Free Minds

Community Needs => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 07:07:34 AM

Title: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 07:07:34 AM
Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life
2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick
3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature
4. female and female cannot have babies as well
5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture
6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden
7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: kgwithnob on July 19, 2013, 08:20:26 AM
Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life
2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick
3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature
4. female and female cannot have babies as well
5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture
6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden
7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

I do agree with you 100%. May GOD bless you and lead us all to His straight path.

Peace,
Khalil
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: diamantinehoneybunch on July 19, 2013, 08:25:24 AM
Peace,

You are leaving Islam? Then what faith are you going to hold/have?

Bro, just because some people here calling you bigots? They have affected your faith? And now you are leaving Islam because of these LGBT supporter bigots?

It is your right to choose religion.
If you are leaving Islam then what religion/faith are you going to embrace? Catholicism? Protestants? Unitarian? Methodist? Atheism? Agnosticism?

Tbh I also do not consider homosexuality a right thing. It is either a type of mental illness or stupidity/egotism. Factually homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness until some gay bigots protested against APA in around 1971.

Or is "I'm leaving Islam" a sarcasm?
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 08:38:30 AM
Or is "I'm leaving Islam" a sarcasm?

It is not sarcasm, I'm 100% serious about this. If they prove that I'm wrong I will keep my promise. But they can't do that, I'm 100% sure.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: huruf on July 19, 2013, 09:14:38 AM
The problem is the word "natural". ?What does it mean? First define it. Otherwise it is empty talk.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 19, 2013, 09:47:02 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

I'll insert my comments in red in the original post, then present additional evidence after the post.

Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life

Neither can a post-menopausal woman nor a sterile person produce babies. Sex is not limited to procreation.

2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick

HIV and other STDs are not limited to homosexuals. Promiscuity and not sexual orientation is largely to blame for STDs.

3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature

ALLAH has created homosexual animals! Homosexuals are not naturally sickly in any case.

4. female and female cannot have babies as well

Through artificial insemination, this *is* possible.

5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture

AQ is complete and fully detailed. Also, 16:116.

6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden

Burden is on you to show this.

7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley

What do other religions have to do with the Deen?  

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

However... Reform Judaism, Unitarian Universalism, United Church of Christ, some denominations of Vedanta, and Metropolitan Community Church accept homosexuals, for example of non Satanist religions.

8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

There is no counterproof either, this is a moot point.

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

If the people left their mates, then they are adulterers.

2:221 And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe. For a believing female servant is better than a polytheist even if she attracts you. And do not marry the male polytheists until they believe. For a believing male servant is better than a polytheist even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while GOD is inviting to the Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.

Seeing that the audience is male, it seems that male to male marriage is encouraged!

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

Approaching the men is acting on homosexuality--not that acting lustful to other than one's spouse is considered acceptable anyway.

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

This is easily disputed in relation to forbidding homosexuality. Homosexuality existed well before the people of Lot. Other crimes are also mentioned.

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

Your oath was made on impulse. Nobody wants to drive you from the Deen. However, truth will not be held hostage by your oath!

2:225 GOD will not call you to account for your casual oaths, but He will call you to account for what has entered your hearts. GOD is Forgiving, Compassionate.

Here is refutation to "homosexuality is not natural":

Acknowledge that AQ is not ridiculous.

Acknowledge that physical evidence is not ridiculous.

Refute that ALLAH created people differently, as is stated in AQ 30:22.

Refute that ALLAH gave us signs in nature, as is stated in AQ 2:26 and 2:164.

Refute that ALLAH created homosexual animals, as are found in nature.

Refute that AQ 29:29 lists reasons aside from male homosexuality that the people of Lot might have been destroyed.

Refute that the women among the people of Lot were innocent of male-male sex.

Refute that the women among the people of Lot were destroyed alongside the men among the people of Lot.

Refute that AQ 2:221 is addressed to males.

Refute that there is no compulsion in the Deen, as is stated in AQ 2:256.

Refute that homosexuality is depicted in cave paintings that physically exist that have been dated to be around 12,000 years old.

Refute that homosexuality existed at least 5,000 years ago among humans in Mesopotamia, as is found among physical existing evidence.

Refute that the people of Lot were destroyed around 1953 BCE.

Refute that circa 3000 BCE is before 1953 BCE.

Refute that over a thousand years span the time between the recorded homosexual acts in Mesopotamia and the time that the people of Lot were destroyed.

Refute that AQ 7:80 refers to lewdness "such as none of the worlds had done before."

Acknowledge that no person alive was present among the people of Lot.

Refute that AQ 17:36 states not to uphold what one has no knowledge of.

Acknowledge that physical evidence can comprise knowledge.

Acknowledge that knowledge is better than conjecture.

Refute that AQ 10:59 and 16:116 state that it is wrong to forbid what ALLAH has not forbidden, that doing so is a lie, and that those who invent lies about ALLAH will not succeed.

2:26 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say: "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.

Wouldn't you know it? There are homosexual mosquitos!

Not only this but:

"... No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

source: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

There is also the "problem" of homosexuality being attraction towards the same sex--whether acted upon or not.

Homosexuality seems to be a non-issue, at least for the Deen.

Think about it.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: kgwithnob on July 19, 2013, 09:51:23 AM
The problem is the word "natural". ?What does it mean? First define it. Otherwise it is empty talk.

It means, it is completely against the GRAIN of the EVOLUTION. Sexuality is an evolutionary phenomenon, necessitating the existence and participation of opposite sexes, i.e. a male and a female for successful continuation of the species.

Peace,
Khalil       
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Earthdom on July 19, 2013, 10:00:33 AM
Peace Sonny and all.

First your action for leaving Islam is too hasty, I think.

Actually I never really hate you, but what I hate from you is for the way you get discussion.
The proper example is in the Notsure's homosexual thread.In that thread you only pursue your hatred, emotion, abandoning the ethics by repeated same verses in many posts by avoiding another member's post such like @Emil which actually gave you the bright evidences.

Yeah maybe it's your type:Emotion first then thinking.Your emotion easily raised, so thats why you cannot properly understanding another member's advice like @Emil's instead keeping gave the same arguments.

This is NotSure's thread if you forgotten: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605357.0

I think that thread is enough to gave you some points such like:

7:80   And Lot, he said to his people: "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"

If what Lot said about lewdness is homosexual , then it will contradict to the fact

Recently Abdul-Hadi and Indelwyn posting some evidences, if homosexual already happened before Sodom's era.So the lewdness commited by Sodom is not homosexual.

The more important is if you bring the verses for your base, first you must investigate the verse's translation, because you may already knew if some Sunni manmade translation still contains innovation which will fit for sectarian fatwa agenda.

In the last, I even didn't care if you pro or anti homosexual, but atleast respect someone who have different argument from you.

Btw please forgive me if my words insulting you  :handshake:.

Salaam


Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 10:09:34 AM
Think about it.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:
~Abdul-Hadi

I said give me the  proof not speculations. As Einstein said: “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 10:11:47 AM

Recently Abdul-Hadi and Indelwyn posting some evidences, if homosexual already happened before Sodom's era.So the lewdness commited by Sodom is not homosexual.


This is not thread about sodom and gomorrah. You guys giving me nothing but speculations, what if, what if, what if.... What if you just give me damn proof.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: mmkhan on July 19, 2013, 10:18:30 AM
If the people left their mates, then they are adulterers.

2:221 And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe. For a believing female servant is better than a polytheist even if she attracts you. And do not marry the male polytheists until they believe. For a believing male servant is better than a polytheist even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while GOD is inviting to the Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.

Seeing that the audience is male, it seems that male to male marriage is encouraged!

Peace,

I think there is a misunderstanding.

2:221 وَ لَا تَنۡکِحُوا الۡمُشۡرِکٰتِ حَتّٰی یُؤۡمِنَّ ؕ وَ لَاَمَۃٌ مُّؤۡمِنَۃٌ خَیۡرٌ مِّنۡ مُّشۡرِکَۃٍ وَّ لَوۡ اَعۡجَبَتۡکُمۡ ۚ وَ لَا تُنۡکِحُوا الۡمُشۡرِکِیۡنَ حَتّٰی یُؤۡمِنُوۡا ؕ وَ لَعَبۡدٌ مُّؤۡمِنٌ خَیۡرٌ مِّنۡ مُّشۡرِکٍ وَّ لَوۡ اَعۡجَبَکُمۡ ؕ اُولٰٓئِکَ یَدۡعُوۡنَ اِلَی النَّارِ ۚۖ وَ اللّٰہُ یَدۡعُوۡۤا اِلَی الۡجَنَّۃِ وَ الۡمَغۡفِرَۃِ بِاِذۡنِہٖ ۚ وَ یُبَیِّنُ اٰیٰتِہٖ لِلنَّاسِ لَعَلَّہُمۡ یَتَذَکَّرُوۡنَ
2:221 And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember.

If you look at the Arabic words, both words are not same. One is tAnkihoo and other is tUnkihoo, so there must be a difference. The translation above does not show you any difference. Please take a look at other translations here (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=221) which shows you the difference.

تَنۡکِحُوا - tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
تُنۡکِحُوا - tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

So as per my understanding same sex marriage or homosexuality is not encouraged by alQuraan, inshaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 10:27:30 AM
تَنۡکِحُوا - tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
تُنۡکِحُوا - tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

So as per my understanding same sex marriage or homosexuality is not encouraged by alQuraan, inshaAllah.


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan

I wish I speak arabic, I would probably gave them even more proof, is hard to translate Quran by translator and translations  :)

Thanks for making it clear brother.

EDIT: Sometimes I overreact because people twisting the words to fit they "western" view of islam. peace
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: mmkhan on July 19, 2013, 10:31:28 AM
I wish I speak arabic, I would probably gave them even more proof, is hard to translate Quran by translator and translations  :)

Thanks for making it clear brother.

Peace,

You are welcome brother.
And you don't need to be an Arabic speaker to understand it, just need an eye to look at the difference in writing :D


May Allah bless you :pr
mmKhan
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 19, 2013, 10:40:30 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

This is not thread about sodom and gomorrah. You guys giving me nothing but speculations, what if, what if, what if.... What if you just give me damn proof.

Over a dozen relevant Ayah have been quoted. Are these the "speculations" you refer to?

Who mentioned the people of Lot first?  ;) Why ignore them now?

Peer reviewed science is pretty far from speculation. Logic is not speculation, either. Speculation would be taking a position, ignoring evidence that disputes the position, and only accepting evidence that supports the position.

Evidence (not proof!) has been presented--and presented only after categorically addressing your points. PROVE to the other members that you are willing to use your brain to consider the evidence before accepting or rejecting it.

Truth requires neither emotion nor preconceived notions to stand.

@mmkhan: Thank you for clearing that up. :handshake: Will you please send a suggestion to amend the FM translation?

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Noon waalqalami on July 19, 2013, 10:52:53 AM
If you look at the Arabic words, both words are not same. One is tAnkihoo and other is tUnkihoo, so there must be a difference.

تَنۡکِحُوا - tAnkihoo = Do not marry.
تُنۡکِحُوا - tUnkihoo = Do not give in marriage.

Peace -- If you strip diacritical marks added in Qur'an years later there no difference in meaning. There's slight difference with diacritical marks depending if address is to female or male and clearly evident from context...

2:221
ولا and not تنكحوا thou marry yeh (address to male) المشركات the idolaters (feminine plural)...
ولا and not تنكحوا thou marry yeh (address to female) المشركىن the idolaters (masculine plural)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 11:01:20 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

Over a dozen relevant Ayah have been quoted. Are these the "speculations" you refer to?

Who mentioned the people of Lot first?  ;) Why ignore them now?

Peer reviewed science is pretty far from speculation. Logic is not speculation, either. Speculation would be taking a position, ignoring evidence that disputes the position, and only accepting evidence that supports the position.

Evidence (not proof!) has been presented--and presented only after categorically addressing your points. PROVE to the other members that you are willing to use your brain to consider the evidence before accepting or rejecting it.

Truth requires neither emotion nor preconceived notions to stand.

@mmkhan: Thank you for clearing that up. :handshake: Will you please send a suggestion to amend the FM translation?

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

You are giving me mosquitos as example, comparing them to humans  :rotfl:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/eclipse6000/YouGottaBeKiddingMe.jpg)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 19, 2013, 11:08:58 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

You are giving me mosquitos as example, comparing them to humans  :rotfl:

Actually, no, I'm not kidding. Mosquito fits beautifully into 2:26; however homosexuality is found in ALL known species capable of heterosexual acts. Every. Known. Species.

2:26 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say: "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: munas on July 19, 2013, 11:10:25 AM
you're hinging on those reasons highlighted as well as interpretations that don't make sense historically (i mean there ain't ever been one gay before sodom & gomorrah??)?? are you sure you're ready to comprise your faith for your argument? this should be good.

Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 11:15:01 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

Actually, no, I'm not kidding. Mosquito fits beautifully into 2:26; however homosexuality is found in ALL known species capable of heterosexual acts. Every. Known. Species.

There are even types of female shark that does not need male to reproduce, so according to you female does not need a man, she can just go to doctor and ask to make her pregnant withous having sex.?

You think that God was talking about homosexuals in that verse? - He could just say that man could marry man and thats it. I think you are taking stuff out of context and twisting the words to fit your view of the world.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 11:25:55 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

Actually, no, I'm not kidding. Mosquito fits beautifully into 2:26; however homosexuality is found in ALL known species capable of heterosexual acts. Every. Known. Species.

2:26 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say: "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
(http://i.imgur.com/YReI0.jpg)

I have googling about this, turns out its a junk made by gay people.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: mmkhan on July 19, 2013, 11:34:59 AM
@mmkhan: Thank you for clearing that up. :handshake: Will you please send a suggestion to amend the FM translation?

Peace brother,

You are welcome :handshake:
InshaAllah I will suggest the admins to amend the FM translation about 2:221.

EDIT: Done! You can see here (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602254.msg332357#msg332357).


May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Wakas on July 19, 2013, 12:21:06 PM
I have not read this thread, but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Twin_studies

Quote
...it is possible to conclude that, given the difference in sexuality in so many sets of identical twins, sexual orientation cannot be purely caused by genetics.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 19, 2013, 12:55:19 PM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:


I have googling about this, turns out its a junk made by gay people.

You must have missed the earlier link; here it is again...with additional support:

source: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

http://www.biolbull.org/content/149/2/365.short

http://rierc.org/social/paper162.pdf

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

For in depth study, here is a link to a book that details many of these homosexual animals:

http://www.amazon.com/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X

There is no doubt that homosexuality is common in the natural world.

Psychology and medicine also now accept homosexuality as normal.

In any case, nobody is going to "catch the gay" for their viewpoints, lol.  :)

These discussions are not new on FM, have you considered previous threads on this subject matter?

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

You must have missed the earlier link; here it is again...with additional support:

You answer to my question is probably the most pathetic answer I recieved in my life. Basicaly, Quran mentioned mosquitous and now you claim that Quran is actually allowing homosexuality just because of some mutation of mosquitous in forests of Amazon which can be false as well, internet is full of shit. You are pathetic like anyone who try to prove that homosexuality is natural.
If this is the best you can provide than I think I will stay in islam for a long time to come.
Just pathetic
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: savage_carrot on July 19, 2013, 01:55:21 PM
I think he's trying to tell you what huruf was trying to tell you, i.e. there is no natural/unnatural at play here. It either is or isn't...if moustached mosquitoes (really? I had no idea mosquitoes could be gay) are humping other manly mosquitoes then seriously, nature is either enamored of the village people or it just is what it is...a natural occurrence occurring naturally in nature.

If someone was to say that something must be going wrong for them to do what they're doing, then by all means, please lets figure out what that is. Maybe we can find the Rainbow Mosquito Association while we're at it too.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 19, 2013, 02:32:35 PM
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Peace sonny,

Contrarily, the is also no solid proof that people are not born gay.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: es on July 19, 2013, 02:37:24 PM
Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life
2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick
3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature
4. female and female cannot have babies as well
5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture
6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden
7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

Salaam Brother Sonny,

Are you homosexual?

Sajda.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Bender on July 19, 2013, 02:39:47 PM
If this is the best you can provide than I think I will stay in islam for a long time to come.

Salaamun alayka brother,

Just curious, but what has homosexuality to do with your faith in Allah (if that is what you meant with islam)?

I mean if one is able to show you clearly that according to The Quran homosexuality is ok, are you then going to loose your faith in the judgement of Allah?
I mean for me if someone will prove to me that the whole Quran is a fraud, a man made book then for sure I will not loose a bit of my faith in Allah.

anyway this comment is of course only significant if you mean with islam "faith in Allah".

salaam,
Bender
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Azz on July 19, 2013, 03:08:27 PM
Sometimes I overreact because people twisting the words to fit they "western" view of islam. peace

You're not alone in that - though in regards to this topic in particular, the "westernizing" argument bugs me a little. It's only relatively recently that the west (generally speaking) has been supportive of homosexuality - as a matter of fact this sorta behaviour probably has more of a history in the east than anything else. For better or for worse, there is actually a history of gay muslims in Arabia and China. Atleast for China, it wasn't until western ethics became more ingrained into the society that homosexuality began to be condemned by the people...alongside it not being entirely accurate, the westernizing thing is only creating an unnecessary "us vs them" mindset, notably so in a topic that is still in the early stages of study.

At this moment in time, I also believe that same sex marriage is condemned, though I'm a little confused by the view on the general idea of homosexuality itself (and sex before marriage, though I personally am against it)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Man of Faith on July 19, 2013, 06:17:53 PM
Salaam brother Sonny,

Are you going to leave your God and His religion based on the opinion of others?

Let the gay supporters have their way. You know that the Quran indirectly despises homosexuality so keep it at this, perchance God "thought" it was so obvious that He did not mention it. You cannot leave the Truth because of the ignorance of others. In a verse God told "have sex in the His way (the natural way as we were created)" or something like that, is that not a hint?

I have many things I frustratingly discuss on this forum, but I try to be patient and steadfast.

On the other hand, a minority of people simply seem to be born homosexual which may be a trial of sorts. There also seems to exist homosexuality in nature among animals. But we cannot openly encourage homosexuality and some people engage in homosexual acts while not being homosexual (and this may be what Lut's people did too). It seems that many humans can turn on seeing the bodies of the same sex via imagination but we have to refrain from such temptations. It was simply not in the design of God for two same sex people to engage in intercourse or other intimate relations. But we have to take care of those who are homosexual by birth and not mistreat them, perhaps like someone with a mental disability (and not mock them for it). You need to stand it.

You need to remember that the Quran says most people are not believers which indicate a grand majority. You are very alone and even among those who follow God alone there are many people who are destined for Hell because they interpret the scripture through wishful thinking and the vice. But you still need to stay with those who believe and be kind and open because among the black sheep there are some white sheep, if you know what I mean.

God bless you
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on July 19, 2013, 06:41:04 PM
Anyone can say anyone else is a wishful thinker. Non-religious people will say many muslims including us and any religious people are wishful thinkers. What matters is someone's intent and whether they hold onto bitterness and things like that.

God says He is subtle, and there are subtle hints in the Quran about the nature of belief and God's Mercy in relation to it as per what Isa states on the Day of Judgement in Surah 5.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: diamantinehoneybunch on July 19, 2013, 08:15:26 PM
Salaam.

"Women who are married to women can still get pregnant by semen/sperm donation"
Who are the donators? MEN! Not the women themselves.

"Not only gays can get HIV. It is also because of promiscuity."
Promiscuity is also not a good thing.

Sorry if I am offending LGBT supporters here. I am not really against homosexuals but I just don't believe that homosexuality is okay for humans. I know that there are some men who were born to be transvestites (naturally, not the fake one) but these people are only interested im girly/feminine things esp pink color. Many of them just stay single throughout their life and are never interested to get married. Many of them are active in make-ups and fashion-designing.

:peace:
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 19, 2013, 11:23:44 PM
You need to remember that the Quran says most people are not believers which indicate a grand majority. You are very alone and even among those who follow God alone there are many people who are destined for Hell because they interpret the scripture through wishful thinking and the vice. But you still need to stay with those who believe and be kind and open because among the black sheep there are some white sheep, if you know what I mean.

I know, you always have a good advice  ;)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Khaliq on July 20, 2013, 02:13:23 AM
I've got to say I'm with Abdul-Hadi on this one; homosexuality is found in nature and has been observed in hundreds of species.

Ducks, dolphins, giraffes, the Japanese macaque (I always knew it as the snow monkey; had to google its name), penguins (remember the kerfuffle on about two gay penguins on TV a few years ago?), sheep, dogs and even lions have been observed as homosexual. Even fruit flies. Bonobos are bisexual, they hump each other like crazy and over the slightest thing. Scientists have noticed many others; these are just off the top of my head.

You don't get much more natural than found in dozens of species.

My cousin is homosexual; he said to another member of the family that he doesn't know why some people think it's a choice. It's as much a choice for him as it is for us heteros to "choose" to be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex. Can you imagine choosing to be picked on, discriminated against, and marginalized? It's little wonder so many homosexuals either stop practising their religion or leave it altogether.

So we're left with few options here. Either God is not all-knowing or all-powerful with these (astaghfirullah) or it's not being interpreted correctly by man; I choose the latter. God (swt) asks us as early as Surah al-Baqarah, "afala ta'qilun?" -- will you not use your intellect? And with the recent increase in observation in this subject, I feel we have little choice but to accept it.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 20, 2013, 02:50:51 AM
Peace sonny,

Life may not be as simple as we would like sometimes:


This was copied from wikipedia

Humans Main article: Intersex


Aside from having an ambiguous-looking external genitalia, true hermaphroditism in humans differs from pseudohermaphroditism in which the person's karyotype has both XX and XY chromosome pairs (47XXY, 46XX/46XY, 46XX/47XXY or 45X/XY mosaic) and having both testicular and ovarian tissue. One possible pathophysiologic explanation of this rare phenomenon is a parthenogenetic division of a haploid ovum into two haploid ova. Upon fertilization of the two ova by two sperm cells (one carrying an X and the other carrying a Y chromosome), the two fertilized ova are then fused together resulting in a person having dual genitalial, gonadal (ovotestes) and genetic sex.

Another common cause of hermaphroditism is the crossing over of the SRY from the Y chromosome to the X chromosome during meiosis. The SRY is then activated in only certain areas, causing development of testes in some areas by beginning a series of events starting with the upregulation of SOX9, and in other areas not being active (causing the growth of ovarian tissues). Thus, testicular and ovarian tissues will both be present in the same individual

There is a picture of an intersex person here for those who would like to see it, but
be forewarned it may be offensive, it is a person with both sex organs.

scroll down, and on the right you will see the picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans

The subject of the series, whose name was never released, was an intersex person with a male build and stature, but may have self-identified as female. The subject had a small, probably hypospadic, penis, rudimentary scrotum, and male pubic hair pattern. The subject also had a retracted or rudimentary clitoral hood and vaginal opening.[1] In most photographs the subject's face and breasts are covered.[6]



Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: BornAgain on July 20, 2013, 04:08:20 AM
Salaam,

Don't let what others believe influence your own faith. What the majority believes does not necessarily mean it is contained in the Qur'aan. Firmly hold on to your belief (provided that you are not causing any harms to others), and let the rest bark. Essentially you are responsible to and judged by God, and not other human beings.

For me personally, simply having a homosexual tendency is not a sin because some people are really born with it. That being said, I don't believe that engaging in homosexual acts is compatible with the Qur'aan. Two different things here. I guess being born a homosexual is a trial in life for some people (a very difficult trial, that is), but that does not necessarily justify homosexual acts.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: huruf on July 20, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
I've got to say I'm with Abdul-Hadi on this one; homosexuality is found in nature and has been observed in hundreds of species.

Ducks, dolphins, giraffes, the Japanese macaque (I always knew it as the snow monkey; had to google its name), penguins (remember the kerfuffle on about two gay penguins on TV a few years ago?), sheep, dogs and even lions have been observed as homosexual. Even fruit flies. Bonobos are bisexual, they hump each other like crazy and over the slightest thing. Scientists have noticed many others; these are just off the top of my head.

You don't get much more natural than found in dozens of species.

My cousin is homosexual; he said to another member of the family that he doesn't know why some people think it's a choice. It's as much a choice for him as it is for us heteros to "choose" to be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex. Can you imagine choosing to be picked on, discriminated against, and marginalized? It's little wonder so many homosexuals either stop practising their religion or leave it altogether.

So we're left with few options here. Either God is not all-knowing or all-powerful with these (astaghfirullah) or it's not being interpreted correctly by man; I choose the latter. God (swt) asks us as early as Surah al-Baqarah, "afala ta'qilun?" -- will you not use your intellect? And with the recent increase in observation in this subject, I feel we have little choice but to accept it.


It is not a universal law: some people do not choose but many people do choose. Many people do not have the kind of reasons you say to pick to have realtions with the same sex. They do choose to have realtionships with the same sex. I agree that for some it is not a choice, but that is not valid for all that do have those relations, and from what I know, for many it is something they choose, and if they chose to have relations with women they would have them with no problem, but somesex has its own pull from the lust point of view.

Also there is a grey area where it may not be so much a question of choice but a question of sociological conditioning, like having your emotional make up thwarted by being forced into a masculine or feminine sociological gender. 

We may have left some sexual tabus, but my how have run to acquire some others as fast as possible. And that diotic division of people between homo and hetero is artificial, lying, useless and harmful.

Salaam
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 20, 2013, 11:35:19 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

In any case, I'm pretty sure that all can agree that promiscuity and acting on unbridled lust fall within the understanding of what is prohibited--homosexuality/bisexuality is not a "blank check" to indulge in what is prohibited.

However, dislike of homosexuality/homosexual acts is not a blank check to be ugly to other people, either.

4:36 And serve GOD and do not set up anything with Him, and do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. GOD does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

4:86 And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. GOD is Reckoning over all things.

4:94 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of GOD, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace: "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with GOD are many riches. That is how you were before, but GOD graced you, so investigate carefully. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?

49:11 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.

10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.

5:8 O you who believe, stand for GOD and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of GOD. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in GOD, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. GOD is Hearer, Knower.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
 
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: PixelAngelBaby on July 20, 2013, 12:31:08 PM
Salam,

Although I sympathize with homosexuals who sincerely cannot help who they are attracted to (I can be attracted to the same sex too at times, I have always been like that), I have something to say to those who say homosexuality is natural because animals do it.

If that is true..and it is...

Then Pedophilia is natural too!

So is eating the placenta after childbirth and killing/eating family members.

Have you seen any documentaries on Bonobo monkeys?


So using the animal kingdom to measure what is right or "natural" or wrong in the Quran...is pretty useless in my opinion. Just because something occurs in nature, doesn't mean it's "right".

Now, if you can without a shadow of a doubt, find proof within the Quran that homosexuality is okay, then I'm all ears. I have seen Farouk's video on youtube about this and it did intrigue me. It made some sense to me. But I'm not entirely sure I'm totally convinced.

At the same time, I don't condone violence towards homosexuals. They are free to be with who they want, it's none of my business. But I don't think it's necessarily right.

And for the person who qouted the verse that says Lot's people committed lewdness no one else before them has done...

What if Allah means no one committed lewdness of that magnitude? It seems the whole town was leaving their mates and sleeping around!

And where is the evidence that we know a date in history of when these people existed? in order to compare it to the cave man drawings of homosexuality?

Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: PixelAngelBaby on July 20, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
On the other hand, what would righteous, godfearing homosexuals look like in an islamic society, if it is acceptable?

I suppose gay and lesbian couples would just live normally as any other couples. Praying, reading Quran, giving alms and zakat, enjoining righteousness with their community, doing good deeds, feeding the poor, fasting, performing hajj...etc

One thing that I think homosexuals may be of benefit to society is the adoption of orphans. Since they cannot procreate, it would make sense to adopt, and that helps give these children homes and people to care for them. The debate for this though is whether or not same sex couples can prove to be effective role models for children in terms of gender roles and whatnot. But I honestly don't think it's that bad.

I don't really know, im just speculating. Allah knows best and may He guide us and provide us with the correct understanding.

Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Khaliq on July 21, 2013, 02:59:25 AM
Salam,

Although I sympathize with homosexuals who sincerely cannot help who they are attracted to (I can be attracted to the same sex too at times, I have always been like that), I have something to say to those who say homosexuality is natural because animals do it.

If that is true..and it is...

Then Pedophilia is natural too!

So is eating the placenta after childbirth and killing/eating family members.
Wa alaikum as-salaam. :)

While do I understand the point you are trying to make, I could not disagree more than I do. :)

Paedophilia has very, very negative effects. I know two people personally who were molested as children, one of whom is unable to have a relationship because of it. Homosexual relationships have no negative effects on those who are in them, unless it was also as children.

Homosexual relationships are between two individuals who consent to it. A child is unable to give consent because they are unable to fully think through the consequences of such actions.

We probably don't eat the placenta due to blood: only them other could really eat it and not run the risk of being ill (as it is the mother's blood). In addition, the human body cannot digest blood properly, and blood is highly rife with iron, it makes us run the risk of an iron overdose including fluid in the lungs and liver damage, which is why we do not do it; we do not have the evolutionary mechanisms to allow us to consume blood: drinking of (human) blood can kill us. Otherwise, the consumption of animal blood just runs the risk of potential illness if the animal has it, because you can't really 'cook' blood in the same way you can flesh, because it would destroy any 'benefits' that would be included within it.

Regarding natural and the eating of flesh, we have higher cognitive functions than such animals and we have an innate and instinctive taboo that goes against cannibalism: as humans, we are social beings who desire co-operation. The consumption of human flesh means that someone had to die to be eaten. To eat the flesh of someone who has died of natural causes also violates an instinctive distrust of the eating of carrion: we don't know what they died of, possibly some illness, so we shouldn't consume them. If we kill them and eat them, we are violating our innate need to be social and being aggressive; humanity relies on societies to survive, so the killing of people is not considered beneficial, especially if they are of our tribe or family.

Our instinctive repulsion and prohibition on the consumption of fellow humans is good, too, because cannibalism is dangerous: the risk of the incurable neurological disease "Kuru" increases with the consumption of human beings. The consumption of human beings in Papua New Guinea actually caused an epidemic of Kuru in Papua New Guinea in the 19th century (IIRC).

Just my $0.02. :)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: GODsubmitter on July 21, 2013, 06:41:12 AM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

In any case, I'm pretty sure that all can agree that promiscuity and acting on unbridled lust fall within the understanding of what is prohibited--homosexuality/bisexuality is not a "blank check" to indulge in what is prohibited.

However, dislike of homosexuality/homosexual acts is not a blank check to be ugly to other people, either.

4:36 And serve GOD and do not set up anything with Him, and do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. GOD does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

4:86 And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. GOD is Reckoning over all things.

4:94 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of GOD, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace: "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with GOD are many riches. That is how you were before, but GOD graced you, so investigate carefully. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?

49:11 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.

10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.

5:8 O you who believe, stand for GOD and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of GOD. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in GOD, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. GOD is Hearer, Knower.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
 

 :bravo:

Thank you @Abdul-Hadi for this, and other 2 posts since the beginning of this thread. You show maturity and impartiality in your opinions and contributions in many other posts of yours in the entire Forum as well.

It is so good to read well balanced exposition of one's thinking and opinion.

?What a sad era when it is easier to smash an atom than a prejudice.?
― Albert Einstein


Thank you again and God bless you.

 :sun:

On the other hand, why are you others bothered whether this half-civilized Sonny-guy leaves Islam or not?
What does it have to do with you? Are you advocates and defenders of religion?

Each one is accountable for own sins, no-one can substitute, or save anyone other except God Alone!

 :peace:

Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 21, 2013, 08:32:27 AM
:bravo:

Thank you @Abdul-Hadi for this, and other 2 posts since the beginning of this thread. You show maturity and impartiality in your opinions and contributions in many other posts of yours in the entire Forum as well.

It is so good to read well balanced exposition of one's thinking and opinion

He is mature? He compare Quran to Alistair Crowleys book of the law.


I'm leaving this forum.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Azz on July 21, 2013, 08:56:14 AM
He is mature? He compare Quran to Alistair Crowleys book of the law.


I'm leaving this forum and I will even create a website which will warn people to not join here.

Where has he compared the Quran to Crowley's works? Was it in this thread or a previous one? and what was the context of him doing so?

What are you even gonna warn people about, that x person disagrees with what you think? Unsourced and out-of-context, as per the usual method of anti-muslim rhetoric is? I can't even tell what you're trying to argue anymore (it can't be the homosexual thing because the majority of people here seem to agree with you on that) but if whoever's upsetting you is so wrong, why not just present hard proofs?  and why are you so sensitive/insecure to other people's views anyway?
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: kgwithnob on July 21, 2013, 09:45:08 AM
He is mature? He compare Quran to Alistair Crowleys book of the law.


I'm leaving this forum.

Chill out Sonny. Just pay a bit more attention to the TITLE of the forum, i.e. ?FREE-MINDS?, People here; as long as they abide by the rules of the forum, are entitled to express their opinions. So, try to be reasonable and at the same time stand your ground through REASONING. Let your mind rule over your heart, not the other way around. Emotions are an integral part of our being, but logic comes first. So, you better come out of it and stay on the right track till the TRUTH finds its way out by letting others decide for themselves on different topics and issues in a calm and peaceful atmosphere. Be patient. GOD is with the patient people and loves them too. See 8:46 and 3:146.

Peace,
Khalil
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 21, 2013, 10:05:06 AM
Peace Sonny,

Don't be a big baby, people don't always agree with me and I'm a genius  :laugh:

Stay and enjoy the forum

Have a blessed ramadan

   :peace:
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Man of Faith on July 21, 2013, 11:22:12 AM
Peace,

"Half-civilized"? I think the level is pretty low here.

God bless you
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: diamantinehoneybunch on July 21, 2013, 11:25:27 AM
Peace,

"Half-civilized"? I think the level is pretty low here.

God bless you

Salaam,

What do you mean by "the level is pretty low here"?
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Man of Faith on July 21, 2013, 11:41:35 AM
Peace,

I just mean that we are forgetting the word of God.

God bless you
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 21, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
Peace,

I just mean that we are forgetting the word of God.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

I think maybe you should have said "I" instead of "we" or if there is someone you are
referring to please be specific.

Have a blessed Ramadan

   :peace:
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Abdul-Hadi on July 21, 2013, 12:42:28 PM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

:bravo:

Thank you @Abdul-Hadi for this, and other 2 posts since the beginning of this thread. You show maturity and impartiality in your opinions and contributions in many other posts of yours in the entire Forum as well.

It is so good to read well balanced exposition of one's thinking and opinion.

?What a sad era when it is easier to smash an atom than a prejudice.?
― Albert Einstein


Thank you again and God bless you.

 :sun:

On the other hand, why are you others bothered whether this half-civilized Sonny-guy leaves Islam or not?
What does it have to do with you? Are you advocates and defenders of religion?

Each one is accountable for own sins, no-one can substitute, or save anyone other except God Alone!

 :peace:

Thank you for your kind words.  :)

I don't agree that Sonny is "half-civilized." It upset me a little to read that coming from you. :'( Maybe he posted not as an ultimatum, but as a vehicle to learn. It isn't always easy to leave the comfort of the past.

The person who insults usually expects to be replied to in kind; it throws off their "game" when one doesn't stoop to their level.

Sonny presented questions which were answered (with what evidence could be gathered). The "ball is in his court", so to speak.

ISA, the evidence may help a person or persons. Many people lurk/visit/view these forums without posting.

All persons are welcome in the Deen; does anyone really wish to be the cause of anyone leaving? If we are to invite with the best words, what words could be better than the truth?  :hmm

Everything will be only as ALLAH wills--but calm, patient truth usually carries the day, ISA.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Sonny on July 21, 2013, 12:46:37 PM
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

Thank you for your kind words.  :)

I don't agree that Sonny is "half-civilized." It upset me a little to read that coming from you. :'( Maybe he posted not as an ultimatum, but as a vehicle to learn. It isn't always easy to leave the comfort of the past.

The person who insults usually expects to be replied to in kind; it throws off their "game" when one doesn't stoop to their level.

Sonny presented questions which were answered (with what evidence could be gathered). The "ball is in his court", so to speak.

ISA, the evidence may help a person or persons. Many people lurk/visit/view these forums without posting.

All persons are welcome in the Deen; does anyone really wish to be the cause of anyone leaving? If we are to invite with the best words, what words could be better than the truth?  :hmm

Everything will be only as ALLAH wills--but calm, patient truth usually carries the day, ISA.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

If your version of islam is correct than I rather go to hell than heaven.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: es on July 21, 2013, 01:35:00 PM
Salaam "hawk99",

Peace Sonny,

Don't be a big baby, people don't always agree with me and I'm a genius  :laugh:

Stay and enjoy the forum

Have a blessed ramadan

   :peace:

I'm a genius too!  ;D


If your version of islam is correct than I rather go to hell than heaven.

Dear brother Sonny, Salaam.

Are you allowing your ego to get to you? If God ordains something, it is correct. I feel whether one agrees with something or not is irrelevant. Whatever we truly believe to be God's Law, we ought to abide by it. I'm not saying whether the gay issue is right or wrong, but your prejudice against homosexuals should not be the deciding factor of your faith. If it is, then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether you are serving your ego or whether you are serving God. There are things written in The Book which people are going to disagree on. Everyone has their beliefs. We should all put our points forward and decide on what we believe to be true on merit and not on purely emotional statements. This is what the Qur'an advises too.

Anyway, my initial post in this thread was to better understand the basis of your perspective. There are lots of terrible things going on in the world which God explicitly advises against-lying, cheating, fraud, adultery, murder, rape, etc. We choose not to notice this, but yet we get so hyped up about homosexuals. If you are not homosexual, then why put so much energy into homophobic bigotry. Leave people be and try to be the best human being that you can be. Don't try to agitate people who are just getting on with their lives. We shall all return to God and answer to Him. If you are insincere in your faith, if your faith is conditional upon what you expect from God, then that is a matter between you and your Creator.

God bless you, my brother.  :peace:

Peace to all.

Sajda.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: GODsubmitter on July 21, 2013, 02:17:32 PM
The way a US citizen from the South distinguishes between sizes of trees.
Earl: "That tree shure is a biggin'."
Bubba: "Rat, but that one ova there is an even bigotry!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. described bigotry in the following quotation: "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Man of Faith on July 21, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
Peace,

No, it was in general. I am trying not to forget the word of God myself.

God bless you
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 22, 2013, 02:26:08 AM
Salaam "hawk99",

I'm a genius too!  ;D


Dear brother Sonny, Salaam.

Are you allowing your ego to get to you? If God ordains something, it is correct. I feel whether one agrees with something or not is irrelevant. Whatever we truly believe to be God's Law, we ought to abide by it. I'm not saying whether the gay issue is right or wrong, but your prejudice against homosexuals should not be the deciding factor of your faith. If it is, then perhaps you need to ask yourself whether you are serving your ego or whether you are serving God. There are things written in The Book which people are going to disagree on. Everyone has their beliefs. We should all put our points forward and decide on what we believe to be true on merit and not on purely emotional statements. This is what the Qur'an advises too.

Anyway, my initial post in this thread was to better understand the basis of your perspective. There are lots of terrible things going on in the world which God explicitly advises against-lying, cheating, fraud, adultery, murder, rape, etc. We choose not to notice this, but yet we get so hyped up about homosexuals. If you are not homosexual, then why put so much energy into homophobic bigotry. Leave people be and try to be the best human being that you can be. Don't try to agitate people who are just getting on with their lives. We shall all return to God and answer to Him. If you are insincere in your faith, if your faith is conditional upon what you expect from God, then that is a matter between you and your Creator.
God bless you, my brother.  :peace:
Peace to all.
Sajda.

Judging by your post, Yes you are a genius!

may you have many blessings this ramadan

   :peace:
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: hawk99 on July 22, 2013, 02:28:54 AM
The way a US citizen from the South distinguishes between sizes of trees.
Earl: "That tree shure is a biggin'."
Bubba: "Rat, but that one ova there is an even bigotry!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. described bigotry in the following quotation: "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

 :handshake:

Have a blessed ramadan
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: GODsubmitter on July 22, 2013, 05:35:20 AM
:handshake:

Have a blessed ramadan

Thank you, you too!

 :sun:
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: Earthdom on July 22, 2013, 06:24:06 AM
The way a US citizen from the South distinguishes between sizes of trees.
Earl: "That tree shure is a biggin'."
Bubba: "Rat, but that one ova there is an even bigotry!"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. described bigotry in the following quotation: "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."

Good post bro, you always bring some quotes from many phylossoper in your post.It's interesting  :)
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: GODsubmitter on July 22, 2013, 09:11:59 AM
Good post bro, you always bring some quotes from many philosopher in your post.It's interesting  :)

Thanx, glad that you appreciate it.
Title: Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
Post by: es on July 22, 2013, 07:36:47 PM
Salaam Hawk,

Judging by your post, Yes you are a genius!

may you have many blessings this ramadan

   :peace:

Thank you for your comments. I have just had the Director of 'MENSA' read my post, and I have been told that I will soon receive my official certification to testify that I am a bonafide genius.   ;D  And they say that Pakistani kids in England are at the bottom of the academic league tables. Evidently not!

May I have as many blessings this Ramadan and every Ramadan. In fact, may we all have googolplex blessings for the entirety of our lives, insh'Allah!  :)


 :peace: