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General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: aqua on December 30, 2019, 05:22:56 PM

Title: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: aqua on December 30, 2019, 05:22:56 PM
Peace everyone,

I've made this video on the use of religious labels. Please share it if possible:

https://youtu.be/5e--gIzrFxA

Happy new year to all.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: Jafar on December 31, 2019, 12:46:50 AM
Nice video  :bravo:

Everyone (and everything) emanated from the same infinite source and shall return to the same source, the path that each shall took to return might be different.

An identity is required for the ego to differentiate between those who are among 'them' and those who are among 'us'. There are many identities, as ego can attach and identify itself towards anything, among those identities are 'religion','cult' and 'sect'.

Yet identity; just like ego; is merely an illusion..

In the end 'them' actually do not exist, everyone and everything are actually among us.

Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: aqua on December 31, 2019, 06:10:09 PM
That's true. Unfortunately, the identities often lead to a mentality which harbours enmity or hatred.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: javed1 on January 01, 2020, 11:11:22 AM
Peace
Is not 'Muslim' a label sanctioned by the quran.Do you believe quran to be  Divine scripture?
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: aqua on January 01, 2020, 04:10:31 PM
'Muslim' is an Arabic word which in the Qur'an is meant in the literal/descriptive sense of 'one who has submitted/surrendered to God'. It is never intended as a static label of identification in a foreign language as it is used today.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: good logic on January 02, 2020, 02:58:09 AM
Peace javed1.

The question that needsto be asked is: What is a "Muslim", according to Qoran:
2:130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
وَمَن يَرغَبُ عَن مِلَّةِ إِبرٰهـۧمَ إِلّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصطَفَينٰهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَإِنَّهُ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصّٰلِحينَ
2:131
When his Lord said to him, "Submit," he said, "I submit to the Lord of the universe."
إِذ قالَ لَهُ رَبُّهُ أَسلِم قالَ أَسلَمتُ لِرَبِّ العٰلَمينَ

Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: Jafar on January 02, 2020, 03:27:41 AM
That's true. Unfortunately, the identities often lead to a mentality which harbours enmity or hatred.

There are those who enjoy pride, being feared, superiority, enmity and hatred.
As such anything will be used for the above.
But they're still among us that need to be accepted.

'Muslim' is an Arabic word which in the Qur'an is meant in the literal/descriptive sense of 'one who has submitted/surrendered to God'. It is never intended as a static label of identification in a foreign language as it is used today.

True, muslim is a character, from the root slm which means peace.
inner peace can only be attained through acceptance.

Abraham, Jesus, Jesus's disciples / companion were verbosely mentioned as muslim.
All of the above never read Quran, proclaim shahada, pilgrimage to mecca or declare themselves to be a "Muslim" as an identity.



Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: hawk99 on January 03, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
Has anyone besides me ever wondered why the words
Muslim and Islam are left untranslated in some instances   :hmm
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: Jafar on January 04, 2020, 12:04:30 AM
Has anyone besides me ever wondered why the words
Muslim and Islam are left untranslated in some instances   :hmm

Because the author / translator thinks that "Muslim" and "Islam" are indeed "Identity".
In the same manner as Allah are left untranslated, it's yet another persona / identity.

Yet translating the words might cause issues as well. a good case study for this happened with Jesus story / Gospel. Translated into greek and then latin and then english we found weird words such as "Son of Man", "Father in Heaven", "Son Of God".

Greek, Latin and English language were forged within natively pagan tradition, well so does Arabic language for that matter. The paganistic people see that God as if it is a human king and there are many of them, each God fighting other Gods, hating each others and often at war with each others in an effort of trying to be an ultimate superior God. The God of all the Gods.

Each God then recruited human as followers by creating a religion, and the God get angry if He lose a followers especially if the human joining other religion of other rivaling Gods. As thus such deed is declared as "unforgiven sin" the punishment is death. Such punishment is necessary to strike fear into the heart of the God's followers thus nobody dare to leave His religion and join other rivaling God's religion.

Back to the case study of Jesus story.
Encountering "Son Of God" and "Father", the conception of pagans / polytheists is a human like deity who had a descendant thus also another God called the son of that God called the Father. Well then there's two God already, the God and his son which also a God, no longer one.. Just like Zeus and Hercules..

The confusion of introducing monotheism to natively polytheist society is many converted polytheist  still view "God" with polytheist lenses, the lenses which they're familiar with, the lenses and mindset on which the language being forged . They don't understand on WHY there could only be ONE God in the first place.

They believe that there is only ONE God just because God said so.
And if they don't believe that there is only one God, that God will be angry and will punish them.
Just like the good ol' polytheistic Gods used to do....
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: hawk99 on January 08, 2020, 12:34:58 PM
Peace javed1.

The question that needsto be asked is: What is a "Muslim", according to Qoran:
2:130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
وَمَن يَرغَبُ عَن مِلَّةِ إِبرٰهـۧمَ إِلّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصطَفَينٰهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَإِنَّهُ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصّٰلِحينَ
2:131
When his Lord said to him, "Submit," he said, "I submit to the Lord of the universe."
إِذ قالَ لَهُ رَبُّهُ أَسلِم قالَ أَسلَمتُ لِرَبِّ العٰلَمينَ

It may be said that many people around the world would qualify as SLM.

 Siin-Lam-Miim = safety/security/freedom/immunity, to escape, salutation/greeting/peace,
deliver/acknowledge, pay in advance, submit, sincerity, humility,
submission/conformance/obedience, resign/quit/relinquish, to be in sound condition,
well without blemish, gentle/tender/soft/elegant. Solomon/Sulaiman.

                                                          :peace:
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: Jafar on January 10, 2020, 11:20:26 PM
Here's from the materials which often associated with religions who are in rivals or considered as enemy to the religion / identity of Islam.

"One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme Lord, is unaffected by sinful action, as the lotus is untouched by muddy water."
-- Bhagavad Gita 5.10:

"Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Let your kingdom come. Let your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
-- Matt 6:9

FAQ

Q: Is islam the attitude (a.k.a acceptance, no attachment) only recommended in the Quran?
A: No

Q: Is Quran the first book which recommends islam the attitude.
A: No, there are many scrolls and tablets which teaches similar message many centuries before the Quran.

Q: Is Quran the last / latest / final book which recommends islam the attitude.
A: No. there are many today's self help books which recommends acceptance and no attachment. The same message continuously appearing throughout the ages through myriad of media and channel. Now the message also sprung up from online video.

Q: Is Quran superior compared to other books?
A: No

Q: Then how can we be superior to others if our books is not superior to others?
A: You better rethink of your need of feeling and becoming superior compared to others.

Q: Or at least gives us something that can be used to make us special compared to others.
A: You are as special as every body else or as everything else.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: good logic on January 11, 2020, 01:11:12 PM
Peace jafar.
I will try and expand on what you are saying here, quote:

Q: Is islam the attitude (a.k.a acceptance, no attachment) only recommended in the Quran?
A: No

Qoran says that anyway. No one who studies Qoran is saying yes are they?

Q: Is Quran the first book which recommends islam the attitude.
A: No, there are many scrolls and tablets which teaches similar message many centuries before the Quran.

Also Qoran clarifies this by saying all messengers came/will come with this Islam. So who is disagreeing?

Q: Is Quran the last / latest / final book which recommends islam the attitude.
A: No. there are many today's self help books which recommends acceptance and no attachment. The same message continuously appearing throughout the ages through myriad of media and channel. Now the message also sprung up from online video.

Qoran is the latest and last  scripture from GOD. If any latest books are saying this, then they are men s books who agree with Qoran.
Remember Islam the attitude and GOD go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other.

Q: Is Quran superior compared to other books?
A: No

Qoran is from GOD. Scriptures from GOD are GOD s words. Other books from men are not comparable. You cannot compare GOD s books and men s books.  Men s books are comparable, there are good ones and bad ones. GOD s books are consistent, always  truthful and  with a clear purpose and objectives for mankind.

Q: Then how can we be superior to others if our books is not superior to others?
A: You better rethink of your need of feeling and becoming superior compared to others.

GOD s scipture instructs us to be humble. There is no such a thing as any human being superior in reality. Only GOD is superior.

Q: Or at least gives us something that can be used to make us special compared to others.
A: You are as special as every body else or as everything else.

GOD gave all that is necessary for redemption of mankind. GOD gives and GOD takes away. Nobody can give "what makes special" to anyone. Each individual works for their own soul and gets what they deserve at the end. Not a question of giving, a question of earning.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: Jafar on January 13, 2020, 06:29:08 AM

Q: Is Quran the last / latest / final book which recommends islam the attitude.
A: No. there are many today's self help books which recommends acceptance and no attachment. The same message continuously appearing throughout the ages through myriad of media and channel. Now the message also sprung up from online video.

Qoran is the latest and last  scripture from GOD. If any latest books are saying this, then they are men s books who agree with Qoran.
Remember Islam the attitude and GOD go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other.

So there's a duality of "Men's books" vs "God's books"?
Aren't God also in full control of Men?

God created everything isn't he? or is he not?
God created everything EXCEPT men's books? 

Quote
Q: Is Quran superior compared to other books?
A: No

Qoran is from GOD. Scriptures from GOD are GOD s words. Other books from men are not comparable. You cannot compare GOD s books and men s books.  Men s books are comparable, there are good ones and bad ones. GOD s books are consistent, always  truthful and  with a clear purpose and objectives for mankind.

Thus this book titled Quran is superior compared to other books?

Quote
GOD gave all that is necessary for redemption of mankind.

Redemption from what?
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: good logic on January 13, 2020, 11:09:36 AM
Peace jafar.
You say, quote:
So there's a duality of "Men's books" vs "God's books"?
Aren't God also in full control of Men?

There is a difference of "knowledge" between God s words and men s words. Men write good and bad books( like Science and pornography) . GOD s words are consistent  from His perfect knowledge.

You say, quote:
Thus this book titled Quran is superior compared to other books?

All scripture  from GOD is consistently the same.You are supposed to study its contents first and foremost. A message to you and me, Not a question of comparison but of accepting or refusing  the message.

.You say, quote:
Redemption from what?

So GOD has just created you a human without a reason? Why did GOD not create you an animal or another creature?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: hawk99 on January 13, 2020, 03:02:10 PM
I know many good people who because of the non translated words of
"Muslim" "Islam" and Allah do not get counted among us submitters.
The translators have done a disservice to mankind knowingly or unknowingly.


                                                :peace:
Title: Re: The Masked Labels - Video on the use of religious labels
Post by: aqua on February 15, 2020, 04:26:20 AM
I know many good people who because of the non translated words of
"Muslim" "Islam" and Allah do not get counted among us submitters.
The translators have done a disservice to mankind knowingly or unknowingly.

It is often overlooked that these are non-English words at all. English is a fully capable language, so it's not necessary to use Arabic replacements in English sentences.