Free Minds

General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: Sarah on February 15, 2019, 04:27:32 PM

Title: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 15, 2019, 04:27:32 PM
Peace

If yes, how...
If no, why didn't it happen? Did you ever reach out? Do you find it hard to trust someone online?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: TellMeTheTruth on February 15, 2019, 08:50:24 PM
Salam Sarah!

What do you mean by 'Quran Only Believer'?

Peace!
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Wakas on February 16, 2019, 02:54:16 AM
Yes. I have met people from several countries, including the UK. There have also been small meetups and conferences (London and South Africa). There is almost certainly many more local meetups we don't know about.

It usually begins by getting to know them online, via here or FB etc then eventually a in person meetup.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Amra94 on February 16, 2019, 01:01:01 PM
I met my husband on Muslima.com, we both reject hadiths but we do read previous scriptures.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: quincy on February 16, 2019, 01:24:02 PM
Peace!

Nope.

The Qur'an alone movement reminds me of Evangelists who are just skipping the old testament. I also read the previous scriptures, i even accept some Hadith of the Lore as authentic. But its like only 1%.

You dont even need a scripture or religion to get closer to GOD.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 02:51:25 PM
Peace!

Nope.

The Qur'an alone movement reminds me of Evangelists who are just skipping the old testament. I also read the previous scriptures, i even accept some Hadith of the Lore as authentic. But its like only 1%.

You dont even need a scripture or religion to get closer to GOD.

Peace

I don't know about previous scriptures but the Qur'an is fully detailed so believing in hadith on top of the already fully detailed scripture (where you do not need extra religious laws since all the laws are already in the Qur'an) would indicate that a person doesn't believe God when He says it is fully detailed. Even if a hadith doesn't contradict the Qur'an, God never authorised hadith as a religious teaching we should follow/ believe in.

If we already know the Qur'an, I doubt we are going to be saved from Hell if we do not make it a part of our lives...how are you going to be 'close' to God if you don't even read his message? It's a bit like ignoring the text messages from someone you claim to be a best friend.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 02:55:39 PM
Salam Sarah!

What do you mean by 'Quran Only Believer'?

Peace!

Wassalam TellMeTheTruth...
A Muslim who believes in the Qur'an alone as the scripture we should be following and who rejects hadith.

Peacee
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: quincy on February 16, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
First step is to search GOD within. Not through scriptures. Thats why you have all the different intepretations. But still, yes Qur'an is very important and even when ALLAH says that Qur'an is detailed, he doesnt forbid to read other scriptures. Im only telling that you wont go to Hell for only not knowing what there is in the Qur'an. There are also good people in other faiths who base their faith on other scriptures. The Lore of Muhammad is not only about the law and i base the law entirely on the Qur'an.

Peace, Sister.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 03:09:26 PM
Yes. I have met people from several countries, including the UK. There have also been small meetups and conferences (London and South Africa). There is almost certainly many more local meetups we don't know about.

It usually begins by getting to know them online, via here or FB etc then eventually a in person meetup.

You're lucky to have had such experiences Wakas. How do you trust people you meet online though? I mean, they could be ANYONE...
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 03:15:09 PM
First step is to search GOD within. Not through scriptures. Thats why you have all the different intepretations. But still, yes Qur'an is very important and even when ALLAH says that Qur'an is detailed, he doesnt forbid to read other scriptures. Im only telling that you wont go to Hell for only not knowing what there is in the Qur'an. There are also good people in other faiths who base their faith on other scriptures.

Peace, Sister.

You misunderstood me. We can read other scriptures but since they've been altered by man, we cannot follow them (from my understanding). We can only follow the Qur'an since t's the only scripture that has not been altered. If you were to follow everything or some things in the Bible for instance, you wouldn't know if verse x or y is an altered or unaltered part of the Bible. Then you'd be questioned by God about this. However, reading the Bible as general knowledge is fine.

I agree, there are also good people from other faiths. But a lot of them have not understood that the Qur'an is the last and final revelation and that their books have been tampered with...if I decided for example that i'm going to be a good Christian from tomorrow onwards and forget the Qur'an or not follow it and follow the Bible instead, that would make me a rejector of God's final revelation. It's different from someone who's never really understood the message of the Qur'an and never read it before in their life.

'Or have they not looked at the realm of the heavens and the earth and all things which God has created, and that perhaps their time may be drawing near? Which hadith after this (Quran) do they believe in?' 7:185
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: quincy on February 16, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
Just reading everything on the basis of the Qur'an. I dont see a problem there.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 03:21:25 PM
I met my husband on Muslima.com, we both reject hadiths but we do read previous scriptures.

You're lucky, hope your marriage is blessed sister.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 03:22:34 PM
Just reading everything on the basis of the Qur'an. I dont see a problem there.

So you agree with what I'm saying?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: quincy on February 16, 2019, 03:25:45 PM
Yes. If you read everything on the basis of the Qur'an its obvious whats altered and which part of the Lore is authentic or unauthentic. But still, i dont like Muslims who are demonizing other scriptures and the Lore of Muhammad. I simply dont like where the Qur'an alone movement is going.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Sarah on February 16, 2019, 03:38:35 PM
Yes. If you read everything on the basis of the Qur'an its obvious whats altered and which part of the Lore is authentic or unauthentic. But still, i dont like Muslims who are demonizing other scriptures and the Lore of Muhammad. I simply dont like where the Qur'an alone movement is going.

The previous scriptures have been altered. Do you not agree? There's good and bad in them...something that's been tampered with by man cannot be 100% good.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Scrappy-doo on May 25, 2019, 02:40:37 AM
Yes of course. I have met a few in London, I have been to Speakers Corner, and met a couple. I have been invited to a London meet up next weekend. If you are in London you are welcome to join.  :)
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on May 27, 2019, 02:28:51 AM
Peace

If yes, how...
If no, why didn't it happen? Did you ever reach out? Do you find it hard to trust someone online?

I've met many muslims (without the capital M) throughout my life.
They came from many identities, cultural background, yet their wise, serene and caring feeling just radiate away.

Some examples:
- A Christian orthodox priest who I met on the train through Carphatians mountain who makes me realize the real meanings of the word muslim.
- A Jewish priest who I met on a plane which reveal the ultimate reason why there is only one God thus what God really is.
- A budhist monk in Thailand which reveal the meaning of enlightenment.
- A floor cleaner in Istanbul who teached me the meaning of being patience.
And many many others..


I agree, there are also good people from other faiths. But a lot of them have not understood that the Qur'an is the last and final revelation and that their books have been tampered with...if I decided for example that i'm going to be a good Christian from tomorrow onwards and forget the Qur'an or not follow it and follow the Bible instead, that would make me a rejector of God's final revelation. It's different from someone who's never really understood the message of the Qur'an and never read it before in their life.

You definitely have a lot to learn in life...

But still, i dont like Muslims who are demonizing other scriptures and the Lore of Muhammad. I simply dont like where the Qur'an alone movement is going.

The "Quran Alone movement" is heading towards a cult, sect with Quran as it's idol.
It's obvious given the cultural background of the member were also coming from another sectarian culture.
The mindset is the same only the dressing is different.

They see that by demonizing other scriptures (and also other tradition / identities / religion) will ensure the superiority of their idol (in this case a scripture) thus ensuring the superiority of their cult / sect / religion / identity as the one and only truest cult / sect / religion / identity.

Only very few realize that they also need to change the mindset.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on May 27, 2019, 02:59:03 AM
Peace Jafar..

So ,if one values GOD Alone and loves GOD the most, they are idolising GOD? Or is it not a question of GOD Alone deserves the utmost love?

Similarly when you say , quote:
The "Quran Alone movement" is heading towards a cult, sect with Quran as it's idol...

Your statement is general ,hence wrong. You could have said "...Some Qoran alone movements..."

Surely if one values GOD they should also value His words-Qoran- if they have proof Qoran is the word of GOD, unless someone else has proof Qoran is man s words to counter theirs!!!!

So following anything is a sect. There should be only one sect-GOD Alone sect- uniting on being in one mindset with GOD s system of the straight path and justice/freedom for all.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on May 28, 2019, 12:44:20 PM

So ,if one values GOD Alone and loves GOD the most, they are idolising GOD? Or is it not a question of GOD Alone deserves the utmost love?

If you values God, you will value all things..
If you loves GOD, you will love everyone and everything...

Again.. it come back to one definition of what is God?
Thus "God Alone" is nonsensical in a way... given God is All and more..

Quote
Similarly when you say , quote:
The "Quran Alone movement" is heading towards a cult, sect with Quran as it's idol...
Your statement is general ,hence wrong. You could have said "...Some Qoran alone movements..."

It depends on one definition of "Quran Alone Movement".
If he/she views that :
- Something is true (or false) just because the Quran said so..
- There is no truth outside of Quran and/or Quran is nothing but only truth

Then yes.. he/she is idolizing the book titled Quran..

Quote
Surely if one values GOD they should also value His words-Qoran- if they have proof Qoran is the word of GOD, unless someone else has proof Qoran is man s words to counter theirs!!!!
The above is a very good example of how "Quran Idolizing" mindset works..
Quran = God, God = Quran.

Similar to:
Jesus = God, God = Jesus
Marduk Statue = God, God = Marduk Statue
and so on and so on..

All books are written by human for human.
All statue are molded by human for human.

By the way, if one loves God then he/she will loves All...

Quote
So following anything is a sect. There should be only one sect-GOD Alone sect- uniting on being in one mindset with GOD s system of the straight path and justice/freedom for all.

A critical characteristic of a SECT / CULT / RELIGION is an existence of DOGMA.
Dogma = Idea / Belief which MUST NOT be questioned.

All member of the sect / cult / religion must just obey, samina waatona, we hear and we obey.. and never ever dare to question the validity of the dogma. Those who dare to question let alone dare to state that the dogma is false / illogical / doesn't make sense must be PUNISHED, in order to maintain the 'purity' of the sect / cult / religion. By purity here means TOTAL OBEDIENCE.

This also resulted in the need of something to bond the member of the sect together. Something which makes them feel unique and superior compared to those who are outside of the sect.
Thus gives birth to yet another set of dogmas, such as:
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/*Put your favorite sect here*> are on the side of God others are enemy of God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/*Put your favorite sect here*> will be rewarded by God others will be tortured by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/*Put your favorite sect here*> are the chosen by God others are unchosen by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/*Put your favorite sect here*> have book that is truly written by God others are not written by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/*Put your favorite sect here*> is the truest and purest group others are false / lower in status / made to serve us.

And many others of Superiorism dogma...
All are invented to keep the sect together, thus no one will dare to leave the sect.

But herewith the rule that is applicable in this universe.. with abundant evidence observable throughout any time in history.
"For those who exalt themselves they will be humbled, and those who humble themselves they will be exalted."
-- Matt 23

Whether the above sentence was written by God or human or animal or alien or whatever doesn't really matter, as it's truthfulness can be clearly observed.. Or putting the logic in reverse: truth is truth, a statement of truth doesn't requires any claim of "written / authored by God" as it's truthfulness can be clearly seen.


Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 28, 2019, 12:59:27 PM
Well said and totally logical @ jaffar

Even people can find this attitude in book called quran when ibless said "i m better than him" and he get disqualified from the status he was having.

Problem started when people dnt TREAT people the way they want to get treated.

Also Author claimed many times all nation/all things/all time/space belong to God alone.(universal true God) depends on what God they having in mind.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on May 28, 2019, 08:05:23 PM
Greetings and Peace, all  :group:

4:94 O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to he who greets you with peace: "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do.

22:67 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.

5:69 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

22:17 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, and the Zoroastrians; and those who were polytheists; God will separate between them on the Day of Resurrection. For God is witness over all things.

So...the Almighty knows best who is a believer, that is not for us to say who is and who isn't. The various faiths and philosophies have varying rites, as we have our own, and this is okay and not to be an area of contention. Lastly truth and a positive outcome on Judgment Day is not limited to those who call Islam their deen.

I'd argue that since all Prophets (peace upon them all) came with the same message, if a Christian is one who follows the teachings and example of Jesus, then anyone who follows the teachings and example of Muhammad is also a Christian (in that definition of Christian).

Anyone who worships the message has gone far astray, as has anyone who worships a messenger or asks for the intercession of either. Those who blindly follow what they find others doing, whether here or anywhere else is setting themselves up for a disappointment. On the other hand, reasoned discourse benefits many ISA, and can provide leads for others to check and verify for themselves.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi   
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 28, 2019, 10:17:49 PM
22:18 Do you not see that to God submits everyone in the heavens and everyone on earth? And the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees - and all kinds of living beings that crawl on their belly, walk on two or four feet, or fly - and many of the human beings submit to Him. But there are numerous human beings who incur retribution. Whoever disgraces himself according to God?s law, for him, there is none that can raise him to honor. God has control over all things and events and He does everything according to His laws

if one can understand this deep verse just after the verse 22:17 then the views of jafar are perfectly matching with the criteria of what the author of book quran is advising to the readers...

metaphoric approach towards quran/bible/tora/veda instead of literal is key to understand the message. ( same like the interpretation of poetry can only described best by the creator of poetry what we said as poet )

i remember understanding the poems what were in my own language and my teachers explains those poetry with totally different angle than literal words.. even the poets are/were already describe what they mean by it.. still we struggle understanding it so its same for the native speaker or non native speaker to understand the message behind poetry.. imagine if we dnt have the explaination by poet we all will have new ideas and lot  of ideas of one poem depend from mind to mind..

exActly this thing  happened with our so called book/s the first explainers were (bukhari and company/paul and company) etc who themselves were the students of understanding and later people take their poetry explaination as the law beside LAW.

our teachers in the field of religious poetry appeared as either weak or either corrupt or confirm racist due to which people divide in different groups of understandings..

overcoming on that fear is key of success, we are programmed not to go against our own BOOK/TEAM/NATION/IDEA. even after knowing the truth we dnt dare to share our truth  FEAR is the enemy of common sense..
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mohammed. on May 29, 2019, 03:12:29 AM
22:67 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

peace,

This is my translation and I would like to share some more verses after 22:67

22:67 To every nation We made a ritual or method of worship they are practicing the rituals or methods of worship, so they do not dispute/quarrel with you in the matter/affair, and call(them) to your Lord, that you are on straight/direct guidance.

22:68 And if they argued/disputed with you, so say: "God (is) more knowledgeable with what you make/do."

22:69 "God judges/rules between you (on) the Resurrection Day, in what you were in it differing/disagreeing.

22:71. And they worship from other than God what He did not descend with it a proof/evidence, and what (there) is not for them with it knowledge, and (there is) no victorior/savior to the unjust/oppressive.


Quote
5:69 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

one verse before 5:69
5:68 Say: "You The Book's people, you are not on a thing, until you keep up the Torah and the Injeel, and what was descended to you from your Lord ." And what was descended to you(Muhammad) from your Lord increases many of them tyranny/arrogance, and disbelief, so do not grieve/sadden on the nation, the disbelieving.


Quote
I'd argue that since all Prophets (peace upon them all) came with the same message, if a Christian is one who follows the teachings and example of Jesus, then anyone who follows the teachings and example of Muhammad is also a Christian (in that definition of Christian).

Are you sure that Christians are following the teachings and example of Jesus? If they were, they would have accept the truth.[ the true islam ]
Why Qur’an says “O you who believe” oftentimes?

Jews and Nazarenes/Christians were sects among 'the people of the Book’ who followed their desires. See 2:120-121, 2:140, 9:30, 5:18 [ like those today who follows their desires other than the Qur'an ]

3:19
That truly the dheen/system at God, (is) the islam/submission/surrender, and those who were given The Book did not differ/disagree/dispute, except from after what (that) the knowledge came to them, out of jealousy/oppression between them, and who disbelieves with God's signs/verses, so that God (is) swift in reckoning.

48:28
He is who sent His messenger with the guidance and the truths' dheen to make it apparent/visible/overcome on/over the dheen/system all of it, and enough/sufficient with God (as) a witness.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on May 29, 2019, 09:08:29 AM
Peace Jafar.
I get your general point. But when you say this ,Quote:

All books are written by human for human.

So the mushaf -Qoran- is written by a human, but who authored /originated/ came up with the contents...of Qoran? Please give evidence.

You have dodged this question so many times in the past. At least give us your view of the origin/source of Qoran s contents.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on May 29, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
So the mushaf -Qoran- is written by a human, but who authored /originated/ came up with the contents...of Qoran? Please give evidence.

You have dodged this question so many times in the past. At least give us your view of the origin/source of Qoran s contents.

Q: Who authored the contents of the book titled Quran?
A: People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.

But anyway the above doesn't matter, except to those who idolized the Quran..

Now back to the original issue being discussed.

You yes.. you ... have direct access to God, the true God.
No idols / books / tablet / other human stand in between.
You don't need them...

And so does he, her and them.. everyone have direct access to God.
There is no such thing as "Only VIP" have direct access to God, if anybody tell you as such I can tell you they're a liar. So does those who said "God's revelation has ended"... they're BS-ing you...

All you need to do is ASK.
And answer will come.

Don't bother about what language to use, what words to say, which direction to face, what time in a day yadayadayada..
Even when you're deaf or mute.. that is not a hindrance...
The true God knows the question even long before you say it...

The answer can come through any medium.. all things are medium for the true God.

I've given some example of the medium based on my own personal experience, Orthodox Monks, Jewish Rabbi, Buddhist Monks, Janitor, Taxi Driver just to name a few. You might received from other medium than stated above, it can be books, ebooks, forum posting, picture, falling apple from the tree.. whatever. there is no such thing as 'truest messengers' or 'truest medium' because as saith earlier all things are medium for the true God. The true God controls everything....

How do you know it?
You will know...
The true messenger will never ask you to testify that he/she/it is a messenger, and they will not even realized it themselves..

But.. after the answer came.. here's the catch.. sometimes you might not like it...

"Ask and it shall be given, Seek and you shall find, Knock and it will be opened to you"
Matt 7

Note: please stop debating whether the above quotation was really authored by God or not, because it doesn't matter..





Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on May 30, 2019, 02:15:54 AM
Peace Jafar.
So we should just accept this statement about the authorship of Qoran from you brother, quote:

A: People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.

How contradictory can you get/?And you expect people to use their logic and investigate?
 You are setting a bad example of hypocrisy
Please come up with your evidence , or accept that this is your own opinion and assumption.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on May 31, 2019, 10:23:52 AM
Peace Jafar.
So we should just accept this statement about the authorship of Qoran from you brother, quote:

A: People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.

How contradictory can you get/?And you expect people to use their logic and investigate?
 You are setting a bad example of hypocrisy
Please come up with your evidence , or accept that this is your own opinion and assumption.

LOL..
NO I'm not asking anyone to accept any statement...
Especially around petty issue such as who actually authored a book.
Definitely for sure it was a human, the same as any other books...

But this is again a specific characteristic of a sect / cult / religion.
Making a fuss over things which doesn't matter...
And miss out the more important aspect of the message..

Yet I understand how difficult it is to reflect upon ourselves.. and how easy it is to judge upon others..
Thus I will take another example.

Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true color of Krishna.. 
Whether it is red, blue or black.
I will say if Krishna did exist then his color is either dark brownish or light brown just like any other natural skin color of human being.
The cult will reply back with: bring your evidence that Krishna's color was either dark brown or light brown..
But hey.. how does it matter what Krishna's true color is???  :rotfl: :rotfl:
It only matter to those who idolize Krishna...

Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true nature of Jesus
Whether he is a god, a half god half human, true god true human or only human.
I will say if Jesus did exist then definitely he is a human being just like any other human being.
The cult will reply back with bring your evidence that Jesus was only a human being.
But hey.. how does it matter what Jesus was???  :rotfl: :rotfl:
It only matter to those who idolize Jesus...

Now back for the home base...

Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true author of Quran.
Whether it was a god, or human or a group of human.
I will say given Quran is a book, just like any other book then definitely it was authored by human or a group of human.
The cult will reply back with: bring your evidence that Quran was authored by human?
But hey.. how does it matter who authored the Quran???  :rotfl: :rotfl:
It only matter to those who idolize Quran..

Again I repeat the important message now.

Everyone have DIRECT access to the true God.
Any questions/worries you have in your mind, just ASK HIM.
He will answer.

Some power hungry people will try to gain advantage acting and claiming as 'the ultimate broker' to God. They can do this directly.. or indirectly, through intermediary of idols... where he/she/they control some aspect of the idols. They will say that you cannot access God directly, God only talks to the VIPs or you can access God only through this idol as intermediary.. or God no longer want to talk to you He has wrote a book which marks the end of His revelation.  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

All of them are BS-ing you..
You.. all of you have direct access to the true God just ASK HIM.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on May 31, 2019, 03:09:28 PM
Peace Jafar.
Your post is just dodging the issue. Who authored Qoran?
If you are not prepared to bring evidence or accept you are not sure and you are making an assumption ,then your replies  have no real meaning .
 Diverting, changing the subject, and hoping the issue will go away will not work.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on May 31, 2019, 09:50:49 PM
EVIDENCE = ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TqSGpPPBXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TqSGpPPBXA)

i think some individuals need to see this video and get a lesson even athiest  :voodoo: EDIP and he was stumped and lost badly...

apparently atheist wins over him with the eye of neutrality...

although without any (holybooks/holy code) it can be interesting debate  between athiest  vs believer of original God(creator).

coders are helpless atheist smashed their idol called 19.
jafar we need you to call them i bet you can give them hard time...(i have faith on you)  ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 01, 2019, 01:40:51 AM
Imran, do you believe that a human/humans authored Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 01, 2019, 08:59:21 PM
Imran, do you believe that a human/humans authored Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace

GL first of all tell me which quran you are talking about ?  :hmm

1 khalifa version (without 9/128-129)
2 hafs/warsh version  :peace:
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on June 01, 2019, 11:45:17 PM
Peace Jafar.
Your post is just dodging the issue. Who authored Qoran?
If you are not prepared to bring evidence or accept you are not sure and you are making an assumption ,then your replies  have no real meaning .

I've given you straight and plain answer...  it was written by Human just like any other books, stone tablets, scriptures, scrolls, ebook, software etc..
But again like I said you missed out the point..

Perhaps I need to add more points to make it clear.
- I DON'T CARE what is the true color of Krishna, the true nature of Jesus, who actually wrote the Torah, who actually wrote the Veda and who actually wrote the Quran. It's not important at all. Only the cult member of respective idols that do care about such menial stuff.
- It is perfectly fine if you believe the Veda was written by Gods, Harry Potter was written by God, Babylonian law was written by Marduk, Torah was written by YHVH, Quran was written by Allah, Book Of The Dead was written by Osiris, Nazca lines was written by Alien. It is your rights to believe in anything that you want and so does everyone's rights to believe in whatever they want. I have no interest in changing the way you believe in things.
- Again I repeat: Everyone have direct access to the true God, why not try asking him for whatever issues that you (or anyone else) might have. And curiosity is NOT BAD / EVIL. Every human was born with such traits and nothing wrong with that. Always be curious and always ask questions thus you will receive more answers / revelation. The holy books might shunned such attitude as it was actually written to control people and as a mean to ensure obedience towards cult members.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 02, 2019, 02:58:41 AM
Peace Jafar.
You not caring does not make your statement  about Qoran true.
At least take on board that you are making an assumption without proper  study/research and evidence .

You are advising this:"Always be curious and always ask questions"? Are you doing this properly to find out about Qoran?
Its Author says:

This is a revelation from the Lord of the universe   The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.
To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners.

In a perfect Arabic tongue.
It has been prophesied in the books of previous generations.

Is it not a sufficient sign for them that it was known to the scholars among the Children of Israel?
 
If we revealed this to people who do not know Arabic.
And had him recite it (in Arabic), they could not possibly believe in it.

We thus render it (like a foreign language) in the hearts of the guilty.
….
Or is it in a foreign language to you brother Jafar?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 02, 2019, 03:01:24 AM
Brother Imran.
Your version that you have studied/looked at(Any of your choice). The Arabic text version of course.
GOD bless you.
Peace..
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 02, 2019, 12:10:11 PM
peace GL,

you dodged the QUESTION  :rotfl:

did u see that video and "shame shame" of EDIP ?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Layth on June 02, 2019, 12:27:47 PM
Peace.

I had a look at he video. To use the argument of 19 to prove God?s existence to Atheists seems to be quite a circular argument to make. Best to leave the rejectors alone until they find their own way (if ever).   
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: SarahY on June 02, 2019, 03:49:00 PM
This topic has wound up strangely.. feels like a mutazila and ashari argument of Quran and its createdness and uncreatedness.

Jafar. Good Logic, people can believe in God without religion but I also think religion helps people remember God or even help them make a connection with God. We follow a path we think is ?truest? but no matter what belief we hold we have our own bias and limitations. What we thought was true or right 10-20 years ago may not be the same thought today.

As for the original post yes I met people online in person who follow the Quranic approach. It was always during the day at a public place shopping centre, cafe and university. Sometimes with a friend or alone or with a group of others.

Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 02, 2019, 11:33:32 PM
Peace Imran.
Who authored the Qoran that the prophet received(the version you believe he received, if you do. )?

Is this not a clear question?
 
Peace Layth and Sarah
Both your posts are blank?.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Layth on June 03, 2019, 01:31:16 AM
That?s strange. I can see my posts. Can u send me a screenshot so I can have a closer look?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Wakas on June 03, 2019, 04:33:17 AM
I can also see the posts.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: SarahY on June 03, 2019, 06:36:11 AM
It was blank for me earlier but now it's there
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 03, 2019, 09:59:16 AM
I still cannot see both Layth s and earlier Sarah s posts?
There is just blank space..
They are the only three blank  posts in the whole thread?
GOD bless .
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: The Sardar on June 03, 2019, 11:52:27 AM
Salam/Peace brother Good Logic, click on Quote on the blank spaces, you will see the missing text and the cause is black diamond shaped with question marks. It happened when the forum updated the place last year.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 03, 2019, 12:58:04 PM
i can also see the posts.

Gl dodged the question second time do one more it will b a hatrick  :rotfl:

BTW i ll help u brother i wil copy the posts of sarah and layth becoz u can see my posts and second reason both said beautiful words as always i love sharing their words for you look how helpful i am lol

LAYTH
Peace.

I had a look at he video. To use the argument of 19 to prove God?s existence to Atheists seems to be quite a circular argument to make. Best to leave the rejectors alone until they find their own way (if ever).   

SARAH
This topic has wound up strangely.. feels like a mutazila and ashari argument of Quran and its createdness and uncreatedness.

Jafar. Good Logic, people can believe in God without religion but I also think religion helps people remember God or even help them make a connection with God. We follow a path we think is ?truest? but no matter what belief we hold we have our own bias and limitations. What we thought was true or right 10-20 years ago may not be the same thought today.

As for the original post yes I met people online in person who follow the Quranic approach. It was always during the day at a public place shopping centre, cafe and university. Sometimes with a friend or alone or with a group of others.

 :bravo: for both of those brilliant FREE minds

GL just wonder why u blind to those posts may b hint from.God lol jk

Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 03, 2019, 01:33:07 PM
i can also see the posts.

Gl dodged the question second time do one more it will b a hatrick  :rotfl:

BTW i ll help u brother i wil copy the posts of sarah and layth becoz u can see my posts and second reason both said beautiful words as always i love sharing their words for you look how helpful i am lol

LAYTH
Peace.

I had a look at he video. To use the argument of 19 to prove God�s existence to Atheists seems to be quite a circular argument to make. Best to leave the rejectors alone until they find their own way (if ever).   

SARAH
This topic has wound up strangely.. feels like a mutazila and ashari argument of Quran and its createdness and uncreatedness.

Jafar. Good Logic, people can believe in God without religion but I also think religion helps people remember God or even help them make a connection with God. We follow a path we think is �truest� but no matter what belief we hold we have our own bias and limitations. What we thought was true or right 10-20 years ago may not be the same thought today.

As for the original post yes I met people online in person who follow the Quranic approach. It was always during the day at a public place shopping centre, cafe and university. Sometimes with a friend or alone or with a group of others.

 :bravo: for both of those brilliant FREE minds

GL just wonder why u blind to those posts may b hint from.God lol jk

This is explicitly written in the Divine Discourse. The First thing the Author of Qur'an argues with the reader is on this subject.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 03, 2019, 01:51:48 PM
The Classification of Human beings with reference to the Concept of God as mentioned in Divine Discourse are as follows:

1. Atheists; those who consider and believe not in the existence of: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/9.gif)  God;

2. Monotheists; those who believe in the existence of solitary: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/9.gif)  i.e. (http://haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00002.%20Allah/Ilaha%20wahid.gif) ; The Solitary God, the One Who maintains Singularity;

3. Dualists (Dualism-Zoroaster); those who believe in the existence of:  (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/11.gif) two Gods;

4. Trinity; those who believe in the concept of Trinity - three Gods;

5. Those who say Easa (alahissalam) son of Maryam the truthful is but Allah (the God)

6. Polytheists; those who believe in the existence of: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/6.gif) many Gods.

7. Those who adopt self-indulgences—desire - vested interest - passion - hypothetical conjectures as his iela'aha: god.

Likewise there are 7 apartments of Hell Prison allocated each for a separate identity.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 03, 2019, 07:18:45 PM
peace brother mazhar,

there is another group  who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God = AGNOSTIC
they are different than atheist who totally reject GOD.

also there are sub-groups like some branches of shia islam consider ali as God
some early groups who consider sun/moon/sirius as a GOD..
some believe force of nature is GOD...
some tribal groups have their own God like maya civilisation
movie Apocalypto (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472043/) is interesting to watch about the traditions what they have about their GOD/s.
even some of them believe TIME as god..


Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Jafar on June 04, 2019, 12:59:41 AM
Likewise there are 7 apartments of Hell Prison allocated each for a separate identity.
Judge not and you shall not be judged..
By the standards that you judged others, the same standards will be judged upon you.

As clearly evidenced by this thread alone, anyone can fall into sectarianism and idolatry.
It's majority influenced by their surroundings.
Surrounding tradition, people, culture, family, friends.
Only very very few will be able to break through...

It's very easy for human to accuse others of 'idolatry' and it's very hard for them to see how themselves are actually also guilty by the same charge.  There is a reason for it, it is caused by how human brain works.

And here's the catch: ALL of it happened in accordance to God's will and plan.
Thus I see it as 'normal' and it's ridiculous that God will be angry because of it, let alone inflicted terrible torture in prison.. it's totally illogical.

As similitude this is the same as saying that the director of the movie / screenplay will punish the actor who played the villain role. The actor is just executing the script that was designed by the director. The audience however might think that the actor is truly evil because of his role in the play designed by the director.

Here's again I repeat the important message:
You and everyone else have direct access to God, whatever label that you label yourselves or whatever label that others put upon you. Reach out to Him, don't be afraid, the true God is not a mean God who love to torture. He knows your condition and needs much better than yourselves. His love for you and everything else is unconditional love.

there is another group  who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God = AGNOSTIC
they are different than atheist who totally reject GOD.

also there are sub-groups like some branches of shia islam consider ali as God
some early groups who consider sun/moon/sirius as a GOD..
some believe force of nature is GOD...
some tribal groups have their own God like maya civilisation
movie Apocalypto (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472043/) is interesting to watch about the traditions what they have about their GOD/s.
even some of them believe TIME as god..

Yes and there are also others who idolize holy books as the only mean to reach God.. but all of it happened in accordance to God's plan.

Zoom out... breakthrough from sectarian mindset.. see things from higher perspective.
Only then you will be able to stop judging and start understanding..

Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 06:57:34 AM
Quote
Quote from: Mazhar on Yesterday at 01:51:48 PM
Likewise there are 7 apartments of Hell Prison allocated each for a separate identity.
Judge not and you shall not be judged..

It is not judging. A fact is mentioned by no one but by the Ultimate Judge.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 04, 2019, 07:44:35 AM
Peace Imran.
I have read all the posts . I get what they say,  what you say and what Jafar says..

My question to you is still standing . Who do you think authored Qoran(Any version you believe it is Qoran)?
 Jafar gave us his view that human/s have written/copied/authored Qoran. I asked him to elaborate on/show  his evidence.

You have not given an answer.. That is fine if you clarify you do not want to say!.
GOD bless you
Peace
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 08:54:57 AM
peace brother mazhar,

there is another group  who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God = AGNOSTIC
they are different than atheist who totally reject GOD.

also there are sub-groups like some branches of shia islam consider ali as God
some early groups who consider sun/moon/sirius as a GOD..
some believe force of nature is GOD...
some tribal groups have their own God like maya civilisation
movie Apocalypto (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472043/) is interesting to watch about the traditions what they have about their GOD/s.
even some of them believe TIME as god..

Salam,,

I obtained information only from Qur'an.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 09:44:10 AM
Salam,,

I obtained information only from Qur'an.

But there is lot of information  outside the quran too ..(before and after)
Also author said about showing the signs in horizon and within themselves continously in future.

And interestingly whats about the verse regarding the LORD of sirius its definately in quran. U missed the sirius worshippers lol

@ GL congratulations now u can see the posts and also use your brain to understand those posts and think bout all those posts where u failed in understanding.

As i predicted u did hatrick of doging question sorry bro i cant help u more,

On other words i m not expert in teaching the thick minds lmao best of luck and are u still eating almonds its good for brain remember two yrs ago i suggest you about it. Thats the only help i can do so that u understand the posts of people as well as your own posts.

Happy eid to all forum  :group:

Btw its eid u already heard jafar answer
 Have my answer as eidi lol...

Here is mine for YOU
(Answer) the version in which GL believe is definately by human called khalifa.
He hijacked someone else work and edit that work a bit by holy code
He put his name on brackets in some of the verses that addressed to someone else.

Evidence can be checked by anybody who have access to the latest copy by messenger khalifa
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 09:53:31 AM
Quote
And interestingly whats about the verse regarding the LORD of sirius its definately in quran. U missed the sirius worshippers lol

(http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/053.%20An%20Najam/53.49.gif)

Rabb and Ilaha are two distinct concepts.

None calls his god as Rabb. Only Allah the Exalted is referred as Rabb of all that exists.

Only Pharoah claimed to be rabb of his subjects.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 09:59:10 AM
(http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/053.%20An%20Najam/53.49.gif)

Rabb and Ilaha are two distinct concepts.

So the catagories what i bring dnt have any place in hell prison ?

And second catagory monothiest whats their status ?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Iyyaka on June 04, 2019, 10:06:45 AM
The Classification of Human beings with reference to the Concept of God as mentioned in Divine Discourse are as follows:
1. Atheists; those who consider and believe not in the existence of: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/9.gif)  God;
2. Monotheists; those who believe in the existence of solitary: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/9.gif)  i.e. (http://haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00002.%20Allah/Ilaha%20wahid.gif) ; The Solitary God, the One Who maintains Singularity;
3. Dualists (Dualism-Zoroaster); those who believe in the existence of:  (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/11.gif) two Gods;
4. Trinity; those who believe in the concept of Trinity - three Gods;
5. Those who say Easa (alahissalam) son of Maryam the truthful is but Allah (the God)
6. Polytheists; those who believe in the existence of: (http://haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/2.%20Ilaha%20Alif%20Laam%20Haa/6.gif) many Gods.
7. Those who adopt self-indulgences—desire - vested interest - passion - hypothetical conjectures as his iela'aha: god.
Likewise there are 7 apartments of Hell Prison allocated each for a separate identity.
If I may, I think you should be more careful in your comments about who will go to hell or not.


God is the only judge.
Go to paradise is according to two criteria :
[2:62] Indeed, Those who had faith, those who became jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever had faith in Allah and the Last Day AND performed good deeds(fertile solidarity actions), for them their reward is with their responsible of evolution; and no fear on them, and not they will grieve.


There is obviously here a lack of historical knowledge about the concept of the trinity and the inter-religious environment at the beginning of the 7th century in Arabia.
To understand the Qur'an's approach to this problem it requires taking into account the complex religious situation of seventh-century Arabia

   (1) Trinity is not 3 gods.

The definition of the Trinity according to post-Chalcedonian Christianity (We thus understand the definition of the Trinity common to the Church of Rome, the Orthodox Church, the Patriarchate of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.):
This concept of the Trinity [to which we shall now refer by the terms Trinity, Christianity, Christian, Trinitarian, Christian Faith] is not a tritheism, but a single, consubstantial Trinity or Tri-Unity, unambiguously stated as follows: "We let us not confess three gods, but one God in three persons"(Definition established at the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553.) and God and the Son and the Holy Spirit are three hypostases of one and the same divine entity: God as a unique essence without change, without division and without separation.

   (2) Critical of the concept of Trinity (and not a sentence in hell!) :

If we naturally excludes verses improperly put into play by Islam-religion, when they concerned only the condemnation of certain Christian heresies, only one Qur'anic verse is really devoted to the question of the Trinity:
"O People of the Writing! Do not commit excess in your faith and say of God only the true: In truth, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary is a messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed to Maryam and a Spirit from Him. So have faith in God and His messengers and do not say, "(There are) Three"! Abstain, (it is) better for you, Only Allah is God one. Glory be to Him (His Transcendence) ! He can have no son! To him what is in Heaven and on Earth, and God is sufficient as guarantor! (4:171).

But the Quran strongly rejected a number of trinities of Christian heresies present at the time in Arabia (monophysism, tritheism, pseudo-collyridian tritheism, essentially ..)
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 10:26:14 AM
Quote
If I may, I think you should be more careful in your comments about who will go to hell or not.

It is very explicitly mentioned by Allah the Exalted as to who will go to Hell-Prison. Why you wish not to believe in the Word of Allah?
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 10:39:45 AM
Hell Prison is made for whom?


اأُعِدَّتْ لِلْـكَـٟفِرِينَ.2:24٢٤

This Heated Hell-Prison has been prepared for those who are the disavowers- non-believers. [2:24]


وَٱلَّذِينَ كَفَـروا۟ وَكَذَّبُوا۟ بِـٔ​َايَٟتِنَآ

And those who would have disavowed and publicly contradicted Our Aa'ya'at: verbal communications (passages of the Divine Book) —

ذہن نشین کر لو کہ وہ لوگ جنہوں نے انکارکر دیا اور ہماری پہنچائی گئی آیتوں کو لوگوں کے سامنے برملا جھٹلادیا

أُو۟لَـٟٓئِكَ أَصْحَـٟـبُ ٱلنَّارِۖ

They are the people who will be the resident inmates of scorching Hell-Prison —

تو یہی ہیں وہ لوگ جو زندان جہنم میں رہنے والے ہوں گے۔

هُـمْ فِيـهَا خَٟلِدُونَ.2:39٣٩

They will abide therein permanently. [2:39]

Some of them:


لَقَدْ كَفَـرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓا۟

Indeed those people have denounced faith-allegiance who said:

إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ هُوَ ٱلْمَسِيحُ ٱبْنُ مَـرْيَـمَۖ

"Allah is indeed he who is Al-Maseiha, the son of Maryam."


لَّقَدْ كَفَـرَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَٟثَـةٛۘ

Indeed those people denounced faith-allegiance who had said: "It is certain that Allah is third entity in the trinity."
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 10:45:10 AM
If I may, I think you should be more careful in your comments about who will go to hell or not.


God is the only judge.
Go to paradise is according to two criteria :
[2:62] Indeed, Those who had faith, those who became jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever had faith in Allah and the Last Day AND performed good deeds(fertile solidarity actions), for them their reward is with their responsible of evolution; and no fear on them, and not they will grieve.


There is obviously here a lack of historical knowledge about the concept of the trinity and the inter-religious environment at the beginning of the 7th century in Arabia.
To understand the Qur'an's approach to this problem it requires taking into account the complex religious situation of seventh-century Arabia

   (1) Trinity is not 3 gods.

The definition of the Trinity according to post-Chalcedonian Christianity (We thus understand the definition of the Trinity common to the Church of Rome, the Orthodox Church, the Patriarchate of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.):
This concept of the Trinity [to which we shall now refer by the terms Trinity, Christianity, Christian, Trinitarian, Christian Faith] is not a tritheism, but a single, consubstantial Trinity or Tri-Unity, unambiguously stated as follows: "We let us not confess three gods, but one God in three persons"(Definition established at the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553.) and God and the Son and the Holy Spirit are three hypostases of one and the same divine entity: God as a unique essence without change, without division and without separation.

   (2) Critical of the concept of Trinity (and not a sentence in hell!) :

If we naturally excludes verses improperly put into play by Islam-religion, when they concerned only the condemnation of certain Christian heresies, only one Qur'anic verse is really devoted to the question of the Trinity:
"O People of the Writing! Do not commit excess in your faith and say of God only the true: In truth, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary is a messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed to Maryam and a Spirit from Him. So have faith in God and His messengers and do not say, "(There are) Three"! Abstain, (it is) better for you, Only Allah is God one. Glory be to Him (His Transcendence) ! He can have no son! To him what is in Heaven and on Earth, and God is sufficient as guarantor! (4:171).

But the Quran strongly rejected a number of trinities of Christian heresies present at the time in Arabia (monophysism, tritheism, pseudo-collyridian tritheism, essentially ..)


وَإِنَّ جَهَنَّـمَ لَمَوْعِدُهُـمْ أَجْـمَعِيـنَ .15:43٤٣

And certainly, Hell-Prison is of course the promised abode for them, yes for them all such people. [15:43]

لَـهَا سَبْعَةُ أَبْوَٟبٛ

Seven gates are made for entrance therein (Hell-prison).

لِـكُلِّ بَابٛ مِّنْـهُـمْ جُزْءٚ مَّقْسُومٌ .15:44٤٤

A group of them is earmarked for each of the gates." [15:44]
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Mazhar on June 04, 2019, 11:00:11 AM
So the catagories what i bring dnt have any place in hell prison ?

And second catagory monothiest whats their status ?


يَـٰٓأَيُّـهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟

O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;

قُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَكُـمْ وَأَهْلِيكُـمْ نَارٙا

You people guard yourselves and your household against heated Hell-Prison —

وَقُودُهَا ٱلنَّاسُ وَٱلْحِـجَارَةُ

This Heated Hell-Prison is who's "Fuel"- charred-affected by it are the People and the Stones.


عَلَيْـهَا مَلَٟٓئِكَـةٌ غِلَاظٚ شِدَادٚ

Stern and severe Angels perform duty as Warders [19 in number] upon her (Hell-Prison).

 لَّا يَعْصُونَ ٱللَّهَ مَآ أَمَـرَهُـمْ

They (Angels=Warders) disobey not the word of Allah the Exalted which He had ordered them.

وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ .66:06٦

And they keep performing originally what they are commanded. [66:06]


يَوْمَ يَأْتِـى بَعْضُ ءَايَٟتِ رَبِّكَ

The fact is that the day some unprecedented displays - signs of your Sustainer Lord reaches them:

لَا يَنفَعُ نَفْسٙا إِيمَٟنُـهَا لَمْ تَكُنْ ءَامَنَتْ مِن قَبْلُ

The believing of a person will not benefit him who had not believed in timeline prior to it.

أَوْ كَسَبَتْ فِـىٓ إِيمَٟنِـهَا خَيْـرٙاۗ

Or that apparently believing person will not yield benefit on that day who earned nothing good in his belief.



Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 11:14:08 AM
Timeline of TRINITY

                                              SUN GOD            MOON GODESS               REBORN sun
                                             Father GOD             mother GOD                   GODs son


BABYLON                              NIMROD                  SEMIRAMIS                       TAMMUZ
EGYPT                                     RA                              ISIS                            HORUS
GREECE                                  ZEUS                       ARTEMIS                          ADONIS
ROME                                     JUPITER                    DIANNA                           APOLLO
NORDIC                                  ODIN                         JORO                             THOR
HINDU                                    VISHNU                  CHANDRA                         KRISHNA
ROMAN CATHOLOIC               GOD                     VIRGIN MARY                       JESUS
LUCIFERIAN                           LUCIFER               GODEES DIANA                    ANTICHRIST
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Iyyaka on June 04, 2019, 11:53:21 AM
Timeline of TRINITY

                                              SUN GOD            MOON GODESS               REBORN sun
                                             Father GOD             mother GOD                   GODs son


ROMAN CATHOLOIC               GOD                     VIRGIN MARY                       JESUS
Ask a ROMAN CATHOLIC about their faith and look at his reaction.

Look at here (Not complete but a first idea about Chistological divergences) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianisme (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianisme)

Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 12:14:39 PM
Ask a ROMAN CATHOLIC about their faith and look at his reaction.


his reaction will be same when you tell a coder that code got a flaw
or when u tell shia the concept of 5 pure bodies ( muhammad, ali, fatima, hassan hussain)
or when u tell  the followers  of aisha about the war what she fought against ali
or when u tell sunni about bukhari and company and legends in it got things what does not make sense.
or when u tell hindu about a monkey God hanuman
or when u tell XYZ about a faith what they inherited from their society XYZ...

as jafar said its very difficult to go against the flow  of river/sea to swim,(going against "illogical inheritance" by controlling factor of fear).. its indeed a difficult task to  overcome..

on the other hand with the flow of water everybody can swim and think thats the only swimming method by master swimmer,

but saving a life in opposite direction of river/sea fighting with the opposition of waves is something worth pondering and we give those people names like legends and heroes... after  that people start worship those heroes and heres the idol worship started...
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: Iyyaka on June 04, 2019, 01:14:34 PM
his reaction will be same when you tell a coder that code got a flaw
or when u tell shia the concept of 5 pure bodies ( muhammad, ali, fatima, hassan hussain)
or when u tell  the followers  of aisha about the war what she fought against ali
or when u tell sunni about bukhari and company and legends in it got things what does not make sense.
or when u tell hindu about a monkey God hanuman
or when u tell XYZ about a faith what they inherited from their society XYZ...

as jafar said its very difficult to go against the flow  of river/sea to swim,(going against "illogical inheritance" by controlling factor of fear).. its indeed a difficult task to  overcome..

on the other hand with the flow of water everybody can swim and think thats the only swimming method by master swimmer,

but saving a life in opposite direction of river/sea fighting with the opposition of waves is something worth pondering and we give those people names like legends and heroes... after  that people start worship those heroes and heres the idol worship started...

Yes, as Jafar said, your speech make sense...This is Ibliss attitude (someone centered on himself and his certainties who refuses to evolve) with whom we must to fight it all the time (me first).

But, I just want to rectify a Truth : Trinity is not tritheism (we must to make the difference if we like the Truth).
Tritheism is the belief that cosmic divinity is composed of three equally and DISTINCT powerful entities (as you have well summary in your table).
 
What you described is one of many heresies of the Christian religion around the 6 and 7th century. (Hypothesis = collyridians catholic sect ? or something like that..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism)) :
From The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
(5:116) And God will say: "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you tell the people to take you and your mother as gods other than God?" He said: "Glory to you, I cannot say what I have no right of. If I had said it then You know it, You know what is in my self while I do not know what is in Your self. You are the Knower of the unseen." => i titled that like this : "Condemnation of pseudo-collyridian tritheism"

I know it is hard for us to understand the Trinity creed..But they really believe in ONE god, in 3 expressions. That's why God invites them to stop their theological speculation which create disorder (others speculations : How many people were into the cave ? or Does Issa is really died on the cross and how ? etc..A Lesson for us too...)...Instead of being focus on the essentials : have faith (put your trust, be loyalty) in one god and the hereafter SO THAT (wa) you do good deeds (solidarity between people whatever their beliefs).
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: amin on June 04, 2019, 06:14:09 PM
Quran only believer, or Hadeeth and Quran believer, do not make much difference, those who says, your belief is yours and mine is mine and everyone of our source of Goodness is from the same God. Those are real muslims and i would like to meet and be closer to them.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 04, 2019, 08:59:48 PM


O those/you who proclaim to have accepted-become believers, listen;
.....
Or that apparently believing person will not yield benefit on that day who earned nothing good in his belief.



brother mazhar nothing in your post covering what i actually ask..

whats the status of the ones who believe in one God (mono) cat 2 of your chart ? u already make them hell prisoners  :police:
why other KINDS/TYPES are missing example agnostic as we know they exist ?

 just give us idea in your own words.no need to find verses..
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 04, 2019, 11:56:39 PM
Peace Imran.
Is this your answer to my question? quote:

Here is mine for YOU
(Answer) the version in which GL believe is definately by human called khalifa.
He hijacked someone else work and edit that work a bit by holy code
He put his name on brackets in some of the verses that addressed to someone else.

Evidence can be checked by anybody who have access to the latest copy by messenger khalifa.

It seems you misunderstand my question.. I have not asked you about anything to do with what I believe. Why would I ask you about things I believe in?
I have asked you about the Qoran you use/believe in... The one you quote in your posts  in your discussions.. Who do you think authored it?

I am asking you your view about your belief on Qoran. How can I be dodging this question ? Am I asking myself this question?
You are supposed to answer this question if you want to, not me!!!

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 05, 2019, 09:03:07 PM

It seems you misunderstand my question.. I have not asked you about anything to do with what I believe. Why would I ask you about things I believe in?


then why are you asking things what i believe in ?


I have asked you about the Qoran you use/believe in... The one you quote in your posts  in your discussions.. Who do you think authored it?

it does not matter to those who dont believe in what i believe in same thing what jafar said, i also said you to read previous posts its ok if u want to hear the same answers from me..


I am asking you your view about your belief on Qoran. How can I be dodging this question ? Am I asking myself this question?


You are supposed to answer this question if you want to, not me!!!


why i suppose to answer this question when i already know it DOES not matter to you or any XYZ what i believe in..

but lets move a bit further..

i tried sending you that video in which u possibly get lot of answers but unfortunately u did not think critically ...

lets do it again...

first of all see what believe is ?

believe is what we think is truth...
we believe on it when we know its TRUTH
how we know its truth ?


moreover ,

whatever in which i believe in forget about books as we know all books written by humans ...

lets TALK bout creator/God..

believer (me, you, jaffar) all believe he exist do we have any evidence ?
atheist he also believe no God exist do he have any evidence ?

what i tried telling you in my post 28 but my badluck you suddenly take defensive position on a circular argument instead of looking at the flaw of what i tried telling you from last couple of years..

how easy it was for athiest to stump EDIP becoz he was proving the existence of God through faulty code ..although if he use other arguments like i just said in my post it will be a fruitful debate...

see again ...

how you can prove GOD ? any evidence (NO)
how you can prove there is no GOD ? any evidence (NO)

thats our hunt for proving/believing anything so skip the quran/bible/code think on a broader picture by zooming out..

your argument make us think you are proving the existence of God to atheist through IDOL eg (code,quran,veda,bible,krishna,hanuman,budda,marduk,etc)

do we KNOW what we BELIEVE ?

i HOPE you understand now as i feeling going on holidays from forum so lets pray you now get what we on (BIG OFFTOPIC) lol

GOD bless you
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 05, 2019, 11:35:37 PM
Peace Imran.
I am asking you about something concrete. A book that exist and you seem to use ,called Qoran.. What do you think about its contents? Do you think a human authored it?Who ? Nothing as complicated as you are making.

Instead of answering direct, you are going around in circles. Can you not see that talking around this specific question is a diversion and irrelevant?

Of course you have the choice to do as you please, including to choose not to answer, but the  bottom line is that the question remains unanswered.
Or do I take this quote from you as answer?:

whatever in which i believe in forget about books as we know all books written by humans …

Then my point is simply that statements need to be evidenced. Each book will have its author with it. If not ,then either a search will find an author or it remains unknown and the contents studied for more analysis..
What does your search about Qoran provide? Where is the evidence?.... .
My question to you was specific and independent of let s talk about GOD s existence or any other subject.
So who missed the point?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: hawk99 on June 06, 2019, 07:45:26 AM
then why are you asking things what i believe in ?


Good brother that's what we do in a forum we give our opinion/beliefs.
 
                                                :handshake:
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 06, 2019, 08:07:54 PM
peace GL,
you already had the answer but i cant fix your intelligence level is it also my fault ?

or you just like beating around the bush always..

you dnt need to know what i believe in
its doesnt  matter to you or me what you or me believe in..
my or your believe will not change the fact..
you dnt even know what is a believe( learn it )..

all books written by human... its not my believe its a fact.. (answer of your question too).. when last time you get your eyes checkup ?

GL always helpless in understanding common sense (i beleive)
GL like to debate and ask people how to understand their posts (i beleive)

i cant help him ( my believe)...

i want you to understand (my request) ...
i dnt want to teach you common sense ( my wish) ...

this world is full of sadness  :rotfl: (proven truth) and also sometimes happiness if after full thread you manage to understand it will be a happiness for me..

GOD bless you (with knowledge of how to learn)..
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 06, 2019, 08:21:20 PM
Good brother that's what we do in a forum we give our opinion/beliefs.
 
                                                :handshake:

but i am also teaching people the things what i dnt suppose to teach jk  :laugh:..  we give our opinions thats why forums are there
but opinion and beliefs are synonyms ?

what believe is ? first we need to set the rules how one can believe in something.
what makes them believe in something...

just want to know is this a forum rule to show belief/s ?
then another rule must be there prove your believe  :rotfl:

btw i have feelings from long time do you beleive in CODE 19 ? for the first time i am asking lets see what you say.

 :handshake:
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 06, 2019, 11:39:56 PM
Peace Imran.
I am beating about the bush? By asking you a simple question!!!!

Since you say this, quote:

you dnt need to know what i believe in
its doesnt  matter to you or me what you or me believe in..
my or your believe will not change the fact..
you dnt even know what is a believe( learn it )..

Then, what is "the fact" about Qoran? Who authored it?  Have you come up with  any "fact" or are you assuming? Show us.

As for code 19, either you see it - counting some number facts- or you ignore it/ take it as coincidence, . There is nothing to believe about it.
Or would you deny there are some code 19 facts in Qoran s composition ? Or are they just coincidence? Or do you dismiss it/ ignore it?...

Either answer "who authored Qoran?" i.e show your research/give some evidence Or keep saying it is human made without any evidence which is your guess/opinion.
If you prefer to deviate on the subject, then just leave it at that. There is no need for you to prolong the conversation.
 GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: imrankhawaja on June 07, 2019, 08:49:15 PM
There is no need for you to prolong the conversation.


TRUE  :handshake:
Title: Re: Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
Post by: good logic on June 08, 2019, 02:54:53 AM
Thank you brother Imran.

I will provide my take on who came up with the contents of the Arabic  Qoran - As writing something and coming up with its contents/author... can be different).
Only an Arabic speaking entity could have authored and wrote Qoran or like the book claims Allah authored it. With that in mind, we're left with three choices:
     1  -  the Arabs wrote it (One or a group)
     2  -  Mohammad authored and wrote it or dictated it for a scribe to write it.
     3  -  Allah authored it -(If the other two choices above can be illuminated from authorship then the book mentions the author clearly)
 
1,2 and 3 need to be researched and analysed along with the contents of the book to see the possibilities and their certainty or probabilities.

Briefly I give my findings on each:

1-No one in the history of the world has EVER claimed to have authored/ written the Quran, nor anyone's name ever appeared in front of the Qoran as being the 'author'. This is  one of very few books in the world without a human author. No one in the world has ever been accused of authoring and writing the Holy Quran, except the Prophet Mohammad , by non-muslims.

2- If one is a honest truth seeker and not just just another argumentative person, then the contents are a powerful evidence that it is impossible for the prophet to choose the direction and way of life he led and stay consistent with the theme of Qoran to consistently give true statements that he could not possibly know and lead a nation with this book and not put even a hint in there that he authored it.
By analysing both the content of Qoran and the history available of Mohammed, it is logical to deduce that he did not and could not come up with the contents of Qoran. All logical evidence leads to "revelation" from other than the ideas of the prophet.

3- A revelation from a knowledgeable and able being beyond a human capability. who?

if others have evidence of a human author of the Qoran, please give your evidence.
GOD bless.
Peace.