Free Minds

General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: centi50 on April 28, 2021, 12:20:28 AM

Title: Chapter 4:3
Post by: centi50 on April 28, 2021, 12:20:28 AM
I was discussing with someone. He told my polygamy is allowed in Islam. He quoted 4:3 and some verses. To me I don't see 4:3 as allowing polygamy. If we put other verses in i.e with 24:32 which says marry the singles

And verse 4:29 God tells us we can never be fair to wives.

Which means according to me one wife one man


The thing is he quoted the following verse to claim polygamy is allowed

22 times the word wives came in Quran which is a direct hint of polygamy.


2:226  For those who abstain from their wives, they shall be given four months. If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

2:234  And those of you whose lives are terminated, and they leave wives behind, they will have a required interim period of four months and ten. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do with themselves in goodness. And God is Expert to what you do.

4:12  And for you is half from your wives of what is left behind, if they have no child;

9:24  Say: “If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kin, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would be concerned over its decline

33:37 ..........We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

60:10 .......And do not keep disbelieving wives, and ask back what dowries you paid. And let them ask back what dowries they had paid. Such is the judgment of God; He judges between you. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.


60:11  And if any of your wives have gone over to the camp of the rejecters, and you are granted victory over them, then you shall compensate those whose wives have gone over, to the equivalent of what dowry they spent. And be aware of God, in whom you believe.

If Allah liked monogamy he would have said your wife instead of your wives in the above ayay.

Understand the essence of Quran.

Any one can comment please about the Ayat he quoted to support polygamy in islam

God bless you all
Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: Wakas on April 28, 2021, 01:12:54 AM
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=31
Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: centi50 on April 28, 2021, 04:01:30 AM
How do you explain 24:42

Replacing a wife with another

HOW do you explain the below verses
As a claim meaning the plural of wife, hence its allowed for men to have multiple of wives. I am not a language specialist. Please explain to me, how I can counter those verses


2:226  For those who abstain from their wives, they shall be given four months. If they cease, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

2:234  And those of you whose lives are terminated, and they leave wives behind, they will have a required interim period of four months and ten. So when they reach their required interim, then there is no sin upon you for what they do with themselves in goodness. And God is Expert to what you do.

4:12  And for you is half from your wives of what is left behind, if they have no child;

9:24  Say: “If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kin, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would be concerned over its decline

33:37 ..........We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

60:10 .......And do not keep disbelieving wives, and ask back what dowries you paid. And let them ask back what dowries they had paid. Such is the judgment of God; He judges between you. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.


60:11  And if any of your wives have gone over to the camp of the rejecters, and you are granted victory over them, then you shall compensate those whose wives have gone over, to the equivalent of what dowry they spent. And be aware of God, in whom you believe.

If Allah liked monogamy he would have said your wife instead of your wives in the above ayay.

I want to reply to a friend about the verses. He believes those verses a warrant for polygamy

God bless you all

https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=31
Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 28, 2021, 01:28:41 PM
If Allah liked monogamy he would have said your wife instead of your wives

سلم salam/peace علىك alayka/upon you (sing.) -- ending with "ka" address to person
English no distinction if "you" is to f, m, sing, dual, or plural ending with "kum" 3+

19:47 سلم salam/peace علىك alayka/upon you (sing.)
6:54 سلم salam/peace علىكم alaykum/upon you (pl.)


4:12 ولكم walakum/and for you (pl.) نصف half ما ma/what ترك left ازوجكم azwājukum/spouses yours (pl.)
4:12 ولهن walahunna/and for them (pl.) الربع the fourth مما mimma/from what تركتم taraktum/left you (pl.)


2:226 نساىهم nisaihim/womenfolk theirs (pl.)
2:234 فلا so not جنح guilt علىكم alaykum/upon you (pl.)

9:24 وازوجكم wa-azwājukum/and spouses yours (pl.)
33:37 ادعىىهم adiyaihim/adopted sons theirs (pl.)

60:10 ولا and not جنح guilt علىكم alaykum/upon you (pl.)
60:11 ازوجكم azwājikum/spouses yours (pl.)
Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: tlihawa on April 28, 2021, 09:06:58 PM

I want to reply to a friend about the verses. He believes those verses a warrant for polygamy

God bless you all

Salaam centi50,
in my head opinion, there's nothing wrong with God allow us to do polygamy.

But this is not something easy and not everyone wants to do it. May I say this is a last resort for fair dealing with the female orphans who are under your care.

Let me elaborate further,

If you are a caretaker of the orphans then you SHOULD NOT,

4:2   And give the orphans their money; and do not substitute the rotten for the good, and do not consume their money to your money; for truly it is a great sin!

Do not consume their money, but if they are kind of mentally retarded, you should take care of their money management,

4:5 And do not give the foolish ones <has limited understanding> your money for which God has made you overseers, and spend on them from it and clothe them, and speak to them in goodness.

Then if they grow up, you should do the test,

4:6 And test the orphans when they reach the age of marriage, then, if you have determined from them comprehension, then give them their money, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly before they grow up. And whoever is rich, then let him not claim anything, and if he is poor then let him consume in kindness. If you give to them their money, then make a witness for them, and God is enough for Reckoning.

So now, how do we deal with the female orphan that already reach the age of the marriage but they are kind of mentally retarded? Most likely nobody else want to marry them.

This is a dilemma situation.

We cannot continue to be caretakers of female orphans who have become adult women and we have to hand over their assets to them. But on the one hand we are also worried about giving away their property because of their mental condition.

So God explained to us,

4:127 They ask you for divine instruction concerning women. Say, "God instructs you regarding them, as has been recited for you in the book about the women orphans to whom you don't give them what is ordained for them and you desire to marry them, as well as the powerless children, and your duty to treat orphans with justice <bil qisti>. Whatever good you do, God has full knowledge of it.


The only reason you're not give them their money is because they are mentally retarded or has limited understanding. So the solution here is to marry them,

4:3 And if you fear that you will not be able to do justice <tuq'situ> with the orphans, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women: two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair <ta'dilu>, then only one, or whom you are committed to by your oath. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.

So the first justice word, using qaf-sin-ta, <tuqsitu and bil qisti> is the justice between you and the woman orphans, not to consume their money illegally, this is about money management.

And the second justice word (fair), using ayn-dal-lam is the justice between the orphans that you want to marry, this one is related to relationship in marriage that you want to do with the orphans.

In a situation like this, I think polygamy is not something that is expected to happen, but rather a solution how to do justice to female orphans who have grown up but have mental or psychological problems, and they need us to survive.

So if someone wants to do polygamy, then the questions will be,
1. Do you run orphanage?
2. Are there any adult female orphans who has mental problems?
3. Is there anyone else who wants to marry them?

If the answers are yes-yes-no, then go ahead. They are your ma malakat aymanukum.

Peace
Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: reel on April 28, 2021, 09:27:46 PM
Use his "rationality" to reread the verses.

Quote
9:24  Say: “If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kin, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would be concerned over its decline

The guy can also have multiple fathers.

Quote
33:37 ..........We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

Believers and wives mentioned together. Confirms the women (wives) can practise polygamy.


Title: Re: Chapter 4:3
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 30, 2021, 01:33:17 AM
Do not consume their money, but if they are kind of mentally retarded ...

4:5 And do not give the foolish ones <has limited understanding>
...
So now, how do we deal with the female orphan that already reach the age of the marriage but they are kind of mentally retarded? Most likely nobody else want to marry them.

This is a dilemma situation.

We cannot continue to be caretakers of female orphans who have become adult women and we have to hand over their assets to them. But on the one hand we are also worried about giving away their property because of their mental condition.
...

4:127 They ask you for divine instruction concerning women...

The only reason you're not give them their money is because they are mentally retarded or has limited understanding. So the solution here is to marry them,

peace, general statement applies to either gender being able to manage money.

2:13 ... الا unquestionably انهم indeed they هم themselves السفها the foolish ولكن and however لا not ىعلمون knowing

4:5 ولا and not توتوا give السفها the foolish امولكم wealth yours التى the one جعل made الله the god لكم for you قىما provision of وارزقوهم and provisions ye them (masc. pl. boys, girls, their mothers) فىها with it واكسوهم and clothe ye them وقولوا and speak ye of لهم for them قولا speech of معروفا respectable of

4:127 وىستفتونك and decision seeking they your فى in النسا the womenfolk قل say الله the god ىفتىكم giveth ruling you فىهن in them وما and what ىتلى recited is علىكم upon you فى in الكتب the book فى in ىتمى yatama/bereaved النسا l-nisai/the womenfolk التى the ones

لا not توتونهن thou gives them ما what كتب written لهن for them (i.e. their inheritance)

وترغبون and thou hoping ان that تنكحوهن thou marry ye them (when reached age of marriage)

والمستضعفىن and those vulnerable they من of الولدن the youngsters (after their inheritance too) ...