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Science / History / Prophecy => Quran's Numerical Structure => Topic started by: ibn_a on March 14, 2018, 01:59:32 AM

Title: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on March 14, 2018, 01:59:32 AM
Salaam.

Of the all Qur?n, chapter 9  is distinguished by being the only one that does not open with a  basmalah.
And chapter 27  is the only one that contains an inside basmalah, in addition to its opening basmalah.

Let us note, within the framework of this relation between 9 and 27, that the number 9 is the only one to be cited in chapter 27. It is cited 2 times.  (4 times in the Qur?n)

 The first time in verse 12:
"And make your hand accede to your pocket: it comes out white, different from the stain, in nine signs, to Pharaoh and his community, they were certainly a community [of] perverts"

 And the second time in verse 48:
"And there were in the state nine related ones who corrupt on the earth and do not reform "

The two instances of 9 cited in chapter 27 are located symmetrically on either side of the singular  basmalah(verse 30), one before it and the other after, at an equal distance.

And it is a 19 -verse distance. Indeed, from verse 12 to verse 30, which contains the singular basmalah, there are 19 verses, as well as from verse 30 to verse 48.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48

source: (book: english): www.academia.edu/32938738/The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_2017_ (http://www.academia.edu/32938738/The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_2017_)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 18, 2018, 12:35:51 AM
Salaam,


- chapter 27 Al-Naml  is linked to chapter  9 Al-Tawbah because of the absence of the basmalah in
  chapter 9  Al-Tawbah and the inside basmalah in chapter 27  Al-Naml .

- chapter Al-Naml has 93 verses.
- All verses end with the letter nun  ن except 9 verses, ending with the letter meem  م
84 verses end with the letter nun  ن
9 verses end with the letter meem م
--------------
- The 9 words at the end of the  9 verses ending  with the letter meem  م consist of  9 different letters .

عليم    الحكيم   رحيم  عظيم  العظيم  كريم  الرحيم   كريم  العليم

ع  ل  ي  م  ا  ح  ك  ر ظ
------------
- The sum of of the verse numbers of these 9 verses ending with the letter meem م is 252

    6 + 9 + 11 + 23 + 26 + 29 + 30 + 40 + 78 = 252   is a multiple of 9   (  252 = 9 ? 28 )


-The letter meem م is mentioned in chapter 27 Al-Naml  396 times, a multiple of 9  
 ( 396 = 9 ? 44 )

44 is the sum of the letters of the  9 words at the end of the  9 verses ending  with the letter meem م


******************

A reference to the chapter number 27  Al-Naml ?

- The word Allah الله is mentioned 27 times in chapter Al-Naml.

-The first initial letter of chapter Al-Naml is the letter  ط  and this letter is repeated 27 times in this chapter.

*****************
    

                    
verse   last word      

   1      مبين   
   2      للمومنين   
   3      يوقنون
   4      يعمهون   
   5      الاخسرون   
   6      عليم   
   7      تصطلون   
   8      العلمين   
   9      الحكيم   
   10      المرسلون   
   11      رحيم   
   12      فسقين   
   13      مبين   
   14      المفسدين   
   15      المومنين   
   16      المبين   
   17      يوزعون   
   18      يشعرون   
   19      الصلحين   
   20      الغايبين   
   21      مبين   
   22      يقين   
   23      عظيم   
   24      يهتدون   
   25      تعلنون   
   26      العظيم   
   27      الكذبين   
   28      يرجعون   
   29      كريم   
   30      الرحيم   
   31      مسلمين   
   32      تشهدون   
   33      تامرين   
   34      يفعلون   
   35      المرسلون   
   36      تفرحون   
   37      صغرون   
   38      مسلمين   
   39      امين   
   40      كريم   
   41      يهتدون   
   42      مسلمين   
   43      كفرين   
   44      العلمين   
   45      يختصمون   
   46      ترحمون   
   47      تفتنون   
   48      يصلحون   
   49      لصدقون   
   50      يشعرون   
   51      اجمعين   
   52      يعلمون   
   53      يتقون   
   54      تبصرون   
   55      تجهلون   
   56      يتطهرون   
   57      الغبرين   
   58      المنذرين   
   59      يشركون   
   60      يعدلون   
   61      يعلمون   
   62      تذكرون   
   63      يشركون   
   64      صدقين   
   65      يبعثون   
   66      عمون   
   67      لمخرجون   
   68      الاولين   
   69      المجرمين   
   70      يمكرون   
   71      صدقين   
   72      تستعجلون   
   73      يشكرون   
   74      يعلنون   
   75      مبين   
   76      يختلفون   
   77      للمومنين   
   78      العليم   
   79      المبين   
   80      مدبرين   
   81      مسلمون   
   82      يوقنون   
   83      يوزعون   
   84      تعملون   
   85      ينطقون   
   86      يومنون   
   87      دخرين   
   88      تفعلون   
   89      امنون   
   90      تعملون   
   91      المسلمين   
   92      المنذرين   
   93      تعملون   

            
   


The last verse of chapter 27  Al-Naml :

وقل الحمد لله سيريكم ايته فتعرفونها وما ربك بغفل عما تعملون

And say, “All praise is due to God! In time He will show you His Signs, so that you will recognize them.”
And your Lord is not unaware of whatever you do. 27:93         
   
source: ( arabic )
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir33323/#.WtYV8n8uCCg (https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir33323/#.WtYV8n8uCCg)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 18, 2018, 03:15:53 AM
Some will say useless numerology, so what? Oh and they want to see the failure of this numerology elsewhere in the text!
Some will become certain the text  can only be from the Lord of the universe. GOD counted the number of everything.
GOD will surely keep showing His signs to this and future generations.
Thank you for the info.
GOD bless.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 18, 2018, 08:09:56 AM
Salaam good logic,


Thanks for your interest.


Some will say useless numerology, so what? Oh and they want to see the failure of this numerology elsewhere in the text!
Some will become certain the text  can only be from the Lord of the universe. GOD counted the number of everything.
GOD will surely keep showing His signs to this and future generations.
...

I agree.


Constructive criticism is sometime useful it helps to do a more profound research and see things from a different angle.
We have to be ojective when we look into the numerical structure of the Qur'an,
some of what is published,  is forced, exaggerated or coincidence.


We have also to consider that which is presented today as some of the numerical structure of the Qur'an,  might be a small part of that what is present in the Qur'an.

An objective observer has to differentiate between numerology, coincidence and a pattern.

example:

a book has 114 chapters ,
and all the chapters start with the same titel consisting of 19 letters,
except chapter 9 ,
but 19 chapters further ,
inside chapter 27 the same titel is present.
In chapter 27  some indications to the number  9.
The number 9 is mentioned two times surrounding the same titel consisting of 19 letters.
at a 19 -verse distance.
And number 19 is mentioned in this book as a response to the claim :
"This is nothing but the words of a human."
.....
Is this a coincidence ,numerology or a pattern?


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 18, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
Is this a coincidence ,numerology or a pattern?

Peace,

?   Not coincidences if going through combinations only showing what excites you leave out failures
?   Pattern e.g. odd-even symmetry is primarily due to scribes adding verse numbers to keep count
?   Verse numbers did NOT come with revelations, oldest manuscripts used different verse counts
?   E.g. older manuscripts did not count initials as separate verses: that was about 100 years later

?   Chapter 27 had 94 verses (95 if include chapter title) not 93 as today -- although same script
?   See below large marker end of 10 verses thus verse 27:90 is really 27:91 and 27:93 is 27:94
?   See Hafs or Warsh thread which is a bunch of nonsense since no one looked into it thoroughly

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610132.msg415476#msg415476

Paris, Biblioth?que nationale de France: Arabe 333 (b)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/27/vers/31/handschrift/570

(http://oi63.tinypic.com/t9i4aa.jpg)

Paris, Biblioth?que nationale de France: Arabe 333 (b)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/27/vers/91/handschrift/570

(http://oi68.tinypic.com/14lr7tl.jpg)


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 18, 2018, 11:59:45 AM
Thank you for your reply.
For me the following tells me everything I need to know about Qoran:
It is we who will collect it into Quran. 75:17إِنَّ عَلَينا جَمعَهُ وَقُرءانَهُ

The geometrical value of the word ( Jam?u = Collector or Gatherer ) is 114.
 There is NO co-incidence. God knows since creation that He will be the Collector of the Quran, the Gatherer of the revelations and He assigned the value 114 to the word, J =3, A =1, M= 40 and A?in = 70 = 114
That is why there are 114 surahs.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 18, 2018, 05:12:20 PM
For me the following tells me everything I need to know about Qoran:
It is we who will collect it into Quran. 75:17إِنَّ عَلَينا جَمعَهُ وَقُرءانَهُ

The geometrical value of the word ( Jam?u = Collector or Gatherer ) is 114.
 There is NO co-incidence. God knows since creation that He will be the Collector of the Quran, the Gatherer of the revelations and He assigned the value 114 to the word, J =3, A =1, M= 40 and A?in = 70 = 114
That is why there are 114 surahs.

Peace, no alif in the word جمعه jamʿahu

ج م ع ه

3 + 40 + 70 + 5 = 118
OR
3 + 40 + 70 = 113 (no hu)

Likewise ch 75 was 39 verses (40 with chapter title) 75:16 and 75:17 were together.

75:16 لا not تحرك move به in/with it لسنك tongue your لتعجل to thou hasten به in/with it
(No end verse marks i.e. was counted together with next verse as a single verse)
75:17 ان indeed علىنا upon us جمعه jamʿahu/assembly its وقرانه and recitation its

Paris, Biblioth?que nationale de France: Arabe 324 (c)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/75/vers/17?handschrift=24

(http://oi66.tinypic.com/2h7f32e.jpg)

Gotthelf-Bergstr??er-Archiv: "Saray Medina 1a" (= Istanbul, Topkapı Sarayı M?zesi: M 1)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/75/vers/17/handschrift/56

(http://oi67.tinypic.com/33vezjk.jpg)

Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Rilum on April 18, 2018, 11:59:12 PM
Salam,
Where did you get these pictures from Noon waalqalami?
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: The Sardar on April 19, 2018, 07:11:08 AM
Salam,
Where did you get these pictures from Noon waalqalami?
Salam/Peace, check the links Noon gave.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 19, 2018, 08:18:18 AM
Salaam Noon waalqalami,


•   Not coincidences if going through combinations only showing what excites you leave out failures



The failures are not a proof of the absance of a pattern.
The failures are the result of researchers not knowing how the pattern looks like.

Example (from the Qur'an we have today 114 chapters and 6236 verses) :
If you are searching for multiples of 19:

The Qur'an has 6236 verses, not a multiple of 19
The 19 th chapter has 98 verses, not a multiple of 19
The sum of the first half of the Qur'an or the second half, not a multiple of 19
The  number of the chapters with initial letters, not a multiple of 19
The sum of the numbers of the chapters with initial letters, not a multiple of 19
....
The failures here, is because it is not intended to be a multiple of 19 , i think it serves an other purpose in the numerical structure of the Qur'an.

If you write a book and put a pattern in it, then the failed attempts of those searching for this pattern,  does not not make your book pattenless.




•   Pattern e.g. odd-even symmetry is primarily due to scribes adding verse numbers to keep count


Do you think that the scribes made the division of the Quranic text to obtain this?

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9666.msg196954#msg196954 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9666.msg196954#msg196954)


(http://i43.tinypic.com/2ev9jxe.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2100qaf.jpg)



                                                           ---------------------------------

•   Chapter 27 had 94 verses (95 if include chapter title) not 93 as today -- although same script
•   See below large marker end of 10 verses thus verse 27:90 is really 27:91 and 27:93 is 27:94


- I believe that the Qur'an we have  today is preserved by God, if not then what are this verses about?

----

15:9   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

----

18:1   Praise be to God who has sent down the Book to His servant, and He has not made in it any crookedness.
18:2   It is valuable, giving warning of the severe punishment from Him; and it gives glad tidings to the believers who do good works, that they will have an excellent reward.

----
41:41   Those who have rejected the reminder when it came to them; and it is an Honorable Book.
41:42   No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from One Most Wise, Praiseworthy.


*********************

I looked into some of these manuscripts ( incomplete ) and found some differences between them in the the division of the Quranic text and some words :

example:

chapter 10

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163)

110 verses (in this manuscript)

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460)

109 verses (in this manuscript)

*********************

chapter 18

 https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/1/handschrift/163 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/18/vers/1/handschrift/163)

109 verses? (in this manuscript)   (difficult to read, someone can confirm?)

https://archive.org/stream/QuranTubingenUniversity/Quran%20-%20Tubingen%20University%20-%20oldest%20MaVI165#page/n7/mode/2up (https://archive.org/stream/QuranTubingenUniversity/Quran%20-%20Tubingen%20University%20-%20oldest%20MaVI165#page/n7/mode/2up)

105 verses  (in this manuscript)


*********************


In this manuscript chapter Al-Jinn 72:9   the word شهابا ( shihaben,flame) seems missing .

وانا كنا نقعد منها مقعد للسمع فمن يستمع الان يجد له شهابا رصدا
72:9

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/72/vers/7/handschrift/170/flip/1 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/72/vers/7/handschrift/170/flip/1)


*********************
note:
In chapter 2 the word Ibrahim is written A B R H M  ابرهم    in 12 verses ( 15 times ) and in the rest of the quran it is written A B R H I M  ابرهيم    in 51 verses (54 times ) in 24 chapters, in the quran we have today ( 114 chapters and 6236 verses ).

*********************

In this manuscript in chapter 2 the word Ibrahim is written:

 A B R H I M   ابرهيم

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/132/handschrift/163 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/132/handschrift/163)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/126/handschrift/163 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/126/handschrift/163)

                                             
*********************


In this manuscript in chapter 2  the word Ibrahim is written:

sometimes A B R H M  ابرهم  and sometimes   A B R H I M  ابرهيم

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/124/handschrift/170 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/124/handschrift/170)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/125/handschrift/170/flip/1 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/125/handschrift/170/flip/1)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/130/handschrift/170/flip/1 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/130/handschrift/170/flip/1)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/133/handschrift/170/flip/1 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/133/handschrift/170/flip/1)


***********************


- And i believe that the numerical structure of the Qur'an prouves/will prouve its preservation.

If there is no numerical structure in the Qur'an, then what are these verses about , counting all things in numbers, 19, have certainty, increase in faith,  that the message is deliverd .... ?


72:28
so as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                                                                        ------------------------

74:25   "This is nothing except the saying of a human being."
...

74:30   Upon it is nineteen.
74:31
We have appointed only angels to be wardens of the fire, and their number have We made to be a stumbling block for those who disbelieve; that those to whom the scripture hath been given may have certainty, and that believers may increase in faith; and that those to whom the Scripture hath been given and believers may not doubt; and that those in whose hearts there is disease, and disbelievers, may say: What meaneth Allah by this similitude? Thus Allah sendeth astray whom He will, and whom He will He guideth. None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him. This is naught else than a Reminder unto mortals.
...
74:35   It is one of the great ones.
74:36   A warning to human beings.


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 19, 2018, 01:28:01 PM
Do you think that the scribes made the division of the Quranic text to obtain this?
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9666.msg196954#msg196954

Peace ibn_a -- Eid was ignorant then and is now right in the head.

There are infinity of combinations that produce that same pattern.
e.g. remove/add any 2,4, etc. to infinity verses from ch 2, 4, 9, ...
                                                         
- I believe that the Qur'an we have  today is preserved by God, if not then what are this verses about?

----

15:9   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

Yes recitation, text is mnemonic to aid memory not verse numbers added by scribes as reference and checksum.

I looked into some of these manuscripts ( incomplete ) and found some differences between them in the the division of the Quranic text and some words :

example:

chapter 10

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163)

110 verses (in this manuscript)

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460 (https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460)

109 verses (in this manuscript)

Please be considerate and check before posting and please one question at a time.

10:101 should follow end 10 verses marker not 10:100 hence 1+ 110 and not 109.

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/101?handschrift=163

(http://oi67.tinypic.com/2h74gly.jpg)

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/109/handschrift/163

(http://oi68.tinypic.com/amuknr.jpg)

Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 19, 2018, 01:58:18 PM
Peace Noon.
You know my problem don t you?
Have you got the Qoran written by the prophet himself(with proof), then show me the word Jamiu has not  got Alif,otherwise you are wasting your time.
GOD has foreseen this problem of how one can prove it is the original copy and preserved His words mathematically.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 19, 2018, 06:39:22 PM
Peace Noon.
You know my problem don t you?
Have you got the Qoran written by the prophet himself(with proof), then show me the word Jamiu has not  got Alif,otherwise you are wasting your time.
GOD has foreseen this problem of how one can prove it is the original copy and preserved His words mathematically.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace good logic, yes we all know your problem/s?

You refuse 2 verses since they contain the word الله
You refuse 68 جمع in all Qurans and want to add alif
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=170

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=878

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=56

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=481

https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/68/vers/1?handschrift=163

(http://oi66.tinypic.com/2n01ylt.jpg)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 20, 2018, 12:04:29 AM
Yes brother Noon.
I know I have many problems but this is not one of them:
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

Why? But who can spell better than this:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Za-Noon ,Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name" ن و ن 
- Your name sake! Check your mushaf-?
Anyway we had all these conversations before. Is your mathematics still the same?-Random and boring?-
Mine is an amazing miracle.
As usual you say "So what?" . I say "Wow!".
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: The Sardar on April 20, 2018, 05:56:33 AM
Yes brother Noon.
I know I have many problems but this is not one of them:
You refuse 68th chapter as ن noon looking for ن و ن 

Why? But who can spell better than this:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Za-Noon ,Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name" ن و ن 
- Your name sake! Check your mushaf-?
Anyway we had all these conversations before. Is your mathematics still the same?-Random and boring?-
Mine is an amazing miracle.
As usual you say "So what?" . I say "Wow!".
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Mushaf? What is that?
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 20, 2018, 07:03:55 AM
Brother the Sardar, a mushaf is a whole written Qoran. It can be warsh or hafs or an old manuscript or ...
Brother Noon has examples of different mushafs that are old in his posts.

I wonder what happened to the original copy that was written by the scribes during the prophet s era? Or is this an assumption? If it was found how can one prove it?  How does GOD preserve that original copy? etc...

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: The Sardar on April 20, 2018, 07:49:59 AM
Brother the Sardar, a mushaf is a whole written Qoran. It can be warsh or hafs or an old manuscript or ...
Brother Noon has examples of different mushafs that are old in his posts.

I wonder what happened to the original copy that was written by the scribes during the prophet s era? Or is this an assumption? If it was found how can one prove it?  How does GOD preserve that original copy? etc...

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Salam see this verses:

85:21 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'?nun maj?dun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.
85:22 فى لوح محفوظ
F? lawHin maHf?Zin
In a tablet, preserved.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 20, 2018, 08:19:44 AM
Peace The Sardar.
Exactly.  What is "Lawhun Mahfood" and how is it "Mahfood"? That is the question?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 20, 2018, 08:27:37 AM
Salaam Noon waalqalami,




There are infinity of combinations that produce that same pattern.
e.g. remove/add any 2,4, etc. to infinity verses from ch 2, 4, 9, ...
                                                         


I know that it is not impossible to remove/add verses in an orderly way so that the pattern will stay as it is.
But the more complicated the pattern, the more difficult to make changes in it, or to happen by coincidence.

We have also to consider that which is presented today as some of the numerical structure of the Qur'an,  might be a small part of that what is present in the Qur'an.

Symmetry sum chapters - verses  and even-odd  is maybe only a part of a more complicated pattern.

Not everyone is an expert in math,
so to make the pattern accessible to almost everone it has to contain a simple pattern
so that it is recognizable for most people and a more complicated one(s ) for more knowledgeable people and  experts who challenges the pattern.

note:
The pattern published by member Eid  was discovered by Abdullah Jalghoum.





                                                         
Yes recitation, text is mnemonic to aid memory not verse numbers added by scribes as reference and checksum.

Please be considerate and check before posting and please one question at a time.

10:101 should follow end 10 verses marker not 10:100 hence 1+ 110 and not 109.

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/101?handschrift=163



Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/109/handschrift/163




  I know that in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 110 verses

    https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163


                                                         ********************


   But in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 109 verses.

   https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460

   This is written at the beginning of  chapter 10:
 

  ٮوٮس     ماٮه     و    تسع      اٮٮ       

  younus     mi-ata     wa       tisaa       ayat

  younus   hundred    and      nine       verses.

Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: The Sardar on April 20, 2018, 09:18:42 AM
Peace The Sardar.
Exactly.  What is "Lawhun Mahfood" and how is it "Mahfood"? That is the question?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Salam i have checked the root word of these words, see here:

Lam-Waw-Ha (ل و ح) = To change colour, become visible, gleam/shine, light up, scorching one, broad table or plate, tablet.
lawh n.m. (pl. alwah) 7:145, 7:150, 7:154, 54:13, sing. 85:22
lawwah n.m. adj. 74:29
LL, V7, p: 207, 208  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=lwH (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=lwH)

Ha-Fa-Za (ح ف ظ) = To preserve/guard/protect a thing, take care of a thing, prevent a thing from perishing, to be careful/mindful/regardful/attentive/considerate concerning a thing, to keep a thing, put in store, retain a thing, learn a thing by heart (commit to memory), to remember, to defend, keep a thing from getting lost, to be observant or watchful, apply oneself/assiduously/constantly/perseveringly, vigilant or heedful, to anger a person or be angered.

hafiza vb. (1)
perf. act. 4:34, 15:17
impf. act. 12:65, 13:11, 24:30, 24:31
impv. 5:89
n.vb. 2:255, 37:7, 41:12
pcple. act. 4:34, 9:112, 12:12, 12:63, 12:64, 12:81, 15:9, 21:82, 23:5, 33:35, 33:35, 70:29, 82:10, 83:33, 86:4
pcple. pass. 21:32, 85:22

hafazah n.m. (pl. of hafiz) 6:61

hafiz n.m. 4:80, 6:104, 6:107, 11:57, 11:86, 12:55, 34:21, 42:6, 42:48, 50:4, 50:32

hafaza vb. (3)
impf. act. 6:92, 23:9, 70:34
impv. 2:238

istahfaza vb. (10) perf. pass. 5:44

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page: 237, 238, 239  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7fZ (http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7fZ)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 20, 2018, 12:01:18 PM
What is left for you brother The Sardar now, is work out how it is preserved?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 21, 2018, 04:38:11 AM
Why? But who can spell better than this:
وَذَا النّونِ إِذ ذَهَبَ مُغٰضِبًا فَظَنَّ أَن لَن نَقدِرَ عَلَيهِ فَنادىٰ فِى الظُّلُمٰتِ أَن لا إِلٰهَ إِلّا أَنتَ سُبحٰنَكَ إِنّى كُنتُ مِنَ الظّٰلِمينَ

Za-Noon ,Jonah, "the one with an `N' in his name" ن و ن 
- Your name sake! Check your mushaf-?
Anyway we had all these conversations before. Is your mathematics still the same?-Random and boring?-
Mine is an amazing miracle.
As usual you say "So what?" . I say "Wow!".

Peace good logic,

21:87 وذا wadha النون l-nuni has nothing to do with 68:1 ن noon والقلم wal-qalami/and (by) the pen
Written in every old manuscript ? all the scribes did not conspire to misspell it according to you.

Don't call multiple hunting ?mathematics? as differential equations, etc., used to solve problems.

It's obvious you are infatuated by boring multiples. Likewise you need to put a disclaimer every time that you post on the subject ? that it is your speculation, no evidence from older manuscripts, on the contrary all evidence refutes it. Otherwise you are dishonest misleading readers.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 21, 2018, 04:59:50 AM
Salaam Noon waalqalami,


I know that it is not impossible to remove/add verses in an orderly way so that the pattern will stay as it is.
But the more complicated the pattern, the more difficult to make changes in it, or to happen by coincidence.

We have also to consider that which is presented today as some of the numerical structure of the Qur'an,  might be a small part of that what is present in the Qur'an.

Symmetry sum chapters - verses  and even-odd  is maybe only a part of a more complicated pattern.

Not everyone is an expert in math,
so to make the pattern accessible to almost everone it has to contain a simple pattern
so that it is recognizable for most people and a more complicated one(s ) for more knowledgeable people and  experts who challenges the pattern.

note:
The pattern published by member Eid  was discovered by Abdullah Jalghoum.





  I know that in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 110 verses

    https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/163


                                                         ********************


   But in this manuscript  chapter 10 has 109 verses.

   https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/10/vers/1/handschrift/460

   This is written at the beginning of  chapter 10:
 

  ٮوٮس     ماٮه     و    تسع      اٮٮ       

  younus     mi-ata     wa       tisaa       ayat

  younus   hundred    and      nine       verses.

Peace ibn_a,

Again, verse numbers were not revealed with recitation (i.e. "this is verse #, say...") and added by scribes which is obvious from oldest manuscripts and had similar odd-even symmetry while some chapters had different counts and all the initials chapters alif lam meem, etc., were not counted as separate verses.

That re-arrangement was 100+ years later like the manuscript/style from 2nd century that you posted.

The writing style below is oldest and closest to the time: see Perf 558 (643 CE) and Birmingham Quran.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610067.msg415444#msg415444

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2015/07/quran-manuscript-22-07-15.aspx

(http://oi64.tinypic.com/ftq8vl.jpg)

see also manuscript MA VI 165
http://www.medievalhistories.com/sensational-fragment-early-quran-identified/

(http://oi67.tinypic.com/16ljiiq.jpg)

see also Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1/handschrift/163

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/jv3hw7.jpg)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 21, 2018, 05:23:32 AM
Peace Noon.
You say, quote:
21:87 وذا wadha النون l-nuni has nothing to do with 68:1 ن noon والقلم wal-qalami/and (by) the pen
Written in every old manuscript ? all the scribes did not conspire to misspell it according to you.

I say, this is no coincidence ,why?
 I tell you exactly the connection between Jonah in surah 21  and the spelling of N( ن و ن  )in surah 68

In surah 21 GOD called Jonah "Za Noon" deliberately to show the spelling of N, this draws our attention to surah 68 where GOD called Jonah "Sahibi Al Huti"- The companion of the fish to let you know that there is no need of one extra N (If GOD said Younes-Jonah- your extra N would have been there easily!!!!) I,surah 68 :

68:48
You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out the commands of your Lord. Do not be like Sahibi Al Huti (Jonah) who called from inside the fish.
فَاصبِر لِحُكمِ رَبِّكَ وَلا تَكُن كَصاحِبِ الحوتِ إِذ نادىٰ وَهُوَ مَكظومٌ
Go on tell me it is another coincidence?

As for a disclaimer, that should be automatically on everyone s words(every human) including yours, according to Qoran-17:36- Until checked.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 21, 2018, 06:22:00 AM
Peace Noon.
You say, quote:
21:87 وذا wadha النون l-nuni has nothing to do with 68:1 ن noon والقلم wal-qalami/and (by) the pen
Written in every old manuscript ? all the scribes did not conspire to misspell it according to you.

I say, this is no coincidence ,why?
 I tell you exactly the connection between Jonah in surah 21  and the spelling of N( ن و ن  )in surah 68

In surah 21 GOD called Jonah "Za Noon" deliberately to show the spelling of N, this draws our attention to surah 68 where GOD called Jonah "Sahibi Al Huti"- The companion of the fish to let you know that there is no need of one extra N (If GOD said Younes-Jonah- your extra N would have been there easily!!!!) I,surah 68 :

68:48
You shall steadfastly persevere in carrying out the commands of your Lord. Do not be like Sahibi Al Huti (Jonah) who called from inside the fish.
فَاصبِر لِحُكمِ رَبِّكَ وَلا تَكُن كَصاحِبِ الحوتِ إِذ نادىٰ وَهُوَ مَكظومٌ
Go on tell me it is another coincidence?

As for a disclaimer, that should be automatically on everyone s words(every human) including yours, according to Qoran-17:36- Until checked.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace, again you are mindlessly ranting and do not understand your logic.

Why all scribes wrote it as such; 68:1 nothing to do with 21:87 and 68:48?

21:87 وذا wadha النون l-nuni اذ when ذهب left مغاضبا angry of فظن so assume ان that لن never نقدر we decree علىه on him فنادى so called فى in الظلمات the darkness ان that لا not اله deity الا except انت are thou سبحانك majesty you انى indeed I كنت be I من among الظلمىن the wrongdoers

68:1 ن noon والقلم wal-qalami/and (by) the pen وما and what ىسطرون they writing

68:48 فاصبر so patience لحكم for wisdom ربك lord your ولا and not تكن thou be كصاحب like companion الحوت l-ḥūti/the fish اذ when نادى called وهو and he مكظوم distressed

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/zweiq.jpg)

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/10zbu3p.jpg)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 21, 2018, 06:42:34 AM
Peace Noon.
Irrelevant. Unless you produce the original copy that the prophet wrote?
Scribes have copied what existed at their time, they also differ in some words (hafs and warsh write and spell some words differently).
All the copies that you are showing have that spelling mistake. It does not prove 68 :1 is only 1 N.

All the indication is with "The future belongs to GOD ,wait ,we are also waiting". The right spelling and how Qoran is preserved is with us now that Mathematics is speaking to us. Qoran has been mathematically composed ,this is a full proof method.
So regardless of the scribes mistakes, we now know exactly how each letter and word are chosen and spelled.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 22, 2018, 01:37:38 AM

Salaam Noon waalqalami,





Again, verse numbers were not revealed with recitation (i.e. "this is verse #, say...") and added by scribes which is obvious from oldest manuscripts and had similar odd-even symmetry while some chapters had different counts and all the initials chapters alif lam meem, etc., were not counted as separate verses.

That re-arrangement was 100+ years later like the manuscript/style from 2nd century that you posted.

The writing style below is oldest and closest to the time: see Perf 558 (643 CE) and Birmingham Quran.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610067.msg415444#msg415444

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2015/07/quran-manuscript-22-07-15.aspx



see also manuscript MA VI 165
http://www.medievalhistories.com/sensational-fragment-early-quran-identified/



see also Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1/handschrift/163



I know that the numbering of verses was later, but the text was separated in those manuscripts, so we know the first verse, verse number 2, verse number 3, .... 
----
 
 I do not understand what you mean by this:
Did the scribes know about the even - odd symmetry or is it just a  coincidence?
----

What member Eid posted is only a part of the even - odd symmetry
A  more detailed explanation here:

http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/05/even-and-odd-numbers/ (http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/05/even-and-odd-numbers/)

----

- The manuscripts you posted ( where the  initial letters are not separated verses )seem to have a  resemblance with the   Warsh reading .
The initial letters in Warsh reading are not separated verses in the 29 chapters.

- In the Hafs reading the initial letters are separated verses in 19 chapters
and not separated verses  in 10  chapters .

----------------

    الم         2
   الم         3
   المص         7
   الر تلك ايت الكتب الحكيم       10
   الر كتب احكمت ايته ثم فصلت من لدن حكيم خبير       11
   الر تلك ايت الكتب المبين       12
   المر تلك ايت الكتب و الذي انزل اليك من ربك الحق و لكن اكثر الناس لا يومنون       13
   الر كتب انزلنه اليك لتخرج الناس من الظلمت الي النور باذن ربهم الي صرط العزيز الحميد       14
   الر تلك ايت الكتب و قران مبين       15
   كهيعص       19
   طه       20
   طسم       26
   طس تلك ايت القران و كتاب مبين       27
   طسم       28
   الم       29
   الم       30
   الم       31
   الم       32
   يس       36
   ص و القران ذي الذكر       38
   حم       40
   حم       41
حم 1 عسق 2     42
   حم       43
   حم       44
   حم       45
   حم       46
   ق و القران المجيد      50
   ن و القلم و ما يسطرون      68


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 22, 2018, 12:36:13 PM
Peace Noon.
Irrelevant. Unless you produce the original copy that the prophet wrote?
Scribes have copied what existed at their time, they also differ in some words (hafs and warsh write and spell some words differently).
All the copies that you are showing have that spelling mistake. It does not prove 68 :1 is only 1 N.

All the indication is with "The future belongs to GOD ,wait ,we are also waiting". The right spelling and how Qoran is preserved is with us now that Mathematics is speaking to us. Qoran has been mathematically composed ,this is a full proof method.
So regardless of the scribes mistakes, we now know exactly how each letter and word are chosen and spelled.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace good logic, if you haven't looked into it then why post?

Perhaps tell us then using your code/whatever how to spell ?

21:3 لاهىه lāhiyatan/divert ? or written لهىه without alif?


I know that the numbering of verses was later, but the text was separated in those manuscripts, so we know the first verse, verse number 2, verse number 3, .... 
----
 
 I do not understand what you mean by this:
Did the scribes know about the even - odd symmetry or is it just a  coincidence?
----

What member Eid posted is only a part of the even - odd symmetry
A  more detailed explanation here:

http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/05/even-and-odd-numbers/ (http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/05/even-and-odd-numbers/)

Peace ibn_a, what you wrote doesn?t make sense? If you agree that numbering of verses was added later i.e. after revelation then it was the scribes who added the verses numbers by separating sentences etc. It was not a coincidence since it was the scribes who added the verse numbers.

It's simple ledger system e.g. remove this verse due to hadith to get a meaningless multiple?

Zayd bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Quran and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. [That verse was]: 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.'"[Quran 33:23][Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:61:510]

Then combine any 2 verses in any of these chapters keeps odd-even symmetry?

3   200
5   120
6   165
7   206
8   75
10   109
12   111
19   98
20   135
21   112
23   118
26   227
31   34
33   72
36   83
37   182
40   85
41   54
42   53
44   59
46   35
47   38
48   29
49   18
50   45
51   60
52   49
53   62
54   55
55   78

Zayd also said:

"So I started looking for the Holy quran and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, until I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 478).


Simply remove last 2 verses from ch 9 to get meaningless multiple keep symmetry -- infinite combinations.

- The manuscripts you posted ( where the  initial letters are not separated verses )seem to have a  resemblance with the   Warsh reading .
The initial letters in Warsh reading are not separated verses in the 29 chapters.

Not about hafs/warsh ? where you get warsh count/reading?
Show warsh total verse counts for chapter 20 posted earlier?

Earliest manuscripts end 10 verses marker 20:127 (20:131) thus total 139.
It is the same text yet (4) extra verses not counting chapter title or initials.

20:1 طه ta ha (together with next verse) 20:2 ما not انزلنا descends we of علىك upon you القران the qur?an لتشقى that thou agonize

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/127/handschrift/163

(http://oi67.tinypic.com/20fawec.jpg)

T?bingen, Universit?tsbibliothek: Ma VI 165
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/127/handschrift/107

(http://oi65.tinypic.com/2m3s4xt.jpg)



Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Rilum on April 22, 2018, 12:47:23 PM
Where did you get the english translation from?
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 22, 2018, 02:41:30 PM
Where did you get the english translation from?

Peace, translation is mine; structurally close to  Arabic, consistent, allows for quick searches, analytics, etc.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 23, 2018, 02:14:34 AM
Earliest manuscripts end 10 verses marker 20:127 (20:131) thus total 139.
It is the same text yet (4) extra verses not counting chapter title or initials.

20:1 طه ta ha (together with next verse) 20:2 ما not انزلنا descends we of علىك upon you القران the qur?an لتشقى that thou agonize

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/127/handschrift/163

T?bingen, Universit?tsbibliothek: Ma VI 165
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/127/handschrift/107

Peace, chapter 20 is 140 total verses (not counting chapter title) in oldest manuscripts.
The below verse is split into two verses and last verse ch 20 has end 10 verses marker.

20:131 ولا and not تمدن extend عىنىك eyes your الى to ما what متعنا provide we of به with it ازوجا spouses of منهم among them زهره blossom/opulence الحىه the life الدنىا the world (end verse marker)

(start new verse) لنفتنهم linaftinahum/to we test them فىه in it ورزق and provision ربك lord your خىر better وابقى and lasts


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 23, 2018, 03:41:35 AM
Peace Noon.
Is this a random coincidence or have you chosen this verse deliberate?:
لاهِيَةً قُلوبُهُم وَأَسَرُّوا النَّجوَى الَّذينَ ظَلَموا هَل هٰذا إِلّا بَشَرٌ مِثلُكُم أَفَتَأتونَ السِّحرَ وَأَنتُم تُبصِرونَ

It is not how I spell the words .
With Alif it fits in fine.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 23, 2018, 05:37:03 AM
Peace Noon.
Is this a random coincidence or have you chosen this verse deliberate?:
لاهِيَةً قُلوبُهُم وَأَسَرُّوا النَّجوَى الَّذينَ ظَلَموا هَل هٰذا إِلّا بَشَرٌ مِثلُكُم أَفَتَأتونَ السِّحرَ وَأَنتُم تُبصِرونَ

It is not how I spell the words .
With Alif it fits in fine.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace, it was asked of you use code/whatever show why with alif?

21:3 لاهىه lāhiyatan/divert (oldest manuscripts spelled لهىه no alif)

T?bingen, Universit?tsbibliothek: Ma VI 165
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/21/vers/3?handschrift=107

(http://oi66.tinypic.com/17bjmt.jpg)

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/21/vers/3/handschrift/163

(http://oi66.tinypic.com/sp7peu.jpg)
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on April 23, 2018, 07:38:07 AM
Peace Noon
Old manuscript just means one way or the other. i.e there could be mistakes of spelling

Like I said ,the original copy that the prophet wrote can then make all the difference and give the right spelling then it must be adhered to

For me,the mathematically composed text in Qoran serves both as an authenticating tool and as a guard to protect and preserve the scripture.
Obviously, finding an original  unaltered Qoran is also extremely important. Then we shall see if it will be proven by the remarkable mathematical design of the Qoran that we have now.
Readers can check all information for themselves. In fact, this strong advice is given in the Qoran itself: "You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them." (17:36).

We  have interlock ,Mathematics has spoken to us now. So I am going by this fool proof method .

Unless you have proof that the old manuscript you have is that original copy written by the prophet, we will only be going back and forth brother Noon.
SO thank you again for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on April 23, 2018, 08:02:11 AM
Salaam Noon waalqalami,



what you wrote doesn’t make sense? If you agree that numbering of verses was added later i.e. after revelation then it was the scribes who added the verses numbers by separating sentences etc. It was not a coincidence since it was the scribes who added the verse numbers.



Maybe i did not express myself well ( i am not a native english speaker ) .
You said in a previous post that de numbering of the verses was later, what i was trying to say, is that they can number the separated verses later, as the end of the verses were marked.




It's simple ledger system e.g. remove this verse due to hadith to get a meaningless multiple…

Zayd bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Quran and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. [That verse was]: 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.'"[Quran 33:23][Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:61:510]

Then combine any 2 verses in any of these chapters keeps odd-even symmetry…

3   200
5   120
6   165
7   206
8   75
10   109
12   111
19   98
20   135
21   112
23   118
26   227
31   34
33   72
36   83
37   182
40   85
41   54
42   53
44   59
46   35
47   38
48   29
49   18
50   45
51   60
52   49
53   62
54   55
55   78

Zayd also said:

"So I started looking for the Holy quran and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, until I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 478).


Simply remove last 2 verses from ch 9 to get meaningless multiple keep symmetry -- infinite combinations.


In a previous  post i said:



I know that it is not impossible to remove/add verses in an orderly way so that the pattern will stay as it is.
But the more complicated the pattern, the more difficult to make changes in it, or to happen by coincidence.



you can not change randomly without destroying the odd-even symmetry in some attempts.
( odd-even symmetry is only a part of the Quran's numerical structure )





Not about hafs/warsh – where you get warsh count/reading?
Show warsh total verse counts for chapter 20 posted earlier?

Earliest manuscripts end 10 verses marker 20:127 (20:131) thus total 139.
It is the same text yet (4) extra verses not counting chapter title or initials.

20:1 طه ta ha (together with next verse) 20:2 ما not انزلنا descends we of علىك upon you القران the qur’an لتشقى that thou agonize

Berlin, Staatsbibliothek: Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305
https://corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/127/handschrift/163



In previous posts you said that the initial letters were part of verses and not separated  verses.
My comment was about the initial letters,  not the total number of verses:


- The manuscripts you posted ( where the  initial letters are not separated verses ) seem to have a  resemblance with the   Warsh reading .
The initial letters in Warsh reading are not separated verses in the 29 chapters.

- In the Hafs reading the initial letters are separated verses in 19 chapters
and not separated verses  in 10  chapters .


It seems that the differences in the number of verses is because of the different qira'at readings. 

"Cutting the same corpus, into verses."

Read more here...page 85 -110 ( variant Quranic Readings,  qira'at   page 100 )

http://www.academia.edu/32938738/The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_2017_


Example:

Here: a qira'at with 140 verses in chapter 20.

http://audio.islamweb.net/audio/index.php?page=rewayat&rewaya=26


chapter 20. T. H.

http://live.islamweb.net/quran_list/hesham/s20.pdf


The most important is what the Qur'an says about its preservation and numerical structure :


- I believe that the Qur'an we have  today is preserved by God, if not then what are this verses about?

----

15:9   Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

----

18:1   Praise be to God who has sent down the Book to His servant, and He has not made in it any crookedness.
18:2   It is valuable, giving warning of the severe punishment from Him; and it gives glad tidings to the believers who do good works, that they will have an excellent reward.

----
41:41   Those who have rejected the reminder when it came to them; and it is an Honorable Book.
41:42   No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from One Most Wise, Praiseworthy.




- And i believe that the numerical structure of the Qur'an prouves/will prouve its preservation.

If there is no numerical structure in the Qur'an, then what are these verses about , counting all things in numbers, 19, have certainty, increase in faith,  that the message is deliverd .... ?


72:28
so as to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                                                                        ------------------------

74:25   "This is nothing except the saying of a human being."
...

74:30   Upon it is nineteen.
74:31
We have appointed only angels to be wardens of the fire, and their number have We made to be a stumbling block for those who disbelieve; that those to whom the scripture hath been given may have certainty, and that believers may increase in faith; and that those to whom the Scripture hath been given and believers may not doubt; and that those in whose hearts there is disease, and disbelievers, may say: What meaneth Allah by this similitude? Thus Allah sendeth astray whom He will, and whom He will He guideth. None knoweth the hosts of thy Lord save Him. This is naught else than a Reminder unto mortals.
...
74:35   It is one of the great ones.
74:36   A warning to human beings.

Salam see this verses:

85:21 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'?nun maj?dun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.
85:22 فى لوح محفوظ
F? lawHin maHf?Zin
In a tablet, preserved.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: Noon waalqalami on April 23, 2018, 08:27:08 AM
We  have interlock ,Mathematics has spoken to us now. So I am going by this fool proof method .

Imaginary interlock multiple hunting/numerology is as ignorant as flat earth and absurd hadith.

It was interesting conversing with everyone, need to focus on work ? have nice life all the best.

Peace!
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on May 04, 2018, 08:53:23 AM
Salaam,



- chapter 27 Al-Naml  is linked to chapter  9 Al-Tawbah because of the absence of the basmalah in
  chapter 9  Al-Tawbah and the inside basmalah in chapter 27  Al-Naml .

- chapter Al-Naml has 93 verses.
- All verses end with the letter nun  ن except 9 verses, ending with the letter meem  م
84 verses end with the letter nun  ن
9 verses end with the letter meem م
--------------
- The 9 words at the end of the  9 verses ending  with the letter meem  م consist of  9 different letters .

عليم    الحكيم   رحيم  عظيم  العظيم  كريم  الرحيم   كريم  العليم

ع  ل  ي  م  ا  ح  ك  ر ظ
------------
- The sum of of the verse numbers of these 9 verses ending with the letter meem م is 252

    6 + 9 + 11 + 23 + 26 + 29 + 30 + 40 + 78 = 252   is a multiple of 9   (  252 = 9 ? 28 )


-The letter meem م is mentioned in chapter 27 Al-Naml  396 times, a multiple of 9  
 ( 396 = 9 ? 44 )

44 is the sum of the letters of the  9 words at the end of the  9 verses ending  with the letter meem م





link to chapter  9 Al-Tawbah

- There are 9 words beginning with the letter meem  م at the end of  9 verses in chapter  27  Al-Naml .
- These 9 words consist of 9 different letters .

و   د  ر  س ل  م  ب ي ن

    verse number and last word:

81   80   75   42   38   31   21   13   1

مبين    مبين   مبين  مسلمين   مسلمين   مسلمين   مبين   مدبرين   مسلمون       
 


A reference to the chapter number 27  Al-Naml ?

- The word Allah الله is mentioned 27 times in chapter Al-Naml.

-The first initial letter of chapter Al-Naml is the letter  ط  and this letter is repeated 27 times in this chapter.


chapter 27 Al-Naml  verse 27

This verse  has 27 letters.

قال سننظر اصدقت ام كنت من الكذبين

ق ا ل س ن ن ظ ر ا ص د ق ت ا م ك ن ت م ن ا ل ك ذ ب ي ن


27:27    He said, "We will see if you are being truthful or are one of those who lie."

----------

This verse is the 3186  th verse from the beginning of the Qur'an

3186 = 27 ?118

----------

and the 3051  th verse from the end of the Qur'an.

3051 = 27 ?113

-----------

- The letter qaf ق   is repeated 120 times in this chapter, equal to the sum of the chapter  number ( 27 ) and the number of verses ( 93 ).

- The first letter of  verse 27  is the letter qaf ق and  is preceded by 27  letters qaf ق   from the  beginning of this chapter.

 - And from  verse 27 to the end of this chapter  there are 93 letters qaf ق    

- The initial letter seen س  is repeated 93 times in this chapter.

----------

source:
Arabic:
https://vb.tafsir.net/tafsir33323/#.WutE_38uCCi
https://www.quranway.com/article/%D9%85%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%8A%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%85%D9%84


The software for counting verses , words and letters,....( arabic)

http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/1/1690-2014-07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9obKsQW-2LlazNfQjRGYS1ORlk/view


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on September 15, 2018, 10:22:16 AM
Salaam,



 - There is only one chapter (  chapter 82 ) in the Quran that ends with the name " Allah " , this  chapter has 19 verses.

- and this is the 19 th occurrance of the name " Allah  " from the end of the Quran.


82:19
Yawma la tamliku nafsun linafsin shay-an waal-amru yawma-ithin lillahi

A day on which no soul hath power at all for any (other) soul. The (absolute) command on that day is Allah's. ( M. M. Pickthall )   

يَوْمَ لَا تَمْلِكُ نَفْسٌ لِّنَفْسٍ شَيْئًا وَالْأَمْرُ يَوْمَئِذٍ لِّلَّهِ   


The software for counting verses , words and letters,....( arabic)

http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/1/1690-2014-07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9obKsQW-2LlazNfQjRGYS1ORlk/view



Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: imrankhawaja on September 16, 2018, 06:38:41 PM
some more facts...

if there is only one chapter ending with name ALLAH then there must b one chapter started with the name of Allah oooh hold on for a second....

infact every chapter started with the name of GOD. but lets keep the bislmillahs section at side for the sake of argument and we can see there is only one chapter i e chap 3 in which u can see the speech started with Allah but there is one quranic initial is before that ?

so how you see that coincidence with help of any code thing ? do some trials you may find some multiples of 19 with lot of fail trials ?

now its quite intersting or a coincidence all this research i did in just 10 mins.. to find out the hidden failed trials lol

another thing what i find out is ,even in some chapters there is not a name of God mention= ( if we keep the bismillah section at side) more intresting thing , right in the middle of quran cahpters( 3 chapters )in a row dnt even have name Allah in all of the speech of those chapters 54,55,56

i wonder how possible the name of Allah missing in a beautiful chapter like 55 ?

only we can find out with the help of code nineteen so i request all of them to help me understanding it with code ?
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on September 17, 2018, 08:19:31 AM
Salaam,



For those who oppose a numerical structure of the Quran,
what is your understanding of these verses in chapter 74 and the purpose of  mentioning number 19 ?



74:24       Faqala in hatha illa sihrun yu' tharu

74:25       In hatha illa qawlu albashari

74:26       Saosleehi saqara

74:27       Wama adraka ma saqaru

74:28       La tubqee wala tatharu

74:29       Lawwahatun lilbashari

74:30       AAalayha tisAAata AAashara

74:31       Wama jaAAalna as-haba alnnari illa mala-ikatan wama jaAAalna AAiddatahum illa fitnatan lillatheena kafaroo liyastayqina allatheena ootoo alkitaba wayazdada allatheena amanoo eemanan wala yartaba allatheena ootoo alkitaba waalmu/minoona waliyaqoola allatheena fee quloobihim maradun waalkafiroona matha arada Allahu bihatha mathalan kathalika yudillu Allahu man yashao wayahdee man yashao wama yaAAlamu junooda rabbika illa huwa wama hiya illa thikra lilbashari

74:32       Kalla waalqamari

74:33       Waallayli ith adbara

74:34       Waalssubhi itha asfara

74:35       Innaha la-ihda alkubari

74:36       Natheeran lilbashari


And your understanding of this verse :


72:28     LiyaAAlama an qad ablaghoo risalati rabbihim waahata bima ladayhim waahsa kulla shay-in AAadadan




Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on September 28, 2018, 01:07:46 AM
Salaam,



    In the Quran the word Saqarسقر is related to number 19.


    74:26 I will cast him in / I shall cause him to endure "Saqar".

    74:27 And what could make thee conceive what "Saqar"is?

    74:28 It does not spare nor leave.

    74:29 Manifest/making visible to human beings / mortal man.

    74:30 Over it (are)nineteen.



    -The word Saqarسقر is mentioned 4 times in 4 verses in two chapters, chapter 54 Al-Qamar and chapter 74 Al-Mudaththir.


   
    54:48 On the Day when they shall be dragged into the fire on their faces( wujoohihim ),
              [they will be told:] “Taste now the touch of "Saqar""!”


    74:26 I will cast him in / I shall cause him to endure "Saqar".

    74:27 And what could make thee conceive what "Saqar" is?

    74:42 What has brought you into "Saqar"?






    1 - Between these two chapters, there are 19 chapters.


    54    55    56    57    58    59    60    61    62    63    64    65    66    67    68    69    70    71    72    73    74



    2 - The total words of the 4 verses where the word Saqar سقر is mentioned is 19 words.


chapter          number                                              verse text                                 
verse             of words
                                                                   
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                                                                                 
                              
54:48         ( 9 words )     يوم    يسحبون    في    النار    علي    وجوههم    ذوقوا    مس    سقر

74:26         ( 2 words )                                                                                                ساصليه    سقر

74:27         ( 4 words )                                                                               و ما    ادريك    ما    سقر
   
74:42         ( 4 words )                                                                                 ما    سلككم    في    سقر
   
                     
                           

    3 - The Arabic word Saqar سقر is composed of 3 letters: Seen س . Qaf ق . Ra ر .

    The sum of the occurrences of these 3 letters in the 4 verses is 19 times .


Seen = 8 times

Qaf  = 5 times

Ra  = 6 times
.



    4 - The total letters of these 4 verses consist of 19 different letters.



  ي   و    ه    ن    م    ل    ك    ق    ف    ع    ص    س    ر    ذ    د    ح    ج    ب    ا



    Source:

    -The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)

    http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
    or
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...RGYS1ORlk/view

    -Quran : Uthmani Script.


    والله اعلم
    Allah knows best.

Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: good logic on September 28, 2018, 03:35:51 AM
Peace: ibn_a.
 Some would say, coincidence and infatuation with 19, and  so what?

 But  GOD has set up the maths framework and signed it with number 19, then inserted every letter in its right place and arranged Qoran to fit the frame. A mathematically structured book.
If us and the Jinn kind got together to produce a book like Qoran and gathered all our number and literature knowledge, we will fail to do so. Impossible to imitate.
In fact ,future quantum computers will fail to do so.
Amazing, the book is locked /preserved for good.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on September 29, 2018, 12:40:42 AM
Salaam,



Peace: ibn_a.
 Some would say, coincidence and infatuation with 19, and  so what?

 But  GOD has set up the maths framework and signed it with number 19, then inserted every letter in its right place and arranged Qoran to fit the frame. A mathematically structured book.
If us and the Jinn kind got together to produce a book like Qoran and gathered all our number and literature knowledge, we will fail to do so. Impossible to imitate.
In fact ,future quantum computers will fail to do so.
Amazing, the book is locked /preserved for good.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Peace  good logic,

Like the Quran verse 74:31  predicted ; different groups will have different attitudes:

-Those who disbelieve / reject.
-Those who were given the Book / Scripture.
-Those who believe.
-The believers.
-Those in whose hearts there is disease.
-The disbelievers / rejecters.


والله اعلم
Allah knows best.
Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on October 09, 2018, 09:05:31 AM
Salaam,



Link between Chapter 1 AL-Fatiha ( The Opening ) and chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ).

In the Quran there are only 2 chapters that begin with the letter Ba ب .
Chapter 1 AL-Fatiha ( The Opening ) and chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ).

Chapter 1 AL-Fatiha ( The Opening ) is the only one that opens with a numbred basmalah.
Chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ) is the only one that opens without a basmalah.

---------

Observations in chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance )

- The letter Ba ب in the Quran

 The letter Ba ب   is the 9 th most used letter in the Quran and this is also the case in chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ).

--------

- Words that begin with the letter ba ب in chapter  9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ).

In chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ) there are 114 words that begin with the letter Ba ب
114 is the total number of chapters in the Quran.


The 114 words by order of their appearance in chapter  9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ) :
 
1   براه      
2   بري      
3   بعذاب      
4   بانهم      
5   بافوههم      
6   بايت      
7   بعد      
8   باخراج      
9   بدوكم      
10   بايديكم      
11   بما      
12   بالكفر      
13   بالله      
14   بالله      
15   بامولهم      
16   برحمه      
17   بامره      
18   بما      
19   بعد      
20   بعد      
21   بالله      
22   باليوم      
23   بافوههم      
24   بافوههم      
25   بالهدي      
26   بالبطل      
27   بعذاب      
28   بها      
29   به      
30   بالحيوه      
31   بجنود      
32   بامولكم      
33   بعدت      
34   بالله      
35   بالله      
36   بامولهم      
37   بالمتقين      
38   بالله      
39   بالظلمين      
40   بالكفرين      
41   بنا      
42   بكم      
43   بعذاب      
44   بايدينا      
45   بالله      
46   بها      
47   بالله      
48   بالله      
49   بالله      
50   بما      
51   بعد      
52   بانهم      
53   بعضهم      
54   بعض      
55   بالمنكر      
56   بخلقهم      
57   بخلقكم      
58   بخلقهم      
59   بالبينت      
60   بعضهم      
61   بعض      
62   بالمعروف      
63   بالله      
64   بعد      
65   بما      
66   بخلوا      
67   به      
68   بما      
69   بانهم      
70   بالله      
71   بمقعدهم      
72   بامولهم      
73   بما      
74   بالقعود      
75   بالله      
76   بها      
77   بالله      
78   بان      
79   بامولهم      
80   بان      
81   بما      
82   بالله      
83   بما      
84   بكم      
85   بالله      
86   باحسن      
87   بذنوبهم      
88   بها      
89   بما      
90   بين      
91   بنينه      
92   بنينه      
93   به      
94   بنينهم      
95   بنوا      
96   بان      
97   بعهده      
98   ببيعكم      
99   بايعتم      
100   به      
101   بالمعروف      
102   بعد      
103   بعد      
104   بكل      
105   بعد      
106   بهم      
107   بما      
108   بانفسهم      
109   بانهم      
110   به      
111   بعضهم      
112   بعض      
113   بانهم      
114   بالمومنين      
      


- The name " Allah " in chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ).

The total number of times the word " Allah " is mentioned in chapter 9 Al-Tawbah ( Repentance ), is 169 times in 101 verses.
The total number of times the name  " Allah "  is mentioned more than once in these verses is 114 times.


--------

source:

https://www.quranway.com/article/%D8%A8%D8%B3%D9%85%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A9

The software to counting verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/1/1690-2014-07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9obKsQW-2LlazNfQjRGYS1ORlk/view


والله اعلم
Allah knows best.


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on November 02, 2018, 01:59:27 AM
Salaam,


Salaam.

Of the all Qur?n, chapter 9  is distinguished by being the only one that does not open with a  basmalah.
And chapter 27  is the only one that contains an inside basmalah, in addition to its opening basmalah.

Let us note, within the framework of this relation between 9 and 27, that the number 9 is the only one to be cited in chapter 27. It is cited 2 times.  (4 times in the Qur?n)

 The first time in verse 12:
"And make your hand accede to your pocket: it comes out white, different from the stain, in nine signs, to Pharaoh and his community, they were certainly a community [of] perverts"

 And the second time in verse 48:
"And there were in the state nine related ones who corrupt on the earth and do not reform "

The two instances of 9 cited in chapter 27 are located symmetrically on either side of the singular  basmalah(verse 30), one before it and the other after, at an equal distance.

And it is a 19 -verse distance. Indeed, from verse 12 to verse 30, which contains the singular basmalah, there are 19 verses, as well as from verse 30 to verse 48.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48

? source: (book: english): www.academia.edu/32938738/The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_2017_ (http://www.academia.edu/32938738/The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_2017_)


Broken link in the first post, see new links:

http://scdofg.net/wp-content/uploads/flipbook/1/book.html#p=109
page 116 ...
or
https://www.scribd.com/document/348386912/The-Sun-Rises-in-the-West-2018-Farid-Gabteni
page 152 ...
or
https://www.academia.edu/37494956/Farid_Gabteni_-_The_Sun_Rises_in_the_West_9th_edition_2018_
page 152 ...


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on November 15, 2018, 07:20:39 AM
Salaam,



The first and the last verse of the Quran consisting of 19 different letters.


* The first verse of the Quran consisting of 19 different letters is 2:31

- And He imparted unto Adam the names of all things; then He brought them within the ken of the angels and said: "Declare unto Me the names of these [things], if what you say is true." ( Muhammad Asad )

- And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful. ( M. M. Pickthall )

- And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right." ( Yusuf Ali )

- WaAAallama adama al-asmaa kullaha thumma AAaradahum AAala almala-ikati faqala anbi-oonee bi-asma-i haola-i in kuntum sadiqeena

وعلم ادم الاسما كلها ثم عرضهم علي المليكه فقال انبوني باسما هولا ان كنتم صدقين

The 19 different letters:

ا ب ت ث د ر س ص ض ع ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي


This verse is the 38 th verse from the beginning of the Quran.

38 = 19 x 2


----



* The last verse of the Quran consisting of 19 different letters is 76:19


- And immortal youths will wait upon them: when thou seest them, thou wouldst deem them to be scattered pearls. ( Muhammad Asad )

- There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls. ( M. M. Pickthall )

- And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls. ( Yusuf Ali )

- Wayatoofu AAalayhim wildanun mukhalladoona itha raaytahum hasibtahum lu/lu-an manthooran

ويطوف عليهم ولدن مخلدون اذا رايتهم حسبتهم لولوا منثورا

The 19 different letters

ا ب ت ث ح خ د ذ ر س ط ع ف ل م ن ه و ي


This verse is the 627 th verse from the end of the Quran.

627 = 19 x 33

This verse is numbered 19

in chapter 76

76 = 19 x 4

----



والله اعلم

Allah knows best.


source:
Quran Uthmani Script

The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9obKsQW-2LlazNfQjRGYS1ORlk/view


Title: Re: 9 and 19
Post by: ibn_a on December 21, 2018, 08:04:56 AM
Salaam,


Chapter Maryam (Mary) is the 19 th chapter in the Quran.

The name Maryam (Mary) is mentioned in the Quran in :

12 chapters
34 times
in 31 verses
twice in 3 verses
once in 28 verses.

----------

- Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary) and the chapters with initial letters.

Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary) is a chapter with initial letters and  followed by 19 chapters with initial letters.

----------

- The first and last time the name  Maryam (Mary) is mentioned in the Quran

The first time the name  Maryam ( Mary )   is mentioned in the Quran, is in chapter 2 Al-Baqarah (The Cow) verse 87.
This verse consists of 19 different letters:

ولقد اتينا موسي الكتب وقفينا من بعده بالرسل واتينا عيسي ابن مريم البينت وايدنه بروح القدس افكلما جاكم رسول بما لا تهوي انفسكم استكبرتم ففريقا كذبتم وفريقا تقتلون

و,  ل , ق ,  د , ا , ت , ي , ن , م , س ,  ك , ب , ف , ع , ه , ر , ح , ج  , ذ

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!


----------

The last time the name Maryam ( Mary )  is mentioned in the Quran, is in chapter 66 At-Tahrim (Banning, Prohibition) verse 12.
This verse consists of 19 different letters:

ومريم ابنت عمرن التي احصنت فرجها فنفخنا فيه من روحنا وصدقت بكلمت ربها وكتبه وكانت من القنتين

و, م , ر , ي , ا , ب ,  ن , ت , ع , ل , ح , ص , ف , ج , ه , خ , د , ق , ك

And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

----------

- The different letters used in the 31 verses where the name Maryam (Mary) is mentioned.
 
 
count         chapter                verse      different letters used      
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1             2. Al-Baqarah              87                      19      
2             2. Al-Baqarah              253                    22      
3             3. Aali Imran               36                       21      
4             3. Aali Imran               37                       23      
5             3. Aali Imran               42                       17      
6             3. Aali Imran               43                       15      
7             3. Aali Imran               44                       19      
8             3. Aali Imran               45                       21      
9             4. An-Nisa’                  156                     15      
10           4. An-Nisa’                  157                     21      
11           4. An-Nisa’                  171                     21      
12           5. Al-Ma’idah              17                       22      
13           5. Al-Ma’idah              46                       19      
14           5. Al-Ma’idah              72                       21      
15           5. Al-Ma’idah              75                       22      
16           5. Al-Ma’idah              78                       16      
17           5. Al-Ma’idah             110                      22      
18           5. Al-Ma’idah             112                      19      
19           5. Al-Ma’idah             114                      17      
20           5. Al-Ma’idah             116                      20      
21           9. At-Taubah              31                        18      
22          19. Maryam                16                        15      
23          19. Maryam                27                        15      
24          19. Maryam                34                        17      
25           23. Al-Mu’minun       50                        14      
26           33. Al-Ahzab              7                          19      
27           43. Az-Zukhruf          57                        16      
28           57. Al-Hadid              27                        22      
29           61. As-Saf                   6                         21      
30           61. As-Saf                  14                        21      
31           66. At-Tahrim           12                        19      
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------               
                    total of these different letters =   589      
               

589 = 19 x 31

19  chapter number of chapter Maryam (Mary)
31  the number of verses where the name Maryam (Mary) is mentioned in the Quran


----------

- The name  Maryam (Mary) in Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary).

The name Maryam (Mary) in chapter 19 Maryam (Mary) is mentioned 3 times:

verse 16

And call to mind, through this divine writ, Mary. Lo! She withdrew from her family to an eastern place.

واذكر في الكتب مريم اذ انتبذت من اهلها مكانا شرقيا

verse 27

And in time she returned to her people, carrying the child with her. They said: "O Mary! Thou hast indeed done an amazing thing!

فاتت به قومها تحمله قالوا يمريم لقد جيت شيا فريا

verse 34

Such was, in the words of truth, Jesus the son of Mary, about whose nature they so deeply disagree.

ذلك عيسي ابن مريم قول الحق الذي فيه يمترون


- From verse 16 to verse 34 there are 19 verses.

- The total number of letters of these 3 verses is 114 letters.

----------

- The letters of the name  Maryam (Mary) مريم in  Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary)

the number of occurences of the letters of the name Maryam (Mary) مريم in chapter 19 Maryam (Mary) :


Meem  =       287
Ra       =        167
Ya        =        342
Meem  =       287
------------------------
                   = 1083

1083 = 19 x 19 x 3


----------

- The sum of the verse numbers where the name Maryam ( Mary ) is mentioned.

The sum of the verse numbers where the name Maryam (Mary) is mentioned From the beginning of the Quran up to Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary) is 1919
 
87   253   36   37   42   43   44   45   156   157   171   17   46   72   75   78   110   112   114   116   31   16   27   34   =   1919   

----------


- Verses where the name  Maryam (Mary) is mentioned once

The name Maryam (Mary) is mentioned in the Quran  "once" in 28 verses.

The 19 th time the name Maryam (Mary)  is mentioned  in these 28 verses, is in verse 16 in Chapter 19 Maryam (Mary)

----------

For an explanation about numbers and number 19 in the Quran:
e.g.
- chapter 72:28
- chapter 74:24-36



والله اعلم
Allah knows best.



source Arabic :
http://www.alargam.com/prove2/burhan2/9.htm
http://quraaneajaz.blogspot.com/2014/09/19-34.html
Quran Uthmani Script
The software to count verses , words and letters,....( Arabic)
http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/index.php/...07-03-19-11-02
or
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9obKsQW-2LlazNfQjRGYS1ORlk/view