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Community Needs => Off-Topic => Topic started by: zakir on October 29, 2019, 10:25:25 AM

Title: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 29, 2019, 10:25:25 AM
A Muslim scholar and Imam named C.J Ahmed has given a fatwa that watching porn is halal in Islam. He has said this in this website https://cjislam.weebly.com/ (https://cjislam.weebly.com/). According to him, the principle of the shariah is that anything that is forbidden is halal under a necessity and watching porn is halal under a necessity. You can read the full fatwa by clicking this link https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html) or if you cannot click the link, please copy paste the url to read the full fatwa. Now, my question is, is this true?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 29, 2019, 11:34:29 PM
A Muslim scholar and Imam named C.J Ahmed has given a fatwa that watching porn is halal in Islam. He has said this in this website https://cjislam.weebly.com/ (https://cjislam.weebly.com/). According to him, the principle of the shariah is that anything that is forbidden is halal under a necessity and watching porn is halal under a necessity. You can read the full fatwa by clicking this link https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html) or if you cannot click the link, please copy paste the url to read the full fatwa. Now, my question is, is this true?

One of the Imams says… it’s totally in your hand whether to accept imam or neglect.. what is pornography ?... needless to elaborate … right? But what is happening in pornography is not acting merely but actual happenings… it means they do whatever shown in them.. So ask the Imam to recruit some to do such pornography so that it would be available for the people to watch since it is halal as he claim.. let him be witness to what they do while shooting…or let him make his own pornography .. can a pornography be shot without deviating from quran principles…

I wonder those have logic or intentionally corrupting the moral way..

did you just register to post this thread... anyhow.. no harm....
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 30, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
I wouldn't want to engage in an argument with my Muslims brothers on this but I doubt that jkhan has read the full article I had linked. Rather he has come up with using the easier way by throwing insults on a particular person with out first reading the article with an open mind. Let me quote an excerpt from what C.J Ahmed is saying. He says as follows,
"There is no doubt with regards to the forbiddence of watching real life porn. But what about when there are exceptions. This is where the confusion has gone out of control among muslims and half baked preachers have used this grey area to bombard lay muslims by instilling unwanted fear of being punished by Allah (swt) . If there are exceptions and there is a clear excuse, then even watching porn becomes halal. For an example if a muslim who knows that if he does not masturbate and ejaculate, or if a muslim who is finding hard to protect his gaze in public transport or he cannot reach his wife to have intercourse, if he knows that he could definitely fall in to zina porn can be viewed for the sake of a quick erection in aiding masturbation and hence this will help in the muslim protecting him/herself from falling in to zina. According to the shariah even the forbidden becomes halal due to necessity and if there is no transgression. Allah says in the Quran,

"And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
(6:119)

And
"He has only forbidden you carrion, blood, and swine, and that which has been consecrated to any other than Allah. But who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. For Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate." 
(2:173)
 
And again
“Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment”
(16:106)
The above verses clearly explains that things which are haram becomes halal for a necessity If there is no transgression. In this instance watching porn becomes a necessity and it cannot be regarded as transgression. There are many hadiths which proves that even major sins are halal when there is a necessity and this is the basic Asl (Principle). This was also the understanding of the Salaf.
"Narrated Anas (rali):
The Prophet (sal) allowed `Abdur-Rahman bin `Auf and Az-Zubair bin Al-`Awwam to wear silk because they were suffering from an itch" .
(Sahih Al Bukhari)
 
The Prophet (sal) said in a hadith narrated by Ibn Abbas (rali):
 "Allah has forgiven my nation for mistakes and forgetfulness, and what they are forced to do."
(Ibn Majah- Graded Sahih by Albani in Sahih Sunan Ibn Majah and narrated by Baihaqi and others and graded Hasan Sahih)
Let me mention another hadith to prove the point where watching porn is halal due to a necesity. The hadith is as follows:
‘A woman was brought to ‘Umar bin al Khattab May Allah be pleased with him who had been extremely thirsty, and had passed by a shepherd and asked him to give her something to drink; he had refused to give her something to drink unless she let him have his way with her. (Umar) consulted with the people as to whether he should have her stoned. ‘Ali May Allah be pleased with him said, ‘She was forced to do it, you should let her go.’ So he did so."
(Sunan Baihaqi-Uthenticated by Albani in Irwa al Ghaleel 7/341)

In the above hadith it is clear that when the women who had committed zina due to her thirst, Umar (Rali) never criticised her by saying "Are you going to die because of your thirst" or Umar (Rali) or Ali (Rali) never found fault with her for committing adultery to quench her thirst. This hadith clearly proves that if there is a reason of necessity then the haram becomes halal. The same can be said about watching porn."
(https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html))

I would like brother jkhan or anyone who is kowledgeable to give me a satisfying answer to this because this could cause fitnah.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: quincy on October 30, 2019, 12:46:26 AM
I would just suggest to think for yourself. The reasoning of the Imam is comprehensible but i don't think you need an Imam to distinguish the lesser evil between the greater evil in a highly degenerative society where sexual tendencies are reaching its heights of perversion. The other thing is that online porn has a variety of different grades of perversion, there is one which treats the woman as an object or vice versa - then we have cartoons and the sick sexual fantasies of the artists and the list goes on. Fact is you are watching someone who is devoted to lust and its abyssal tendencies - and there is scientific evidence that pornography is extremely damaging our mental wellbeing.

The lesser evil would be - what kind of porn? Do you really need to watch someone fuck like animals? A healthy imagination would be enough - if its really necessary.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 30, 2019, 01:08:05 AM
I wouldn't want to engage in an argument with my Muslims brothers on this but I doubt that jkhan has read the full article I had linked. Rather he has come up with using the easier way by throwing insults on a particular person with out first reading the article with an open mind. Let me quote an excerpt from what C.J Ahmed is saying. He says as follows,
"There is no doubt with regards to the forbiddence of watching real life porn. But what about when there are exceptions. This is where the confusion has gone out of control among muslims and half baked preachers have used this grey area to bombard lay muslims by instilling unwanted fear of being punished by Allah (swt) . If there are exceptions and there is a clear excuse, then even watching porn becomes halal. For an example if a muslim who knows that if he does not masturbate and ejaculate, or if a muslim who is finding hard to protect his gaze in public transport or he cannot reach his wife to have intercourse, if he knows that he could definitely fall in to zina porn can be viewed for the sake of a quick erection in aiding masturbation and hence this will help in the muslim protecting him/herself from falling in to zina. According to the shariah even the forbidden becomes halal due to necessity and if there is no transgression. Allah says in the Quran,

"And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
(6:119)

And
"He has only forbidden you carrion, blood, and swine, and that which has been consecrated to any other than Allah. But who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. For Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate." 
(2:173)
 
And again
“Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment”
(16:106)
The above verses clearly explains that things which are haram becomes halal for a necessity If there is no transgression. In this instance watching porn becomes a necessity and it cannot be regarded as transgression. There are many hadiths which proves that even major sins are halal when there is a necessity and this is the basic Asl (Principle). This was also the understanding of the Salaf.
"Narrated Anas (rali):
The Prophet (sal) allowed `Abdur-Rahman bin `Auf and Az-Zubair bin Al-`Awwam to wear silk because they were suffering from an itch" .
(Sahih Al Bukhari)
 
The Prophet (sal) said in a hadith narrated by Ibn Abbas (rali):
 "Allah has forgiven my nation for mistakes and forgetfulness, and what they are forced to do."
(Ibn Majah- Graded Sahih by Albani in Sahih Sunan Ibn Majah and narrated by Baihaqi and others and graded Hasan Sahih)
Let me mention another hadith to prove the point where watching porn is halal due to a necesity. The hadith is as follows:
‘A woman was brought to ‘Umar bin al Khattab May Allah be pleased with him who had been extremely thirsty, and had passed by a shepherd and asked him to give her something to drink; he had refused to give her something to drink unless she let him have his way with her. (Umar) consulted with the people as to whether he should have her stoned. ‘Ali May Allah be pleased with him said, ‘She was forced to do it, you should let her go.’ So he did so."
(Sunan Baihaqi-Uthenticated by Albani in Irwa al Ghaleel 7/341)

In the above hadith it is clear that when the women who had committed zina due to her thirst, Umar (Rali) never criticised her by saying "Are you going to die because of your thirst" or Umar (Rali) or Ali (Rali) never found fault with her for committing adultery to quench her thirst. This hadith clearly proves that if there is a reason of necessity then the haram becomes halal. The same can be said about watching porn."
(https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html))

I would like brother jkhan or anyone who is kowledgeable to give me a satisfying answer to this because this could cause fitnah.

Dear Brother…

Honestly, I didn’t read anything other than your topic and what you wrote in the thread.. that’s more than enough… coz you claimed that he has given a fatwa… who is he to give a fatwa? Next you said he claimed according to shariah, anything which is forbidden is halal under necessity or you mean to say under compulsion…where it is written in quran to say ANYTHING FORBIDDEN IS HALAL under necessity unless specified for certain matters?....
These statements are enough before I go deep in reading his article….that’s why I responded in the manner I did…I suggest you before you read his article spend sometime in reading quran and exploring it… so you would have found to certain extent what his statement is and where it stands according to quran..….
If anyone in this forum says that fellow is right and watching porn is absolutely fine then I am ready to involve in sha Allah… would anyone like to watch when your friend is having sex with his wife to emulate or to stimulate your weaknesses to get a benefit so that you can do with your wife….watching in screen and watching live… both same…after all watching the sex of your friend and wife is porn…live porn…we can make video and keep whenever required to boost..lol…
Of course pornography is a very lucrative business, so encouragements are required to sustain it and to spread more and more people possible… so Imam is on a well paid business…
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 30, 2019, 02:51:13 AM
Dear Brother,

I don't know whether you accept hadiths but as you ask for evidence from the Quran, the article mentions some verses from the Quran. This is what C.J Ahmed says,
 
"According to the shariah even the forbidden becomes halal due to necessity and if there is no transgression. Allah says in the Quran,

"And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
(6:119)

And
"He has only forbidden you carrion, blood, and swine, and that which has been consecrated to any other than Allah. But who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. For Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate." 
(2:173)
 
And again
“Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment”
(16:106)"
https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html)

As far as I know, e Quran does not says that haram is halal under a necessity under only certain manners. the necessity that is explain these verses in the Quran are general. Didn't Ibn Abbas (Rali) allow Mutah marriage if it was for a necessity?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 30, 2019, 03:51:15 AM
Dear Brother,

I don't know whether you accept hadiths but as you ask for evidence from the Quran, the article mentions some verses from the Quran. This is what C.J Ahmed says,
 
"According to the shariah even the forbidden becomes halal due to necessity and if there is no transgression. Allah says in the Quran,

"And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
(6:119)

And
"He has only forbidden you carrion, blood, and swine, and that which has been consecrated to any other than Allah. But who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. For Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate." 
(2:173)
 
And again
“Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment”
(16:106)"
https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html)

As far as I know, e Quran does not says that haram is halal under a necessity under only certain manners. the necessity that is explain these verses in the Quran are general. Didn't Ibn Abbas (Rali) allow Mutah marriage if it was for a necessity?

Sorry my dear fellow brother....
IF you ask me to go in line with hadith, then, sorry... i have said goodbye to hadith long time back.... May Allah guide you with what is right.....
If you remain within quran, then in sha allah i will continue in this topic if you need any further clarification....
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 30, 2019, 04:10:44 AM
 This is what C.J Ahmed says by quoting the verses from the Quran,
 
"According to the shariah even the forbidden becomes halal due to necessity and if there is no transgression. Allah says in the Quran,

"And why should you not eat of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has been pronounced (at the time of slaughtering the animal), while He has explained to you in detail what is forbidden to you, except under compulsion of necessity?”
(6:119)

And
"He has only forbidden you carrion, blood, and swine, and that which has been consecrated to any other than Allah. But who is driven by necessity, neither craving nor transgressing, it is no sin for him. For Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate."
(2:173)
 
And again
“Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment”
(16:106)"
https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html)

As far as I know, e Quran does not says that haram is halal under a necessity under only certain manners. the necessity that is explain these verses in the Quran are general.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: good logic on October 30, 2019, 06:01:46 AM
Peace Zakir.

You seem to be mixing up necessity and compulsion/forcing a choice on someone. And you seem to think certain things are a necessity!!!!

If you are forced to do something ,then GOD is forgiver most Merciful- Really forced, like someone putting a gun to your head!!!

Food is a necessity, one dies without it, hence the exception in the verses about food.
.
Do you think watching pornography is a necessity? Then Zina, murder...etc all can be a necessity also( if you want someone out of the way because it is necessary for you?)
Do you see where the Imam s logic/hadiths are taking you?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 30, 2019, 07:21:10 AM
Dear Brother,

The Quran clearly says the word"necessity" and nowhere in the Quran does Allah says that the case of force or necessity is only for food. This is what happens when you rely only on the Quran and deny hadiths due to your ignorance. You said,

"Do you think watching pornography is a necessity? Then Zina, murder...etc all can be a necessity also( if you want someone out of the way because it is necessary for you?"

My question is, why can't murder or zina fall under necessity? If you are learning medicine, then you will have to study the male and female body in it's naked form. What do you think of this, is it force or necessity?, a male doctor operating or taking out a baby of a woman, is this force or necessity?

I would like to kindly ask you brother, which verse in the Quran states to deny hadiths? If you are going to rely solely on the Quran, then I would like to kindly as you, please show me a verse in the Quran which says that watching porn is haram?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: SarahY on October 30, 2019, 01:03:33 PM
Zakir, you do realise the Quran is a book of spiritual guidance, it isn't a book that outlines every question and answer under the sun or in your mind.

Firstly, can you define necessity?

Quote
As far as I know, e Quran does not says that haram is halal under a necessity under only certain manners. the necessity that is explain these verses in the Quran are general

Can you clarify what you mean by the necessity that is explained in the verses is general? what do you mean by that?

Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on October 30, 2019, 01:19:33 PM
Dear Brother,

 If you are going to rely solely on the Quran, then I would like to kindly as you, please show me a verse in the Quran which says that watching porn is haram?

24:30 Tell the acknowledging men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do
24:31 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.

The article you are referring also mentions these verses.

I am not sure how to watch a porn by lowering my gaze.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 01:08:21 AM
Dear brother,


The verses you have mentioned  about lowering the gaze could mean anything. How can you interpret lowering the gaze to mean that it is watching pornography?  I once again ask you to point a single unequivocal statement in the Quran which says that watching porn is haram. This is what happens when you only rely only the Quran and deny the hadiths. The meaning for necessity is explained in the hadiths. Following only the Quran contradicts the very Quran itself.Allah says in the Quran

"If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger"
(Quran 4:59)
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 31, 2019, 01:47:39 AM
Dear brother,


The verses you have mentioned  about lowering the gaze could mean anything. How can you interpret lowering the gaze to mean that it is watching pornography?  I once again ask you to point a single unequivocal statement in the Quran which says that watching porn is haram. This is what happens when you only rely only the Quran and deny the hadiths. The meaning for necessity is explained in the hadiths. Following only the Quran contradicts the very Quran itself.Allah says in the Quran

"If you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger"
(Quran 4:59)

Brother Zakir.....you registered in this forum and put up a topic and wanted others clarifications saying “IS THIS TRUE? You have quran + most importantly millions of hadiths to each and everything, I guess, Haven’t you found an answer in them for pornography.. if NO.. then your quran + hadith also not enough which you rely on so that you have to approach another source… And further you said that you don’t want to engage in argument with your muslims brothers….right? But, story derails…… Are you ready to debate a marathon topic.…
…what you claim is mighty in your time of ignorance unfortunately…. Most of us were in that stage if I am not assumed wrongly..… so, I feel for you… that’s why I sense no one is answering you coz you didn’t want to debate…. May be coz they feel for you guidance… coz they know they were in such situations… simply in among ignorance…your questions are very simple probably for them I presume…Me or they didn’t throw away hadiths in blindness but after clear verification….I suggest you to read topics under Hadith & discussions or Sunni & Shia or you better raise a new topic under them… and pose whatever you want to, probably answers will flow.. anticipate if you are neutral will end up in right track unless you bend your neck on something for which you don’t know the root….

So…. Just explain to all of us pls in detail… what is HADITH in your understanding….? And What is Quran? And why you follow them both? And Have you verified both with precise verification for all the so called authenticated Hadith? Or are you just following from here and there?
Remember no one will be your enemy here…. Most probably you will have also friends who support your claim for following hadith… you will not be alone i guess..… :group:
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 03:34:38 AM
Dear brother,

I don't  want to divert this topic from pornography  to hadiths. Maybe I should post questions relating to hadiths on the hadith section. Now coming beck to the topic of pornography,  as you are a Quraniyoon, I ask you a simple question, and thst is,can you show a single unequivocal statement  from the Quran which says that porn is haram?  As far as I know C.J Ahmed  is a srilankan/Yemenise preacher who is been arguing that porn is halal if it is for a necessity. Even in rhe Quran there is a story of two girls working during the time of moses because their father was old.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 31, 2019, 04:35:27 AM
Dear brother,

I don't  want to divert this topic from pornography  to hadiths. Maybe I should post questions relating to hadiths on the hadith section. Now coming beck to the topic of pornography,  as you are a Quraniyoon, I ask you a simple question, and thst is,can you show a single unequivocal statement  from the Quran which says that porn is haram?  As far as I know C.J Ahmed  is a srilankan/Yemenise preacher who is been arguing that porn is halal if it is for a necessity. Even in rhe Quran there is a story of two girls working during the time of moses because their father was old.

Peace brother....
Yes... Better you approach hadith segment for hadith....
So you are curious a straightforward statement in quran for forbidding pornography.... Help  me out first your definition of  Pornography and Zina....so In sha allah I would respond your curious unequivocal statement question .....
Then I will bring a. List  where there is no unequivocal statement in quran to forbid  still you (zakir) will forbid with moral verses of quran ....
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: good logic on October 31, 2019, 07:37:41 AM
Peace zakir..
Thank you brother for clarifying that you only want a verse from Qoran that clearly says: "Watching porn is haram"

Well, there is no verse that explicitly states this. Nor can you find a different verse that clearly states :"Watching porn is halal under necessity".
So what are you going to do? Watch porn or not? Or did GOD forget to mention it?
Baring in mind GOD never forgets:-Do we agree-?:

[Qoran 19:64] We do not come down except by the command of your Lord. To Him belongs our past, our future, and everything between them. Your Lord is NEVER FORGETFUL.
Now
I guess you have to define/understand /categorise..."Watching porn" ,then see if it falls under" Sayiaa/Fahisha/bad things… Or under  Hasana/Tayibat/good thing...
This is where you have to study Qoran Alone and nothing else. Why Qoran Alone?:
1-GOD s words are enough. They never run out.
8:109
Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply."
.قُل لَو كانَ البَحرُ مِدادًا لِكَلِمٰتِ رَبّى لَنَفِدَ البَحرُ قَبلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمٰتُ رَبّى وَلَو جِئنا بِمِثلِهِ مَدَدًا

2- Qoran Alone for redemption:
6:19
Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "God's. He is the witness between me and you that this Qoran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods* beside God." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."
*6:19 This verse proclaims the Quran as the only source of religious guidance. Those who uphold additional sources, such as Hadith & Sunna (lies attributed to the Prophet), are defined as idolaters.
قُل أَىُّ شَىءٍ أَكبَرُ شَهٰدَةً قُلِ اللَّهُ شَهيدٌ بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَأوحِىَ إِلَىَّ هٰذَا القُرءانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِ وَمَن بَلَغَ أَئِنَّكُم لَتَشهَدونَ أَنَّ مَعَ اللَّهِ ءالِهَةً أُخرىٰ قُل لا أَشهَدُ قُل إِنَّما هُوَ إِلٰهٌ وٰحِدٌ وَإِنَّنى بَرىءٌ مِمّا تُشرِكونَ
 Or where do you see Qoran and hadiths in ant verse ?

Or bring me a Hadith book/s that have been left to us by the prophet like he left the book Qoran?
Or keep following your Imam.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 10:27:06 AM
Dear Brother,


You agree that there are no explicit verse that says that watching porn is haram. Anything else is your own explanation. Now let me explain the verse you bring in the Quran and that is, 6:19 and you argue that the Quran is the only source of Islam. You have taken this verse out of context. This verse nowhere does it say that the Quran is the only source. This was only argues about the oneness of Allah. Your argument that Quran is the only source contradicts the Quran itself. No where in the Quran does it clearly say that Quran is the only source. Allah(Swt) says,

 (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger
(4:59)

 “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life
(8:24)

Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah, then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
(3:31)
If the sunnah of the prophet(Sal) was not a source, then Allah would have not told us to follow the prophet(Sal). I would like to kindly ask you why you reject the hadiths? is it because the hadiths were written by people?
Title: DOES THE QURAN FORBID ANIME/CARTOON PORN?
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 10:47:33 AM
I had posted earlier about a Muslim Imam stating that watching porn is halal under a necessity. This same Imam has given a fatwa stating that watching anime porn is not haram. You can read the full article here https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-cartoonanime-porn-is-not-haram-in-islam.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-cartoonanime-porn-is-not-haram-in-islam.html) . This imam is known as C.J Ahmed and is an exponent of Salafism/Wahabism. I did not find a convincing answer from anyone with regards to watching porn. I would like to know whether watching anime porn is haram in the Quran. I have not come across any hadiths prohibiting anime porn and to my knowledge no verse in the Quran forbids it too. Am I wrong? Those who call themselves the Quraniyoon are restricted in many forms of thinking because they do not accept Islam beyond the Quran and this has in my opinion limited their ability to use the intellect beyond the Quran. I would like to ask, what do you think about watching anime porn? I would like to have a good answer that would convince me.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: SarahY on October 31, 2019, 12:01:25 PM
Zakir,

You're going off topic. There's a whole section for hadith if you want that.

There is no verse that says pornography is halal, so if you choose a twisted interpretation that is your own doing.

Quran: do not utter falsehoods by letting your tongues determine [at your own discretion], "This is lawful and that is forbidden", thus attributing your own lying inventions to God:  for, behold, they who attribute their own lying inventions to God will never attain to a happy state! - 16:116
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 12:22:28 PM
I do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is halal and at the same time we do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is haram. If there are no explicit verses stating that porn is haram does it not mean that it is halal? This is my simple question. You quote the verse below

"Do not utter falsehoods by letting your tongues determine [at your own discretion], "This is lawful and that is forbidden", thus attributing your own lying inventions to God:  for, behold, they who attribute their own lying inventions to God will never attain to a happy state!" 16:116

According to this verses what is haram and halal and how can you use this verse to determine porn as haram?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: good logic on October 31, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
Peace Zakir.
You say here, quote:
If the sunnah of the prophet(Sal) was not a source, then Allah would have not told us to follow the prophet(Sal). I would like to kindly ask you why you reject the hadiths? is it because the hadiths were written by people?

First ,I do not see follow the prophet in the verses you quoted. The verses are specific about "Obey the messenger" or refer it to the messenger"...i.e GOD is consistent and specific about using the word messenger instead of the word prophet-Nabi-. do you know why?
Simple and effective use of the word messenger restrict you and the reader to the message. The messenger delivers the message nothing more and nothing less. Only the word of GOD is the message
If the messenger delivers his words or somebody else s words ,then he is no longer GOD s messenger.The
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: good logic on October 31, 2019, 01:25:36 PM
I will complete the post above here:

The messenger in Qoran is GOD s messenger and only delivers Qoran.
Lastly, the Nabi is the human person that can have his own personal opinion and words. That is why GOD has been consistent and specific in using "Obey the messenger, Refer it to the messenger"...etc.

You need to study Qoran so you do not confuse the words and their meanings.
 Of course you are free to watch pornography and follow whoever you choose ..
GOD bless you.
Peace
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: SarahY on October 31, 2019, 03:11:54 PM
Quote
I do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is halal and at the same time we do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is haram. If there are no explicit verses stating that porn is haram does it not mean that it is halal? This is my simple question.

If something is not stated as haram how does it automatically mean it is halal? where is your evidence for such a claim? simple question

Secondly something doesn't need to be labelled as haram for it to be bad or wrong.

If lowering the gaze is commanded, how can that be achieved through porn?

You can read the Quran to determine what is deemed halal and haram.


Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: hawk99 on October 31, 2019, 03:23:20 PM
I do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is halal and at the same time we do agree that there are no verses stating that porn is haram.

I agree.

Peace zakr there where no movies back then.  So the question becomes
can zakr watch two people or three people or a room full of people having
sex while he jerks off.    :hmm


                             :peace:
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 31, 2019, 05:50:23 PM
Dear  brother.... Zakir..

You didn't furnish the definition.. Fine.. I won't ask again... .  Your claim to bring a verse from quran which forbids 'Pornography' is much similar to claims of even the people who claim they follow quran only and asking to bring verse which forbids unequivocally 'LGBT'..... Funny isn't it?. ......
Then I claim where is the verse in quran to forbid unequivocally to 'Sex with one's own mother or father'..... Bring me a confirmation in quran forbidding it... If not forbidden explicitly then will it become Halal? You can ask whatever not forbidden in quran and put a question..
Senseless ignorants only would pose such questions...
Brother... Quran is not a book came to list each and every act of human to state this is forbidden and that is halal... Nonsensical.... God has asked us to establish ethics and bringforth betterment and to get rid of bad and do good... So many criteria to ponder in quran... Rather asking unequivocal statement is foolishness....  Another would ask 'Can I touch the buttocks of the girls' ..... Why not God not forbidden in quran with unequivocal statement... Hilarious for me such who pose questions as such forgetting what is the right path and always lean towards evil.... Take the Quran in its deep sense and always compare and explore... This is why God says this same quran can misguide many....
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 06:05:22 PM
Peace Zakir.
You say here, quote:
If the sunnah of the prophet(Sal) was not a source, then Allah would have not told us to follow the prophet(Sal). I would like to kindly ask you why you reject the hadiths? is it because the hadiths were written by people?

First ,I do not see follow the prophet in the verses you quoted. The verses are specific about "Obey the messenger" or refer it to the messenger"...i.e GOD is consistent and specific about using the word messenger instead of the word prophet-Nabi-. do you know why?
Simple and effective use of the word messenger restrict you and the reader to the message. The messenger delivers the message nothing more and nothing less. Only the word of GOD is the message
If the messenger delivers his words or somebody else s words ,then he is no longer GOD s messenger.


My Reply
First of all you should understand the arabic meaning for this verse. The arabic word"فَرُدُّوهُ" means to refer back meaning to refer to the prophet(Sal).
 (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger
(4:59)

There is no mentioning of obeying in this verse. Please do not twist the verses because you do not want to accept the hadiths due to your ignorance in Islam. I would like to kindly ask you why do you say that the hadiths are not acceptable is it because it was written by humans?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 06:17:29 PM
Dear  brother.... Zakir..

You didn't furnish the definition.. Fine.. I won't ask again... .  Your claim to bring a verse from quran which forbids 'Pornography' is much similar to claims of even the people who claim they follow quran only and asking to bring verse which forbids unequivocally 'LGBT'..... Funny isn't it?. ......
Then I claim where is the verse in quran to forbid unequivocally to 'Sex with one's own mother or father'..... Bring me a confirmation in quran forbidding it... If not forbidden explicitly then will it become Halal? You can ask whatever not forbidden in quran and put a question..
Senseless ignorants only would pose such questions...
Brother... Quran is not a book came to list each and every act of human to state this is forbidden and that is halal... Nonsensical.... God has asked us to establish ethics and bringforth betterment and to get rid of bad and do good... So many criteria to ponder in quran... Rather asking unequivocal statement is foolishness....  Another would ask 'Can I touch the buttocks of the girls' ..... Why not God not forbidden in quran with unequivocal statement... Hilarious for me such who pose questions as such forgetting what is the right path and always lean towards evil.... Take the Quran in its deep sense and always compare and explore... This is why God says this same quran can misguide many


My Reply

LGBT is clearly forbidden. You can refer the story of prophet Lut in the Quran for why homosexuality is forbidden. First of all, the person who is confused and ignorant about the hadiths will only reject it not the one with sound knowledge in Islam. You say
 
"God has asked us to establish ethics and bring forth betterment and to get rid of bad and do good'

Allah would not give a confusing and half explained message to humanity by telling them to figure out what is good or wrong. First of all, if Islam has not told what ethics is then any tom and dicks opinion would be ethics. I again ask you what kind of things are haram? You won't be able to give a clear answer to this using the Quran because Islam was completed not only through the Quran but also through the sunnah. This is why Allah says in the Quran,

 "Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins'
(Al-Quran-3:31)

If the hadiths were lies then Allah would not have told us Muslims to follow the prophet(Sal). I asked you earlier a question and that is, why do you say that hadiths are not a sourcein Islam is it because it was written by human beings? I am awaiting for a reply from you.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: Amra94 on October 31, 2019, 06:24:25 PM
Lower your gaze but secretly watch people do it. You cant convince retards
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on October 31, 2019, 06:33:32 PM
"Lower your gaze but secretly watch people do it. You cant convince retards"


Reply
It is more retarded to think that only the Quran is the source in Islam. I would like to ask you what does God mean by lowering gaze? I doubt any Quranist can answer this question except to use ones own assumptions and give a ruling to it and then again would contradict the very statement of Allah(Swt) who says

"And We have sent down to thee the Quran explaining all things"
(16:89)

If Allah says that everything is explained in the Quran, then why can't you bring a single proof to prove that watching porn is haram?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: Amra94 on October 31, 2019, 06:40:53 PM
"Lower your gaze but secretly watch people do it. You cant convince retards"


Reply
It is more retarded to think that only the Quran is the source in Islam. I would like to ask you what does God mean by lowering gaze? I doubt any Quranist can answer this question except to use ones own assumptions and give a ruling to it and then again would contradict the very statement of Allah(Swt) who says

"And We have sent down to thee the Quran explaining all things"
(16:89)

If Allah says that everything is explained in the Quran, then why can't you bring a single proof to prove that watching porn is haram?
The Quran is only clear to those who use their reason. Which you do not do.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 31, 2019, 08:24:17 PM
Dear  brother.... Zakir..




LGBT is clearly forbidden.
 
Interesting.... Where it is given an unequivocal statement by God saying “forbidden for you is LGBT” or “Forbidden for you homosexuality”… If no unequivocal statement still if you say Forbidden... why contradiction here and why allow porn... based on what?....


Brother I wish myself and others can keep patience with you and with your ignorance of clear verses of quran only hoping that you learn… but if your intention is waste time of others with clear rejections of exposing your flaws, then better we leave the ignorant ones aside…

Don’t skip… answer pls … that’s the better way of argument if you want to survive…. Otherwise you will look fool in those who look at this debate in a neutral point of view.… “Having sex with Mother or Father or Sister or Brother or Son or Daughter is forbidden in Quran with a clear cut or unequivocal statement?” iF Yes .. bring the verse… If NO.. then why forbid what God has not Forbidden… if NO and if still forbid then there must be a reason with logic away from unequivocal statement by God.. isn’t it?
I can bring loads of examples not only related with sex but on every topic…
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: Cerberus on October 31, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
bait and switch ?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on October 31, 2019, 10:39:20 PM
Brother Zakir....

7:33 “Say, "My Lord has only FORBIDDEN (harrama) immoralities (fawahisha-plural)- what is apparent of them and what is concealed  … …....”
17:32 “And do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse (zina). Indeed, it is ever an immorality (fahisha-singular) and is evil as a way.”


Carefully look at above verses… Word used Harrama and Fahisha… and apparent and concealed…..

As per 7:33 God has made haram (immoralities-fawahish) of any nature be it manifest or concealed.. then the next verse 17:32 says not to near ZINA.. and clearly called ZINA is FAHISHA and reiterated as EVIL as a way…So it means, ZINA is one of those which comprises FAHISHA list or zina itself a fahisha…

Now apply logic and reason.. coz God says us to use the reason.. isn’t HE?... the people who are involved in various type of Porn is clearly doing ZINA (includes LGBT) and you and your imam emphasize watching what they do is Halal while God has Forbidden ZINA… God says bring 4 witnesses against those who do ZINA prior to punish them, but you claim watching them is HALAL… after watching a Halal thing, HOW WOULD YOU EVER BE A WITNESS AGAINST THOSE WHO DOES ZINA while you claim what they do is fine since watching them makes you feel better and stimulate… ridiculous part is… God orders for 100 lashes as punishment for those who are fornicators… But you and your imam are in support of the fornicators which you watch (live or Video) as porn and claiming it is brilliant side support and halal…. You watched a halal matter but God orders 100 lashes for what you watched..what contradictory thing that is… You are super nonsensical like all your hadith oriented people…. You don’t have any constructive way to reason the quran or any general matter and unfortunately you are blinded to reason the quran…simply brainwashed by scholars...Amra94 said rightly about you in her last thread..… Now did I use Hadith to explain your pathetic and weak claim… what I used is only quran and reasoning it to substantiate..…
Open your eyes if you in fact love to live in janna…. I have no time to allocate for ignorant folks but I will dedicate for believers my valuable time..… Peace brother... May Allah bless you with what is right…

No more comments from me on this topic… if you raise any hadith topic separately I will in sha allah participate…
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: good logic on November 01, 2019, 12:44:45 AM
Peace Zakir.
You are not reading the posts properly . you have repeated the same gaff here, quote:

First of all you should understand the arabic meaning for this verse. The arabic word"فَرُدُّوهُ" means to refer back meaning to refer to the prophet(Sal).
 (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger
(4:59)

 Refer back to the prophet? it says to the messenger. in the verse not prophet.
And I explained why GOD choose to say messenger .i.e messenger of Allah who delivers the message of Allah-Qoran-

But you ignore . I find that you are not asking a sincere question since you are not interested in reading posts properly.
Your aim is to discuss hadiths really. Brothers and sisters are not going to take your bait.
The subject has been discussed before  search the forum.
Thank you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on November 01, 2019, 01:21:08 AM
Dear brother jkhan, you said
"Brother I wish myself and others can keep patience with you and with your ignorance of clear verses of quran only hoping that you learn… but if your intention is waste time of others with clear rejections of exposing your flaws, then better we leave the ignorant ones aside…

Don’t skip… answer pls … that’s the better way of argument if you want to survive…. Otherwise you will look fool in those who look at this debate in a neutral point of view.… “Having sex with Mother or Father or Sister or Brother or Son or Daughter is forbidden in Quran with a clear cut or unequivocal statement?” iF Yes .. bring the verse… If NO.. then why forbid what God has not Forbidden… if NO and if still forbid then there must be a reason with logic away from unequivocal statement by God.. isn’t it?


My Reply,
There is clear evidence of Allah azza wa jal forbidding homosexuality. Prophet lut said to the homosexuals,

And Lūṭ, when he said to his people, ‘Do you commit abomination such as no one from among the peoples has done before you? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. You surely are a transgressing people.’” (7:80-81)


“Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds. Indeed, you approach men and obstruct the road and commit in your meetings [every] evil.” And the answer of his people was not but they said, “Bring us the punishment of Allah, if you should be of the truthful.” (Qur’an 29-28-29)

But, for porn I ask you kindly where is an expkucit verse?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on November 01, 2019, 07:37:28 PM

But, for porn I ask you kindly where is an expkucit verse?

Peace Zakir,

Quran gives boundaries and limits. If we cross the limit we  transgress. Not always you will find specific verse.

Are you looking for a verse which says " Do not watch porn?" 

Obviously that does not exist. I just want to ask you what do you understand by "lowering your gaze and guarding private parts" the following verses. When you look at the naked people showing their private parts performing sexual act(zina) in the porn  what is happening with your gaze/look?

24:30 Tell the acknowledging men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
24:31 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.


Also what do you understand by "go near fawāḥisha"  and " go near zina" in the following verses ?

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=6&verse=151

6:151 Say: "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should not set up anything with Him - and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=17&verse=32

17:32 Do not go near adultery, for it is a immorality(fawāḥisha) and an evil path.


"going near" is not committing fawāḥisha or zina

The participants of the porn movie are committing fawāḥisha or zina . By watching it we are coming close to it or bringing it close to us(in our phone/laptop/tv etc). That is my understanding. You may argue differently .

Watching fawāḥisha or zina seduces us from our soul/nafs.  More we watch it more we get addicted and increases our addiction to watching it.

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=12&verse=24

12:24 And she was obsessed with him, and he did obsess with her - had it not been that he saw the proof of his Lord - it was thus that We turned evil and immorality(fawāḥisha) away from him; he is of Our loyal servants.





Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on November 01, 2019, 08:59:04 PM

Exactly ST1111,,,,
Very good point 'nearing zina'... Let me put that this way... What went wrong to the woman who seduced Yousuf... She was looking at Yousuf excessively in a manner to develop her desire though Yousuf doesn't belong to her... That look on Yousuf's body enticed her to seduce Yousuf when opportunity arises .. Had she lowered her gaze she would not have carried away... That's control.... Unfortunately what she did was NEARING ZINA.... that promted through watching without lowering gaze....
People who practice zina in porn are not believers  .. They can't practice zina and still call believers... So those who look at DISBELIVERS and tempt their feeling and call halal... If halal bring some believing men and women and let them do porn and call halal.. Can you do that? Is that right way... Then why approach DISBELIVERS who lost the path of Allah and those evil people who drag you to path of Satan resulting hell.. ..
Remember Porn is not word probably in the yester society..(no need porn then while prostitution was in abundance)... So it is not in Quran either... So  reason your wits and see what is happening in porn... Thus judge... There is limit for foolishness.... Porn is business of evil people who knows only evil... If you encourage watching them then you only cultivate evil ....what difference it makes to the one who runs prostitution business and who runs porn business? All under one umbrella.... Sadly you don't get it... I won't be surprised  even now if you ask 'pls bring unequivocal verse from QURAN '....😂 lol... You are funny...

O! Zakir your belief is not complete without hadith... Right? then at least follow below hadiths and see that even allow porn....


Allah has written for Adam's son his share of adultery which he commits inevitably. The adultery of the eyes is the sight (to gaze at a forbidden thing), the adultery of the tongue is the talk, and the inner self wishes and desires and the private parts testify all this or deny it. Abu Hurairah. Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud.

"No man or woman should look at the naked body of each other (unless married). Sahih Muslim"

By God, I would prefer to be thrown from the skies and spatterred in parts than to look at someone's private parts or let someone look at my private parts. Narrated by Salman. Almabsooth kitabul istehsan

Once someone's thigh was open in public. The Prophet said don't you know thigh is supposed to be kept covered? Jerhad Aslami. Muatta Imam Malik, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud

 The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: 'The eyes commit adultery, the tongue commits adultery, the hands commit adultery, the feet commit adultery and then the private parts confirm it or deny it." (Reported by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal...

It's time for you to neglect your own hadith...

Below verse suits you your imam...
24:19
" Indeed, those who like that immorality(fahisha) should be spread [or publicized] among those who have believed will have a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you do not know."
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on November 02, 2019, 03:43:16 AM
 Brother jkhan, Assalamu Alaikum!

You have mentioned the following,

Exactly ST1111,,,,
Very good point 'nearing zina'... Let me put that this way... What went wrong to the woman who seduced Yousuf... She was looking at Yousuf excessively in a manner to develop her desire though Yousuf doesn't belong to her... That look on Yousuf's body enticed her to seduce Yousuf when opportunity arises .. Had she lowered her gaze she would not have carried away... That's control.... Unfortunately what she did was NEARING ZINA.... that promted through watching without lowering gaze....
People who practice zina in porn are not believers  .. They can't practice zina and still call believers... So those who look at DISBELIVERS and tempt their feeling and call halal... If halal bring some believing men and women and let them do porn and call halal.. Can you do that? Is that right way... Then why approach DISBELIVERS who lost the path of Allah and those evil people who drag you to path of Satan resulting hell.. ..
Remember Porn is not word probably in the yester society..(no need porn then while prostitution was in abundance)... So it is not in Quran either... So  reason your wits and see what is happening in porn... Thus judge... There is limit for foolishness.... Porn is business of evil people who knows only evil... If you encourage watching them then you only cultivate evil ....what difference it makes to the one who runs prostitution business and who runs porn business? All under one umbrella.... Sadly you don't get it... I won't be surprised  even now if you ask 'pls bring unequivocal verse from QURAN '....😂 lol... You are funny...

O! Zakir your belief is not complete without hadith... Right? then at least follow below hadiths and see that even allow porn....


Allah has written for Adam's son his share of adultery which he commits inevitably. The adultery of the eyes is the sight (to gaze at a forbidden thing), the adultery of the tongue is the talk, and the inner self wishes and desires and the private parts testify all this or deny it. Abu Hurairah. Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud.

"No man or woman should look at the naked body of each other (unless married). Sahih Muslim"

By God, I would prefer to be thrown from the skies and spatterred in parts than to look at someone's private parts or let someone look at my private parts. Narrated by Salman. Almabsooth kitabul istehsan

Once someone's thigh was open in public. The Prophet said don't you know thigh is supposed to be kept covered? Jerhad Aslami. Muatta Imam Malik, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud


"The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: 'The eyes commit adultery, the tongue commits adultery, the hands commit adultery, the feet commit adultery and then the private parts confirm it or deny it." (Reported by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal...

It's time for you to neglect your own hadith...

Below verse suits you your imam...
24:19
" Indeed, those who like that immorality(fahisha) should be spread [or publicized] among those who have believed will have a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you do not know"

My Reply
Brother, I never said that porn is halal. Don't get me wrong. I just asked you a simple question and that is, where does it say unequivocal in the Quran that watching porn is haram? You instead of answering that question is now quoting hadiths. Now your desperation has brought you to quote from the story of Yusuf(Alahissalam) and how he was seduced. You are trying to bring and interpretation of your own to mean that the woman who seduced Yusuf looked at him. Where does it say in the Quran that she looked at him excessively? The story of Yusuf has nothing to do with lowering the gaze. Lowering the gaze could mean anything if you are relying only on the Quran. Most of the verses in the Quran are ambiguous and how can you give your own interpretation to the Quran? ten people will give ten interpretations on one single verse. I ask you, who is correct. This is what happens if you rely only on the Quran. You are a hadith rejector hence a deviant person no doubt. The prophet(Sal) explained the Quran through his sunnah which is preserved in the authentic hadiths. This is why Allah says,

."And, (O Glorious Messenger,) We have revealed to you the Glorious Reminder (the Qur’an) so that you may explain clearly to people that have been sent down to them and that they may meditate.”
(16:44)

For the sake of argument let's agree that the Quran is the only source in Islam and hadiths are all lies, Now Allah(Swt) says in the Quran,
"And We have revealed to you that Glorious Book which is a clear exposition of everything and is guidance, mercy and glad tidings for the believers.”
(16:89)

Now, according to this verse, everything is explained in the Quran and Quranists like you would agree to this verse. My question to you is , if everything is explained in the Quran, then why doesn't Allah mention anything about watching porn?

Allah says,
"And whatever the Messenger (blessings and peace be upon him) gives you, take that and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from that)"
(59:7)

I ask you, if the hadiths are unacceptable, then why does Allah tell us to follow the prophet(Sal) and to take whatever he gives us and to forbid things which he has forbidden?



I am convinced clearly after reading imam C.J Ahmed's fatwa that watching porn is halal if it is for a necessity. You have not read the full article and I don't know why you do not want to. Maybe you are scared that you might get confused. Again, here is the link for the article https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html (https://cjislam.weebly.com/why-watching-porn-is-allowed-in-islam-for-a-necessity.html)
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: jkhan on November 02, 2019, 04:37:02 AM
Brother jkhan, Assalamu Alaikum!
 

My Reply
Brother, I never said that porn is halal. 

That's more than enough... Take care... I have honestly no time with such an ignorant person like you... You don't even argue to convince anything.... Just hovering with pure negligence....

Open a new thread for hadith of you want... Then if I wish I will give you a good debate  if you keep in track of debate... If you deviate in this same manner... Then you go argue  with your hadith followers who never support porn.... But you and your imam... God bless you..
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on November 02, 2019, 07:17:24 AM
Brother jkhan, Assalamu Alaikum!

Now, according to this verse, everything is explained in the Quran and Quranists like you would agree to this verse. My question to you is , if everything is explained in the Quran, then why doesn't Allah mention anything about watching porn?

Allah says,
"And whatever the Messenger (blessings and peace be upon him) gives you, take that and whatever he forbids you, abstain (from that)"
(59:7)

I ask you, if the hadiths are unacceptable, then why does Allah tell us to follow the prophet(Sal) and to take whatever he gives us and to forbid things which he has forbidden?



Peace Zakir,

I still have not got your answer what do you understand by lowering your gaze. Even the article/fatwa you are referring mentions this verses(24:30-31) from Qruan.

Btw when you quote from Quran quote the whole verse. What do you think God is talking about in the verse below? Hadith?

59:7 Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.


Muhammed was both the messenger of God and elected leader of a diverse group in the city-state of Yathrib. As a leader and commander, he had the right to allocate the spoils of war. The verse does not mean that Muhammed gave us another book, or a television set, or silly stories, or numerous prohibitions; it is about a specific case, that is, the distribution of spoils of war. The followers of hadith and sunna, abuse this verse and take it out of context hoping to justify volumes of books containing numerous contradictory and silly hearsay reports. They want us to believe that to "take whatever Muhammed has given" means to take whatever story Bukhari and his ilk told several centuries after Muhammed's departure!


Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on November 03, 2019, 03:09:38 AM
Replying to seekingtruth1111,

Brother, you said


Peace Zakir,

I still have not got your answer what do you understand by lowering your gaze. Even the article/fatwa you are referring mentions this verses(24:30-31) from Qruan.

Btw when you quote from Quran quote the whole verse. What do you think God is talking about in the verse below? Hadith?

59:7 Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.


Muhammed was both the messenger of God and elected leader of a diverse group in the city-state of Yathrib. As a leader and commander, he had the right to allocate the spoils of war. The verse does not mean that Muhammed gave us another book, or a television set, or silly stories, or numerous prohibitions; it is about a specific case, that is, the distribution of spoils of war. The followers of hadith and sunna, abuse this verse and take it out of context hoping to justify volumes of books containing numerous contradictory and silly hearsay reports. They want us to believe that to "take whatever Muhammed has given" means to take whatever story Bukhari and his ilk told several centuries after Muhammed's departure!"

My Reply

What is important is not what I believe in this verse, What is important is how you come to a conclusion that porn is haram according to this verse. You say that porn is haram according 24:30-31. I ask you how did you come to this conclusion when the Quran itself does not mention anything about watching porn?   
You say,

"They want us to believe that to "take whatever Muhammed has given" means to take whatever story Bukhari and his ilk told several centuries after Muhammed's departure!"

My Reply,

Brother/Sister,

The hadiths were written and authenticated through a chain of trustworthy narrators and denying the hadiths by saying that it was written centuries after Muhammad(Sal)'s departure is a false and weak argument. The hadiths in Bukhari were narrated through the chain of the trustworthy companions of the prophet and was compiled while some of them were alive. Even the Quran was written after Muhammad(Sal). According to you, the Quran also cannot be accepted as authentic because it was written by people other than the prophet Muhammad(Sal). Just because you assume that hadiths are wrong does not make a hadith wrong. You believing that the Quran is the word of God is also an assumption according to your argument. I once again ask you, show me a single clear verse forbidding porn?
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on November 03, 2019, 03:47:02 AM
Replying to seekingtruth1111,

Brother, you said


Peace Zakir,

I still have not got your answer what do you understand by lowering your gaze. Even the article/fatwa you are referring mentions this verses(24:30-31) from Qruan.

Btw when you quote from Quran quote the whole verse. What do you think God is talking about in the verse below? Hadith?

59:7 Whatever God provided to His messenger from the people of the townships, then it shall be to God and His messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of God, for God is mighty in retribution.


Muhammed was both the messenger of God and elected leader of a diverse group in the city-state of Yathrib. As a leader and commander, he had the right to allocate the spoils of war. The verse does not mean that Muhammed gave us another book, or a television set, or silly stories, or numerous prohibitions; it is about a specific case, that is, the distribution of spoils of war. The followers of hadith and sunna, abuse this verse and take it out of context hoping to justify volumes of books containing numerous contradictory and silly hearsay reports. They want us to believe that to "take whatever Muhammed has given" means to take whatever story Bukhari and his ilk told several centuries after Muhammed's departure!"

My Reply

What is important is not what I believe in this verse, What is important is how you come to a conclusion that porn is haram according to this verse. You say that porn is haram according 24:30-31. I ask you how did you come to this conclusion when the Quran itself does not mention anything about watching porn?   
You say,

"They want us to believe that to "take whatever Muhammed has given" means to take whatever story Bukhari and his ilk told several centuries after Muhammed's departure!"

My Reply,

Brother/Sister,

The hadiths were written and authenticated through a chain of trustworthy narrators and denying the hadiths by saying that it was written centuries after Muhammad(Sal)'s departure is a false and weak argument. The hadiths in Bukhari were narrated through the chain of the trustworthy companions of the prophet and was compiled while some of them were alive. Even the Quran was written after Muhammad(Sal). According to you, the Quran also cannot be accepted as authentic because it was written by people other than the prophet Muhammad(Sal). Just because you assume that hadiths are wrong does not make a hadith wrong. You believing that the Quran is the word of God is also an assumption according to your argument. I once again ask you, show me a single clear verse forbidding porn?

And still you avoided the straight answer. How can you watch a porn by lowering your gaze?

Verses 24:30-31 clearly says not to look at private parts of others . How can you watch porn if you  follow 24:30-31 ?

Its a simple question.


As for the hadith you should create new thread instead of going roundabout and bringing tropics like "watching porn"
Peace

Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: zakir on November 03, 2019, 08:56:03 AM
Dear seekingtruth1111, You said,

"And still you avoided the straight answer. How can you watch a porn by lowering your gaze?

Verses 24:30-31 clearly says not to look at private parts of others . How can you watch porn if you  follow 24:30-31 ?

Its a simple question.


As for the hadith you should create new thread instead of going roundabout and bringing tropics like "watching porn"
Peace"

My Reply,

I never avoided anything. As for looking porn by lowering gaze, if there is a will then there is a way. You can still watch porn by lowering the gaze. Simply look down and keep your phone on your thighs and then you can watch it. As for the Quran verses 24:30-31, Theses verses talk about only guarding the private parts and not looking.You should by now realize if you have an iota of intellect that the Quran is not sufficient to understand Islam. Allah(Swt) mentions about Hajj,Prayers,Zakath,Fasting but Allah (Swt) does not tell you in the Quran on how to perform them. If you are going to use your own opinion in trying to understand the Quran, then any tom and dick would interpret the Quran according to his/her whim. This is what is happening to the Quranist sect. Then Quranists have ten opinions of any given verse. May Allah guide you to the true Islam brother C.J Ahmed and I are in.
Title: Re: Muslim Imam says that watching pornography is halal
Post by: seekingtruth1111 on November 03, 2019, 09:24:40 AM
Dear seekingtruth1111, You said,

"And still you avoided the straight answer. How can you watch a porn by lowering your gaze?

Verses 24:30-31 clearly says not to look at private parts of others . How can you watch porn if you  follow 24:30-31 ?

Its a simple question.


As for the hadith you should create new thread instead of going roundabout and bringing tropics like "watching porn"
Peace"

My Reply,

I never avoided anything. As for looking porn by lowering gaze, if there is a will then there is a way. You can still watch porn by lowering the gaze. Simply look down and keep your phone on your thighs and then you can watch it. As for the Quran verses 24:30-31, Theses verses talk about only guarding the private parts and not looking.You should by now realize if you have an iota of intellect that the Quran is not sufficient to understand Islam. Allah(Swt) mentions about Hajj,Prayers,Zakath,Fasting but Allah (Swt) does not tell you in the Quran on how to perform them. If you are going to use your own opinion in trying to understand the Quran, then any tom and dick would interpret the Quran according to his/her whim. This is what is happening to the Quranist sect. Then Quranists have ten opinions of any given verse. May Allah guide you to the true Islam brother C.J Ahmed and I are in.

If that what you understand from that verse and you question others intelligence then I have nothing more to say here :) . Good luck with your porn watching.


Again instead of making new thread you are pushing your hadith agenda here. All those things has already been discussed in the forums many times. I