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General Issues / Questions => Questions/Comments on the Quran => Topic started by: fish_launcher on January 22, 2016, 11:09:57 AM

Title: On Marijuana
Post by: fish_launcher on January 22, 2016, 11:09:57 AM
Meet endocannabinoids (compression of "endegenous cannabinoids")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system

These are cannabinoids (compounds found in cannabis/marijuana) that are produced naturally by the body, especially during times of physical or mental stress.

If God prohibited cannabis for us, why did he put cannabinoids in our brain? After all, the brain states caused by smoking marijuana can be also reached naturally, on occasion. Even ingesting high levels of THC causes, by making the blood vessels dilate and lowering blood pressure, a type of sleep, accompanied by vivid dreams.

The ayah prohibiting Khamr could NOT have been referring to ALL intoxicants, because it would then, by extension, also prohibit morphine, a drug that is naturally produced in the brain during pain, exercise, orgasm, etc ("endorphin" is short for "endogenous morphine").

The body may be a temple, but these drugs are already a part of it.

Khamr could be referring to alcohol. Not wine, but brewed alcoholic beverages, which makes sense, because unlike cannabinoids or morphine, the body doesn't produce alcoholic compounds, and is poisoned by them. Combining social, economic, individual, and health factors, alcohol is the worst drug. It doesn't belong in our system.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210

Peace.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Invalid777 on January 22, 2016, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: fish_launcher on January 22, 2016, 11:09:57 AM

Khamr could be referring to alcohol.

It is quite illogical to claim that khamr is alcohol and therefore is a sin to consume.

QuoteIf a country makes alcohol completely illegal,is there any point in telling people not to drink and drive? You don't. You just tell them that consuming alcohol is forbidden and punishable by prison. So what would be the point of The GOD telling people to not drink and pray if drinking is a sin?
"O you who believe, do not go near prayer when you are intoxicated till you know what you say,(4:43)

You ask a Muslim this question and they'll quote from their hadith books that drinking is haram and that this verse above is abrogated by the hadith that bans drinking. Kufr and hypocrisy at its finest. They're indirectly implying that the laws Bukhari wrote overrides the word of The GOD(Quran). Funny right? The Quran even talks of people in paradise who pass around a glass of wine. [Quran 76:5] "Indeed, the righteous will drink from a cup of wine whose mixture is of Kafur,"

Bukhari is the lawmaker of Muslims. He decides what is haram and what is halal. He is their god.

Hence, there is no evidence to support the claim that alcohol is prohibited. This is just one of many illogical inconsistencies pushed by political and religious sectarians who like to make prohibitions.  There is no such thing as a prohibited drink, meal, limb or air particle.

Marijuana actually has a lot health benefits.
http://www.trueactivist.com/still-believe-nature-got-it-wrong-top-10-health-benefits-of-marijuana/
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on January 22, 2016, 06:41:56 PM
You are all so biased.
I wonder what covers your hearts? Is it a creation of stone or something harder still?
Beware of your own biases when approaching a topic in the Quran.

Invalid, are these the only two aayyahs that mention intoxicants in the Quran?

You have only picked two that conform with your biases instead of truly searching for complete understanding.

I don't know if you are doing it on purpose but this common amongst many members indeed.
It is saddening.
You are all becoming no different than the sectarians you look down upon. Your unanimous biases fed by the new age consensus in this forum.

Wake up brothers

Look at the following verses please

2:219
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say: ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

5:90
O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
5:91
The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxi- cants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?


Intoxicants is not only limited to alcohol but it is anything that intoxicates your body and covers your judgement hence Khmer it covers or conceals your concern for discretion and refrain.
It clouds your judgement let's say.

This includes any drug! Alcohol, marijuan, nicotine, cocaine, crack, ecstasy you name it any type of intoxicant.

Now! Pay attention to your Lord's words. He has not forbidden it at all.
But! Big BUT He has commanded you to avoid it that you may be successful.
It is obviously clear according these verses that there are some benefits BUT, BIG BUT again the harm outweighs the benefits.

Will you refrain from partaking in that which your Lord has told you to avoid?

The choice is always yours people.
Do what you will God is watching.

But don't ever try to to mock the righteous by shouting nonsense with no support.

The Quran is a Book to be taken in its entirety especially when trying to focus in on a specific topic.
You choose to very biasly analyze two. Disappointing really....

You can do better brothers!

Some of us would have us turn to pot smoking promiscuous liberitarians if it were up to them :nope:


Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Invalid777 on January 22, 2016, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: HP_TECH on January 22, 2016, 06:41:56 PM
You are all so biased.
I wonder what covers your hearts? Is it a creation of stone or something harder still?
Beware of your own biases when approaching a topic in the Quran.

Invalid, are these the only two aayyahs that mention intoxicants in the Quran?

You have only picked two that conform with your biases instead of truly searching for complete understanding.

I don't know if you are doing it on purpose but this common amongst many members indeed.
It is saddening.
You are all becoming no different than the sectarians you look down upon. Your unanimous biases fed by the new age consensus in this forum.

Wake up brothers

Look at the following verses please

2:219
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say: ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

5:90
O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
5:91
The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxi- cants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?


Intoxicants is not only limited to alcohol but it is anything that intoxicates your body and covers your judgement hence Khmer it covers or conceals your concern for discretion and refrain.
It clouds your judgement let's say.

This includes any drug! Alcohol, marijuan, nicotine, cocaine, crack, ecstasy you name it any type of intoxicant.

Now! Pay attention to your Lord's words. He has not forbidden it at all.
But! Big BUT He has commanded you to avoid it that you may be successful.
It is obviously clear according these verses that there are some benefits BUT, BIG BUT again the harm outweighs the benefits.

Will you refrain from partaking in that which your Lord has told you to avoid?

The choice is always yours people.
Do what you will God is watching.

But don't ever try to to mock the righteous by shouting nonsense with no support.

The Quran is a Book to be taken in its entirety especially when trying to focus in on a specific topic.
You choose to very biasly analyze two. Disappointing really....

You can do better brothers!

Some of us would have us turn to pot smoking promiscuous liberitarians if it were up to them :nope:

My point was not to promote the consumption of intoxicants but rather expose the illogical reasons sectarians use to create a list of prohibitions. Brother, drinking 5 liters of coke is no different to getting drunk. Your sugar levels will go through the roof, your internal organs will shut down and you will die. Is there any point in banning coke? Of course not. It is your choice. What happens when you eat too much fast-food? obesity, heart disease and death. Should fast-food then be banned? Of course not.

It is your choice to either destroy yourself or become a better human being, physically, psychologically and spiritually.  This exact same advice is given to us in Quran. Quran does not prohibit you from eating or drinking anything. Quran is sound advice to sound individuals. Only sound/self-aware individuals can make use of this piece of knowledge(Quran).

Today, government has adopted a lot from religion. Blind faith labelled as patriotism, holy war labelled as "defensive" war and apostasy labelled as treason. Government now dictates what you can eat, drink and think. You are told what to think and what not to think and in some parts of the world, they tell you how many children to have. They have put up a list of prohibitions and punish you for consuming it just like religion does.

We were all created with free will. The choices we make has a direct impact on not just ourselves but also life around us. The future depends on the inputs we make now. You form your future.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to choice. Quran gives advice on how to make some of these choices. The religion of Islam doesn't see it that way. A totalitarian tyranical system that makes prohibitions. There are no choices in Islam. It does not appreciate free will. Go into sheep mode or get executed for breaking the rules. No critical thinking hence no choices. The blind leading the blind.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: hawk99 on January 22, 2016, 09:18:48 PM
Peace, I agree with HP_TECH, because I live in the US, the verses are quite easy to understand,
I know about intoxicants first hand, being sober is a no brainer if you want to be successful
as per Quran, on the other hand, things used for medicinal purposes are a great help
hence not banned as per Quran.



                      :peace:


                 


                         
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on January 23, 2016, 12:35:13 PM
Quote from: HP_TECH on January 22, 2016, 06:41:56 PM
You are all so biased.
I wonder what covers your hearts? Is it a creation of stone or something harder still?
Beware of your own biases when approaching a topic in the Quran.

Invalid, are these the only two aayyahs that mention intoxicants in the Quran?

You have only picked two that conform with your biases instead of truly searching for complete understanding.

I don't know if you are doing it on purpose but this common amongst many members indeed.
It is saddening.
You are all becoming no different than the sectarians you look down upon. Your unanimous biases fed by the new age consensus in this forum.

Wake up brothers

Look at the following verses please

2:219
They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say: ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say: ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

5:90
O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
5:91
The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxi- cants and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?


Intoxicants is not only limited to alcohol but it is anything that intoxicates your body and covers your judgement hence Khmer it covers or conceals your concern for discretion and refrain.
It clouds your judgement let's say.

This includes any drug! Alcohol, marijuan, nicotine, cocaine, crack, ecstasy you name it any type of intoxicant.

Now! Pay attention to your Lord's words. He has not forbidden it at all.
But! Big BUT He has commanded you to avoid it that you may be successful.
It is obviously clear according these verses that there are some benefits BUT, BIG BUT again the harm outweighs the benefits.

Will you refrain from partaking in that which your Lord has told you to avoid?

The choice is always yours people.
Do what you will God is watching.

But don't ever try to to mock the righteous by shouting nonsense with no support.

The Quran is a Book to be taken in its entirety especially when trying to focus in on a specific topic.
You choose to very biasly analyze two. Disappointing really....

You can do better brothers!

Some of us would have us turn to pot smoking promiscuous liberitarians if it were up to them :nope:

question alcohol is toxic it kills plants.
is thc toxic? and does an intoxicant have to be toxic, not just by content but by amount as well?(poisonings such as water poisoning , your lifeblood containing too much water and thus being coming diluted beyond use)

there's always that whole no one has died from smoking too much pot, and i haven't heard of THC being used to perserve other foods which i assumes is not damaging them but it does stick to fats so your body is storing thc for some reason if it's in you for a month.

alcohol is used in hormonal regulation fats are sterol (steriods), and hormones are in this catergory biologically alcohol in your diet increase your "libido" (run by alcohol consuming lipids [fats] in your body), this alcohol is in micro amounts like in artifical flavorings, breads, and cakes (things with extracts in them , extracts being 35% alcohol by fda regulation if it's less than this it can't be called an alcohol just a flavoring)
As an abrahamic monotheist i follow what's in the quran alcohol is an abomination of satan's handywork, yet it's everywhere in colognes soaps, shampoos, and deodorants, and one the breathe and bodies of the people all around us, and don't forget pumping out of their pores. but in-toxic-ants things toxic inside you is implied, caffine changes the way you think, eating more or less healthy chages the way you think but soming like advil or the pain killers derived from vemons (in some cases) are not thought of.

to simplify this i spend a lot of time smoking pot but my interpretation of intoxicant are simply poisonous things, is marijuana even a good pesticide that we might think of it as "toxic"?
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on January 23, 2016, 01:54:59 PM
Fye

Pot has a lot of negative long term effects on your cognitive skills.
Also because it is an illegal drug, much research on its effects has not been conducted.
There are implications however that it may be more severe than previously thought.
I would not advise anyone to any kind of drugs.

We all have our shortcomings and I am not judging you for what you do. Health wise speaking smoking anything will have lasting impact on your lungs and heart despise the myths that are propagated around the weed culture.

It is also quite addictive despite the myth. Not as addictive as other drugs, but you will still have a hard time quitting like with cigarettes.

It is ridiculous for you abstain from alcohol and then smoke pot. They're both intoxicants fye

I find it a contradiction to indulge in set activities because:

If you spend a lot of time smoking pot, how do you perform your salat?

Do you approach it while your high?

Do you try to read while you're high?

Are you high right now?

I can kind of see the effects of it in your scrambled reasoning and logic

Try hard to quit brother  :muscle:
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: hawk99 on January 23, 2016, 02:19:51 PM
brother fye why do you smoke weed?



            :peace:
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: tarmo on February 01, 2016, 12:12:30 PM
My view on the subject is that intoxicants are not recommended in Quran because they are something which covers peoples understanding.
The verse 4:43 points it out.

4:43 O you who believe, do not come near the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. ...

Alcohol makes people stupid.
Psychedelics as pot and others enhance the understanding (in moderate doses -  too much pot or too often dont have this effect).
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: tarmo on February 05, 2016, 06:34:46 PM
One more observation about intoxicants, they make people blundering

15:72   By your life, they are in their intoxication, blundering.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on February 16, 2016, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: HP_TECH on January 23, 2016, 01:54:59 PM
Fye

Pot has a lot of negative long term effects on your cognitive skills.
Also because it is an illegal drug, much research on its effects has not been conducted.
There are implications however that it may be more severe than previously thought.
I would not advise anyone to any kind of drugs.

We all have our shortcomings and I am not judging you for what you do. Health wise speaking smoking anything will have lasting impact on your lungs and heart despise the myths that are propagated around the weed culture.

It is also quite addictive despite the myth. Not as addictive as other drugs, but you will still have a hard time quitting like with cigarettes.

It is ridiculous for you abstain from alcohol and then smoke pot. They're both intoxicants fye

I find it a contradiction to indulge in set activities because:

If you spend a lot of time smoking pot, how do you perform your salat?

Do you approach it while your high?

Do you try to read while you're high?

Are you high right now?

I can kind of see the effects of it in your scrambled reasoning and logic

Try hard to quit brother  :muscle:
whoa not bumpin drugs or anything I'm just saying one kills plants and the other simply is a plant

an my belief is drugs are in everything well alcohol is in everything from candy to natural and artificial flavourings even bread has alcohol in it. whether I smoke weed or not it it's the same thing my logic and reasoning is "everythings round" things can be complete even while we don't know them and so is my approach to life.

why is smoking weed bad? caffine is considered good in the mornings but it's addictive.
and right intoxicants make people make mistakes but it's alcohol. after avoiding alcohol in most foods I do feel more like all mistakes are made on purpose but it's the alcohol acting on peoples minds in small amounts. alcohol like pot or whatever people call it, has a psychoactive effect on your mind until it's out of your system.
avoid everything, life's livable as it is you shouldn't need a joint or a cup of coffee.

once again sorry for promoting things of such nature I just wanted to be pro weed in my reply

has any one studied psychoactive compounds and how they work on peoples minds? like how caffine wakes people up in the morning and how a cup of milk and help you sleep, I really just think people are what they eat and drink.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on February 17, 2016, 06:31:22 AM
Quote from: fye on February 16, 2016, 03:40:25 PM
whoa not bumpin drugs or anything I'm just saying one kills plants and the other simply is a plant

an my belief is drugs are in everything well alcohol is in everything from candy to natural and artificial flavourings even bread has alcohol in it. whether I smoke weed or not it it's the same thing my logic and reasoning is "everythings round" things can be complete even while we don't know them and so is my approach to life.

why is smoking weed bad? caffine is considered good in the mornings but it's addictive.
and right intoxicants make people make mistakes but it's alcohol. after avoiding alcohol in most foods I do feel more like all mistakes are made on purpose but it's the alcohol acting on peoples minds in small amounts. alcohol like pot or whatever people call it, has a psychoactive effect on your mind until it's out of your system.
avoid everything, life's livable as it is you shouldn't need a joint or a cup of coffee.

once again sorry for promoting things of such nature I just wanted to be pro weed in my reply

has any one studied psychoactive compounds and how they work on peoples minds? like how caffine wakes people up in the morning and how a cup of milk and help you sleep, I really just think people are what they eat and drink.

Your whole argument is completely flawed because you assume that the word intoxicant is describing strictly in the archaic sense a Toxic poisonous substance. Hence why you claim it kills plants.
Not all poisons and toxic chemicals kill some just affect your physiological state. Think about pain killers, from Tylenol, to morphin, they are all "poisons" or "toxic" in a sense.

Then you go on a long rant about alcohol in candy. That has nothing to do with khamri
FYI fye, there is a world of difference between what is considered alcohols in a scientific sense (chemistry)and alcohol as an intoxicating beverage. There are alcohols used for all sorts of things, take rubbing alcohol that is isopropyl alcohol. In organic chemistry chains of carbons(-C-C-C) that have hydroxyl groups(-OH) attached to them, hence carboxyls(-C-C-OH) are considered "alcohols".
These carboxyls groups are even in DNA bases and are essential for replication reactions.
THESE ARE NOT INTOXICANTS!! They do not cause intoxication! This is basic knowledge bruh.
Your trying to defend pot is making you sound silly.
That's why your whole argument about candy and etcetera having alcohol is completely ridiculous.


When it comes to the word Khamri and intoxicant:

I strongly advise you to use a dictionary.

I strongly advise you to check what the word al khamri means

I strongly advise to check further the meaning of the root kha mim ra
Use the PRL website or Lane or any other Classic Arabic Lexicon

Look at PRL for example:




Kha-Miim-Ra = cover/conceal/veil, becoming changed/altered from a former state/condition, mixed/mingled/incorporated/blended, intoxication/wine/grapes, make-up, any intoxicating thing that clouds/obscures the intellect, come upon secretly/unexpectedly, crowding of people, odour of perfume, women's head cover, man's turban, a covering,  something fermented/matured.

khamr n.fem. 2:219, 5:90, 5:91, 12:36, 12:41, 47:15

khumur n. masc. pl. 24:31

...and let them draw/set/cast (walyadribna) with their veils/covers (bikhumurihinna) over (AAala) their breasts/bosom (juyoobihinna)... [24:31]

Lane gives some examples: ?the dwelling was hidden by the trees?, ?he concealed his testimony?, "She (a woman) applied KhaMaRat as a linament, to beautify her complexion.".

"KhiMaR [A woman's muffler, or veil with which she covers her head and the lower part of her face, leaving exposed only the eyes and part or whole of the nose, such is the KhMR worn in the present day: a kind of veil which in Turkish is called Yashmak] a woman's head-covering."

LL, V2, p: 443, 444, 445, 446  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=xmr




NOTICE how it says nothing of poison, chemical or toxic substance. Intoxicants is a totally different word fye.


What most people who can pick up a dictionary/lexicon will understand from Khmari or intoxicant is a substance that which clouds or obscures the intellect, or a substance that causes intoxication


Look what the definition of intoxicant is:

intoxicant (ɪnˈtɒksɪkənt)
noun
anything that causes intoxication
adj
causing intoxication


Next fye use a dictionary to see what intoxication is in "scientific" terms:

intoxication in Medicine Expand
intoxication in?tox?i?ca?tion (ĭn-tŏk'sĭ-kā'shən)
n.

The pathological/ physiological state produced by a drug, serum, alcohol, or any toxic substance; poisoning.





Finally please re-read the Ayaas related for your own good


(2:219:3) l-khamri   [the] intoxicants   يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ
(5:90:5) l-khamru   the intoxicants   إِنَّمَا الْخَمْرُ وَالْمَيْسِرُ وَالْأَنْصَابُ وَالْأَزْلَامُ رِجْسٌ مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ
(5:91:10) l-khamri   intoxicants   إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَنْ يُوقِعَ بَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاءَ فِي الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Man of Faith on February 17, 2016, 12:17:51 PM
The issue is craving for earthly matters.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: spodacus on February 19, 2016, 02:43:07 AM
Quote from: Man of Faith on February 17, 2016, 12:17:51 PM
The issue is craving for earthly matters.

Salam, yes, the issue is the craving of earthly matter and its deterrence from the worship of God, which should be priority #1.

Smoking pot, drinking alcohol, overeating junk food, whatever it is. You have to ask yourself what void you have inside you that you are trying to fill. And then ask yourself why you refuse to use Allah to fill that void.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: clashncruz on February 20, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
Khumer could refer to lying or concealing the truth as well as wine/strongly fermented drinks (date/grape wine in those times). Indeed, when people are drunk they often conceal or exaggerate the truth (not just intoxicated drunk, but drunk with power or fame as well).

This verse of course does not say "intoxicants", this is a modern promoted translation; all older translations will say wine/fermented drinks. It clearly says Khumer (date/grape wine; and/or concealing the truth), it is a nuanced word with double meaning, like modern puns in English, the Qur'an is full of this type of language.

Of course if there were to be verses outlawing marijuana or opium it would have been easy, as their use was widespread during the time of the revelation of Qur'an. However, they are specifically not prohibited because of their medical qualities. Indeed, al-kohol, or alcohol, was invented by Muslim and Jewish physicians/alchemists who were discovering how to distill these same herbal medicines that had been in use for thousands of years. Alcohol was meant as a sterilizing and extracting agent for herbal medicines and surgical procedures. It was never meant to be drank!

Anyway, I would just remind people on this forum that millions upon millions of people daily receive medical treatments, procedures, and prescribed doses that involve specifically these two natural plants, Cannabis and Opium.

I will also remind you of God's own words:

10:57 O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.
10:58 Say, "In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy - in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate."
10:59 Say, "Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of which you have made [some] lawful and [some] unlawful?" Say, "Has Allah permitted you [to do so], or do you invent [something] about Allah ?"
10:60 And what will be the supposition of those who invent falsehood about Allah on the Day of Resurrection? Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of them are not grateful."

Salaam,

Clash.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on February 20, 2016, 01:32:20 PM
Quote from: clashncruz on February 20, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
Khumer could refer to lying or concealing the truth as well as wine/strongly fermented drinks (date/grape wine in those times). Indeed, when people are drunk they often conceal or exaggerate the truth (not just intoxicated drunk, but drunk with power or fame as well).

This verse of course does not say "intoxicants", this is a modern promoted translation; all older translations will say wine/fermented drinks. It clearly says Khumer (date/grape wine; and/or concealing the truth), it is a nuanced word with double meaning, like modern puns in English, the Qur'an is full of this type of language.

Of course if there were to be verses outlawing marijuana or opium it would have been easy, as their use was widespread during the time of the revelation of Qur'an. However, they are specifically not prohibited because of their medical qualities. Indeed, al-kohol, or alcohol, was invented by Muslim and Jewish physicians/alchemists who were discovering how to distill these same herbal medicines that had been in use for thousands of years. Alcohol was meant as a sterilizing and extracting agent for herbal medicines and surgical procedures. It was never meant to be drank!

Anyway, I would just remind people on this forum that millions upon millions of people daily receive medical treatments, procedures, and prescribed doses that involve specifically these two natural plants, Cannabis and Opium.

I will also remind you of God's own words:

10:57 O mankind, there has to come to you instruction from your Lord and healing for what is in the breasts and guidance and mercy for the believers.
10:58 Say, "In the bounty of Allah and in His mercy - in that let them rejoice; it is better than what they accumulate."
10:59 Say, "Have you seen what Allah has sent down to you of provision of which you have made [some] lawful and [some] unlawful?" Say, "Has Allah permitted you [to do so], or do you invent [something] about Allah ?"
10:60 And what will be the supposition of those who invent falsehood about Allah on the Day of Resurrection? Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of them are not grateful."

Salaam,

Clash.

Allah has said
O you who believe! Verily the intoxicants and [the] games of chance and (sacrifices at) altars and divining arrows (are an) abomination from (the) work (of) the Shaitaan, so avoid it so that you may (be) successful.

He gives specific instructions concerning intoxicants. Yes intoxicants not wine.
Those are two different words clash alkhamri or khamru is structurally, contextually different than khamran.

Noun
(2:219:3) l-khamri   [the] intoxicants   يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ
(5:90:5) l-khamru   the intoxicants   إِنَّمَا الْخَمْرُ وَالْمَيْسِرُ وَالْأَنْصَابُ وَالْأَزْلَامُ رِجْسٌ مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ
(5:91:10) l-khamri   intoxicants   إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَنْ يُوقِعَ بَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاءَ فِي الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ
(12:36:10) khamran   wine   قَالَ أَحَدُهُمَا إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَعْصِرُ خَمْرًا
(12:41:7) khamran   wine   يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَمَّا أَحَدُكُمَا فَيَسْقِي رَبَّهُ خَمْرًا
(47:15:20) khamrin   wine

Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: clashncruz on February 20, 2016, 01:41:04 PM
Perhaps no one knows the true meaning then HP, as many translators seem to have differing translations.

Just take the first instance of "al khamri" 2:219

Sahih International: They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought.

Pickthall: They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: that which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect.

Yusuf Ali: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-

Shakir: They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder

Muhammad Sarwar: (Muhammad), they ask you about wine and gambling. Tell them that there is great sin in them. Although they have benefits for men, the sin therein is far greater than the benefit. They ask you about what they should give for the cause of God. Tell them, "Let it be what you can spare." This is how God explains for you His guidance so that perhaps you will think

Mohsin Khan: They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."

Arberry: They will question thee concerning wine, and arrow-shuffling. Say: 'In both is heinous sin; and uses for men, but the sin in them is more heinous than the usefulness.' They will question thee concerning what they should expend. Say: 'The abundance.' So God makes clear His signs to you; haply you will reflect;

1 out of 7 is translated as "intoxicants"

4 out of 7 as "wine

1 out of 7 as "strong drink"

1 out of 7 as "alcoholic drink"

So how do you come to your conclusion that it means all intoxicants HP? I am not being condescending, I really do want to know your methods.

What is the best way to resolve this issue between alkhamri and khamran?

I agree with you that those are the listed instances of it in the Qur'an as well (6 times), and once as a context for head covers:
"(24:31:16) bikhumurihinna   their head covers   وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ"

Salaam,

Clash.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on February 20, 2016, 04:08:05 PM
Hi Clash,

You portray a very deceiving account of how al khamri is translated. Corpus Quran does not have all the translations available.

According to a good source islamawakaned.com 23/48 translators chose intoxicants for al khamri
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm
That's 47.91% nearly half of translators have chosen intoxicants over wine and alcohol.
A couple of the 23 have picked both and one has chosen to keep al khamri transliterated.

We can see that a huge portion of translators are choosing intoxicants. This is telling information.

Although it is statistically implicating, it doesn't truly concern us.

We don't rely on traditional translators, rather word for word translations that avoid incorporating bias from a translator selecting words that resonate specifically with his linguistic style and interpretation.
You get me? That is why we use corpusquran.com for the word for word section not the quick translations. So we can analyze the morphology of the words and concurrences in the Quran and so forth.


There is no issue for us to "resolve" between intoxicants and wine. Allah has explained already.
It is your heart perhaps that is refusing to comprehend, stubbornly.
Check all those 6 instances and if you will re read the chapters. That's always good.

You will see the first three are admonitions from Khamri and gambling for the believers.
While the other three are about pressing grapes which produces wine and giving wine to drink.

I have pressed grapes before and fermented the grape juice into wine. It increase in alcohol level as you ferment it over a long period of time.
What's worse is distilling the alcohol from dried skins of the grapes. This method of distillation is what generates liquors and so forth.

Mind you regardless of what we are discussing.
A glass of wine with dinner is not the issue, opium used for medicinal purposes is not the issue.
The issue is those using the above as a pretense to excuse those who use them for the sole purpose of getting high or drunk. Who can calculate accurately what the exact dosage of wine they can intake or what the exact amount of pot they can smoke before they get drunk or high? That's a very difficult thing to do if not impossible.

The point is you don't need to drink wine nor smoke marijuana it is a thing of leisure, that's why it is better to avoid it unless it is absolutely necessary. You mess up and get too drunk or high now you cannot uphold salat.



Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: clashncruz on February 20, 2016, 11:51:54 PM
Nice source HP, thank you for providing it to the forum, I will try to use this in future research; tabarak'Allah.

First, I agree with you HP about people abusing medicine, and the prohibitions on drinking and approaching prayers inebriated.

However according to your source, indeed as I figured, the majority of scholars translate the word as wine/strong drink/alcohol, 33 of the translations listed there. While only 21 instances of "intoxicant", and even those instances are mostly in the "Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works" category of translations.

Are you suggesting we should take the less agreed upon translation and usage here?

That being said, we must also ask the critical sociopolitical questions of our day: Why would someone try to change this traditionally-held meaning (alcoholic beverages) now in the modern age? What political or economic agenda is afoot?

I would really suggest critically thinking about why our current laws, specifically against Cannabis, were introduced in the first place (hint: look up the oil industry, cotton vs. hemp, chemical industry, paper industry, pharmaceutical industry, alcohol industry etc.) There is more to it than meets the eye.

I am not advocating for people to go and "mess" themselves up HP, nor to not perform salaat, not at all, please; I am simply stating that Allah has very clearly prohibited a few things, and has clearly encouraged or commanded much more, with much leeway in between. One thing Allah has prohibited though is other people prohibiting things that Allah has not clearly prohibited. So I take the issue of declaring things "haram" to be a very heavy decision; similar to trying to declare someone an unbeliever or enemy of Islam.

"Ask them to call their witnesses who will testify that God has made certain things unlawful. Even if they do testify, do not testify with them. Do not follow the desires of those who have rejected Our revelations and the people who do not believe in the Day of Judgment; and who hold others as equal (in worship) with their Lord." 6:150

I only ask you to take this into consideration, we should not be so quick to condemn others. We have no idea how Allah will judge.

Salaam,

Clash.




Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on February 21, 2016, 01:40:46 AM
Dude literally nowhere have I said anything is forbidden or prohibited. That word has come from you alone buddy.

I am only presenting you God's command to avoid it in the Quran.

We know something has to be avoided, I have not stated it is prohibited, yet it seems you are not agreeing on what this thing to be avoided is.

You are stressing too much on translators. You have your own ability to assess meaning of words by checking word for word translations which are more accurate. I use islamawakaned.com to check the literal word by word translation not the other translations. So bringing up the translators is not relevant. I brought it up to show you that you improperly portrayed the proportion of translators choosing intoxicants. Bro 21/54 is still ~39% and that's if you are being accurate.
Check 5:90-91  it'll be ~48%.
Regardless these are still considerable amount of people and I don't give merit to most of those translators who then translate 4:34 as strike them, but that's a whole other argument.

No matter how you feel the root for khamri conveys an intoxicating substance that clouds the mind or intellect. Both alcohol and drugs fit the bill, I don't know what motive YOU have for trying to exclude drugs from intoxicants.....
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: clashncruz on February 21, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Assalamu alaykum HP,

No motive brother, just that the word khumar does not seem to mean'intoxicants'; we should be consistent. It seems to mean a fermented alcoholic drink.

Why would these plants have been so prevalent throughout all of Islamic history, while alcohol was always banned?

I think it is because of the clear distinction of the word that has always existed up until recently.

As far as 4:34 and the majority of scholars using "strike/beat them"; I agree with you 100%. Again, it is important to look at the sociopolitical aspects to every issue. While Cannabis has had little to zero sociopolitical aspects until the 20th century, men's dominance over women (often physically) has had huge sociopolitical aspects to it since its inception. Thus, it is obvious to assume that the more pro-establishment (conservative) translators will always use what is a benefit to the people in power at the time. This is why understanding the politics of our day is so important, it can tell you where loyalties lie and why.

I guess what I am saying brother is this: it is important to look at Fiqh al-Waqiah in any situation.

Salaam,

Clash.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on February 21, 2016, 01:17:41 PM
May Allah send Peace and Blessings to you

What you convey makes perfect sense. Except, I am not understanding what makes you determine that intoxicant is not an accurate translation.
What is your method of assessing the meaning of al Khamri. By the way the word is not khumar just to point out.

If you check the root of khamri regardless of whether we define it as wine or intoxicant we get a sense that it is describing SOMETHING THAT CLOUDS THE MIND. Without any specific we can take this description and apply it to any such substances that cause this clouding of mind and intellect.

Tied in with the command in 4:43
O you who believe[d]! (Do) not go near the prayer while you (are) intoxicated until you know what you are saying and not (when you are) impure except (when) passing (through) a way until you have bathed. And if you are ill or on a journey or came one of you from the toilet, or you have touched the women and not you find water, then do (with) earth clean and wipe (with it) your faces and your hands. Indeed, Allah is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

Although Sakura is a different word, we get a sense that we are not to approach prayer with a fogged mind, ( if you will intoxicated)

My point is that it is not specifying what particular substance that causes the fogging hence any substance which causes this fogging of the mind should be avoided as per 5:90.

I understand your comments on sociopolitical aspects but again the translators here is of little concern.
You can check the root meaning and lexicons on your own. You will find kha mim ra conveys a substance that causes clouding of mind and intellect.


Peace

HP_TECH

Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: clashncruz on February 21, 2016, 02:46:08 PM
Peace upon you HP,

Yes, I can agree with that definition completely brother, "something that clouds the mind" and prevents your from your "salaat", and that it should be avoided at all costs. Indeed, many modern pharmaceuticals and newly discovered drugs do this exact action and they are not alcohol per se, though we would still include them among substances to avoid.

Thank you so much for you knowledge and input on this subject HP, tabarak'Allah.

Salaam,

Clash.

Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on February 25, 2016, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: clashncruz on February 21, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Assalamu alaykum HP,

No motive brother, just that the word khumar does not seem to mean'intoxicants'; we should be consistent. It seems to mean a fermented alcoholic drink.

Why would these plants have been so prevalent throughout all of Islamic history, while alcohol was always banned?

I think it is because of the clear distinction of the word that has always existed up until recently.

As far as 4:34 and the majority of scholars using "strike/beat them"; I agree with you 100%. Again, it is important to look at the sociopolitical aspects to every issue. While Cannabis has had little to zero sociopolitical aspects until the 20th century, men's dominance over women (often physically) has had huge sociopolitical aspects to it since its inception. Thus, it is obvious to assume that the more pro-establishment (conservative) translators will always use what is a benefit to the people in power at the time. This is why understanding the politics of our day is so important, it can tell you where loyalties lie and why.

I guess what I am saying brother is this: it is important to look at Fiqh al-Waqiah in any situation.

Salaam,

Clash.

see this is what I mean fermented alcohol of fermented yeast? there is alcohol in bread yeast leaves alcohol as a by product and our very bodies break everything down into sugars. our dna again is sugar 2-deoxyribose out of the nucleic acid. retardation is caused when yeast turns a dna sugar into alcohol and CO2. this I have no base on except from reading biology books like books for dummies. I live in wine country so I kinda see this a lot.
yeast can eat any sugar which is the same sugar in just longer chains poly-sacchrides (poly means many) (saccharide means sugar) (mono means one like in Abrahamic monotheism).
does anyone agree with this? you can eat pot and take Tylenol and advil while pregenant but you sip alcohol you better hope all the yeast is dead or you babys in special ed?
also I've notice women with yeast infections are more annoying then usual but I don't think that's something to look into so much as the word in toxicant, intoxicate- to make toxic toxic means..... it means more than poison or poisonous theres a science and system or process being explained by the word toxic. like biology doesn't just mean it's definition and you know everything about the subject.

Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on February 25, 2016, 10:08:27 AM
maybe yeast is just bad even if you put yeast in sweet water it will make alcohol under accidental conditions
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on March 03, 2016, 11:08:46 PM
marijuana is one of the curse of our new generation,,, as we know it makes u lazy and it is addictive as well ,, its better to stay away,, fromall the alcoholic things as well and intoxicants,, we should be loyal and hinest and truth is this .. God is not in the favour of to consume these things it will leads towards unlawful things that are forbidden for us.. so listen to the most wise ,, although its not a sin or haram but still it cant be good or useful thing disadvantages are more so as a wise person we should try to avoid it as much as we can,,, I m not pperfect though.. but after researching five years I decided not to promote intoxicants  as oral use....
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 04, 2016, 04:16:36 PM
Sorry late post I do owe an answer I smoke weed because I like the elevation and how it separates me from "the crowd" I also eat weed too brownies and tea. It was one of those things we all do to make ourselves more acceptable to the kafirs.
Some people blaspheme some people fornicate some people pretend they know nothing of ALLAH or refuse to call the kafirun kafirs.
Some don't wear hijab others simply say and agree to things they don't believe.
Simply I smoke weed because I don't find it to be unlawful how many herbs and growing roots do we use as medicines? Even things like snake venom are synth into pills to kill pain.

Alcohol kills plants It's an obvious rot and it's in everything soap shampoo vinegar, bread, detergent and on the necks of those people passing by.
It stops you from thinking clearly it stops human brings from the telepathic way we had before we formed language.
Literally of you cut all alcohol from your diet and daily lives you will have a knowledge that makes you feel as thou you knew everything there is to know. Artifical flavours and extracts are alcohol based too.

Can anything except alcohol cause humanity such lost?
Leave weed and tea to people who chose to consume such usuary and alcohol are purely destructive.

It's an abomination of satan's handiwork ( does that mean he made it himself? Or is it something the enemies of mankind would give to his friends and enemies among the sons of adam?)
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 04, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
Quote from: fye on April 04, 2016, 04:16:36 PM
Leave weed and tea to people who chose to consume such usuary and alcohol are purely destructive.

so if we have weed its nothing to do with alcohal and if we have it .is it a sin or will God be angry on us if we have weed ,
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: agphys on April 05, 2016, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: imrankhawaja on April 04, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
so if we have weed its nothing to do with alcohal and if we have it .is it a sin or will God be angry on us if we have weed ,

Intoxicants are haram
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 05, 2016, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: agphys on April 05, 2016, 12:53:47 PM
Intoxicants are haram

we should avoid intoxicants , my analysis
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 06, 2016, 01:16:49 PM
Does anyone understand what intoxicant are?

Does anyone see the word toxic?

Ask yourself does this just cover anything bad or does it cover anything pharmakinetic?

We are just talking about a flower and some leaves.
Heroin and cocaine are also made from son flower and some leaves yet the extraction is with many toxic breaking down agents.

Alcohol is the waste from yeast feeding on sugars, a clear colored poison which can kill both of these plants.

See the big different?

Are we simply saying poisonous or pharmakentic ( causing certain bodily effects)
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 05:28:06 AM
Salaam everyone!

Out of curiosity, how many of you against the use of marijuana have actually ever used it? Some of the arguments against marijuana on this thread don't make any sense to me.

Like the OP, I smoke (should be using a vaporizer) marijuana quite often. Contrary to popular belief, it is not like what is portrayed in movies. There are no visual hallucinations when under the influence of marijuana. As for its effects on the mind, it is minuscule and kind of hard to explain. It doesn't make you "dumber" or "cloud your judgement." For me at least, it makes me truly understand and appreciate things I would not have understood had I not been under the influence of marijuana. All it does is make you think with a larger scope (different perspectives).

Marijuana expands the scope of my awareness. After all, there is a reason they call it getting "high" and not "low." In fact, I rarely think about Allah throughout my busy day. I know, I'm a horrible Muslim. Slowly, but surely working on that. Back to the point, when I use marijuana, I truly think, appreciate, and understand Allah. Had I not started smoking marijuana, I'm not so sure I'd be studying the Quran today. Heck, had I not started smoking marijuana, I probably wouldn't have made it this far associating myself with Quran only.

Also, just to add, marijuana does not prevent one from achieving success. Some of the most successful millionaire's I personally know smoke marijuana regularly. You guys should check out a new original series called "Highly Productive." The series is about very successful individuals who use marijuana. I have a cousin who went from doing NOTHING to being the founder of a multi-million dollar company. He has also appeared on Ted talk. Guess what... he is a BIG time pothead. Some of the most influential men/women in modern history smoked marijuana. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Barack Obama, Michael Phelps, and Oprah Winfrey are just a few examples...

I'd like to address a member of this forum that goes by "HP." HP made a few claims and asked a few questions regarding marijuana. I'd like to try and answer HP as best I can. Bare with me.

HP said, "Pot has a lot of negative long term effects on your cognitive skills.
Also because it is an illegal drug, much research on its effects has not been conducted.
There are implications however that it may be more severe than previously thought.
I would not advise anyone to any kind of drugs." Firstly, just because marijuana is illegal does not mean there has not been much research on its effects (not sure where you got that idea). There is more research on marijuana than you and I can probably read. And here is a bit from clinical trial data published in the American Journal of Addictions, "cannabis use -- including heavy, long-term use of the drug -- has, at most, only a negligible impact on cognition and memory." If you read the actual paper, the study basically shows that the long term negative effects of marijuana on cognition and memory are so minuscule that it's not even worth mentioning. However, the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry will mention the insignificant negative effects of marijuana over and over (I wonder why?). Here's some more, the study found "no significant difference" between heavy cannabis smokers compared to controls. There is MUCH more research on the subject which shows the positive effects of marijuana outweigh the negative effects by a milestone.

HP asked,

"If you spend a lot of time smoking pot, how do you perform salat?" I perform salat like everyone else...

"Do you approach it while you're high?" No, but I probably wouldn't think of performing salat to begin with (it wouldn't cross my mind, I wouldn't remember, nor would I give it much importance) had I not been high earlier. In the future, I hope to remember performing salat without getting high prior. Am I wrong for this?

"Do you try to read while you're high?" I wonder why you used the word "try." Are you implying it is more difficult to read while you are high than when you are not? Would you know? Have you ever tried it? Have you ever even tried marijuana?

"Are you high right now?" No.

HP, I'm sorry brother, but it seems like your own personal bias is clouding your judgment. How can you be so negative towards something you hardly know about? You said it yourself, "much research on its effects have not been conducted." Which is not true, but even if it were, why jump to a conclusion so quick?

Finally, my personal opinion on the use of marijuana. Like many things, marijuana effects different people in different ways. I DO NOT recommend marijuana to everyone. If you know what you're doing and your mind is not easily influenced, go for it (moderately of course). If not, forget about it and just focus on Allah.

Edit to add* This is my first post! I look forward to joining more discussions in the future.  :)
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 06:04:19 AM
Here's some more. Modern science refutes the notion that marijuana is neuro-toxic. Recent scientific discoveries indicate that cannabinoids are actually neuroprotective. Researchers at the US National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) reported that non-psychoactive cannabinoid reduced ethanol-induced cell death in the brain by up to 60 percent. Let me quote directly from the paper, "This study provides the first demonstration of CBD as an in vivo neuroprotectant... in preventing binge ethanol-induced brain injury."

Also, here's some food for thought. Did you know that alphabet agencies, make MUCH more off of marijuana being illegal than they would if it were legalized? Think about it... just saying...

Don't get me started on Native American culture and religion surrounding marijuana.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 14, 2016, 11:30:06 AM
Salaam
Nope this x-kid poster is correct
In small amounts certain chemicals can increase your information in take like cocaine in small amounts can guide your mood like using the leaves for a tea but in large amounts can take your mind from you and make you obcested with the chemical source like if you take a larger bunch of leaves and turn them in to a reduced salt you can shove up your nose.

A small amount in your bloodstream makes you think that the air light and temperature (atomsphere) is very pleasant just like weed in it's amounts but when does become all about the thc or simply so obviously about the thc that you just start trying to sniff the salt of thc? (in hopes of it rubbing against your brain)

When I think about it it's all salts some crystalline chemical that mixes with your water's and days in your body.
Crack is on base the salts mix into the base and the water's in your mouth and body break down the chemical quicker and that blood like most blood in your body ( even the blood that goes to your boner called boner blood goes to your brain this is why fornication requires the 80lashes you need your brain to release counter chemicals or the bitch will posses you chemically lol)

But it goes between your ties into the pump of your heart and then your brain.smoking oxygen is absorbed in the lung on a cellular level.

Not to put x Lys on blast but I'm pretty sure you high posted you had one big idea and then you tried to time the end of your post with the exhale of your excitement, which could explain the breaks in your posting. That pretty funny but it does nothing for your argument this is not jesusland dude you don't have to save the "I'm high right now!!!!!!" for the ignoramus who attack without knowledge only seeing their own desires.
We understand that there is a science to religion and weed falls into so their toxic or non-toxic and yes I posted on this forum board stoned it was just some kush so with all those thc crystals the ideas flow like an exhale after a pull on a blunt yet it's the tobacco that makes you focus your thoughts.

So has anyone on this forum decided if weed was toxic? People die from alcohol but weed deaths .....
Spiders are toxic but if weed bit me I don't think I'll feel a need to fly around saving people ( the Spiderman spider contained a chemical that made him think he should dress nude-ishly and save people fighting other high powered mentally I'll or high people)

Maybe you can't tell because alcohol is in gas form all-around you in your cleaners, in the drinks you drink, and injected soaps and deodorants and fragrances.

You'll find that a few sips of alcohol will.make reality really set in the world around you starts feeling extremely "real" as though what your body perceives is the only reality.

23rd does the opposite of this and when you get bodied ( drank and blunts lol ALLAH forgive me for my past)
The world becomes this swirl of death and struggling for balance. The weed balances you and the alcohol gives you this near vomit that if You surpress will go away and you'll feel the alcohol steaming ( literally chemically) out of your pores.

Alcohol limits your understanding to your senses you are made of the earth you should be able to pull information from it human beings are literally earth golems. Everything that makes is found in the ground we spawned from. Like food breaks down into sugars we are made of DNA which contains the sugar deoxy-ribose.

Alcohol is a sugar poop or vile made by yeast. Yeast ways sugar and leaves alcohol as a byproduct

Wait this post is too long can someone just wiki alcohol or post and explain the chemical equation and label the by-products. Also more that DNA can be consumed by yeast and human alcohol. Can be made. Like snake alcohol
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 14, 2016, 11:49:10 AM
Pulling from the earth.
We human beings are omnivores we don't have a six sense we are designed to smell out food and our body has a knowledge from eating this food where to find it and how it makes you feel after you consume it.

You can smell the fat to flesh of a flesh based creature, djinn I believe smell like wax
But fat people smell different from skinny people and Moreno hair smells different from other hairs both have oils and oils are used in fragrances.

If you go toward a river or body of water you should be able to smell the water in the air because your mouth is trying to pull moisture from the air like when you put your mouth to a cup of water a comparatively small amount of water.

Your body is always seeking answers and needs you don't want just any sweaty woman in your bed you want one with the oils you ( your body) likes. You always smell chicks hair which is why they are to cover their heads in Islam ( abrahamic monotheism) or some one will pick up the scent of their oils and decide if they should have sex with this woman ( pumping those oils out of her butt into a gas form like weed tell you it's better to inhale it) you get your chemical full of her oils then you can see beyond her oils and realize you don't even like her.

Alcohol makes smelling very very differcult it blinds your senses your nose which pulls all the decisions you make from the air.

Yet again weed enhance your sense of taste. Will anyone go as far to say weed is the opposite of alcohol which is an obvious intoxicant?
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: good logic on April 14, 2016, 12:17:55 PM
Peace fye.

You mean this:

The most common alcohol is ethanol which is commonly produced by fermentation.

Common Alcohols and their Chemical Formula 
methanol CH3OH methanol
ethanol CH3CH2OH or C2H5OH 
propan-1-ol CH3CH2CH2OH or C3H7OH 
propan-2-ol CH3CH(OH)CH3 

I am sure you can also find the chemical formula for weeds, drugs,etc.

But it is better if you say NO
.
What is the chemical formula for NO?

NO is a chemical formula. NO stands for Nitric oxide (nitrogen monoxide). Nitric oxide is a chemical compound that is produced by cigarette smoke.

On a serious note. Can the body be healthier without? That is if one chooses to!

GOD bless you.
Peace
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: good logic on April 14, 2016, 12:17:55 PM


I am sure you can also find the chemical formula for weeds, drugs,etc.


C21H30O2 thats the chemical formula of thc which is the main element of makin marijuana

and as far plant concern one can say that it gives u relaxation ,

what is the alternate of getting relaxation if it cannot be obtained by intoxicants

and effects and nature of marijuana is totally different from alchohal

alcohol makes blood pressure high whereas weed make it slow
alchol is liquid wheras weed is solid or gas
one makes u trouble maker whereas weed makes u peaceful
one makes ur liver damage wheras weed effext on lungs

Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 01:17:44 PM
Salaam Fye!

I don't mean to offend you, but you may be a good example to why I don't recommend marijuana. First of all, who is "x-kid?" If you're referring to me, thanks, but I don't think you realize how old I am  :(. Also, who's "x Lys?" If that is also referring to me, is it that hard to type up Xailus? Just curious.

Fye, you said, "I'm pretty sure you high posted." I'm sorry brother (or sister?), I was not high when I first posted and I'm not high right now... As for how you came to this conclusion, I don't even understand what you mean by, "you had one big idea and then you tried to end your post with the exhale of your excitement." In fact, I don't understand more than half your post... I've read it 3 times and can't make out what you're trying to say. Either the marijuana is truly messing with your ability to communicate properly or English is not your first language (or I can't read properly  ;D). I can't really address the rest of your post because I honestly don't understand it.

Salaam imrankhawaja!

I'd like to point out that weed only effects the lungs if smoked. There are many other ways to use marijuana. Edibles and vaporizers are very safe ways to use marijuana.


Edit to add* I haven't been using the "Quote" option and I apologize. I still have to get used to the tools on this forum.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 01:31:18 PM
The more I think about it, the more I believe marijuana is not for most people (keyword being most, meaning majority). And given the current path I see society taking, I am not for the legalization of marijuana. I believe it will be used and abused without caution. I am, however, for the decriminalization of marijuana. The irony of all this coming from someone who uses marijuana regularly. Take it how you will.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 01:37:47 PM
Quote from: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 01:31:18 PM
The more I think about it, the more I believe marijuana is not for most people (keyword being most, meaning majority). And given the current path I see society taking, I am not for the legalization of marijuana. I believe it will be used and abused without caution. I am, however, for the decriminalization of marijuana. The irony of all this coming from someone who uses marijuana regularly. Take it how you will.

w salam my brother

there are some little advantages of weed like it make your thinking broad and you can easily do research and difficult works as the state of mind is relaxed, i can understand what you trying to say, and also it enhabce driving abilities one is more cautious while driving , i mean high alert , but again my question is is the intxication of quran and weed are in same catagory, as i already told the differences between alcohal and weed
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 02:02:43 PM
Quote from: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 01:37:47 PM
w salam my brother

there are some little advantages of weed like it make your thinking broad and you can easily do research and difficult works as the state of mind is relaxed, i can understand what you trying to say, and also it enhabce driving abilities one is more cautious while driving , i mean high alert , but again my question is is the intxication of quran and weed are in same catagory, as i already told the differences between alcohal and weed

Personally, I wouldn't categorize marijuana as toxic. I don't find it to be toxic to me physically or mentally. But again, that only applies to me. Everyone is different, so I cannot speak for anyone else. For example, my brother-in-law is quite a test subject for neurologists and sleep doctors. He is the first person I've seen go into the deepest Rem sleep while STANDING. Waking him up is one of the hardest things. I have to literally drag him from one of the legs and toss him off the bed as hard as I can so that he experiences the sensation of free-falling.

Here is the deal, I once got my brother-in-law very high off marijuana. Boy was that an experience for the both of us. His reaction to marijuana was out of this world... I believe it's because his state of mind is naturally high. In other words, some of the effects I feel while under the influence of marijuana is what my brother-in-law feels sober. He is quite a remarkable man, born and raised on the Himalayan mountains of Nepal. He was also the heaviest newborn in his city. He is naturally fit and big boned. He can also eat more than I've ever seen anyone eat and still not gain a lb. Anyways, he is a subject for a different thread on "mountain men." Point is, he is different and so reacts to things differently.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 02:32:10 PM
hmm then as a conclusion if we have weed we are not doing sommething fishy , thats what i m afraid off always, becoz not at any cost i want to angry my lord , if alcholal and marijuans are different things and if marijuan is not catagorised as toxic , then there is no ham of having it , like tea , coffe , antibiotics tablets, cigraates tobacco etc,
but again i dnt know why i m afraid always of disobeying lord, i m not perfect though , everybody have mistakes but one need to understand whats going on ,
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 02:32:10 PM
hmm then as a conclusion if we have weed we are not doing sommething fishy , thats what i m afraid off always, becoz not at any cost i want to angry my lord , if alcholal and marijuans are different things and if marijuan is not catagorised as toxic , then there is no ham of having it , like tea , coffe , antibiotics tablets, cigraates tobacco etc,
but again i dnt know why i m afraid always of disobeying lord, i m not perfect though , everybody have mistakes but one need to understand whats going on ,

Being afraid of disobeying your lord reflects your obedience towards him. It is a good thing :). Let me clarify, just because I categorized marijuana as "non-toxic" does not mean it is true. I may, very well, be wrong. If you really care to know (with God in mind), there is plenty of information on marijuana on the internet and in your local library. Do the research and form your own opinion. My advice, if you're on the fence and cannot make up your mind, leave it alone.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: imrankhawaja on April 14, 2016, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: Xailus on April 14, 2016, 03:01:31 PM
Being afraid of disobeying your lord reflects your obedience towards him. It is a good thing :). Let me clarify, just because I categorized marijuana as "non-toxic" does not mean it is true. I may, very well, be wrong. If you really care to know (with God in mind), there is plenty of information on marijuana on the internet and in your local library. Do the research and form your own opinion. My advice, if you're on the fence and cannot make up your mind, leave it alone.

hmm lets see in which way the wind will blow..lol, by the way nice meeting with you. i think you just jjoined the forum , and i dnt know you name either, well i m imran from birmingham
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 17, 2016, 01:09:15 PM
Salaam sorry xailus I for fustrated at the board because I smoke weed and I don't really see how it can be an intoxicant I smoked and drink my fair share of alcohol and alcohol dulls your senses.
If you had to hunt for food drunk your more likely to fail.
Sorry about the a kid thing not a disrespect fully term to me.
And I thought it was just a high post because it seemed incomplete.

So this board is full of anti-weed and I was hoping to being it to a level of intoxicant.
So far people say it's not much different from yea and coffee just a but heavier.
Recall the history of weed how it became banned and replaced with alcohol. Was that really a move for the better?
Alcohol is used to extract oils from things because of it's destructive properties. It can decay vanilla bean mash and leave just a flavoured liquid
This happens in the body too.

Fire is bad because it turns you into part of the fire getting burned by fire what it leaves is carbon. Same 28th smoking weed.
Yet medical thc is sometimes extracted with alcohol does this take away from the medical qualities?

The harm would still be below the benefit.

Sorry if you didn't understand my post but human beings are supposed to have many senses like all life we sense danger so why does alcohol kill that sense while other substances make you taste stronger, enjoy the day more and such.

Alcohol is for depressed people who want to hurt themselves anyway, why would you drink something that tastes poisonous looks like water and makes you sick?
You can smoke alcohol just by pumping our of a liquid contained in a bottle saw it on YouTube and I thought the guy was pretty brave.
He smoked a box of wine the alcohol Was forced out by air pressure and he inhaled and got wastes in seconds
Like with pot it went straight to the lungs and head yet it's truly just in the blood stream mixing with the water already there.
Xailus welcome to the forum board I'm not really advocating weed it won't solve your problems and stuff but if it simply changed your disposition would you consider that like mint and root plants and some other flowers it's simply just getting a bad name? And it that the fun of smoking weed is distracting from it purpose? Like tea during the teaa party age and alcohol entering the pub and tavern age?
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on April 29, 2016, 10:13:49 PM
Everyone go back and read post #21 the matter has been settle long ago. Fye is just fishing for bait...
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 30, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
Fishing for bait? What My cover is blown?
Drugs have always been a part if human life man. You think cocaine wasn't a smelling salt on the silk road?
I smoke weed and I'm cool with that is this a judge people board or is there some goal we are after?
I'm simply saying if weed is bad then so if Advil coffee and large amounts of sugar.
But it's cool ALLAH will justify me. Sound like your just paranoid up I know your type what does your shaykh say about drugs? And what does he say about selling or giving them to kafirs?
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on April 30, 2016, 12:58:05 PM
Little boy look at my avatar do I seem like your "typical" Muslim? I have no shayk no Imam.
I serve Allah Alone being sincere to Him in the dini.
I am actually closer to you than any of the people on this forum. Yet you have been unable to see it.
I have been waiting for you to get off the pot and come find me.
You are oblivious to the fact that we are both young black men, following Quran alone, both studying science, and yes I have smoked that which you smoke looong before as well.
Who better than me to tell you to quit and to reason?

The only known beneficial chemical in cannabis is cannabidiol (CBD) and studies on its long lasting effects have mixed reviews , THC is just what induces the "High" symptoms. Science confirms this. So when you are smoking the leaf you are only consuming THC which has more harm than benefit.
If your claim is that cannabis is just the plant then don't burn it and smoke it that's not natural. It's like claiming that broccoli are good for you if you smoke them...it is ridiculous.
If you want to consume consume it like all the other plants mash it up and juice it or eat it as a salad.

Either way the minuscule beneficial side of cannabidiol is irrelevant to how you put the plant into use. I doubt you have any neurological disorder or epilepsy. If you did then you need to extract CBD separately from the plant and use it as therapeutic oil. You just smoke the dried leaves bruh.
Which studies have demonstrated its great harm for users.
These are some:
Reduced resistance to common illnesses (colds, bronchitis, etc.)
Suppression of the immune system
Growth disorders
Increase of abnormally structured cells in the body
Reduction of male sex hormones
Rapid destruction of lung fibers and lesions (injuries) to the brain could be permanent
Reduced sexual capacity
Study difficulties: reduced ability to learn and retain information
Apathy, drowsiness, lack of motivation
Personality and mood changes
Inability to understand things clearly

The last one seems to pin point your condition exactly.

Scientific endeavor discourages smoking marijuana( we are both students of science)
There's no excuse for you.

Allah's Words are clear in the Quran go back and see post #21
We are to refrain from substances which cloud the mind

I am to you of the sincerest advisors.

Please genuinely reflect on Allah's Words
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 30, 2016, 01:21:08 PM
 Salaam this is a good reply and the energy you expect the forum board to hold every now and then.
You come off as a shaykh type but my bad I mad some asses sorry for assuming.
What you say about pot is somewhat true but considering the verse it points to toxicity.
What is mind clouding? What is mind clearing?
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on April 30, 2016, 01:38:47 PM
A black man wearing a grey hoodie, black Jordan shorts, Nike socks and red Kobe Crazy8's sneakers is  definitely not your typical shayk  :confused: :hmm.

Again you did not follow the discussion prior to 21 up closely.
Your misconception is manifold

You think intoxicant relates to toxic substances

You see marijuana as a plant and fail to see that you are burning it and not ingesting the plant by cooking, juicing it nor eating it as raw salad.

Burning is a chemical reaction, inhaling any kind of smoke can be toxic.
Come on you are in science!

You think the word in the Ayaahs mentions toxicity.

All those assumptions are completely WRONG
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 30, 2016, 02:01:43 PM
I understand that smoke inhalation is bad But I smoke. Like with yeast leaving a by-product alcohol fire eats and leaves a by-product too.
The by products of tobacco are usullay from addictives I've never seen a by-product of maijuana smoke.
I've eaten pot before but if your goal is simply crush my pride about smoking in general then you got your point accross I'll drop my pride and say it's bad and I should quit. Ouch my pride is hurt lol.
Yet I do believe pot has benefits and it not obviously poisonous.
There is a verse in the Quran that goes like if someone of set purpose goes astray then let them.
Your duty is only to warn.
Of we all outlawed cannabis would we be missing out on some big scientific advanced?
The being a tetra compound similar to reactions maintaining life are we missing out on some huge benefit.
Also for people like me who smoke for experience what do you think we get out of smoking or consuming the plant? From your experience?
It simply makes things seem more complex and worth examining.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: HP_TECH on April 30, 2016, 02:17:55 PM
My goal is to convey to you my message clearly.

I've used pot before I thought that using it was helping me critically think and examine things as you have stated. The truth is that I was completely deluded. It was clouding my mind and once I abstained from the drug I realized it.

Try your best and if and when you succeed come find me.

Goodbye for now
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: fye on April 30, 2016, 02:25:32 PM
Salaam your message is received. I'll just quit it no big thing not like breathing air and drink water I can  live without it.
Thank you and I'm not to proud to serve ALLAH.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: good logic on January 24, 2021, 08:29:24 AM
My simple and effective method to combat depression is to seek meditation and praise ,connecting to GOD Alone and feeding your soul.

All intoxicants of the mind cloud it and hold your soul prisoner to the habit.

Free your soul ,connect to your creator.
GOD bless.
Peace.
Title: Re: On Marijuana
Post by: Wal1Allan on February 04, 2021, 03:40:32 PM
Alcohol is shit. I don't understand why countries have chosen to ban pot, and alcohol is advertised everywhere...