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Community Needs => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Amra94 on May 14, 2019, 09:06:12 AM

Title: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 14, 2019, 09:06:12 AM
Do you believe it's right to spay or neuter cats or is it wrong because you're "changing the creation of God"?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: hawk99 on May 14, 2019, 09:57:17 AM
Do you believe it's right to spay or neuter cats or is it wrong because you're "changing the creation of God"?

Interesting question Amra94, we once had a cat that was not
fixed and it urinated throughout the house.  We had another
cat we let live inside/outside and it came back with fleas.
We took it to the vet for treatment $$$.  The cat we have now
is fixed, no problems, she lives peacefully as a housecat she is a
constant companion   :)



                                             :peace:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 14, 2019, 11:37:30 AM
also cat is good for hunting rats. first she played with rat before eating, cat is such a funny animal..

a strange thing happen once in my friends factory due to which i realize animals can be emotional.

a male kitten was jumping and playing from here to there and was in a good mood and one of my friends employee used a scissor to cut his moustache in revenge, after that  he get really quiet and stay on the corner of room alone not doing any prank ... he knows what been happened to him but (HOW) ?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 14, 2019, 01:37:27 PM
Interesting question Amra94, we once had a cat that was not
fixed and it urinated throughout the house.  We had another
cat we let live inside/outside and it came back with fleas.
We took it to the vet for treatment $$$.  The cat we have now
is fixed, no problems, she lives peacefully as a housecat she is a
constant companion   :)



                                             :peace:

I think keeping cats indoors is good if you live near a busy road or something. I let mine out in the mornings to run around and explore otherwise he won't stop meowing then he's fine being inside the rest of the day. Im guessing yours has been an indoor cat since she was a kitten. Ours isnt fixed but he doesn't have any behavior problems either so I don't think it's necessary. But we also feed feral cats and our cat is getting close to one of them so I'm thinking about trapping that one and getting her fixed instead. That way she wont be able to get pregnant by any other cat and we won't have too many in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 14, 2019, 01:44:15 PM
also cat is good for hunting rats. first she played with rat before eating, cat is such a funny animal..

a strange thing happen once in my friends factory due to which i realize animals can be emotional.

a male kitten was jumping and playing from here to there and was in a good mood and one of my friends employee used a scissor to cut his moustache in revenge, after that  he get really quiet and stay on the corner of room alone not doing any prank ... he knows what been happened to him but (HOW) ?
Your friend is cruel. Cats need their whiskers for balance, they dont have them for no reason. He was probably dizzy and scared :(
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 14, 2019, 04:48:40 PM
Your friend is cruel.

HIS employee..

one of my friends employee
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: hawk99 on May 14, 2019, 07:13:25 PM
also cat is good for hunting rats. first she played with rat before eating, cat is such a funny animal..


Our cat is a good hunter but only plays with mice but will
not eat them, but she will eat flies    :yuck:

Your friend is cruel. Cats need their whiskers for balance, they dont have them for no reason. He was probably dizzy and scared :(

Yeah cruel and sad, cats need their whiskers to help see in the
dark and to maintain balance.

I think keeping cats indoors is good if you live near a busy road or something. I let mine out in the mornings to run around and explore otherwise he won't stop meowing then he's fine being inside the rest of the day. Im guessing yours has been an indoor cat since she was a kitten. Ours isnt fixed but he doesn't have any behavior problems either so I don't think it's necessary. But we also feed feral cats and our cat is getting close to one of them so I'm thinking about trapping that one and getting her fixed instead. That way she wont be able to get pregnant by any other cat and we won't have too many in the neighborhood.

Yeah she is an indoor cat and will only go out if one of
us will accompany her.  She doesn't like thunder or
other loud noises and will hide in the closet until she
feels safe (my cat is a chicken!)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 14, 2019, 08:09:17 PM

Our cat is a good hunter but only plays with mice but will
not eat them, but she will eat flies    :yuck:


TOM and JERRY are the only characters who love each other lol.

why she eat flies ? i witness cats eat lot of rubbish like insects cockroaches lizards snakes  :yuck:



Yeah cruel and sad, cats need their whiskers to help see in the
dark and to maintain balance.


indeed it was a cruel act i forget to mention in the shape of black cat they come for revenge  :rotfl:

JINNY in a cat lot of stories related with cats that possessed powers of invisible beings like  this one

(http://tennisplus.me/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/black-cat-halloween-pictures-protect-black-cats-this-by-picture-credit-images-scary-halloween-black-cat-pictures.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HAFd7XsQjFI/TWeSMNzf62I/AAAAAAAAABQ/iic8XvhV84U/s1600/black-cat.jpg)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Cerberus on May 14, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
I personally think it's unethical. And fundamentally rooted to a lack of understanding of life in general.

I rather a cat live as a cat and die as a cat than for it to live like some house furniture and then die of old age.

I had a male cat who started wanting to go outside as soon as he became a young adult and I used to let him leave, every night, sometimes he'll leave for days and come back full of scratches, hurt. He'd eat, sleep and leave again. One day he never came back. I assumed he got lost or died.

A fundamental part of being an animal is about following your instincts, and their instinct is to explore, hunt, mate and fight other males over territory.
Even if life could be risky and perilous outside, I rather the cat live the life of a cat. That's what the cat wants too. And they're also much more prepared for survival than we are.

What is accomplished when a cat is neutered, declawed, and left to live a longer life indoors deprived from its freedom ? And what is accomplished when a cat is left naturally, lived a shorter life but with all its freedom ?
Nothing much is accomplished, these things live and die for the earth. They wake up, chase after pleasure and go to sleep.

Do I have a say in this as a human ? Not really. As someone who doesn't aspire to live that kind of life, all I can do is let them live that kind of life.
And much of this is true for humans who live the life of the animal.

I actually started a thread about this in this forum back in the time when I was contemplating this issue:
if you were a pet (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609810.0)
I think there is more to learn about us than it is to learn about animals when thinking about animals.
And as you can see, there is a lot more to morality than just claims like "changing the creation of Allah"
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: huruf on May 14, 2019, 11:52:05 PM
Animals re not species, they are individuals, just like humans. You cannot use one specimen to state anything about the whole species. Each one is his or her own. Peasants who keep animals know it.
On the other hand, bout being neutered, dogs, who are suposedly the descendants of wolves, mostly want to fit into a family. Amongst wolves who live in freedom only the Alfa wolf and the alfa wolvess reproduce. The othe dogs in the pack do not.

The question as to how animals ar ehappy or "realised" is nobody knows, first becuse we do not know enough about the species, second because they are nto a species but each an individual. We make seta cat on the street free and make it happy or you make it the most unhapy creature, because what it wanted was to be in a family. And between the two alternatives there may be many others.

You have to play by ear. Dogs generally are family animals. They all seem to want a family more than anything else, but then once there is a fmaily each one is his or her own, although they go long stretches to adapt and please each other and compromise.

Once once again there is this myth of nature. Animals, like humans, learn and adapt. And animals like learning with and from humans, when humans do take the effort and time to teach them. Humans also learn from animals. From dogs I have learnt a lot, a very big lot. Some of them seem naturally to have manners, like saying thank you when you give them to eat. They do not speak, but nudge you with their nose, guess it is a thank you although it could also be an acknowledgement of receipt.

I guess the first thing for dealing with animals is not to have any preconceived expectations and take them as they come and then if you live or deal with them, let the best relationship develop.

Salaam 
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 15, 2019, 01:35:03 AM
Can you imagine if all domesticated cats, dogs and other animals were let loose in the streets?
It is now an irreversible trend of "pets" for humans. Some are treated fine others are abused. Society are left to pick up the pieces for all the unfortunate mistreated animals thanks to some good willing and helpful humans.

I have a dog, rescued from a home. To me we are the best of friends, also from the dog behaviour and interaction with me I feel that the friendship is reciprocated.. Just how do I get to choose what is best for my dog? Send him to the wild? Where? I do not know where "wild" dogs live? It is not practical nor does it exist where I live. So I look after him and he looks after me for now!!!

Had the situation been different and all animals were left to their instinct from the beginning, it would be different and I would not want to change it .

Love inside a person and their intentions are the main thing. Love all creations and treat them with respect that is all one can do as things stand.
A difficult balance to get right . Our desires and lack of knowledge is the issue.
GOD bless.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 15, 2019, 02:48:27 PM
I personally think it's unethical. And fundamentally rooted to a lack of understanding of life in general.

I rather a cat live as a cat and die as a cat than for it to live like some house furniture and then die of old age.

I had a male cat who started wanting to go outside as soon as he became a young adult and I used to let him leave, every night, sometimes he'll leave for days and come back full of scratches, hurt. He'd eat, sleep and leave again. One day he never came back. I assumed he got lost or died.

A fundamental part of being an animal is about following your instincts, and their instinct is to explore, hunt, mate and fight other males over territory.
Even if life could be risky and perilous outside, I rather the cat live the life of a cat. That's what the cat wants too. And they're also much more prepared for survival than we are.

What is accomplished when a cat is neutered, declawed, and left to live a longer life indoors deprived from its freedom ? And what is accomplished when a cat is left naturally, lived a shorter life but with all its freedom ?
Nothing much is accomplished, these things live and die for the earth. They wake up, chase after pleasure and go to sleep.

Do I have a say in this as a human ? Not really. As someone who doesn't aspire to live that kind of life, all I can do is let them live that kind of life.
And much of this is true for humans who live the life of the animal.

I actually started a thread about this in this forum back in the time when I was contemplating this issue:
if you were a pet (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609810.0)
I think there is more to learn about us than it is to learn about animals when thinking about animals.
And as you can see, there is a lot more to morality than just claims like "changing the creation of Allah"

Yeah I agree you shouldn't keep a cat locked inside if they have a desire to go outside on their own and explore. Not all cats are like that so for those that like being indoors I think it's fine to keep them in. Our cat adopted us a few months ago and luckily he doesn't venture too far away when he goes outside, hes always back in like an hour and just hangs out in the yard. And I don't really worry about him getting into fights because he's not aggressive or territorial. He's like the perfect cat.

But I think because cats are domesticated animals it might be a good thing to spay and neuter in order to keep feral cat population under control because they do suffer from contagious diseases, hunger, etc unfortunately we can't help all of them live a better life..
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Cerberus on May 15, 2019, 10:00:48 PM
I think I should have worded myself a little better.

If you think you're doing the pet a great service I don't see an issue here. I guess like good logic said, it's all about the intent. Some people are just obsessed about turning beautiful things into their own, even if it meant taking away their freedom and/or altering them physically.

When I got that cat I spoke about earlier, I didn't actually get it I was going home one day and I turn around there is this little kitten following me, I ask some kid how long this kitten has been here ? the kid says all night. I made the judgement that this kitten will be better under my care. Under my care, not my own. So when the cat grew up and wanted to leave to mate and what not I found no objection, and where I live there is still potential to live outdoors, so I let him be. Even if it meant a risk of death.

But my argument was based on my situation, and in your situation there might not be a potential for life outdoors where you live. So taking them indoors and possibly doing the "adjustements" if you really have to could be the best solution. Just make the reasoning for it and have the right intentions. Don't just follow the "new norms" or trends. Who makes them and on what basis they do so ?

I currently feed cats outside my house. The cats appreciate it and show affection. I wouldn't go out of my way and make one of them my own unless I judge it BEST FOR THEM.

It's also a good time to ask why are people getting pets ? Are there any ethical reasons of getting a pet ? Doing a service to the animal is obviously one of them. This is very pertinent specially when you have people with caged birds, fish in aquarium, wild animals (like snakes and what not)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: huruf on May 16, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
It is like any relationship. The important thing is not how it came but what you intend out of it. The point is that it is a relationship, and a relationship to work must be fair and do service to those in it.

Pets today fulfill emotional services for people. Humans relationships seem to be too much loaded today with noise and considerations that unpurify them. So pets are a good compensation. Empathic animals like dogs are a Godsent.

So the question as to why human relationships today are so downgraded is a question in its own. But I do not think that there is a competition between relationships with pets and rleationship with people. I think the latter are spoilt, but doing away with relationship with pets would not mend them, and would deprive us of a balancing factor which is a good emotional relationship. To have a warm living thing which caresses you and you caress without any other calculation is obviously something good to have, and the question is not merely self-seeking, since animals do give you some work too, particularly if they have illnesses or problems. The point is that in a relationship you will get something but must also put in something, which if there is sincerity and kindness should not be too hard and the compensations are great.

I do agree that something is not working with human relationships. We have been loaded with "culture" crap which contaminates all human dealings. Whereas with pets we have sincerity, with persons we may try but it is very much conditionned. Not something to be solved in afew messages in a forum.

Still thanks be to God and may He bless all animals that are loving to us. 

Salaam
   
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 16, 2019, 06:53:57 AM


It's also a good time to ask why are people getting pets ? Are there any ethical reasons of getting a pet ? Doing a service to the animal is obviously one of them. This is very pertinent specially when you have people with caged birds, fish in aquarium, wild animals (like snakes and what not)

We have parakeets but we don't keep them in a cage, we keep them in an extra room where they have a tree house. Imo they're much better off inside because they're not wild birds. They would probably die of hunger within days if we set them free.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 21, 2019, 08:17:14 PM
peace,

Not at all agreeing treating animals with man made medicines/treatments. Its all based on human understanding. Who knows the side effects(long term) of these medicines?(which cannot find through experiments). Animals cannot express their feelings/pains as such with human, right?
Who knows that these doctor fellows won't find it wrong in the future?

WHO cures the wild animals when they are ill? (e.g. wounds after fighting). [I witnessed curing without any medicines.]

I think there is no need of a pet in a Happy human family.

In my home sometime cats will come and sometimes dogs but they are not ours/pets (I usually do not let them to come inside the home without reason). Sometime cat comes with its babies. I like to observe their life.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 23, 2019, 02:56:24 AM
Quote
Who knows that these doctor fellows won't find it wrong in the future?

We already know about many medicines which are banned after understanding its adverse effects (i.e. after years of consumption by patients)

See another example,

Qur'an's method to determine pregnancy is waiting for a few Full-moons/months (e.g. for finalising divorce).

And modern-world/doctors suggest ultrasound.

but now people understanding the problems..
“Although ultrasound imaging is generally considered safe when used prudently by appropriately trained health care providers, ultrasound energy has the potential to produce biological effects on the body. Ultrasound waves can heat the tissues slightly. In some cases, it can also produce small pockets of gas in body fluids or tissues (cavitation).”
https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/medical-imaging/ultrasound-imaging (https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/medical-imaging/ultrasound-imaging)

“When modern sophisticated equipment is used at maximum operating settings for Doppler examinations, the acoustic outputs are sufficient to produce obvious biological effects, e.g. significant temperature increase in tissue or visible motion of particles due to radiation pressure streaming effects. The risk of inducing thermal effects is greater in the second and third trimesters, when fetal bone is intercepted by the ultrasound beam and significant temperature increase can occur in the fetal brain.”
https://chriskresser.com/natural-childbirth-iib-ultrasound-not-as-safe-as-commonly-thought/
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 24, 2019, 02:10:37 PM
peace,

Not at all agreeing treating animals with man made medicines/treatments. Its all based on human understanding. Who knows the side effects(long term) of these medicines?(which cannot find through experiments). Animals cannot express their feelings/pains as such with human, right?
Who knows that these doctor fellows won't find it wrong in the future?

WHO cures the wild animals when they are ill? (e.g. wounds after fighting). [I witnessed curing without any medicines.]

I think there is no need of a pet in a Happy human family.

In my home sometime cats will come and sometimes dogs but they are not ours/pets (I usually do not let them to come inside the home without reason). Sometime cat comes with its babies. I like to observe their life.
God is the healer but that doesn't mean we have to avoid medicine and medical procedures just because they're man made treatments. What's wrong with praying to God for healing AND seeking treatment..
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 24, 2019, 07:03:26 PM
God is the healer but that doesn't mean we have to avoid medicine and medical procedures just because they're man made treatments. What's wrong with praying to God for healing AND seeking treatment..

My view regarding the subject
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610495.0 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610495.0)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on May 25, 2019, 01:59:28 PM
My view regarding the subject
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610495.0 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610495.0)
No offense but people who think that way give me a headache. You got some good answers to your question.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 25, 2019, 11:41:15 PM
No offense but people who think that way give me a headache. You got some good answers to your question.

I assume you have read replies #8 & #13 from the link.

When people have no money (for visting a doctor), the only way is to depend/call God,
And when they have money, they seek refuge with the doctor.

39:8
And if harm touched the human, he called his Lord repenting to Him, then if He made him own a blessing/goodness from Him, he forgot what he was calling to Him from before, and he made/put to God equals to misguide from His path, say: " enjoy with your disbelief little that you are from the fire's owners/company."

For Red bold
Qur'an does not mentions doctors but says,

"And if I am sick/diseased, it is He Who cures me.” [26:80]

Anyway, enjoy with your FAITH Amra94. peace
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 26, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
if somebody got a cancer he should pray instead of getting the surgery done, may b he/she got lucky and reincarnated character of jesus christ suddenly came from nowhere and heal the patient ...

i wonder 2000 years ago why didnt jesus said to blind go ask "GOD" to heal you ? why you come to me ?  :hmm

what if someone get his/her bone break ? oh God come fix my BONE  :brickwall:

once a person had a swear headache and another person told him why having paracetamol do u know atheist is behind the production  :rotfl:

one verse before 26:80

26:79 "And He is the One who feeds me and gives me to drink."  :yes and 3 times a day God knocks the door of everyone and said i bring food for you mate  :rotfl:.

some mothers dnt Trust on GOD thats why they dont wait  for God to come and feed their kids   :laugh:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 27, 2019, 03:42:11 AM
Peace Imran.

GOD works inside the hearts also. Those who trust in GOD Alone ask directly and GOD brings  directly or indirectly or not bring for a reason.

You never know ,if Mohammed does not go to the mountain, the mountain may come to Mohammed.

How many stories of miracles and near misses can one bring about GOD and His overseeing /protecting of His servants!!

Of course one should make the effort and help themselves, but that alone is a lottery also.
Both should go hand in hand.  Ask GOD and help yourself .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 27, 2019, 08:28:25 AM
if somebody got a cancer he should pray instead of getting the surgery done,...

You can do radiation therapy/surgery(for bigger tumours that cannot treat with medicines) etc. in modern day. And you can identify the exact area of tumour growth through scanning. But what’s your LOGIC for 7th century? [Come with Qur’anic evidence, if you have]

When prayers/needs are not answered, it’s common/usual for human kind (e.g. hypocrites/those with weak faith/no faith) to find alternatives. (Many branches of modern science are just examples)

Quote
what if someone get his/her bone break ? oh God come fix my BONE  :brickwall:

It’s in-born in humans, animals etc. the self-healing mechanism ( only if God willing ) and even bone fractures (with proper care). But such things/anything will not happen without reason.

Quote
one verse before 26:80

26:79 "And He is the One who feeds me and gives me to drink."  :yes and 3 times a day God knocks the door of everyone and said i bring food for you mate  :rotfl:.

some mothers dnt Trust on GOD thats why they dont wait  for God to come and feed their kids   :laugh:

In addition to the verse you quoted, there are plenty of verses in the Qur’an which mentions different kind of food /drink, or commands for what to eat/what to drink etc. and feeding/caring children too.

But with reference to illnesses/medicines/treatment did you find any verse other than 26:80 ? Or other than verses like 16:69, 41:44 ?

peace
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on May 27, 2019, 08:33:36 AM
peace good logic,

Good to see you.
GOD bless you.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 27, 2019, 09:28:17 PM
and I heal the blind and the lepers (3:49) ... i think jesus got the laser technology at the times before 7th century.  :rotfl: why didnt he said that "ask God to heal you" specially when he was representing God directly ?

But what’s your LOGIC for 7th century?

not my logic (becoz i m not good-logic)  :D JK but the logic of some stupids of 7th  century to drink the urine of camel for "skin infections" some stupids still doing it...   :hmm

i wonder if jesus can fix the stupids becoz  :elektro: its also the invention of 20th century to give people electric shocks sometimes it work sometimes it make patient more worse  :&


In addition to the verse you quoted,

peace

not in addition but in subtraction becoz that verse is just before verse what you quoted lol...

believing a part of book and rejecting another part is purely a LOGICAL fallacy this time a full package of REF :handshake: verses are connected like this handshake  :peace:

26:79 "And He is the One who feeds me and gives me to drink."
26:80 and when I fall ill, is the One who restores me to health,


and also he advise us to use common sense always (17:36)

God bless
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 27, 2019, 09:46:47 PM


You never know ,if Mohammed does not go to the mountain, the mountain may come to Mohammed.

.

TRUE i never know ..

but your current messenger (RK) is prefect he already knew the date of the day of judgement how sad he dnt know the date of his death which was coded with 19 only if you hook and crook like this brilliant mind did.

31011990 = 19 x 1230 x 1327 lol

but i agree God coded in such a way that it get hook and crooked by someone, same like God manage to save people from hunger and pain. after All its one TRUE universal God is running the show..

God bless you too
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 28, 2019, 02:51:46 AM
Peace Imran.
This is wrong, quote:
but your current messenger (RK) is prefect he already knew the date of the day of judgement how sad he dnt know the date of his death which was coded with 19 only if you hook and crook like this brilliant mind did.

1- RK is long gone . He is not the current messenger.

2- My current messenger is Qoran. Accepting Qoran is accepting all the messengers. Past, present and future.

 
3- After I checked code 19, I moved on. The most important thing for me is to accept the message and try to heed GOD s instructions . i.e work on my shortcomings.

So thank you for reply, but I pass on your comments.
GOD bless you.
Peace to you brother.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 28, 2019, 09:56:52 AM

This is wrong, quote:
but your current messenger (RK) is prefect he already knew the date of the day of judgement how sad he dnt know the date of his death which was coded with 19 only if you hook and crook like this brilliant mind did.

1- RK is long gone . He is not the current messenger.

2- My current messenger is Qoran. Accepting Qoran is accepting all the messengers. Past, present and future.


peace brother

RED lets change it to SECOND last  :yes
GREEN your current messenger is saying only God knows the date of the DAY of judgement, and your  second last one is saying opposite  :hmm
BLUE point to ponder.

God bless you
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 29, 2019, 09:30:18 AM
Peace Imran.

Wrong again brother when you say quote:

GREEN your current messenger is saying only God knows the date of the DAY of judgement, and your  second last one is saying opposite 

1- I have not seen the date of the DAY OF JUDGEMENT given by anyone, or do you mean an approximate year?

2-Your understanding differs from mine, There are hints of the day of judgement in Qoran like "Akadu Akhfiha" and "Why do you think GOD is telling you the story of "Ashab Al Kahf and Rakeem" and "Liyahlama An Kad Ablaghou Risalat Rabbihim ?"...etc.

3- Qoran is telling you those who believe are certain the "Day of judgement will come" and those who doubt are not going to believe anything about it. So it is irrelevant whether one knows the approximate time of it or not. Either one works towards that goal or does not.

4- My current messenger-Qoran- is the one I follow brother. It supersedes all other views of other messengers that contradict it. Just so that you know where I stand

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 29, 2019, 11:16:02 AM
 Peace GL

Thats y you remove the two verses of your current messenger  :rotfl:
 
Your last line of post remind me of a song

" I AM STANDING in the middle of no where "by modern talking

One of their hit song was you r not good cant u see brother louie louie louie

So u agree he hinted towards the year ?

God bless  :peace:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 30, 2019, 01:58:47 AM
Peace Imran.

This is my stand brother:
 I check all views including my own with a reference called Qoran. If I find-Of course according to my own checking and understanding- that it agrees with Qoran, then Qoran is the criteria.
You seem to confuse human opinions with Qoran s  take. Or do you think human messengers have not got personal opinions? Or they do not err? Or they are not a test to others and tested themselves?

Here are my answers to your concerns about me:

1-We discussed 9:128, 129.  Yes, according to my study of Qoran s composition, it does not belong there. You argue the opposite and only the original copy of the prophet can solve your problem.

2- It is irrelevant if one predicts the day of judgement. Like I said those who are certain work for it as if it is tomorrow, those who do not believe in it ,it will never arrive as far as they are concerned. All RK s views need to be checked against Qoran like yours and mine.

3-The message from RK as far as I am concerned is "Follow GOD Alone using Qoran alone". This tells us everything we need to know. Then we move to accept, study and follow GOD s instructions to work on ourselves for ourselves.

Hope now you get my message.
Brother only GOD is our Wakeel not any other human.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 30, 2019, 11:48:16 AM


You never know ,if Mohammed does not go to the mountain, the mountain may come to Mohammed.



from here read again and read the previous posts again.. you are funny at extreme..


2- It is irrelevant if one predicts the day of judgement


with these two statements you contradict your own self becoz now your messenger is on trial...  :yay:

otherwise i havnt got any wish to continue debate of 19 with you,

you stumped on several occasions. you can read or go through the previous threads about all those replies what i already given.. (save your and mine time) and see the thread was about cats and diseases...i guess..you just came from nowhere "quoating me" and i m just figuring it out why advising me something in which your messenger is brilliant and now you are stuck  :rotfl: i hope and pray from God u atleast understand why we are discussing that issue...of UNSEEN

but (I admit) i dnt know unseen and i also figured it out your messenger after  knowing this truth still do blunders of knowing unseen...

NOTE your current messenger (QURAN) is  the version of quran by your second last messenger khalifa in which you REJECT 2 verses.. thats what your stand... ( on top of that he used the help from hadith)... blunder upon blunder...

and

Or do you think human messengers have not got personal opinions? Or they do not err?

i think the messenger of God only deliver a message whats is from God not from his personal desires

but your second last messenger is exception ... his lies/blunders/sins/rejections you are covering with ERR ?

he hijacked the id of messenger of covenant and you are supporter of hijacker (thats what your  stand my lovely GL)

GOD bless you
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 30, 2019, 12:13:48 PM

You seem to confuse human opinions with Qoran s

Here are my answers to your concerns about me:

1-We discussed 9:128, 129.  Yes, according to my study of Qoran s composition, it does not belong there. You argue the opposite and only the original copy of the prophet can solve your problem.

2- It is irrelevant if one predicts the day of judgement. Like I said those who are certain work for it as if it is tomorrow, those who do not believe in it ,it will never arrive as far as they are concerned. All RK s views need to be checked against Qoran like yours and mine.

3-The message from RK as far as I am concerned is "Follow GOD Alone using Qoran alone". This tells us everything we need to know. Then we move to accept, study and follow GOD s instructions to work on ourselves for ourselves.

Hope now you get my message.


ALL three points contradict with each other what you need is hire a neutral researcher (imagine for one day your brain is at retirement stage) and seek help from neutral researcher ...

he will write/issue a lengthy essay on the blunders/errors/rules/fallaices etc.

to show you the flaws of your three points..

example 1

"Follow GOD Alone using Qoran alone" from point 3..

but reality is they remove/reject the verses of QURAN alone ....

example 2

God only have a knowledge of hour

but reality is so called messenger prophesied it...

example 3 ,4,5,6,7, so on 19 i can give you 19 fallacies at hand within your 3 points...

i would not have post the reply of your three points seperately if you corrected like this

"follow God alone using QURAN alone by (khailfa)" then i have no issue..
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on May 30, 2019, 12:35:21 PM
Peace Imran.
Obviously you are not getting my message. So keep insisting with your wrong argument.

I am simply commanded to follow the Lord .And to study/ recite/ponder the Qoran. Whoever is guided is guided for his own good,
 
I get your message ,you do not like RK for your own reasons. May be your own cleverness or arrogance is leading you to your own path. You are free to follow whatever you choose.

Going by your posts, I do not see any evidence refuting some good arguments. I only see general talk, most of it personal, mocking and irrelevant.
I close my conversation here brother.
Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 30, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
peace GL,

i think my prayer not fullfilled and you did not understand or you dnt want to understand either cases its true we should save eachothers time instead of hijacking somones else thread  ;)

next time treat people/advise people the way, you want to get treat/advise.. otherwise stay quiet ..

i never knew mountain came to RK now  :rotfl: mountain who stab him 19 times

God bless you  :handshake:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Jafar on May 31, 2019, 11:23:43 AM
Do you believe it's right to spay or neuter cats or is it wrong because you're "changing the creation of God"?

What if you're the cat?
Would you like to be treated as such?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 31, 2019, 09:08:21 PM
Do you believe it's right to spay or neuter cats or is it wrong because you're "changing the creation of God"?


Your friend is cruel. Cats need their whiskers for balance, they dont have them for no reason. He was probably dizzy and scared :(

Neutering is a common and routine operation that involves the removal of your cat's sexual reproduction organs.

hairs will grow back at some time i guess so considering this thing compared to "Neutering" is indeed height of cruelty  :o

thanks jafar for another insight to be honest i just googled that word.. and get shocked at first i just thought op is just asking about spray now i suggest op to read this verse hope it will help..

?I will mislead them and entice them.? I will order them to slit the ears of cattle and disfigure the creation of God.? Whoever forsakes God and takes Satan for a friend, has suffered a manifest loss (4:119)..

i wish we have more minds like jafar in forum... :police:
 you are champion bro may God give/bless u long life.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 01, 2019, 06:02:24 PM

Neutering is a common and routine operation that involves the removal of your cat's sexual reproduction organs.

hairs will grow back at some time i guess so considering this thing compared to "Neutering" is indeed height of cruelty  :o

thanks jafar for another insight to be honest i just googled that word.. and get shocked at first i just thought op is just asking about spray now i suggest op to read this verse hope it will help..

�I will mislead them and entice them.� I will order them to slit the ears of cattle and disfigure the creation of God.� Whoever forsakes God and takes Satan for a friend, has suffered a manifest loss (4:119)..

i wish we have more minds like jafar in forum... :police:
 you are champion bro may God give/bless u long life.
Spaying/neutering is a surgery and actually has benefits vs cutting a cats whiskers off for "revenge" like a psycho. How's that comparable.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 01, 2019, 06:23:41 PM
What if you're the cat?
Would you like to be treated as such?
Two of the feral cats we feed recently had kittens. We know one had 3 for sure, let's say the other one had 3. We haven't seen 5 of them because they most likely died. We recently caught the only one that showed up in our yard with its mom. So if I was a cat and knew most of my babies would die if i reproduced then no I wouldn't mind being fixed.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 01, 2019, 08:34:36 PM
Spaying/neutering is a surgery and actually has benefits vs cutting a cats whiskers off for "revenge" like a psycho. How's that comparable.

its not comparable at all,

neutering is a act of crime/immorality/indecency.  against animal who cant speak for itself... confrim psycho = confirm criminal = confirm friend of satan ( 4:119)  so  :elektro: on house for that mentally handicapped...

cutting whiskers will come back again although its act of shame too due to the ignorance of that person.. for him i already request my frd to suspend his employee untill the whiskers come back  :police: :peace:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 02, 2019, 02:22:52 PM
its not comparable at all,

neutering is a act of crime/immorality/indecency.  against animal who cant speak for itself... confrim psycho = confirm criminal = confirm friend of satan ( 4:119)  so  :elektro: on house for that mentally handicapped...

cutting whiskers will come back again although its act of shame too due to the ignorance of that person.. for him i already request my frd to suspend his employee untill the whiskers come back  :police: :peace:
What's the punishment for neutering cats if it's a CRIME
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 02, 2019, 02:38:34 PM
What's the punishment for neutering cats if it's a CRIME

If someone does it to you what punishment do u think is best ?

Different rules set in different areas
Example in india if u hunt a deer u have to face prison, famous actor SALMAN khan hunted one of them and he was having a TRIAL.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/05/salman-khan-bollywood-actor-guilty-of-killing-rare-antelopes (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/apr/05/salman-khan-bollywood-actor-guilty-of-killing-rare-antelopes)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 02, 2019, 02:45:30 PM
If someone does it to you what punishment do u think is best ?
Um no it doesnt work like that. What's your Quranic proof that animals and humans are equal.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 02, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Um no it doesnt work like that. What's your Quranic proof that animals and humans are equal.

Did u even read the previous posts and verse 4:119 ?

Or u want me to send that verse through bluetooth  :rotfl:

Btw lie/dishonesty are  also crimes/immoral/indecent acts do u also want quranic proof for them ?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 02, 2019, 05:15:21 PM
Did u even read the previous posts and verse 4:119 ?

Or u want me to send that verse through bluetooth  :rotfl:

Btw lie/dishonesty are  also crimes/immoral/indecent acts do u also want quranic proof for them ?
Youre saying neutering is a crime based on that verse. Even though it isn't a polytheistic practice and is done to prevent overpopulation of homeless cats/save lives. Why is it a crime?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 02, 2019, 07:21:58 PM
Youre saying neutering is a crime based on that verse. Even though it isn't a polytheistic practice and is done to prevent overpopulation of homeless cats/save lives. Why is it a crime?

BLUE i m saying its a disfiguration in the nature and read that verse again lem me know whats written there according to your understanding..

RED who  gave you right to think like a creator about his creation ? or you have a special license of doing that ?

ORANGE not only a CRIME/immoral/indecent act but also a act of cruel psychopath but u r free to decide as everyone have their own mind. yes according to me its a (crime/unethic) to cut the wings of birds or slit the ears of cattle or remove the sexual organs of animals etc...
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 03, 2019, 01:53:44 AM
and I heal the blind and the lepers (3:49) ... i think jesus got the laser technology at the times before 7th century.  :rotfl: why didnt he said that "ask God to heal you" specially when he was representing God directly ?

Read the Full verse. And note the parts of the verse which you removed in your post.


Quote
not my logic ...

not in addition but...

These are not the answers to my questions. [ Leave, if you don't have the answer ]


Quote
and also he advise us to use common sense always (17:36)

There are different types of common sense [believer’s common sense, atheist common sense, hypocrite common sense etc.]

For example here in 8:49, some people used their common sense when a (very) small group of believers prepared for fighting a big group (e.g. 20 believers fighting 200!! -8:65- i.e. 1 believer have to face 10 enemies!)

8:49
When the hypocrites and those who have a disease in their hearts said: “These people have been deceived by their dheen/system.” But whoever puts his trust in God, then surely, God is Noble/Mighty, Wise/Judicious.

peace
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Amra94 on June 03, 2019, 06:39:15 AM
BLUE i m saying its a disfiguration in the nature and read that verse again lem me know whats written there according to your understanding..

RED who  gave you right to think like a creator about his creation ? or you have a special license of doing that ?

ORANGE not only a CRIME/immoral/indecent act but also a act of cruel psychopath but u r free to decide as everyone have their own mind. yes according to me its a (crime/unethic) to cut the wings of birds or slit the ears of cattle or remove the sexual organs of animals etc...
A lot of things can be considered a "disfiguration in nature" like getting braces, teeth pulled out, having body parts removed if you have cancer, taking birth control. Are they all crimes cause these things don't grow back like whiskers

Red: What polytheistic group spays/neuters cats for religious reasons?

Orange: You're comparing a surgery to animal abuse
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 03, 2019, 12:43:45 PM
@mohammed u need to learn how to understand the verses in which common sense required but i can understand some people are half baked due to which they are helpless in undsrstanding common sense.

Example its god who make u feed and make u healthy after illness.
But from this people lacking in common sense think God will come and bring food and suregery equipments so i think u ll do an experiment of three days  waiting for God to come and bring food for you.

Another experiment jump from hill get ur bone break and wait God to come and fix your bone  :rotfl:

Then u can always share ur experience with us who knows how many people get benefit from it lol.

@ amra94 u skipped the questions too instead of moving the debate further
Read my posts again and try sorting out apparent issues

1 What if someone remove ur reproduction organs without asking ur wish?
2 How u understand 4:119?


Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 04, 2019, 08:22:27 AM
...i think u ll do an experiment of...

Another experiment...

It’s your NEED actually, if you have any diseases of disbelief/hypocrisy. Therefore, test yourself and verify for yourself.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 08:21:02 PM
It’s your NEED actually, if you have any diseases of disbelief/hypocrisy. Therefore, test yourself and verify for yourself.

thats the problem with people who are weak in understanding whats going on ..

some more examples...

1.no poison can harm a true christian according to bible. ( dr william campbell) refuse to take the challenge...
2.no poison/magic can harm a true bukharian if he eat seven dates according to bukhari & co. ( bukharians) refuse  to take the challenge...

no doctor need for patients according to your claim  "you also refuse to take the challenge"...

when things put on experiment/test then most of the times output/result clear lot of things.. same happened here  :yay:

here are the verses suitable for the disease what you have..lol

2:7 God (His Law of Cause and Effect) has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their sight there is a veil. And theirs will be a tremendous suffering.

people who lacking in common sense  :rotfl:

2:10 (This negative attitude) is a disease in their hearts, and God (His law) increases their disease. And for them is painful suffering, for, they lie to themselves.

Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: good logic on June 05, 2019, 02:02:14 AM
So trusting in GOD is a disease? Then there are good and bad diseases.

Here is a better common sense:
Trust in GOD to help you and also help yourself.

How can you eat poison when you know for sure poison kills? Is that trusting in GOD? GOD tells you: "Walla tulku Bi Anfusikum Ila Al Tahlikati…" Do not harm yourself. Like you are not going to throw yourself into the fire ,are you?

However if you are thrown into the fire by others , trusting in GOD may save you(Abraham). Or if you are fed poison against your will you may be saved( survive the event) by GOD...etc.  "Lahu Muakkibatun Min Bayn Yadahi Wa Min Khalfihi Yahfadunahu  By the will of GOD..."

To some weird common sense, GOD has no part to play. To normal common sense, GOD is working with His creation continuously.
GOD is there for those who choose to work with Him.

The obvious common sense is to:
1-One trust in GOD. Alone.
2- follow  GOD s laws also.

Both go hand in hand, if one believe in and believe GOD..
GOD bless.
Peace.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 05, 2019, 04:59:04 AM
no doctor need for patients according to your claim  "you also refuse to take the challenge"...

when things put on experiment/test then most of the times output/result clear lot of things.. same happened here  :yay:

What challenge did I refuse except nonsense(your common sense?) ?
What experiment you did? What output/result you got? except your GUESS?
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 05, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
What challenge did I refuse?
What experiment you did?

RED you refused to stay hungry and jump from hill isnt it ?
BLUE not my experiment its was YOU who represent a theory due to lack of common sense that no doctor need for curing a disease.. you been put on test and you run like zebra...

why i gona experiment when i recommend people to go doctor if you are ill.. and also
i take paracetamol when i have headache ( headache go away from that experiment)..

you are the enemy of people who need ambulance  :rotfl: in emergency

Then what is the point of going to the doctor? It is SHIRK in my understanding! (Seeking help from the doctor when God is not helping!)

forget about my common sense just ask from members how many agree with your understanding ? another experiment  for you on house  :handshake:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 05, 2019, 09:54:19 PM
RED you refused to stay hungry and jump from hill isnt it ?
BLUE not my experiment its was YOU who represent a theory due to lack of common sense that no doctor need for curing a disease.. you been put on test and you run like zebra...

How badly you are exposing your disease imrankhawaja


Quote
..i take paracetamol when i have headache ( headache go away from that experiment)..
For those who have lost the Trust in their Creator, the self-healing mechanism may not work well.
And remember, sometimes your paracetamol/doctor won't suffice you.

Quote
you are the enemy of people who need ambulance  :rotfl: in emergency
I didn't force anyone to follow my understanding, everyone has their own choice.

Quote
forget about my common sense just ask from members how many agree with your understanding ? another experiment  for you on house  :handshake:
It doesn't matter for me whether people agree with me or not. Each will receive his own reward according to his own work.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 05, 2019, 10:16:16 PM
How badly you are exposing your disease imrankhawaja

you are a disease and i m cure ( COBRA) movie startup  :rotfl:

people who take paracetamol are the ones who lost hope in God    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

someone wise once told me when in debate someone start doing personal attacks its mean he/she is losing debate its better to finish my debate with you i dnt want you to get depression and in the end u ll have headache and you will not take paracetamol ... i still care for you  :handshake:

btw did you hear anyone saying you ever when they have headache and magically paracetamol works and they get back to normal?

i dnt know you know the game name as cricket now a days worldcup is going on and if a player get hit by hard ball the physical trainer of team bring a spray what make the pain go away.. why he does that ?   :hmm

i think all players are the one who lost hope in GOD  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

.It doesn't matter for me whether people agree with me or not.

good for you..
but why not do an experiment actually u already did an experiment by opening a thread in which people not agree with you so now its does not matter to you anymore...  :& :rotfl: but i asked a common sense question i will do one more time what was the post from you..

imagine if you have an accident and you have a wound which required stitching...

your options
DOCTOR or COBBLER ?

both can stitch (i will advice people to go doctor who are expert in body stitching) instead  of cobbler  :rotfl:

third option leave it as it is" trusting on God to come with surgery apparatus" ? the one from your post
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 06, 2019, 03:21:16 AM
what was the post from you..

imagine if you have an accident and you have a wound which required stitching...

My posts were very simple. I don’t know why you are not able to understand my posts.
May be something like the Failure of paracetamol-doctor experiment.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: hawk99 on June 06, 2019, 06:40:33 AM


hairs will grow back at some time i guess so considering this thing compared to "Neutering" is indeed height of cruelty  :o

Peace imrankhawaja, whiskers should never be cut on a cat because
they are like antennae whereas "Neutering"  is beneficial to both cat
and guardian.



2 How u understand 4:119?

(4:119) And most certainly I will lead them astray and excite in them
vain desires, and bid them so that they shall slit the ears of the cattle,
and most certainly I will bid them so that they shall alter Allah's creation;
and whoever takes the Shaitan for a guardian rather than Allah
he indeed shall suffer a manifest loss.

We alter the Allah's creation all the time, (I like my furniture) some
alterations according to the context of  4:119 are for making sacred
that which is not like the cow or the slitting of the ears Imho.

Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 06, 2019, 07:21:11 PM
Peace imrankhawaja,
whiskers should never be cut on a cat because
they are like antennae

peace hawk,
i agree and already posted you something in post 7 of this thread..

whereas "Neutering"  is beneficial to both cat
and guardian.

who are we to decide ? wild animals deserve to live like wild...

what if you cut the wings of bird and say its beneficial for guardian so that he cant fly ? and also its beneficial for bird so that he cant get eat by other big birds like your HAWK in avatar lol...

CAT belong to family of hunters like lion, leapords, tiger, panther, cheeta etc.. on top of that we should not take any action against someones wish its called making those animals our slaves..
(same question from you) just apply it on yourself do you like someone do your neutring against your wish ?

someone once told me bird in cage is love of human and bird in sky is the .love of God.


We alter the Allah's creation all the time, (I like my furniture)

thats called creativity, and there is a difference in between cruelty and creativity.. common brother
did you see any monkey doing computer work lmao apart from the funny pics ..4:119 is not talking about your furniture lol

(https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D12AQHN8Q0jX2zFvQ/article-cover_image-shrink_600_2000/0?e=1564617600&v=beta&t=1n4hUKMuXgDNPGrccWX9TzpwoJFRSYRGBqSP-KUzbD8)

Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 06, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/a4ed47339eddcb4c6dd4afd4895a246c/tumblr_olpzs3CiXW1u501aoo1_400.gif)

he  will say people not to go doctor a NEW idea lol

My posts were very simple. I don’t know why you are not able to understand my posts.


(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4517a8c0ede92a5fcff3d9c5f7b39107/tumblr_olpzs3CiXW1u501aoo2_400.gif)

May be something like the Failure of paracetamol-doctor experiment.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/dd/84/64dd84af6feba019da95a795851bf9b1.gif)

cobra was the doctor of the disease.. thats how he saved 100s innocent lives 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdorableTartGiraffe-max-1mb.gif)

brother watch this movie you will enjoy it after this incident his seniors were angry at him but the fact is he saved people from psychopath interestingly he sort the matter out for them and they still were unhappy...

doctors sometimes try to save lives and make experiments on medicines we should thanks to them instead of thinking they are doing shirk  :rotfl:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: hawk99 on June 07, 2019, 06:15:37 PM
 :!  Peace imrankhawaja from what experience are you speaking from,
are you a cat guardian, have you ever had a "fixed" cat, have you
had a non fixed cat? what perspective are you coming from


who are we to decide ? wild animals deserve to live like wild...

 imrankhawaja, my cat is not a wild but domesticated she watches TV.   :)


Quote from: imrankhawaja who are we to decide ? wild animals deserve to live like wild...

what if you cut the wings of bird

Why would we do such a thing?   :nope:



CAT belong to family of hunters like lion, leapords, tiger, panther, cheeta etc..

 ;D  being neutered doesn't stop a cat from hunting on the contrary spaying
has health benefits that safeguards the animal from diseases, fleas and other
dangers like fights or being killed by autos or being  attacked by dogs.

(same question from you) just apply it on yourself do you like someone do your neutring against your wish ?



by your logic we should not have seeing eye dogs because they are
neutered or spayed.  Let's not forget that military dogs are fixed.
Additionally those slave animals of 5:4 should be free.

 :rotfl:   :rotfl:  but seriously   :rotfl:   :hmm   killing animals and eating them
is ok, but neutering  :&  them is not   :rotfl:  OMG

..4:119 is not talking about your furniture lol

Yeah I know, my point was that 4:119 is about making sacred
that which is not like the cow or the slitting of the ears Imho.

Thanks good brother for taking time to read my nonsense.    :handshake:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 07, 2019, 08:32:35 PM
:!  Peace imrankhawaja from what experience are you speaking from,
are you a cat guardian, have you ever had a "fixed" cat, have you
had a non fixed cat? what perspective are you coming from

peace hawk,
never had any pet in my whole life, in my childhood wanted to have monkey but my wish never get fulfilled,

once i buy some chicken kids and the cat in our house ate them all .. she was such a B**** :rotfl:

imrankhawaja, my cat is not a wild but domesticated she watches TV.   :)

hmm u can also domesticate a lion or tiger he will watch tv with you .. some people does it too..

you can also trained him how to do pranks like people get done in circus.. we say its a well trained lion , not well educated  :hmm

Why would we do such a thing?   :nope:

same why would we do such a thing thats what i m saying too..

by your logic we should not have seeing eye dogs because they are
neutered or spayed.  Let's not forget that military dogs are fixed.
Additionally those slave animals of 5:4 should be free.


dogs are beneficial along with horses, camel, mules and donkey..
dogs help catching the criminals by sniff sense..
dogs help protecting us as watchman..
dogs help us in  hunting too.. so you are comparing dog with cat,, really  :rotfl: :rotfl: (what happened with your logic brother lol)
even some eskimos used dog as their transport..

:rotfl:   :rotfl:  but seriously   :rotfl:   :hmm   killing animals and eating them
is ok, but neutering  :&  them is not   :rotfl:  OMG

sometimes i think about it we eat and slaughter millions of innocent animals in the name of EID ul AZHA its off-topic.. but even in normal routine we kill animals for getting food from them and they are in our showcases.. when we apply the same things on human then we give it a name horror movie.. "WRONG TURN" is good example when they hunt humans and keep their brian, eyes,liver etc in fridge..

although you are talking about the LIVESTOCK  animals what God created for us so that we can get food, protein, nutrients from them what we need for our bodies, becoz vegan will not let us have all the things what we need in our daily routine..IMO

you and me right now killing thousands of bacteria(animal) for surviving ourself.. can we stop our breath ?

Your God told you to do that one day you ask it from God why so much pain in this life?
 he properly told you how to slaughter those livestock..  God created them for that purpose IMHO..

Thanks good brother for taking time to read my nonsense.    :handshake:

you welcome good brother as always people forget to give the important response i m feeling you also missed it.

think someone remove your reproduction organs without your wish ? how you will feel   :peace:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on June 08, 2019, 04:04:00 AM
peace,

We have no authority to bring our own rules in a system which is not ours; we are just creatures like any other thing in this universe, meant to serve our Creator. This earth, its water, air, trees, animals, birds etc. are not our property/possession. God subjugated animals for us for different purposes like food, to guard, help in hunting etc. But that doesn’t mean we can do anything with animals if scientists/animal experts agree with that. Did the Creator give animals their organs for no reason? How people can claim that ‘the animal has no issue’ after altering/removing some of its body parts without the permission of its Creator/the animal? How humans (science and technology) can know the true internal systems (e.g. feelings) of an animal like its Creator knows? If scientists say something is right today, they may find it wrong tomorrow. It’s just human understanding. Our understanding has limitations, which can harm the animal.
(E.g. Neutering cats/dogs, Applying methods for killing animals other than what the Creator says etc.)
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: hawk99 on June 08, 2019, 11:07:52 AM
peace hawk,
never had any pet in my whole life,

So apparently you speak from inexperience, while I speak from experience.
I've had both neutered/spayed animals and non neutered/spayed animals.
But I digress, your inexperience is more valuable than my experience.   ;D

hmm u can also domesticate a lion or tiger he will watch tv with you .. some people does it too..



no you cannot domesticate a lion or tiger   :brickwall: they can be trained
but not domesticated.  Do not go to a pet shop and ask for a lion or tiger.   :&

dogs are beneficial along with horses, camel, mules and donkey..
dogs help catching the criminals by sniff sense..
dogs help protecting us as watchman..
dogs help us in  hunting too.. so you are comparing dog with cat,, really  :rotfl: :rotfl: (what happened with your logic brother lol)
even some eskimos used dog as their transport..


uh you forgot cats remove rodents from houses. 

                                                      :peace:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 08, 2019, 08:50:26 PM
So apparently you speak from inexperience, while I speak from experience.
I've had both neutered/spayed animals and non neutered/spayed animals.
But I digress, your inexperience is more valuable than my experience.   ;D

peace brother hawk,
i think i should have explained you fully what i meant by experience or also inexperience..

my uncles /cousins own the pet where i spend my childhood i have experience of MANY cats, dogs(alsession, dabourman), birds(different kinds), hens, & family,rabbits, ostrich and also GOATfor eid some times they buy before months.. also one of my uncle frd owned a monkey thats why i told you i wanted to have my own monkey on other words everything got price to buy.. HOW quickly you come to conclusion about my experience quite OPTIMISTC    :hmm

some cats leave hairs that why i never wanted to have any domestic cat whenever i live alone, or atleast in my room premesis..

now coming back to IN(experience),  :laugh:

you dnt need to get experience of murder by doing it,or robbery before making it, or violation/sin before committing it..

i still saying neutring is unethical .. i was thinking you will read my post and you have a courage to tell us HOW DO YOU FEEL IF SITUATION LIKE THIS YOU FACE ? anyway its up to you if you want people to do crime and then think about it what they do it after EXPERIENCE  :rotfl:.


 
no you cannot domesticate a lion or tiger   :brickwall: they can be trained
but not domesticated.  Do not go to a pet shop and ask for a lion or tiger.   :&

watch this my FRD ( sher-e-babbar)

DOMESTIC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHSyaRl9dVw)
WILD and INTERESTING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmjhxe_g56g)

uh you forgot cats remove rodents from houses. 

                                                      :peace:

but dnt you have any other option for removing them when you are living in 21ST century  common bro you make me laugh  now :rotfl:

MOUSETRAP
GLUE TRAP

also benefit apply only to those who have lot of rats in house  :yes

btw do u let your cat eat the rat in your room and leftover the rubbish  :yuck:
or what if she pee in the carpet  :yuck:
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: Mohammed. on September 29, 2019, 04:29:31 PM
We have parakeets but we don't keep them in a cage, we keep them in an extra room where they have a tree house. Imo they're much better off inside because they're not wild birds.
salaam Amra94,

A bird is a bird. It should be able to fly in the sky whenever it wants. Doesn’t matter what breed it is, sometimes they be prey to some other species or sometimes they fight - that is the law. (we actually don’t know what is going on in their life).

Qur’an mentions using animals, birds etc. for various purposes by humans. But that doesn’t mean they are not free.
Qur’an also says,
6:38 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered.

If God inspired/willed them to be with you, they won’t go away from you. But if they want to go, leave them!
Likewise if the cat wants to go with his mate let him. Never neuter it!

Quote
They would probably die of hunger within days if we set them free.
11:6 And there is not a creature on the earth but on God is its provision. And He knows where it dwells and where it hides. All is in a clear book.
15:20 And We have provided therein means of living, for you and for those to whom you are not providers.
Title: Re: Is it okay to get cats fixed
Post by: amin on September 29, 2019, 07:07:26 PM
Theres a old saying here, Killing is sin, but eating clears us out.

Some issues has to be seen with the outcome, if it comes out good, then i think no problems. Likewise if multiple people gets benefit, its OK, rather if its more of a selfish act then it will hurt our mind somehow, even if doesnt hurt others.