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Community Needs => Salat & Zakat (The Contact & Purification) => Topic started by: Ali Nasser on January 08, 2014, 12:33:13 AM

Title: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Ali Nasser on January 08, 2014, 12:33:13 AM
Greeting fellow earthlings,

I am trying to compile a method in which I am able to conduct my daily prayers. Like what to say, what to do etc.

I was wondering, in regards to what to say, if you want to take an extract from a variety of verses and put them together in a way that would indicate you are asking for forgiveness for example, would it be okay to do that? Like for instance, pick out a verse, something in it that you like, and you take out a portion of it to use in your prayer, is that permissible?

Also, are there any verses which tell you what positions you must do, what order, or is it possible to just face the kaaba in a prostrating, or standing, or bowing  position and recite your prayer?
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Momeen on January 08, 2014, 01:04:46 AM
Greeting fellow earthlings,

I am trying to compile a method in which I am able to conduct my daily prayers. Like what to say, what to do etc.

I was wondering, in regards to what to say, if you want to take an extract from a variety of verses and put them together in a way that would indicate you are asking for forgiveness for example, would it be okay to do that? Like for instance, pick out a verse, something in it that you like, and you take out a portion of it to use in your prayer, is that permissible?

Also, are there any verses which tell you what positions you must do, what order, or is it possible to just face the kaaba in a prostrating, or standing, or bowing  position and recite your prayer?

why dont you just pray the way our prophet prayed?
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: GODsubmitter on January 08, 2014, 10:28:01 AM
why dont you just pray the way our prophet prayed?

And how do we know how someone prayed 1400 years ago?  ???
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Momeen on January 08, 2014, 05:22:31 PM
And how do we know how someone prayed 1400 years ago?  ???


someone?

mate we are talking about prophet Muhammed(s) here, who is was not a common man, his praying and namaz/salat was witnessed by millions.

so the closet thing which can be done regards to praying is sunni namaz.

I am shia my self when it comes to following ahlul bayt teachings, but I personally think when it comes to praying sunnis are closer and they dont have any reason to innovate.

when I go to sunni masjid I pray sunni way, when shia shia-way.

and I think both this schools are correct, and we dont need any third way to pray.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Momeen on January 08, 2014, 05:27:26 PM

someone?

mate we are talking about prophet Muhammed(s) here, who is was not a common man, his praying and namaz/salat was witnessed by millions.

so the closet thing which can be done regards to praying is sunni namaz.

I am shia my self when it comes to following ahlul bayt teachings, but I personally think when it comes to praying sunnis are closer and they dont have any reason to innovate.

when I go to sunni masjid I pray sunni way, when shia shia-way.

and I think both these schools are correct, and we dont need any third way to pray.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: GODsubmitter on January 08, 2014, 05:38:12 PM

someone?

mate we are talking about prophet Muhammed(s) here, who is was not a common man, his praying and namaz/salat was witnessed by millions.

so the closet thing which can be done regards to praying is sunni namaz.

I am shia my self when it comes to following ahlul bayt teachings, but I personally think when it comes to praying sunnis are closer and they dont have any reason to innovate.

when I go to sunni masjid I pray sunni way, when shia shia-way.

and I think both this schools are correct, and we dont need any third way to pray.

You see that even you already mentioned two "fashions" of prayer sunni/shia... so in which fashion did the prophet pray?

And, by the way, all those people who you say witnessed it they are all long dead...

Glory to God
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: The_Chimp on January 08, 2014, 05:50:09 PM
You see that even you already mentioned two "fashions" of prayer sunni/shia... so in which fashion did the prophet pray?

And, by the way, all those people who you say witnessed it they are all long dead...

Glory to God

They witnessed and prayed in a similar way. Those who witnessed them prayed similarly . . . hence the chain continues.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: sushi1992 on January 08, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
You can do the bond/connection however you want. God describes a few ways, standing, sitting etc.

Pray the "sunni" way or "shia" way if one pleases. There is no namaz in the Quran so i don't think it's a good idea forward spacing "namaz" and "salat" as if they are interchangeable because they are not.

Also, how do you know Muhammad's praying was witness by "millions"? Is this based on your congecture? What evidence do you hold on how Muhammad prayed. If anything, it wasn't the traditional "namaz" way. Your view?

:peace:
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: The_Chimp on January 08, 2014, 08:17:45 PM
You can do the bond/connection however you want. God describes a few ways, standing, sitting etc.

Pray the "sunni" way or "shia" way if one pleases. There is no namaz in the Quran so i don't think it's a good idea forward spacing "namaz" and "salat" as if they are interchangeable because they are not.

Also, how do you know Muhammad's praying was witness by "millions"? Is this based on your congecture? What evidence do you hold on how Muhammad prayed. If anything, it wasn't the traditional "namaz" way. Your view?

:peace:

How do you know the Quran is book of Allah? Answer that . . . it will answer everything.

- - -

Quran-only rejection of Hadith is clearly unsupportable.

Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Momeen on January 08, 2014, 08:53:43 PM
You see that even you already mentioned two "fashions" of prayer sunni/shia... so in which fashion did the prophet pray?

And, by the way, all those people who you say witnessed it they are all long dead...

Glory to God

yes this is exactly my point, either Sunni or Shia way, there cant be third way, because that doesn't exists and only these two are prophetic way of praying.

either sunni or shia way, as we cant confirm which is correct we can chose any of them, but there cant be third.

few things in hadith are questionable which are from private life of prophet (huge chance they are manipulated)

but clear way of life and hadis which deals with ramadan and praying, cant be ignored.


unless you want to be your own prophet and bring your own shariyah.  :nope:
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Habibullah on January 09, 2014, 02:19:50 AM
Namaz is not even an arabic word. It is a persian word, earlier it was used in the persian military, meaning to repeat an exercise again and again untill you can do it with without even thinking about it. Thats what salat have become today, just like a military exercise, it have turned into a persian namaz. It is like saying sesam sesam open up, using magic words for your idol god.

There are many MANY examples of what to say in your prayers, all examples show one thing "say that which you have in your heart and mind" to remind YOURSELF of God. However, salat and prayer is not the same thing.

Peace
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Scribbler on January 09, 2014, 04:02:27 AM
Dear brothers and sisters, who follow the Sunni and Shia's way of Islam,


Peace be upon you.


If salat is to be established in the way the Sunnis or Shias do, may I kindly ask you a couple of questions, which I believe is pertinent to ask, and hope that you would answer truthfully regardless of any bias.


Take a look at this:

Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer (Arabic: alssalata) for My remembrance (20:14)


The above verse is a dialogue when Allah and Prophet Moses (pbuh) talked for the first time in the Holy valley of Tuwa.


My first question: How did Prophet Moses (pbuh) and his people established salat without the Torah between their hands?



Now look these verses:

Thereupon Zachariah prayed to his Lord, saying, Lord, grant me by Your own grace virtuous offspring. You are the hearer of all prayers (3:38)

As he stood praying (Arabic: yusallee) in the chamber, the angels called out to him, saying, God gives you the good news of John, who shall confirm the Word from God, and [shall be] outstanding among men, and utterly chaste, and a prophet from among the righteous. (3:39)


From the above verses we can see that Prophet Zachariah (pbuh) was establishing salat.


My second question: Was Prophet Zachariah (pbuh) uttering words in his salat from a book which was revealed unto him by God?



Please note: The positions of standing, bowing and prostrating is a part of salat, since I believe that this form has been transferred to us through mass transmissions by practice from generations after generations, hence there is absolutely no need to 'reinvent the wheel' since the current practice is not in contravention with any of the ayats of the Quran. In fact, there is more than a suggestion in the Quran that standing, bowing and prostrating are indeed a part of salat. Also if we look at how the Jews pray, we'll see the same positions of standing, bowing and prostrating in their prayer as well.



Regards.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: sushi1992 on January 09, 2014, 05:30:02 AM
How do you know the Quran is book of Allah? Answer that . . . it will answer everything.

- - -

Quran-only rejection of Hadith is clearly unsupportable.

I believe it is the words of God because of the content. The way things are talked about, the justice of the book, the purity of it in a sense that this is the way life should be lived. Bare in mind the book is an inspiration from God, do you know what that means?

How will that answer everything for you, I'm curious. Because even me believing that it is a guidance from God, I don't just agree to anything the Qur'an says without further analysis as you should do.

Also, out of pure curiosity, are you:

In support of Qur'an and hadith,
Qur'an only,
Hadith only,
None.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: sushi1992 on January 09, 2014, 05:34:24 AM
PS:

I think people forget what happened before Muhammad came along. Was everyone misguided? Everyone before him is destined to hell? Well no because we know that all prophets followed the same universal message. There's a lot of hadiths which discuss, honestly, ridiculous and disgusting things. May we bare in mind that these were written hundreds of years after Muhammad died? Plus, the Qur'an is fully detailed. That means you need NOTHING extra as a basic guide to life. So why try to extrapolate the quranic words and explain them with other baseless hadiths when the answer will be explained in the Qur'an. God is not difficult in its system of life/attitude.

Peace
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Earthdom on January 09, 2014, 10:38:16 AM
Salaam

Now I simply remove any speculations within salat, hajj, fasting theories.

I simply submitt to God withouth bounded by any religious institutions.
I can do dzikir with Sunni muslims during midnight, do salat in an ahmadiyah mosque, meditate in a Hindhu temple as  long as this dedicated to God Alone.

It's bid'ah, shirk?? Ney.

1) Abraham has no religion but just simply just submit to God (3:67)
2) There is no compulsion in dyn/religious system (2:256).
3) Islam isn't about confuse  fatwa like where's our qiblat, salat must like this or that.But simply just faith and good deeds (2:177)

Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Man of Faith on January 09, 2014, 10:48:35 AM
Peace Earthdom,

 :bravo:

God bless you
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: GODsubmitter on January 09, 2014, 11:26:03 AM
Namaz is not even an arabic word. It is a persian word, earlier it was used in the persian military, meaning to repeat an exercise again and again untill you can do it with without even thinking about it. Thats what salat have become today, just like a military exercise, it have turned into a persian namaz. It is like saying sesam sesam open up, using magic words for your idol god.

There are many MANY examples of what to say in your prayers, all examples show one thing "say that which you have in your heart and mind" to remind YOURSELF of God. However, salat and prayer is not the same thing.

Peace

I like very much your post. Thank you.

I also see and think that namaz became exactly that: a fictitious mechanical repetition...

And, since you say "However, salat and prayer is not the same thing.", would you care to explain it to me what do you mean by salat please, because there is much contradiction and different interpretations about it. We all know what prayer ("dua") might be, I suppose.

Thank you

Glory be to God, the Uncreated Eternal One
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: sushi1992 on January 09, 2014, 01:58:21 PM
Salaam

Now I simply remove any speculations within salat, hajj, fasting theories.

I simply submitt to God withouth bounded by any religious institutions.
I can do dzikir with Sunni muslims during midnight, do salat in an ahmadiyah mosque, meditate in a Hindhu temple as  long as this dedicated to God Alone.

It's bid'ah, shirk?? Ney.

1) Abraham has no religion but just simply just submit to God (3:67)
2) There is no compulsion in dyn/religious system (2:256).
3) Islam isn't about confuse  fatwa like where's our qiblat, salat must like this or that.But simply just faith and good deeds (2:177)

Well said Fred ;)
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Momeen on January 09, 2014, 06:45:22 PM
Dont forget the messenger....
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: sushi1992 on January 09, 2014, 07:00:25 PM
Dont forget the messenger....

???
1. Which messenger, there are many we know of and many we don't.
2. If you're referring to Muhammad, what difference does it make if he is known or not known/forgotten or not?

The only being we should not forget is God. Everyone else is irrelevant. But I thank the messengers and prophets for their constant deliverance of the message.
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: Habibullah on January 11, 2014, 04:23:07 PM
And, since you say "However, salat and prayer is not the same thing.", would you care to explain it to me what do you mean by salat please, because there is much contradiction and different interpretations about it. We all know what prayer ("dua") might be, I suppose.


Peace brother,

I am sorry for the confusion.
What I should have written was "it is not just mere prayer". I do not know of a substitute in English for the arabic word Salat. If I ever would translate a verse/sign where the arabic word salat is used I would translate the whole verse except the word salat.


Perform As-Salat at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night and the reading at dawn; surely the reading at dawn (qur-ana alfaj-ri) is witnessed. 17:78

Those to whom We have sent the Book read/study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein, - the loss is their own. 2:121

24:58 salati alfajr-i
17:78 quran alfajr-i
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: GODsubmitter on January 11, 2014, 09:31:55 PM
Peace brother,

I am sorry for the confusion.
What I should have written was "it is not just mere prayer". I do not know of a substitute in English for the arabic word Salat. If I ever would translate a verse/sign where the arabic word salat is used I would translate the whole verse except the word salat.


Perform As-Salat at the sinking of the sun to the darkening of the night and the reading at dawn; surely the reading at dawn (qur-ana alfaj-ri) is witnessed. 17:78

Those to whom We have sent the Book read/study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein, - the loss is their own. 2:121

24:58 salati alfajr-i
17:78 quran alfajr-i


Peace.

Thank you for the answer
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: mmkhan on January 12, 2014, 03:55:09 AM
Greeting fellow earthlings,

I am trying to compile a method in which I am able to conduct my daily prayers. Like what to say, what to do etc.

I was wondering, in regards to what to say, if you want to take an extract from a variety of verses and put them together in a way that would indicate you are asking for forgiveness for example, would it be okay to do that? Like for instance, pick out a verse, something in it that you like, and you take out a portion of it to use in your prayer, is that permissible?

Also, are there any verses which tell you what positions you must do, what order, or is it possible to just face the kaaba in a prostrating, or standing, or bowing  position and recite your prayer?

Peace brother,

I personally understand that you are absolutely permissible to do so, inshaAllah.
It is just between you and Allah. Indeed, you will pick up only those words that you need. So, how it could be wrong?
You are not trying to change the word of Allah, right? Then how and why it is wrong?
You don't need any particular position of facing towards anything, just call your Lord FROM YOUR HEART [not just from tongue like parroting], inshaAllah, you will get the best answers of what you asked Him for.

To understand it better, recall Zakariyya [19:2-3] and please understand 7:205.


May Allah's peace and blessings be upon you :pr
mmKhan
Title: Re: Prayer & using the Quran.
Post by: ths on January 28, 2014, 05:57:07 PM
Peace Ali,


Quote from: ali
Greeting fellow earthlings,

I am trying to compile a method in which I am able to conduct my daily prayers. Like what to say, what to do etc.

I was wondering, in regards to what to say, if you want to take an extract from a variety of verses and put them together in a way that would indicate you are asking for forgiveness for example, would it be okay to do that? Like for instance, pick out a verse, something in it that you like, and you take out a portion of it to use in your prayer, is that permissible?

Also, are there any verses which tell you what positions you must do, what order, or is it possible to just face the kaaba in a prostrating, or standing, or bowing  position and recite your prayer?


Personally, I pray the traditional sunni way, but with modifications. However, I don't think the actual form is very important.

The Quran mentions standing, bowing, prostration, direction, and the glorification of God in the state of prostration, so I think it's clear that the early Muslims simply copied Muhammad's chosen way to do so.

I also prefer to read from the Quran while standing, instead of just recite the same verses that I know off by heart. It's a great method to read more of the Quran.

After the part "sami3ah l-laaha liman hamidah" I quote verse 17:110-111. I think it's very appropriate for that position.


Then in the bent and prostrated positions I make the necessary tasbeeh, which is already a part of normal salah

Finally in the seated position I start the tahiyyaat in the normal way. I omit the direct stuff spoken to Muhammad because I think it's heretical.

Then I make the shahadah, but without the reference to Muhammad. My shahadah is simply:
أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله ، واشهد أن لا شريك له


Then I recite relevant verses from the Quran.
I've created a list of such verses for myself and change them occasionally, but for now this is the one I like most:

2:136:

ءامنا بالله وما انزل الينا وما انزل الى ابرهم واسمعيل واسحق ويعقوب والاسباط وما اوتى موسى وعيسى وما اوتى النبيون من ربهم لا نفرق بين احد منهم ونحن له مسلمون

"We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and ,their descendants,111 and that which has been vouchsafed to Moses and Jesus; and that which has been vouchsafed to all the [other] prophets by their Sustainer: we make no distinction between any of them.112 And it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves."


6:162-163

ان صلاتى ونسكى ومحياى ومماتى لله رب العلمين

"My contact prayer, my devotion and offerings, my life, and my death, are all to God the Lord of the worlds."


46:15:

رب اوزعنى ان اشكر نعمتك التى انعمت على وعلى ولدى وان اعمل صلحا ترضىه واصلح لى فى ذريتى انى تبت اليك وانى من المسلمين


"My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents and to work righteousness of which You will approve and make righteous for me my offspring. Indeed, I have repented to You, and indeed, I am of the Muslims."


3:8

ربنا لا تزغ قلوبنا بعد اذ هديتنا وهب لنا من لدنك رحمة انك انت الوهاب


(Our Lord, make not our hearts to swerve after that Thou hast guided us; and give us mercy from Thee; Thou art the Giver)

2:201

ربنا ءاتنا فى الدنيا حسنة وفى الءاخرة حسنة وقنا عذاب النار


'Our Lord, give to us in this world good, and good in the world to come, and guard us against the chastisement of the fire'


14:40:

(رَبِّ اجْعَلْنِي مُقِيمَ الصَّلاَةِ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي رَبَّنَا وَتَقَبَّلْ دُعَاء)

O my Sustainer, cause me and [some] of my offspring to remain constant in prayer!54 "And, O our Sustainer, accept this my prayer



So that's my prayer at the moment. Those verses are all quotes from people like Ibrahim and others used as examples in the Quran.

Whenever I come across such a verse I write it down, and every now and then I rotate them or add new ones that speak to me at that moment.