They just can't be human. No wonder Adam means human. Females aren't humans. I wonder if they even have souls? No wonder most of the known prophets were males.
What is your point?
What just happened :hypno:
Hahahaha yeah women can be soulless sometimes :rotfl:
i remember a traditional tale of "qalandars"
so what i hear about them in the childhood is something like that..
there are 2.5 qalandars ever put the foot on the face of earth there names are as follows...
1 lal shahbaz qalandar
2 Boo ali qalandar
3 Rabia basri (half qalandar) ... OMG...
even in the race of saints the girl awarded/ranked as half qalandar instead of full...
total three but considered as 2.5 a possible rasicm... :rotfl:
the question about the women messenger is logical , but as we know quran never claim any female name for prophets or messengers .. but in one verse its confirmed there are plantey of messengers came which are not mentioned by name..
so thats y we are not sure ... about it ...
Maryam is a prohphet and is named and spoken of amongst prophets in sura el Anbiya' in the Qur'an.
Salaam
For anyone wondering, I made this thread as parody of someone else's thread with the statement that the white people are the jinns.
However, I see people took it as serious, might be my fault for not making it clear that it was a joke.
I see its wiser to not make jokes at all, people have different understanding of humor after all.
Apologize if anyone was negatively affected by this thread.
Quote from: huruf on March 19, 2017, 04:13:00 PM
Maryam is a prohphet and is named and spoken of amongst prophets in sura el Anbiya' in the Qur'an.
Salaam
She's not a prophet.
Salam
Quote from: A Submitter on March 19, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
She's not a prophet.
Salam
Are you the Pope by chance? He is supposed to be infallible.
Salaam
Quote from: huruf on March 19, 2017, 05:51:36 PM
Are you the Pope by chance? He is supposed to be infallible.
Salaam
No.
And Maryam isn't a prophet.
Salam
it appears to me maryum recieved a message from God through gabriel that she will gona give a birth to a child who will b the righteous /blessed people of God so by default she is a messenger...
if prophet = news giver /informer
and messenger = the one who carry message
then maryum got both of them
although there is not any direct referrence from quran that maryum was nabi/rasool ..(usually nabi/rasool we reffered as the person who carry a message or revelation from the authoriity of God and send to a nation)
God knows best..
There is indeed such reference in sura Al anbiy? , an enumeration of prophets is given with detail, one after the other with the rference "and remember so and so, and one of them is Maryam" and in sura al Muminun she is mentionned in the same kind of succession right after Musa her child and she as an aya both of them, jointly are an aya.Then the last aya of sura AlTahrim we are told , "and she confirmed the words and decrees of her Lord and was of the qanitin".
The sad art about Maryam and Isa is that the message they both brought donot even wat to get near it. And so are the muslims and others faring. Plennty of mircles but no mercy nor truth.
The matter is not whether she is acknowledged or not, God knows and that shuld be enough for her, but the matter for us is whether we are ready to get her message and the aya she is jointly with ther son. We seem to be light years from that. Too bad for us.
Salaam
mayum is the best & respected among the womens preffered over all other womens
3:42 And the angels said: "O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over all the women of the worlds."
and one more even when she didnot hear about jesus ...
3:37 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said: "O Mary, from where did you get this?" She said: "It is from God, for God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning."
other righteous womens are there too like wife of pharoah...
but maryum got distinction over them by the grace of God...
Quote from: Man of Faith on March 20, 2017, 10:30:02 AM
What is a prophet to you?
Someone who receives a message from God, in the form of Book, scriptures etc.
Messengers spread them.
Quote from: A Submitter on March 20, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Someone who receives a message from God, in the form of Book, scriptures etc.
Messengers spread them.
What does the word prophecy mean to you?
Quote from: Man of Faith on March 20, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
What does the word prophecy mean to you?
I don't know, never thought about the word. You?
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 20, 2017, 11:13:43 AM
mayum is the best & respected among the womens preffered over all other womens
3:42 And the angels said: "O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over all the women of the worlds."
and one more even when she didnot hear about jesus ...
3:37 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said: "O Mary, from where did you get this?" She said: "It is from God, for God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning."
other righteous womens are there too like wife of pharoah...
but maryum got distinction over them by the grace of God...
God selects or selects someone to be a prphet for a purpose, not in order to parade as the best of women,as if it was some conntest for womanhood or beauty or excellency, God selects a person like tht for a purpose. To say God selected Maryam above all women is empty. God selected Maryam for a purpose. Muslims do not want to knw what that purpose was. For parading as the best of women? Ok although I never know the Qur'an of putting up such contests, let us take it that she was the best of women, so what? what was her mission?
Salaam
Quote from: huruf on March 20, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
God selects or selects someone to be a prphet for a purpose, not in order to parade as the best of women,as if it was some conntest for womanhood or beauty or excellency, God selects a person like tht for a purpose. To say God selected Maryam above all women is empty. God selected Maryam for a purpose. Muslims do not want to knw what that purpose was. For parading as the best of women? Ok although I never know the Qur'an of putting up such contests, let us take it that she was the best of women, so what? what was her mission?
Salaam
i am not putting her on contest or competetion..
her mission was very clear, she was about to give a birth to jesus, for this God selected her throughout all the womens of world.. and because she was chaste and pure... she did what no women ever did on the planet of earth.. a virgin brith ... (by the will of God)..
what i said is very simple ... and understandable.. its not my words its words from God...
i can figure out what you are thinking if i am not wrong.. but in my first post i clear my position , i dnt have any issue either she is a messenger or prophet...
but what i know she is respected and immaculate ...
i love her , i respect her, i adore her, she is like a spirtual mother for me...
about the prophethood i cant say something which i have no knowledge off..
what i want to say is.. she is the mother of the one who is prophet /messenger /rightoeus and proclaimed one ..
she already on a level very high...
NOTE , and yeh if she is not a prophet or messenger ... then
by defualt no women can be a messenger... or prophet...(may b womens dnt like it ;))
HAT? Never in the Qur'an virginity mentionned or considered better than non virginity and she coud not boeast tht si ws a virgin because she was pregnant and gave birth to the eyes of everybody then and later as a single mother. Can yu imagine her saying I am a virgin? God told her not to sy anything and 3isa is her word.
What kind of example or of use is tht she was a virgin? Where is the tahing? Vifginity is not a merit and she is never mentionned as such.
But of course making her a virgin fits in the patriarchal mindset of exacting for women as virtues things thst i themselves are nothing. The point is th virginity or non virginity is neither here nor there. Who what is the use of Maryam? What oes she and her presence int eh Qur'an teach? nd what is the aya that she is jointly with ther son?
Salaam
Quote from: A Submitter on March 19, 2017, 06:26:26 PM
No.
And Maryam isn't a prophet.
Salam
And in any case she was better. She did not even have to have any traditionally understood "charge" to appear in Quran :peace:
Quote from: huruf on March 21, 2017, 04:35:26 AM
HAT? Never in the Qur'an virginity mentionned or considered better than non virginity and she coud not boeast tht si ws a virgin because she was pregnant and gave birth to the eyes of everybody then and later as a single mother. Can yu imagine her saying I am a virgin? God told her not to sy anything and 3isa is her word.
What kind of example or of use is tht she was a virgin? Where is the tahing? Vifginity is not a merit and she is never mentionned as such.
But of course making her a virgin fits in the patriarchal mindset of exacting for women as virtues things thst i themselves are nothing. The point is th virginity or non virginity is neither here nor there. Who what is the use of Maryam? What oes she and her presence int eh Qur'an teach? nd what is the aya that she is jointly with ther son?
Salaam
sorry , i think virgin birth you considered it as the birth in virginity...
in fact , the virgin/non virgin birth .. without the help of male ... thats sounds more correct ...
and with the help of this verse one can easily understand , she was virgin + untouched by any men...
3:45 The angels said, "O Mary, God gives good news of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah,
Jesus the son of Mary. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close."
3:46 "And he will speak to the people from the
cradle and to middle-age, and is from among the upright."
3:47 She said, "
My Lord, how can I have a son when no human has touched me?" He said, "It is thus that God creates what He wills, when He decrees a command, He merely says to it 'Be,' and it becomes."
three apparent points here... he was isa ibne mariam..
(a name of biological father is not present there)he speak to the people from cradle as a miracle...
(as a charge of messenger/prophet)mary was virgin at that time and before isa, God also create
adam and eve without father and mother both... so its easy for God to make a child without father...
(God creates what he wills outside of the laws of universe)
i think if i understand you correctly .. thats what you asked ...?
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 07:05:32 AM
And in any case she was better. She did not even have to have any traditionally understood "charge" to appear in Quran :peace:
What?
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 08:16:52 AM
What?
Joking!
(Btw you cant prove ahe wasnt a prophet or messenger, can you?)
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 08:22:34 AM
Joking!
(Btw you cant prove ahe wasnt a prophet or messenger, can you?)
actually he cannot prove .. but i want to share one verse with you hope it will help cracking this puzzle ...
16:43 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.this verse indicates due to a reason God did not find it perfect to send women as a messenger...
what reason i dnt know...
may b womens are weaker in strenth... people do things with womens... even with male prophets...
they plan to crucify jesus...
they plan to kill moses
moses was afraid regarding pharoh so he asked assistance from God in the shape of aaron...
david fought with goliath... and eventually killed him in a daredevil way...
womens are just good in cooking (just kidding) ... i m not sexixt , i try to understand the reason always ... as far untill now thats some reasons i think to b ponder...
for example they were wright brothers who make first flight for us... not wright sisters... becoz for giving them energy , wright sisters were cooking for them... but in general everybody need everybody... its the women who give birth to wright brothers...
Ys men who are not even able to read an aya right to the end. If you did read that entire aya you quote partially you would see it says men as a specicies ot as a sex, since it speakes after of they sleeping an deating. So according to you women cook but they do not sleep or eat.
I am afrid muslims, even qur'an only are hopeless. They msy play with some elightment but please, do not rock the boat too much or you are feminists ans shaytans. Whyy no tmake out right two species?
Peace Imran.
I suppose I will have to do the other side of the coin.
Behind every successful man...Yes a woman.
If there were no women...There will be no men( Actually this tells you everything you need to know about women).
There is surah "Women"... There is no surah"Men".
Important men?...Women prefer to stay behind the scene,humble,loving,caring and doing what is important.
GOD bless you and all the women.
Peace.
Quote from: good logic on March 21, 2017, 09:19:42 AM
Peace Imran.
I suppose I will have to do the other side of the coin.
Behind every successful man...Yes a woman.
If there were no women...There will be no men( Actually this tells you everything you need to know about women).
There is surah "Women"... There is no surah"Men".
Important men?...Women prefer to stay behind the scene,humble,loving,caring and doing what is important.
GOD bless you and all the women.
Peace.
yes i fullly agreee...
i love my mother more than my father...
i love my sisters more than my brothers...
i love my nieces more than nephews...
and i love them (naturally)...
God bless all the womens and men of world...
Quote from: huruf on March 21, 2017, 09:16:00 AM
Ys men who are not even able to read an aya right to the end. If you did read that entire aya you quote partially you would see it says men as a specicies ot as a sex, since it speakes after of they sleeping an deating. So according to you women cook but they do not sleep or eat.
I am afrid muslims, even qur'an only are hopeless. They msy play with some elightment but please, do not rock the boat too much or you are feminists ans shaytans. Whyy no tmake out right two species?
its just your views about men, because i can feel it... ( mens are sharp enough to see when a women feel herself in that state)
its devil that make them appear what is not truth... and that thing drive a women crazy most of the times... and some after effects like jealousy, envy, are very common...
but my toipic is not on gender debate niether i am interested... i just dnt like when suddenly people turn the discussion into personla attacks instead of bringing information in hand .. like some verses...
may b the factor of age is playing its role...
Peace, gentallman!
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 21, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
actually he cannot prove .. but i want to share one verse with you hope it will help cracking this puzzle ...
16:43 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.
But if you take "rijalan" as "male" there and not with the meaning of real people walking and breathing... Then Musa's mom was a man according to 20:38 :o
Haaaave a great day :sun:
Please spare me yuor garbage psychoogy.
And how is it personal attk to point out to you thaty you artfully ommitted half the ay in order to make prophecy a monopoly of male. In fact I have bbeen too graciousto yur lack of debating manners.
But it is what I said. Muslims, even some of those who claim to be Qur'an only are too busy with their delusions to be able to go beyond their ownlack of self assurance. To judge by it it must be a terrible state to be a male. I do not think so, thsnk God I have had the chance to now hnest men in my life. But this struggling with dislike fr anything tht rocks the monopoly on this or that for males make them look pitiful. And they ressort to stating that womenn who do not pander to that are suffering from this and that... Oh, my God, I am so very worried! It is too funny.
Salaam
Quote from: hansolo on March 19, 2017, 04:16:46 PM
For anyone wondering, I made this thread as parody of someone else's thread with the statement that the white people are the jinns.
However, I see people took it as serious, might be my fault for not making it clear that it was a joke.
I see its wiser to not make jokes at all, people have different understanding of humor after all.
Apologize if anyone was negatively affected by this thread.
I quite believe you meant it as ajoke. What else could it be?
But I think you thought too highly of people and too little of the kind of traps they are in. Women are of the choicest pieces to get when you go hunting. You practically opened hunting season, I am afraid.
Never mind
Salaam
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 08:22:34 AM
Joking!
(Btw you cant prove ahe wasnt a prophet or messenger, can you?)
I did;
QuoteSomeone who receives a message from God, in the form of Book, scriptures etc.
Messengers spread them.
Conclusion: Maryam is NOT a prophet.
Salam
Quote from: huruf on March 21, 2017, 09:55:46 AM
Please spare me yuor garbage psychoogy.
you need to learn typing first before psycology... best advice for you...
well its not my own wording , i gave my refrences , if all these refrences are garbagge too then its a different matter..
Quote from: huruf on March 21, 2017, 09:55:46 AM
In fact I have bbeen too graciousto yur lack of debating manners.
you dnt need to b gracious... when your manners are seeking answers..
specially when u debate without quoting any reference from boook,, apart from your wishful gender thinking ,
@ moderators i can understand sister huruf is suffering from some ageing issue so if she allowed to continously insults like this RED then its better if she did not enggage a discussion with me..
well forget it.. i always respect old womens , sometimes people told me at old age mind sometimes crack so i can get the
insults carry on sister... thanx ..
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 09:54:11 AM
Peace, gentallman!
But if you take "rijalan" as "male" there and not with the meaning of real people walking and breathing... Then Musa's mom was a man according to 20:38 :o
Haaaave a great day :sun:
20:38
اذ اوحينا الى امك ما يوحى20:38 "When We inspired to your mother what was inspired.gentle lady dnt listen to elderly people sometimes they trick us in misguiding ;)
where is the word what we are hunting...?
btw i already cleared my position in some thread about cross refrencing thing... and this word we discussed there too i think it was lgbt topic..
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 21, 2017, 11:01:57 AM
20:38 اذ اوحينا الى امك ما يوحى
20:38 "When We inspired to your mother what was inspired.
gentle lady dnt listen to elderly people sometimes they trick us in misguiding ;)
where is the word what we are hunting...?
btw i already cleared my position in some thread about cross refrencing thing... and this word we discussed there too i think it was lgbt topic..
We are hunting "inspiration" and "revelation", gentleman from Pakistan. Every man who is inspired (و ح ي) and his name is close to this root (except jinns and evil like in 6:111 or 6:121) are considered messengers. But in the case of a woman she is not (?) why? If that verse (20:38) were about a man and not about Mosa's mother, i am sure no one would have any problem considering him a messenger who is just named on Quran...
Maryam was sent a sign from the Lord and He made her a sign for human kind but she is just a rigtheous woman who gave birth and Believed? If she were a man you'd say with confidence he was a messenger.
What else did she need to be considered a messenger? Be a man? :rotfl: )
And your advice won't be taken into account, huruf has taught me soooo much through her writings in spanish and english and she has been so kind to me that i will always listen to her even if i dont agree.
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 21, 2017, 10:56:42 AM
you need to learn typing first before psycology... best advice for you...
well its not my own wording , i gave my refrences , if all these refrences are garbagge too then its a different matter..
you dnt need to b gracious... when your manners are seeking answers..
specially when u debate without quoting any reference from boook,, apart from your wishful gender thinking ,
@ moderators i can understand sister huruf is suffering from some ageing issue so if she allowed to continously insults like this RED then its better if she did not enggage a discussion with me..
well forget it.. i always respect old womens , sometimes people told me at old age mind sometimes crack so i can get the insults carry on sister... thanx ..
You are really cute. So you think that playing with my age will bring me down some notches? That says a lot not about me but about you.
Salaam
Whoever wants to say something against women, please imagine saying these things to your own mother, who is a woman too.
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 11:21:28 AM
And your advice won't be taken into account, huruf has taught me soooo much through her writings in spanish and english and she has been so kind to me that i will always listen to her even if i dont agree.
Thank you, Virginia, I appreciate your words.
Unfortunatey for some, if a woman argues for consideration of woman, she is seeking gender war, but all the consideration exclusive for males tht is taken for granted is never a gender war, but what is due as if nales had a special relationship with God, like the United States and Israel. It is weird.
Salaam
Quote from: hansolo on March 21, 2017, 02:00:20 PM
Whoever wants to say something against women, please imagine saying these things to your own mother, who is a woman too.
Indeed, hansolo.
Salaam
It doesn't change the fact that Maryam wasn't a prophet.
Salam
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 02:49:59 PM
It doesn't change the fact that Maryam wasn't a prophet.
Salam
Would you please open a new thread proving your claim that she was not? You will have to start giving a definition/ understanding of what a prophet is
Hava a nice day :sun:
-
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 03:02:41 PM
-
Was that an argument or answer? :confused:
(I read your previous answer about "nabi" just now. Then according to YOUR understanding of it, no she was not a prophet)
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 03:19:49 PM
Both
Come oooon, you can make! It is not difficult: just start the new word after the other and voil?! You have a two words sentence! :yay: some people call it being kind :peace:
Quote from: aries on March 21, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
Come oooon, you can make! It is not difficult: just start the new word after the other and voil?! You have a two words sentence! :yay: some people call it being kind :peace:
What are you talking about?
Quote from: virginia on March 21, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
Come oooon, you can make! It is not difficult: just start the new word after the other and voil?! You have a two words sentence! :yay: some people call it being kind :peace:
Didn't you know that his word is true, he knows what is apparent and what is hidden, he created the earth and the heavens and everything in them, nothing comes into existence except with his command and he is the almighty the knower the A Submitter.
Quote from: Bender on March 21, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
Didn't you know that his word is true, he knows what is apparent and what is hidden, he created the earth and the heavens and everything in them, nothing comes into existence except with his command and he is the almighty the knower the A Submitter.
Mocking again *facepalm
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 04:30:26 PM
Mocking again *facepalm
RED: you can use this one :brickwall:
hurts a bit in the head but it relieves the heart
Quote from: Bender on March 21, 2017, 04:45:06 PM
RED: you can use this one :brickwall:
hurts a bit in the head but it relieves the heart
I'll try brother.
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
Of course, I was also a teenager
edit: you wrote something else
Quote from: huruf on March 21, 2017, 11:40:13 AM
You are really cute. So you think that playing with my age will bring me down some notches? That says a lot not about me but about you.
Salaam
RED, thanx but this thing i already know about me...( you are cute too , i love the company of elder people) but i also know their nature like stubborn kids. sometimes , my own grandfather in his last days acted like kid, but i simply loved him always..
BOLD , i m not playing with your age, its not really a thing to play specially nobody want to take a voyage in sinking titanic... :rotfl:
Quote from: aries on March 21, 2017, 11:21:28 AM
We are hunting "inspiration" and "revelation", gentleman from Pakistan. Every man who is inspired (و ح ي) and his name is close to this root (except jinns and evil like in 6:111 or 6:121) are considered messengers. But in the case of a woman she is not (?) why? If that verse (20:38) were about a man and not about Mosa's mother, i am sure no one would have any problem considering him a messenger who is just named on Quran...
Maryam was sent a sign from the Lord and He made her a sign for human kind but she is just a rigtheous woman who gave birth and Believed? If she were a man you'd say with confidence he was a messenger.
What else did she need to be considered a messenger? Be a man? :rotfl: )
And your advice won't be taken into account, huruf has taught me soooo much through her writings in spanish and english and she has been so kind to me that i will always listen to her even if i dont agree.
ok , if you see your last post this one (
But if you take "rijalan" as "male" there and not with the meaning of real people walking and breathing... Then Musa's mom was a man according to 20:38)...
womens always make a topic cofusing ... lol gentle lady ...
so now you want me to start on wahi....no after riajal,,, lets carry on then...
if my mom recieved a wahi/inspiration actually lot of times it happen... she saw some dreams that come true... so i consider her as nabi...
(on top of that everytime i saw her doing salat, reading quran, and rest of the time she cook for me if i wish to eat something of her hand)
if thats the defination of nabi... then i really have no problem in accepting maryum nabi... even everyone who claimed to b nabi , on the behalf of wahi/revelation/inspiration... including MOF :police:
now we are coming to messenger (rasool) ...
now before i draw my conclusion of rasool i would like to ask you again what is the defination of rasool infront of you... (messenger)...
all that time you did not focus on what i m on about ...in bold
there is no direct reference of maryum as a messenger in book... (did she suppose to deleiver a message to any nation?)
gentle lady as a side note, huruf, me , any scholar , any person.. whatever they give you , in my humble view u need to filter it through the lens of God... as per 17 36 ...
i hope you learn a lot from her in your next life, but make sure if she misunderstood something about gender war , what i clearly see in her every post then she is free of responsibilty becoz God gave you mind of your own..
she really have some issues with men, on other hand i love womens all of them with my sincear heart , becoz i know my mother is a women too...
sometimes this thing drive us crazy and there devil make a way... in my previous experience in some cases people even try to ignore God words. ddnt want to go in detail, the 2 witnesses of business transaction of quran if u see by her lens , you will see how successfully she will manage to tell you its not two women, i just dnt compromise with someone on wishful gender thinking.. God words are more important...
have a blessed day gentle lady...
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 22, 2017, 02:58:48 AM
there is no direct reference of maryum as a messenger in book... (did she suppose to deleiver a message to any nation?)
Do you think Meryem was speech-impaired (not sure if this is the correct term)?
Miryem was a messenger in her ways by acting as a beacon of proper living. The word that you translate as messenger, Rasuul, does not literally mean a person that has to open the mouth but it can be an object of imitation and Miryem's life is intended to be a model for women but also men and therefore she is a messenger. Read Arabic lexicons. This post is not unfounded.
Miryem according to your sectarian interpretation was communicating with God and received sustenance out of nowhere. She did say a few things indicating she was teaching about confidence in God. What do you consider a prophet?
Quran does contain much fewer prophets if you follow your own logic, because Quran does not recognize them as prophets (nabi) by word and they have not been written about as writing or compiling a scripture.
Please learn to utilize logic before sounding so self-satisfied and correct.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Quote from: Man of Faith on March 22, 2017, 04:33:17 AM
Miryem was a messenger in her ways by acting as a beacon of proper living. The word that you translate as messenger, Rasuul, does not literally mean a person that has to open the mouth but it can be an object of imitation and Miryem's life is intended to be a model for women but also men and therefore she is a messenger. Read Arabic lexicons. This post is not unfounded.
Miryem according to your sectarian interpretation was communicating with God and received sustenance out of nowhere. She did say a few things indicating she was teaching about confidence in God. What do you consider a prophet?
Quran does contain much fewer prophets if you follow your own logic, because Quran does not recognize them as prophets (nabi) by word and they have not been written about as writing or compiling a scripture.
Please learn to utilize logic before sounding so self-satisfied and correct.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel
She wasn't a prophet, and I doubt if she even was a messenger.
Salam
Quote from: A Submitter on March 22, 2017, 05:59:11 AM
She wasn't a prophet, and I doubt if she even was a messenger.
Salam
What about Yahya, Yusuf, Ishaaq and Sulayman? Are they all prophets and messengers?
Sura Al 3imraan
إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلَائِكَةُ يَا مَرْيَمُ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ يُبَشِّرُكِ بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ اسْمُهُ الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَجِيهًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ وَمِنَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ ﴿٤٥﴾
3.45. when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the anoinnted, 3Isa, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near.
Here we are told that a word from God, whose name is the anointed 3isa ibnu Maryam? Tht is, the name of the word is 3isa Ibnu Maryam, 3isa is a word from God, not that he speaks words of God, but he himself is a word from God. That is what the Qur'an literally says.
Then we have, sura 19
فَكُلِي وَاشْرَبِي وَقَرِّي عَيْنًا ۖ فَإِمَّا تَرَيِنَّ مِنَ الْبَشَرِ أَحَدًا فَقُولِي إِنِّي نَذَرْتُ لِلرَّحْمَـٰنِ صَوْمًا فَلَنْ أُكَلِّمَ الْيَوْمَ إِنسِيًّا ﴿٢٦﴾ فَأَتَتْ بِهِ قَوْمَهَا تَحْمِلُهُ ۖ قَالُوا يَا مَرْيَمُ لَقَدْ جِئْتِ شَيْئًا فَرِيًّا ﴿٢٧﴾ يَا أُخْتَ هَارُونَ مَا كَانَ أَبُوكِ امْرَأَ سَوْءٍ وَمَا كَانَتْ أُمُّكِ بَغِيًّا ﴿٢٨﴾ فَأَشَارَتْ إِلَيْهِ ۖ قَالُوا كَيْفَ نُكَلِّمُ مَن كَانَ فِي الْمَهْدِ صَبِيًّا
Sura 19 Maryam :
Then cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee, (24) And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee. (25) So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal. (26) Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. (27) O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot. (28) Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy? (29)
So, he, 3isa ibnu Maryam himself is the word announced. It is not the words he might say, those are apart and subject for other reflections, but he himself is the word. Which word? That is what we have to understand, that and 3isa's doings are the aya that he and Maryam are jointly.
To understand that word, we do not need to make very strenuous intellectual exercises, we just have to put ourselves there, in the event. She is silent, she does not answer, when si is accosted requiring explanations, and we are questionning ourselves and eager to know, what has she done?, with whom? how could she?... She, following the voice?s recommendations, keeps silent and points to the small child: the child is the word of God. The child is her word, the word of God she brings to the world. The answer she has to give.
And in later ayas we are told that the child was not begotten by God. Rather (like every child and everything), he is there because God says ?be? and it is. Going further asking questions is questionning God, and the answer God has for those questions is that every newborn is there because He kep it inside a woman, like when in 4.34 it isaid
?
فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّـهُ ۚ
? and the good, devout women keepers for the ocult that God kept?
Maryam, like every mother in the world kept what God kept, and the creature that was born of her is the word from God that obviates for anybody to question any woman in such circumstances or for any woman, whether with known husband or not, to owe any explanation to anybody. Her keeping what God kept is between her and God, what is born of what God kept and she kept is between her and God. Womanood, motherhood is a property of God, direct, not through any male, not through any pubic authority. God?s , Rahmaan, rahiim, sets clear His direct relitionship and protection of the arham (wombs), and does not give anybody any rights on wht He keeps for Himself.
That is the reason why there is so much denial to acknowledge Maryam a as a prophet. Her terrible message must be ignored at whatever cost. If she gets out of the comfortable status as the best woman and virgin, she will become the devil.
But one thing is certain, whoever does that, deny, he or she does not have a problem with men or with women, he or she has a problem with God. A very big one.
As a side question:
Would this sura 19 mean something for those who follow the 19 numerical reading?
Salaam
Peace Imran,
Thank you so much for your concern but thanks God i am intelligent and independent enough to build up my own understandings. That is one of the reasons we all are here. Me too.
Verbs dont change meaning if the subject is femenine.
Now look at the following:
Quote 1:
إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلَائِكَةُ (...) إِنَّ اللَّهَ يبشرك بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ
Behold! The angels said: Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him.
Quote 2:
فَنَادَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ
أَنَّ اللَّهَ يبشرك (...) مُصَدِّقًا بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنَ اللَّهِ
The angels said: Allah gives you good tidings (...) conforming a word from Allah
In one if the cases the addresee was a woman, and she is not considered a messenger. In the other case the addressee is a man and he is considered a messenger.
Can you tell me who is who and why one is a messenger and the other is not?
Quote from: A Submitter on March 21, 2017, 03:46:11 PM
What are you talking about?
5 in a road? :yay:
I am so proud of you :wow
Next time we will try "providing arguments beyond "i said so" " :welcome:
If Maryam was not beloved of God beyond all imagination, one would be tempted to feel pity for her. Hers and his son's message going by like if it was nothing, and many ears wanting to run away from it and hiding it behind pretty virginities and pinkwashed in ever so pious description of her as the best of women, which is not much since any man is away ahead of Maryam in so far as he dispatches her assigning her her grade before humans and God...
No wonder the world is going the way it is. It may be the time to
do away with this one and raise a new one.
Salaam
Huruf,
However, in the sectarian interpretation of Quran it calls her chaste and that she was chosen of among all women.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 22, 2017, 02:58:48 AM
....no after riajal,,, lets carry on then...
Peace, be careful with رجال rijālun (3+ e.g. can apply to 1 man + 99 women) use context.
Quote from: aries on March 22, 2017, 07:07:09 AM
Peace Imran,
Thank you so much for your concern but thanks God i am intelligent and independent enough to build up my own understandings. That is one of the reasons we all are here. Me too.
Verbs dont change meaning if the subject is femenine.
Now look at the following:
Quote 1:
إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلَائِكَةُ (...) إِنَّ اللَّهَ يبشرك بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ
Behold! The angels said: Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him.
Quote 2:
فَنَادَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ
أَنَّ اللَّهَ يبشرك (...) مُصَدِّقًا بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنَ اللَّهِ
The angels said: Allah gives you good tidings (...) conforming a word from Allah
In one if the cases the addresee was a woman, and she is not considered a messenger. In the other case the addressee is a man and he is considered a messenger.
Can you tell me who is who and why one is a messenger and the other is not?
thats what i asked from you, we have finish our understanding of nabi according to the previous post...
so due to that defination , if mof recieved a revelation from God , he is a nabi too...
we are talking about messenger(rasool), so gentle lady , solve this puzzle for me , if you already know what is the defination of messenger as per scripture? same like nabi...
then we will discuss about it..
if you guys are asking about my understanding of messenger and prophet i already declare something in my post here...
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609251.msg402421#msg402421 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609251.msg402421#msg402421)
from my point of view , she can be a prophet(nabi) of God and can b a messenger(rasool) of God...
from traditional point of view messenger have some different meanings thats what we are actually discussing..
my debate is not on gender based but on the understanding of nabi and rasool...... becoz there is another character by name in quran mr
luqman , people are not still unanimous about him either he was a prophet or messenger.. or just a normal character of history...
now i bring this character inside the thread just not to confuse on gender debate... as you clearly see i have not any issue in accepting her a messenger or prophet , but the problem i have in differentiating between prophet and messengers as per the lens of secterian or non secterian understanding...
God bless you...
Quote from: Bender on March 22, 2017, 04:01:57 AM
Do you think Meryem was speech-impaired (not sure if this is the correct term)?
i think you should apply this term to moses, lol
Quote from: imrankhawaja on March 22, 2017, 12:44:45 PM
thats what i asked from you, we have finish our understanding of nabi according to the previous post...
so due to that defination , if mof recieved a revelation from God , he is a nabi too...
we are talking about messenger(rasool), so gentle lady , solve this puzzle for me , if you already know what is the defination of messenger as per scripture? same like nabi...
then we will discuss about it..
if you guys are asking about my understanding of messenger and prophet i already declare something in my post here...
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609251.msg402421#msg402421 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609251.msg402421#msg402421)
from my point of view , she can be a prophet(nabi) of God and can b a messenger(rasool) of God...
from traditional point of view messenger have some different meanings thats what we are actually discussing..
my debate is not on gender based but on the understanding of nabi and rasool...... becoz there is another character by name in quran mr luqman , people are not still unanimous about him either he was a prophet or messenger.. or just a normal character of history...
now i bring this character inside the thread just not to confuse on gender debate... as you clearly see i have not any issue in accepting her a messenger or prophet , but the problem i have in differentiating between prophet and messengers as per the lens of secterian or non secterian understanding...
God bless you...
Red: Oh I did not get into the definition at all in my previous post, I was just pointing out that women are not out of prophethood and that only prejudice would affirm such a thing. It is not the first time I see a verb changing meaning because of its subject being a woman or a man >:( So why "revelation" to a man and ohhh we have a prophet and the same verb is "inspiration" for a woman and she is not. I was not states although that such is my understanding of nabi.
I am so sorry but I deduced you were saying only men can be prophets or messengers. I know you will forgive me ;)
As you I don't see a clear correlation between "recieving a scripture" (in the traditional sense) and being prophet. Actually right now my understanding is like yours... But there must be also a difference between nabiyina and anbiyaa that i never checked (you all are welcome to help here if you have :peace:) and I think it will be important
Have a greaaaaaaaaaaat day :sun:
Quote from: aries on March 22, 2017, 01:08:51 PM
I am so sorry but I deduced you were saying only men can be prophets or messengers. I know you will forgive me ;)
As you I don't see a clear correlation between "recieving a scripture" (in the traditional sense) and being prophet. Actually right now my understanding is like yours... But there must be also a difference between nabiyina and anbiyaa that i never checked (you all are welcome to help here if you have :peace:) and I think it will be important
BLUE ooh common gentle lady you really dnt need to ask any forgivness ... from me... we all here for the same purpose so i consider you as my friendly colleage....
but i consider sister huruf as a strict teacher who always punish boys and spare girls in the class ... lol just kidding... and due to her seniority she hardly laugh , i dnt know why...
bold part... i think we need more veiws on this thing , bender, wakas, SC , layth anybody can give their thoughts in it...
by defualt messenger is automatically a prophet too... ( becoz he already cleared the revelation/inspiration/wahi stage)
then the wahi suppose to spread in the nation by the command of God...
your red partdnt worry , maryum is just before muhammad so that rule only apply to the ones who comes after muhammad,, as the
seal of prophethood... ;) i think due too this reason i m unable to declare me as a prophet.. hope u got it...
Nobody has provided any proof to backup their claim that Maryam was a prophet.
Should we conclude then?
Salam
Quote from: A Submitter on March 22, 2017, 02:21:48 PM
Nobody has provided any proof to backup their claim that Maryam was a prophet.
Should we conclude then?
Salam
brother forget about maryum right now... we are discussing the law that make a person messenger or prophet...
when you will understand the law then its easy to catagorise who was who...
thats why i bring luqman inside the discussion , its not a gender debate.. its the debate of prophethood and messenger ship...
even the nabi word interpretated as prophet which is not a best defiantion ... a prophet lingually a person who prophesied things ... like forecasting...
nabi = prophet is a poor defination... news giver /informer can be understood in that context...
No, Maryam is not a prophet, she is a beggar who depends on some deluded humans to be given a dignity.
This thread which hansolo intended to be fun is turning into such a sad exhibit of human ingratitude...
This thread has been locked due to the amount of personal attacks. It'll be reviewed and those responsible will be penalized. Thanks.