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General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: Sarah on November 29, 2019, 07:43:35 PM

Title: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Sarah on November 29, 2019, 07:43:35 PM
weren't born into it and looked at the Qur'an without hadith objectively?

For example, I wasn't born into Christianity. What they believe in seems silly to me. When I look at it objectively I would never become a Christian and I do not fear the Christian Hell at all.


Peace
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Jafar on November 29, 2019, 08:37:38 PM
I was born a Muslim and I think what we believe seems silly to me.
If I wasn't born a Muslim I will not be appealed to it's teachings.

Similar to Christianity the entire religion of Islam tries to control it's followers through FEAR; and stressed the importance of loyalty to religion, defending and fighting for the religion; after a study to it's history I then understand why, both religion was invented by an empire to build and extend the empire.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on November 29, 2019, 10:49:46 PM
Peace Sarah,

Really good question.

We are born into different religious and cultural background. We are given respective knowledge about religion from our families when we are kids. We don't have any control over it. But what we all have in common is our God given ability to think, reason and question those religious teachings and  dogma and try to find find the truth. If I look back and think about childhood I still can remember lots of silly stories I heard from people regarding religion. Some people decides not to use the reasoning and follow the bandwagon blindly.

However The word Islam simply means submission. Anyone irrespective of his/her background can submit to God Alone by coming to the realization that God Alone has all the power. This realization and submission does not require any religious teaching from anyone or any messenger or any scripture. The only thing we need is to think/reason rationally.

 According to the Qur'an, the ability to perceive the existence of the Supreme Power is inborn in human nature (fitrah); and it is this instinctive cognition-which may or may not be subsequently blurred by self-indulgence or adverse environmental influences - that makes every sane human being "bear witness about himself" before God.

http://quranix.org/7#172
7:172 And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.

So as per the above verse probably we are all born Muslim since we have testified by accepting God as our lord.

http://quranix.org/30#30
The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
30:30 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.
Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
30:30 AND SO, set thy face steadfastly towards the [one ever-true] faith, turning away from all that is false, in accordance with the natural disposition which God has instilled into man: [for,] not to allow any change to corrupt what God has thus created this is the [purpose of the one] ever-true faith; but most people know it not.

The term fitrah in the verse 30:30 means "natural disposition/inclination", connotes in this context man's inborn, intuitive ability to discern between right and wrong, true and false, and, thus, to sense God's existence and oneness.
http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(30:30:5)
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: good logic on November 30, 2019, 02:03:23 PM
Peace Sarah.
Do you mean born a "Traditional Muslim" the religion? That is just like any other religion irrelevant to being "Muslim to GOD"

All people are born as children, they may inherit a religion,and their religion may restrict them to its following but no one is born a "Muslim" as in the state of mind to GOD. everyone ,regardless of religion is born with the potential to become a "Muslim".
And there lies  the biggest misconception of our generation.. , Still the majority are not aware of the difference since "Traditional Islam" has hijacked and named  GOD s one and only religion as their own containing their own books.

I hope you see the irrelevance of that question.
GOD bless you.
Peace..
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Sarah on November 30, 2019, 03:20:02 PM
Peace Good Logic,

No, I meant 'If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you weren't born into it and looked at the Qur'an without hadith objectively?' Traditional Muslims also view hadith.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: good logic on December 01, 2019, 03:04:57 AM
What I meant is that nobody is born a Muslim.in the true sense of the word. One becomes a Muslim through his/her chosen way of life after he/she grows up and reaches the age of accountability/maturity/...
That is how the test pans out.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Jafar on December 01, 2019, 03:48:29 AM
@Sarah
You need to clarify by what you mean by Muslim.

My answer above is valid if and only if for the definition of Muslim = A member of the religion of Islam.
Which I was born into, with both parent also members of the religion of Islam.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Layth on December 01, 2019, 05:20:10 AM
Salam Sarah.

I think people find God if they are truly searching for him (Abraham was amongst idol worshipers and found God) .

Our backgrounds are irrelevant...Many here have come from Sunni/Shia/Christian/etc. upbringings.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Mohammed. on December 03, 2019, 09:39:08 AM
salaam Sarah,

Your question is almost similar to these type of questions;
“Why some born in rich family and why others in poor background?”, “why some born with diseases/defects, why others not?” etc.

(It might have some reason/purpose at God, since He let things happen so)

Likewise, some born in traditional Muslim community, others in Christianity/Hinduism/Judaism etc.

And it’s a well known fact in the world that, Qur’an is the last known Book/guidance in the name of the creator/ Lord of the worlds. Hence, any sincere truth seeker born in any religion/tribe will check its genuineness if he found any problems in his guidance (what he follows by birth).
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Jafar on December 06, 2019, 01:07:14 PM
And it’s a well known fact in the world that, Qur’an is the last known Book/guidance in the name of the creator/ Lord of the worlds.

It's a propagandized dogma that Quran is the last and/or only guidance from the creator and/or was not authored by creatures.

The fact is revelation and guidance never stopped and always available through trillion of channels / media / languages / symbolism / means. Always available to those who asked and ponder.
Any sincere truth seeker will eventually realized this.

Abraham never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus companions never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")

Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: jkhan on December 06, 2019, 08:24:11 PM
It's a propagandized dogma that Quran is the last and/or only guidance from the creator and/or was not authored by creatures.

The fact is revelation and guidance never stopped and always available through trillion of channels / media / languages / symbolism / means. Always available to those who asked and ponder.
Any sincere truth seeker will eventually realized this.

Abraham never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")
Jesus companions never read the quran but he was refered as a muslim (without the capital "I")

Peace Jafar...

3rd paragraph... How do you say this with apt knowledge that Ibrahim and Isa etc without the support of  book/s...to say this you should have read at least quran... So you accept it and claim so... Isn't... To claim it so and indirectly negate quran is thought to be propagandized dogma from God and not in fact is contrary to what you say...

Your second paragraph is well known...  Whatever around us will make us observe and learn and if we are good enough  we would get guided but God willed.. But revelation in spoken form is no more... (through messenger prophet no more)

Your first paragraph is depending on who says so... Quran is of course seal of direct messages coming to a messenger  and then he delivers... That's one of the ways God talks to human... That's no more after Quran... If you accept Quran though... But guidance will keep flowing eversince believers are around on this earth... Everything God created is a sign and if we apply thought to it then guidance is in it...

Personally asking... Are you in serious doubt of God and His book... Are you someone who has already left the Deen of God and free from all these?
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: Jafar on December 07, 2019, 09:25:50 PM
3rd paragraph... How do you say this with apt knowledge that Ibrahim and Isa etc without the support of  book/s...


The form of media during the time of Abe, was a cuneiform on a clay tablet.
Much of the material being written are either business transactions, king's decree and propaganda or hymn and ritual to Mesopotamian Gods and Godesses.

A mesopotamian king actually was among the first who invented this concept of "Writings written and from The Gods".
I've described it here: https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610198.0

The goal is similar: To obtain control over a populace through FEAR.

Abe seems to get his "revelations" through observation.
He was born within a family of "Idols Inventor", his dad created idols and myths associated to it in exchange for money.
He witnessed through his own physical senses how his dad created idols and myths associated to it.

Basically it will be no brainer to deduce that "my own dad is a fraud, he's fooling people".

Jesus, born within a humble family, dad a solemn carpenter and mom coming from religious elite background (Tribe of Aaroon). Exposed to Torah since he was a child, and he asked difficult questions and debated his own rabbis.
It's not too described how he got the revelations, but it was recorded that he was missing from some years, and appeared already 30 years old and starting his own preaching works.

The preaching content is quite 'alien' to the society.. I can say that Mr Jesus taught Zen Buddhism with mixture of Judaism in his preaching.  But definitely strayed away from the Torah and Talmud. Long story short; his preaching puts him at odds with religious elite of his place and time.

Alas.. the common populace seems to like his preaching, his popularity grows as time progress, this turn Mr Jesus and co from merely a nuissance into a THREAT. A threat to the religious elite to lose control over the populace.

With goal to maintaining control, Jesus and co need to be "dealt with".
In an effort silence him he was punished by death because he violated the Torah's law (Sabbath law).

But... if he was punished by the religious elite, the populace will revolt and control will be lost.
The religious elite devised a clever scheme, Jesus will be punished by the Romans.
Thus even when the populace revolt they will revolt towards the Romans.
Even when this happened, the Romans will lose control over the populace and the religious elite will grow it's power of control over the populace.

Quote
Your second paragraph is well known...  Whatever around us will make us observe and learn and if we are good enough  we would get guided but God willed.. But revelation in spoken form is no more... (through messenger prophet no more)

I don't think so.. revelation never ends...

Quote
Are you someone who has already left the Deen of God and free from all these?

Ancient polytheistic people has many gods.
Each god created their own religion with specific temple, priests as mediator, rituals to be performed lead by the priest, and holy artifacts (scrolls are among those holy artifacts).

Those gods are competing with each others both for followers and also power.
More often those gods are in war with each others, where each of their followers met on a battlefield and killed the follower of competing gods, to prove that their gods are more powerful and truest gods.

Thus god's power are in correlation to the power of his/her followers.
As thus those who dare to left a religion must be PUNISHED, because they've performed an act of treason against a specific god. If such action left unpunished the gods will be angry and the gods will PUNISH those who remained within the religion.

Those are the background on how this concept of "leaving God's religion" came to be.
It only make sense if one is still using or stuck to the old polytheistic concept.
Title: Re: If you were born a Muslim, do you think you would be Muslim today if you...
Post by: almarh0m on December 08, 2019, 07:02:25 AM
weren't born into it and looked at the Qur'an without hadith objectively?

For example, I wasn't born into Christianity. What they believe in seems silly to me. When I look at it objectively I would never become a Christian and I do not fear the Christian Hell at all.


Peace

Salam

If you had read al Qur'an 3/83, would you still be asking this question?

Salam

almarh0m