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General Issues / Questions => Questions/Comments on the Quran => Topic started by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 04, 2017, 04:32:35 PM

Title: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 04, 2017, 04:32:35 PM
Bismillah

As you probably know there's surah called Spider ('ankeboot) and its name comes from 29:41. Translators and commentators (including FM translation) translating word "beyt" as house or home.

By following their translations/understandings one can conclude that spider's web is very weak. But, you can read/hear that spider's web is very strong and elastic, even stronger then steel, as scientific priests claim. I haven't tested it, but if somebody wants they can. Please, share results if you do so.

We can find many homes in nature. I'll leave it to you to find all strange homes...

Total misunderstanding comes from using lexicons and dictionaries of non-Muslims and their followers. Word "beyt" is one of best examples. Wherever it was understood as "home, house" people made some religion based on their (mis)understanding.

I hope that this example will be clear proof, even for those who're near to be totally blind.

The real (haqq) meaning of this word is "family" and this ayet is talking that weakest of families is spider's. Why?

Because most of spiders are eaten after or during sexual intercourse, trying to "take" a family.
(note: FM translation for اتَّخَذُوا is "take" and for the same word in the same ayet اتَّخَذَتْ is "makes")

Please check all ayets with word "beyt" in any form and think about them. I hope Allah swt will explain to us a lot in them.

Allah swt knows best.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Gahaiile on February 04, 2017, 05:23:01 PM
I'd like to see your evidences. Peace.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 04:04:33 AM
For what? I said many things in that text.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Wakas on February 05, 2017, 04:22:34 AM
The more accurate translation can be found here:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602147.msg274246#msg274246
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 05:42:03 AM
The more accurate translation can be found here:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602147.msg274246#msg274246
Your problem is that spider's house is not weak at all, and not weakest.

You started very good in that post, noticing that "to take" is related to "mesjid". Keep on working, I hope Allah swt will explain reality (haqq) to you and He'll help you to accept it and to follow it.

Beyt is not a house, it's a family.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 05, 2017, 06:31:52 AM
Bismillah

As you probably know there's surah called Spider ('ankeboot) and its name comes from 29:41. Translators and commentators (including FM translation) translating word "beyt" as house or home.

By following their translations/understandings one can conclude that spider's web is very weak. But, you can read/hear that spider's web is very strong and elastic, even stronger then steel, as scientific priests claim. I haven't tested it, but if somebody wants they can. Please, share results if you do so.

We can find many homes in nature. I'll leave it to you to find all strange homes...

Total misunderstanding comes from using lexicons and dictionaries of non-Muslims and their followers. Word "beyt" is one of best examples. Wherever it was understood as "home, house" people made some religion based on their (mis)understanding.
RED: And how exactly did you conclude that ankeboot = spider?
Please don't tell me you were using lexicons and dictionaries.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
Allah swt told me so. I thought that it is not spider, but it was my opinion.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Wakas on February 05, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
Your problem is that spider's house is not weak at all, and not weakest.

Please cite your evidence, or shall we take this as another one of your opinions?

Note, in my interpretation I do not refer to the web as the spider's house.

Once you cite your evidence and explain why this is a problem for my interpretation, we will see if you require reality to be explained to you.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 12:26:43 PM
Note, in my interpretation I do not refer to the web as the spider's house.
Please, make my day and explain: what is spider's house if it is not web?

I have no evidences then the Qur'an and the reality in us and around us. I cannot bring something you cannot come close to w/o me.

You haven't noticed for years that FM translation is totally wrong, because same word is translated different for years, but you didn't want and you still don't want to admit that you were wrong too. What's bad in being blessed and notice our errs?

I was watching video about Trump and the Bible... he told that he never asked for forgiveness. But, Trump is a puppet, people here should be ones who're seeking for the reality and its explanation. So, what is wrong if I write something now and then Allah swt opens my eyes for that after a few minutes or years?

If you search only my inputs here you'll most certenally find that I used "House" for "beyt", maybe a few days ago. But, should I be affraid if I see that I was wrong or should I ask for forgiveness and tell it to everybody: I, Aladin, Allah's slave, made a mistake and I'm really sorry for my jehl, it wasn't my intention to lie. I seek a refuge at Him from Sheytan, Expelled, and I seek a forgiveness from Allah. It's not hard and maybe He'll forgive me. Is it better or being stubborn?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Wakas on February 05, 2017, 03:44:29 PM
Please, make my day and explain: what is spider's house if it is not web?

If you bothered to carefully read the link I gave, you will find I explicitly mention what is the spider's house.

Quote
I, Aladin, Allah's slave, made a mistake....


Perhaps if you read more carefully you will make less mistakes.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 04:25:30 PM
If you bothered to carefully read the link I gave, you will find I explicitly mention what is the spider's house.

Perhaps if you read more carefully you will make less mistakes.
Even your behaviour is not dear to me, I'll start with "dear brother"...

Dear brother,

It's not important at all what me and you think, know, heard, told...
If you're satisfied that Ibrahim a.s., Isma'il a.s., Moosa a.s. and Haroon a.s. were house-builders and house-cleaners, then it's ok with me. If you're not you could check what you understood.

If you can't answer my question and you're telling me to search for it, then it's better to keep it unanswered.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 05, 2017, 04:40:10 PM
Allah swt told me so. I thought that it is not spider, but it was my opinion.
In that case, Allah told me ankeboot is NOT a spider.
So we have a problem now I think.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: imrankhawaja on February 05, 2017, 05:19:14 PM
By following their translations/understandings one can conclude that spider's web is very weak. But, you can read/hear that spider's web is very strong and elastic, even stronger then steel, as scientific priests claim. I haven't tested it, but if somebody wants they can. Please, share results if you do so.

how can we possibly test it... ?

and strong in which sense ? stronger enough than steel to block the pressure of violent winds..

or stronger enough to escape from more than 1,500 ?C of heat pressure...

how much force required to remove  steel house compared to spider web?

 :peace:
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 05, 2017, 11:15:09 PM
Thank you, dear, for your scientific data, I was hoping that somebody'll do so, but I didn't expected this much.  :welcome:   :!  :hmm
Maybe you could inform us if you have any view is this about spider at all and if it's about its house or family.

Bender, I have no problem with that. Allah loves those who're asking for forgiveness. Allah loves humans. Yes, humans are very complicated and have a lot of negative attributes and I don't understand why Allah loves us, but He does.

But, I'd like if all of you ask: does "min dunillahi" includes Allah? If it doesn't then: are Beni Israil humans (en-nas), Wakas?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 06, 2017, 01:05:11 AM
An experiment you could try at your backyard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXppg5vcXIQ)

...

counterparts.

Great post!
Those parasites  :hypno:
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 06, 2017, 01:16:20 AM
Bender, I have no problem with that.
Well I do.
Since Allah does not give false information, one of us (or both) is lying or confuses his feeling with Allahs word.
Maybe next time we should leave Allah outside in discussions about definitions of some words and simply show how we came to such conclusions.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 06, 2017, 03:17:25 AM
Well I do.
Since Allah does not give false information, one of us (or both) is lying or confuses his feeling with Allahs word.
Maybe next time we should leave Allah outside in discussions about definitions of some words and simply show how we came to such conclusions.
As I told you: I haven't skipped Him this time and I got the explanation about this word. Take it as Ibn 'Arebi's "visions", if it's easier for you.
I can't leave Allah, otherwise I'd lie on Him.
Anybody can ask me or somebody else for explanation of anything, but we can't explain.

11:34 is my standing and 34:46 is something we all should do. (But don't use translations, ask from Allah swt to explain them)
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: imrankhawaja on February 06, 2017, 06:17:49 AM

The ?scientific priests ? claim that spider silk is 5 times stronger than steel.


hmm did he also claim that with the help of spider silk human will able to make stronger house or swords or stuff which is long lasting than steel... ? curious to know

and the name of that scientific priest send me a link and whatever he claims that would b nice...

thanx
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 06, 2017, 09:32:32 AM
If it sounds like a cat and it looks like a cat, it has to be a cat.
This logic functions almost always, but JUST almost.

For example: are ants "flying creatures"? Have jinns human form?

Bender's aggression in this topic is valid only if he thinks that what we know as "spider" is not "spider". Since I can't read minds I had to ignore that kind of discussion.

Yeah, I knew that some male spiders eat females and this is why I didn't mention their sex. Anyways, usage with "El" is about species, not about just any random spider.

I believe that knowledge about the name itself (El-'Ankeboot) can reveal reality about Spiders, hidden from us.

I believe that science can reveal the reality too, because ayets are all around us, and those who're looking for the reality can find it anywhere, not just in the Qur'an. Those who go astray by the science are priests of them, same as all other priests - expecting us to believe them blindly.

So, dear, if you find it useful you can think what makes these giants amongs what we know as "spiders" differ from others, why they're not eating each other. I don't enjoy in "canibalism", but since there's a reason for that it can be useful to think about it.

If I count good, then maybe what we know as "spiders" is not in 24:45. Science can be beautiful, if we understood "names".

Thanks you, once again.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 06, 2017, 01:23:29 PM
Hey Aladin

Quote
spider's web is very strong and elastic, even stronger then steel, as scientific priests claim. I haven't tested it, but if somebody wants they can. Please, share results if you do so.

I tested it many times when cleaning. It's very easy to get rid of. But the spider that's another story....
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 06, 2017, 01:42:08 PM
Hi, NJ. Whichever test satisfies you... but, maybe, you should think about house with your house's size made of spider's web.
Anyways, this has nothing with any kind of material building.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 06, 2017, 02:42:07 PM
Hi
Aladin
 
Quote
maybe, you should think about house with your house's size made of spider's web

Why. When it aint that big?
Quote
Anyways, this has nothing with any kind of material building
Yes thats in somehow my point.
The spiderweb is a very weak house. Thats just a fact. And you are welcome to size it up a million times in your head. But that just dont change the reality that as a house its very very weak.


Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: imrankhawaja on February 06, 2017, 03:20:40 PM
We're probably in our toddlerhood with our understanding of this.I think, we are maybe past our infancy but we are not mature with our understanding of this. We know how it works. But we can't replicate it in a scale fit to build spider silk skyscrapers.

RED hmm may be ..
BLUE what scale we should use for checking how strong is the   web of spider...(SI units perhaps)?




I think spider silk armours are a possibility in future.

.. its sounds interesting...

if you dnt mind telling me in detail about the spiders silk armours bit more? (plz)
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: imrankhawaja on February 06, 2017, 06:42:01 PM
1  (https://microbepost.org/2017/01/12/antibiotic-spider-silk-that-can-heal-wounds/)
 2  (https://www.wired.com/2012/02/spider-web-strength/)
 3  (http://inhabitat.com/scientists-unlock-secret-of-spider-silk-which-is-5-times-stronger-than-steel/)
 4  (https://www.fastcodesign.com/3046096/graphene-eating-spiders-spin-silk-stronger-than-kevlar)
 5  (http://www.kraiglabs.com/spider-silk/)
 6  (http://news.mit.edu/2012/spider-web-strength-0202)
 7  (http://escholarship.org/uc/item/2r16q1p5#page-1)
 8  (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-is-spider-silk-so-str/)
 9  (http://www.zmescience.com/science/physics/spider-silk-biosteel-amsilk-11032014/)
 10  (http://www.earthlife.net/chelicerata/silk.html)
 11  (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/whats-stronger-than-steel-spider-silk/)
 12  (http://www.livescience.com/8686-itsy-bitsy-spider-web-10-times-stronger-kevlar.html)
 13  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/16809642)
 14  (https://www.cnet.com/news/mutant-spiders-weave-webs-stronger-than-bulletproof-material/)
 15  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3687263/US-soldiers-set-spidersuits-Artificial-webs-stronger-steel-tested-bulletproof-clothing.html)
 16  (https://phys.org/news/2013-06-spider-silk-nature-stronger-steel.html)
 17  (http://www.npr.org/2017/01/14/509807212/spider-silk-is-stronger-than-steel-and-now-it-can-be-made-in-a-lab)
 18  (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/stronger-than-steel-scientists-begin-to-unlock-the-secrets-of-spider-silk-10253766.html)
 19  (https://www.ealt.ca/news-blog/spider-silk-stronger-than-steel)
 20  (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4106894/Artificial-spider-silk-breakthrough-researchers-reveal-mass-production-technique-threads-stronger-steel.html)
21 (http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3239)

thanx for the links
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 06, 2017, 07:33:15 PM
#notall is what I'm talking about. It sounds as our definitions (el-Esma') and Allah's definitions (El-Esma') differ. This is why I mentioned ayet from surah en-Noor (24:45), in which we were told about ALL "daabbet":

1) created of water
2) some of them move on their bellies
3) some of them move on 2 legs
4) some of them move on 4 legs.

Our (common) understanding includes this:

1) human is created of water - this is wrong, human was made of something else, but its body contains a lot of water
2) "daabbet" are animals
3) spiders are animals, so they're amongs "daabbet" - I counted more then 4 legs
4) birds are animals too
and so on...

We are putting our understanding of the words into Qur'an, as its teachers, not students.

Only some of ants are "flying creatures" and what we recognized as "Et-Tayr", so Suleyman a.s. could understand only some of them talking. So:

The Animals <> Daabbet (دَابَّة), and
The Ants <> En-Neml (النمل), similarly we cannot say
The Spiders = El-'Ankeboot (العنكبوت).

If I go further I can say that The Earth <> El-'Erd, The Skies <> Es-Sema', The Heavens <> Es-Semawat, The Sun <> Esh-Shems, The Moon <> El-Qamer, and so on, because our common definitions ("names", El-Esma') are not same as ones from the Qur'an.

If we recognize a few of attributes known to us for some "name" (Ism) we can identify their owner as something known to us, even they are not equal. This is how many of the people done shirk, for example. They were recognizing some of Allah's "Names" in things around them and they thought that it is Allah, even they couldn't find all His "Names" in it.

To identify El-'Ankeboot as something known to us, we should seek for something which has ALL its attributes known to us, and we know just a few things about it from the Qur'an. We're doing opposite, we indentified El-'Enkeboot as ALL spiders then we're comparing their attributes.

In short, not all spiders are in El-'Ankeboot, as not all ants are in Et-Tayr (or En-Neml).

We're thinking within the "names" we gave to "things" and its one of hijabs (vails) which permit us to understand better.
We should understand all the attributes of something before we "name" it, sounds as something and looks as something is not always that thing.

I'd like to add that some of what we know (?) as jinns looks like humans, but they're not humans.

And, if somebody can help, we have insan created of "earth" and jaan created of "fire" and daabbet created of "water"... what is created of "air"? So we can have all 4 elements... 5th (or 1st) is "noor".

I'm not denying anything you told, Andrewsarchus, just trying to make things clear with my bad English and strange way of explaining things.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 06, 2017, 09:14:15 PM
Oh lookie,What do we have here?
A male primate with a hint of humor,maybe.   

I bet an Incredible tornado would make short work of a human's house. So the human abode is very very weak for an incredible tornado, yes? Just don't change the reality, the house is very very weak. ;D
Hi Andreewsarchus
Yes I actually found that fact funny. Why did it had to be stretched when it was that simple!

But in the manner of comparing it with a human house you are wrong. A human house isnt in general a weak construction,  that needs to be build up over and over again.
Otherwise I think that God would have made us with the ability to spit it out one way or another.

Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 06, 2017, 09:28:29 PM
#notall is what I'm talking about. It sounds as our definitions (el-Esma') and Allah's definitions (El-Esma') differ. This is why I mentioned ayet from surah en-Noor (24:45), in which we were told about ALL "daabbet":

1) created of water
2) some of them move on their bellies
3) some of them move on 2 legs
4) some of them move on 4 legs.

Our (common) understanding includes this:

1) human is created of water - this is wrong, human was made of something else, but its body contains a lot of water
2) "daabbet" are animals
3) spiders are animals, so they're amongs "daabbet" - I counted more then 4 legs
4) birds are animals too
and so on...

Hi Aladin.
1) All animal reproduction in fact needs water.

2-4 I cant see it should be wrong. Due to it says some...


Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 06, 2017, 09:48:28 PM
NJ, the problem in that example is that our definition ("name") ANIMAL is not same as definition ("name") DAABBET, and we're taking it as it is.

We are using wrong definitions because we don't know better and it's acceptable in our communication. But, we can't take it as "reality" (haqq) and we should always know that it's not precize. Unless we are as Socrates ("I know that I don't know"), we'll make a lot of mistakes and we'll never get out of that "magic circle" (magic is as a synonym for illusion - "batil").

Speaking of ayet itself... "created of" doesn't mean "consists of". Nothing's wrong with ayet, but with our understanding. As I tried to explain, in our definitions: ALL spiders are animals; but in the Qur'an: El-'Ankeboot is not Daabbet (count its legs).
Also, our definition: ALL birds are animals; but: Et-Tayr are not Daabbet.
We can say that daabbet is (some of) animal, but we should know that it's not precise, unless we define "animal" 100% same as "daabbet" is.

We should install some good "compiler" in our thinking, so it can report an error each time we are using something unknown and not precisely identified :D
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 07, 2017, 01:45:42 AM
. As I tried to explain, in our definitions: ALL spiders are animals; but in the Qur'an: El-'Ankeboot is not Daabbet (count its legs).
Also, our definition: ALL birds are animals; but: Et-Tayr are not Daabbet.


Hi
Okay.

I understand your theory. I just testing its solidity.
Like: Can you be more specific: where it should be mentioned as not animal (Daabbet) in Quran.

Peace.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 07, 2017, 04:02:03 AM
We are using wrong definitions because we don't know better and it's acceptable in our communication. But, we can't take it as "reality" (haqq) and we should always know that it's not precize. Unless we are as Socrates ("I know that I don't know"), we'll make a lot of mistakes and we'll never get out of that "magic circle" (magic is as a synonym for illusion - "batil").
You told me that God himself told you the meaning of the words (at least for the word ankaboot), how can that not be precise or haqq?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 07, 2017, 04:05:44 AM
As I told you: I haven't skipped Him this time and I got the explanation about this word. Take it as Ibn 'Arebi's "visions", if it's easier for you.
I can't leave Allah, otherwise I'd lie on Him.
Anybody can ask me or somebody else for explanation of anything, but we can't explain.

11:34 is my standing and 34:46 is something we all should do. (But don't use translations, ask from Allah swt to explain them)

you used dictionaries/lexicons/online translations/posts in this forum/etc  to make anakaboot=spider, who are you exactly trying to fool?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 07, 2017, 04:40:07 AM
As matter of fact, Bender, I told before that I was thinking that translations (andother sources) are not good, and I thought that El-'Ankeboot<>The Spiders. I was right and I was wrong, same time. When I was learned a few of el-Esma', I understood it.

I haven't told: Bender, if you give me some money I'll explain something to you! Nor: Bender, follow me, you'll be guided! Nor anything like that.

I just wanted to share with you that even if we say "house" for "beyt", we should know that it's not a material building, it's about a family.
If you wanna check it you can do, if you wanna discard it you can do it too.

Anyways, there're other words in this ayet and if anybody wanna share something about them it'll be good. Saying "it's not correct" without explaining what is... I don't know what to say.

Please tell me if any translation (or other sources) is saying that Beni Israil are jinns or that "kitab" is not in any way "book, letter..." or that Et-Tewrat is "transmitted messages" or that last word in surah Kafiroon doesn't mean "my deen" or that "weqaar" in 71:13 means "deaf", etc.

I also said that Ibrahim a.s. was trown to female-jinns, with which his people were doing zina. I said too that "selam" is not a greeting and it doesn't mean "peace".

But, I'll share for you something else, which you can try to find in sources you mentioned.

BismillahirRahmanirRaheem
We approached to you increased
Therefore you shall keep nearness because of your Lord and have respect
He who hates you is the one most in need

Allah swt knows best.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: hansolo on February 07, 2017, 04:52:16 AM
Brother Aladin, what does

"BismillahirRahmanirRaheem
We approached to you increased
Therefore you shall keep nearness because of your Lord and have respect
He who hates you is the one most in need"

Mean/Say exactly?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 07, 2017, 05:18:45 AM
It's an attempt to translate surah Kewser (108.), hansolo.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 07, 2017, 07:37:29 AM
As matter of fact, Bender, I told before that I was thinking that translations (andother sources) are not good, and I thought that El-'Ankeboot<>The Spiders. I was right and I was wrong, same time. When I was learned a few of el-Esma', I understood it.

I haven't told: Bender, if you give me some money I'll explain something to you! Nor: Bender, follow me, you'll be guided! Nor anything like that.
No, you called me and others who have a different view blind ones and infected with interpretations of non-muslims (no idea what this means in your Godly dictionary but I don't think it's positive).
And I do not like people calling me blind because I am not as smart as them or because I do not have Godly visions.

Quote
I just wanted to share with you that even if we say "house" for "beyt", we should know that it's not a material building, it's about a family.
Again you bring something as truth while you are only speculating.

Quote
Anyways, there're other words in this ayet and if anybody wanna share something about them it'll be good. Saying "it's not correct" without explaining what is... I don't know what to say.
It works in the same way as "God told me so" or "I had a vision".

If I somewhere claim something just ask me and I will show you in detail how I came to my conclusions. It doesn't mean I am right, but at least I will show you how I came to my conclusions.

Quote
Please tell me if any translation (or other sources) is saying that Beni Israil are jinns or that "kitab" is not in any way "book, letter..." or that Et-Tewrat is "transmitted messages" or that last word in surah Kafiroon doesn't mean "my deen" or that "weqaar" in 71:13 means "deaf", etc.

I also said that Ibrahim a.s. was trown to female-jinns, with which his people were doing zina. I said too that "selam" is not a greeting and it doesn't mean "peace".
No idea, but does this make your defintions the correct ones?
I say Bani Israel are dinos, I am almost sure no one ever thought of that, does this mean now that God told me so?

God told you that Ibrahim was thrown to Beni Israel females aka female jinns? Interesting!

Quote
But, I'll share for you something else, which you can try to find in sources you mentioned.

BismillahirRahmanirRaheem
We approached to you increased
Therefore you shall keep nearness because of your Lord and have respect
He who hates you is the one most in need

Allah swt knows best.

thanks for sharing  :peace:

Brother Aladin, what does

"BismillahirRahmanirRaheem
We approached to you increased
Therefore you shall keep nearness because of your Lord and have respect
He who hates you is the one most in need"

Mean/Say exactly?

It's to comfort yourself that you are right and the one who disagrees with you is wrong.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 07, 2017, 08:42:01 AM
Again you bring something as truth while you are only speculating.
Not as "truth", as "reality". That's the meaning of the word "haqq". (If you want write it down)
I'm asking again and waiting for you to say anything after "no, it's not correct". Maybe some sentence as "this is the reality (or truth, if you like)...".

I had no visions, I'm not Saul/Paul nor Ibn 'Arebi. I just understood something which was explained to me.

I really don't care if you or anybody else is right or wrong, it's not upto me to judge. It's even impossible for anybody to judge you, because you said nothing here.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 07, 2017, 11:53:58 PM
Hi Andrewsarchus

All your words change the fact that the spider has the weakest house. Like also Quran also states.

I saw you impyed that it had to do with the family/social spider,and not house
And you claimed that there was nothing like a social spider. Also here I have to correct you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_spider

Peace.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Quote
Even widow spiders (genus Latrodectus), which are notoriously aggressive and cannibalistic, have formed small colonies in captivity, sharing webs and feeding together
Dear brother, I brought only one line from wikipedia's page.

1) What you understand as "a house"? I don't know much about spiders, but what happens when it rains for example?
2) Being social doesn't mean that they're not canibbalistic. Sociality is, as I understood, about "good relations" (hunting, protecting...) with others from their colony and it doesn't mean that they live with their spouses.
3) Have you checked if you can implement your understanding in all ayets where "beyt/buyoot" was mentioned?

Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 08, 2017, 02:38:45 AM
Not as "truth", as "reality". That's the meaning of the word "haqq". (If you want write it down)
I did not say haqq=truth, I said you should not throw your defintions on me as if they are truths.
Just like now with this word "haqq".

Quote
I'm asking again and waiting for you to say anything after "no, it's not correct". Maybe some sentence as "this is the reality (or truth, if you like)...".
In this case, I already did, I said God told me so, just like you.

Quote
I had no visions, I'm not Saul/Paul nor Ibn 'Arebi. I just understood something which was explained to me.
Now you lost me, earlier you said "I haven't skipped Him this time and I got the explanation about this word. Take it as Ibn 'Arebi's "visions", if it's easier for you."

Quote
I really don't care if you or anybody else is right or wrong, it's not upto me to judge. It's even impossible for anybody to judge you, because you said nothing here.
But you already judged me in your OP as being blind and following non-muslims.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 03:18:23 AM
I didn't told that you're blind and you're following non-Muslims. I said that those who can't see obvious are blind and most of translators/commentators followed (are following) dictionaries from non-Muslims or their followers. It's nothing unexpected, we all are getting guidance from sources we're accepting as legit. I tried to warn others on that, because I was doing same in most cases and I know what I'm talking about.

I said "take it as Ibn 'Arebi's visions if it's easier for you", which meant: if you can't understand reality which I tried to tell. The reality is that ONLY Allah swt can explain the Qur'an.

What I said about "truth" (s-d-q) is that my intention was not to come with evidencies outside this ayet, I just wanted to come with its reality (h-q-q), which is "beyt" = "a family". If you need proves you can ask for them, or if you think that it's illusion (batil) you have to come with proves for that. Otherwise, your words are empty, if you're not blind.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 08, 2017, 03:50:21 AM
I didn't told that you're blind and you're following non-Muslims. I said that those who can't see obvious are blind and most of translators/commentators followed (are following) dictionaries from non-Muslims or their followers. It's nothing unexpected, we all are getting guidance from sources we're accepting as legit. I tried to warn others on that, because I was doing same in most cases and I know what I'm talking about.

I said "take it as Ibn 'Arebi's visions if it's easier for you", which meant: if you can't understand reality which I tried to tell. The reality is that ONLY Allah swt can explain the Qur'an.

What I said about "truth" (s-d-q) is that my intention was not to come with evidencies outside this ayet, I just wanted to come with its reality (h-q-q), which is "beyt" = "a family". If you need proves you can ask for them, or if you think that it's illusion (batil) you have to come with proves for that. Otherwise, your words are empty, if you're not blind.
You already gave in your OP your waterproof evidence:

"I hope that this example will be clear proof, even for those who're near to be totally blind.
The real (haqq) meaning of this word is "family" and this ayet is talking that weakest of families is spider's. Why?
Because most of spiders are eaten after or during sexual intercourse, trying to "take" a family.
(note: FM translation for اتَّخَذُوا is "take" and for the same word in the same ayet اتَّخَذَتْ is "makes")

Please check all ayets with word "beyt" in any form and think about them. I hope Allah swt will explain to us a lot in them.
"

in combination with

"Allah swt told me so."


One of the most brilliant proofs I've ever seen  :yes
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 04:06:19 AM
I'd really like to know your frequency, maybe different kind of light can help.

Have you noticed in text you quoted "outside this ayet"? I told, if you need further evidencies, to check all ayets with "beyt".
But, if you are so blind, ask and I can tell you how "logic" works in all ayets. I can't explain them to you, but I can tell you where to look. So, if you're not blind you'll see for sure.

If your motive was what I told about dictionaries/lexicons then I'm sorry, I can't talk what you like to hear. If you're satisfied that "taqwa" has root waw-qaf-ya, I really can't help.

In case you don't need help to see and you don't wanna share your own opinion about the word "beyt", I won't further answer your comments about this topic.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Man of Faith on February 08, 2017, 04:06:54 AM
Even if Allah told you so, what do you gain from that?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 04:09:15 AM
Even if Allah told you so, what do you gain from that?
For example, I know that in case I wanna divorce my wife I have to keep her close to her family (not her house) during 'iddet. This means that I should let her be with her kids, not just locked in one of rooms.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Man of Faith on February 08, 2017, 04:23:22 AM
And that is not common sense?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Timotheus on February 08, 2017, 04:26:41 AM
Peace,

Beyt is a house, the word goes back pretty far, just look at the pictogram B ב especially in ancient forms it's clearly a house. Hence the preposition b- in Hebrew, Arabic means in, with, etc because a house is where you keep things
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 04:39:48 AM
Peace,

Beyt is a house, the word goes back pretty far, just look at the pictogram B ב especially in ancient forms it's clearly a house. Hence the preposition b- in Hebrew, Arabic means in, with, etc because a house is where you keep things
I hope that if I tell you that Hebrew and Arabic are not lisan of the Qur'an and their rules are men(and jinns)-made will be enough for you at least to think about it.

"a house is where you keep things" is from some lexicon, isn't it?

MoF, no, it's from the Qur'an. I don't see "common sense" as a solid huden.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Bender on February 08, 2017, 06:54:06 AM
I'd really like to know your frequency, maybe different kind of light can help.

Have you noticed in text you quoted "outside this ayet"? I told, if you need further evidencies, to check all ayets with "beyt".
But, if you are so blind, ask and I can tell you how "logic" works in all ayets. I can't explain them to you, but I can tell you where to look. So, if you're not blind you'll see for sure.

If your motive was what I told about dictionaries/lexicons then I'm sorry, I can't talk what you like to hear. If you're satisfied that "taqwa" has root waw-qaf-ya, I really can't help.
My motive/frequency/whatever is that you bring a lot of nonsense and present that as truth with nonsense evidence, besides that you call people who do not believe in your nonsense blind ones and affected with non-muslim interpretations.


Quote
In case you don't need help to see and you don't wanna share your own opinion about the word "beyt", I won't further answer your comments about this topic.
My opinion about the word beyt is that it does not mean family, check the other ayats to see for yourself. And besides that Allah swt told me so in a Ibn 'Arebi's "vision"  but don't make the mistake now to think I had visions,  I'm not Saul/Paul nor Ibn 'Arebi. I just understood something which was explained to me.

there is no obligation to answer my questions.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Man of Faith on February 08, 2017, 07:25:43 AM
I hope that if I tell you that Hebrew and Arabic are not lisan of the Qur'an and their rules are men(and jinns)-made will be enough for you at least to think about it.

"a house is where you keep things" is from some lexicon, isn't it?

MoF, no, it's from the Qur'an. I don't see "common sense" as a solid huden.

Common sense is what is obvious without saying, and what is obviously sensible is clearly guidance.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Man of Faith on February 08, 2017, 07:29:35 AM
Peace,

Beyt is a house, the word goes back pretty far, just look at the pictogram B ב especially in ancient forms it's clearly a house. Hence the preposition b- in Hebrew, Arabic means in, with, etc because a house is where you keep things

Beyet is not necessarily a physical object. It can refer to the foundation of something.

In the case of Abraham, he established the first assembly for the people, this is what the ancient Arabic wishes to say.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: huruf on February 08, 2017, 07:36:31 AM
The most obvious aspect of spiders are webs. Are they their bait? Wakas link was right, I think in that respect, webs are the spider weapons or instruments to get their food.

The word bait has several meanings, but the primary meaning is that of shelter, abode, place where one stays. By extension might, only might, mean family, but that is not its primary and basic meaning. And when in the Qur'an the family of the prophet is mentionned, they are not called the bait but ahl-ul-bait.

Speaking about spiders, thanks to all the writers who have expounded on this beautiful and hardworking animal. It does reveal that the bait of the spider in fact is wherever it stays, which indeed is about the most voluble kind of beit, that is not a settled specifically appointed place.

But that is logical, spiders are not notorious for their homes, but for their hunting weapons. And those are indeed very remarkable.

Salaam
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Wakas on February 08, 2017, 07:51:46 AM
peace all,

Evidence, logic and cross-reference within Quran is key.

That is how Quran teaches us to verify: http://www.quran434.com/study-method.html

My motive/frequency/whatever is that you bring a lot of nonsense and present that as truth with nonsense evidence...

I agree with your analysis of Aladin's posts on this topic.

Beyet is not necessarily a physical object. It can refer to the foundation of something.

2:127 And when Abraham was raising the foundations from/of the foundation...

Fail.


For those interested in a Quran based analysis of bayt, see here:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

Short summary to make it easier:

Quote
?The things described as secure in these contexts are sanctuary/haram, town/land/balad, and shelter/bayt.
?Provision of fruits is associated in these contexts with the sanctuary/haram, people of the town/land/balad and people of the shelter/bayt.
?27:91 makes clear that it is the town/land/balad that is the part made inviolable/restricted, and "this" clearly implies the town/land is finite/delimited, i.e. has spatial boundaries.
?14:37 gives us an example of a shelter/bayt made inviolable.
?The only thing that Abraham asked to be made secure was the town/land/balad, and the only thing God explicitly made secure, in the context of Abraham, was the house/shelter/bayt. Are we told if God answered his prayer in AQ? Yes, if balad=bayt.

There does seem to be enough overlap to suggest that in these contexts the bayt/shelter could refer to the balad/town/land. If so, this would make sense.
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Aladin from Azra tribe on February 08, 2017, 09:03:00 AM
Wakas, ru sure that it's not "postmenopausal" as in other ayet, instead of "foundations". Have you checked lexicons recently?

You couldn't find more idiotic way to prove your shirk (taking others as gods, ones you're slave of, besides/skipping Allah swt).

Please tell me this: how foundations can be rised from THE HOUSE? I thought it's reverse: the house can be rised from ITS foundations! OK, I know that you don't understand lisan of the Qur'an, there're zillion hijabs between your sight and it, but you can understand English and think about it (I'm not good in thinking in English, yet).

Please, don't come and say something which was not said in ayet, your ignorance and kibr can take you to some bad condition. Just think.

And, if you're going to think, please think about what I asked you here: does "min dunillahi" include Allah, and if it doesn't, are Beni Israil humans?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: NielsJacob on February 08, 2017, 09:24:27 AM
Peace Andrewsarchus
Quote
Are you against the silk or the web? Be specific!
There is ample evidence for me to testify to the strength of spider SILK.

Yes I agree with you in that total :)

My point was as a house/home..

(respect for reading the correct meaning in my post   :handshake:)
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Man of Faith on February 09, 2017, 12:48:55 PM
Ah yes, I forgot I had seen that Beyet is something similar to concept, based on lexicon input.

Foundation is something else. My bad.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: TellMeTheTruth on February 09, 2017, 01:49:40 PM
Salam!

Most of the spiders live in dens, lairs, or water bubbles, which are not strong enough to protect them from enemies or other environmental factors. (Only a few kinds are social and live in colonies, which might be safer). Therefore, I think the word "اوھن" could be translated as "most vulnerable" الأكثر ضعفا. 

Allah knows the Best!
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: The Sardar on November 21, 2019, 09:22:50 AM
Any updates on this topic?
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Mazhar on November 21, 2019, 12:28:19 PM
Any updates on this topic?

The problem with the author of thread and others is merely looking at one word and then equating with Web.

Bayt means nothing else than house. And house does not mean web. Webs are made separately by males and females for catching a prey.


مَثَلُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ أَوْلِيَآءَ

The equivalence of those people who have consciously and purposely adopted some statues perceiving for themselves as protectors, benefactors, godfathers other than Allah the Exalted is:

كَمَثَلِ ٱلْعَنكَبُوتِ ٱتَّخَذَتْ بَيْتٙاۖ

Like the specific She-Spider when she has purposely adopted some object/pebble as house (storing place of egg-sack).

وَإِنَّ أَوْهَنَ ٱلْبُيُوتِ لَبَيْتُ ٱلْعَنكَبُوتِۖ

Know the fact, the flimsiest of the houses is certainly the adopted-house of specific She-Spider.

لَوْ كَانُوا۟۟ يَعْلَمُونَ .29:41٤١

Had they but known-realized flimsiness of their choice. [29:41]

Verb is doubly transitive, one is elided purposely since understood.

 
Title: Re: Spider's house
Post by: Wakas on November 22, 2019, 05:41:05 AM
Any updates on this topic?

Seems pretty straightforward to me:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602147.msg274246#msg274246