Free Minds

Family Issues => Parenting & Children => Topic started by: 357 on December 24, 2013, 07:03:03 AM

Title: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: 357 on December 24, 2013, 07:03:03 AM
Well Does music make kids bright?


As you know einstaine used to be a fan of music also - this kid in america has done the same:

At night, his mother would take her son outside to listen to jazz and gaze at the sky
 

He is another einstein.......just google.   :peace:
 
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Bismillah on December 24, 2013, 08:39:32 AM
 I voted "only certain types".

 Classical music (pre-romantic) like Vivaldi, Bach, Mozart, Haydn, etc. is very good.
 Turkish sufi and classical music is very good.
 Some folk music is just ok, nor bad neither good.
 Rock and roll and majority of pop music of MTV and all this is simply crap, garbage, Shaytan's music.

 It depends if the music is seeking armony and elevation of the soul or is seeking to excite the nafs and the lowest passions.

 Even an egyptian salafist that says, as a good salafist, that music is haram said to me that if we both were in a car and I put Mozart, he wouldn't be annoyed but ok. Not the same with rock and roll.

 Another aspect is songs with lyrics about love, girls, "I cannot live without you", etc. = absolute crap, no matter singing in english, arab, spanish or urdu.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: good logic on December 24, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
Peace 357.

All music that" I " like, is very good. The " I " can be anybody.

There is no bad music. except music that " I " do not like to listen to. Since " I " do not listen to it, it does not exist.

Peace to you.

Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: diamantinehoneybunch on December 24, 2013, 10:21:14 AM
What's wrong with song about love?

I love Westlife, Backstreet Boys, C?line Dion, One Republic, Queen, Bon Jovi.

Music today is crap such as the new Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber.
I am a girl, I don't even like JB.

Music can be both good and bad depends on the taste.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: JavaLatte on June 03, 2014, 06:22:48 AM
All music that" I " like, is very good. The " I " can be anybody.

There is no bad music. except music that " I " do not like to listen to. Since " I " do not listen to it, it does not exist.


Interesting perspective!  :laugh:


Peace.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Man of Faith on June 03, 2014, 06:50:12 AM
Modest songs are okay, but not if you sing "I am a sexy m****f***ah" for example, and songs that are more aimed at be alluringly sexy than quality of song.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: JavaLatte on June 03, 2014, 07:04:13 AM
Modest songs are okay, but not if you sing "I am a sexy m****f***ah" for example, and songs that are more aimed at be alluringly sexy than quality of song.

:laugh:

Nice choices, brother!


Peace.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: muslims on June 03, 2014, 07:16:24 AM

Why music is forbidden ?

What we do with the music might be forbidden . . but not the music itself.

Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: mmkhan on June 03, 2014, 07:49:37 AM
Why music is forbidden ?

What we do with the music might be forbidden . . but not the music itself.

Not the music itself, I think, but the words used with it does, sometimes. :D
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: muslims on June 03, 2014, 07:57:58 AM
Not the music itself, I think, but the words used with it does, sometimes. :D

I believe words do not cause injustice and cannot be haram, human being cause injustice.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Man of Faith on June 03, 2014, 08:32:53 AM
The texts can be immoral.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: JavaLatte on June 03, 2014, 08:40:39 AM
Not the music itself, I think, but the words used with it does, sometimes. :D

YES.


What we do with the music might be forbidden . .

YES.


The texts can be immoral.

YES.


Peace.  :)
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: muslims on June 03, 2014, 09:19:31 AM
The texts can be immoral.

Our understandings can be immoral. . not the texts.

The texts cannot be forbidden.

For example. . .

            And they followed what the devils recited regarding the kingship of Solomon.
            Solomon did not reject, but it was the devils who rejected by teaching people magic,
            and teaching them what was sent down on the two angels in Babylon, Haroot and Maroot.
            They did not teach anyone until they would say:
            "We are a test, so do not lose faith!"
            Thus they teach what can separate between a person and his mate;
            but they cannot harm anyone except with the permission of God.
            And they learn what harms them and does not benefit them,
            and they have known that he who purchases such has no place in the Hereafter.
            Miserable indeed is what they purchased with their souls if only they knew!
            (2.102)

Is it the text that is forbidden, or practising what the text is saying is forbidden ?

I believe it is practising what the text is saying which is forbidden. . .

Another example, flesh of swine. . . flesh of swine is not forbidden
but it is the act of eating flesh of swine that is forbidden.

Another example, money is not haram. . but the act of taking usury is haram. . .
so , it is the act of taking usury that is forbidden, not the money etc.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: ironman on June 03, 2014, 10:14:03 AM
I love to listen music. Would love to compose them too. I mostly listen to instrumental, soundtracks from action video games, such as "God of war", "prince of persia", "dante's inferno", "darksider" etc. They works like coffee when I work. Classical theological songs are also good for me. Indian classic is also good for me. Any good melody is ok for me. I hate the sexual music where you find nothing but sex. I love violin, playing violin notes with D-minor key makes me cry.

Those who think, all musics deviate one from Lord, is a liar and close to devil; I testify it.

When I become sad, I listen to,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZ7bBaYpcw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZ7bBaYpcw)

And "adonai roi" from psalm 23, zabur.  :)

Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on December 29, 2015, 05:47:09 PM
 In the name of the God the most gracious the most merciful

26:220 He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.
26:221 Shall I inform you on whom the devils come down?
26:222 They come down on every sinful liar.
26:223 They claim to listen, but most of them are liars.
26:224 And the poets, are followed by the strayers.
26:225 Do you not see that they traverse in every valley.
26:226 And that what they say, is not what they do!
26:227 Except for those who believe, and do good works, and remember God greatly, and were victorious after they were wronged. As for those who did wrong, they will know which fate they will meet.

Music with lyrics is poetry. A form of poetic expression. I think this notion is widely accepted.
And the poets follow them l-ghāwūna the deviatiors.
Music without lyrics may be fine depending on what you let it inspire
If it puts you in a mood that may incline you to be aggressive, lustful, boastful then abstain.
Does it make you want to jump up and dance?
I still don't know how I feel about dancing but maybe because I have no rhythm
But when I do dance I feel embarrassed like God is watching me and instead of being humbled by His presence I am disregarding for my temporary vain enjoyment (if at all) or expression.

It is a case by case in my opinion and I still wouldn't dare call anything other than what Allah has prescribes as forbidden in the Book, forbidden.
I would avoid it if possible because music with no lyrics can inspire emotions and desires that are not synonymous with your person. ( I have found myself repeating the stupidest things heard on radio, or embarrassing myself doing dance moves that don't fit my person)

In MY case abstaining by personal choice from music has proven tremendously beneficial.
I have calm long car drives, in which I am focused on the road or can plan ahead or think and fantasize
I am not constantly obsessed over musical fads or dances or mindlessly repeating like a drone trendy lines from mundane songs.
Music used to in my old days inspire all kind of negative desires in me
Every time I hear mundane music lately I feel like it strives to raise the same desires once again
So I avoid it.

If others can listen to it and maintain a state of humility before Our Lord and not be inspired to transgress the limits then who I am I to condemn.

Although I will end that even if the music is of a good nature, you might still listen to it yearning for some positive inspiration (lyrics)  or uplifting if you are feeling down.

In that case why don't you just turn to the Quran?
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on December 29, 2015, 06:41:17 PM
Music is a blessing from God, music with lyrics remembering God is great, I prefer that our classical music.

I love Sufi music is very relaxing.

All in all I think it's like any blessing it can be and is misused. Especially pop music and gangsta rap, that stuff is painful to listen to.

My musical standard is either music remembering God, or instrumental.

I love the blues and classical, It relaxes me and stimulateS my mind

Music is not forbidden. One of the prophets David was a beautiful musician and poet and what a gift we have in the psalms
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Invalid777 on December 29, 2015, 06:46:57 PM
Music is a blessing from God, music with lyrics remembering God is great, I prefer that our classical music.

I love Sufi music is very relaxing.

All in all I think it's like any blessing it can be and is misused. Especially pop music and gangsta rap, that stuff is painful to listen to.

My musical standard is either music remembering God, or instrumental.

I love the blues and classical, It relaxes me and stimulateS my mind

Music is not forbidden. One of the prophets David was a beautiful musician and poet and what a gift we have in the psalms

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Jafar on December 29, 2015, 07:07:28 PM
It depends.. this music is very good!
(http://www.black-feelings.com/uploads/pics/Emancipate-yourself1431353530.jpg)

Now... won't you help me sing.... this song of freedom.....

https://youtu.be/OFGgbT_VasI
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on December 29, 2015, 11:15:19 PM
Music is a blessing from God, music with lyrics remembering God is great, I prefer that our classical music.

I love Sufi music is very relaxing.

All in all I think it's like any blessing it can be and is misused. Especially pop music and gangsta rap, that stuff is painful to listen to.

My musical standard is either music remembering God, or instrumental.

I love the blues and classical, It relaxes me and stimulateS my mind

Music is not forbidden. One of the prophets David was a beautiful musician and poet and what a gift we have in the psalms

I wouldn't go as far as calling  a prophet a poet.....
36:69
And not We taught him [the] poetry, and not it is befitting for him. Not it (is) except a Reminder and a Quran clear

69:41
And not it (is the) word (of) a poet; little (is) what you believe!

In fact it was the disbelievers that call prophets poet

52:30
Or (do) they say, "A poet, we wait for him a misfortune of time."

37:36
And they say, "Are we to leave our gods for a poet mad?"

21:5
Nay, they say, "Muddled dreams; nay, he (has) invented it; nay, he (is) a poet. So let him bring us a sign like what was sent (to) the former."


Be Careful not to utter that which Allah has sent down for it no authority.
Revelation is not poetry.
Prophets are not poets.

Looking at all these verses related to poetry does it not make you think anything?




Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: tlihawa on December 30, 2015, 12:37:42 AM
Music is good  ;D

Not because I'm a musician, but I consider the music is one of the God's signature. It's 12 notes pattern inline with the 19 metonic cycle which describe in Quran.

Quran talks about 19 cycle period related to leap year pattern in luni-solar calendar

74:29   A signal <lawwāḥatun> to human beings.
74:30   Upon it is nineteen.

74:31   And We have made the guardians of the Fire to be angels; and We did not make their prescribed number (of time period) <ʿiddatahum> except as a test for those who have rejected, so that those who were given the Book would understand, and those who have faith would be increased in faith, and so that those who have been given the Book and the believers do not have doubt, and so that those who have a sickness in their hearts and the rejecters would say: "What did God mean with an example such as this?" It is such that God misguides whom He wishes, and He guides whom He wishes. And none know the soldiers of your Lord except He; and it is but a reminder for human beings.


Here, you should treat the word 'iddatahum' as cycle of time period. Please check the same word used in 2:184, 2:185, 33:49, 65:1, and 65:4 to understand the context.

How's the music inline with the universe:

(http://www.jewfaq.org/graphics/keyboard.gif)

In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years. Adar I is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years of the cycle. The current cycle began in Jewish year 5758 (the year that began October 2, 1997). If you are musically inclined, you may find it helpful to remember this pattern of leap years by reference to the major scale: for each whole step there are two regular years and a leap year; for each half-step there is one regular year and a leap year. This is easier to understand when you examine the keyboard illustration below and see how it relates to the leap years above.

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on December 30, 2015, 01:16:33 AM
I wouldn't go as far as calling  a prophet a poet.....
36:69
And not We taught him [the] poetry, and not it is befitting for him. Not it (is) except a Reminder and a Quran clear

69:41
And not it (is the) word (of) a poet; little (is) what you believe!

In fact it was the disbelievers that call prophets poet

52:30
Or (do) they say, "A poet, we wait for him a misfortune of time."

37:36
And they say, "Are we to leave our gods for a poet mad?"

21:5
Nay, they say, "Muddled dreams; nay, he (has) invented it; nay, he (is) a poet. So let him bring us a sign like what was sent (to) the former."


Be Careful not to utter that which Allah has sent down for it no authority.
Revelation is not poetry.
Prophets are not poets.

Looking at all these verses related to poetry does it not make you think anything?

That's all talking about Muhammad. And the Quran.

I think some of the psalms were revealed but also some of them seem to be David's own thoughts. I.e poetry.

It's there something wrong with a prophet also being a poet?
Or any variety of artist?
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: huruf on December 30, 2015, 02:47:46 AM
The qquestion is not whether a prophet can be also be a poet, the quetion is, if he got revellations from God, or from anybody else, to know clearly which part of what he says is reveltion and which part is not.

AAnd what is not proper is that he should insert his own ideas o occurrencs in the revelations. He should keep them separate and transmit clearly what God orders himor her to  transmite as God's word, where it starts and where it ends, not mixing anything from him in it.

Tht is the case of the Qur'an. Whatever the prophet Myhammad may have said in his life, the Qur'an is transmitted in its integrality as revelation from God.

That is a thing that some people keep mixing up when speaking about setting the bible and the Qur'an on the same footing.

Salaam
 
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on December 30, 2015, 03:10:14 AM
The qquestion is not whether a prophet can be also be a poet, the quetion is, if he got revellations from God, or from anybody else, to know clearly which part of what he says is reveltion and which part is not.

AAnd what is not proper is that he should insert his own ideas o occurrencs in the revelations. He should keep them separate and transmit clearly what God orders himor her to  transmite as God's word, where it starts and where it ends, not mixing anything from him in it.

Tht is the case of the Qur'an. Whatever the prophet Myhammad may have said in his life, the Qur'an is transmitted in its integrality as revelation from God.

That is a thing that some people keep mixing up when speaking about setting the bible and the Qur'an on the same footing.

Salaam

Yes I agree but does the Quran ever say the psalms or zaboor was revealed by God?

To my knowledge it says 'we revealed to Moses and Jesus and WE GAVE David the psalms' or something similar.

I am not sure that the Quran calls the psalms a revelation. Although I could be wrong.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: huruf on December 30, 2015, 04:00:05 AM
The question in this case is whether what is puported in the bible to be this or that is the same thing tht the Qur'an speaks of. All we know  is that something was given to dawood, but what and its contents is, again, something else. The Qur'an does not say, but that is precisely the reason the Qur'an was revealed, to serve as a contrast so that we know what is from God nd what is not. If it matches what the Qur'an says, it is, if not it is not. That is the propr way, the other things should match the Qur'an and not, as has been done and i being done all the time, match the Qur'an to othr things, mainly the bible, taking the latter as the basis for the Qur'an and not th other way around.

Salaam
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: reel on December 31, 2015, 03:03:10 AM
Just like bad words, there are bad songs. But that does not mean music itself is bad. Quran doesn't prohibit listening to it. I consider the following to be bad:
Black metal: Not all of it is bad. However, most songs from it contain violent words about Christianity and some are homage to satan. Why be entertained by something that bashes a religion aimlessly? As for satan, that doesn't need explanation.
Gangsta/sexual rap: Because they promote criminal lifestyle. By the way, I don't even consider rap to be music.

At the end of the day, words should be looked into to understand whether a song is listenable. I myself is heavily focused on lyrics. I am into metal and gothic, but would always avoid any song that refers to satan or contains pagan chant. Music has all kinds of benefits. You can actually memorize class notes by singing (http://www.afidated.com/2015/04/bizarre-exam-preparation-techniques.html) them. It can also relax the mind.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Study on February 08, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
Old topic, I know.

Just wanted to clarify for others who may still read.

10:59 Say: "Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?" Say: "Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God?"

7:32 Say: "Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

You can't make unlawful something that wasn't forbidden by God.
Of course insults and stuff aren't acceptable through music.
Just like smoking isn't helal because smoking is never mentioned in the Quran.
We know it is unhealthy, and we know that we have to take care of our bodies and not inflict ourselves harm.

No where in the Quran does it say that music is haraam.
It is one of the nice things of earth, even animals sing and enjoy this gift.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on June 30, 2016, 04:46:36 AM
Old topic, I know.

Just wanted to clarify for others who may still read.

10:59 Say: "Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?" Say: "Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God?"

7:32 Say: "Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?" Say: "They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection." It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

You can't make unlawful something that wasn't forbidden by God.
Of course insults and stuff aren't acceptable through music.
Just like smoking isn't helal because smoking is never mentioned in the Quran.
We know it is unhealthy, and we know that we have to take care of our bodies and not inflict ourselves harm.

No where in the Quran does it say that music is haraam.
It is one of the nice things of earth, even animals sing and enjoy this gift.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that smoking is haram.. let me emphasize a point you made...

You can't make unlawful something that wasn't forbidden by God.

then you go on to presume to make something unlawful that God has not..

Peace..
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on July 06, 2016, 05:14:03 PM
Nowhere in the Quran does it say that smoking is haram.. let me emphasize a point you made...

You can't make unlawful something that wasn't forbidden by God.

then you go on to presume to make something unlawful that God has not..

Peace..

To inhale smoke from cigarettes(which besides tobacco contain several toxins and harmful chemicals), or marijuana is to consume intoxicants. These alter your physiological state, some in a varying degree from others and are harmful to you in various ways.
Allah tells us to avoid intoxicants so we may succeed.

Peace
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on July 08, 2016, 06:32:52 AM
To inhale smoke from cigarettes(which besides tobacco contain several toxins and harmful chemicals), or marijuana is to consume intoxicants. These alter your physiological state, some in a varying degree from others and are harmful to you in various ways.
Allah tells us to avoid intoxicants so we may succeed.

Peace

Our lord, in fact says:
2:219
يسلونك عن الخمر والميسر قل فيهما اثم كبير ومنفع للناس واثمهما اكبر من نفعهما ويسلونك ماذا ينفقون قل العفو كذلك يبين الله لكم الءايت لعلكم تتفكرون

my interpretation:
they are asking you regarding the intoxicants, Say: in them both is a great sin, and benefits to the human beings, but sin of them both is greater than the benefit of them both.

5:90
يايها الذين ءامنوا انما الخمر والميسر والانصاب والازلم رجس من عمل الشيطن فاجتنبوه لعلكم تفلحون

my interpretation (i dont know some of theese words):
oh you who trust in god completely, only(?) the intoxicants, and the gambling, and the fixed portions, and the arrows(raffling?/divining? arrows) are an impurity of the satans doing, so all of you avoid it,  so you may be successfull

a few points on this..
1. this translation is my own limited understanding, and i would encourage people to verify things for themselves, and also share any better understanding they have with me :)

2. the innama in this verse, in my knowledge means 'only' although, it can have different meanings depending on its grammatical context, so i will, if god has willed, have to check this.

3. i think that 'fixed portions' is a good translation, considering the root, and also considering the context of god mentioning in the quran that people define fixed portions of meat of certain animals, and forbid such and such etc, and god was disapproving of this. though again, i have limited knowledge. in regards to the arrows, i dont know this word, i will have to look into it, but i feel as if it is talking of raffling food?

4. the first one is talking specificaly about 2 definite intoxicants it seems, as they are definite, and in my understanding, and seemingly the only fit with the context, they are later mentioned with a dual object pronoun, which means there is two of them. (beer and wine prehaps? i am not familiar with the culture at the time)

5. what/who are we to avoid? in my understanding of the grammar of this, it is saying we are to avoid the work of the satan.


I agree, we should avoid intoxicants. i think we should take gods words on face value though, as much as possible, and not distort them. i.e

God tells us to avoid 'the work of satan' not alcahol, or music or anything else.
God also tells us that 2 certain intoxicants are more sinful, or a greater sin, than a benefit.

beyond that, it is up to us to, god willing, follow his guidance as to how to apply theese verses in other areas or to things that are not directly covered by it.

let us also not forget, god sends his messengers to people, speaking in their language, theese people had a clear understanding of what intoxicants he was talking about
and also we cannot attribute things to god that are not true. and i think we should try our best to represent every argument in the best possible way, because if we say 'god tells us to avoid alcahol' but it in fact does not, but rather tells us to avoid the satans work, then i think this can lead to people not wanting to believe other things we say, or not being as accepting of something which may be a true, and solid argument

Peace
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on July 08, 2016, 03:47:09 PM
Our lord, in fact says:
2:219
يسلونك عن الخمر والميسر قل فيهما اثم كبير ومنفع للناس واثمهما اكبر من نفعهما ويسلونك ماذا ينفقون قل العفو كذلك يبين الله لكم الءايت لعلكم تتفكرون

my interpretation:
they are asking you regarding the intoxicants, Say: in them both is a great sin, and benefits to the human beings, but sin of them both is greater than the benefit of them both.

5:90
يايها الذين ءامنوا انما الخمر والميسر والانصاب والازلم رجس من عمل الشيطن فاجتنبوه لعلكم تفلحون

my interpretation (i dont know some of theese words):
oh you who trust in god completely, only(?) the intoxicants, and the gambling, and the fixed portions, and the arrows(raffling?/divining? arrows) are an impurity of the satans doing, so all of you avoid it,  so you may be successfull

a few points on this..
1. this translation is my own limited understanding, and i would encourage people to verify things for themselves, and also share any better understanding they have with me :)

2. the innama in this verse, in my knowledge means 'only' although, it can have different meanings depending on its grammatical context, so i will, if god has willed, have to check this.

3. i think that 'fixed portions' is a good translation, considering the root, and also considering the context of god mentioning in the quran that people define fixed portions of meat of certain animals, and forbid such and such etc, and god was disapproving of this. though again, i have limited knowledge. in regards to the arrows, i dont know this word, i will have to look into it, but i feel as if it is talking of raffling food?

4. the first one is talking specificaly about 2 definite intoxicants it seems, as they are definite, and in my understanding, and seemingly the only fit with the context, they are later mentioned with a dual object pronoun, which means there is two of them. (beer and wine prehaps? i am not familiar with the culture at the time)

5. what/who are we to avoid? in my understanding of the grammar of this, it is saying we are to avoid the work of the satan.


I agree, we should avoid intoxicants. i think we should take gods words on face value though, as much as possible, and not distort them. i.e

God tells us to avoid 'the work of satan' not alcahol, or music or anything else.
God also tells us that 2 certain intoxicants are more sinful, or a greater sin, than a benefit.

beyond that, it is up to us to, god willing, follow his guidance as to how to apply theese verses in other areas or to things that are not directly covered by it.

let us also not forget, god sends his messengers to people, speaking in their language, theese people had a clear understanding of what intoxicants he was talking about
and also we cannot attribute things to god that are not true. and i think we should try our best to represent every argument in the best possible way, because if we say 'god tells us to avoid alcahol' but it in fact does not, but rather tells us to avoid the satans work, then i think this can lead to people not wanting to believe other things we say, or not being as accepting of something which may be a true, and solid argument

Peace

Peace, check the discussion in this thread http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608164.0 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608164.0)
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on July 08, 2016, 06:57:04 PM
Peace, check the discussion in this thread http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608164.0 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608164.0)

peace
what exactly were you trying to draw my attention to?

if that intoxicants is more than just wine, or any specific thing, i agree completely, and i do not intend to argue against that,

i was simply making the observation that it seems the first verse is talking about 2 things specificaly, as i said it is definite, and referred to with a dual object pronoun.

it in not my intention to say the whole quran is talking about this when refering to intoxicants, because i dont know of clear proof for this.

also a correction, i believe i made an error interpreting the 5:90 as 'only theese things are the work of satan' instead of 'theese things are only the work of satan' as i think is what is intended.

HP_TECH if you could be more specific about what you are referring me to, that would be helpfull, as i saw some reasonable posts by you there, however alot of that topic is simply conjecture.

peace be with you

EDIT: i made an error when i missed 'the gambling' in the quranic text, hence my misunderstanding of what the dual object pronoun was prefering to
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on July 08, 2016, 07:28:14 PM
peace
what exactly were you trying to draw my attention to?

if that intoxicants is more than just wine, or any specific thing, i agree completely, and i do not intend to argue against that,

i was simply making the observation that it seems the first verse is talking about 2 things specificaly, as i said it is definite, and referred to with a dual object pronoun.

it in not my intention to say the whole quran is talking about this when refering to intoxicants, because i dont know of clear proof for this.

also a correction, i believe i made an error interpreting the 5:90 as 'only theese things are the work of satan' instead of 'theese things are only the work of satan' as i think is what is intended.

HP_TECH if you could be more specific about what you are referring me to, that would be helpfull, as i saw some reasonable posts by you there, however alot of that topic is simply conjecture.

peace be with you

Peace Timotheus,

Ahh I see what you are struggling with.
In your earlier post you when you cited 2:219 you omitted a very important word from the ayaat.
Where did you get that translation from?

The verse reads
2:219
They ask you about [the] intoxicants and [the] games of chance Say, "In both of them (is) a sin great, and (some) benefits for [the] people. But sin of both of them (is) greater than (the) benefit of (the) two." And they ask you what they (should) spend. Say, "The surplus." Thus makes clear Allah to you [the] Verses so that you may ponder,

This is a translation from islamawakened.com: http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm

Corpus.quran.com is also a great source. It shows you transliteration and it is better for study
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=219

So intoxicants and games of chance(gambling) are the two specific definite things.

I was pointing you to my arguments. You said it exactly, that intoxicants do not relate to something specific as wine but anything that can alter your judgement or physiological state.
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on July 08, 2016, 07:39:59 PM
Peace Timotheus,

Ahh I see what you are struggling with.
In your earlier post you when you cited 2:219 you omitted a very important word from the ayaat.
Where did you get that translation from?

The verse reads
2:219
They ask you about [the] intoxicants and [the] games of chance Say, "In both of them (is) a sin great, and (some) benefits for [the] people. But sin of both of them (is) greater than (the) benefit of (the) two." And they ask you what they (should) spend. Say, "The surplus." Thus makes clear Allah to you [the] Verses so that you may ponder,

This is a translation from islamawakened.com: http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/219/default.htm

Corpus.quran.com is also a great source. It shows you transliteration and it is better for study
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=219

So intoxicants and games of chance(gambling) are the two specific definite things.

I was pointing you to my arguments. You said it exactly, that intoxicants do not relate to something specific as wine but anything that can alter your judgement or physiological state.

Peace,
alhamdullilah, i did not realize i had made that error, i must have missed that word, by the will of god. now i see where i went wrong. i will have to edit my posts. my translation is from my own understanding, as i find often (as perfectly demonstrated by me, lol) people can miss important points, or present things in an unclear way, which is easily to misinterpret. glory be to God, he has reminded me not to hasten with my understanding, and to be sure about what i say.

Peace,

edit: hmm it will not let me edit my original post now.. !? :(
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: HP_TECH on July 09, 2016, 03:57:20 PM
Peace,
alhamdullilah, i did not realize i had made that error, i must have missed that word, by the will of god. now i see where i went wrong. i will have to edit my posts. my translation is from my own understanding, as i find often (as perfectly demonstrated by me, lol) people can miss important points, or present things in an unclear way, which is easily to misinterpret. glory be to God, he has reminded me not to hasten with my understanding, and to be sure about what i say.

Peace,

edit: hmm it will not let me edit my original post now.. !? :(

No big deal we are but human...
Title: Re: is music good, good and good .......?
Post by: Timotheus on July 09, 2016, 04:05:24 PM
No big deal we are but human...

Peace, indeed, we are prone to error it seems. i will, god willing, have to make sure i check better in the future. masha'Allah