Free Minds

Critical Examination of Islam => Quranic Divinity => Topic started by: Someone12 on October 04, 2019, 09:49:29 PM

Title: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 04, 2019, 09:49:29 PM
Can someone here pls help me refute the claims made by this video https://youtu.be/8yMD99gyr14 most of his claims to me are like he is forcing his own meaning into verses but anyway this seem like the compilation  almost all the supposed scientific error in the Quran that the nonbelievers could come with, if we can refute this one then we would know for sure that the Quran has no scientific errors peace
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Wakas on October 05, 2019, 01:42:20 AM
You might want to use the forum search function. I'd be surprised if the issues raised have not been discussed before.

List (taken from video):
02:04 60. Stars are an adornment
02:45 59. Stars are missiles
03:48 58. Stars are near
04:48 57. Stars will fall down
06:14 56. Seven heavens
06:14 55. Seven earths
07:24 54. Allah brings the sun from the East
08:08 53. The Sun orbits the Earth
09:03 52. The Moon follows the Sun
09:32 51. Sun and Moon can't overtake each other
10:15 50. Sun and Moon will join
10:54 49. The Moon will darken
11:42 48. The Moon is a light
12:11 47. The Moon was split in two
13:11 46. Night rapidly chases the day
13:40 45. Night and day enter each other
14:15 44. The Night is a veil
15:36 43. Day, night, Sun, and Moon
16:37 42. The rising place of the Sun
17:09 41. The resting place of the Sun
18:59 40. The Sun sinks in a muddy spring
20:51 39. The Sun indicates shadows
22:02 38. No Southpole and Northpole
22:54 37. The sky has no rifts
23:46 36. The sky is a ceiling
24:17 35. The sky should have pillars
25:22 34. The sky would be stripped away
25:35 33. The sky could fall apart
26:00 32. The sky can be folded up
26:18 31. Sky and Earth were joined
27:22 30. Earth created before skies
28:23 29. The sky was smoke
29:02 28. Mountains placed into the Earth
29:53 27. Mountains prevent earthquakes
30:38 26. Mountains will be removed
31:07 25. You can't pass the skies
31:56 24. Altitude narrows chests
32:22 23. Allah drives clouds
33:07 22. Allah sends winds
33:50 21. Winds bring good tiding
34:32 20. Allah sends rain from the sky
36:01 19. Rainwater is pure water
36:38 18. Mountains of hail
37:06 17. Allah sends thunderbolts
37:56 16. Allah holds birds up
38:36 15. Allah steers ships
39:18 14. Barrier between seas
41:02 13. All life is in communities
42:03 12. Everything is in mates
42:46 11. Plants in pairs
42:46 10. Fruits in pairs
43:45 9. Milk form livestock is pure and agreeable
44:44 8. Milk between filth and blood
45:21 7. Sperm comes from backbone and ribs
46:35 6. Sperm = Human
47:36 5. Sex is determined later
49:16 4. Sperm becomes blood
49:56 3. Flesh forms after bones
50:50 2. 8 types of livestock
51:36 1. The Earth is flat (and the Whale)

Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 05, 2019, 07:28:45 AM
Not all of then have been given satisfactory answers, some have been discussed years ago and with new scientific advancement now we can better understand and answer it, like the one talking about mountains stabilizing the earth, and some have not been discussed here at all, that is why I made this post so that they can be addressed in the same place once and for all
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: imrankhawaja on October 06, 2019, 01:18:58 AM
i think (55 seven earths) topic is hardly discussed in recent past..

planets or the layers inside the earth ? or  CONTINENTS ..

Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Wakas on October 07, 2019, 02:11:09 AM
Perhaps you can help us out and highlight the ones that have not been covered before.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 09, 2019, 10:18:37 PM
No.60 to 57 for starters
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Wakas on October 10, 2019, 02:21:01 AM
peace someone12, all,

From my experience the people who claim various errors in Quran are usually poorly informed (e.g. inaccurate translation and/or Hadith-based translation) or biased (e.g. cherry-pick to present a certain slant to make it look like there is a problem). I had a debate one time with ex-Muslims about this, I'll see if I can find it later.

No.60 to 57 for starters

60) his argument is Quran does not go into the detail or accuracy he would like. He points out no error/contradiction whatsoever.

59) quote from Asad's translation of 67:5: "As regards the term rajm (pl. rujum), which literally denotes the "throwing [of something] like a stone" - i.e., at random - it is often used metaphorically in the sense of "speaking conjecturally" or "making [something] the object of guesswork" (Jawhari, Raghib - the latter connecting this metaphor explicitly with the above verse -, Lisan al-'Arab, Qamus, Taj al-'Arus, etc.). Cf. also 37:6."
Having said that, the other cited verses can have wide interpretation. I haven't looked into it personally, but Asad's interpretation seems a possibility.

58) goes by Hadith-based interpretation and cites no explicit Quran error/contradiction

57) again, goes by Hadith-based interpretation and/or Traditional tafsirs/explanations by choosing the meaning of "fall" when the root can mean otherwise:
From project root list:
Kaf-Dal-Ra = To be muddy, be obscure, lose light, fall.

inkadara vb. (7) perf. act. 81:2

LL, V7, p: 124, 125  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=kdr

#####

Remember, this guy claims to have only selected the strong/clear examples. No diligent student of Quran could ever consider the above examples as strong/clear. Sure for Traditional Muslims it may be a problem, but not Quran based muslims.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: imrankhawaja on October 10, 2019, 02:32:20 AM
WAKAS whats the justification of 7 EARTHS ?
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 02:43:24 AM
The 7 earth one can be many thing
A. Just like the 7 heavens are in layers the earth is also in layers

B. There are 7 planets like earth in the heavens or

C.since ard literally means land then maybe it means the are 7 lands or continents

Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: imrankhawaja on October 10, 2019, 03:05:58 AM
The 7 earth one can be many thing
A. Just like the 7 heavens are in layers the earth is also in layers

B. There are 7 planets like earth in the heavens or

C.since ard literally means land then maybe it means the are 7 lands or continents

A its not proveable one have to dig a hole till the end. although only 3 (crust, mantle and core) are well-known as yet.
B there are billions of planets in billions of galaxies in heavens
C continets desinged by people .. and also how to design the continents ?

Asia,Africa and Europe shared one big  land mass...
South and North America also shared one big land mass..
Australia , Greenland, Antartica shared the land on their own..

moreover new possible continent  Zealandia currently New zealand got lot of its land underwater what make geologists think its another continent.

where and how do we adjust 7 ? at its accurate.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 03:25:25 AM
A. It has been proven that the earth has multiple layers

B. I said planets like earth, maybe I could me the planets on the solar system or something but we can't know that.

C. The verse says the land is similar to the  7 heavens  so it can be any number close to 7 or even 7 itself, also the heavens were not always 7 but when the verse was revealed they were so the same can go for the lands, they just have to be 7 when the verse was  revealed, maybe there are even more that 7 heavens now still won't make what the Quran said about it being 7 at that time wrong

Or maybe the verse was not even comparing the numbers when it said similar, anyway if you want to check  if the Quran is true or not you should use verses that talk about things we have definite answers or idea on

Peace
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: imrankhawaja on October 10, 2019, 04:12:36 AM

anyway if you want to check  if the Quran is true or not you should use verses that talk about things we have definite answers or idea on



A is there is any proof of seven layers ?
B if we cant know then why author is telling us ?
C cherry picking ?

BOLD your thread is not about the verses that talks about absolute truth. on the contrary you wanted to talk on the issues which are not clear yet or possible scientific errors isnt it  ? lol

Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 04:50:29 AM
A. Who said anything about it being 7

B. We don't know about many things doesn't  mean we won't, just like the verse about stages of development how were the people then supposed to confirm that, but we can know can't we

C. This is a list of possible interpretation so 2 of I stated must be false

Maybe you need to read my first and second   
Posts
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 04:58:30 AM
What about no. 2, 13, 15,18,27,28
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: imrankhawaja on October 10, 2019, 06:08:53 AM
A. Who said anything about it being 7


hmm how many layers been proved then ?


What about no. 2, 13, 15,18,27,28


2 its not 8 livestocks again depend on what things you wana add in livestock to make it eight..

example pork, veal, beef, lamb, mutton, camel, ( fish & poultry ) for makin it 8 but again it depends how to classify the livestock..

13 not all life live in communities there are some popular animals who like to live on their own,  apart from mating or raising their young kids.. example leopard and polar bear..

15 "he causes the ships to float on sea" is similar to " he cause the leaf to fall from tree" (gravity and upward byoncy)

18
36:38 talking about motion of sun where did it comes from ?
although  i rechecked the video and he pointed towards 25:48 i did not see any mountain in the verse ?

27 & 28 there was a thread on it if i recall you may get all that information regarding that  issue.

most of the things are poorly interpreted by the up-loader.AND also things what does not make sense cannot possibly comes from God.



Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 11:09:30 AM
So won't that make the verses in no.2 and no.13 completely wrong
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 10, 2019, 02:33:25 PM
So doesn't anyone have anything more
to say about 59 and 13 I can find anyway to refute them myself   :brickwall:
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 11, 2019, 02:56:44 PM
Hello?
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Wakas on October 12, 2019, 02:48:25 AM
So doesn't anyone have anything more
to say about 59...

Did you bother to read my post (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610796.msg426845#msg426845)?

I'm trying to help you out but your posting style is not helping.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 12, 2019, 03:03:55 AM
I read your post that is why I said anything more...
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Noon waalqalami on October 12, 2019, 08:29:16 AM
So doesn't anyone have anything more
to say about 59 and 13 I can find anyway to refute them myself   :brickwall:

peace, nothing to refute; which word means stars in verse?

02:45 59.

67:5 ولقد and surely زىنا adorn we of السما the sky (f) الدنىا the world (f) بمصبىح bimasabiha/with torches (masculine pl.) وجعلنها and made we her/it/them (collective group is feminine) رجوما rujuman/??? of للشىاطىن for the devils/villains واعتدنا and prepares we of لهم for them عذب punishment السعىر the blaze

6:97 النجوم l-nujuma/the stars
25:61 سرجا sirajan/lamp of

what is best meaning رجوما rujuman/???

رَجْم (rajm) m (plural رُجُوم‎ (rujūm))
stoning
meteorites
projectiles
conjectures e.g. 18:22 … رجما rajman/conjecture/guess of بالغىب in the unseen


41:02 13.

having adaptive code does not nullify they are “like peoples" too.

6:38 وما and not من any دابه creature (i.e. species) فى in الارض the land ولا and not طىر flyer ىطىر flyed بجنحىه with wings two its الا except امم communities امثلكم likenesses you (pl.) ما not فرطنا neglect we of فى in الكتب the book من of شى thing ثم furthermore الى to ربهم lord theirs ىحشرون gathered being

6:39 والذىن and the ones كذبوا deny they of باىتنا in signs ours صم deaf وبكم and dumb فى in الظلمت the darkness من whom ىشا willed الله the god ىضلله misguided him ومن and who ىشا willed ىجعله maketh him على on صرط path مستقىم straight


Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Someone12 on October 12, 2019, 02:34:47 PM
Peace noon

Sorry I don't understand what you have written, for no.59 do you mean the "lamps" mentioned in it doesn't refer to stars, if so then what else can It refer to, star seems  to be what it is referring to because it say they beautify the nearest heaven and if they are lamps and also beautify that means we should be able to see them and they should be always there so imo the verse refer to stars

I understand understand what you are trying to say with the translation of rajam


13. I also don't understand what you are trying to say here too.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Noon waalqalami on October 12, 2019, 09:58:03 PM
peace someone, already showed everything necessary different words used, etc., up to you to study.

6:38-39 وما and not من any دابه dabbatin/creature (i.e. species) فى in الارض the land ولا and not طىر tairin/flyer ىطىر flyed بجنحىه with wings two its الا except امم umamun/communities امثلكم likenesses you (pl.) ما not فرطنا neglect we of فى in الكتب the book من of شى thing ثم furthermore الى to ربهم lord theirs ىحشرون gathered being والذىن and the ones كذبوا deny they of باىتنا in signs ours صم deaf وبكم and dumb فى in الظلمت the darkness من whom ىشا willed الله the god ىضلله misguided him ومن and who ىشا willed ىجعله maketh him على on صرط path مستقىم straight

6:97 وهو and he الذى the one جعل made لكم for you النجوم l-nujuma/the stars لتهتدوا to thou guided ye of بها by them فى in ظلمت darkness البر the dry land والبحر and the sea قد hence فصلنا explain we of الاىت the signs لقوم for folk ىعلمون knowing

25:61 تبرك blesseth الذى the one جعل made فى in السما the sky (f) بروجا burujan/constructs/constellations of
 وجعل and made فىها in her/it (f) سرجا sirajan/radiant lamp of (i.e. sun) وقمرا and moon of منىرا illuminate of

37:6 انا indeed we زىنا adorn we of السما l-samaa/the sky (f) الدنىا l-dunya/the world (f)
 بزىنه with adornment الكوكب l-kawakibi/the celestial objects (planets, galaxies, etc.)

67:5-6 ولقد and surely زىنا adorn we of السما l-samaa/the sky (f) الدنىا l-dunya/the world (f)
 بمصبىح bimasabiha/with torches (e.g. fiery asteroids, meteors, meteorites, comets, etc.)
 وجعلنها and made we them رجوما rujuman/conjectures of للشىاطىن for the devils/villains
 واعتدنا and prepares we of لهم for them عذب punishment السعىر the blaze
 وللذىن and for the ones كفروا reject they of بربهم in lord theirs عذب punishment جهنم abyss وبىس and wretched المصىر the destiny

videos capture exploding meteor in sky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Rx2PZ7C0c

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/17/vers/36?handschrift=107

(https://i.postimg.cc/y8hJcfrB/ch17v35-46.jpg)
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: The Sardar on June 23, 2020, 10:05:09 AM
There is a Qur'an Alone forum known as Muslim Villa and they have a section within a Topic:


http://muslimvilla.smfforfree.com/index.php?board=146.0

This is a rebuttal section against some of the claims which Wakas has shown us of the list. Although it responds to Answering Islam & WikiIslam claims.

I wonder if there is anyone else who can respond to this video.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: The Sardar on June 24, 2020, 01:26:36 PM
Someone should make a refutation against that video. Does anyone know someone has responded to this person's video?
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Rauf Murtuzov on June 24, 2020, 01:56:39 PM
Someone should make a refutation against that video. Does anyone know someone has responded to this person's video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_9VHixMOFs
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: The Sardar on June 24, 2020, 09:23:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_9VHixMOFs
Oh wow. I had no idea of this. Thank you brother Rauf. This will take some time.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: Rauf Murtuzov on June 25, 2020, 01:00:13 AM
Oh wow. I had no idea of this. Thank you brother Rauf. This will take some time.
You're welcome.
Do you want to watch them all?
There is a time stamp.
Title: Re: Refute Scientific error
Post by: The Sardar on June 25, 2020, 03:14:56 AM
I was mostly interested in the science refutation against Apostate Prophet but i did saved the video for "Watch Later".