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World News => Discuss Latest World News => Topic started by: عوني on December 16, 2017, 06:10:20 AM

Title: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on December 16, 2017, 06:10:20 AM
hi what do you think about Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_Israeli_capital
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: HP_TECH on December 16, 2017, 07:57:33 AM
I think he is a filthy cuckservative.
Seriously he is a war monger and this decision does no avail any peace proceedings.
He is either after something for himself, or attempting to be portrayed as the champion of Israel by the illiterate retarded Christian cuckservative Zionist right wing.
He could also be smoothing Israel down to garner support in preparation for another run of war games in the Middle East look what's happening with UAE, Lebanon, Iran. Things are moving again....
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Neptin on December 17, 2017, 07:29:40 AM
I think Trump move was a poor one. But am keeping my fingers crossed, researching deeper into the issue before jumping to conclusion like many Muslims already done. The subject has already been drenched in pro-Muslim sentiments and I am trying as much as possible to take my time to reach an objective conclusion instead of joining the bandwagons. We need to analyze the situation from a political mindset of Palestine and Israel, not Muslim and Jews/Christians as most people already resort to.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on December 17, 2017, 08:25:29 AM
I think Trump move was a poor one. But am keeping my fingers crossed, researching deeper into the issue before jumping to conclusion like many Muslims already done. The subject has already been drenched in pro-Muslim sentiments and I am trying as much as possible to take my time to reach an objective conclusion instead of joining the bandwagons. We need to analyze the situation from a political mindset of Palestine and Israel, not Muslim and Jews/Christians as most people already resort to.

It is not a question of muslims or christians or jews it is a question of imperialism and colonilism and sntching counrties by the law of raw weapon power. According to intenrational law there is not anything complicated in it. To make it into a religoous question is to look for excuses for the greatest scam, hypocrisy and overrumpling of international law.

?Long live a unified Palestine!

And may God shorten the suffering of tthe occupied and slow motion genocided population of Palestine.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Jafar on December 17, 2017, 09:04:21 AM
The subject has already been drenched in pro-Muslim sentiments and I am trying as much as possible to take my time to reach an objective conclusion instead of joining the bandwagons. We need to analyze the situation from a political mindset of Palestine and Israel, not Muslim and Jews/Christians as most people already resort to.

Which Christians?
There are many Palestinian Christians (8% of Palestinian Citizens) as there are many Israeli Muslims (18% of Total Israeli Citizens). This is a conflict of National Identity... over land..

The ideal solution is to disband BOTH Zionist Israel and Arabian Palestine nationality and create one unified nationality / identity. It just a matter of time as Nationalism is on it's downward spiraling trend nowadays..

As for Trump, well the moves doesn't serve anyone interest..
Yet politicians did something usually due to domestic reasons..
Perhaps he thinks this move will boost his approval rating from US Evangelical Christians segment..
Which doesn't seem to be working..



Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: hawk99 on December 17, 2017, 09:53:06 AM
hi what do you think about Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_Israeli_capital

Peace  عوني

President trump's incompetency is on display moving the embassy to placate
his base meanwhile sowing further discord in the region, this devil is a threat
to all who different from him and his.


                                                   :peace:
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on December 17, 2017, 11:44:44 AM
I think he is a filthy cuckservative.
Seriously he is a war monger and this decision does no avail any peace proceedings.
He is either after something for himself, or attempting to be portrayed as the champion of Israel by the illiterate retarded Christian cuckservative Zionist right wing.
He could also be smoothing Israel down to garner support in preparation for another run of war games in the Middle East look what's happening with UAE, Lebanon, Iran. Things are moving again....

Very true. 



I think Trump move was a poor one. But am keeping my fingers crossed, researching deeper into the issue before jumping to conclusion like many Muslims already done. The subject has already been drenched in pro-Muslim sentiments and I am trying as much as possible to take my time to reach an objective conclusion instead of joining the bandwagons. We need to analyze the situation from a political mindset of Palestine and Israel, not Muslim and Jews/Christians as most people already resort to.

I agree that it was a poor move although I'm not sure what you mean by pro-Muslim sentiment? If by pro-Muslim sentiment = supporting Palestine you mean then I disagree as I've seen more support to Israel from religious Muslims than for Palestine. Worst are Muslim clerics who will try to argue that Jerusalem/Israel belongs to the Jews because the Qur'an says so even though there's nothing in the Qur'an talking about the land belonging to Jews, instead the Qur'an talks about the children of Israel whom are the Israelites and not Jews letalone Israelis. Being a Muslim does not nessecarily mean you support Palestine, a lot do support Israel and it's usually people who are not even born into the conflict (non-Arabs) who either have a massive Jew obsession or hate Arabs. But yes the majority do support Palestine and some of it is probaly because the majority Palestinians are Muslims and are a part of the Muslim ummah and if Israel messes with the Palestinians then it's messing with the other Muslim countries. There's really nothing wrong with supporting Palestine because the majority are Muslims when you think about it but sure there are better reasons to actually support the Palestinians however it's also understandable to why many Muslims would want to support the Palestinians. Most other Muslims I've met who supported Palestine never supported it because the majority are Muslims but rather because the Palestinians there are being oppressed by Israel which is the right reason to support the Palestinians. Israel also has a history of aiding terrorist groups in other Muslim countries. Did you also know that a lot of Palestinian Christians are very opposed to Trump's decision? This is because this conflict is not Islam vs Jew, Islam has nothing to do with the conflict, it's Israel that wants to make it look like that so it can attract cowardly Islamophobic right-wing European support to its side and the irony about these right-wing politicians is that their favorite parties usually have their origin in Nazism and Facism but as long as they support Israel who cares right? I actually never used to be so interested in the conflict until I started to read more about it and now I'm totally a supporter of Palestine even though my origin is from Tiberias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberias) which is occupied by Israel today with US blessing. What I don't like are ex-Muslims and Muslims who likes to portray the Palestinian side as 'anti-semitic', this is hugely misrepresenting and needs to be adressed. There's Jewish Zionist politicians in political parties in Europe were these political parties have their origin in Facism and Nazism, here's an example: https://www.timesofisrael.com/swedish-proudly-nationalist-jewish/ article is titled 'In pro-Palestine Sweden, far-right Jewish lawmaker embraces Israel' meanwhile there's a lot of Jews who support Palestine. If I remember it right the person who contributed to this pro-Palestinian site http://www.palestineremembered.com/ (http://www.palestineremembered.com/) was a Jew (check it out too, it has very interesting facts and references a lot to the book Survey of Palestine which was prepared by the British Mandate for the United Nations)

There's a lot of reasons to why I don't believe that Jerusalem belongs to Israel. Even though Trump decided to move the US embassy to the Israeli controlled part of Jerusalem it does reinforce Israeli occupation of the area which is all the reason to oppose it beside the fact that Israel has really no claim to any of its land.

Israel just killed a Palestinian on a wheelchair who was protesting: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/palestinian-double-amputee-killed-israeli-sniper-171216113544411.html And they've killed plenty of other civilians too while they get away with it with the help of the US. They've injured a lot of Palestinians too.


The ideal solution is to disband BOTH Zionist Israel and Arabian Palestine nationality and create one unified nationality / identity. It just a matter of time as Nationalism is on it's downward spiraling trend nowadays..

I disagree. Why abandon 'Arabian Palestine nationality'? It won't really make a single difference and it will just kill the Palestinian identity which is what Israel wants. Being an Arab does not give you any less rights to the land, infact it only makes it better for the Palestinians as the Palestinians are an Arabized people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabization#The_Fertile_Crescent_and_Syria_(region)) and they can always point out arabization. A lot of Palestinians don't oppose Israel because they're Palestinians it's because Israel is killing Palestinians. You can still be a Palestinian and oppose nationalism (even Palestinian nationalism), infact I think Dj Khaled is one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-454jnA8qxY) of those people. And I don't support a one state solution, it might have been a possible solution many many years ago but today it isn't. Tbh I wouldn't want to live in the same state as crazy criminal settlers who burned and killed a Palestinian toddler. A lot of Israeli soldiers are criminals that are responsible for the killing of Palestinians. Israel's airforce recently injured up to thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. See the article I posted above. It's really easy to take the neutral side in the conflict (because you think it will give you the high moral ground) but that's because you don't understand what Palestinians go through. Now you can argue that Israelis also face attacks from Palestinians but fact still remains that Israel has still killed a lot more civilians and that the reasons for most of these attacks is because theyre living in the homes that once belonged to the Palestinian Arabs and a lot of Israelis have killed Palestinians here and there and they get away with it too. If you take over anyones home and kill their relatives or family then you can pretty much expect the same response regardless of where it is. Israel also likes to whine a lot about Hamas even though more Israelis die by peanut allergy each year than Hamas rockets.



Peace  عوني

President trump's incompetency is on display moving the embassy to placate
his base meanwhile sowing further discord in the region, this devil is a threat
to all who different from him and his.


                                                   :peace:


Totally agree with you bro.  :handshake: Palestinians, Rohingyas and Kashmiris deserve to be free from their oppressors. Modi, Nethanjahu and Ashin Wirathu are all criminals and Trump is the person supporting their warcrimes.



Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on December 21, 2017, 12:16:37 PM
I read this recent article, the countries that voted today in the UN regarding Jerusalem, 128 states opposed Trump's decision. Keep in mind that the US actually threatened (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/20/donald-trump-threat-cut-aid-un-jerusalem-vote) countries regarding their stance on Jerusalem. Trump said he would cancel all the aid money to countries that reject Trumps decision which could explain why some decided to vote against or abstained from voting, i.e. because of fear but despite that most countries actually laughed at the empty threats from the US:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/jerusalem-resolution-country-voted-171221180116873.html
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Layth on December 23, 2017, 09:25:19 AM
Salam,

Jerusalem fell in 1967 to occupation, so I see it as irrelevant if someone wants to move their embassy and recognize it as Israel's capital or not because de-facto it is taken...

We are living the prophecy of Sura 17 where the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth and be gathered from every place. It is an amazing to witness a prophecy come true in-front of our eyes.

The prophecy ends with Israel's destruction and the Temple being retaken, so I would not worry about the trivial details in-between.

As for the UN - they are the body that legitimized Israel in 1948, so I see their stance as being irrelevant since they (and most of their member states) have contributed to this evil.

Regards,

Layth
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: HP_TECH on December 24, 2017, 08:46:32 AM
Peace Layth,

It has already been debunked for years that the occupying body of ashkenazi Jews who advocate white supremacy etc.. have zero relation to the Bani Israil. The Palestinians are of exponentially closer kin to the ancient Israelites than the impostors.
This has been proven many years ago, by genetic testing and its also evident. If you need sunscreen to live in the middle east, well.....yeah...

So the prophecy you are speaking about is not in the right context.

Do you really think all the white Jews they are gathering from Europe and US and settling there are Semitic peoples?
Come on! They are Russian, Polish, German converts!

Essentially you could claim some of them (because most are secular anyway now days) are Yehudi, but never Israelites.

The Ethiopians, Palestinians even Yemeni Yehudi, these peoples of Afro-Asia, have the closest relation to the ancient Israelites.

So if we have understood the Verses well, it cannot be applied to some converted pretenders. 

Is it not possible that the second time the homes had been entered upon occurred already?

In fact, historically it happened a LOOOTTT

Why would you assume it has not occurred already?

Take a look at this: http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/attacks-on-jerusalem-timeline.html


Or perhaps it is yet to come until the true descendants have control over the region.
Again I completely discredit the idea that these ashkenazi impostors have any relation to the Ancient Israelites.

Was there a period of time, in which the true descendants had control over the region and then lost it?



Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on December 24, 2017, 10:59:29 AM
Peace Layth,

It has already been debunked for years that the occupying body of ashkenazi Jews who advocate white supremacy etc.. have zero relation to the Bani Israil. The Palestinians are of exponentially closer kin to the ancient Israelites than the impostors.
This has been proven many years ago, by genetic testing and its also evident. If you need sunscreen to live in the middle east, well.....yeah...

So the prophecy you are speaking about is not in the right context.

Do you really think all the white Jews they are gathering from Europe and US and settling there are Semitic peoples?
Come on! They are Russian, Polish, German converts!

Essentially you could claim some of them (because most are secular anyway now days) are Yehudi, but never Israelites.

The Ethiopians, Palestinians even Yemeni Yehudi, these peoples of Afro-Asia, have the closest relation to the ancient Israelites.

So if we have understood the Verses well, it cannot be applied to some converted pretenders. 

Is it not possible that the second time the homes had been entered upon occurred already?

In fact, historically it happened a LOOOTTT

Why would you assume it has not occurred already?

Take a look at this: http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/attacks-on-jerusalem-timeline.html


Or perhaps it is yet to come until the true descendants have control over the region.
Again I completely discredit the idea that these ashkenazi impostors have any relation to the Ancient Israelites.

Was there a period of time, in which the true descendants had control over the region and then lost it?


I agree with what you say 100% and at other times before I would have disagreed with Layth. But this time around, while I was reading it, I thought: there are in the Qur'an instances where we get two different attitudes amongst the Bani isra'il, that of the faithful, and that of the arrogant and unfaithful. And it occurred to me, what if the talk is not about blood lines but about character lines. The catastrohic prophecies in that case should apply to the Bani Isra'il who have betrayed their purported allegiance, in which case, seeing all the weight the zionnist hords put on their being vchosen and given that land they would eminently deserve the acknowledgment as the unfaithful and false bani isra'il, those who earn the condemnation.

I would have to check every aya of the Qur'an dealing with this, but it may be worth considering this prophecy from htat point of view.

On the other hand, whether that has already occurred, again it occurs to me, what if it was not a two times occurence but rather a returning occurrence every time that the same actions are executed. That is wherever and whenever the betrayors bani Isra'il betray, they get thrown out.


Salaam
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: lilyfleur on December 24, 2017, 05:16:20 PM
At what point does it become more important for Quran-only Muslims to focus on the issue of irradiating Hadith and the fake religion it has spawned, rather than focusing hatred on America? Perhaps, Allah is furious with "Muslim" countries for bending, contorting and downright ruining the message He intended us to receive and benefit from? Think about it, if you were God, who would you be most pissed at? I personally take any and every opportunity online I am presented with to speak out against Hadith and attempt to explain the positive message within the Quran. How often do you think American's listen to an American/woman/convert? How often do you think "Muslims" from predominantly "Muslim" countries listen to me? I wouldn't wish for anyone to put themselves in harms way, but the reality is that this movement must be formed and activated by men in "Muslim" countries. This situation with Jerusalem is merely yet another distraction from the work I believe you all know must be undertaken. Peace 
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Jafar on December 24, 2017, 10:48:44 PM
On the other hand, whether that has already occurred, again it occurs to me, what if it was not a two times occurence but rather a returning occurrence every time that the same actions are executed. That is wherever and whenever the betrayors bani Isra'il betray, they get thrown out.

The "Children Of Israel" never thrown out anywhere.. they are always there in middle east, breed and some of them migrate to every corner of the earth.. (As also any Children of any ancient people)..

Those who stayed in middle east, breed with incoming immigrants, evolved and recognized with (national) identity of today as Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanian, Saudis, Iraqis, Iranian, Ethiopian, Israelites, Yemenites etc...

The same case with 'tradition', Ancient Judaism evolved to be come something recognized as "Modern Judaism", "Christianity" and "Islam" with it's thousands of sects... That's why those people have similar 'mindset'? The "Bani Israil" mindset? (ie: Thinking that they are the only chosen people, God promised land to them, God wrote books for them).


It has already been debunked for years that the occupying body of ashkenazi Jews who advocate white supremacy etc.. have zero relation to the Bani Israil. The Palestinians are of exponentially closer kin to the ancient Israelites than the impostors.
This has been proven many years ago, by genetic testing and its also evident. If you need sunscreen to live in the middle east, well.....yeah...

So the prophecy you are speaking about is not in the right context.

Agree..

Let me create another prophecy...
The Zionism (and also Arabism or other ideology based on race / ethnicity) will dissolved eventually...
The Jewish State of Israel AND Arabic State of Palestines will dissolved following the death of each respective ideology..
On it's place a new 'state' based on a new ideology will be form...
It all happened before 2100..

 
Perhaps, Allah is furious with "Muslim" countries for bending, contorting and downright ruining the message He intended us to receive and benefit from? Think about it, if you were God, who would you be most pissed at?

No.. if Allah is the True God than He/It never get pissed at anybody or anything...
As everything happened in accordance to His plan...

God "get pissed" is also among the legacy of "Bani Israil" mindset which derived from their neighbor; "Ancient Egyptian" and "Ancient Sumerian" mindset..
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: lilyfleur on December 24, 2017, 11:47:05 PM
Jafar: "No.. if Allah is the True God than He/It never get pissed at anybody or anything...
As everything happened in accordance to His plan...

God "get pissed" is also among the legacy of "Bani Israil" mindset which derived from their neighbor; "Ancient Egyptian" and "Ancient Sumerian" mindset.."

Except for these times? ...

Chapter 4
4:93 And whoever kills a believer intentionally, then his recompense shall be Hell, abiding therein, and God will be angry with him, and curse him, and for him is prepared a great retribution.
Chapter 5
5:60 Say: "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path."
Chapter 48
48:6 And He will punish the hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, and the polytheist males and the polytheist females; they think evil thoughts about God. Their evil will come back to them, and God was angry with them, and He has cursed them and prepared for them Hell. What a miserable destiny!
Chapter 58
58:14 Have you noted those who befriended people with whom God is angry? They are now neither from you nor from them. And they deliberately swear to lies while they know!
Chapter 60
60:13 O you who believe, do not ally a people with whom God is angry; for they have given up regarding the Hereafter, just like the rejecters have given up on the people who are already in the graves.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Cerberus on December 25, 2017, 12:32:47 AM
At what point does it become more important for Quran-only Muslims to focus on the issue of irradiating Hadith and the fake religion it has spawned, rather than focusing hatred on America? Perhaps, Allah is furious with "Muslim" countries for bending, contorting and downright ruining the message He intended us to receive and benefit from? Think about it, if you were God, who would you be most pissed at? I personally take any and every opportunity online I am presented with to speak out against Hadith and attempt to explain the positive message within the Quran. How often do you think American's listen to an American/woman/convert? How often do you think "Muslims" from predominantly "Muslim" countries listen to me? I wouldn't wish for anyone to put themselves in harms way, but the reality is that this movement must be formed and activated by men in "Muslim" countries. This situation with Jerusalem is merely yet another distraction from the work I believe you all know must be undertaken. Peace

Take notes everyone, this is how you deflect a subject from "Jerusalem and the zionist serving America" to " Quran alone peeps should focus on fighting Hadith peeps". All this while secretly taking jabs at Quran peeps by usage of some pretty well hidden sarcasm. Almost scary how someone would just pop out of nowhere to meticulously write such a dishonest message.

Yea, "Peace", whatever that means for you.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on December 25, 2017, 01:00:38 AM
Dishonesty and and going off the tangent, and muddling issues turning into something else silly and incongruous is the run of the mill attitutde of some assiduous or non assiduous of this forum. Never mind. Taking the time to read is a waste of time.

Salaam

 
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on December 25, 2017, 10:32:08 AM
Hi Layth I agree with you especially on the UN. I do find this organization to be terrible and it has a history of recognizing Israel too while its actions against Israel never actually takes place (due to US VETO which makes the UN look like dictatorship) but personally I don't think it's irrelevant that the US embassy is being moved there because it's only going to make it harder for the Arab Levant countries to recapture Jerusalem now (if they ever decided to) without easily involving the US since the embassy acts like a "human-shield". Israel wants to move the US embassy to Jerusalem because it wants to use these embassies as shield so if there's ever clashes especially inner-clashes there (which would most likely affect the embassies too) Israel could just blame it on its enemies and convince the country that the group is the problem (and not itself) which is only going to unnecessarily involve countries. Just notice how Israel is desperately trying to push the US into war with Iran because it's too cowardly to do it itself. The Israeli government also encourages Jews to Immigrate to Israel because it wants to use them as human shield too. With more people Immigrating to the land it would make it harder for the neighbouring Arab countries to ever recapture without causing high causilities. It's the same with the embassy thing. By moving the US embassy there it also strenghtens Israel's theft of the land because right now Jerusalem is already very controversial (just like the Golan Heights) and if the US moves its embassy there (and if other countries started doing the same) then it would be something that would have been forgotten about which is what Israel wants.

Regarding the prophecies wouldn't you say this has already happened hundreds of years ago? I tweeted something similar on my Twitter many weeks ago: https://twitter.com/WintryMG/status/939469150094876672 I read the verses talking about the Children of Israel for example and from how I have understood is that not a single translation mentions 'Jews' but rather "Children of Israel" which is its citizens, i.e. the Israelites. Corpus Qur'an also defines what Children of Israel is refering to here:

(https://i.imgur.com/UCGElF7.png?1)

Taken from: http://corpus.quran.com/concept.jsp?id=children-of-israel


Now when you look up the Israelites on wikipedia you'll find this article:

(https://i.imgur.com/2eo3xIQ.jpg?1)

Taken from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites

Notice the highlighted text, they're basically not existant anymore and they're considered to be different from 'Israeli' (hence the two different wiki articles) which is understandable. But basically the Qur'an is refering to the Israelites and not Israelis or Jews whenever it mentions Children of Israel. Some Islamophobic and pro-Israel websites (like this one: http://www.takeapen.org/Takeapen/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=996 which is titled "Even the Qur'an says that God gave the Land of Israel to the Jews !") likes to claim that the Qur'an "recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews" which it doesn't since it's not even mentioning Jew anywhere whenever these verses get brought up. That website has actually put brackets into the verses, e.g [Jews]. Here's a similar site that makes similar claims: http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html This article was actually written by a pro-Israel Imam yet in his own article not a single verse mentions 'Jew' when it comes to Israel.




It has already been debunked for years that the occupying body of ashkenazi Jews who advocate white supremacy etc.. have zero relation to the Bani Israil. The Palestinians are of exponentially closer kin to the ancient Israelites than the impostors.
This has been proven many years ago, by genetic testing and its also evident.

So the prophecy you are speaking about is not in the right context.

Do you really think all the white Jews they are gathering from Europe and US and settling there are Semitic peoples?
Come on! They are Russian, Polish, German converts!

True but I'd say not every white or Ashkenazi Jew is nessecarily of European origin, some do probaly have ancestry to the land although it would still be irrelevant if they did. History does say that some Jews fled to Europe when the Romans took over and sacked Jerusalem and these Jews settled down in Europe and married with the locals later on but probaly a lot of them lost their identity and ended up leaving their religion (to avoid persecution in society) too so some even became non-Jews. Skin-color does change a lot during interracial marriages and it's common. Palestinians also tend to look very different from each other (even when it comes to skin color) because they're very diverse in terms of appearance. Appearance doesn't make you less native to the land. You could be white, tan-skinned or black-skinned and you can still cluster equally to the population in Palestine. Ashkenazi makes up to 10-12 million people so the chances of some actually clustering close with the Palestinians isn't that low. But that's the problem with Judaism you don't know who really does and who doesn't and even if some did it would still be irrelevant. Fact shows that Palestinian Arabs outnumbered Jews (including Palestinian Jews) in every city in Palestine (prior to the existance of Israel) and the Palestinian Arabs owned a lot more homes too because they were there first. Just because I have some ancestry in let's say somewhere in China doesn't mean I can come there and knock on their door and tell them to get out because my ancestry have traditional holy heritage there. That's not how it works. And that's what the European Jews pretty much did with the Palestinian Arabs. A lot of Israelis are actually living on land that used to belong to the Palestinian Arabs.



At what point does it become more important for Quran-only Muslims to focus on the issue of irradiating Hadith and the fake religion it has spawned, rather than focusing hatred on America? Perhaps, Allah is furious with "Muslim" countries for bending, contorting and downright ruining the message He intended us to receive and benefit from? Think about it, if you were God, who would you be most pissed at? I personally take any and every opportunity online I am presented with to speak out against Hadith and attempt to explain the positive message within the Quran. How often do you think American's listen to an American/woman/convert? How often do you think "Muslims" from predominantly "Muslim" countries listen to me? I wouldn't wish for anyone to put themselves in harms way, but the reality is that this movement must be formed and activated by men in "Muslim" countries. This situation with Jerusalem is merely yet another distraction from the work I believe you all know must be undertaken. Peace

lol k
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: imrankhawaja on December 27, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
the rating of trump gone low among the presidents of united states.

he behave more like a joker i only laugh at things whatever he wills to do but he forget the will of God is absolute.

anyway last few weeks ago he invited some personalities and none of them arrived (surprisingly) he invite the media to cover a weird transmission. it appears he was talking with seats alone considering them as real people sitting there lol

so guys just dnt take him seriously like other people dnt take him seriously. the reply of his sickness is already been given by 128 countries including uk france and wellknown arab countries

about palestine/israel ( as you sow so shall you reap) cause and effect and what comes around what goes arounf etc

invaders make this state with shedding lot of blood and they captured what did not belong to them so the law of nature will effect on them with the same way how they acted upon it. they cannot escape from what they earn.

i remember once in the history invaders slaughter the people infront of their families and while doing it they make weird voices and more they sheed blood more they get satisfied ,a real blood thirsty image (how can someone do that)


a great example is the "changees khan/tamojeen" and his sons halaku khan from mongolia we witness the history is showing them as a threat throughout the world. the terror in the hearts of people can easily felt about them during the era

height of cruelty killing innocent civilians and captured women for lust burning the places when they leave making the poles with the heads of people and the general of army will give reward to the one who make a tallest pole (ufff i feel sick what has been happened to the world back in history)

but at this age of life we can see no more terror from mongolia empire (the empire lost in the pages of history)

every creation taste its expiry so israel issue will b sort out by the designed time by God / the creator of all events
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on January 01, 2018, 04:16:48 PM
the rating of trump gone low among the presidents of united states.

he behave more like a joker i only laugh at things whatever he wills to do but he forget the will of God is absolute.


Agreed. Aap ka shukriya for your reply and totally agree with you on Trump. :handshake: I think Trump is literally one of the worst president ever. Even now with what's happening in Iran it's pretty obvious he's trying to take advantage of and wants to ruin the country by creating instability. The irony is that he tweeted that he supported the protests in Iran yet he included them in his own ban. What's sad is that Saudi-Arabia gave him millions of dollars worth of gift when this money could have been donated to someone else.

Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: imrankhawaja on January 01, 2018, 05:06:41 PM
Agreed. Aap ka shukriya for your reply and totally agree with you on Trump. :handshake: I think Trump is literally one of the worst president ever. Even now with what's happening in Iran it's pretty obvious he's trying to take advantage of and wants to ruin the country by creating instability. The irony is that he tweeted that he supported the protests in Iran yet he included them in his own ban. What's sad is that Saudi-Arabia gave him millions of dollars worth of gift when this money could have been donated to someone else.



peace ,

BOLD u reallly made me happy saying thanks in urdu here you go free hug  :group:

yeh brother i m afraid he will become the reason of big war if it take place in near future(God knows best)

he started his sickness by banning 7 islamic countries
he continue to provoke north korea ( and try to play politics to finish common enemy china and japan through korea or whatever)
he support saudia and continue spreading TRANSGRESSION between a historical rivaly between sunni vs shia i.e saudia vs iran
he also taking piss with russia indirectly ( and russina never forget the cold war ) i think its time for them to take revenge from america..

its true that nations never forget their defeat and the islamic so called caliphate in the shape "saltant e usmania" in the shape of turkey  will give us more surprises in near future as they already played their role in both world wars

God bless humanity

Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 01, 2018, 10:42:28 PM
hi what do you think about Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_Israeli_capital

I agree, since the Jews are sadly being mocked by some Arabs. The point that we Arabs shouldn't forget is that Jerusalem was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years. King Solomon build the Great Temple there, the Messiah Jesus walked there and many other prophets that were sent by God.

We have to accept that Jews and Israelis have one of the biggest positions since Jesus was a Jew and is king and lord in the eternal paradise that is to come. We should life together and help each other instead of listening blindly to evil politicians who fuel their belly with fire and worship Satan.

Imagine what kind of super power the Arabs and Jews will become in the middle east if they start working together and act like brothers of each other since they actually are both cousins from each other and sons of Abraham their father.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Layth on January 01, 2018, 11:50:16 PM
Salam/Peace,

Quote
I agree, since the Jews are sadly being mocked by some Arabs. The point that we Arabs shouldn't forget is that Jerusalem was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years. King Solomon build the Great Temple there, the Messiah Jesus walked there and many other prophets that were sent by God.

This is not factually correct. Jerusalem was inhabited by Philistines prior to any of the Children of Israel residing there as the Children of Israel are directly related to Jacob/Israel whose entire progeny moved to Egypt and only came out many centuries later under Moses.

In addition, the temple/kingdom of Solomon is based in southern Arabia (yemen) where he was in proximity to Sheba. The Israelis have been excavating since 1967 trying to find any trace of the temple to no avail...

Quote
We have to accept that Jews and Israelis have one of the biggest positions since Jesus was a Jew and is king and lord in the eternal paradise that is to come. We should life together and help each other instead of listening blindly to evil politicians who fuel their belly with fire and worship Satan.

Taking peoples land by force is a crime - regardless who the criminal is. Also, as far as how powerful or great a people are, I'm sure Pharaoh and his soldiers won't agree with your logic :(

Quote
Imagine what kind of super power the Arabs and Jews will become in the middle east if they start working together and act like brothers of each other since they actually are both cousins from each other and sons of Abraham their father.

If my brother is a criminal, then he needs to stand trial and pay the price for his crime...The upside of how smart he is or how great an ally he may be is completely irrelevant!

Regards,

Layth
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 02, 2018, 07:00:20 AM
Peace,

before Trump was the puppet face of the corporation united States of America, he was in bed with the Khazarian mafia, this organisation is a global Ashkenazi network that in many ways controls the planet, these soulless (jinn) turds have caused no end of horror, suffering, misery and death, they should be hunted to extinction, and if they tell the stinking Trump and his den of soulless minions to do something, it is done.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 02, 2018, 12:55:00 PM
Salam/Peace,

This is not factually correct. Jerusalem was inhabited by Philistines prior to any of the Children of Israel residing there as the Children of Israel are directly related to Jacob/Israel whose entire progeny moved to Egypt and only came out many centuries later under Moses.

In addition, the temple/kingdom of Solomon is based in southern Arabia (yemen) where he was in proximity to Sheba. The Israelis have been excavating since 1967 trying to find any trace of the temple to no avail...

Taking peoples land by force is a crime - regardless who the criminal is. Also, as far as how powerful or great a people are, I'm sure Pharaoh and his soldiers won't agree with your logic :(

If my brother is a criminal, then he needs to stand trial and pay the price for his crime...The upside of how smart he is or how great an ally he may be is completely irrelevant!

Regards,

Layth

Read the Previous Scriptures if you want to know who lived there and why it's also important for the Jews and Israelis. Lol, the Temple was in Jerusalem on Mount Zion. That's what i believe. It's written in the Previous Scriptures.

The Last Temple was also in Jerusalem, in the time of Jesus, the Messiah. Read the Gospel.

I rather read the Books of God.

So i rather trust the Books of God, what else should i read if i even can't trust the Books of God? The internet posts of men?
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Layth on January 03, 2018, 09:22:39 AM
Salam Owl,

Think Temple of God (rather than Temple of Solomon) and all the scriptures will fall in sync.

Abraham called for the pilgrimage to Becca over 5,000 years ago. The Temple of Becca is Jerusalem, while the Temple in Mecca (amongst others) were mini stop overs to educate people on the Pilgrimage as Becca was not on any established path.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: HP_TECH on January 03, 2018, 03:16:06 PM
Peace,

before Trump was the puppet face of the corporation united States of America, he was in bed with the Khazarian mafia, this organisation is a global Ashkenazi network that in many ways controls the planet, these soulless (jinn) turds have caused no end of horror, suffering, misery and death, they should be hunted to extinction, and if they tell the stinking Trump and his den of soulless minions to do something, it is done.

Hitler tried to but instead of helping him the allied nations waged war against him. He left many alive and look at the result....
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: hawk99 on January 03, 2018, 06:28:56 PM
Peace,

before Trump was the puppet face of the corporation united States of America, he was in bed with the Khazarian mafia, this organisation is a global Ashkenazi network that in many ways controls the planet, these soulless (jinn) turds have caused no end of horror, suffering, misery and death, they should be hunted to extinction, and if they tell the stinking Trump and his den of soulless minions to do something, it is done.

Peace Abdun Nur, sorry to say they will not be hunted to extinction:

[15:36] He said, "My Lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected."
[15:37] He said, "You are respited.


I agree, since the Jews are sadly being mocked by some Arabs. The point that we Arabs shouldn't forget is that Jerusalem was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years. King Solomon build the Great Temple there, the Messiah Jesus walked there and many other prophets that were sent by God.

We have to accept that Jews and Israelis have one of the biggest positions since Jesus was a Jew and is king and lord in the eternal paradise that is to come. We should life together and help each other instead of listening blindly to evil politicians who fuel their belly with fire and worship Satan.

Imagine what kind of super power the Arabs and Jews will become in the middle east if they start working together and act like brothers of each other since they actually are both cousins from each other and sons of Abraham their father.

Peace owlwithbow, they are not the children of Israel, but the synagogue of satan!

Revelation 2:9
 I know your afflictions and your poverty?yet you are rich! I know about the slander
of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though
they are not, but are liars?I will make them come and fall down at your feet and
acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

                                                                 :peace:
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 03, 2018, 09:48:24 PM
Peace HP_TECH,

Hitler did not try to exterminate the Jews, it is another Jewish scam, they attempted the same lie after the first world war as well, but their grip on media, and institutions was not as strong, and having no rational like the work camps of Hitler to pervert into death camps, made people dismissed their false claims, it is all part of their prophecy to return to Israel, their requirement of the death of Jews, most people do not realize it was the Jews who instigated the second world war and they also extended the first work war considerably costing a vast number of lives. Also I did not suggest exterminating Jews but the members of the Khazarian mafia, people are invested in so many Ashkenazi lies they defend the horrors they commit, just as you are trained HP_TECH to defend them instantly, even when they are members of a vile mafia organisation with the lie of the fictional holocaust.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: imrankhawaja on January 03, 2018, 10:36:27 PM


If my brother is a criminal, then he needs to stand trial and pay the price for his crime...The upside of how smart he is or how great an ally he may be is completely irrelevant!



exactly  :bravo:

i agree with you my brother

God bless you
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 03, 2018, 11:52:11 PM
Peace Abdun Nur, sorry to say they will not be hunted to extinction:

[15:36] He said, "My Lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected."
[15:37] He said, "You are respited.


Peace owlwithbow, they are not the children of Israel, but the synagogue of satan!

Revelation 2:9
 I know your afflictions and your poverty?yet you are rich! I know about the slander
of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though
they are not, but are liars?I will make them come and fall down at your feet and
acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

                                                                 :peace:

I am not defending religious sectarian Jewish Pharisees, or ultra rich neo-zionist bankers that life with ribba. I am defending the children of Isaac and Jacob as an Arab and cousin of them.

Jesus was a Jew and the perfect 2nd Adam. He is the lord and king of mankind, and is a Jew.

I am just against that dumb political Palestinian vs Jews discussion. I am against people who act with hate, from both parties, if they are. I don't choose a side. I choose both to support, if they have a clean heart.

But i am not that type that is against Israel and Jerusalem. We have to know the history, and read the Previous Scriptures, to understand that also the Jews and Israelites have the right to own the land. If you can't kick a Palestinian from their land, then why can you kick an Israeli from theirs?

And to be honest, the whole dome of the rock should be removed from the place where the Temple stood. It's just a silly move that is all about politics and power. Imagine if some sectarian Jews started building a synagoge at the exact same spot where the Kaaba today is (if it were to be destroyed by time)..

May God bless you for sharing the Injeel.

I think those verses refer to sectarian Jews, the Pharisees, which i think nowadays are those who wear those black clothes etc. they can be compared to salafis, they are the exact same type of people. It won't be a suprise if the people who hijacked the Arabs worked together with those Pharisees to invent those ahadiths.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 04, 2018, 12:19:52 AM
Jesus is a fictional character, never existed, just like Moses, these fictions are created to control people, the old testament which until around a 1000 year ago was the old covenant, is a collection of fictional stories with zero physical evidence and quite a lot of contradictory physical evidence, the Jews never built the pyramids nor was they built by slaves.

The new testament was written jointly by, or with the guidance and instigation of, the two Emperors of the divided Roman Empire, the Vatican was reorganised and a religious hierarchy created, all other religions except Judaism and all medical centers in Europe and areas of Roman control were destroyed and a new monopolies created.

These books are no more valuable than toilet paper.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Scribbler on January 04, 2018, 01:00:42 AM
Jesus is a fictional character, never existed, just like Moses, these fictions are created to control people, the old testament which until around a 1000 year ago was the old covenant, is a collection of fictional stories with zero physical evidence and quite a lot of contradictory physical evidence, the Jews never built the pyramids nor was they built by slaves.

The new testament was written jointly by, or with the guidance and instigation of, the two Emperors of the divided Roman Empire, the Vatican was reorganised and a religious hierarchy created, all other religions except Judaism and all medical centers in Europe and areas of Roman control were destroyed and a new monopolies created.

These books are no more valuable than toilet paper.


Do you disbelieve in the Quran as well? Do you believe the Quran is also fictional?
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 04, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
What do you mean by belief, do you mean blind acceptance with total disregard for any evidence or logic refuting a held belief, or do you mean a belief based in provable truth?

The Qur'an in modern translation is worthless, hadith having been used to redefine the entire Arabic text, even a simple examination of the lexicons exposes this.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 04, 2018, 02:56:49 AM
Jesus is a fictional character, never existed, just like Moses, these fictions are created to control people, the old testament which until around a 1000 year ago was the old covenant, is a collection of fictional stories with zero physical evidence and quite a lot of contradictory physical evidence, the Jews never built the pyramids nor was they built by slaves.

The new testament was written jointly by, or with the guidance and instigation of, the two Emperors of the divided Roman Empire, the Vatican was reorganised and a religious hierarchy created, all other religions except Judaism and all medical centers in Europe and areas of Roman control were destroyed and a new monopolies created.

These books are no more valuable than toilet paper.

If you belief in the Quran, the Quran actually confirms those previous Scriptures.

There are more then enough theories about what is the Truth and what is Falsehood. So that's why we need a source, a trustworthy source to learn from. That's why i rather read the Bible and the Quran and try to learn Hebrew, Greek and Arabic. And that's why i rather do not discuss with people who don't even know those languages, but yet have an opinion.

It's like this, how credible is someone who doesn't even know English, but yet he wants to explain what the truth is behind the English language.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: hawk99 on January 04, 2018, 03:41:51 AM
I am not defending religious sectarian Jewish Pharisees, or ultra rich neo-zionist bankers that life with ribba. I am defending the children of Isaac and Jacob as an Arab and cousin of them.

Jesus was a Jew and the perfect 2nd Adam. He is the lord and king of mankind, and is a Jew.

I am just against that dumb political Palestinian vs Jews discussion. I am against people who act with hate, from both parties, if they are. I don't choose a side. I choose both to support, if they have a clean heart.

But i am not that type that is against Israel and Jerusalem. We have to know the history, and read the Previous Scriptures, to understand that also the Jews and Israelites have the right to own the land. If you can't kick a Palestinian from their land, then why can you kick an Israeli from theirs?

And to be honest, the whole dome of the rock should be removed from the place where the Temple stood. It's just a silly move that is all about politics and power. Imagine if some sectarian Jews started building a synagoge at the exact same spot where the Kaaba today is (if it were to be destroyed by time)..

May God bless you for sharing the Injeel.

I think those verses refer to sectarian Jews, the Pharisees, which i think nowadays are those who wear those black clothes etc. they can be compared to salafis, they are the exact same type of people. It won't be a suprise if the people who hijacked the Arabs worked together with those Pharisees to invent those ahadiths.


Again, they are not the children on Issac and Jacob!


                                                     :hmm
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 04, 2018, 05:44:25 AM
The Qur'an is corrupted through translation, hadith was invented between 200 and 400 years after the Qur'an was created, and through hadith the language was reshaped, (but I'm sure truth has no value, only religion to a god worshiper, I say this as I have tried many times to explain many things to the religious and 100% of the time they are completely shut off from all reality), certain elements of the Qur'an have remained such as "There is no God." intact, while other words have been corrupted with several different meanings to conform to hadith dogma and the invented religion of Islam, which has replaced the original non-religious Islam.

There is no God is the very foundation of the original Islam which removed worship, superstitions, hierarchical structures of control and established alternatives that functioned free of corruption and free of riba, which almost no one now has been exposed to.

What does exist is far more than the nonsensical god concept taken from the Sun which was worshiped in the heavens, but most god bother'ers don't care about evidence, reason, or truth, they want fantasy and not to think, just to follow ritual, be pious (hypocritical) and to worship, worship, worship!
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: burhan on January 05, 2018, 03:30:51 AM

We are living the prophecy of Sura 17 where the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth and be gathered from every place. It is an amazing to witness a prophecy come true in-front of our eyes.

The prophecy ends with Israel's destruction and the Temple being retaken, so I would not worry about the trivial details in-between.


This is an appalling thing to say Layth.  The rabid desire to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people because of their country of origin or religion is a sickness.

I thought you had broken free from religious fanaticism.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 05, 2018, 06:02:14 AM
The Qur'an is corrupted through translation, hadith was invented between 200 and 400 years after the Qur'an was created, and through hadith the language was reshaped, (but I'm sure truth has no value, only religion to a god worshiper, I say this as I have tried many times to explain many things to the religious and 100% of the time they are completely shut off from all reality), certain elements of the Qur'an have remained such as "There is no God." intact, while other words have been corrupted with several different meanings to conform to hadith dogma and the invented religion of Islam, which has replaced the original non-religious Islam.

There is no God is the very foundation of the original Islam which removed worship, superstitions, hierarchical structures of control and established alternatives that functioned free of corruption and free of riba, which almost no one now has been exposed to.

What does exist is far more than the nonsensical god concept taken from the Sun which was worshiped in the heavens, but most god bother'ers don't care about evidence, reason, or truth, they want fantasy and not to think, just to follow ritual, be pious (hypocritical) and to worship, worship, worship!

But we have to finish the sentence, there is no god, but God. We worship God, the Quran told us that that was the purpose of us being created. We can't deny that there is a God, and that we worship Him. But we have to search for the correct way and understanding of those faiths and works. Lets focus on our own ways, instead of on those of others.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 05, 2018, 09:57:55 AM
As I said previously the translations of the Qur'an are very corrupted, Allah does not mean 'The God'.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 05, 2018, 10:04:02 AM
As I said previously the translations of the Qur'an are very corrupted, Allah does not mean 'The God'.

I agree, most translations or if not all, are corrupted or not perfect.

What do you mean, Allah does not me the God? Which dictionary do you use?
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Zulf on January 05, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
There is no God is the very foundation of the original Islam which removed worship, superstitions, hierarchical structures of control and established alternatives that functioned free of corruption and free of riba, which almost no one now has been exposed to.
If 'there is no God', then is there a Creator (of course not a person in the skies)? Is there a Rabb who is sustaining Creation each instant?
What's your take on this?

Quote
What does exist is far more than the nonsensical god concept taken from the Sun which was worshiped in the heavens, but most god bother'ers don't care about evidence, reason, or truth, they want fantasy and not to think, just to follow ritual, be pious (hypocritical) and to worship, worship, worship!

Agreed.
We know what we know. The rest we don't know. That which we don't know, most people believe. It's better to just not know.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 05, 2018, 11:29:46 PM
Peace Zulf,

Imagine a infinite pure consciousness pouring from nothingness endlessly, within a singular, infinitely repeating, spinning moment, without any substance, no material existence of any kind, no quantity of space or energy; not an entity because only the consciousness exists, and to be an entity would require something other, something distinct from something else, so consciousness is always an ?entirety?.

The only product of this single consciousness of potential is thought, manifesting infinite perceptual realities, so vast, so dense in thought, so magnificent we cannot begin to conceive such wonders at our present lower fractal states. But the totality would not fully experience the infinite thoughts intimately without its fractal nature.

Fractal consciousness allows each fractal, free will, they can evolve from new state to new higher fractal state, and have the same attributes, the same aspects as the entirety of consciousness, because they are the entirety, being an infinite drop within the infinite ocean of consciousness, indivisible, so cannot be distinct, always only the one consciousness can exist, the fractal is the undivided, an integral fractal form, building the substantive structures.

What each fractal form develops becomes the most abundant within their individual expression of consciousness; they can build imagination or neglect it. We as fractals of consciousness are here to experience, and through our experiences, the totality of the ocean of consciousness experiences, shares, interacts and is synchronous to our actions; we are created for adventure, for the expression of love and joy, because there is no ?other? of consequence, to hate, to abuse, to exploit, we are ?one? infinitely expressed. We?re one mind as dichotomic thought both as one in nothingness of inner contemplation, and as one in shared thought of external perception.

This means no God could ever exist, it is impossible, you cannot worship or pray or indulge in rituals of any benefit at all in fact these are all detrimental to growth.

Peace owlwithbow,

I have pasted Badar Kanwar's work on the term "Allah":

We are lead through, with a careful linguistic analysis, to a conclusion that the word from Al-Qu'ran  اللَّهِ   is not the proper noun.  To understanding any word one needs to analyze the spelling of a given word.  Since Quran has been initially an oral tradition one needs to pay attention to phonology of word, in addition to its written spelling.  If we do this with word Allah.  It actually stands for allathe الذي = who, La لا = not and finally, alahun  ألْهٌ.  This would mean ?One who is not alahun?.


If one were to incorporate the real meanings of the word ?alahun? into the translation; this word, which actually is a sentence would mean ?One who doesn?t engage in worship?.

This sounds so radically different. Who am I to say this?  What are my credentials?

Why should we trust this non-sense?


These are all defensive of held belief, so valid and legitimate questions.

 
Let us instead of worrying about the credentials of the informer of this information; just explore the language of the Qur'an that is presented from the Qur'an itself.

 

First of all let us analyze what traditionalists interpret this word to be?



And why they are wrong?

 

The word is thought to be a combination of a definite article Al ال = in English ?The? and illaha إلاه, meaning ?God? but in reality ?a deity for adoration and worship?.

 

Although, in actuality this "Al" here is a contraction of the word الذي   and legitimately could be written as "Al"  ال.  Can we trust this assertion despite clear references from the Lexicon of Lane 1 and Grammar of William Wright 2.

 

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for more evidence.  In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word beginning with a definite article ?Al?  ال. Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition.   Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

 

1.     2:1  لِّلْمُتَّقِيْنَ  Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.



2..     4:7 and 4:32,  لِّلرِّجَالِ   is the word same concept.

 
However, for the word اللَّهِ  when the same preposition is added.  We find that the ?Lam? of the supposed definite article ?Al? also disappears. However, following the examples above it should have been written as لِلْاله  (in reality one cannot type this so called word using an Arabic type writer).


Example,  1:2 لِلَّهِ  and 115 more places 2:22, 2:98 and on and on, in total 116 occurrences.

Whereas, allathe being a different word its whole contraction disappears.  This also proves that this word by no means is a proper name as there is no definite article "Al". As if there would have been an "Al", it should look like this in script  ألإلاه and not اللَّهِ

Furthermore, although both Lane and Wright cite the contraction of  الذي  as ال. Can we find an example in the current translation of Quran for such a contraction?   Of course, we can, not one time, but multiple times.

6:77   فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لَأَكُونَنَّ مِنَ
الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ   
Yousuf Ali: When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."

7:99   أَفَأَمِنُواْ مَكْرَ اللّهِ فَلاَ يَأْمَنُ مَكْرَ اللّهِ إِلاَّ
الْقَوْمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ

Yousuf Ali: Did they then feel secure against the plan of Allah?- but no one can feel secure from the Plan of Allah, except those (doomed) to ruin!

Other examples are at 62 different places, 5:26, 25, 5:67.  Any place word الْقَوْمُ   is used, it is at most places translated in meaning of "allathe".

Badar Kanwar, [30.11.17 22:33]
Let us, continue to analyses this word further.  In the middle there is "alif" like mark (highlighted in red) with a Shadda mark and another alif above. اللَّه (In newer, print version the "alif" above Shadda is taken a fathah shape instead of 'alif" like in this example as well.  The ?alif? above Shadda, is called a ?dagger alif? and is written over many other words instead being included in these words in the text of Quran.  Since here it is written over Shadda, implying there are two ?alifs?.

 

Shadda has several uses in script.  We will only discuss the relevant ones here.  One use is to indicate the doubling of a consonant.  It is also used to indicate such a doubling only to facilitate pronunciation in the ?Sun letters of the Arabic alphabets?.  This would be a apparently plausible defensive case for the traditionalist.

Let us analysis why it is wrong.  If it were to be correctly understood, then there would be no reason to keep this Shadda in place once the ?Al?, if it were really ?Al? of definite article.  As in the phrase is gone اللَّهِ, as in the example above of لِلَّهِ.  However, we find in the Qur'an that this is not the case.  Hence, this Shadda is not due to ?Al? of a definite article coming before the اله word to make it a proper noun, but contraction of allathe.  Although, even if it were to be the case, as illah has already ?alif? at the start which is not considered a ?Sun letter?.  Hence no Shadda would be have been added as cited above.

Let us, further show in Arabic script, how this concept could be explained?  First, all three words are  written separately, then allathe written as contracted and finally first to ?lams? and subsequent ?alif? combined,  due use of Shadda, to make Allah.

ألذَّي لا ألْهٌ   
ال لا ألْهٌ =  اللَّه


This clearly, further shows that the persistence of this Shadda is due, not to the Shadda of ?Al?; but in reality it indicates a real doubling of the consonants.

 

This means inescapably, that one was to follow the order of pronunciation of, this word.  It actually is a sequence of words, a phrase, not just a word.  Allathe (written as a contraction in script as "Al"), La and alahun.  This would further imply that the middle Shadda is suggesting ?two lams? and two alifs?.

 

Hence, if translated word for word, this word or more accurately sentence would mean ?One who doesn?t engage in worship?.

1.   Lexicon of Arabic Language; Edward W Lane; 1968, Vol. 1, page 74.
2.   A Grammar of the Arabic Language; William Wright. Revised 3RD Edition, Dover Edition 2005:  Vol. 1 page 269 D.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: عوني on January 06, 2018, 02:05:24 AM
peace ,

BOLD u reallly made me happy saying thanks in urdu here you go free hug  :group:

yeh brother i m afraid he will become the reason of big war if it take place in near future(God knows best)

he started his sickness by banning 7 islamic countries
he continue to provoke north korea ( and try to play politics to finish common enemy china and japan through korea or whatever)
he support saudia and continue spreading TRANSGRESSION between a historical rivaly between sunni vs shia i.e saudia vs iran
he also taking piss with russia indirectly ( and russina never forget the cold war ) i think its time for them to take revenge from america..

its true that nations never forget their defeat and the islamic so called caliphate in the shape "saltant e usmania" in the shape of turkey  will give us more surprises in near future as they already played their role in both world wars

God bless humanity


:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.

I agree with you on Trump. The Muslim world needs someone that will stand up against Trump. I found it very shameful when I read that Saudi-Arabia gave Trump millions dollars worth of gifts but it's not suprising since the Saudi regime and Trump are very good friends and share similarities and Trump helps them get away with their war crimes in Yemen.

I was watching the stream when the countries were voting in the UN and it was really disturbing listening to the American ambassador (Nikki Haley) and the Israeli ambassador since they both appeared like total hypocrites, although sadly no one called them out on it but it looked like everyone wanted to just sleep whenever they were talking. The Israeli ambassador only kept bashing Palestinians in the UN and showing off an old coin thinking it was a really good argument. But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.


Peace,

before Trump was the puppet face of the corporation united States of America, he was in bed with the Khazarian mafia, this organisation is a global Ashkenazi network that in many ways controls the planet, these soulless (jinn) have caused no end of horror, suffering, misery and death, they should be hunted to extinction, and if they tell the stinking Trump and his den of soulless minions to do something, it is done.

I disagree with this post and it seems to be a conspiracy theory. The truth about the Ashkenazi Jews is that some Ashkenazi Jews do belong in that land yes but it's really irrelevant if they did anyway. It doesn't matter where you originate from. The reason why Trump supports Israel could have to do with a lot of reasons but I don't think that it's because he is in bed with the "Khazarian mafia". One of the reasons could be because his daughter is in a relationship with a pro-Israel Jew (which is why she converted to Judaism) that might influence his decision as a father in politics. Another reason is that Israel has traditionally been an ally of the US while most of its neighbours became friends with the Soviet and since he's pretty much an American nationalist (and a warmongerer) he will support Israel. He also hates Muslims as proven by his actions towards the Muslim countries and his ban that targets Muslim countries only.   



Hitler tried to but instead of helping him the allied nations waged war against him. He left many alive and look at the result....


I disagree with you here Hp_Tech. This is not a nice thing to post either and you know this too. I believe that the Jewish victims during WW2 deserve every bit of respect. I'm very proud of the Muslims who saved Jews and other victims of Nazi savagery during WW2. The truth about Hitler was that he was a warmongering brutal dictator. He murdered millions of Jews (not only Jews even other people like gypsies, disabled, etc) and that makes him sick in the head. He deserved what was coming to him. Reading about the warcrimes committed by the Nazis during WW2 makes me sick and lose hope in humanity. It's very sad to read that something like that ever happened and so is any other tragic event. One important thing to note is that many holocaust survivors and Jews in the US also became pro-Palestinian in the end due to empathy, that includes people like Hedy Epstein who died 2 years ago due to cancer, her website is here incase you want to visit it http://www.hedyepstein.com/ (http://www.hedyepstein.com/). Even Einstein for example seemed to have become critical of Israel in the end, often theorized by his rejection to the request of becoming the president of Israel although he did consider himself a Zionist but he was pretty special compared to other Zionists as these other Zionists would often stage terrorist attacks against Arabs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence) but the reason why he was special was because he would support a state for the Jews as long as it didin't happen through violence and would rather see an agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than a Jewish state which does contradict Zionism in a way. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people in Israel don't care about Jewish victims either (especially those who Immigrated to Israel from countries outside Europe) since they've used similar words to what Nazis and other right-wingers would use whenever they want to insult Arabs. I remember seeing a screenshot from a video of were a man in Israel said that Israel should do to the Palestinians what Hitler did to the Jews which is pretty obvious that this person doesn't care about the Jews either otherwise he wouldn't be saying that. The prime minister of Israel also claimed one time that Hitler didin't want to exterminate the Jews which is false and which was considered an insult to the holocaust victims https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525 - "Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews" Also Israel has a history of supporting far right European political parties that have their origin in both Facism and Nazism because of its desperate hatred towards Muslims since Muslims are more likely to support Palestine.


An interesting quote by Einstein:

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain?especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state"




I agree, since the Jews are sadly being mocked by some Arabs. The point that we Arabs shouldn't forget is that Jerusalem was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years. King Solomon build the Great Temple there, the Messiah Jesus walked there and many other prophets that were sent by God.

We have to accept that Jews and Israelis have one of the biggest positions since Jesus was a Jew and is king and lord in the eternal paradise that is to come. We should life together and help each other instead of listening blindly to evil politicians who fuel their belly with fire and worship Satan.

Imagine what kind of super power the Arabs and Jews will become in the middle east if they start working together and act like brothers of each other since they actually are both cousins from each other and sons of Abraham their father.

Well tbh I'm tired of writing a response everytime I see posts like this. No they aren't being 'mocked' by Arabs. So what if Jews inhabited the land for thousands of years? Who cares really? Fact still remains that there were Palestinian Arabs living on that land that aren't allowed to return to their own homes today and that there were Arabs who were expelled from their own homes and the Arab population was ethnic-cleansed. Did you know that prior to the existance of Israel, Arabs used to be a majority in the land (in all cities) and they also owned a lot more homes than the Jews ever did?

Arabs don't need Israel to become super power, they need better politicians that make the right decisions. Countries like the UAE or Qatar are doing quite fine without Israel already and if they started to implement things such as freedom of expression or secularism for example they would improve a lot more. Any Arab politician that would have done this though would have been overthrown in military coups supported by the US and the European countries since an Arab country becoming a superpower is considered a threat to both Israel and the US. Just notice how the US is trying really hard in causing instability in countries that are enemies to Israel (even in non-Arab countries like Iran and Pakistan), coincidence? No. One can argue that Israel is partly responsible for what's happening in Syria too (were hundreds of thousands have died) and in these other countries.

Countries like Nauru is a great example of a country that has great relations with Israel and it isn't doing very well either so really relations with Israel seems to be completely irrelevant. The Arab countries becoming friends with Israel won't really change anything, it will just let Israel get away with its crimes while the US is causing instability in countries like Iran. So in conclusion the relations with Israel has like zero correlation really, it's when the Arab countries get better politicians that want to reform through secular and humanitarian values that the Arab countries will improve a lot. Problem is that the leaders who often take power are too incompetent to rule.

Let's not forget that Israel sells tons of weapons to the Burma regime which the regime uses to kill Rohingya Muslims (and non-Muslims) with and Israel also sells to India (under Modi) weapons that the regime uses to oppress Kashmiris who want an independant state. It's not easy to get over this fact.



It is not a question of muslims or christians or jews it is a question of imperialism and colonilism and sntching counrties by the law of raw weapon power. According to intenrational law there is not anything complicated in it. To make it into a religoous question is to look for excuses for the greatest scam, hypocrisy and overrumpling of international law.

?Long live a unified Palestine!

And may God shorten the suffering of tthe occupied and slow motion genocided population of Palestine.

Totally agreed. :handshake:


This is an appalling thing to say Layth.  The rabid desire to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people because of their country of origin or religion is a sickness.

I thought you had broken free from religious fanaticism.


I don't see where he has a 'rabid desire' to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people. It looks a lot like you made that assumption. The first verse talks about how the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth although keep in mind that I believe this has already happened at one point and then another talks about the destruction of the nation Israel which has also happened. It doesn't mention anything about any people getting killed. In my opinion the destruction of Israel would have indeed been an amazing thing to see since it would have been a slap on the face on a bully (and karma) but that doesn't imply that I'd want to see people living in the country getting killed. Israel is pretty much the oppressor in the region.



Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: imrankhawaja on January 06, 2018, 02:55:01 AM

:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.


But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.

   

peace brother, :handshake:
urdu borrowed lot of words from arabic and even the style of writing is similar with arabic .. and i love arabian food a lot specially here in uk i tried different arabian foods and honestly i enjoy arabian food more than asian food..

i love every muslim nation and every peacemaking nation reside on the planet  of earth ..its so lovely to see that you evolved yourself, because a common person in pakistan have no knowledge of worldly politics as they are struggling lot of things due to the corruption of our systematic politics going on there for decades , they still suffering from electricity,gas,sewage and lot other things .. but even after knowing that a common person of pakistan never accepted israel and their sympathies are always with the people of palestine.. and same thing is happening in kashmir ..

recently TRUMP accuse pakistan of getting billions in the name of lies..  :rotfl: :rotfl:
i know its happened due to the reason of not accepting his decision ..

he forget to add , america used pakistan for their own sake and due to all of this war the pressure of afghani immigrants beared by pakistan , roughly 3.5 million afghani moves to pakistan since 2001 ..

and he said its time to stop aid for pakistan.. (how funny this joker is)

we are always against terrorism and what terrorist do even a terrorist belong to any muslim group we will fight with him and put him on trial for his crimes
 
but why people dnt see what america did in iraq and afghanistan is also a act of terrorism. millions of people are homeless, thousands of them died who have no link with so called terrorist activities... (from their lens america is the greator terrorist) losing home and beloved is not a good experience

osama died officially so what are they doing there?  there are lot of questions now asking who really is a terrorist ?

Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on January 06, 2018, 03:07:39 AM
The reading of the Qur'an as fables or myths in the style of the Bible is a curse on its teachings. "Bani Isra'il" is an instance of that kind of childish mentality

There is a sura of the Qur'an called Al Isra'.

'ill is also an Arabic term usually translated in the Qur'an as kinship or pact of kinship
    
Chapter (9) sūrat l-tawbah (The Repentance)
 (9:8)

Sahih International: How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

Verse (9:10)


Sahih International: They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.


Dictionnaries give as basic meaning of root seen-ra-ya:

to travel by night, to set out, depart by night...

This is mentionned in the Qur'an at least in two cases, that of Lut with his followers and that of Musa and his followers. In both cases we might say that those people are bani isra'il, those who set out at night.

The whole sura Al Isra' is about that, set out at night.

In fact, in most, if not all, spiritual development of peoples all over the world there is the description of the travelling of the faithful from darkness into the light. So really, this turning of the teachings of spiritual reality contained in the Qur'an into plump genetical or genealogical inductions, are indeed degenerate caricatures of what is basically a depiction of righteousness and spiritual aspirations of human kind. The Qur'an is very clear repeatedly saying that in the lenneages there are good and bad apples, in grouping people on their moral traits (salihin, mu'minin, etc. or kfirin, fasiqin, etc.) and not on their genetical identity, so this tainting of the Qur'an with something alien to it is a source of corruption of its teachings.

God is not a real state trader, but our Rabb and Creator, of all of us. And to claim a land for some obscure trading between a real state God and some priviledged people is filth.

God laws, inscribed in human fikra with the concept of justice and equity, do not give more rights or privilege to some persons over others. Therefore the "problems" of the "Holy Land" are nto such problems but instances of corruption and abuse on the part of the powerful empire of today, the successor of the British Empire which arranged the desruction of the Middle East of which Palestine is a piece, a very fundamental piece. Jews are used as cannon fodder (priviledged cannon fodder, but still cannon fodder) and escape goats of what is in itself another edition of the same imperial disease well known over the millennia. It is very useful to deturn anger against the trampling of the Palestinian people against the "Jews" rather than against the real author of the whole plot, who on the other hand is a master of disguise, of perpetrating the harm while lamenting it after and showing the "best will" for the stage. Teh state of Israel is an illegal, sick state, whose existence was brought in order to destroy all that surrounds it. Not to do a favour to "Jews", but to use "Jews to do the job of the unscrupolous morally rotten imperials.

God and "God's people" are nowhere int he picture and we all are God's people when we choose to travel from darness to light, and are not God's people when we choose to remain in darkness and prefer colourful lies to plain truth and believe ourselves to be over others and above duty to equity, justice and mercy.

So the prophecies of the Qur'an regarding "bani isra'il" are always true if we bear in mind what "bani isra'il" really means. When we betray our journey, we will suffer the consequences. There is not doubt that the present state of Israel
will be destroyed by its own poison and all precedents will be right, not on a genetical basis but on the very simple moral basis.

May God shorten the suffering of the Palestinian people and may so many "Jews" misled by their shaytanic handlers choose the isra' instead of remaining in the darkness of believeing that they are gods to other lesser ones.

Salaam 
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 06, 2018, 03:36:55 AM

:handshake: True.

I find Urdu to be an awesome language that has a lot in common with Arabic. 8) I do know some words and I'm going to learn more of the language in the future. I find Pakistan to be a very interesting and beautiful country too and I'd like to visit it one day, I loved its response in the UN regarding Jerusalem too. Despite the cowardly US empty threats against Pakistan, Pakistan will always support the Palestinians. In my old posts I've been very ignorant about Pakistan and the other South-Asian countries and their people and it was wrong on so many levels and shameful. Pakistan is an amazing country and Desi culture is very interesting and lovely. What Palestinians go through everyday is what Kashmiris go through and the struggle is very similar if not the same.

I agree with you on Trump. The Muslim world needs someone that will stand up against Trump. I found it very shameful when I read that Saudi-Arabia gave Trump millions dollars worth of gifts but it's not suprising since the Saudi regime and Trump are very good friends and share similarities and Trump helps them get away with their war crimes in Yemen.

I was watching the stream when the countries were voting in the UN and it was really disturbing listening to the American ambassador (Nikki Haley) and the Israeli ambassador since they both appeared like total hypocrites, although sadly no one called them out on it but it looked like everyone wanted to just sleep whenever they were talking. The Israeli ambassador only kept bashing Palestinians in the UN and showing off an old coin thinking it was a really good argument. But the funny thing is despite the US empty threats of cutting aid-money, most countries still opposed the US decision on Jerusalem.


I disagree with this post and it seems to be a conspiracy theory. The truth about the Ashkenazi Jews is that some Ashkenazi Jews do belong in that land yes but it's really irrelevant if they did anyway. It doesn't matter where you originate from. The reason why Trump supports Israel could have to do with a lot of reasons but I don't think that it's because he is in bed with the "Khazarian mafia". One of the reasons could be because his daughter is in a relationship with a pro-Israel Jew (which is why she converted to Judaism) that might influence his decision as a father in politics. Another reason is that Israel has traditionally been an ally of the US while most of its neighbours became friends with the Soviet and since he's pretty much an American nationalist (and a warmongerer) he will support Israel. He also hates Muslims as proven by his actions towards the Muslim countries and his ban that targets Muslim countries only.   




I disagree with you here Hp_Tech. This is not a nice thing to post either and you know this too. I believe that the Jewish victims during WW2 deserve every bit of respect. I'm very proud of the Muslims who saved Jews and other victims of Nazi savagery during WW2. The truth about Hitler was that he was a warmongering brutal dictator. He murdered millions of Jews (not only Jews even other people like gypsies, disabled, etc) and that makes him sick in the head. He deserved what was coming to him. Reading about the warcrimes committed by the Nazis during WW2 makes me sick and lose hope in humanity. It's very sad to read that something like that ever happened and so is any other tragic event. One important thing to note is that many holocaust survivors and Jews in the US also became pro-Palestinian in the end due to empathy, that includes people like Hedy Epstein who died 2 years ago due to cancer, her website is here incase you want to visit it http://www.hedyepstein.com/ (http://www.hedyepstein.com/). Even Einstein for example seemed to have become critical of Israel in the end, often theorized by his rejection to the request of becoming the president of Israel although he did consider himself a Zionist but he was pretty special compared to other Zionists as these other Zionists would often stage terrorist attacks against Arabs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence) but the reason why he was special was because he would support a state for the Jews as long as it didin't happen through violence and would rather see an agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than a Jewish state which does contradict Zionism in a way. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people in Israel don't care about Jewish victims either (especially those who Immigrated to Israel from countries outside Europe) since they've used similar words to what Nazis and other right-wingers would use whenever they want to insult Arabs. I remember seeing a screenshot from a video of were a man in Israel said that Israel should do to the Palestinians what Hitler did to the Jews which is pretty obvious that this person doesn't care about the Jews either otherwise he wouldn't be saying that. The prime minister of Israel also claimed one time that Hitler didin't want to exterminate the Jews which is false and which was considered an insult to the holocaust victims https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525 - "Netanyahu: Hitler Didn't Want to Exterminate the Jews" Also Israel has a history of supporting far right European political parties that have their origin in both Facism and Nazism because of its desperate hatred towards Muslims since Muslims are more likely to support Palestine.


An interesting quote by Einstein:

"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain?especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state"




Well tbh I'm tired of writing a response everytime I see posts like this. No they aren't being 'mocked' by Arabs. So what if Jews inhabited the land for thousands of years? Who cares really? Fact still remains that there were Palestinian Arabs living on that land that aren't allowed to return to their own homes today and that there were Arabs who were expelled from their own homes and the Arab population was ethnic-cleansed. Did you know that prior to the existance of Israel, Arabs used to be a majority in the land (in all cities) and they also owned a lot more homes than the Jews ever did?

Arabs don't need Israel to become super power, they need better politicians that make the right decisions. Countries like the UAE or Qatar are doing quite fine without Israel already and if they started to implement things such as freedom of expression or secularism for example they would improve a lot more. Any Arab politician that would have done this though would have been overthrown in military coups supported by the US and the European countries since an Arab country becoming a superpower is considered a threat to both Israel and the US. Just notice how the US is trying really hard in causing instability in countries that are enemies to Israel (even in non-Arab countries like Iran and Pakistan), coincidence? No. One can argue that Israel is partly responsible for what's happening in Syria too (were hundreds of thousands have died) and in these other countries.

Countries like Nauru is a great example of a country that has great relations with Israel and it isn't doing very well either so really relations with Israel seems to be completely irrelevant. The Arab countries becoming friends with Israel won't really change anything, it will just let Israel get away with its crimes while the US is causing instability in countries like Iran. So in conclusion the relations with Israel has like zero correlation really, it's when the Arab countries get better politicians that want to reform through secular and humanitarian values that the Arab countries will improve a lot. Problem is that the leaders who often take power are too incompetent to rule.

Let's not forget that Israel sells tons of weapons to the Burma regime which the regime uses to kill Rohingya Muslims (and non-Muslims) with and Israel also sells to India (under Modi) weapons that the regime uses to oppress Kashmiris who want an independant state. It's not easy to get over this fact.



Totally agreed. :handshake:



I don't see where he has a 'rabid desire' to see collective punishment and demonization of an entire people. It looks a lot like you made that assumption. The first verse talks about how the Children of Israel will commit great corruption on earth although keep in mind that I believe this has already happened at one point and then another talks about the destruction of the nation Israel which has also happened. It doesn't mention anything about any people getting killed. In my opinion the destruction of Israel would have indeed been an amazing thing to see since it would have been a slap on the face on a bully (and karma) but that doesn't imply that I'd want to see people living in the country getting killed. Israel is pretty much the oppressor in the region.


You use arguments like Israel sold wapeons to Burma etc., but what about Saudi Arabia bombing in Yemen?

My point: There is not a perfect government, both Israel and Saudi Arabia have things to improve on. All i want to achieve is peace between Israeli citizens and Saudi citizens. If we can't even life in peace with each other here on earth, then how can we life peacefully with each other in Heaven? What are you going to tell Abraham? I fueled the fire between your sons Isaac and Ishmael? What are you going to say to Isaac, i fought and killed your children? What are you going to say to Ishmael, i fought and killed your children? I just want to do about the standard Arab vs Israel rage, all i want to say is that they are cousins and that we shouldn't be fooled by some politicians and evil groups.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 07, 2018, 01:07:05 AM
Bani Israel is not a biological bloodline. This is a keyword for something else. Anyone can be from among the Children of Israel, if they're like them.

Have you read the previous Scriptures like the Tauwrat and the Zabur and the Injeel? They clearly state that Israel is human, and that Jacob is Israel and that God gave Jacob the name Israel after one night when he/Jacob was wrestling with an Angel.

Jacob had 12 children, those are called the children of Israel. A lot of prohpets and messengers came from that blood line. The Messih, Isa, is also from the bloodline of Israel, from Juda to be exactly.

That information can all be found in the Previous Scriptures. And i think the Quran is clear about this as well, you just have to read it from cover to cover a few times and stop listening to people and instead read it all for yourself.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on January 07, 2018, 02:34:44 AM
Bani Israel is not a biological bloodline. This is a keyword for something else. Anyone can be from among the Children of Israel, if they're like them.

Israa'il

Composed of Israa' and 'ill

Quote
There is a sura of the Qur'an called Al Isra'.

'ill is also an Arabic term usually translated in the Qur'an as kinship or pact of kinship
   
Chapter (9) sūrat l-tawbah (The Repentance)
 (9:8)

Sahih International: How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

Verse (9:10)


Sahih International: They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.


Dictionnaries give as basic meaning of root seen-ra-ya:

to travel by night, to set out, depart by night...

This is mentionned in the Qur'an at least in two cases, that of Lut with his followers and that of Musa and his followers. In both cases we might say that those people are bani isra'il, those who set out at night.

The whole sura Al Isra' is about that, set out at night.

In fact, in most, if not all, spiritual development of peoples all over the world there is the description of the travelling of the faithful from darkness into the light. So really, this turning of the teachings of spiritual reality contained in the Qur'an into plump genetical or genealogical inductions, are indeed degenerate caricatures of what is basically a depiction of righteousness and spiritual aspirations of human kind. The Qur'an is very clear repeatedly saying that in the lenneages there are good and bad apples, in grouping people on their moral traits (salihin, mu'minin, etc. or kfirin, fasiqin, etc.) and not on their genetical identity, so this tainting of the Qur'an with something alien to it is a source of corruption of its teachings.


Salaam
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Cerberus on January 07, 2018, 04:04:42 AM
Israa'il

Composed of Israa' and 'ill


Yisra' El, El being God, Triumphant with God in hebrew. Maybe it has more to do with the arabic word YSR than al-israa. YSR meaning "Made easy".
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 07, 2018, 09:10:51 AM
Yisra' El, El being God, Triumphant with God in hebrew. Maybe it has more to do with the arabic word YSR than al-israa. YSR meaning "Made easy".

Is yaa-sien-raa the correct root?
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: Abdun Nur on January 07, 2018, 10:04:04 AM
israeela إِسْرَائِيلَ  Israel - originally in Hebrew, "Yisrael".
Yisrael means, quite literally, "He has to contend in opposition, battle, or any conflict; compete with God? - based on which translation of "sra" was meant to be used.
"Yi", in the Hebrew, is the masculine form "he". "Sra", in the Hebrew, comes from the Semitic root "Sry", which means "to striven " The word "El," in the Hebrew, is a form of the word for God, (meaning in this context the creator). The holy trinity - IS-RA-EL. Isis, Ra & El. The Mother, the Father & EL, aka Saturn/Satan.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: HP_TECH on January 07, 2018, 03:49:57 PM
(http://memeshappen.com/download.php?memeid=46918)
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: owlwithbow on January 08, 2018, 12:37:08 AM
israeela إِسْرَائِيلَ  Israel - originally in Hebrew, "Yisrael".
Yisrael means, quite literally, "He has to contend in opposition, battle, or any conflict; compete with God? - based on which translation of "sra" was meant to be used.
"Yi", in the Hebrew, is the masculine form "he". "Sra", in the Hebrew, comes from the Semitic root "Sry", which means "to striven " The word "El," in the Hebrew, is a form of the word for God, (meaning in this context the creator). The holy trinity - IS-RA-EL. Isis, Ra & El. The Mother, the Father & EL, aka Saturn/Satan.

Wtf, you should have not posted that evil conspiracy theory, and weird trinity speculation. May God guide you.
Title: Re: Jerusalem
Post by: huruf on January 08, 2018, 01:11:26 AM
Yisra' El, El being God, Triumphant with God in hebrew. Maybe it has more to do with the arabic word YSR than al-israa. YSR meaning "Made easy".

No, it is not that root. It is root sin-ra-ya, israa' is the masdar of the verb form IV, just like islaam, which is the masdar of form IV of the verb aslama, or ihsaan. The verb and other verbs of the same root appear repeatedly in the Qur'an

No al in israa?'l, since it is a construct of the two words and in no need of an article to be determined. 

Here instances of the verb in the Qur'an:

Verb (form IV) - to travel, to take
(11:81:9) fa-asri   So travel   فَأَسْرِ بِأَهْلِكَ بِقِطْعٍ مِنَ اللَّيْلِ وَلَا يَلْتَفِتْ مِنْكُمْ أَحَدٌ
(15:65:1) fa-asri   So travel   فَأَسْرِ بِأَهْلِكَ بِقِطْعٍ مِنَ اللَّيْلِ وَاتَّبِعْ أَدْبَارَهُمْ
(17:1:3) asrā   took   سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى
(20:77:6) asri   Travel by night   وَلَقَدْ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ مُوسَىٰ أَنْ أَسْرِ بِعِبَادِي
(26:52:5) asri   Travel by night   وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ مُوسَىٰ أَنْ أَسْرِ بِعِبَادِي إِنَّكُمْ مُتَّبَعُونَ
(44:23:1) fa-asri   Then "Set out   فَأَسْرِ بِعِبَادِي لَيْلًا إِنَّكُمْ مُتَّبَعُونَ


Salaam