifying what I say is of Abraham asking God for Mercy & relief, on the subject of illness/disease, curiously, he took responsibility, precisely saying "and if I fall ill, He's the one who will heal".
Ponder the turn of phrase, not if "He makes me ill".

Monstrous diseases such as #AIDS & #COVID19 are unleashed because we allow Satan into our lives more than we allow G-d/Allah/Yahweh, we are responsible as groups for straying from our Godly purpose.

I also posted this thread on my @facebook nabilh2000 account.

Allah/Hashem can of course eliminate all scourges of humanity, be they viruses, resistant strained bacteria, yeast pathogens, autoimmune, cancer, any dis-ease, but are we worthy? are we fulfilling our purpose which he made us for, which is to worship him alone?

Still as a Believer, despite all the evil I have committed & I am witness to in my other fellow humans, I keep turning back to Allah asking for His Mercy from the Wrath that descend on those among us who refuse guidance & repentance & whom we are being punished with -

I believe natural remedies through herbalism, homeopathy, naturopathy & orthomolecular medicine are a Sign of Mercy from Allah to Mankind which help by God's Leave to alleviate suffering of humans, believers & unbelievers, and Allah can heal any affliction.

May Allah The Healer / Al Shafee save us from His Wrath with His Mercy.
Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: Abdun Nur on June 09, 2021, 11:05:50 PM
The medical model, presently suffered was created by Rockefella around 140 years ago to create a medical monopoly, this monopoly functions as a mafia, and is based not on science but frauds. It fuctions as a disease generation and symptom suppression model, which is why disease is so common in the present age.

The lie of germ theory, one germ equals one disease, is the bed rock of modern medicine, and is utterly wrong, but is ideal to use as the basis of a medical monopoly.

Viruses are a construct, which is why for example no one has ever managed to isolate the covid 19 virus, to create the fiction of a virus the medical quackery take some detritus and then use computer software to built their virus construct.

The media use pictures of exposures and pretend they are pictures of a virus.

The way to determine if people are dying from something new, is to examine the average global death rates, if they have increased then you have something new causing a higher death rate, presently the averages remain normal.

Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: amin on June 10, 2021, 05:53:40 AM
Nature has its own cleaning process, the controlling forces of nature does these to help us live in this planet,

These viruses infecting us I think, are result of our greedy actions, that's caused by the increased pollution to the controlling elements of nature. Also now the truths and mistakes done are hidden forcefully by some section of people who control the world.
Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: theNabster on June 14, 2021, 07:55:08 AM
Our knowledge is limited by our senses & their extension,
the instruments we devised, those foolish enough, & they are the majority, mistake the maps & what their instruments record for the territory & its reality.
Allah says that we know one aspect of reality, but most of it is hidden from us, he also says that the hereafter is the true reality.
Models are useful, but not an end, making them all that there is to be is in fact idolatry by stealth.
So yes to some extent I agree with you Abdun Nur, but this does not fully invalidate the virus & germs theory, it only says it is incomplete.
It can be improved with orthomolecular medicine, homeopathy, & faith.
After all The Healer, Al Shafee is the One who makes healing possible. Allah Al Shafee.
Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: tutti_frutti on June 15, 2021, 11:45:58 AM

i do not think the devil makes people physically sick

only The God can do that and only He can cure

in the verses with job, i dont think the word “sickness” or “illness” is used, and The God is very precise in His words i believe

i might be wrong of course

Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: theNabster on June 16, 2021, 07:32:32 AM
Peace & Harmony from Allah @tutti_frutti
Look up Ibrahim's prayer where he bears responsibility for being sick & ask Allah for relief/shifa'a.
If we are responsible for our illnesses, surely Satan can be responsible too, if you think about biological weapons human devils can make, so can Satan, etc.
Fate / destiny has good & evil all coming from Allah, in either He allows evil or stops it from occurring.
Remember also where Allah says what is good is from Allah & what is evil is from you with that your hands have wrought.
I have no doubt also that Jinn have the technology, as we do, to inflict good & evil.
They contain our realm, they are in a realm which contains ours.
& also as you say Allah knows best.
Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on June 18, 2021, 11:22:38 PM
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

When talking about something as small as viruses, AQ 2:26 comes to mind:

2:26 God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say: "What does God intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.

The fire that warms us can also burn us; the fire is neither good nor bad but we attempt to qualify it as such. People fuss if there is no rain, and people fuss if there is too much rain--one can blame it on the rain, but the rain simply follows the physical laws established by the Almighty. Neither fire nor rain nor viruses have a brain or a conscience.

Evolution favors not the strongest, but the most adaptive. By this time, anything incapable of adapting will soon cease to thrive and eventually perish.

Viruses are not without benefits. Here is one scholarly article that addresses this:

Whether the most advanced medicine or homeopathic, there is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't. ISA, one day we will make nanomachines that will stay inside the body and prevent illness, disease, and damage to the body. This will bring about other problems such as overcrowding, of course.

7:32 Say: "Who has made forbidden the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

9:91 There is no blame to be placed upon the weak, or the sick, or those who do not find anything to spend on, if they are sincere towards God and His messenger. There is no argument against the good doers; and God is Forgiving, Merciful.

26:80 "And if I am sick, He is the One who cures me."

39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

48:17 There is no burden on the blind, nor is there any burden on the cripple, nor is there any burden on the sick. And whoever obeys God and His messenger, He will admit them into gardens with rivers flowing beneath them; and whoever turns away, He will punish him with a painful retribution.

There is nothing great about being sick, but it isn't a punishment. If we are provided with nice things like modern medicine, we should use it. We should consider the best of what scientists and doctors have to say.

ALLAH knows best.

May ALLAH see fit to guide all seekers.



Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: theNabster on June 19, 2021, 02:55:32 PM
Peace Abdul-Hadi
Viruses are just a fragment of proteins organised as a bundle of instructions for cells to execute, they are on the borderline of life, on their own they are not alive.
These agents can indeed be marshalled to help against disease, but their main function is inherently destructive, this is why I consider them agents of Wrath for Allah.

We get tested with good & bad, it is all a test. That's what we need to understand. This is a mortal world.

We live in a mortal world where entropy (disorder) will ultimately unravel to destroy everything we know & rely on including causality itself.

Some like scientists devote their lives to analyse & understand the patterns, what matters to me as an ex Scientist is no longer to just understand.
I ended up, rightly, realising that what matters is Allah & we have been blessed as humans to not need to call upon anyone but Him for forgiveness, succour, help, comfort & the greatest gift of all gifts: salvation.
Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: tutti_frutti on June 19, 2021, 03:19:53 PM
peace thenabster, may The God please bless you

thank you for your reply

perhaps you are right especially that job was told to go to a place of water (maybe to cure a sickness)

i still think that sickness and cure are both from The God

remember also we are told in chapter 14 that the devil will say on judgement day that he had bo power over the disbelievers except that he call to them and they responded

we are also told about that the devil has no power over the believers

we are also told that the disbelievers call on what does not benefit them nor harm them (i bekieve hose in question are the djinn, whom disbelievers set up as partners)

Title: Re: Viruses in theology of Qur'an
Post by: theNabster on June 19, 2021, 09:42:09 PM
Peace & Harmony from Allah @tutti_frutti

We keep learning & we are challenged by Allah thus:

41:53 We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (Qur'an) is the truth.