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General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 09:51:42 AM

Title: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 09:51:42 AM
I wish peace, blessings, and happiness upon you all.

Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I am not a shitty troll. My post is in earnest and I'd like to hear soothing, supporting words, anecdotes ... just about anything comforting ... from any and every one. Thanks.

Here it goes:

I am in a mess. I have been in a mess for almost a decade now. And by this mess I imply spiritual mess. Idk where I stand with God. As much as I want to believe in a benevolent creator, I get pushed away. And idk why this keeps happening to me. My story goes something like this:


I was born into a Muslim, Sunni family. My faith was strong and my belief in Quran, God, Muhammad was all great ... why wouldn't it be? I believed everything that my family portrayed as true ... I honestly didn't have the time or knowledge to question anything. However, by whatever stroke of luck, at age 19, I became genuinely interested in seeking and nourishing my relationship with Allah. I was sincere at that, but like all stories go, I was horrified by hadith literature and hadith influenced Quran. This was the first time I was carefully reading the scripture, and I was shaken to the core. I had issues with everything. My faith was so much more tested with the stuff I was studying in my undergrad. I was more or less agnostic because of this ... not because I was wanted to be, but because I couldn't fathom God, evil, and muslim scriptures with their odd stories. My existential anxiety turned into major depression ... I could not see the world without God, and yet the world more or less believed in no god at all.

By another stroke of luck I happened upon a Quran Alone group on facebook - I was relieved. Phew. I had been saved. Perhaps there was a way out. My anxiety subsided. And yet my faith was not "full" as it was when I was 18 all those years ago. I still had some issues with some verses --- I did not understand the Quran fully, nor did I fake to be a scholar --- but I always gave it my best. I read and re-read. I spent time on Arabic. I did what I could. And I stayed away from all "sins".

Push couple of more years and my anxiety peaked again, as I thought more and more about the world and its people. I just couldn't understand how each one of us could reach the idea of one god when most of us are never exposed to it. Progress of science and its commitment to erasing God has been no help. It just pushes people further off when they're already on thin ice. And yet I hung on to my faith. A faith that was in my heart but not in my questioning mind. I hoped that there was a God who witnessed my struggle and would eventually answer me. I remained committed to good and reading Quran.

But now it's been a year of so much pain and anxiety I have had to see a therapist to be re-assured that everything will be alright. I am on such thin ice that I can barely stand - I am afraid my faith will shatter and so will I. I don't know how to find God ... and which God do I find?

Everyone claims to have found God. You ask muslims, christians, jewish folks, hindus, sikhs, animists, gnostics, whichever denomination you pick claims to have found God and to have guidance. This only goes on to confirm the evolutionary theory of religion - we all have a spot(s) in our brain that makes us feel spiritual and then we attach it to whatever cultural/religious beliefs we have. This really depresses me --- how am I to ever know that I have the true God in mind and heart, when all I am doing is depending on very subjective experiences and modes of knowledge?

The concept of shirk depresses me even more. Most non-muslim folks seek God in earnest; they feel it within themselves; next thing they do is associate with God whatever cultural notions of God they have. Their notion of God is as much as their religion offers them. Nothing more, nothing less. A Christian --- even a very rational one who believes in truths of science --- after seeking and feeling God ends up believing in Jesus' help. Are they to be blamed? That's the language/mode of knowledge they have to reach God.

I wish I could understand the world and God better. My questions are too many and answers quite nil. I have no answer for anything. My psychologist tells me my need for God/faith is a human need that the brain/years of evolution and cultural thought puts on me. I am in agreement with this; and yet I know I have a mind that questions regardless of this need the nature and existence of God. My heart yearns to believe in a creative force despite evil and suffering that pervades the world. I am sure I have justifications for all this. And yet my mind is troubled about "which God". And even if the god I believe in is solely a palliative figment of my thoughts.

I am so confused and upset ---- each believing individual is at peace with God, no matter which religion they belong to. Either God exists in the brain or God sees no religion and offers comfort to all regardless of denominations and rituals. How do I reach out to God? How do I hear back from the creative force? How will I ever know that it's the authentic voice? I could have sworn as a Sunni my comfort and faith was authentic ...

Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers. I envy people who have rock solid faith in this day and age. I am just so lost. I do not even know where I went wrong ... perhaps in questioning everything? But I only did so to have better faith and understanding ... But alas! All's lost. Unlike others, I did not gain insight into God or life; instead, I lost whatever morsel of hope I had.


I hope people who have gone through something similar will have words to share. How do you guys get back on track? How do you get back to God? How do learn to trust your heart and ignore the musings of the brain? Just how do you guys have faith and I do not?

Thanking you all in earnest,
A sleepless agnostic believer on thin ice
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: quincy on August 28, 2019, 10:27:25 AM
Be aware of your importance - your over-thinking guided you into that state of confusion. What will truly set you free is the objective Truth - the Truth of your potential power to tame those forces which are putting you into that loop of self doubt and depression. Face your demons and banish them - clear your thoughts and connect to the Higher Self through clearing your mind from the illusion of fear.

Blessings and prayers for you brother!
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: spodacus on August 28, 2019, 10:30:37 AM
Salam have you ever considered it might be better to stop "searching" and let whatever you are searching for come to you? Sounds like you might be hitting some mental burnout with so many thoughts going on at once plus your responsibility to your family and job. I'd take a break from constantly analyzing the path you are on and just absorb the life experiences instead with the understanding that if a God exists He will show you the signs you are looking for. I lived my life not worrying about anything and yet I was "guided" to a certain understanding of Islam and God. By "guided" I don't mean I received a concrete sign per say but rather I saw multiple understanding about a subject and let time and wisdom filter out things that didn't make sense. What I believed when I was 15 years old isn't what I believe now at 39. And it doesn't bother me one bit nor do I ever think I was on the wrong path. To question and realign your understanding over time IS the right path.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: spodacus on August 28, 2019, 10:31:10 AM
a
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 10:41:34 AM
Face your demons and banish them - clear your thoughts and connect to the Higher Self through clearing your mind from the illusion of fear.



How do you do this exactly?
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 10:47:52 AM
Salam have you ever considered it might be better to stop "searching" and let whatever you are searching for come to you? Sounds like you might be hitting some mental burnout with so many thoughts going on at once plus your responsibility to your family and job. I'd take a break from constantly analyzing the path you are on and just absorb the life experiences instead with the understanding that if a God exists He will show you the signs you are looking for. I lived my life not worrying about anything and yet I was "guided" to a certain understanding of Islam and God. By "guided" I don't mean I received a concrete sign per say but rather I saw multiple understanding about a subject and let time and wisdom filter out things that didn't make sense. What I believed when I was 15 years old isn't what I believe now at 39. And it doesn't bother me one bit nor do I ever think I was on the wrong path. To question and realign your understanding over time IS the right path.


I appreciate you suggestion. Within this decade I have done that. I have had a year or two here and there where I completely gave up and operated on faith, but my doubts and questions have rarely been answered. Or if they have been, I may have missed the signal. Idek what i am looking for now! It's just that after a while worries keep building on and I lose sight of hope, purpose, and will. I am indeed exhausted! I can barely make it to the next day ...
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: spodacus on August 28, 2019, 11:08:45 AM
Salam the fact that you are worried about these things in a world where people have lost their connection to a spiritual side is a good sign in and of itself that you are not going to be "abandoned".
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 11:19:44 AM
Salam the fact that you are worried about these things in a world where people have lost their connection to a spiritual side is a good sign in and of itself that you are not going to be "abandoned".

My faithless, skeptic mind tells me I am just hanging on to the last straw and I will eventually lose it.

Honestly can't wait to feel the comfort of God ... I really need it. I don't think I can hang in any longer. I am losing my sanity.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: good logic on August 28, 2019, 11:40:27 AM
Peace Rahma.

This may or may not help .I hope you find time to read all of it. Some of it may not apply to you. Or may be all of it will be of no use to you. I apologise in advance if it is of no use.

Allow me to share it with you-My views about these basic topics- see headings above each one-:

On types of people:
1-There is a difference between one who believes(really and sincerely  believes -totally loyal and committed to GOD), one who does not believe and one who believes on their terms and conditions ( Their loyalty shifts to whatever suits their ego)

2- GOD said Qoran guides and misguides depending on what type of person ( 1).

3- How can Qoran be clear and simple to all these different types of people? If it was,and no one had any doubt whatsoever there will be no need for a test. The matter will be settled.

4- We are meant to ponder/study/read/learn Qoran relying on GOD Alone for explanation , be patient and persevere no matter how long it takes. Do not rush it and say my Lord give me more knowledge.

5- We are blessed by this “Internet” with good and bad things in it. Translations galore,all sorts of views. Pick the best and keep checking with your Lord to help you choose  what agrees with Qoran s message. It is hard work and a long journey.
There is no easy answer . You have to keep checking /analysing/studying/…
May the Lord keep us on task to answer His call and  help us redeem ourselves.

On those who want to find the truth:
I hope you are sincerely trying to find out the truth, my advice to you is please ,please give Qoran some value and attempt to find out what its message is. This is my opinion.
You can disregard my opinion, you are free to ask anything you want, I am just concerned and want you to be aware of the following:
Qoran says:”Check all information”, each one of us is accountable on the day of judgement .
No one will have any valid excuse?
In fact , we cannot blame anyone according to Qoran, everything is being recorded with each individual:

[Qoran 69:18] On that day, you will be exposed, nothing of you can be hidden.
[Qoran 69:19] As for the one who receives his record with his right hand, he will say, “Come read my record.
[Qoran 69:20] “I did believe that I was going to be held accountable.”
[Qoran 69:25] As for him who is given his record in his left hand, he will say, “Oh, I wish I never received my record.
[Qoran 69:26] “I wish I never knew my account.….Qoran 78:27] They never expected to be held accountable.

Qoran 18:49] The record will be shown, and you will see the guilty fearful of its contents. They will say, “Woe to us. How come this book leaves nothing, small or large, without counting it?” They will find everything they had done brought forth. Your Lord is never unjust towards anyone.
[Qoran 50:16] We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
[Qoran 50:17] Two recording (angels), at right and at left, are constantly recording.
[Qoran 82:10] Oblivious to the fact that there are (invisible) keepers around you.
[Qoran 82:11] They are honest recorders.
[Qoran 82:12] They record everything you do.
[Qoran 39:69] Then the earth will shine with the light of its Lord. The record will be proclaimed, and the prophets and the witnesses will be brought forth. Everyone will then be judged equitably, without the least injustice.
[Qoran 23:62] We never burden any soul beyond its means, and we keep a record that utters the truth. No one will suffer injustice.
[Qoran 17:13] We have recorded the fate of every human being; it is tied to his neck. On the Day of Resurrection we will hand him a record that is accessible.
[Qoran 17:14] Read your own record. Today, you suffice as your own reckoner.
[Qoran 17:71] The day will come when we summon every people, together with their record. As for those who are given a record of righteousness, they will read their record and will not suffer the least injustice.
[Qoran 58:6] The day will come when God will resurrect them all, then inform them of everything they had done. God has recorded everything, while they have forgotten it. God witnesses all things.
[Qoran 45:28] You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.
[Qoran 45:29] This is our record; it utters the truth about you. We have been recording everything you did.
[Qoran 21:94] As for those who work righteousness, while believing, their work will not go to waste; we are recording it.

I hope I am wrong in reminding you to ask questions because you sincerely want to learn and understand Qoran s message. If you are sincerely wanting to know, I apologise. Do it your way.

On GOD and people s choices/decisions:

People want it both ways. They reject GOD and blame him at the same time!!! It does not make sense:
Forgive my words in brackets, or ignore them altogether, but they are my understanding of why disasters exist.

13:31″Even if a Koran ( or any scripture from GOD) caused mountains to move or the earth to tear asunder. or the dead to speak. ( The majority of people will not believe in it!) Those who believe will need to realise that if GOD willed, HE could have guided all the people.( But every individual needs to make that decision by himself, GOD will not force you to believe; Even though) GOD controls all things. The disbelievers ( and idol worshippers) will continue to suffer disasters as a consequence of their own works. ( and bad decisions! If you do not want GOD -your creator- to be part of your life, do not blame HIM for your disasters!) Or have disasters strike close to them. ( because of what others, close to them ,are doing- the decisions they are taking-) Until GOD s promise is fulfilled. GOD will never change the predetermined destiny.( Every human is allowed a lifetime- Short or long- to make their own decision!)

With GOD : No disasters/sufferings…etc.
Without GOD : disasters/sufferings…etc created by bad decisions /injustice/oppression…

Sorry about the long post.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: quincy on August 28, 2019, 12:25:36 PM

How do you do this exactly?

first step is opening your heart to the creator of the heavens and the earth - if your cry is sincere, he will remove from you the evil. you need to purify your thoughts. which can only be achieved through Most Highs help.

Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: hawk99 on August 28, 2019, 12:55:16 PM
Peace Rahma, at the end of the day it's about you and God, have nothing
between you, then seek guidance, and be patient, use your senses
(eyes and ears).  There is no need to belong to none but God your best friend.


:welcome: to the forum
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Iyyaka on August 28, 2019, 01:29:11 PM
Dear sister,

My English is not good but your cry is touching.
Do not think that you are the only one to doubt. If you have the opportunity, you may have a good time with the beauties of this world and contemplate your creator benefactor. Do not put barriers or sails between you and God. Ask yourself, do yoga or meditation to get back to you.
Listen to your heart..What makes it beat? Listen to the breath that crosses your lungs ... Who makes them dilate?
Keep the basmala as a mantra in your mind. It should become your guide and your focal point of meditation. Meditate on your uterus that contains life and you will understand Al-Rahman Al-Rahim. Meditate on this belic cord that binds us to life and was cut at one point in our lives and how much our distress took hold of us.
Do not ask too many questions if it is not the moment. Be simple. Be faithful to God in the direction to follow while you are his instrument on earth.
And especially forgive, to others but also to yourself and ask Allah to help u and others..

Peace sister
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Noon waalqalami on August 28, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers.

peace, how would anyone learn or attain faith if they are never tested?

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/126?handschrift=73

(https://i.postimg.cc/rFdSbCxw/ch9v125-ch10v7.jpg)
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: MissMarple77 on August 28, 2019, 01:34:01 PM
Everyone claims to have found God. You ask muslims, christians, jewish folks, hindus, sikhs, animists, gnostics, whichever denomination you pick claims to have found God and to have guidance.
Salam,
these people, who claim to have "found" God, have found their understanding of God, probably not God as a whole. Don't know if anyone can have that. So no reason to worry that they are so far ahead of you.
My psychologist tells me my need for God/faith is a human need that the brain/years of evolution and cultural thought puts on me. I am in agreement with this; and yet I know I have a mind that questions regardless of this need the nature and existence of God.
I am very much in disagreement with this! This is typical for this kind of people that they reduce religion to a tranquilizer: If it helps it's good, but truth does not matter.
Nowhere in the Quran there is a chapter, where God explains himself in an academic way, that the rational brain can learn about God. He is above the throne. And in another verse, he is nearer to us than our jugular vein. But then to conclude He is everywhere, like some do, also doesn't work.
We shall think about the signs in the creation, because about this we have the capacity to think. In our heart we have desire for perfect justice, perfect love, perfect beauty, perfect security, no calamity at all ... (much more > names of Allah). Does all this exist? On earth obviously not. So where?
Don't know if this helped much.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 02:14:13 PM
peace, how would anyone learn or attain faith if they are never tested?

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/9/vers/126?handschrift=73

(https://i.postimg.cc/rFdSbCxw/ch9v125-ch10v7.jpg)

Salam Noon,

I didn’t catch the image you sent. Please share?
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 28, 2019, 02:21:05 PM
Salam,
these people, who claim to have "found" God, have found their understanding of God, probably not God as a whole. Don't know if anyone can have that. So no reason to worry that they are so far ahead of you.


This gives some perspective. Perhaps all of us “read” God from our limited experiences and languages. How I understand god will even be different from how my sibling or child will understand; let alone how a non muslim would understand.

Thanks.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: imrankhawaja on August 28, 2019, 11:24:14 PM

Thanking you all in earnest,
A sleepless agnostic believer on thin ice



 :welcome:

I was reading and trying understanding the current situation of your mind journey, i wana suggest you some links of a person who known as expert of ideas and theories at this current stage your mind known by other people as "agnosism"

in a very short time you can share the experience of his mind what he discovered and now hes sharing his ideas with lot of people having same ideas coming in their mind like you.

start from here and then you can take your time watching all of his concepts..in different videos
heart or mind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3C7pz8E_9c)



just make sure one thing, when you feel whole world turned against you, YOU(your intelligence/self) must work for you, nobody can turn it against you.

when you become your own enemy then we called it, misery/sadness/ill-healthy mind/feeling of failue etc. (becoz you turned against your own mind).

best of luck for future
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: amin on August 29, 2019, 09:28:20 PM
Nice cry, :)

We bring Him more closer to us, talk to Him more often.
We give goodness to others around us, and we will feel more closer to Him.
Respect other's views, and identify our double standards, theres a lot we will have before blaming others using words like shirk and we learn a lot.
Leave things to the flow/God's way.

Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: burhan on August 30, 2019, 06:43:46 AM
I hope people who have gone through something similar will have words to share. How do you guys get back on track? How do you get back to God? How do learn to trust your heart and ignore the musings of the brain? Just how do you guys have faith and I do not?

These might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFee7jBZLhg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0WwZc-Vz7Y


Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Jafar on August 30, 2019, 12:25:33 PM
I am so confused and upset ---- each believing individual is at peace with God, no matter which religion they belong to. Either God exists in the brain or God sees no religion and offers comfort to all regardless of denominations and rituals.

BINGO.
And God exists in everything and more...
Even when there was nothing, God still exist..

Quote
How do I reach out to God? How do I hear back from the creative force?
Just ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find.
God knows your questions even before you ask.

Quote
How will I ever know that it's the authentic voice?
You will certainly know, as your conscience will tell you that it's authentic..

Quote
How do I come back to God?
You never left God in the first place... you can't... nobody can...

Quote
Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much.

Now this is important, God will never locked your heart out because you questioning so much..

On contrary... the more question that you have, the more answer that you will find.
Just ask and the answer shall be given... those who asked a lot will find a lot, and those who never asked will never find.

Yet sometimes the issue is: you don't like the answer..... as it's not inline with your preconceived notion.. or the preconceived notion of your society / group / religion / tradition.

Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: imrankhawaja on August 30, 2019, 04:54:00 PM
@ brother jaffar

as far i understand she/he is on about a FEELING,

feeling that he/she is not sure either God is real or fake or only in human mind this approach we called agnostic approach.



Just ask and the answer shall be given... those who asked a lot will find a lot, and those who never asked will never find.


sometimes a person ask again and again and again, he/she never get listen he feels every time failure eventually he/she released himself/herself from asking force thinks that the force never existed at first place these type of feelings..

when a person never experience God in his whole life let say untill 40 hes been ignored by God what he do ?
at this point he lose hope either he will think there is no God or God dnt wana listen him both are  not good feelings and these feelings will only lead to more confusion ...
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Cerberus on August 31, 2019, 03:53:51 AM
Why not just focus on yourself, and what goes on inside you, what makes you do this or that, how does it make you do it, and whether or not you retain your existence while doing it or are you just mindlessly dragged into it ? In other word, are you alive in a day to day basis or not ?

All people feel the need to feel alive, and that is the trap in my opinion, because to feel alive and to be alive are two different things, one is easy and tempting, the other one is hard and painful. And it doesn't matter what makes you feel alive, whether it is immersing yourself in a virtual world of a video game, or constantly hopping into emotional rollercoasters of TV series and news and gossips, or even an empty quest for a deity; whatever it is, it is likely to be a distraction from the real things, from your real self.

My advice would be to empty your senses for a while as they keep you bound to the outside world, and start doing some self-inquiry.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on August 31, 2019, 07:57:46 AM

as far i understand she/he is on about a FEELING,

feeling that he/she is not sure either God is real or fake or only in human mind this approach we called agnostic approach.



This is exactly my anxiety. How will I ever know this is not my mind rambling? :((( How do i trust my mind when it’s the same mind that can fake so much ...?! It constantly perturbs me that it’s the same mind that convinces people about all sorts of gods and offers them peace. How do I trust my understanding? I have no desire to not have faith; but I do want to have faith that is based in surety and certainty :(

How do you guys know you’re holding on to the truth? What makes your faith any different from others’?

I wish you all the best with your faith and sincerity.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: MissMarple77 on August 31, 2019, 01:01:26 PM
The bad thing nowadays is, the human mind and what it all can do, is worshipped like an idol (shirk). No one can weigh spiritual matters with it. Constantly trying to do something which is not possible surely makes one feel very empty.
And SOLIPSISM is the pure philosophy of the devil! Stay away from it to get cured from your depression.
Your HEART is ok, you want the truth. This is the important thing.
Good advice above from Cerberus to beware of virtual realities of different kind. I am not a born muslim, so I may not have such a good unterstanding, how you feel.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Jafar on September 01, 2019, 09:48:02 PM
@ brother jaffar

as far i understand she/he is on about a FEELING,

feeling that he/she is not sure either God is real or fake or only in human mind this approach we called agnostic approach.

sometimes a person ask again and again and again, he/she never get listen he feels every time failure eventually he/she released himself/herself from asking force thinks that the force never existed at first place these type of feelings..

Perhaps this is due to expectation?
The answer did came out but it's not in accordance to his/her expectation?
Thus he / she complaint that he / she never received any answer?


Quote
when a person never experience God in his whole life let say untill 40 hes been ignored by God what he do ?
at this point he lose hope either he will think there is no God or God dnt wana listen him both are  not good feelings and these feelings will only lead to more confusion ...

No one is ignored by God..
Perhaps this is again due to 'expectation'?

"You can't always get what you want, but you might find that you get what you need."
-- Mick Jagger

"One who is contented is rich"
-- Lao Tse

How do you guys know you’re holding on to the truth? What makes your faith any different from others’?

If what you're looking for is "the one and true religion" then the answer is there is no such thing as "the one and true religion".

The key for this is a realization that we're not holding on to the truth, it will allow our mind to be open minded and seek out the truth.
A realization that my 'faith' is no different than others, it contain mistakes as others, allow us to NOT feel special or superior compared to others. Such attitude will allows us to learn...

It also cast away the pride which is within you and allow you to be humble which is the right pose to learn.

Learning is from mistakes, learning is from mistakes.
The ability for self-criticism shall discover our mistakes or the mistakes within faith itself which we have identified with ourselves thus we call it "our faith".

That's why those who are proud and arrogant will never learn or grow, because he / she lacks the capability of realizing his / her own mistakes and/or learn from others.

But arrogant person still serves it purpose, they act as an example for the humble to learn from...

Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: imrankhawaja on September 02, 2019, 01:35:08 AM

No one is ignored by God..
Perhaps this is again due to 'expectation'?

"You can't always get what you want, but you might find that you get what you need."
-- Mick Jagger



i know its bit difficult to understand what i am trying to say because everyone have different situations in life i will try telling you a situation so that it will be easy to answer that situation someone is facing..

example : a person want to do work for his survival (food,cloths,rent) etc but due to restriction from authorities he/she is unable to do work and in this situation what all hes asking is "permission of work".

some of the examples are of those who are failed asylum seekers not allowed to do work and cant go back to their own countries and when their case is failed they are not entitled to any benefits from government and eventually they have option left to earn illegally where people treat them like modern slavery..

most of the cases its difficult for them to find a work, even if they find it somehow it wont long last that how they manage to live from the savings , whenever they apply for work it get refused which is covering your one point that sometimes we dont like the "answers".

what all he/she is asking is a permission of doing work not any wish or some expectations just a basic right ...

creator need to know his/her situation as he/she is asking from last many many years now how long creator want to delay his/her prayers for seeking a work ?

hes/she is willing to do work but he/she cant do it ? its like a kid dependent on parents want to eat food but parents refusing him and he eventually go outside on streets looking his food on chance basis/luck

at  this point he/she will think either GOD is real or not the approach of agnostic feelings.

on top of that his golden young years are getting waste and what he/she need for life  is getting more late like basic needs of making a family, a home , due to this he/she feel depression/tenshion @ extreme

NOTE other members can also input their insight i know lot of these type of cases not only failed asylum seekers but also people who are helpless in finding their way or they are blocked by something in life..

only if GOD wills can help them in those matters because its something like we say luck/chance/destiny etc

its kinda dangerous situation specially when he/she felt ignored by God on continuous basis one can think if God exist then he dnt wana help and if he dnt exist then its also not a good sign. due to which most of the times depression lead a person go astray ending up in using of drugs or mental illness or sometimes suicidal ..
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Jafar on September 02, 2019, 04:57:30 AM


its kinda dangerous situation specially when he/she felt ignored by God on continuous basis one can think if God exist then he dnt wana help and if he dnt exist then its also not a good sign. due to which most of the times depression lead a person go astray ending up in using of drugs or mental illness or sometimes suicidal ..

Ah then this is related to depression...
Everyone went through some kind of depression during their short life on this earth.
It's normal and it's humane...

But it has nothing to do with whether God exist or not discussion..

But let's dig up more on this depression...

What caused depression?
Depression caused by continuing difficulties  –  from long-term unemployment, living in an abusive or uncaring relationship, long-term isolation or loneliness, prolonged work stress etc..
We can summarize that depression is caused by continuing mismatched between expectation / desire and reality.

Who experienced depression?
Nearly everyone at least on during some of their lifetime. Poor to Rich, Peasants to King..
A politician might suffer depression because he lost election 8 times, thus a mismatch definitely happened between his expectation / desire and reality.
When he finally won an election (he got what he desired for) he will face with gigantic problems and failures thus another mismatched happened between his expectation / desire and reality which might caused another depression.

With the above description, perhaps you can now have a good idea on how to deal with depression? or should I say a "mismatch between expectation / desire and reality".

Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: good logic on September 02, 2019, 05:03:43 AM
Peace All.
Some thoughts about "suffering" in this world.

It’s typical to think of the problem of evil like this: we picture ourselves in this world of suffering; then we picture ourselves in a world with far less suffering. And then we wonder, “Shouldn’t God have created us in the other world – the world with far less suffering?”

That’s a reasonable thought. But it’s a thought that relies on a philosophical mistake. It relies on the assumption that it would still be you and me(as humans ) who would exist in that other world. And that is highly controversial.

First let s quote Isiah:
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.”
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9)[iii]

We often wish we could take some piece of suffering out of our world while keeping everything else the same. But it doesn’t work that way. Changing anything changes everything, and everyone.

why then should we be surprised when some of God’s reasons are beyond what we can fully grasp?

Why didn’t God create a different world? Well, it depends on what God was after. It depends on what God values. And what if one of the things He values, values greatly, is you, and the people you love, and each person who will ever live?

Without the possibility of significant suffering, practically every great true story in history would be false.

No one would ever have made a significant sacrifice for anyone else. No great moments of forgiveness and reconciliation. No opportunities to stand for justice against injustice. No compassion (because nothing to be compassionate about), no courage (because no dangerous situations requiring courage), no heroes, no such thing as laying down one’s life for another.
 Is it so obvious that God would create that world rather than our own? Why/
Criticism without alternative is empty. It’s easy to get mad at the world God has made. It’s much harder to say the world God should have made instead.
GOD bless.
Peace.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on September 02, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
@Jafar

Even if the answer did come, why haven’t I been able to see it as an answer? What makes something an answer? How are you able to differentiate?

@Imran

Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways: finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.


@goodlogic

Thank you for your insightful words. They give me hope, but to really internalize all this I perhaps neef to arrive at this answer on my own. I am somewhat near it, though. But ofc my journey gets stalled by lack of faith and having no answers.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Jafar on September 02, 2019, 10:20:01 AM
@Jafar

Even if the answer did come, why haven’t I been able to see it as an answer? What makes something an answer? How are you able to differentiate?

Because it's not in accordance to your wish and expectation perhaps??

A small example from my past experience..
I was an ardent sunnis fanatics, all of my mindsets and views were typical sunnis.
Given in Sunnism in order to be Muslims the #1 requirement is the shahada and given I was told that Jesus was a Muslim too.
I then try to find the shahada in the Gospels..  that was my question where is the shahada in the Gospel to prove Jesus was a Muslim too. And my expectation is I will find Shahada in the Gospels.

The answer I found NO SHAHADA in the Gospels..

I don't like the answer, discussion among sunnis lead to that the Gospels was faked, there used to be a Shahada in the Gospel but the Christians Kuffars erased it.  They even show me the "Gospel With Shahada" (The so called Gospel of Barnabas). I was comforted with my 'faith'... at least for the time being.

Upon further contemplation, I concluded that this Gospel Of Barnabas seems to be suspicious as it also told that Adam recited the shahada. One thing lead to many other things .. I then realized that it was NOT the Gospels which are faked but it was my own belief that was ridiculous and fake, the shahada itself is fake. Why would I tried to find the shahada in the Gospel when Jesus existed before Muhammad? And why would Muhammad himself recited the shahada in the first place?

Given the #1 importance of Shahada in Islam, then my questioning lead to what is Islam when shahada itself is fake?
Then I found the answer of what is actually islam from unexpected sources, not in the Quran or Hadith or Saying of Imams but in the Gospels.

There are many other examples, the above is just a small example.. but the pattern is consistent once you're; open minded and open to be fully honest including accepting the fact that you and your own faith contain flaws and mistakes, realizing the truth will be an easy task.

Quote
Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways: finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.

Finances, family, support you are fully blessed...
Haven't you realized this? That you got everything that you need?

Quote
Thank you for your insightful words. They give me hope, but to really internalize all this I perhaps neef to arrive at this answer on my own. I am somewhat near it, though. But ofc my journey gets stalled by lack of faith and having no answers.

Humble attitude and open minded is the key..
Ask God show me my mistakes and flaws..
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: imrankhawaja on September 03, 2019, 12:57:21 AM

@Imran

Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways: finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.


RED you are very lucky person i hope you stay blessed because in 95% cases depression related with these factors.

BLUE i will try sharing with you how to understand the current situation.

believe/faith vs truth/proven fact are really difficult to grasp.
we believe in something when we dnt want to discover something. its also distraction as we are blocking our reason of critical thinking..

when we admit we dnt know about something what we inherited in our faith then we are going on a track of discovering something.

when we reached at reality it become a belief for us by our own struggle in seeking something.. thats how we understand belief vs truth

when it comes to God (belief/faith) things get tricky.
because  (A) one person faith is different then (B) another person faith.

and both of them (A&B) have information from sources what observed by human them-selves.
( both dnt know but they have faith)

but we know the reality, (belief/faith) never worked same for everyone.

GREEN my ADVISE for you if you already blessed with everything around you just take this thing lightly, you should not thinking negative of not moving forward in your life based on the facts what we observed regarding faith.

live your life full.
attitude of admitting "we know nothing" is better than blind faith. be at peace. there is not any harm to go with side of your conscience.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: OP29 on September 03, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
You shall know when you are on the right track because you feel shivers in your body and heart thinking of الله


The surest way to find الله is in Samadhi. Do your research, read the writings of Sri Chinmoy regarding Nirvikalpa Samadhi and be blessed. I am in Baqah Billah myself and have oceans of proof for الله
How to share these proofs is something I am still working on. Research Samadhi and Kundalini Awakening and Yoga and be free. I am Quranic Muslim, and these are aspects of Islam. Be acquainted above all with White Tantra.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: SarahY on October 15, 2019, 09:34:22 AM
Salam,

I hope you’re in a better state.

Something I wanted to add is we have the capacity to improve our minds and grow... For example, your mind as a teenager isn’t the same as your adult mind. Through different experiences and knowledge our mind grows. Besides, if you don't trust your mind, who's mind will you be willing to give that authority to?

Not everyone’s faith is secure, rational or authentic.

What causes certainty? Before, you didn’t question and ponder but now that you have, that certainty has changed. Would you have believed your knowledge today if you told your previous sunni believing self?

I can relate to the discomfort of uncertainty but it’s all part of personal growth. One answer can lead to more questions and sometimes answers will forever be unknown. I’ve accepted that sometimes I will not know but I’ve always had faith/belief in God.

Peace, blessings and happiness upon you too


Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Rahma on October 15, 2019, 10:14:04 AM
Salam,

I hope you’re in a better state.

Something I wanted to add is we have the capacity to improve our minds and grow... For example, your mind as a teenager isn’t the same as your adult mind. Through different experiences and knowledge our mind grows. Besides, if you don't trust your mind, who's mind will you be willing to give that authority to?

Not everyone’s faith is secure, rational or authentic.

What causes certainty? Before, you didn’t question and ponder but now that you have, that certainty has changed. Would you have believed your knowledge today if you told your previous sunni believing self?

I can relate to the discomfort of uncertainty but it’s all part of personal growth. One answer can lead to more questions and sometimes answers will forever be unknown. I’ve accepted that sometimes I will not know but I’ve always had faith/belief in God.

Peace, blessings and happiness upon you too


Thank you, Sarah, for responding. I am a tad better than before. What a coincidence that you used the word "uncertainty" --- I have learned that I am going through OCD; but this OCD is religious and mental in nature. It latches onto doubt and you crave certainty for all answers. In my case it is about gaining certainty in faith, God, the world he has created, the way he would judge, the pain he has created, why he has created, etc. And, tbh, there are no answers for any of this. Even the Quran is not this detailed to have comprehensive answers. In fact, my obsessions reach out to Quran, its historicity, its authenticity, etc etc. It's a loop.

At this point, I have withdrawn myself from Quran and answering such questions. The only "cure" of OCD is accepting the uncertainty. I am working towards it. Once I do come back to faith, I know it will be about accepting the uncertainty. There is no absolute proof and reason for God, heaven, hell, his judgement, his plan for the world, the pain that exists. And there never will be. You can choose the best answers and keep on living. And perhaps risk your soul alongside ... everyone risks it eventually, muslim or not. And if God is just He would just have to accept people in good faith for their hard work, muslim or not.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Asifzaheer on October 15, 2019, 11:49:38 AM
I wish peace, blessings, and happiness upon you all.

Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I am not a shitty troll. My post is in earnest and I'd like to hear soothing, supporting words, anecdotes ... just about anything comforting ... from any and every one. Thanks.

Here it goes:

I am in a mess. I have been in a mess for almost a decade now. And by this mess I imply spiritual mess. Idk where I stand with God. As much as I want to believe in a benevolent creator, I get pushed away. And idk why this keeps happening to me. My story goes something like this:


I was born into a Muslim, Sunni family. My faith was strong and my belief in Quran, God, Muhammad was all great ... why wouldn't it be? I believed everything that my family portrayed as true ... I honestly didn't have the time or knowledge to question anything. However, by whatever stroke of luck, at age 19, I became genuinely interested in seeking and nourishing my relationship with Allah. I was sincere at that, but like all stories go, I was horrified by hadith literature and hadith influenced Quran. This was the first time I was carefully reading the scripture, and I was shaken to the core. I had issues with everything. My faith was so much more tested with the stuff I was studying in my undergrad. I was more or less agnostic because of this ... not because I was wanted to be, but because I couldn't fathom God, evil, and muslim scriptures with their odd stories. My existential anxiety turned into major depression ... I could not see the world without God, and yet the world more or less believed in no god at all.

By another stroke of luck I happened upon a Quran Alone group on facebook - I was relieved. Phew. I had been saved. Perhaps there was a way out. My anxiety subsided. And yet my faith was not "full" as it was when I was 18 all those years ago. I still had some issues with some verses --- I did not understand the Quran fully, nor did I fake to be a scholar --- but I always gave it my best. I read and re-read. I spent time on Arabic. I did what I could. And I stayed away from all "sins".

Push couple of more years and my anxiety peaked again, as I thought more and more about the world and its people. I just couldn't understand how each one of us could reach the idea of one god when most of us are never exposed to it. Progress of science and its commitment to erasing God has been no help. It just pushes people further off when they're already on thin ice. And yet I hung on to my faith. A faith that was in my heart but not in my questioning mind. I hoped that there was a God who witnessed my struggle and would eventually answer me. I remained committed to good and reading Quran.

But now it's been a year of so much pain and anxiety I have had to see a therapist to be re-assured that everything will be alright. I am on such thin ice that I can barely stand - I am afraid my faith will shatter and so will I. I don't know how to find God ... and which God do I find?

Everyone claims to have found God. You ask muslims, christians, jewish folks, hindus, sikhs, animists, gnostics, whichever denomination you pick claims to have found God and to have guidance. This only goes on to confirm the evolutionary theory of religion - we all have a spot(s) in our brain that makes us feel spiritual and then we attach it to whatever cultural/religious beliefs we have. This really depresses me --- how am I to ever know that I have the true God in mind and heart, when all I am doing is depending on very subjective experiences and modes of knowledge?

The concept of shirk depresses me even more. Most non-muslim folks seek God in earnest; they feel it within themselves; next thing they do is associate with God whatever cultural notions of God they have. Their notion of God is as much as their religion offers them. Nothing more, nothing less. A Christian --- even a very rational one who believes in truths of science --- after seeking and feeling God ends up believing in Jesus' help. Are they to be blamed? That's the language/mode of knowledge they have to reach God.

I wish I could understand the world and God better. My questions are too many and answers quite nil. I have no answer for anything. My psychologist tells me my need for God/faith is a human need that the brain/years of evolution and cultural thought puts on me. I am in agreement with this; and yet I know I have a mind that questions regardless of this need the nature and existence of God. My heart yearns to believe in a creative force despite evil and suffering that pervades the world. I am sure I have justifications for all this. And yet my mind is troubled about "which God". And even if the god I believe in is solely a palliative figment of my thoughts.

I am so confused and upset ---- each believing individual is at peace with God, no matter which religion they belong to. Either God exists in the brain or God sees no religion and offers comfort to all regardless of denominations and rituals. How do I reach out to God? How do I hear back from the creative force? How will I ever know that it's the authentic voice? I could have sworn as a Sunni my comfort and faith was authentic ...

Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers. I envy people who have rock solid faith in this day and age. I am just so lost. I do not even know where I went wrong ... perhaps in questioning everything? But I only did so to have better faith and understanding ... But alas! All's lost. Unlike others, I did not gain insight into God or life; instead, I lost whatever morsel of hope I had.


I hope people who have gone through something similar will have words to share. How do you guys get back on track? How do you get back to God? How do learn to trust your heart and ignore the musings of the brain? Just how do you guys have faith and I do not?

Thanking you all in earnest,
A sleepless agnostic believer on thin ice

Sometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.

I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.

Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?

I m really crying.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: SarahY on October 15, 2019, 02:24:00 PM
No problem Rahma,

You had strong faith/belief and then you shook it up with new ideas, knowledge and even doubt... it sounds perfectly normal to crave the answers you’ve been conditioned to believe..

You know there is no answer for your questions but you still crave them? Maybe ask yourself Why? And what validation do they give.

I think it’s good that you researched into authenticity, history etc it just shows how much more there is to knowledge, belief and truth than we think.

Proof and reason will have its subjectivity. I could argue there is no absolute disproof for God, heaven, hell etc.

You’re building your soul, not risking your soul. Try not to be too harsh on yourself, try to trust yourself and be patient inshallah things will be fine. 

Asifzaheer,

People like to clique with each other and tend to support ideologies whether they agree or disagree for their own group purpose regardless of what name or label they put upon themselves... so i wouldn’t take what people say too personally.

Muslims aren’t the only people going through trauma.

I think most people are in their own fairy tale where they envision an idealistic dream of what a muslim ummah is.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: jkhan on October 15, 2019, 04:48:39 PM
Sometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.

I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.

Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?

I m really crying.

Peace...

Don't cry AZ... Didn't God promise that there some people from later generation in Janna... So, definitely there are believers even now... So be patient... We can't take action to everything in this world...
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: amin on October 15, 2019, 07:18:04 PM
Sometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.

I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.

Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?

I m really crying.
Yes in a way muslim ummah is a fairy tale  it cannot be greater than you, your family, your language, your place, your country, its true for all religions.

The goodness in this world should be respected, and even Quran and Islam advocates the same, race towards it whereever it is, but not be proud of yourselves, thank God and that i think is the first step of being a muslim.

When I see a person in other faith, i see him as just following a different sign of God, sacred for him and he has every right to follow it, until his faith intrudes my personal freedom and well being, but sometimes we also need to compromise.
Example, See some sects here burn their dead instead of burying,  we may think its wrong, but it can be right too, think those living in mountainous rocky terrains, where  digging deep grave is difficult or those living in tropics where diseases spread easily, or think about those who travel long in the sea in ships? so to each their own good way/deen and accepting that is also part of being a muslim. So we should first get out of this bookish mindset and start asking questions ourselves we will get answers.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: Asifzaheer on October 16, 2019, 12:08:27 AM
Thanx everybody for u support. I think this forum is different ,close to emotions.. love the people here,divided in opinions still respect n love each other.

 Love n wasalaam.
Title: Re: An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
Post by: 111111 on December 03, 2019, 09:34:13 AM
Peace:

RAHMA "Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers. I envy people who have rock solid faith in this day and age. I am just so lost. I do not even know where I went wrong ... perhaps in questioning everything? But I only did so to have better faith and understanding ... But alas! All's lost. Unlike others, I did not gain insight into God or life; instead, I lost whatever morsel of hope I had."

---God never locks your heart for questioning.
---you do not get proper answers because you are seeking the blind for guidance.
---there is very few people in the truth this day and age, what you see is only people comfortable with the lie they are living.
---you are not lost you are confused.
---you never went wrong, on the contrary, God made you to the right.
---questioning everything is a right path.
---you did it because God willed it upon you, you just have to ask him for strength to resist the load that He is putting over your shoulders. You got to where you are now because you wanted the truth, and the truth is a heavy load to most men. Only the Most Merciful can give you strength to resist it.


Do not stop nourishing yourself with the word of God, and do not listen to the ignorant. only God can clarify the turbulent waters of your mind.
your confusion comes from the fact that what the Lord is making you see collides violently with the world in which you grew, live in.

Find some comfort in the story of P. Abraham, who suffered the same confusion searching for truth.

it is normal to think that we have gone crazy, because we cannot be the only ones seen what we see. difficult to accept that we can be the only ones right and everybody around us wrong, because of the fear of going wrong. But, God knows best upon whom He bestows His Mercy. it is not those seeking truth that ere in madness, it is the world that is in madness.

may God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.