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General Issues / Questions => General Issues / Questions => Topic started by: Man of Faith on June 20, 2013, 05:06:17 AM

Title: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 20, 2013, 05:06:17 AM
Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Post 1 - Introduction

Peace be unto you,

This thread will be discussing the chain of belief. Faith is a life-long process, although to some people it may come quicker than others. God can, if He does no longer wish to support you, remove it all in the blink of an eye.

The chain goes as the title of this thread says, from Nearness and Guidance to Knowledge and Wisdom which will result in Peace and Prosperity, all features which are written as proper nouns in my correspondence, due to them being more than just random words when associated with God. For example, when God gives you Wisdom it is an attribute in the form of a blessing existing there by the Holy Spirit given through inspiration to you. This Wisdom is not self-acquired but the result of reverence and thus not wisdom through, for example, age and experience.

None of the terms used with capital letters in this thread are due to ourselves but of the one who sent us. The Peace is the God-given peace which you will receive at the end of the chain, when you will be living in ?Islam?. Actions that are due to us will be written without capitalization.

We need to learn that God is much greater than us; we need to learn to put our trust in Him and seek to that He will inspire us to take each step in life, both big and small ones. We should do everything in life by the hand of God and have Faith that He will lead us straight. Every tiny little action should be performed by God through us and we shall never take credit for it thinking that something was due to our own cleverness, especially when we have reached much further on the Path and God is seriously supporting us interactively through the whole day, but also from the very beginning when we have decided to follow the way of God. However, as someone said: ?A man higher up the ladder the bigger the fall?. In this case it means that a man of Faith has a bigger responsibility.

I have not yet even started to convey the true meaning of this thread, as so far it has yet only been an introduction to you. The information above was necessary for you to understand the underlying Message of what I will be talking about. To leave yourself entirely to God and put your trust in Him is the very first step preceding the chain of events in the title of the thread. Brother Fazlur Rahman has valuable tips on how to accomplish the first part in his own dedicated threads. I am particularly impressed by his achievement at completely leaving himself in God?s hands in the terms of physical healing.

Many individuals who have discovered about God never truly follow the before-mentioned rules of thumb and this is where many people go wrong. In fact, many people fail even at the step before my chain of events, which is handing themselves over entirely to God?s Grace and Mercy.

In the next post I will start to elaborate the first step after putting your trust in God alone: ?Nearness and Guidance?, which also means to seek protection from the evil one and his followers.

May God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: justamuslim on June 20, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
@man of faith

I would appreciate if you would answer this question:  can any person change God's will/plan? 

If you can, please provide quranic references in answering.   Thanks. 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 20, 2013, 11:15:09 AM
Peace justamuslim,

Although your question was not the theme of my thread I will try to answer your question.

If God wills something to happen nothing can prevent this. But what I think is that God is a living God like an individual which can be affected, although He can not be fooled or tricked since He is aware of everything. Please do not confuse my words with like that God has a physical body and is a wise man with beard, it was not that I mean. God is a powerful spirit or energy in the Universe, His energy is often referred to as the Holy Spirit.

He can control anything as He pleases and if He wants anyone of us dead he can just say "Die!" and we would drop dead.

I believe humans have free will, compared to others here I think, and can affect or fail God's plans. It does not mean that it matters anything to God since He predicts everything and He is in control of everything.

Although I am not entirely sure about how it works since in Quran He tells us everything is prerecorded.

Maybe God gives us a story but He already knows the outcome. We are made to believe we had any choice.

Another is that if there is a change in the time line, God can compensate faster than the blink of an eye, meaning God is always in control.

Well, to be honest I feel my explanation is just conjecture since I truly do not know the nature of God in that regard.

I am however sure that what we do in this life, as we perceive it, is important for our fate. It seems to be contradicting the Quran, but we can affect our fate. On the other hand, with an entirely pre written fate much of the Quran would feel void.

No matter the Truth, we need to work hard to redeem ourselves through our deeds. Our behavior and actions affect us.

In the end, because I was not really sure this was what you were expecting as an answer, I wanted to ask you what you meant in your question?

You said if someone can change God's will/plan.

Well, they have no authority over God so they cannot change it for God, but I think one can affect God through a good show of character and deeds and sort of have Him "change His mind" so to say. God is alive and is no robot, even if He is only good. His decisions will be fairer and more righteous than anything else. We cannot even fathom at which level His planning is.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: hawk99 on June 20, 2013, 12:09:57 PM
@man of faith

I would appreciate if you would answer this question:  can any person change God's will/plan? 

If you can, please provide quranic references in answering.   Thanks.

Peace justamuslim,

[13:11] Shifts (of angels) take turns, staying with each one of you?they are in front
of you and behind you. They stay with you, and guard you in accordance with GOD's
commands. Thus, GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they
themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people,
no force can stop it. For they have none beside Him as Lord and Master.

 

[8:53] GOD does not change a blessing He has bestowed upon any people
unless they themselves decide to change. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

[12:68] When they went (to Joseph), they entered in accordance with their father's
instructions. Although this could not change anything decreed by GOD, Jacob had a
private reason for asking them to do this. For he possessed certain knowledge that
we taught him, but most people do not know.

[60:7] GOD may change the animosity between you and them into love.
GOD is Omnipotent. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


In essence, there is an overarching reality that we humans are not a part of.

Here are my answers to your quiz.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605132.msg329710#msg329710


ONE DEEN

   :peace:






Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 20, 2013, 12:23:49 PM
Peace brother hawk99,

Thank you for your input and assistance.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: GODsubmitter on June 20, 2013, 03:11:53 PM
Thank you @Man of Faith for your first post, I liked it very much, and I would like you to continue it, thank you.

I liked the distinction between the Peace given by God and peace which might be acquired by human means, same as the distinction between wisdom from experience vs God's Wisdom He might bestow upon someone.

God bless
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: newmoon on June 20, 2013, 07:02:15 PM
@man of faith

I would appreciate if you would answer this question:  can any person change God's will/plan? 

If you can, please provide quranic references in answering.   Thanks. 

  Can any one understand what is God's Will/Plan for us ?

  Why to change God's Will/Plan ?

  Whether  God's Will/Plan would harm us ?

  Ponder


  Regards

  Balachandran

 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: justamuslim on June 20, 2013, 07:32:06 PM
@man of faith,

The question I ask is relevant to the theme but before I comment, could you please elaborate on what you said:


Many individuals who have discovered about God never truly follow the before-mentioned rules of thumb and this is where many people go wrong. In fact, many people fail even at the step before my chain of events, which is handing themselves over entirely to God?s Grace and Mercy.


When you say many people who are you referring to?  What do you mean by saying handing themselves over entirely to God?   Can you give examples. 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: justamuslim on June 20, 2013, 07:38:06 PM

Here are my answers to your quiz.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605132.msg329710#msg329710


Read your answers but I keep getting side tracked here.....

Thanks for providing the references. 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: DrGm on June 20, 2013, 08:07:30 PM


 can any person change God's will/plan? 

If you can, please provide quranic references in answering.   Thanks. 


GOD's  will/plan  to us  is  Only GOOD. 

If  We (human knowledge ) have to change/undo GOD's will/plan  is opposite of

GOOD.

Refer 10:44
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 20, 2013, 09:54:20 PM
Peace justamuslim,

It means as the sentence reads. You should trust God, knowing all good comes from Him, have Faith that He will be with you when you need Him. He will help you and provide for you. He will (hopefully) bless you with things you did not have before you handed yourself over to Him, such as Knowledge, Wisdom, Peace and Prosperity.

The opposite of handing yourself over to God is to be running your own race, take credit and honor for things and believe they are due to your own cleverness.

When you handed yourself over to God you have sided with him, becoming an ally. You praisr God for every little tiny thing you get, He is the doer of everything. And if someone thank you you should often say "do not than me, thank the one who sent me".

I have no more time to type ao hope it cleared things out.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 21, 2013, 06:04:24 AM
Peace Man of Faith.

Originally I dislike something about philossophy or another similiar, because my motto is the Quran is Scripture with the best phylossophy wrotten on it.But if it's about Islam, I will try to read it.

Your article is good Man of Faith, keep writing, so you can share your knowledges to us plus the more strenghtening my english language skills.

But I want ask you a question, Can you explain more about "This Wisdom is not self-acquired but the result of reverence "?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on June 21, 2013, 08:09:17 AM
Peace Man of Faith,

Nice thread, some good points and I look forward to the next part.

As you can tell by my user name, I would agree with the emphasis on Peace. :)
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Zulf on June 21, 2013, 08:16:24 AM
But I want ask you a question, Can you explain more about "This Wisdom is not self-acquired but the result of reverence "?

My wild guess is that he means that God sends/inspires/injects/reveals wisdom, insights and understanding to us, that we wouldn't have been able to figure out by ourselves using only our intellect. The Wisdom he talks about is a blessing and help forward on your path on purification.

I'm looking forward to the coming articles. I know for a fact that it is not easy to 'leave it all to God', even though this is what we should do in case we wish for success and purification. When we are disconnected from God (to whatever degree), fear (in whatever shapes) is abundant in our life. To 'fear nothing but God' is something profound... and it would be the closest thing to real peace we can come in this life.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 21, 2013, 08:43:52 AM
Thank you Zulf for your answer, but I'm not asking you, I'm asking Man of Faith.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 21, 2013, 10:11:07 AM
Peace Earthdom,

Zulf's answer is practically the same as I would answer and well-written. Thank you Zulf!

There is a difference between God-given Wisdom and the "standard" wisdom as the one from God is superior. This is why being supported by God is the best scenario and the support comes gradually and increases depending on how well we are doing.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: hawk99 on June 21, 2013, 11:25:24 AM
Peace Family,

The greatest wisdom is from God simply because it is one of his attributes,
and he bestows it upon whomever he pleases.
 
[12:22] When he reached maturity, we endowed him with wisdom and 
knowledge. We thus reward the righteous.

[19:12] "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.

ONE DEEN

   :peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: justamuslim on June 22, 2013, 04:31:48 AM
@man of faith,

One can easily distracted on this forum.  I am looking to read your next posts finishing your thoughts before commenting and having a discussion. 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 22, 2013, 07:39:07 AM
Quote
My wild guess is that he means that God sends/inspires/injects/reveals wisdom, insights and understanding to us, that we wouldn't have been able to figure out by ourselves using only our intellect. The Wisdom he talks about is a blessing and help forward on your path on purification.

Thank you Zulf, I can agree with you for usefull of wisdom.

Quote
One can easily distracted on this forum.  I am looking to read your next posts finishing your thoughts before commenting and having a discussion.

Thank you justamuslim for reminding, it's better if we waiting Man of Faith to finish his articles then we can commenting on it.
But your mention is not too useful if we waiting the next part too long.

Btw keep witing Man of Faith. :)

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 22, 2013, 07:56:48 AM
Peace,

Okay. I will try to sit down and write my next post soon since you seem barely able to wait. Well, it takes some time to finish a good post, so I need a good amount of time and concentration, as well as inspiration to write anything.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: justamuslim on June 22, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Peace,

Okay. I will try to sit down and write my next post soon since you seem barely able to wait. Well, it takes some time to finish a good post, so I need a good amount of time and concentration, as well as inspiration to write anything.

God bless you

Sure can understand that and also relate.  I am yet to post on wudu and ablution thread trying to get all my thoughts together in addressing hawk99. 

 You bring up some important concepts - wisdom/Wisdom, relying on God....  I suppose while awaiting your next posts, I can share my thoughts thus far commenting.  But really am looking to read your next posts. 

You think a whack on the head would help speed up the process to get you going?    ;D
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 24, 2013, 05:01:45 AM
Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Post 2 ? Nearness and Guidance part 1

Peace be unto you,

In the last post I introduced my thread and what its contents will be. Now we will delve deeper into the topic and I will discuss the first link in the chain; ?Nearness and Guidance?, which I consider is the first step one will need to take once they have discovered the Path of God and Faith has entered the heart.

Not do I command you to do the following, but I always state my intention before I initiate a monolog with God such as this; ?? I seek your Nearness and Guidance?? and I add the following phrase as an intensifier: ?? as well as protection from the evil one and his followers?. I feel these phrases have filled their intended purpose for me, but this is nothing which is sanctioned by the Quran and it is a mere aim of my personal development. Still, I believe this is the initial aim of someone who chooses to follow the Light of God.

I am sure we should always implore God for our needs in life and this will bring us closer to God, meaning you gain his Nearness by doing this as you put your trust in Him. It is a kind of proximity and it means allegorically to: ?walk along the beach with the Lord?. The Most Gracious will lend his powerful hand and where your energy runs out He will carry you. This is surely the assistance God is mentioning in the Quran when He promises to help those who are steadfast and have Faith in Him.

There is a famous poem which was inspired to a certain woman named Mary Stevenson in 1936 which reads:
?One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints. Other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow, or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord, ?You promised me, Lord, that if I followed You, You would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed You the most, You have not been there for me??

The Lord replied: ?The times when you have seen only one set of footprints is when I carried you.??

Some variations of this poem exist on the Web, but I believe this one to be the original. The alternatives are adapted to Christianity with Father or Child and thus I disregard them. I personally take this poem as that God continues to inspire humans through all ages and that He did not stop in the 7th century. As you can read in the poem it means to hand yourself over to God entirely and put all your trust in Him.
The reason I put Guidance on the same level as Nearness is that I believe when one gets closer to God, then God will provide Guidance at the same time or at least soon thereafter. Guidance is, according to me, pretty misunderstood and some people believe that God only guides through the Quran, which I believe is wrong. God is not confined to some Book and will guide as He pleases. Many are the generally called blessed men who lived through the ages and many of them lived while the Quran was not yet revealed, and these people were guided. They had put all their trust in God alone and that He will lead them straight, on a straight Path. The Quran was sent down as a blessing, a bonus because God is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful and to set things straight. It is a Guide for those who seek Guidance, but not without permission by the Lord. However, the Message has existed all along and the Mosaic Law revealed to Moses millennia ago is still contained within the Quran. These words were few and were inscribed on stone tables on the Mount Sinai, but apparently they seem to be long gone. They are left within the Old Testament of the Bible slightly corrupted with stoning as a punishment for breaking the rules which is a punishment of Pagans. Moses? people were told to uphold the Law which only seemed to have been Ten Commandments at the time and this Law is still valid as of today.

Jesus was, centuries later (maybe a millennium or even 1500 years, but I am not sure), upholding the Mosaic Law and was simply exposing the clergymen of his time as well as bringing news of the Kingdom (Heaven). He was not there to sacrifice himself for mankind or any of the usual invented stories, and he was not a god or the son of God. He was simply a Messenger, although a very blessed one powerfully infused with the Holy Spirit (the direct spirit of God). Jesus seems to have been some kind of beacon in the timeline of Prophets, although I am not truly sure in which manner. Anyway, like every other Messenger he was a sign for mankind that God is present, always watching. He brought news for the Believers and clear warnings for the enemies of God (the clergymen and other hypocrites as well as those who disbelieve altogether). God decided to ?bring him back to base?, so He made the people believe they killed him while he brought his soul back before harm and suffering came to him. Almost instantly, and even before he is gone, he is the object of idolization by throngs of people who treat him as a lord.

And, about 600 years later, Muhammad is inspired by God and put to trial and seemingly manages to pass the trials, with assistance from God, and the Quran is revealed to Him. The Quran is the exact wordings of God, much like the stone tablets revealed to Moses, but way more detailed this time. It is the perfect source of scriptural information. The same as with Jesus, Muhammad is later treated as a lord and the Law-giver and a strong source of authorization to issue inhumane and ungodly rules for generations of so-called believers, which unfortunately the majority of people seem to have fallen prey to.

Before Moses came, Abraham arrived and there existed no scripture at that time. Everything was based on hearsay and the world population was small. I am not sure at all when Abraham lived, but I infer that he lived about 2000 years before Jesus, about 4000 years ago. I can by no way guarantee that this information is correct however. Take my guess with a grind of salt. Very little was written down of anything and what you knew was spread verbally. The only apparent other-than-verbal communication was paintings and inscriptions. As far as I know any uniform written language was not yet invented. This is why we have so little information from Abraham except what is written in the Quran. The Bible has tales about him, but it is difficult to know which are fairy tales and which are true. That Abraham was guided is proof that Guidance does not necessarily come by scriptural means. Guidance will come when we seek God?s Nearness, and that is a Truth from the Message, particularly when Faith is entering our hearts.

Between and before the above stated Prophets there were many more who ever roamed the face of the Earth, but I did not mention them here. They are also important as signs, but you can read about them yourselves if you are interested. They all had their own personalities and were not at all alike on the personal level although they shared one thing in common, Faith in God alone. They were not idol worshipers and they followed the righteous tradition (which was to live in the way of God) of their ancestors and they relied upon God for Guidance. Their ancestors only told them the important things like worship only the Lord and there existed not all these nonsense which were spread through the today so-called hadith. When they said to follow the ways of our ancestors Abraham and company, as retold within the Quran, it meant to embrace monotheism. God?s religion has never been complicated and filled with hundreds of rules but those rules that exist are pretty simple.
Pretty much everything of the practices were ideas of the Ummah (community), ie the uniformity of prayers and those fundamental things. I am pretty sure that there is no Rakah pattern or the other ideas taught by hadith of Muhammad and they may be later inventions. The word Salat basically means to contact God, not truly the commonplace prayer ritual. Do not get me wrong, I believe in prayers and God has told us to regularly make contact with Him throughout the day, and even at night.

I think prayers or communication with God was never questioned. It is very obvious that one should implore and rely upon his God frequently. And what is the first thing that comes to mind when we wake up in the morning? Well, communication with the Lord as is the foremost all the time. The same goes for the night when we retire for the day. Moreover, commonsense tells that some communication and imploration during the day fits in well in a Believer?s life.

The practices of God?s religion do not divert much from past prophets before Muhammad. All have had their Salat (contact/communication) and Zakat (good deeds/behavior or something like that in my understanding).

As far as I have understood the only prerequisites to reach God?s ?Kingdom? is to:

1.   Believe in God and His absolute authority
2.   Believe in the Day of Judgment
3.   Be a righteous person

If someone claims that you need to do more than this apart from some minor details explained by God in Quran you should not believe them. If you have more things you do they are personal commitments for God and nothing mandatory prescribed by God.

I think all (especially some of them like Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad) are idolized against their will and they were very modest and humble. They have their own days of commemoration and they are treated highly, more than a healthy hero of their people. We can follow their example, but we do not do so by having days for them or constantly including them in our humanly ceremonies or rituals.

Now, roughly 1400 years after Muhammad and about 2000 years after Jesus, we have the Quran and God to rely upon. Most people interpret the Quran as Muhammad was the seal of prophets and that there will be no more prophets emerging on the face of the Earth. Considered how often the Quran is misinterpreted I am myself not sure about the passages stating this information and in my head I find that Messengers would still emerge when blessed men reach far and God would excel their Believer status. Also considering the state of God?s religion, I would not rule out that God could have another Messenger in His plans. God does not actively guide through His Book, but by Himself personally, generally known as through the Holy Spirit. The Quran is what it is, it is scriptural information, even though the author is God Himself. The text or book is not magical on its own and will guide people only through their Wisdom and Knowledge.

However, God?s religion should in theory not be difficult to practice at all since we are spoiled with the Quran, but since Guidance is not connected to the Quran it does not matter if some people have Quran or not. Only muslims (peacemakers) will find Guidance as well as Nearness. We need to work on our personalities and behavior before God will actively guide us into Believers. And Believer status means Wisdom and Knowledge which muslims do not possess (yet). In my opinion, a muslim does not necessarily need to have a strong Faith in heart, they ?want to believe?, they are still searching and need to actively work, as I stated above, on their personality and behavior.

Just to make things more complicated, we are all muslims even when you gain the extra tag Believer, but there is a considerable difference between the two, and that has to do with Faith, and lack of real Nearness and Guidance, such as when you truly feel God is near and guiding you. We may of course deceive ourselves and believe we are guided, but then it is imagined nearness and guidance. A person who does not live by the ways of a muslim will surely not be near God or guided, so we can easily say that they lack Nearness and Guidance. You must see such things in others from their behavior. The example of the above can easily be understood by studying the Quran and why some people believe they are guided while they are not and that is because they are hypocrites. Are we not actively working for the last part of the chain about Peace, we will not be rewarded by the first two parts of the chain, it is that simple. This is why I refer to it as a chain.

According to me, you shall put yourself in God?s hands, trusting that He will lead you straight. Close proximity to God will grant you Guidance and in its turn will lead to the next part of the chain, Wisdom and Knowledge. And in the long run the reverent Believer (mo?meen) will feel a clear reward of Peace and Prosperity. When Knowledge and Wisdom starts to be granted to the Believer then information like the Quran and its meanings will become clear to them. They will see that the Quran sets out clear guidelines for those who have chosen to follow God. I will talk more about the next step in the next post.

I am not sure whether I covered everything I wanted in this post or not, so there might be a Part 2 of this category. I brought the poem up because I discovered it by chance some years ago and I thought it touched my heart entirely. Also, I think I slipped into things irrelevant for my topic and I hope you excuse me and you still like what I wrote.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on June 24, 2013, 06:40:10 AM
Peace be upon you Man of Faith,

Thanks for your second installment. Those comments about guidance I find particularly important. I also really believe that God swt  guides all He will in many ways. The whole nearness and guidance thing really fits my understanding to - that as soon as one sincerely asks the One who Created them to guide them, then they get that guidance. Once again, I don't have much  time right now to look it up, but there could be a verse in the Quran I believe that states that some Messengers came without books - so the studying of a book was not meant for all people in all times. It could be for us now because of the way our society has developed, the way in which Prophet Muhammad was the seal of the Prophets or other things. Allah swt knows best.

There will still be people in today's world who don't have access to the Quran and I believe  they can be guided just as much to fundamental Islamic principles as someone with the Quran. I mean - why else is the Quran a Reminder? It's because much of it is what we can already understand I believe if we seek Allah's swt guidance sincerely even if we don't have a book or recitation.

With regards to Abraham - I definitely would say he was guided without the scripture at first - he used his own God given reasoning and he was always a monotheist as described in the Quran. I just want to add that later there was a scripture of Abraham as mentioned: "the scrolls of Abraham and Moses." 87:19. these may not have been similar in composition to the Quran but they were a type of scripture that Abraham would have received later in his life.

God bless you for your efforts
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 24, 2013, 07:18:02 AM
Peace supportpeacenotwar,

Thank you for reading all my text, hope it was not to dull to read and thanks for your support.

I am doubtful if Abraham ever wrote anything since written language was probably not invented at that time. Personally I think it may have been hearsay which was later written down and part of today's Old Testament. It is equal to hadith one can say.

And at the time of Moses very little information was written down either and this is probably why the Law was inscribed on stone tablets. Written discourse was probably not widespread neither at that time, although I guess it must have been language on those tablets, maybe ancient Hebrew or Hieroglyphs.

But thanks for presenting 87:19 to me, I will try to study the passage more in detail and work out its true meaning. But I am doubtful like I said that Abraham ever wrote anything down. Same goes for Noah. It is simply too far back in history for my logic to include written discourse.

Yes, you brought up another important aspect: "Reminder". Well, it is a reminder of the one same Message which was there all along. And the Ten Commandments live on and are still valid.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 24, 2013, 03:29:54 PM
Good article Man of Faith, keep going, wanna wait to part 3  :yay:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on June 25, 2013, 01:45:13 AM
Peace supportpeacenotwar,

Thank you for reading all my text, hope it was not to dull to read and thanks for your support.

I am doubtful if Abraham ever wrote anything since written language was probably not invented at that time. Personally I think it may have been hearsay which was later written down and part of today's Old Testament. It is equal to hadith one can say.

And at the time of Moses very little information was written down either and this is probably why the Law was inscribed on stone tablets. Written discourse was probably not widespread neither at that time, although I guess it must have been language on those tablets, maybe ancient Hebrew or Hieroglyphs.

But thanks for presenting 87:19 to me, I will try to study the passage more in detail and work out its true meaning. But I am doubtful like I said that Abraham ever wrote anything down. Same goes for Noah. It is simply too far back in history for my logic to include written discourse.

Yes, you brought up another important aspect: "Reminder". Well, it is a reminder of the one same Message which was there all along. And the Ten Commandments live on and are still valid.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

It wasn't dull - I enjoy reading quite a lot of your contributions. I know English is a foreign language for some people here so I try to look past that and see the points they're making. In terms of the scripture and Messengers: I would say from what I know thus far that Noah might not have had a scripture but maybe Abraham and Moses had a small amount written down and collected together in their time. I'm not actually sure when writtten language began but I know it was a long time ago, and that written languages have a long history in the Middle East.  The original Torah was the Book of Moses, I believe, so whether or not this was just an oral message and then written down later,  it's possble.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 25, 2013, 05:37:36 AM
Peace,

So my English is difficult to understand?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on June 25, 2013, 06:55:34 AM
Peace,

So my English is difficult to understand?

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

I take it this is addressed to me. That's not what I meant at all. I meant that when one writes or speaks in a foreign language, they may not use the same language or express themselves in the same way if they were writing or speaking in their mother tongue. So they may not have all the words/vocabularly to draw upon as they might ordinarily. I actually think your English is very good. I would love to be able to write in another language so fluently. (I'm not that fluent in my own mother tongue and I would love to be as fluent as you are, so maybe I should start practicing more).
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 25, 2013, 07:02:52 AM
Quote
So my English is difficult to understand?

No, Man of Faith, your english is in standart dialect, so it's easy to understand and it's same like what I study in the school.

You as an english teacher and by reading some of your posts, I recognize if your english is more expert than me.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 25, 2013, 01:36:01 PM
Peace supportpeacenotwar,

I am sorry. I should have known. Yeah, I understand what you mean.

I use English pretty much all the time, but I can always get better of course. Although all time spent with course books and other literature helps I guess. I have spent pretty much my whole life with English.

I ought not to brag, I try to see it as I am only a little better than I used to be. I am still far behind the best. Only sad thing is that my skill in my mother tongue is deteriorating since I speak less Swedish these days.

I stopped using contractions in forum posts for additional clarity, but I use them in conversation, and when I write a PM sometimes. Sometimes the written language even feels strange without them, but I am stubbornly continuing like this.

God bless you

(sorry I haven't replied to your PM yet, sister)

Peace Earthdom,

I try to express myself as clearly as possible although I tend to use formal words sometimes. You are right, little to no slang words or idioms.

Your English is understandable, but often the word order can be a bit off or an inappropriate word slips into your sentences, or there are verbs put in the wrong tense. It is called collocation. And at one point you said you 'demand an apology' which is pretty offensive/impolite or shows you are angry. I understood you meant you wished someone to accept your apology though. Thanks to being exposed to the most absurd sentences at work I can usually decipher even the most incorrect of sentences.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on June 25, 2013, 09:07:25 PM
Man of Faith
Salam

That was not a poem; a crystal clear assessment of her Life. Wow! For it is none but God Taught her the Words of the poem.

5:82   You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers to be the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the true believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

5:82   You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the people of reflection are the Jews and those who associate the knowledge of their books containing their own concepts and ideas. And you will find the nearest of them in affection to the people of reflection are those who call "We are humble and have no arrogance before the Wisdom, the Almighty Truth."

And with regard to the wordings of the poem of Mary Stevenson, the True Believer in my opinion that I gathered in just the two lines of her:

53:31   And to Allah belongs whatever is in the skies and whatever is in the earth - that He may recompense those who do evil with the penalty of what they have done and recompense those who do good with the best reward

?One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints. Other times there were one set of footprints."

Just juxtapose the bold lines of the poem and the ayats' words. Allah was so near to her that in her dreams the angels by the leave of Allah made clear to her the ayat of Quran. One does not need Quran text to read, but spending time to reflect upon the Truth happening around one is sufficient to reveal from the Furqan, the Criterion from with in.

The two sets of foot-steps are: 1. When you walk along side of God as taking as your companion; and the other: when you exactly follow upon His footsteps, showing your obedience and dignifying Him, there is only One set of footstep.

fazl


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: mmmm on June 25, 2013, 09:42:31 PM
Thanks Man of Faith

I really enjoy reading your posts but I have to say there are many things about previous scriptures that, I think should be reevaluated.
For example I am not aware that in the Q anywhere is said Moses got the tablets that were made of stone...etc.
The fact that we as believers are asked to believe in what was given to all the prophets tells me that we have evrything in hands that they had...
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 25, 2013, 10:35:15 PM
Peace mmmm,

You say they were not made of stone? Well, it does perhaps not say they were made of stone, but inferencing based on the era in which the Law to Moses was revealed they are most likely made of stone. They are tablets according to these verses:

7:145 [en.sahih] And We wrote for him on the tablets [something] of all things - instruction and explanation for all things, [saying], "Take them with determination and order your people to take the best of it. I will show you the home of the defiantly disobedient."

7:150 [en.sahih] And when Moses returned to his people, angry and grieved, he said, "How wretched is that by which you have replaced me after [my departure]. Were you impatient over the matter of your Lord?" And he threw down the tablets and seized his brother by [the hair of] his head, pulling him toward him. [Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, indeed the people oppressed me and were about to kill me, so let not the enemies rejoice over me and do not place me among the wrongdoing people."

7:154 [en.sahih] And when the anger subsided in Moses, he took up the tablets; and in their inscription was guidance and mercy for those who are fearful of their Lord.

On what other item do you make an inscription if not on stone. And like I said above, in this age of mankind people wrote things on stone tablets when they wanted to write something down, as after all it is several thousand years ago. Inscription is an invention that preceeded writing with pen.

And based on the age, I am quite sure that Moses did not write down more than this script on stone. The Covenant God made with the 'Children of Israel' was inscribed on these tablets, ie what to do to be in God's favor. Considered Moses' people went out of Egypt and the way the local people wrote down their information, inscription is most likely the way the words from God were written down. Moses' people lived in Egypt for generations.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 25, 2013, 10:43:37 PM
Peace,

I wanted to add that I bring practically no information which cannot be found within the Quran, and if I bring an external source, for example, from the Bible this is written out in one way or another. If I qoute Jesus from the Bible I say, for example, 'alleged' words of Jesus. I would not state "alleged words" if I qoute straight from the Quran.

The poem, which is claimed to have been written by the then 14-year-old Mary Stevenson in 1936, is another example. I never claimed this was Quranic information. The reason I qouted the poem is because it seemed divinely inspired as it more or less exactly describe Nearness and Guidance.

You need to remember, I am not of those who believe God only guides through the Quran. God is not confined to a book and as long as information follow the guidelines set out within the Quran it is righteous to follow it. I follow Quran as the only set of guidelines, and they make me choose what to follow and what to ignore in my life.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Jango on June 25, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Post 2 ? Nearness and Guidance part 1

Peace be unto you,

In the last post I introduced my thread and what its contents will be. Now we will delve deeper into the topic and I will discuss the first link in the chain; ?Nearness and Guidance?, which I consider is the first step one will need to take once they have discovered the Path of God and Faith has entered the heart.

Not do I command you to do the following, but I always state my intention before I initiate a monolog with God such as this; ?? I seek your Nearness and Guidance?? and I add the following phrase as an intensifier: ?? as well as protection from the evil one and his followers?. I feel these phrases have filled their intended purpose for me, but this is nothing which is sanctioned by the Quran and it is a mere aim of my personal development. Still, I believe this is the initial aim of someone who chooses to follow the Light of God.

I am sure we should always implore God for our needs in life and this will bring us closer to God, meaning you gain his Nearness by doing this as you put your trust in Him. It is a kind of proximity and it means allegorically to: ?walk along the beach with the Lord?. The Most Gracious will lend his powerful hand and where your energy runs out He will carry you. This is surely the assistance God is mentioning in the Quran when He promises to help those who are steadfast and have Faith in Him.

There is a famous poem which was inspired to a certain woman named Mary Stevenson in 1936 which reads:
?One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints. Other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life when I was suffering from anguish, sorrow, or defeat, I could see only one set of footprints, so I said to the Lord, ?You promised me, Lord, that if I followed You, You would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed You the most, You have not been there for me??

The Lord replied: ?The times when you have seen only one set of footprints is when I carried you.??

Some variations of this poem exist on the Web, but I believe this one to be the original. The alternatives are adapted to Christianity with Father or Child and thus I disregard them. I personally take this poem as that God continues to inspire humans through all ages and that He did not stop in the 7th century. As you can read in the poem it means to hand yourself over to God entirely and put all your trust in Him.
The reason I put Guidance on the same level as Nearness is that I believe when one gets closer to God, then God will provide Guidance at the same time or at least soon thereafter. Guidance is, according to me, pretty misunderstood and some people believe that God only guides through the Quran, which I believe is wrong. God is not confined to some Book and will guide as He pleases. Many are the generally called blessed men who lived through the ages and many of them lived while the Quran was not yet revealed, and these people were guided. They had put all their trust in God alone and that He will lead them straight, on a straight Path. The Quran was sent down as a blessing, a bonus because God is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful and to set things straight. It is a Guide for those who seek Guidance, but not without permission by the Lord. However, the Message has existed all along and the Mosaic Law revealed to Moses millennia ago is still contained within the Quran. These words were few and were inscribed on stone tables on the Mount Sinai, but apparently they seem to be long gone. They are left within the Old Testament of the Bible slightly corrupted with stoning as a punishment for breaking the rules which is a punishment of Pagans. Moses? people were told to uphold the Law which only seemed to have been Ten Commandments at the time and this Law is still valid as of today.

Jesus was, centuries later (maybe a millennium or even 1500 years, but I am not sure), upholding the Mosaic Law and was simply exposing the clergymen of his time as well as bringing news of the Kingdom (Heaven). He was not there to sacrifice himself for mankind or any of the usual invented stories, and he was not a god or the son of God. He was simply a Messenger, although a very blessed one powerfully infused with the Holy Spirit (the direct spirit of God). Jesus seems to have been some kind of beacon in the timeline of Prophets, although I am not truly sure in which manner. Anyway, like every other Messenger he was a sign for mankind that God is present, always watching. He brought news for the Believers and clear warnings for the enemies of God (the clergymen and other hypocrites as well as those who disbelieve altogether). God decided to ?bring him back to base?, so He made the people believe they killed him while he brought his soul back before harm and suffering came to him. Almost instantly, and even before he is gone, he is the object of idolization by throngs of people who treat him as a lord.

And, about 600 years later, Muhammad is inspired by God and put to trial and seemingly manages to pass the trials, with assistance from God, and the Quran is revealed to Him. The Quran is the exact wordings of God, much like the stone tablets revealed to Moses, but way more detailed this time. It is the perfect source of scriptural information. The same as with Jesus, Muhammad is later treated as a lord and the Law-giver and a strong source of authorization to issue inhumane and ungodly rules for generations of so-called believers, which unfortunately the majority of people seem to have fallen prey to.

Before Moses came, Abraham arrived and there existed no scripture at that time. Everything was based on hearsay and the world population was small. I am not sure at all when Abraham lived, but I infer that he lived about 2000 years before Jesus, about 4000 years ago. I can by no way guarantee that this information is correct however. Take my guess with a grind of salt. Very little was written down of anything and what you knew was spread verbally. The only apparent other-than-verbal communication was paintings and inscriptions. As far as I know any uniform written language was not yet invented. This is why we have so little information from Abraham except what is written in the Quran. The Bible has tales about him, but it is difficult to know which are fairy tales and which are true. That Abraham was guided is proof that Guidance does not necessarily come by scriptural means. Guidance will come when we seek God?s Nearness, and that is a Truth from the Message, particularly when Faith is entering our hearts.

Between and before the above stated Prophets there were many more who ever roamed the face of the Earth, but I did not mention them here. They are also important as signs, but you can read about them yourselves if you are interested. They all had their own personalities and were not at all alike on the personal level although they shared one thing in common, Faith in God alone. They were not idol worshipers and they followed the righteous tradition (which was to live in the way of God) of their ancestors and they relied upon God for Guidance. Their ancestors only told them the important things like worship only the Lord and there existed not all these nonsense which were spread through the today so-called hadith. When they said to follow the ways of our ancestors Abraham and company, as retold within the Quran, it meant to embrace monotheism. God?s religion has never been complicated and filled with hundreds of rules but those rules that exist are pretty simple.
Pretty much everything of the practices were ideas of the Ummah (community), ie the uniformity of prayers and those fundamental things. I am pretty sure that there is no Rakah pattern or the other ideas taught by hadith of Muhammad and they may be later inventions. The word Salat basically means to contact God, not truly the commonplace prayer ritual. Do not get me wrong, I believe in prayers and God has told us to regularly make contact with Him throughout the day, and even at night.

I think prayers or communication with God was never questioned. It is very obvious that one should implore and rely upon his God frequently. And what is the first thing that comes to mind when we wake up in the morning? Well, communication with the Lord as is the foremost all the time. The same goes for the night when we retire for the day. Moreover, commonsense tells that some communication and imploration during the day fits in well in a Believer?s life.

The practices of God?s religion do not divert much from past prophets before Muhammad. All have had their Salat (contact/communication) and Zakat (good deeds/behavior or something like that in my understanding).

As far as I have understood the only prerequisites to reach God?s ?Kingdom? is to:

1.   Believe in God and His absolute authority
2.   Believe in the Day of Judgment
3.   Be a righteous person

If someone claims that you need to do more than this apart from some minor details explained by God in Quran you should not believe them. If you have more things you do they are personal commitments for God and nothing mandatory prescribed by God.

I think all (especially some of them like Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad) are idolized against their will and they were very modest and humble. They have their own days of commemoration and they are treated highly, more than a healthy hero of their people. We can follow their example, but we do not do so by having days for them or constantly including them in our humanly ceremonies or rituals.

Now, roughly 1400 years after Muhammad and about 2000 years after Jesus, we have the Quran and God to rely upon. Most people interpret the Quran as Muhammad was the seal of prophets and that there will be no more prophets emerging on the face of the Earth. Considered how often the Quran is misinterpreted I am myself not sure about the passages stating this information and in my head I find that Messengers would still emerge when blessed men reach far and God would excel their Believer status. Also considering the state of God?s religion, I would not rule out that God could have another Messenger in His plans. God does not actively guide through His Book, but by Himself personally, generally known as through the Holy Spirit. The Quran is what it is, it is scriptural information, even though the author is God Himself. The text or book is not magical on its own and will guide people only through their Wisdom and Knowledge.

However, God?s religion should in theory not be difficult to practice at all since we are spoiled with the Quran, but since Guidance is not connected to the Quran it does not matter if some people have Quran or not. Only muslims (peacemakers) will find Guidance as well as Nearness. We need to work on our personalities and behavior before God will actively guide us into Believers. And Believer status means Wisdom and Knowledge which muslims do not possess (yet). In my opinion, a muslim does not necessarily need to have a strong Faith in heart, they ?want to believe?, they are still searching and need to actively work, as I stated above, on their personality and behavior.

Just to make things more complicated, we are all muslims even when you gain the extra tag Believer, but there is a considerable difference between the two, and that has to do with Faith, and lack of real Nearness and Guidance, such as when you truly feel God is near and guiding you. We may of course deceive ourselves and believe we are guided, but then it is imagined nearness and guidance. A person who does not live by the ways of a muslim will surely not be near God or guided, so we can easily say that they lack Nearness and Guidance. You must see such things in others from their behavior. The example of the above can easily be understood by studying the Quran and why some people believe they are guided while they are not and that is because they are hypocrites. Are we not actively working for the last part of the chain about Peace, we will not be rewarded by the first two parts of the chain, it is that simple. This is why I refer to it as a chain.

According to me, you shall put yourself in God?s hands, trusting that He will lead you straight. Close proximity to God will grant you Guidance and in its turn will lead to the next part of the chain, Wisdom and Knowledge. And in the long run the reverent Believer (mo?meen) will feel a clear reward of Peace and Prosperity. When Knowledge and Wisdom starts to be granted to the Believer then information like the Quran and its meanings will become clear to them. They will see that the Quran sets out clear guidelines for those who have chosen to follow God. I will talk more about the next step in the next post.

I am not sure whether I covered everything I wanted in this post or not, so there might be a Part 2 of this category. I brought the poem up because I discovered it by chance some years ago and I thought it touched my heart entirely. Also, I think I slipped into things irrelevant for my topic and I hope you excuse me and you still like what I wrote.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

 But Jesus is different and Prophet Esa Son of Mariam... Both are different. Jesus was  someone who is crucified.
Allah will not allow his Messenger to die at the Hands of people... In Your Topi replace the Word Jesus with Esa.. then its becomes more authentic in line with Quran. Jesus is Anti Quran.. An imaginary sentimental character...
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Jango on June 25, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
Man of Faith
Salam

That was not a poem; a crystal clear assessment of her Life. Wow! For it is none but God Taught her the Words of the poem.

5:82   You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers to be the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the true believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

5:82   You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the people of reflection are the Jews and those who associate the knowledge of their books containing their own concepts and ideas. And you will find the nearest of them in affection to the people of reflection are those who call "We are humble and have no arrogance before the Wisdom, the Almighty Truth."

And with regard to the wordings of the poem of Mary Stevenson, the True Believer in my opinion that I gathered in just the two lines of her:

53:31   And to Allah belongs whatever is in the skies and whatever is in the earth - that He may recompense those who do evil with the penalty of what they have done and recompense those who do good with the best reward

?One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord. Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky. In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand. Sometimes there were two sets of footprints. Other times there were one set of footprints."

Just juxtapose the bold lines of the poem and the ayats' words. Allah was so near to her that in her dreams the angels by the leave of Allah made clear to her the ayat of Quran. One does not need Quran text to read, but spending time to reflect upon the Truth happening around one is sufficient to reveal from the Furqan, the Criterion from with in.

The two sets of foot-steps are: 1. When you walk along side of God as taking as your companion; and the other: when you exactly follow upon His footsteps, showing your obedience and dignifying Him, there is only One set of footstep.

fazl

Dear Drfazl,

Now I am made to Say ....Oh My Lord......The Lord has given you and educated you with Crystal Clarity. My Breathe goes in and in depth and  we say now  1:1 In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

அனைத்துப்புகழும்,அகிலங்கள் எல்லாவற்றையும் படைத்து வளர்த்துப் பரிபக்குவப்படுத்தும் (நாயனான) அல்லாஹ்வுக்கே ஆகும்....

How Its Clearly explained....The Straith Path... God bless DrFazl and Man of Faith.... My Prayer to Lord " Increase the more no of Wise people among the vice people...."


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 25, 2013, 11:09:47 PM
Quote
Your English is understandable, but often the word order can be a bit off or an inappropriate word slips into your sentences, or there are verbs put in the wrong tense. It is called collocation. And at one point you said you 'demand an apology' which is pretty offensive/impolite or shows you are angry. I understood you meant you wished someone to accept your apology though. Thanks to being exposed to the most absurd sentences at work I can usually decipher even the most incorrect of sentences.

Thank you for reminds me especially for the words "demand an apologize" which I always used in many posts.I never realized before if that words is very impolite.
So if it's not "demand an apologize" so what is the best word for asking apologize, bro MoF?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 26, 2013, 12:02:50 AM
Peace,

Sorry, but Jesus is Jesus, or Isa in its mother tongue, to me. Jesus was not crucified on the cross, the people were made to believe they killed him on the cross. I find this talk about Isa not being Jesus the prophet of the Gospel just a conspiracy theory to further nullify traditional religious belief, the same as some who want to erase Muhammad from history.

There is talk about Isaiha or John (Yahya) in the Bible, but I am sure they are each their individual persons.

The Gospel versions are man-made testimonies of what happened during Jesus life. While somewhat corrupted, its fundamental Message is the same as the Truth.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 26, 2013, 02:01:39 AM
Peace Earthdom,

First of all, it is the victim who would demand an apology. It is a strong request you make when you believe you have the right to it. You cannot, without being offensive, demand someone to accept your apology.

It is the culprit, the doer of the bad action, who has to apologize to the victim and in return the victim may accept your apology. An apology cannot be demanded by the culprit.  You can make an apology to someone, like say to them "please accept my apology".

When they accept your apology they (hopefully) have forgiven your for your initial offense.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on June 26, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
Peace,

You need to remember, I am not of those who believe God only guides through the Quran. God is not confined to a book and as long as information follow the guidelines set out within the Quran it is righteous to follow it. I follow Quran as the only set of guidelines, and they make me choose what to follow and what to ignore in my life.

God bless you

Very much true. Quran just confirms if you are on the right track and conforms to your comforted heart by the Truth; and not to your confronted mind. Quran always delivers us to a higher plane of wisdom.

salam
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: mmmm on June 27, 2013, 12:46:33 AM
Peace,

Sorry, but Jesus is Jesus, or Isa in its mother tongue, to me. Jesus was not crucified on the cross, the people were made to believe they killed him on the cross. I find this talk about Isa not being Jesus the prophet of the Gospel just a conspiracy theory to further nullify traditional religious belief, the same as some who want to erase Muhammad from history.

There is talk about Isaiha or John (Yahya) in the Bible, but I am sure they are each their individual persons.

The Gospel versions are man-made testimonies of what happened during Jesus life. While somewhat corrupted, its fundamental Message is the same as the Truth.

God bless you

Please see prof. Bart D. Erman for more info about gospels...
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 27, 2013, 01:00:05 AM
Peace mmmm,

I may do so at some point,  unless I already have and forgotten I did. I know they are not always giving the correct information and I know Jesus was sometimes confused with Isaiha or John the Baptist. But I have not based my understanding that Jesus is Isa based on the Bible but from Quran.

I find it just a conspiracy that Jesus is not the Jesus as talked of in all existing literature. Although I am not impossible, I may take a look at the work of this professor you referred to.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 27, 2013, 06:34:22 PM
Peace all.

Yes according to the Quran Isa was not crucified in the cross (salib) instead another people who likened like Isa was crucified.Some muffasir says if it's Judas Iskariot who crucified.

Some sources also says if Isa is not Yesus, so it can be say if that Yesus Christ is false Prophet and the real son of Maryam is Isa Al Masih.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 28, 2013, 07:51:49 AM
Peace Earthdom,

I still call it a big conspiracy theory. Jesus was not crucified, they were made to believe that he was crucified. But this prophet is the traditional prophet.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on June 28, 2013, 08:18:00 AM
Peace Man of Faith.

I found some evidences if Jesus and Isa is different person.

I will not show you the evidences because most of my literature is in Indonesian language instead just try browsing then you may found it.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 28, 2013, 09:22:15 AM
Peace,

I will try to take a look at it, but it would certainly make the Quran contradict itself in my opinion.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on June 28, 2013, 09:19:54 PM

Peace
Man of Faith

You can add your next post to the thread while continuing with your conversation.

Salam
drfazl
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 28, 2013, 09:48:08 PM
Peace drfazl,

Thanks brother. Unfortunately I think it will take a few days until I write the next one. I need absolute concentration when I write them and I do not have that right now. Besides I am on a travel right now.

I hope you have patience to wait. These posts I treat separately from all the replies I make to other threads.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on June 29, 2013, 06:08:35 AM
Peace supportpeacenotwar,

I am sorry. I should have known. Yeah, I understand what you mean.

I use English pretty much all the time, but I can always get better of course. Although all time spent with course books and other literature helps I guess. I have spent pretty much my whole life with English.

I ought not to brag, I try to see it as I am only a little better than I used to be. I am still far behind the best. Only sad thing is that my skill in my mother tongue is deteriorating since I speak less Swedish these days.

I stopped using contractions in forum posts for additional clarity, but I use them in conversation, and when I write a PM sometimes. Sometimes the written language even feels strange without them, but I am stubbornly continuing like this.

God bless you

(sorry I haven't replied to your PM yet, sister)

Peace Earthdom,

I try to express myself as clearly as possible although I tend to use formal words sometimes. You are right, little to no slang words or idioms.

Your English is understandable, but often the word order can be a bit off or an inappropriate word slips into your sentences, or there are verbs put in the wrong tense. It is called collocation. And at one point you said you 'demand an apology' which is pretty offensive/impolite or shows you are angry. I understood you meant you wished someone to accept your apology though. Thanks to being exposed to the most absurd sentences at work I can usually decipher even the most incorrect of sentences.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

Replying to the PM - don't worry about it. I get it.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Tigress on June 30, 2013, 08:50:43 AM
Peace justamuslim,

[13:11] Shifts (of angels) take turns, staying with each one of you?they are in front
of you and behind you. They stay with you, and guard you in accordance with GOD's
commands. Thus, GOD does not change the condition of any people unless they
themselves make the decision to change. If GOD wills any hardship for any people,
no force can stop it. For they have none beside Him as Lord and Master.

 

[8:53] GOD does not change a blessing He has bestowed upon any people
unless they themselves decide to change. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

[12:68] When they went (to Joseph), they entered in accordance with their father's
instructions. Although this could not change anything decreed by GOD, Jacob had a
private reason for asking them to do this. For he possessed certain knowledge that
we taught him, but most people do not know.

[60:7] GOD may change the animosity between you and them into love.
GOD is Omnipotent. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.



ONE DEEN

   :peace:

so the highlighted areas are what I do not understand. Those ayats essentially mean that it is pointless to pray for other people (ie they are doing something wrong, or they feel a certain way about an issue and therefore behave in a certain way etc...) because God will not change their outlook or perspective or heart without them acknowledging the desire to change?? And on the same note, since everything is pre-planned, what is the point in praying for things in your life (not material things but situations) when they are already destined to happen a certain way?
(i.e someone develops terminal cancer..what is the point in praying for a recovery or healing if they are going to die anyway?

Then Ive read (from spiritualists) that  if you talk to and pray to the "Universe" ...aka God?... you can manifest your destiny or the outcome of a situation etc, because the universe will respond to you...? but either prayer makes physical changes in this world or it does not. Either God intervenes or He does not. And if prayer does not change anything then it is solely for the purpose of communion with God (and because He asks us to do it) right or wrong?

As Ive read in scripture, if something is not in "God's will" aka his plan, then it won't come to pass. And also that God knows what is best so when things don't happen it is because we cannot see the whole picture and it wasn't good for us anyway.
Then I've read that "well if you develop a close relationship with God then His Will will automatically become yours, and therefore things you pray for will be in alignment with what He wants for you".

But no Angels or spirits every come down from the Heavens to let me know if I am on the right track. Aside from the generic blueprint to "live righetously, and give and do what you can to/for others" there are a lot of other issues in life that need responses or directive...and if you pray to God for help and don't receive it (speaking for myself, most of the time I don't receive a clear directive), then you must decide on your own accord what to do..so then what is the point in it all?

I just feel like it is a waste of time and energy to put so much hope and belief into prayer if it was never designed to be used in such a capacity. Id rather have no hope then false hope.

And if God doesn't change the condition of someone until they decide to change...then who is really doing the changing? Me or God? (i.e I'm hungry and I am sitting in a chair and I want to get some food from the kitchen...God isn't going to magically slide the chair that I am sitting on into the kitchen and open the fridge and hand me food. I have to decide to stand up and go walk into the kitchen for myself. So I am the one who made the change then no?
Does that analogy make sense or is it too simplistic?

 :brickwall:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 30, 2013, 09:52:31 AM
Peace tigress,

I am sorry you feel this way. I can see my belief is incompatible with yours since in my system God is always near and will listen to our prayers. Also I can understand it is easy to fall to this conclusion if one gives up too fast instead of continuing with steadfastness and patience. And thus God will not offer His weighty Message that He is with you.

My thread was intended to help people see that we need to build up a certain level of Nearness before we will see results in our relationship to God. Our Creator first tests our intelligence and test us in many other ways such as through patience and steadfastness. This does not say that God does not do anything prior to this, but then we have to be perceptive and keep an open mind.

As my thread tries to teach; when we have Nearness we will pretty much automatically also have Guidance. Greater Nearness may mean that God will show signs in our daily lives, often small and subtle, but the optimist will surely see them.

When we are gaining the next level, Knowledge and Wisdom, the previous part of the chain will have become strengthened, and I am sure most of those blessed with this level of awareness will see miracles pretty much on a daily basis.

Not to mention when you reach the third category, Peace and Prosperity, as then you will see a boost in provisions and those good things in life.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Tigress on June 30, 2013, 10:47:28 AM
Peace tigress,

I am sorry you feel this way. I can see my belief is incompatible with yours since in my system God is always near and will listen to our prayers. Also I can understand it is easy to fall to this conclusion if one gives up too fast instead of continuing with steadfastness and patience. And thus God will not offer His weighty Message that He is with you.

My thread was intended to help people see that we need to build up a certain level of Nearness before we will see results in our relationship to God. Our Creator first tests our intelligence and test us in many other ways such as through patience and steadfastness. This does not say that God does not do anything prior to this, but then we have to be perceptive and keep an open mind.

As my thread tries to teach; when we have Nearness we will pretty much automatically also have Guidance. Greater Nearness may mean that God will show signs in our daily lives, often small and subtle, but the optimist will surely see them.

When we are gaining the next level, Knowledge and Wisdom, the previous part of the chain will have become strengthened, and I am sure most of those blessed with this level of awareness will see miracles pretty much on a daily basis.

Not to mention when you reach the third category, Peace and Prosperity, as then you will see a boost in provisions and those good things in life.

God bless you

Yes I agree with you --God does hear and see everything there is no question on that. I can't say that our beliefs are incompatible, I am just trying to know what is possible and what is not. I know patience is important but at some point there is diminishing returns. Either something is going to happen or it is not; and no amount of faith or patience is going to change something that is not in written in Gods book IMO.
 Thanks for taking time to make this thread and I will continue to read
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: hawk99 on June 30, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
so the highlighted areas are what I do not understand. Those ayats essentially mean that it is pointless to pray for other people (ie they are doing something wrong, or they feel a certain way about an issue and therefore behave in a certain way etc...) because God will not change their outlook or perspective or heart without them acknowledging the desire to change?? And on the same note, since everything is pre-planned, what is the point in praying for things in your life (not material things but situations) when they are already destined to happen a certain way?
(i.e someone develops terminal cancer..what is the point in praying for a recovery or healing if they are going to die anyway?

Peace Tigress,

Thanks for reading my post.

Please read surah 18/60-82

There are layers of reality that we are not privy to, not even Moses.  I think surah
18 60/82 is a beginning in our quest to understand how prayer fits into our reality.

God Bless

   :peace:

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: 357 on June 30, 2013, 04:49:15 PM
Peace justamuslim,


Although I am not entirely sure about how it works since in Quran He tells us everything is prerecorded.



where? Thanks.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on June 30, 2013, 08:52:02 PM

where? Thanks.

57:22.  No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:

65:11.  No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

10:19.  And people are naught but a single nation, so they disagree; and had not a word already gone forth from your Lord, the matter would have certainly been decided between them in respect of that concerning which they disagree.

42:14.  And they did not become divided until after knowledge had come to them out of envy among themselves; and had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term, certainly judgment would have been given between them; and those who were made to inherit the Book after them are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning it.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on June 30, 2013, 11:17:13 PM
Peace,

I think drfazl brought up the ayah I was thinking of. Otherwise I have another one I can look up at some point when I have the opportunity. Right now I am not at home and looking for an ayah on this cellphone is dull.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: 357 on July 01, 2013, 01:58:12 PM
57:22.  No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:

65:11.  No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.


It is not pre-recorded, but recorded - evreything in your souls.......e.t.c

No affliction comes but by permission of Allah, according to circumstances......nothing about a pre-record .......  ;)

or is that wrong?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 01, 2013, 10:22:11 PM
Peace dear brother 357,

I will look that up more specifically later. To be honest, I would rather things were like you said since it seems more in harmony that way. But those Muslims that believe strongly in fate think differently.

But I think it is a false security to depend too much on one's fate.

Actions in life make a difference and we are born with free will, that is what I believe. But God may have laid out a destiny for us, I believe that too. If He wants us to follow something He decided no one can prevent that.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on July 01, 2013, 10:33:38 PM

It is not pre-recorded, but recorded - evreything in your souls.......e.t.c

No affliction comes but by permission of Allah, according to circumstances......nothing about a pre-record .......  ;)

or is that wrong?


Peace
357
Man of Faith

That was not my translation but a cut and paste of the verse. Can you explain your conclusion?
Can you read this para 1 & 2 of my post  http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg330991#msg330991  and see if there is an explanation to 57:22?

fazl
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 02, 2013, 01:42:24 AM
Peace drfazl,

Sorry for being confusing dear brother. While I believe in free will and actions, I also think this is what we are made to believe and feel about our existence. God knows everything and it would be to humiliate His grand intelligence to say otherwise. I tried to convey in another thread that I believe that God is able to work on several levels of awareness at the same time, beyond our ability to comprehend. At the same time, we have free will to make choices in our lives, but God always gets what He wills, there is no doubt about that.

If we cannot make choices in life then this trial is redundant, irrelevant. No, we have free will and can consciously disobey God and wreak havoc, however God can put an end to that any instant since He is omnipotent and aware of everything which happens down on atom level. God is in total control and we cannot escape His Knowledge of everything. Our deeds have dire consequences and God's plans are seamlessly applied to our running "game" world.

God created souls of energy which he inserted into our living bodies which are mortal while our bodies are eternal unless God decides to destroy them is where my philosophies go.

But that everything is already decided before we start would be making this trial redundant, not necessary. It is against logic. God also says he wants to expose the hypocrites and company.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on July 02, 2013, 01:55:13 AM
Salam
Brother

I do not understand this part:
God created souls of energy which he inserted into our living bodies which are mortal while our bodies are eternal unless God decides to destroy them is where my philosophies go.

fazl
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 02, 2013, 04:30:45 AM
God bless you,

Our souls (which are energy) were inserted into our mortal bodies here on Earth.

I wrote the wrong word in the end, it was supposed to be: "living bodies which are mortal while our souls are eternal unless God decides to destroy them". The souls are detached from the bodies when we die.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on July 02, 2013, 06:08:51 AM
God says this world is nothing but a trial to boastful men, to try their efforts and luck and see if they have any say over anything God had created in the skies and on the earth and that are in between. All your efforts will avail nothing lively. They cannot create a mosquito or a fly. Either you become a servant to the One Creator who shall make the creative force subservient to you; or to the contrary, if you want a FREE-FOR-ALL, it is towards your own destruction and you know that well. All your trial will teach you: It is "Trial and Error"  never  "Trial and Success" in your trial to create life with liveliness. You cannot get back anything from a fly if it takes away a thing from you. What free Will we want? Choice is between life and death; between health and diseases; between creation and destruction: what is your choice?

We are self-suffering, self-destructive, self-defeating and suicidal by opting for our free will i.e. freeing ourselves from the Will of God. Free-will is thus shaitan being active in every one's mind who does not reflect the liveliness of all the created things of God.

Peace,
drfazl
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: hawk99 on July 02, 2013, 06:26:54 AM
Our souls (which are energy) were inserted into our mortal bodies here on Earth.

Peace Man of Faith,

Where is the evidence that our souls are energy?

Peace 357, drfazl, Man of Faith, and the rest of the family

57/22 is one of the most debated ayats I have ever encountered.  There have been
some lengthy discussions about predestination.  If we are going to debate this amazing
subject, let us first decide which ayat/ayats we will read, that will hopefully shorten the debate.
My choice as a starting point is 18/60-82.  If any one has another ayat or ayats concerning
al-Qadr please feel free to contribute (65/11, 10/19, 42/14) are examples.

I will start the discussion:

Time as we know it does not exist for God.  yes/no


The articles of faith:

Amantu billahi wa malaikatihi wa kutubihi wa rusulihi wal-yawmil-akhiri wa bil-qadari khayrihi wa sharrihi minallahi taala wal-ba?thu ba?dal-mawti haqqun

Amantu billahi: I believed in the existence and oneness of Allah, that He has no partners or counterparts, that He has all kinds of loftiness and that He is free of all kinds of deficiency.
Wa malaikatihi: I also believed in the angels of Allah.
Wa kutubihi: I also believed in the books of Allah.
Wa rusulihi: I also believed in the prophets of Allah.
Wal-yawmil-akhiri: I also believed in the Day of Judgment.
Wa bil-qadari khayrihi wa sharrihi minallahi taala: I also believed in the destiny, that everything that seems as good or evil to us take place through the knowledge, law and creation of Allah. 
Wal-ba?thu ba?dal-mawti haqqun: I also heartily believed in life after death (and resurrection). All of them are true and right. 



   :peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 02, 2013, 06:51:21 AM
Peace hawk99,

The fact that the souls are not destroyed at death means they must be some sort of energy not permanently attached to the physical bodies we have during our stay on Earth. These seem to be contained by God in whatever way is beyond my comprehension.

Anyway, when the physical body dies here on Earth the soul matter is contained somewhere. It is not destroyed why it must be an energy, like people tend to talk about spirits. But I say spiritual energy. We are then brought back to God as He tells us in Quran, but the soul needs to be contained somehow. If you talk about my game allegorical ideas it would mean the data (energy) is backed up and saved in the memory.

It is not all that important, but if the souls were not a separate entity we would vanish at the moment of death, no more consciousness.

Well, the thread is not really about the thing you bring up for discussion. Anyway, for me it is clear that we can affect our path and choices in life make a difference or the Quran would feel very strange in its meaning. The meaning of God's trial and reason why we even are here would be redundant if we were not able to have free will or everything was already decided. It is basic logic in my opinion.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: hawk99 on July 02, 2013, 07:45:12 AM
Peace hawk99,

The fact that the souls are not destroyed at death means they must be some sort of energy not permanently attached to the physical bodies we have during our stay on Earth. These seem to be contained by God in whatever way is beyond my comprehension.

Anyway, when the physical body dies here on Earth the soul matter is contained somewhere. It is not destroyed why it must be an energy, like people tend to talk about spirits. But I say spiritual energy. We are then brought back to God as He tells us in Quran, but the soul needs to be contained somehow. If you talk about my game allegorical ideas it would mean the data (energy) is backed up and saved in the memory.

It is not all that important, but if the souls were not a separate entity we would vanish at the moment of death, no more consciousness.

Well, the thread is not really about the thing you bring up for discussion. Anyway, for me it is clear that we can affect our path and choices in life make a difference or the Quran would feel very strange in its meaning. The meaning of God's trial and reason why we even are here would be redundant if we were not able to have free will or everything was already decided. It is basic logic in my opinion.

God bless you

Peace Man of Faith,

Thank you for your reply, please ignore my previous post.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 02, 2013, 08:01:08 AM
Peace hawk99,

You are welcome brother. Do not worry about it. Religion is a very abstract and mind-intense topic (even if it should not be) and it is easy to fall unto conjecture. One has to seek refuge in God before attempting.

I am sometimes philosophizing on things I do not know for certain, but then I try to make it clear.

Also I try to honestly say it is beyond my comprehension why things are like they are in some cases.

But the topic I bring up in this thread, the main topic, is based on my understanding of Quran and is no guesswork. It might be heavy paraphrasing, but it was my aid to explain step A to B on the religious ladder, or chain in my story.

Of course Quran is truly enough, but it can always be interesting to view things in different ways as long as they follow the Truth. Mine is more like an illustration or more "baby level" of the religious path. Ah well, the human is the most argumentative type, they need much convincing. I cannot let go of that heifer memory when I speak to you ;)

"How much Nearness? When will Guidance come? What should I do with my Knowledge? Why will I gain a peace of mind first at the end?"

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 07, 2013, 12:47:53 PM
Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity

Post 3 ? Nearness and Guidance part 2

Peace be unto you,

Let us continue to elaborate on this thing called Nearness.

The most important thing to begin with on the path to become a Believer and not ?just? a muslim is to search for God?s Nearness. This is the most fundamental parameter in the acts of worship of God. Unless we try to get closer to God, He will not give us Guidance. The Nearness can be achieved not mainly through prayers but especially by heeding God and serving Him, the Unseen, through peacemaking (islamic) deeds.

As I have mentioned in past posts in other threads, we can summarize that the main goal in islam is to reach an inner Peace, and that meaning a peace with both yourself and your surroundings. Now in this thread I am finally trying to explain what I actually mean through this entire chain. We need to move from A to B, that is truly what we need to do, by picking up things along the way, which are things like Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom. A is when beginning to obtain Nearness and B once we reach the Peace. And when the whole chain is complete, although the links can always grow stronger, we can finally call ourselves Believers (or Mo?meen).

But to return to the step by step explanation; only by performing righteous, peaceful deeds and by showing a moral character can we get God?s attention and He will start to become our ally, sometimes instead of Shaytaan who has often been misleading us through our lives without perceiving. We are not invulnerable from the deceptions of Shaytaan when we get closer to God, but God will provide protection, especially if we ask for it which we should. This whole first part is what I consider the Nearness.
Let us move over to Guidance.

Guidance could be regarded as relatively closely connected to Nearness, but I consider it separate. However, I added it together with Nearness because they go hand in hand more or less. You will notice the connection quite colorfully soon as I continue to explain. Anyway, once Nearness ?points? have started to accumulate and there is a sense of Nearness, God will begin to grant us Guidance. Guidance is in the form of inspiration which influence our ability to make righteous decisions in life positively.

We can see it metaphorically as if God is lighting our Path ahead of us. Remember the poem I added in my previous post. It describes this idea pretty well. The stronger the Guidance becomes, which can never get maximized, the clearer the Path is in front of you. As the poem tells; it is not always easy to appreciate how much God is helping us until we ponder about it, and we will not continue on the chain towards Peace as long as we do not do so.

Once the Guidance parameter has grown very strong, the inspiration gained will also feel very real. God will show Himself through signs to you; more potent the strength of Guidance. I have no doubt if the level gets strong enough that God could literally speak through you. And an intelligent blessed man or woman can identify a guided Believer through how much this person ?shines?. Thus the person is practically infused with the Holy Spirit, which is also known as the spirit of God.

God is not speaking with us (directly) except under very special circumstances, but if He was it would feel like a very strong penetrating light (you can understand this by reading God?s own description of Him in a part of Quran when he talks about himself as a lamp). Either way, this is not what is meant with this talk about the Holy Spirit. God may contact us through an angel and then the angel is disguised as a man, according to what the Quran tells us. But in most cases and for most humans, God will never show such strong signs as sending an angel. They are only in special cases if the human is part of a plot which God has arranged or He has any particular interest in this person and God consider him/her very exceptional. The Believer should never expect God to show up or anything, and even if God shows something spectacularly strong at one occasion it can take months or years until you see something like that again. A year is nothing for God, and a Believer should also realize the life is very short and will soon be called back to his/her Creator. We should not become ?praise-junkies? and think God will reward our reverence every other day by showing a sign.

Now we more than covered everything which had to do with Guidance, or rather we did not even cover the half of it, but detailed information may come after I finish going through all the parts of the Believer chain. While the Guidance is growing strong, we will start to move over to the next part of the chain called Knowledge and Wisdom, and it is a very rewarding part of the whole Peacemaking work. It is connected to Guidance, but not as closely as between Nearness and Guidance. The sense of reward from God will be quite immense and I will be really happy if many of you who may be reading these posts will also feel this once we ascend on God?s ladder.

You can say this is the religion of islam; this is what islam is and it is nothing like sectarian ?Muslims? consider it to be. God is not a grumpy old man with beard who seems to be wearing military uniform and yelling: ?do 4 rakah, not 3 rakah?, ?you have to use three stones to wipe your ass?, ?eat only with your right hand?, ?use my prayers to say salam to Muhammad (where did this come from anyway?)?, ?this is haraam, that is haraam, music is haraam, pictures on the wall is haraam? bla bla?, ?You should sit it your mosques commemorating all your heroes because they are most honorable, they were really worth praising (why?)?.

No, this last part in the above paragraph is not islam. It was a sarcastic remark on the ones who are the enemies of God. They blaspheme in God?s name and invent a lot of strange restrictions and rules which God never authorized, and they mock and ridicule God in many ways too. If there would come a Messenger now, many of today?s ?Muslims? would be the new enemies of God?s Messenger without perceiving it themselves. History would just repeat itself, the pagans of Muhammad?s time would be the pagans of our time, ie the ones who once worshiped the statues would fight for their idol Muhammad and his family instead.

The last paragraphs were a bit off-topic, but why not some God propaganda as well? Let there be Light and there was Light.

Next time, God willing, I will move over to ?Knowledge and Wisdom? unless I do not find a reason to add something to Nearness and Guidance.

?May the Force (of God) be with you?; Or if you want to hear my regular phrase: ?God bless you?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: supportpeacenotwar on July 07, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
Once the Guidance parameter has grown very strong, the inspiration gained will also feel very real. God will show Himself through signs to you; more potent the strength of Guidance. I have no doubt if the level gets strong enough that God could literally speak through you. And an intelligent blessed man or woman can identify a guided Believer through how much this person ?shines?. Thus the person is practically infused with the Holy Spirit, which is also known as the spirit of God.

Peace Man of Faith,

Thank you for your post. It rings true on many things I believe and understand about the Quran. I've really enjoyed reading it and I especially like that part, it's a beautiful way to put the nature of a guided Believer. I appreciate the effort that must go into this.

May Allah swt reward you for your efforts
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on July 07, 2013, 02:40:39 PM

Peace
Man of Faith

If there would come a Messenger now, many of today?s ?Muslims? would be the new enemies of God?s Messenger without perceiving it themselves.

Light on the Truth.

salam,
drfazl
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on July 08, 2013, 06:53:54 PM
Thankyou, I will wait for the next part  :peace:



Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on July 09, 2013, 05:11:26 AM
Peace supportpeacenotwar,

You are welcome. We should praise God for all our righteous inspiration. It took me about 2.5h of my night to write it, but I gladly do for God. The Quran is easy and should be enough for people, but it is always nice to see a linear perspective of it. If I gather any information outside the boundaries of Quran I will state that, rest assured. I may present information which is not directly from Quran, as long as it is following the guidelines of it and does not invent any weird rituals or restrictions for which I have no authority. (Jokingly), if it would be a scripture, rest assured I would write 'Bismillah Al-Rahmani Al-Raheem', but only God's authentic scriptures carry this stamp :-)

Anyway, if God revealed yet another revelation, it would not change much from the Quran and may only be modern language but yet in the same unimitable composition which the Quran was revealed. The Message would remain the same, guidelines the same and the same goal to reach 'islam'. Of course, the new scripture would probably have a new worried Messenger feeling grief over the disbelief of people around him and the Muhammadans would stick to their idol.

Peace drfazl,

Sadly it is true, in case a Messenger of God would come today many so-called Muslims would literally attack this person if they had a chance and would cause much misery because they would reject him. As always happens, and as we can read in Quran, the history repeats itself despite the clear signs of the Lord. They interpret a verse in Quran as Muhammad was the last Messenger and Prophet, but even the interpretation of the Old Testament of the Bible tells there was a Messenger of God which was the last and may have caused the Jews to reject Jesus.

I cannot foresee the future, except by God's leave, but I certainly feel it is about time to teach another generation a lesson and show how many were the people who went astray again after God's last Messenger, Muhammad, who allegedly came about 600 years after Jesus.

Note: The above paragraphs about future Messenger was talking hypothetically. I do not know any arrival of a Messenger nor do I know God's plans. Only time will tell. But who would deny the theory that a new Messenger would not be right on spot? So much falsehood would be exposed once again.

God bless you both
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 01, 2013, 07:41:02 AM
Salaam,

I will be writing on this thread in about a month or two, God willing. I know I have left it hanging. I finished Nearness and Guidance but never got to Knowledge and Wisdom. I lacked inspiration at the time and that was why I stopped. And the upcoming topics are more advanced in their nature. It was a deliberate move. I wanted the posts to be of good quality.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: IAMOP on October 01, 2013, 08:38:05 PM
Peace!

One of those threads that really made me think... if anything is clear, it's that The God is clearly watching this forum and guiding the entire work.

Fundamentally The God's plan is to take care of the believers every which way. The right minds are brought here, and there, to deliver words and so on. It seems there is a storm of reformation already occuring, it is a matter nowadays less so of introducing genuine quranic sense (although many such introductions will need to take place) and more so of helping others to connect the dots. The dusty creaky house of misconception of 'IslamJihadAllahMuhammadPBUH' is being replaced by a shiney smooth polished and serene Palace of well, peace!

It's already quite clear that the children of the next generation are going to be growing up quickly knowing of their true nature as Divine citizens. They have been hurt severely by the last few generations and a lot of them are growing up directly wounded by the evils of the past idiots and consequently realising clearly so that peace is the way, submission to the creator. But also there is now the creation of a hypocrite who is also in that kind of path for show and glamour. Incredible isn't it! It shows one thing: that this life is simply completely irrelevant.

At the end of it, no matter what you really do, history repeats itself. And human nature, we all know human nature, if we do not laugh at it we WILL be crying! It seems it is the design of The God and for the express purpose of the probation of the entire human race that it is this way.

That is to say that The God trials humans in every season. We have four generations:

Spring: Growing from immense suffering, this generation works very hard to create the New World
Summer: The offspring of the prior generation grows up and continues the hard work, appreciating and witnessing the prior generation's hard work
Autumn: This generation is born into the basking radiance of Summer and knows nothing of the hard work or struggle of either generation before except a faint mention; the first generation where ingratitude overtakes gratitude
Winter: Nothing is known of hard work and the parents are idiots, and ingratitude reins and The God sends down pestilence!
Repeat!


Really there is no saving the world nor healing ultimately anyone but your self. If you heal yourself, you will be in a state of radiant bliss and everyone who sees you will wonder, "hey, what does this person do?" and automatically you will be a messenger of good news. But there is no point trying to save the world: The God is taking total care of the Earth itself as always, even as it seems like this is the worst it gets. As we know, man might be wiped clean off the Earth but Earth itself will tick tock away like it ain't a thing, so fret not. Our place is simply to heal ourselves individually, prove to the world at large that even in this incredible disease world, we are Healing and Healable, and to preserve the greenness of the Earth. Through these actions, peace will intrinsically establish itself. We do not need to champion any ideal like "quran only", such things only continue to transmit the vibration of separation and disinterest and hatred. True Peace is characterised by words and feelings that none but the hellworthy reject and as regards such people the entire population of Earth together including the others, will hate them anyway - incredible, isn't it? Such is the Way of The God!


I am stuck at a very bizarre point myself and I was wondering if anyone had an idea. My mind is going around in loops and my days are relatively empty. I have already found the way to total inner fulfillment and also something deeper and grander beckons: total activation of the human body. If you guys understand the chakra system, basically we are capable of being straight up superhuman beings. Actually what the "normal" people would consider "superhuman" is actually just human, truly human. When the crown chakra is fully open and transmitting and receiving Divine Light, you get a kind of fluidity manifest in your day to day living that is quite, radiant, shall we say. Miracles become commonplace and there is something far deeper at work. Telepathy, psychokinesis, all manner of things. I shall add to this in time but suffice to say it did not take the body 15 billion years to be shaped and formed for it to end up being really good at eating, shitting, walking around, talking, watching TV and nothing else. Let's put it that way!


 :group:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 01, 2013, 11:08:11 PM
Salaam IAMOP,

Thanks for the positive criticism.

I wanted to (partially) answer your question you asked in the end. When you have Nearness and Guidance as well as possibly Wisdom and Knowledge, you will feel almost "superhuman". I feel this way sometimes as it is right now, although I know it is not due to my superiority but rather God. Not to use an understatement, but God has come to be my provider and I am pretty relaxed due to this fact. There are often a lot of "coincidental" occurrences happening to my advantage and so on which I trust is God being my invisible guardian.

Since I decided to "walk along the beach with the Lord" I have had developed tremendously. From a poor salesperson with a low salary to tens of thousands of dollars. And my personal development is immense. Sorry, I did not intend to brag just give a hint to what God can do for you if you are His friend. I did not achieve this on my own.

I was really a loser who drank and used recreational drugs and ran havoc in the city at night, but I turned to God and put my trust in Him. Despite my craziness I gave to charity sometimes and had the heart in the right place even I had Jesse James or John Wayne as idols with a bottle of whiskey in my hand and a cigarette in the other. Once I picked my choice of betterment I have seen just a straight path. I cannot even socialize with my old friends; they are not sharing my view of life anymore, as they are still stuck in the past.

But I did not obtain all this success, it was God who did it thanks to my transformation. I even wanted to share my experience with people here that someone else might walk the same path. Some of what I say I barely know myself where I got it from.

Was this the kind of superhuman you meant?

I feel superhuman when there are paranormal activity in my life, which in fact is just God and fully normal, and things happen conspicuously in my favor. I have not yet been able to use the Force or perform telepathy, but been exposed to some other less obvious miracles. Remember God cannot be too obvious or other observers get an unfair advantage when they do not deserve it. But I wish you could see my change from five years ago and today. And I am not arrogant.

If you want to truly develop into a superhuman then meditate and try to nurture you soul and mind. Have Salat to God, frequently. Perform good deeds. Be friendly. Ponder upon creation.

And to those of you on this forum who have read about my hardships may know that if it had not been for God I could not have lived through them. My troublesome wife has not even broken me down despite being afflicted by Shaytaan. I did not even leave her amidst all chaos and I feel that is superhuman itself (or stupid depending on how you see it). She is still not free from the shackles of Shaytaan, but she is making progress. She may be one of my life tests. Some say I am arrogant to claim this about someone, but if you were there you would understand. Despite the hardships I did not abandon my faith in God, even when trembling in my bed for weeks due to an injection by a crazy doctor and was twisting in pain. I have learned so much about what the human being is capable of when you put your faith in God.

People twist the Message when they divert the focus on Messengers not responsible for anything but delivering a message. I am not to be thanked for anything I may have been able to change in any of us; all is due to inspiration. God inspires blessed souls around us. Several people may be blessed on this forum. God guides in real time and He does not even need His Quran; it is there to be a sign, proof of His existence and as a light guide. It is a curse to those with a disease in their hearts. It helps to remember the ayats of Quran, but it can only help to a certain point. Most important is you as an individual and your own behavior and deeds.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 18, 2013, 10:07:43 AM
Salaam everyone,

I think that the reason I have not continued on this thread yet if because I was not ready. I am beginning to feel enough inspiration to proceed soon. It coincides with the heavy research I am into with the Old Testament and New Testament. I am having a critical approach, but I am beginning to convince myself that I may be right. In fact I did not do much but God suddenly made it clear to me.

It is clear that the Wisdom and Knowledge granted by God is a specific blessing and as you know it is due to Nearness and Guidance if you have studied this thread.

If it now comes forth as true this crazy theory that the story of the Bible takes place in Fars, then it might give you a clue of what blessed Wisdom and Knowledge means. I do not claim to be better or boasting, it is just for demonstrative purposes.

Wisdom and Knowledge is to make the right choices and know the right things. But what is really right? This is why the second part of my thread is so hard to proceed with.

Anyway, few people actually get to this stage and if they do then even fewer get a big share of it. As you know the majority of people do not believe, they just delude themselves that they do and they show it through their behavior. But if you gain Wisdom and Knowledge, you will surely get Peace and Prosperity, because you are already a winner. Peace is the ultimate goal of Islam and I may have wanted to separate Prosperity from the third category and put it together with Wisdom and Knowledge, but at a second thought it is indeed coming together with Peace, and Prosperity is not necessarily about physical wealth. Peace and Prosperity is about feeling calm and that you have everything you need, the same feeling as you will have in Paradise. This is what Quran says that the people in Paradise will say: "This is what we had before". But more about this in the next stage of the thread: "Peace and Prosperity".

It is hard to describe this phenomenon Wisdom and Knowledge as it is very subjective. It occurs when you have Nearness to God and receive (active) Guidance from Him. If you honestly become mindful of God and work to purify yourself this will come to you for sure. Pure belief is not enough as I think I wrote earlier in this thread but you also have to become a good person before you will see results and proceed on to the next stage, the stage I am talking about now. You might even end up being able to say the classical quranic phrase: "I know from God what you do not know".

But you who feel that God's interactions stopped 1400 years ago are surely mistaken I am afraid. In fact something new is going on. We need to purify ourselves and be mindful of God and keep our minds open and see what the future has in store for us. But do not say: "My mind is made up!"

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Zulf on October 19, 2013, 11:23:39 AM
Quote
Pure belief is not enough as I think I wrote earlier in this thread but you also have to become a good person before you will see results and proceed on to the next stage...

Yes, in other words, we need to evolve, develop and redeem ourselves by TAKING ACTION here and now. This is action is not about saving the world or become a missionary or debate others. It's rather about doing good deeds... whether small or big. And a huge secret is that it needs to start from HOME and those closest to you. Many people are very generous and charitable, social and kind, to strangers, acquaintances and friends... but do not keep up the same good behavior with family. This is cheating and will not produce any good effects in us worth mentioning. We always have to work inside out, from small to big. This may sound silly but it is not to be underestimated.

In addition to good thinking, we MUST have good action, or all will be waste. Good, deliberate, frequent and straight action... no matter how small. This builds character... cleans your vibration, opens you up to higher "dimensions" and opens up new doors.... and this is of course an ongoing process that takes time and effort.

Peace!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 19, 2013, 12:14:58 PM
Peace be upon thee,

I am finally back in Sweden and I can resume the works of researching on the data I have acquired. Thanks for your input Zulf; it is always valuable to me, the things that you write. You are right. We are only expected to primarily be good people and any "missionary's" duty is also to advocate people to purify themselves and be good people and not teach them strange rituals and rules.

I think I am going to make this statement an initial, but here it goes again: The only criteria to enter God's Paradise is to believe in God alone, the Last Day and to be righteous people. Remember that a heavy weight is put on the righteous thing and it is harder than we think and an honorable objective of our lives. Being good is the point in God's system. It is really good versus evil, i.e pretty simple. And any sensible person can work out what that means and they also have Quran as a guide.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: good logic on October 19, 2013, 12:23:27 PM
Peace zulf, all.

May I add to your post, the following:

Believing in the truth is only an initial choice we make on the right path. Appreciating that truth and expressing our appreciation determines our true convictions. We express our appreciation by acting upon our belief and striving to lead the righteous life style dictated by God. Such expression of our appreciation by leading a righteous life is always a condition, side by side to our belief in God and the Last Day, to be redeemed (2:62, 2:112, 5:69, 46:13, 17:19 and many more). Thus, actively expressing our appreciation spells out the test of being on earth and constitutes a vital element for salvation.

[Quran 47:31] We will certainly put you to the test, in order to distinguish those among you who strive, and steadfastly persevere. We must expose your true qualities.


Peace to all
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 19, 2013, 12:42:33 PM
Salaam good logic,

Good addition. Thank you.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Tigress on October 19, 2013, 09:36:45 PM
Im sure this has been asked before but I have not seen it yet..but I always wonder if we were with God before we were born, how come we don't remember anything? How come the earliest memories most of us have of existing are from random, scattered projections from our childhood. I remember reading somewhere that the infant/toddler mind is the most receptive to our environment and to God because our subconscious hasn't been crowded with junk and schematics to tell us how to think, and what to believe. So then why can't we remember infancy? Why does it seem like we grow farther away from our true nature the older we get, and our subconscious is harder to access (even if we weren't engulfed by sin and the evil things in this world)? I always associate dying and ceasing to exist with deep darkness, and no sound at all like you are in a vacuum in space. Even though I believe in Heaven and Hell, logically I feel as if death is followed by the same nothingness that comes to mind when I try to recall my early existence. To try to envision myself as "spirit/energy" without my body seems too...cartoonish to me. I feel like it must be something unimaginable. Maybe that is way God left us with no recollection or perception of ourselves before our births.

Just some thoughts...
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 19, 2013, 09:57:34 PM
Peace be with thee Tigress,

It is interesting to think what we were before we were born into this world. It depends on what we believe. My interpretation of the Quran is that we are fresh souls assigned to our bodies and that they are thus new and it was just our ancestors Adam and Eve who were actually "blown into existence". Our soul is a copy of this "layout", but with individual traits and originality.

To elaborate more theoretically and hypothetically I believe we have a positive part of our soul which is God's qualities (which we can choose to use with our so-called 'free will') and a negative part which is Shaytaan's qualities, the Jinn part of soul. The thing, which I deem complicated, is that if you with your free will decide to follow God then your positive born "split personality" will dominate and you are a good person. It does not mean automatically that you are destined for Heaven as that requires belief in God and the requital as well as goodness, but it is at least one of the criteria.

On the other hand, if you choose to let the evil part of your brain/soul dominate then you have problems making righteous decisions and let "the whispers of Shaytaan" affect you much. Since you are born with a copy of Shaytaan's traits this is possible.

I may not be right, but these are my crazy thoughts.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: good logic on October 19, 2013, 11:43:26 PM
Peace Man of faith, Tigress, all.


[38:69] "I had no knowledge previously, about the feud in the High Society
.ما كانَ لِىَ مِن عِلمٍ بِالمَلَإِ الأَعلىٰ إِذ يَختَصِمونَ

This event must be something that happened before the creation of our universe?

God said:
[36:60] Did I not covenant with you, O Children of Adam, that you shall not serve/worship the devil? That he is your most ardent enemy?
أَلَم أَعهَد إِلَيكُم يٰبَنى ءادَمَ أَن لا تَعبُدُوا الشَّيطٰنَ إِنَّهُ لَكُم عَدُوٌّ مُبينٌ

When did He do that?

And;
[67-1]
Most exalted is the One in whose hands is all kingship, and He is Omnipotent
رَكَ الَّذى بِيَدِهِ المُلكُ وَهُوَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَىءٍ قَديرٌ

[67:2] The One who created death and life for the purpose of distinguishing those among you who would do better. He is the Almighty, the Forgiving.
الَّذى خَلَقَ المَوتَ وَالحَيوٰةَ لِيَبلُوَكُم أَيُّكُم أَحسَنُ عَمَلًا وَهُوَ العَزيزُ الغَفورُ

Also, [7-172]
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves: "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."
وَإِذ أَخَذَ رَبُّكَ مِن بَنى ءادَمَ مِن ظُهورِهِم ذُرِّيَّتَهُم وَأَشهَدَهُم عَلىٰ أَنفُسِهِم أَلَستُ بِرَبِّكُم قالوا بَلىٰ شَهِدنا أَن تَقولوا يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ إِنّا كُنّا عَن هٰذا غٰفِلينَ

When?

Finally[15-26]
We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.
وَلَقَد خَلَقنَا الإِنسٰنَ مِن صَلصٰلٍ مِن حَمَإٍ مَسنونٍ
[20-116]
Recall that we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan; he refused.
 وَإِذ قُلنا لِلمَلٰئِكَةِ اسجُدوا لِـٔادَمَ فَسَجَدوا إِلّا إِبليسَ أَبىٰ

I believe we existed before this  physical creation that we are in now.God ,out of mercy, is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves back to His kingdom. We committed the original sin--sided with Iblis-This  life is the trial
Contrary to common belief, the "Original Sin" was not Adam's violation of God's law when he ate from the forbidden tree. The original sin was our failure to uphold God's absolute authority during the Great Feud. If the human person convinces his or her jinn companion to denounce that original sin, and uphold God's absolute authority, both creatures are redeemed to God's eternal kingdom on the Day of Judgement. But if the jinn companion convinces the human being to uphold Satan's idolatrous views, then both creatures are exiled forever from God's kingdom.

[50:23] The companion said, "Here is my formidable testimony"
وَقالَ قَرينُهُ هٰذا ما لَدَىَّ عَتيدٌ

Peace to all.


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on October 20, 2013, 12:23:38 AM
Salaam,

Thanks for your valuable input, good logic.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Zulf on October 20, 2013, 10:32:28 AM
Peace Good Logic,

Yes, I agree with this understanding. This is how I see things too.

At first I was thinking that the christian Orginial Sin was something perverted negative... and nonsensical. Now I see it that it is probably just misunderstood and mutated, like so many other things. What I could never digest was the idea that we inherit sin from the those who committed the sin in the first place. It is as perverted as believing that God would punish and kill his own innocent son to save humanity (some of them at least). That's not love; that's unfair and illogical. In any case, now I see it that Original Sin is that thing, that rebellion, that rejection, by us, that caused us to turn away from truth and reality, and thus become blind and find ourselves in darkness, turned away from God and truth.

Our only mission on this Earth in this life is to redeem ourselves back towards God, truth, reality and the light. It has nothing to do with what God likes or wants, as atheists think it is all about. We are getting a chance to come back home, and this life is designed for that purpose. God's mercy is everywhere... but it is we who decide in what direction to go. Life is also beyond our comprehension and understanding, so we should be very careful not to jump to conclusions about God and life when we see misery, unfairness, filth, evil, sorrow and disaster. God knows what we don't know. We should not think so much. We should focus on doing good things, life-promoting things, progressive things.... good deeds.

I'm also amazed at the Great Impostor Morpheus... our most ardent enemy.... the Evil that constantly changes shapes and shows up in all sorts of guises, pretending to be good, but spreading disharmony, disunity, suspicion and fear. It doesn't matter WHAT this evil/devil is, as that is irrelevant. We can recognize evil by it's fruits, if we are honest. That's all we need. Evil will always be exposed, and it can never hide behind excuses. Fruits are fruits. It's time we stop associating things with God, things like messengers and tribes. And it's time we stop associating things with the Devil (whatever that is)... things like other nations, other religions, other cultures, human beings. God is too close to us for us to recognize.... and evil is too close to us to recognize in ourselves and our immediate surrounding. We look out there, far off, at others. This is why no-one will be prophet in their home town. We are only comfortable with things that are enough distant to us. We have no issues believing things, as long as they are not too real an close.
Evil is always the Other, not us. Miracles (outrageous nonsense) always happened thousands of years ago, not now. God is up There, not here. We will be judged Then, not now continuously. This is how we think and behave... unfortunately. The signature characteristic of the human being is Separation, in every sense.

Peace y'all!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 09, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
Salaam,

There is some gaps between the sessions where I write on this thread but it is far from abandoned by me. I just realized myself how much my sequential illustration of how the complete procedure of faith is constructed goes hand in hand with the main spiritual criteria of Qur'an. I discovered this when writing on another thread. If we take a look at my usual rambling about "Islam's" criteria (all over forum);

1. Belief in God
2. Realm
3. Righteousness

; we can clearly see that Nearness and Guidance belongs to criterion 1, Knowledge and Wisdom to 2 and Peace and Prosperity to 3. It was an interesting self-observation that I did and I had not even considered that when I first wrote the illustration.

And as I said on that thread (which I unfortunately forgot the name of) with my personal story about my coming to God and Islam I went through the criteria in an orderly manner from 1 to 3. This was never anything I had anticipated and all praise is to God alone.

Continuation Knowledge and Wisdom part 1

I never really continued with "Knowledge and Wisdom", but now we can say it means reassurance about the Truth of the Messengers of old and being able to use and understand the moral stories associated with them in a wise manner. This is what the category Knowledge and Wisdom really means. It may also reflect the common and often recurring expression from the Qur'an where known people say: "I know from God what you do not know". When you have Nearness and Guidance (criteria 1) and then build up Knowledge and Wisdom (criteria 2) and become strong on these parts together with Peace and Prosperity (criteria 3) then you may reach the know from God what others do not know. If you study Qur'an and simply are reassured that it speaks of a certain thing that is according to the Truth then this expression is rendered true, automatically, as you know from God what other people have either failed to realize or completely missed. It does not guarantee that people will believe you when you utter the Truth that you got to know, but you utter the Truth nevertheless.

The reason Knowledge and Wisdom goes hand in hand is because Knowledge is the physical attribute while Wisdom is the ability to utilize the acquired Knowledge. Knowledge in God's Realm is basically knowing the (true) Message while being able to filter out the falsehood. It is a constant process and I suppose most people will never know everything about the Message and you can know various quantities. When someone knows Knowledge that someone else does not you qualify for the expression: "I know from God that you do not". Wisdom is an accompanied attribute and is raised at practically the same "speed" as Knowledge and is the ability to judge more according to God's will the stronger this attribute is and taking one's Knowledge into account.

What you usually know as a "blessed man" is a person who has reached relatively far on the Knowledge and Wisdom category and knows much that other people are ignorant of and maybe even reject even if the blessed man is trustworthy. Blessed men are not always being listened to and may be mocked and ridiculed for their information even if it is the Truth. Just look at the Messengers of old, were they not mocked and ridiculed? Messengers are blessed men that have excelled in their rank and obtained Messenger status, of course all according to God's will and some of them are less willing to complete their "job" than others, see Jonah/Yunus for example, so it suggests Messengers are not even close to being perfect Believers but are in varying degrees and we should make no distinction between them but rather heed their Message and purify ourselves and form our own identities because the group of people that is admitted into Heaven is relatively small and there is no time to copycat and imitate Messengers in risk of committing idolatry. Follow in their footsteps is okay and it is their positive attributes which you ought to follow and not the pride of Muhammad, unwillingness to obey of Jonah or the aggression of Moses, for example.

They are all signs for mankind as well as deliverers of the Message (the Realm) and they show the disbelievers that they have something to fear, but they seldom take heed and are just confused and say that they are just tales of the past.

And then there are the hypocrites that lead many people astray just by pathetically preaching their (false) religion. They say that Jesus is the son of God while God has never said such a thing, and they love their Messengers as lords and as God should be loved. And they invent strange rituals and practices making God look like a tyrant or twist the Message with their tongues. These are the true stray people and your worst enemies, o fellow brothers and sister.

Strengthen your Faith, o fellow Believers and increase your Knowledge and Wisdom that you may save yourself and perhaps even a few friends from the Hellfire. Become blessed men and fulfill the three criteria of God's creed:

1. Belief in God
2. Realm
3. Righteousness

God bless you

ps. Where all that came from I do not know, I felt in trance  :sun:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 11, 2013, 12:04:55 PM
Continuation Knowledge and Wisdom part 2

In the last part of this categorical discussion I drew parallels between the main salvation criteria and my illustration model, and after I had posted it I realized I had not explained it enough, so I felt that I had to complement it with a part 2. With my previous post it seemed like one has to be deeply rooted in Knowledge and Wisdom to stand a chance of salvation, although this should not be necessary and is a flaw with my illustration for this purpose. I wanted to connect "God's Realm" with Knowledge and Wisdom as they are related to each other, but I did not want to make it seem like you need to be very knowledgeable to be forgiven.

By believing in the Realm of God means believing in God's plot, i.e. the Messengers and what God has narrated in Qur'an. It does not mean believing in everything we hear and interpret by reading, but we ought to believe that God sent Messengers to the face of the Earth that preached the Message. As you already know the fundamental parts of the Message are the criteria I so often mention about, so Knowledge and Wisdom is rightly connected to criteria 2 in ways. However, additional Knowledge can be knowing the exact Truth about some Messenger or the Wisdom might cause you to properly understand the moral lesson of a narration of Qur'an and this is a bonus of this extension of the blessings from God.

So by believing in the Message and primarily the three criteria ought to be enough for salvation and if you believe the Message you sort of automatically confirm that you believe in the Messengers and the Angels/Controllers. God's Message is actually pretty simple and most of Qur'an is only to convince people that God is really real and act as a guidebook for those who are convinced, and confuse the hypocrites.

Not knowing the exact Truth cannot mean that you are doomed to Hell as long as you had good intentions and did not engage in idolatry.

In conclusion; determination on the main principle of God's creed ought to be enough for salvation on parameter 2, meaning one-third (33%) is fulfilled by believing in this. Together with strong Faith (Iman) and particularly righteousness this is a winning concept, for with righteousness Faith will also skyrocket. It is difficult to use these arguments to say that a person qualifies for Heaven though as the true judgment by God will be made based on evil or negative deeds versus righteous deeds, plus taking the fulfillment of the main criteria into account. So fact is that Criteria number 3 is obviously something we actually need to put more focus on as the judgement will be highly based on it. This is something I try to make clear in all threads where I nag about good deeds and I am afraid that a lot of people miss this fact despite that it is very clear in Qur'an.

By very sterile logic I can put up a hypothesis: 50% of chance of salvation is based on the deeds and 50% is based on the Faith in God and the Realm. You clearly see that a poor attitude, arrogance and ego-centrism will bring an obvious disadvantage for the Muslim even if the person may max out Criteria 2, i.e. very good Knowledge of the Realm.

And with insufficient goodness from the Muslim's part will cause Faith to falter or not grow and the whole chain will weaken.

Question on the Topic for Readers

I have a question for those who read this thread:

I am curious whether someone had a different experience than I had of the coming to God, and by that I mean whether you came to the creed through the chain I have suggested, i.e. you started to seek His Nearness and Guidance, then built up Knowledge and Wisdom and first after that you begun to realize you had to work harder on being righteous (the Purification), or was it another way around by always done a lot to be a good person and purify yourself?

My model is constructed around a chain where you first need to come closer to God by seeking His Nearness and Guidance before you He will bestow any serious Knowledge and Wisdom in you. Real Peace and Prosperity also known as Righteousness will only come after you have the first parameters. Of course the Peace and Prosperity is a reward for the actual Righteousness, but according to my model one will not manage to be truly Righteous first after being within the proximity of God and possessing at least some Knowledge and Wisdom.

We need to remember that some sectarian Muslims are outwardly Righteous in charity and things but they are not doing it with their heart and beneath the surface is a plain ego, because they seem to lack the first parameters. The optimal charity is given out of love for your fellow humans without an expectation of any personal gain and for the being good itself and not only to satisfy a personal self-conscience or fear of God.

Thus my theory is based on that no Righteousness is accomplished unless you have strong Faith in God and His Realm. The Purification does not mean instantaneous Righteousness. If you do not know how to do it right God will not show the right Righteousness so to say, for example, when you have idols such as Muhammad or Ali, then God will prevent you from seeing clearly as to the creed (Realm) and Criteria 2 will not be reached. And as we know if you listen to the majority of people they will lead you astray, so one must use their intelligence and only listen to the relevant which can come from any anonymous blessed man among the people, or from the scriptures particularly Qur'an. "Follow the best and ignore the rest".

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 12, 2013, 03:31:53 AM
Salaam,

I composed a diagram so that you can more easily see the point I try to reach in this thread. It is still a pretty rough illustration, but the concept is clear. As you can see, Islam consists of all these parameters which I separated into Faith and Actions within the creed Islam. The illustration is as you see no chain and I will try to compose such a chain as well and the intention with this diagram was to enable the readers to see the elements involved in a graphical presentation. On the other hand, all the pieces of the cake form a chain so one cannot leave out any piece without breaking the chain which makes a Believer (Mu'meen), but as long as a person at least tries to follow at least one of the parameters he can be considered Muslim, because a Muslim works towards Islam, the condition not completely unlike Nirvana in Buddhism.

Like you saw earlier, I personally came to Islam through Nearness and Guidance first and after that Knowledge and Wisdom and lastly I begun with a true aim towards Peace and Prosperity. But I wonder if this chain of events is a standard and everyone get to Islam this way. Like I said before, one does not have to max out Nearness and Guidance to achieve some Knowledge and Wisdom etc, but it is kind of a prerequisite to at least being slightly mindful of God.

Circle diagram presenting a graphical illustration of the creed Islam

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 12, 2013, 12:06:49 PM
Muslim - Who is Muslim?

So we must kill the myth of who is Muslim and what being Muslim is and what Islam is. Why there is such a big misconception about this subject is because it is slightly complicated and due to our egos, but after this off-topic post it will become clear to everyone. The goal everyone who is a monotheist works towards is Islam and the person in progress is a Muslim because he wants to reach the condition Islam through the illustration in the previous post. When a Muslim has all criteria fulfilled and no doubts through strong Faith and Righteous deeds, then he is a Believer per God's definition "Mu'meen" which works pretty much like with the term 'Muslim' gives a status with the attribute Iman which cannot completely accurately be translated into Faith but is a very special characteristic in God's creed.

Iman, or simply Faith, is a value which can vary and is not fixed and suddenly flush into your mind but is something which has to be grown for you through all the before-mentioned criteria together. Even a Mu'meen is a Muslim all through his/her life, but the Mu'meen can be seen as a special tag for this Muslim that they are on the path of Faith. We might consider a Mu'meen to be a blessed person, who has all three parameters of my model fulfilled and is blessed plentifully by the Lord, but most importantly a Mu'meen does not have any doubt whatsoever about God, not the slightest doubt, so the circle is complete and the person only needs to work towards the perfect level of Iman. If my Knowledge increases about Iman I may be able to elaborate on this later, but for now I can only say that this is an opener when the person loses all doubt about God and his Realm.

Islam is not the name of a traditional religion, at best it is God's religion without any particular label, but is a description of the certain mindset of a person. A determination to first of all seek God's Nearness and Guidance, even without belonging to any group such as "Islam" or Christianity per traditional views, will make you a Muslim and not by going to the local mosque, uttering a shahada and expressing: "Now I am a Muslim!". Supposedly a person who contemplates existence and realizes that there has to be a Creator and thus starts to do something about it for the benefit of their very soul is a Muslim.

A Muslim can be naive due to ignorance and might not have Knowledge and Wisdom, but Faithfulness will, as said before, lead you further. Obviously, evil behavior and deeds will be counterproductive, but persistent determination that there is a One God and purification of the soul will turn the individual towards the Light. God knows the expression "Rome was not built overnight" and will be patient with you if you are patiently steadfast with determination to become better and purify yourself through mindfulness of Him and good behavior. Idolatry and dependance on religious sources without involving the brain God bestowed upon us is a dangerous combination.

Faith + Action = True

My expression: "Man cannot live by words alone, but must show it through his actions"

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 12, 2013, 12:38:07 PM
Salam

I believe both are protected and beyond human reach, unless and until they are free from Shirk (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336793#msg336793).

Knowledge

     Indeed, it is a noble Qur'an
     In a protected Book
     None can grasp it <- not for human to decide, never.
     except those purified (from Shirk (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336793#msg336793))
     (56:77-79 (http://quran.com/56/77-79))

Wisdom

     He grants wisdom to whom He pleases <- not for human to decide, never.
     and whoever is granted wisdom
     he indeed is given a great good
     and none but men of understanding mind
     (2:269 (http://quran.com/2/269))

Condition to benefit from the Qur'an

     This is the Book
     about which there is no doubt
     a guidance for
     those conscious of Allah <- conditions
     (2:2 (http://quran.com/2/2))

Peace all
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 12, 2013, 01:00:59 PM
Salam

I believe both are protected and beyond human reach, unless and until they are free from Shirk (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336793#msg336793).

Knowledge

     Indeed, it is a noble Qur'an
     In a protected Book
     None can grasp it <- not for human to decide, never.
     except those purified (from Shirk (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336793#msg336793))
     (56:77-79 (http://quran.com/56/77-79))

Wisdom

     He grants wisdom to whom He pleases <- not for human to decide, never.
     and whoever is granted wisdom
     he indeed is given a great good
     and none but men of understanding mind
     (2:269 (http://quran.com/2/269))



Thanks for your input. That is true and it is basically what this thread is trying to prove. Without Nearness and Guidance (and the involved Purification) one will not receive Knowledge and Wisdom through God opening your eyes and will be astray and devoid of the true Message. Trying to trod unto conjecture through not focusing on Nearness and Guidance by "cheating" towards Knowledge and Wisdom will only lead to the typical show of sectarians and Mullahs who look like they know a lot while they actually know almost nothing, particularly because they continue to adhere to associating partners with God and idolize Messengers, Prophets and others, and listening to false sources without wholeheartedly seeking God's Nearness and Guidance. And they are not using their brains. God will make it feel to them like they are right while they are wrong and they will say in the courtroom of God: "But we believed!?" while in fact they did not fulfill the circle of criteria as seen previously.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 12, 2013, 01:15:34 PM
because they continue to adhere to associating partners with God and idolize Messengers, Prophets and others, and listening to false sources without wholeheartedly seeking God's Nearness and Guidance. And they are not using their brains. God will make it feel to them like they are right while they are wrong and they will say in the courtroom of God: "But we believed!?" while in fact they did not fulfill the circle of criteria as seen previously.

Salam

Perfect  :peace:

           Say: Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds?

           (These are) they
           whose labor
           is lost
           in this world's life
           and they think
           that they are well versed
           in skill of the work of hands <- righteous peoples, good peoples

           These are they
           who disbelieve <- but they disbelieve, all or any part of the Qur'an
           in the communications
           of their Lord and His meeting

           so their deeds
           become null
           and therefore
           We will not set up a balance for them
           on the day of resurrection

           Thus it is that their recompense is hell
           because they disbelieved
           and held My communications and My messengers in mockery
           (18:103-106 (http://quran.com/18/103-106))

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 12, 2013, 02:02:29 PM
Salaam,

I interpret ayat in that verse you talk about as signs and not the actual literal passages. Not exactly the same interpretation we have.

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَلِقَائِهِ فَحَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فَلَا نُقِيمُ لَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَزْنًا [18:104]

If you do not believe the signs which make you determined that God exist and that you will stand trial in front of God you will be among the losers because the whole chain of what is in the creed Islam is never fulfilled. It is not Qur'an exclusively that is required but Faith in God and the Last Day, Realm or his Message which has been the same all the time. If you fail to acknowledge God and His Message your deeds, no matter good or bad, seems to not mean anything at all on the Judgment Day and you have failed on Criteria 1 and 2 but fulfilled 3 which mean nothing anyway. We need to remember it has been Islam at least from the time of Abraham and he did not have any access to Qur'an but he discovered about God and thus he came to know that he would stand trial.

The whole test seems to be to become determined that God exists and is your Master, you will be responsible for your deeds and judged and the ayat we discuss say that you fail to discover about God then all you did will be completely meaningless in the courtroom of God. It is like discovering a hidden treasure only knowing some hints and if you fail before time is up it is game over, forever. Most people want to know why we are here and the answer is right in front of their very eyes and yet they fail to see that it is because of God.

And there are people who say they believe but are spreading mischief across the land and they obviously do not believe as they would know their behavior will lead to that they chain will not be fulfilled and they probably failed on all parameters even if they thought they believed.

Anyway, Qur'an is a perfect guidebook and it is wise to follow it to the best of one's capability. This book will lead one towards God if you seek His Nearness and Guidance as well as protection from the Evil One and his followers.

Our difference in interpretation of the verse do not really change much except placing a fixation on the Book instead of the Message, in my opinion. Still nothing to argue about as long as we follow the Message, and the Book and seek a close proximity to God. The Judgment God is responsible for and we should do our best according to our minds and ability to see reason.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 12, 2013, 08:03:26 PM
I interpret ayat in that verse you talk about as signs and not the actual literal passages. Not exactly the same interpretation we have.

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَلِقَائِهِ فَحَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فَلَا نُقِيمُ لَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَزْنًا [18:104]

If you do not believe the signs which make you determined that God exist and that you will stand trial in front of God you will be among the losers because the whole chain of what is in the creed Islam is never fulfilled. It is not Qur'an exclusively that is required but Faith in God and the Last Day, Realm or his Message which has been the same all the time. If you fail to acknowledge God and His Message your deeds, no matter good or bad, seems to not mean anything at all on the Judgment Day and you have failed on Criteria 1 and 2 but fulfilled 3 which mean nothing anyway. We need to remember it has been Islam at least from the time of Abraham and he did not have any access to Qur'an but he discovered about God and thus he came to know that he would stand trial.



Salam

If you wish, there is nothing wrong to interpret it as "signs" and if one reading the whole Qur'an, the word must refer to "Ayat" or "actual literal passages" and it can be "proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations etc". If it is to be treated as "signs", then it is signs specifically mentioned by Allah in the Qur'an. This is the "main premises" from the Qur'an and the basis that Allah wants human to start their comparison or reasoning and learn from. Therefore, it is the "actual literal passages", and then expand from there, from the "Muhkamat" and not the "Mutasyaabihat" (Allah's trap (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605966.msg341365#msg341365)) (3:7 (http://quran.com/3/7)) (10:39 (http://quran.com/10/39)).

This is so since everything must start from the Qur'an (constitution) and the meaning expands from the Qur'an according to the types of ayat and its "priority (awwaliyah)". That is why we must first "Islam" (submission) to the Qur'an, yet, faith is still not in our heart. It is Allah who will insert faith in our heart, based on level of our submission to the ayat in the Qur'an (just). Therefore, faith or believe or not believe, is something not for human to decides and therefore, it is the Qur'an exclusively that is required; ie. Submission (Islam).

        The bedouins say, "We have believed."

                Say, "You have not [yet] believed
                but say, 'We have submitted,' <- Islam
                for faith has not yet entered your hearts.   <- no faith, faith is equal to "monkey love" (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337741#msg337741)

        And if you obey Allah and His Messenger <- Islam, vs. disobedience, all or any part of the Qur'an
        He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- see below
"NOT DEPRIVE OF ANYTHING" means does not require "FAITH". In fact, does not even have to believe in Allah existence!
        Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." <- as long we submit, Allah is forgiving, even if we have 0% faith

        The believers are only the ones
                who have believed in Allah and His Messenger
                and then doubt not
                but strive with their properties and their lives
                in the cause of Allah
                It is those who are the truthful.

        Say, "Would you acquaint Allah with your religion
        while Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth
        and Allah is Knowing of all things?"

        They consider it a favor to you that they have accepted Islam

        Say, "Do not consider your Islam a favor to me.
        Rather, Allah has conferred favor upon you
        that He has guided you to the faith <- it is Allah who will give us faith, not human
        if you should be truthful."                     and based on our ability to "obey" to simple rules; ie. Islam
        (49:14-17)

Therefore, the focus for our salvation is not relating to "what we believe or not believe", BUT what we "obey or disobey". This means it is the Qur'an exclusively that is required, ie. "actual literal passages" and observation on the "DO NOT" prohibition (method, refer here (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg339592#msg339592)). What we believe is the bonus to our salvation.



It is not Qur'an exclusively that is required but Faith in God and the Last Day, Realm or his Message which has been the same all the time. If you fail to acknowledge God and His Message your deeds, no matter good or bad, seems to not mean anything at all on the Judgment Day and you have failed on Criteria 1 and 2 but fulfilled 3 which mean nothing anyway. We need to remember it has been Islam at least from the time of Abraham and he did not have any access to Qur'an but he discovered about God and thus he came to know that he would stand trial.

Since the day the Qur'an has been perfected, it is Qur'an exclusively that is required and submission without faith is sufficiently enough for one to enter Paradise. Allah does not require faith for one to be in paradise. The minimum requirements (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337683#msg337683) is Islam (submission) and they will be the companions of the right, even with 0% faith or not sincere, and as long they obey 100%, from level of his understanding. Those who fail are the one who denies all or any part of the Qur'an, those who ignore the word "DO NOT" in the Qur'an (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605770.msg337244#msg337244), even 1% (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335603#msg335603). They are companions of the left. The highest achievements (http://quran.com/10/62-64) are "faith" without doubts and no grieve (http://quran.com/10/62-64), while live in the cause of Allah and obeying all rules in the Qur'an. Therefore, we don't need to fulfill all the criteria or complete the circle to enter the Paradise.

        And you become [of] three kinds:

(1)    Then the companions of the right <- based on submission (Islam), even 0% faith
        what are the companions of the right? <- not yet certain to be in Paradise, may also be in the Fire

(2)    And the companions of the left <- deny all or any part of the "DO NOT" prohibition (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605770.msg337244#msg337244), even 1% (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335603#msg335603) - borderline (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335266#msg335266) [40:4] (http://quran.com/40/4)
        what are the companions of the left? <- certainly to be in the Fire, the transgressors

(3)    And the forerunners, the forerunners <- based on submission, and level of faith (complete circle?)
        Those are the ones brought near [to Allah] <- certainly to be in Paradise
        In the Gardens of Pleasure
        A [large] company of the former peoples
        And a few of the later peoples <- Why? Refer here (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605855.msg338581#msg338581)
        (56:7-14 (http://quran.com/56/7-14))


        There is not upon the doers of good any cause [for blame] <- Islam, submission
        (9:91 (http://quran.com/9/91))

        Allah does not charge a soul
        except [with that within] its capacity <- Islam, submission, even with 0% faith
        (2:286 (http://quran.com/2/286))                                                  and, capacity is referring to"signs" or clear and "actual literal passages"?


These were my views. Allah knows best.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 12, 2013, 10:12:21 PM
continue

        He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything <- see below
"NOT DEPRIVE OF ANYTHING" means does not require "FAITH". In fact, does not even have to believe in Allah existence!
        Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." <- as long we submit, Allah is forgiving, even if we have 0% faith

Further, it is may become big mistakes or errors not to believe in Allah existence and merely obey what is in the Qur'an
but that is not the issue since Allah says, "Allah is Forgiving and Merciful"
and the term "Allah" itself is the "Mutasyaabihaat" which no human beings are able to control how to believe in Allah. (sura al-ikhlas)
Therefore, it is Allah who will "guided us to faith" in His existence
based on the level of our submission on all the "clear" rules from the Qur'an
and surely, "Allah will not charge a soul except with that within its capacity "; ie. our faith, believe or not to believe in Allah


Therefore, "obedience" to the rules in the Qur'an is the most important things for our salvation.
ie.  the "actual literal passages", the Muhkamat, and not the Mutasyaabihaat.
our "faith" is totally dependant on our level of submission to the Qur'an (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337683#msg337683)
and the terms "Muslims"
do not necessarily mean the so-called "Muslims" in today's world definition
ie. the sectarian definition of Muslim

       "We hear and we obey"
       (2:285 (http://quran.com/2/285))

       And remember the favor of Allah upon you
       and His covenant <- Islam is a contract to obey
       with which He bound <- Qur'an is the terms and conditions of contract
       you when you said,
       "We hear and we obey" <- Never ever breach your contract!
       and fear Allah
       Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts
       (5:7 (http://quran.com/5/7))


These were my views, the non sectarian or non religious views (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337628#msg337628). Allah knows best.

Peace all
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 13, 2013, 01:00:43 AM
Salaam,

I do not agree with this but we can agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 13, 2013, 03:06:07 AM
Salam

These are only my views and you don't have to agree.  I agree to disagree. :handshake:

Peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Lena on November 13, 2013, 09:50:45 AM
Peace Man of Faith and Muslims   I have really enjoyed reading your posts. I believe in God 100%, believe in the angels, the Judgement Day and make an effort to regularly do righteous deeds for others but no matter how hard I try to be 100% obedient to God's message, I continue to committ sins. There are times when I am really exhausted from the struggle against the sinful part of my nature. Especially when I am physically or mentally tired and in a weak spiritual state, I fall down under Satan's influence.  I place my trust in God, pray that I will be protected against Satan, go for a few years on the straight path feeling spiritually at peace, then wham!! Satan fells me with a knock out blow when I least expect it.  Sometimes I can quickly pick my self back up, repent and ask God's forgiveness, with a renewed committment to obey God. Sometimes it takes me a longer time to find my way back to the straight path and I need the support of righteous non judgemental people.

So I have some questions - how can we be 100% obedient at all times in our life when we are only human? Perfection is a quality of divinity not of human kind. Isn't it true we are all sinners? How do we attain that permanent state of spiritual peace when we are in an ongoing jihad with Satan until we die!! Are  any of us so arrogant as to feel we have done enough to secure our place in heaven?   Is there a spiritually mature Free Minds Muslima (female), who would like to be my mentor, confidante and support during the down times?


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on November 13, 2013, 11:33:00 AM
So I have some questions - how can we be 100% obedient at all times in our life when we are only human? Perfection is a quality of divinity not of human kind. Isn't it true we are all sinners? How do we attain that permanent state of spiritual peace when we are in an ongoing jihad with Satan until we die!!


Salam

Thank you and what you asked is too high, which many are not willing to pay for the price. Many are just "wishing" but not really serious about attaining it, or not serious enough.



However, I believe if it is "too perfect", then it is "too perfect".

What else should it be?  ???

We are indeed, only human, and that's why we have Allah.

Further, it is the behaviour of a True Auliya... perfection, ie. optimizing good, bad, mistakes etc.



Therefore, we cannot be 100% obedient at all times in our life.

It is in fact the most irrelvant question since "obedient and perfection is a process". (1 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337720#msg337720), 2 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337721#msg337721), 3 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337725#msg337725), 4 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338195#msg338195), 5 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338241#msg338241))

It is only Allah that can make us perfect and be 100% obedient at all times in our life.

       Allah has promised
        those who have believed among you <- conditions, the process to believe?
       and done righteous deeds <- justly balanced, understand and communicating with the Sunnatullah (IQRA)
       that He will surely

(1)  grant them succession [to authority] upon the earth <- Khalifa, and of course, not like world leaders today
       just as He granted it to those before them                all or many of them are not known by the public, but in control

(2)  and that He will surely
       establish for them [therein]
       their deen <- 100% obedience - perfection
       which He has preferred for them

(3)  and that He will surely <- no fear, or grieve - "attain that permanent state of spiritual peace"
       substitute for them
       after their fear, security

(4)  [for] they worship Me <- free from shirk of any kind, refer here - 1 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336782#msg336782), 2 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336793#msg336793), 3 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336800#msg336800), and 4 (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337683#msg337683)
       not associating anything with Me

       But whoever disbelieves after that
       then those are the defiantly disobedient
       (24:55 (http://quran.com/24/55))


     It is You we serve <- serve comes first, only then eligible to ask for help
     and You we ask for help                               otherwise, logically, no help.
     (1:5 (http://quran.com/1/5))


The Process

However, Allah cannot make you perfect if "you wants" to be perfect.

There is no such things as "I want".

It doesn't work that way.

It is always working in the opposite direction.

That is, you must "not be perfect" for "Allah to makes you perfect".

Therefore, there is no "I", "I want" or "I am", "I this..", "I that.." or even "I feel" .. too many "I's", and of course, not even "I" and "Paradise" or "Hell Fire". Allah is not our slave, we are .. and there is nothing in our ibada is for Allah, it is actually for ourselves, ie. solah, fasting, sadaqah, righteousness etc. It is the deen, our deen, not Allah, and for our benefits. Allah don't need our ibada etc.

Therefore, what is for Allah?

All that we do is for ourselves, and there is nothing for Allah.

Who is Lord?

Isn't He is the One who supposed to be our Lord?

This is the factor that determines the "attain that permanent state of spiritual peace", and it is in conflict with the Sunnatullah, ie. 1 & 1.

Since this is a complicated issue.. I just put in summary, something that you can get some idea on its process.


What does Allah want to see from us?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338195#msg338195

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg339592#msg339592


What should we do?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336189#msg336189

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336800#msg336800


Okay, how? (Allah's standard)

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337102#msg337102


Why?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335950#msg335950


Proof?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335891#msg335891


Some example?

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336010#msg336010


Consequences

       It is You we serve
       and You we ask for help
       (1:5)

       And when your Lord proclaimed
       'If you are grateful
       I will surely increase you [in favor]
       (14:7)

Understand the Qur'an (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337683#msg337683)... which will bring us to 100% obedience.


This is the process for the "attain that permanent state of spiritual peace", but as I said, many not willing to pay for the price. Therefore, it is a very complicated question, because they are "unwilling" or just "wishing".


These were my views. Allah knows best.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 13, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
Salaam Lena,

Thanks for your positive criticism. I have tried to put all my thinking power into this topic and hopefully some inspiration from the One.

There is a simple answer to your question about sins and fact is that we are sinful by nature and also the pressure from Shaytaan in this world is immense. I will be completely honest with you; I also commit sins and I think most, if not all, of us commit sins, but an important thing is to be conscious about your sins and try to do something about them and purify yourself with God's help. With God's Nearness and Guidance we can minimize our sinful behavior although I doubt we can eliminate them altogether unless we "become a Jesus" who might have had a certain advantage over us. I do not know how "purified" a person can become though and I suspect you can reach pretty high levels where you have a very good control over your sins, but you still can probably not say that you have never sinned.

Muhammad, as according to Qur'an, seem to had come to Faith and was still warned for some obvious mistakes such as judging two men by their looks where an appealing man was preferred instead of a poor blind man or when he let his wives had him make an unwise decision. We are not invulnerable to sins even if we are Messengers.

Moses killed a man of the Egyptians because he wanted to protect one of his people without asking for what reason they fought and the next day the same man was engaged in a fight again, and consider that God even forgave manslaughter you shall know the mercy of the Lord. Moses was honest with himself and God and confessed that he had been subdued by the devil, and suddenly as he had this realization a man (as a blessing) came and warned him that Pharaoh's people were out to get him so he escape. You see, the lives of the Prophets and Messengers were filled by mistakes and probably not only those which were highlighted in Qur'an and previous scriptures, so do not you worry about your sins my friend Lena.

One of them even rebelled, Jonah (Yunus) he boarded a ship and disobeyed God because he was fed up with his "assignment" and then swallowed by a fish at sea but he repented and thus God showed him His immense mercy and Jonah could continue his assignment after being miraculously ejected from the sea-creature's belly and up on the seaside.

Noah tried to defend his disbelieving and disobedient son and was met pretty harshly by God's words (I felt God was really angry in this narration) and he repented to God and God was forgiving and let him off the ship in peace.

You see, dear sister Lena, that the Messengers could sin pretty badly and still be forgiven by God and even continue their Messengership because they were honest in their Faith and they repented wholeheartedly and perhaps did not think of the consequences of their actions at first such as when Moses killed the Egyptian, think of the feelings of the Egyptian's wife and family and their immense sorrow at the loss of their beloved despite being of the oppressing faction the Egyptian might have been innocent of blame and might have just been defending himself against the one of Moses' people, a case of assault.

There is a moral lesson for all the narrations God makes in Qur'an (and possible older scriptures if they are not lies) and one has to listen carefully to them and only the intelligent ones will understand them thoroughly. I must admit that I think expressions from the Bible's Gospel testaments are authentic and coming from a man of God for they are sure wise.

Please do not be afraid as long as you keep being mindful of God and working towards purification. Follow my advice with the circle of Faith or not, but keep God in mind at all times and seek to be a Righteous and pious Believer. Please seek God's Nearness and Guidance and you will, God willing, get Knowledge and Wisdom and in the end you will have Peace and Prosperity. Follow this advice and I can guarantee you in the Lord's name that this is what you shall get. Stay strong and keep being steadfast.

I am better now than I used to be and I praise God for that and that I have become closer to Him, but I suppose I have to work my whole life to become satisfied with the result. This is the result of my devotion to God and that I struggle hard to serve the Lord in every way I can even if I might not always please Him in my ignorance, but I have tried to be steadfast and I was determined that God would be real even if I had not yet Faith grown in my heart and eventually I reached a point where I realized I had not doubt whatsoever anymore. And the constant signs from God that I perceive reassures me further more and are perhaps a reward for being steadfast in Faith. No intention to brag, I just want to share that so someone can see how good the reward is for having believed and begun to receive Peace and Prosperity.

We are tested throughout our whole lives and when we have come to Faith we are tested in new ways and it can be applying the new Knowledge and Wisdom we have acquired in situations when others are preventing us from being righteous and then we need to deal with this too and it can be hard (from own experience) and we have to continue being steadfast even after Faith has come to our hearts and we (God willing) fulfill Islam's criteria.

It is this intention to purify yourself and become better which is most important and being kind and generous is a very good start to reach a good moral character. Qur'an is very thorough in telling the steps on how to better yourself and get rid of negative traits such as arrogance and selfishness. "Kill your ego" is a very good expression which signifies what has to be done in general. The optimal scenario would be that if we just gave away all our annual income and only lived moderately and spent much time helping others in various ways. Certainly those with big egos would exploit you, but I am sure that God would also help you and God said to the people to use their brains and be wise, in the end you would be able to see those who really need help against those who just want to be exploitative and hoard money fraudulently.

With big Faith you will likely be able to invoke God's wrath and be able to get people punished by those who exploited you and if not that God will take care of them in the end, you can rest assured. No reason to cry over spilled milk. Laughs best who laughs last. But best is to offer the other cheek if they hit you on one cheek, allegorically, and try to meet cruelness with kindness. It is hard, but yet the best solution. Revenge is never beneficial except for your ego. I recommend to try to meet evil with kindness, it is an interesting alternative and you might see perhaps unexpected results as in walking out as the winner in the end even if you were fooled and ill-treated at first in various ways. Jesus (allegedly) said: "And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well" and it might not make sense from a first glance but if you consider it from different angles you might understand what is good with it. Evil and vice might impress you and seem an easy way to slide through a life, but it only leads to destruction and the person who follow God's guidelines in His Qur'an will see that the cheap material gains are not worth a penny compared to coming to Faith.

Are  any of us so arrogant as to feel we have done enough to secure our place in heaven?

I do not want to call myself arrogant and I do not know my fate, but my mind is quite at peace about this and I do not worry much. I take the requital from the Lord and I am aware that for any bad I do I am responsible. No I do not know if I am destined for Heaven or Hell, but I am not afraid. Not sure if you can know subconsciously within your soul when you are ready, but I do not feel I am ready yet, I have lots to fulfill still. But no, it does not stress me much anymore except some people in my vicinity act as brake pedals unfortunately but my trust is in the Lord.

Quote
So I have some questions - how can we be 100% obedient at all times in our life when we are only human?

See the paragraphs above where I talk about the Messengers and Prophets.

God bless you and good luck on your journeys
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 28, 2013, 03:10:21 PM
Peace and Prosperity (Righteousness)

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)
Okay. Let us continue with the final part of my thread's contents which is Peace and Prosperity which basically can be related to Righteousness. If you have studied my thread and what I have said up until now I think you will understand why I put it under just this category. After I am done presenting this part of my studies I will elaborate more on what I have been writing all the time until now and hopefully more intricate Wisdom. The whole purpose of this thread was to encourage Wisdom through a more more graphical presentation of the Message of God. Not saying God's Message in Qur'an is inadequate, but this is only a bit more "streamlined" but nothing blasphemous.

When you have reached this far onto the chain, your faith is reflected through your actions very convincingly and you certainly are aware of the living and you appreciate God's provisions that he bestows upon you. It could also be regarded as an engine which fuel is faith and through this use of fuel one is able to run the whole ship towards righteousness. To reach Islam one needs to balance all these three parameters decently and well. Maintaining Islam upon death and it will be safe to say that one will be happily enjoying God's promised Paradise. And a steady and devoted service to God will also mean an inner peace or harmony within the soul which was the basic intention with my terminology "Peace and Prosperity" and even if you are exposed to further trials until your departure from this world, you will meet them with a feeling of harmony and peace with many beneficial blessings in form of both material and abstract provisions.

This can be equaled to lending God your time and life and in return you get back more than you originally invested even if regarded for the weaker in Faith as a waste of time and money.

The stronger in Faith will realize the importance of a good character and will sacrifice more of both time and money, but will amaze him/herself over how rich he/she has become both in harmonious and prosperous ways. We need to remember true wealth is not exactly about the money. One's accumulated wealth is worth absolutely zero at the time of death and I mean absolutely Z E R O. No need to even save the money excessively but rather be generous and kind. And, for some surprisingly, God will actually often reward you so even if you use money on others you might as well end up with more provisions later. It is this dependance upon our materialistic and illusive things that we possess we have to reduce. Best is to not even see them as your own things but rather something you received as a blessing from God and hold on to temporarily.

That was the end of this categorical talk and I hope to soon delve more intricately into what I have just discussed up until now. If you have any questions or something to add about what I wrote feel free to reply here in this thread.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 28, 2013, 04:08:48 PM
About being of an ultimately good character in Islam

I will mix in some signs that God's creed is about being a kind, goodly character who treats people without insult and arrogance. God's Islam is like Jesus preaches in the Gospel of Christianity's Bible which has been denied (by some). Poor behavior is not a desirable trait in Islam and will show that 1/3 of Message was not understood but in fact has deeper roots such as disbelief in Realm and honest Faith in God:

20:44 ?So say to him soft words, perhaps he will remember or be concerned.?

41:34 Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to
the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy,
may become your best friend.

52:26 They said: ?We used to be compassionate among our people.?

73:10 And be patient over what they say, and depart from them in a
good manner.

90:17 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort
one another to patience, and exhort one another to kindness.

Apart from these obvious verses from Qur'an one must consider what the word being good and righteous connotes, so with that in mind behavior is basically repeated about several times per chapter of the Message.

Basically from this verse is the foundation of Islam and its three criteria (as according to my diagram):

2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the
Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them (1) believes in God
and the (2) Last Day (which I refer to as Realm) and (3) does good works; they will have their
recompense with their Lord
, and there is no fear upon them, nor
will they grieve.

I.e:


Verily, God's creed is not much harder than these three easy steps yet we humans make it harder upon ourselves with lots of conjectural ideas and idiocy. Well, being righteous is hard enough let alone reassuring yourself that God is really real. Achieving these three steps is a great triumph and is a winning concept. No more needs to be accomplished to have Islam and salvation. Sorry if I make my posts like a dummies guide to God, but it is the easiest way to invite to God.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: GODsubmitter on November 28, 2013, 04:19:56 PM
Beautifully put!

But I should only add to all that an unshakeable trust in God, and faith, or knowledge, that He is the Only One God Alone, and there is none beside Him.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 28, 2013, 04:26:31 PM
Absolutely true, GODsubmitter. Complete certainty is a long term goal for the one who seeks the Truth.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Indelwyn on November 29, 2013, 03:14:44 PM
THANK YOU MAN OF FAITH!  :bravo:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 29, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
Further simplification of the Message is possible

Please see this:

Quote
2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, while (2) doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

Here in fact God narrows his criteria down to two, so one can in fact say that Belief in Realm can be integrated into Belief in God as a Faith part of the creed. This by no means indicate that my circular diagram is wrong, but it is fully possible to further split the Faith into two parts, (1) Faith and (2) Actions, proving my second circle in the diagram to be fully applicable. Praised be God for helping me out on this as I had not anticipated this coincidence. When we honestly believe in God seeking His Nearness and Guidance and accept His creed without associating partners with Him, the Realm part of Faith comes sort of automatically.

But we must remember that very few people ever get beyond the first threshold of monotheism as we can see in this verse from Qur'an:

Quote
12:106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.

And this is the reason for the above, i.e. most fall prey to this:

Quote
6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Here you have everything from "friends" and spouses to religious leaders who will also threaten you with eternal Hell and call you kufr/disbeliever when you do not follow their religion. This is something many people, thousands of people, fall prey to and they indoctrinate themselves by following the stream and readily accept their conjecture. Refer back to the circular diagram and (1) and (2) from this post and you see that the Message is not so hard after all. What your friends actually promise you is eternal Hell while ironically saying the opposite. Yes, the Message is this simple, exactly. If God says;

Quote
2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, while (2) doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

; this is what He means. There is no "hocus pocus" mentioned either here nor in any other parts of Qur'an except encouragement to meditate and "pray" for Nearness and Guidance as well as some things which are relatively obvious from anyone who is fond of you such as advising you not to intoxicate yourself/cloud your judgment by using drugs or into animosity and poverty through gambling. And apart from this (1) Mindfulness of God and Purification, He asks you to be (2) good.

In this way God is very kind and would be like a father to his son. God is very kind and clement. Apart from God's wise words it is quite obvious for the intelligent to see that substance (ab)use is most often leading to damage of the body and little gain. Qur'an is really a guidebook and mostly encouraged as a book to use as such, to give help what to ponder upon to realize that God must be really real.

I could of course hypothetically count among most, but Qur'an itself is a testament to that I speak of the Truth. There is no gain for me here and I ask for no money or fame. All I ask of you is to obey on (1) and (2) which will not lead you astray. And if you then slowly expand this into the criteria as mentioned in the circular diagram you have a winning concept. Unless you have done it already, pray God that you receive His Nearness and Guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers, and be steadfast and patient in His service. Submit to His will. (1) Actions and (2) Faith will lead you straight on the Path of Light. God did not make His creed complicated:

22:77 O you who * believe, kneel and prostrate and serve your Lord and do good that you may succeed.
22:78 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted? from before and in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over the people. So hold the (1) Mindfulness and contribute towards Purification and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.


Note: I rather interpret the word as-salat as Mindfulness than contact prayer which is Monotheist Translation's choice of words. This word has been changed above. An interpretation as "contact prayer' indicates that as-salat is a kind of ritual which immediately makes God's creed way harder whereas when you simply call it Mindfulness naturally means to keep God in your mind and as the same time contact/connection. God said to hold regular salat although then He means to frequently bond with Him which needs no ritual. However, we may choose to commence physical movements to show gratification but then that is personal. There is no reason and logic in that God would repeatedly throughout the book promise Paradise for those who do traditional "contact prayer", particularly when people are so divided with their own styles of service to God, but when you change it into Mindfulness or [insert better definition yourself] it makes better sense.

* This may indicate that there is a certain inclination towards voluntary physical movement, but this does not explain almost total absence of the popular discussion about details of physical prostration. Qur'an is not unclear, if there were rituals like "contact prayer" in traditional regard there would have been details about this in the book, but now since as-salat is Mindfulness of God and perhaps expanded into Connection with God during special sessions of meditation and thinking and free-speech, no such details are required from the book. It is verily fully detailed and if it is fully detailed details of a physical ritual would have been printed out if they existed. Mindless rituals is a trap for those who listen to the majority of people as seen previously in this post. This behavior is stemming from Paganism. To us it seems like God is a neanderthal god which does only trigger on certain key words like in an adventure video game. It does not impress God. Salat is Communication and open to interpretation for yourselves, either by my simply put "Mindfulness" or your own words for it. Start rambling to God and it is Salat.

Remember:


Related verses in the same context as the elaboration above are these:

Quote
2:111 And they said: ?None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes;? this is what they wish! Say: ?Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.?

Subsequent to the advent of Qur'an we could theoretically add Islam as per sectarian arguments here, perhaps under the heading "Muhammadan", if God would reveal another scripture. "None shall enter Paradise except those who are Jewish, Nazarenes or "Muslims;" this is what they wish!" could be a potential candidate for revision.

There is no creed to convert to as long as you fulfill (1) and (2), all else is as per conjecture. Becoming a man of Faith means carefully following God's intention with Qur'an to enlighten about Him to contemplate our existence and then:
Quote
"realize that God is really real"

And then we can start talking... Hope all 1 and 2 did not make you dizzy while reading. Being a good fellow human being is hard enough for most people, at least it is for me. It is a big challenge God brought forth to His test, but with His help I have managed to improve myself. Have you?

Be GOOD, do like GOD by following in His footsteps

Please heed my Message and see that I am not arrogant, and I try to be friendly and kind just like my role model... God. Who can hope for a better role model. God did not shy away from showing His nice attributes throughout Qur'an and He did it with all right. Why not imitate God who says this in His verses:

2:207 ... God is kind to His servants.

12:100 ... My Lord is Kind to whom He wills. He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise.

19:47 ... He (God) has been most kind to me

22:65 ... Indeed, God is Kind towards the people, Merciful.

85:14 And He is the Forgiver, the Most Kind.

In the name of God, why can we not do like God?

These people were acting in the image of the Lord:

52:26 They said: ?We (2) used to be compassionate among our people.?
52:27 ?God thus blessed us, and has spared us the agony of the fierce hot winds.?
52:28 ?We (1) used to implore Him before; He is the Kind, the Merciful.?


Do you think that only the followers of Issa/Jesus ought to be like this?:

57:27 ...And We sent Jesus, son of Mary, and We gave him the Gospel, and We ordained in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy...

Remember, submitting to God does not mean living like a slave to God but as someone who lives in His way. In that regard God is not an individual, any man, God is God, the One. It is difficult to submit concretely to a superpower who does not really have any need for you or your submission, but if you live in His ways you show that you belong to His creed Islam. God has no need for you as a slave, He can just say 'be' and anything is. But if you can imitate even the slightest of God's good image then you will be part of His Realm also after this test is over because God will become your friend and you are good and complete, and you have Islam.

Then your training will be complete, unless you fall to the Dark Side of the Force (Shaytaan)  :jedi:

Source (for quotes): Monotheist translation of Qur'an rev 2013

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 29, 2013, 04:33:09 PM
THANK YOU MAN OF FAITH!  :bravo:

Peace,

Thank God, dear sister. He inspires me and He has been good to me. I take no credit in this as it is His Message. I lend Him my time only, and my body and soul. God's pen does never run out of ink. Please see me as your brother in Faith and serve the One. I claim nothing spectacular for myself so please do not think I try to be someone other than a humble Servant of God.

Peace and Prosperity as God deems fit for me is enough for me. If I can help others it suffices me. My aim with this study is to show the simplicity of God's Message whereas mankind makes it difficult. They even added connotations to words which never existed and made whole books on those words while they mean no more than connection or mindfulness as I put it. Thus you see the grace of God. My previous post show that God did not want to make the creed difficult. If all those sectarian rules are true then God would contradict Himself, do you believe God would contradict Himself as a superpower? Following the 2 or 3 steps is no easy thing for most people anyway.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 30, 2013, 03:51:43 AM
Message or Book?

3:78 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Message so that you may think it is from the Message, while it is not from the Message, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

3:79 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Message and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather: ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Message, and of what you have studied.?


Note: This is from my hypothesis that kitab does not mean a physical book but rather message. With all kitab replaced into Message Qur'an makes much better sense in my opinion.

Few people that God sent brought with them physical books as far as I am concerned and this is a general statement in 3:79 and could illogically mean book. The contained books from within the Bible are not God's narrations and no books that God gave them. That it says al-kitab or the Message is because there is simply put just one Message and not several. And if you studied my very recent posts in this thread you will know what the Message contains. And a Jew or Christian can by God's terms not refer to a non-existent "book" which means he refers to the Message. Ahl al-kitab thus logically and basically means "Followers of the Message".

2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them (1)believes in God and the (2) Last Day (which I refer to as Realm) and (3) does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor
will they grieve.


2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, while (2) doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

In 2:62 you could add any group or people who argue that they are the ones that are correct about the Message, subsequently Islam as per traditionalists could be referred to here as well as long as they are monotheists. Yet they argue. But we need to remember:

12:106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.

So those brothers and perhaps sisters who say that God is a "bookless" divinity are not so wrong, His Knowledge is in the Message and not necessarily in the book(s). Besides who needs a book when they know criteria 1 and 2 except to seek inspiration on how to better purify themselves and come closer to God. Qur'an is a guide and manual, but the Message is more abstract and intricate than that.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 30, 2013, 04:20:52 AM
Descendants of Muhammad any reliable guides?

2:124 And Abraham was tested by words from His Lord, which he fulfilled. He said: ?I will make you a leader for the people.? He said: ?And also from my progeny?? He said: ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.?

Qur'an is very thorough here that being a descendant of someone is no guarantee that it is safe to follow them. Woe to those who without questioning the teachings of descendants of Muhammad and rely on hearsay that the Prophet anointed a successor to him on his deathbed. Besides it is something anyone could say that they are a descendant of Muhammad. And our physical body is just a shell we have during our brief stay here on Earth. Even if Muhammad truly anointed a successor on his deathbed according to hearsay then "My pledge will not encompass the wicked" comes into play anyway.

A Messenger or righteous person is not right for what he is but for what he does. And man cannot live by words alone...

God bless you

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 30, 2013, 05:31:34 AM
Messengers, Apostles or Missionaries?

God delivers clear warnings and Qur'an and people who act as Messengers and despite this people stubbornly adhere to their leaders and learned ones who are full of conjecture and "extra-religious" information:

33:66 On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: (2) ?Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger?
33:67 And they will say: ?Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path.?


A person who preaches the Message is basically a Messenger. Obedience to what has been told is voluntary, but by studying my previous posts in this thread would only reveal that I speak of the Truth and that the Message is so dead-simple. And it is easy to preach the Message because it contains of so few steps yet you risk being persecuted for doing so.

Obey does obviously not mean to obey under any condition, but when someone tells the clear Message of God then it is wise to "obey" with the use of a word with a cold connotation. I would rather use the word "listen to" or "pay attention" or "heed the words".

Qur'an contains examples of what is obedience in past times:

26:176 The people of the Sycamore disbelieved the messengers.
26:177 For Shu?ayb said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
26:178 ?I am to you a trustworthy messenger.?
26:179 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
26:180 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:181 ?Give full measure and do not be of those who cause losses.?
26:182 ?And weigh with the balance that is straight.?
26:183 ?And do not defraud the people of their belongings, and do not venture into the land corrupting.?
26:184 ?And (1) be aware of the One who has created you and the generations of old.?


It is a cutout from dialogues that happened in the past and the Messenger basically told the people to be good and mindful of God. No more or less is the purpose of the Messenger; to deliver the simple yet important Message of God.

Here follows the narration of Lot:

26:160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
26:161 For their brother Lot said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
26:162 ?I am to you a trustworthy messenger.?
26:163 (1) ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
26:164 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:165 ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26:166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!?
*

* This people had put into system to prefer men over women. This is the disputable story to see that God condemns homosexuality. This is not the discussion in this thread so please do not raise a dialogue on this matter here.

And Saleh:

26:141 Thamud denied the messengers.
26:142 For their brother Saleh said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
26:143 ?I am to you a clear messenger.?
26:144 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
26:145 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:146 ?Will you be left secure in that which you have here??
26:147 ?In gardens and springs.?
26:148 ?And green crops and palm trees laden with fruit.?
26:149 ?And you carve homes out of the mountains with great skill??
26:150  ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
26:151 ?And do not obey the command of the carefree.?
26:152 ?The ones who corrupt in the land and are not reformers.?


Hud's story:

26:123 ?Aad denied the messengers.
26:124 For their brother Hud said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
26:125 ?I am to you a clear messenger.?
26:126 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
26:127 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:128 ?Do you build on every high place a symbol, for the sake of vanity!?
26:129 ?And you take for yourselves strongholds, perhaps you will live forever??
26:130 ?And if you attack, you strike ruthlessly??
26:131 ?So (1) be aware of God and obey me.?
26:132 ?And (1) be aware of the One who provided you with what you know.?
26:133 ?He provided you with livestock and sons.?
26:134 ?And gardens and springs.?
26:135 ?I fear for you the retribution of a great day?


By the name of God, can you not understand what the Message is?

Be mindful of GOD and work towards your purification, and work righteousness.

Of course history repeats itself as it always has and people continue to adhere to their learned ones and leaders, no matter living or dead ones. And people complicate the Message by adding lots of things that are irrelevant. And to defend their practices they turn aggressive and hostile, further demolishing their work on criteria (2).

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on November 30, 2013, 10:15:45 AM
Do the atheists not reason like this?

Have you never heard your fellow humans around you utter this in either written or verbal form?:

6:25 And from them are those who listen to you; and We have made covers over their hearts to prevent them from understanding it, and a deafness in their ears; and if they see every sign they will not believe; even when they come to you they argue, those who reject say: ?This is nothing except fictional tales of old!?
6:26 (2) And they prohibit others from it, and keep away themselves from it; but they will only destroy themselves, yet they do not notice.
6:27 And if you could see when they are standing over the Fire, they say: ?If only we could be sent back, we would not deny the revelations of our Lord, and we would be believers!?
6:28 No, it is merely what they have been concealing that has now become evident to them; and if they were sent back they would return again to what they were prohibited from, they are but liars!
6:29 And they had said: ?There is only this worldly life, and we will not be resurrected!?
6:30 And if you could see them when they are standing at their Lord; He said: ?Is this not the truth?? They said: ?Yes, by our Lord,? He said: ?Then taste the retribution for what you have rejected.?
6:31 (1) Losers are those who have denied their meeting with God; until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then they say: ?We deeply regret that which we have wasted in it,? and they will carry their burdens on their backs; miserable indeed is their burden.
6:32 And the worldly life is nothing more than play and distraction, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are (2) righteous. Do you not comprehend?
6:33 We know that you are saddened by what they say; they are not rejecting you, but it is the revelations of God which the wicked disregard.


"This is nothing except fictional tales of old!" is an answer I got on an Islamic blog that I wrote on a couple of years ago. I felt saddened by this disbelief and that they cannot sense the Lord around them. How shocked this person will be when they stand in the courtroom with God on the Judgment Day. They are completely unaware and denying, and think that one is a neanderthal human for believing in God. God is adapting to these modern ages, but people think everything is just imagination from the past. And the traditionalists think we have to live in the Middle Ages to be able to follow the creed of God. Many people live in complete denial of meeting the Lord. And they belittle the people who believe and even write articles that claim that people who believe have less intelligence (which however is true for the hypocrites). The hypocrites keep people away from God. Ironically, Believers have two resistances, those who think they believe and force people to believe in their corrupted ways they do and the ones that do not believe at all and think they make the Believers a service by preventing them from their Faith.

The hypocrites express themselves somewhat like this:

2:111 And they said: ?None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish or Nazarenes (or "Muslim");? this is what they wish! Say: ?Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.?

Nowadays, 1400 years after the advent of Qur'an Muslims could be added to this verse as well as seen within my parenthesis. They say that you have to convert to their Faith even if Islam is nothing you convert to, it is something you are or not. They call "their" prophets infallible and God knows what, while we know that there was no Prophet or Messenger without sin, except perhaps the special case of Jesus although he was surely a trap for those with a disease within their heart. Jesus is a good sign of how good a person can be, if they put their mind to it. But God is One and not three. The wise heed their Message and strengthen their Faith in God. The function of the Messenger is to invite to God by preaching the Message and if one becomes a Believer and do not fall to the trap of idolatry then this is a big success. Why do we humans always need idols? Needing lords or idols shows that you cannot form your own life and successfully bond with God.

People are very curious of why we are here and the answer is right in front of their eyes. If there is no purpose of existing one would not exist.

List of errors listed which will lead to failure (for atheists):
God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Indelwyn on December 02, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
Enjoying this post very much. Is there more?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 02, 2013, 06:24:48 PM
Be good, one of two (only) criteria

2:82 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

It sounds pretty simple, but of course it is not as simple as one may think when this is presented here, not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others, and thus lose focus on the real mission of Islam: To purify our souls into betterment and become good beings, except the obvious discovery and realization that God exists which is why the Lord spends a substantial part of the book explaining how illogical it is not to believe in God.

It is surely amazing that mankind has always complicated things with lots of things in Islam while the Message has been so, sooo 'freaking' simple that anyone able to think clearly can understand and follow the creed. It sure is the (2) behavior and the deeds that are measured and can come in a grand variety compared to (1) Faith that is straight-forward since God is One, nothing else to argue about, the ultimate power of the Universe. And God wants people who have developed personalities and not Muhammad copies or Jesus copies but our own honest selves that can lead their own lives and stand on their own feet although relying on God and seeing Him as their superior.

Verse worthy of repetition:

2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, (2) WHILE doing GOOD, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

How can I emphasize more on good in this verse and it is also echoed in other verses as presented and involved in other contexts of Islam too.

For those who still doubt my preachings I have this verse:

2:148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

This verse is unfortunately in the context of those verses which point at the disputable topic of Qiblah which I consider meaning spiritual focus and not a physical direction where people should pray towards but the creed itself is the Qiblah with its community ways, which might mean that cultural belongings is not entirely wrong and the identity and certain ways to be righteous can differ between them. I possess no further Knowledge to discuss any in depth on this topic other than I am sure it means the slight differences in spiritual views such as lighting candles in spiritual moments or any other ways as long as it does not derail into idolatry. That was my comments on Qiblah, but we can all debate what it means and it ought not to be overly important as you know by now in my thread now what Islam is about. It is a one-two creed.

Islam not more than simply balancing good vs. evil

It feels relatively fantastic that Islam is really not much more than good vs. evil, and rely on good which comes from God and get to know your Creator as well as bond with Him. And those who lack the intelligence to heed the clear signs of the Lord will eventually meet their doom. Some people simply cannot believe no matter what you do and are not working towards the good, means in God's eyes that you are not really believing either since you do not understand the Message, which Qur'an is part of, and obviously losing out on the minimum amount of Knowledge and Wisdom required in Islam as presented before in this thread and needs to be balanced together with the remaining parts. It is a big failure not to see that goodness is the fundamental part of Islam as seen in recent posts, and then that is not an understatement. Was that not the main point of the Gospel?

2:195 And spend in the cause of God, but do not throw your resources to disaster. And do good, for God LOVES those who do good.

Simply put, God points out clearly that goodness is something that He loves and what other conclusion does the wise draw from that?

Let us continue with this verse revealed by God many centuries ago:

2:277 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and keep their Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

Note: Contact prayer was changed into my understanding of Mindfulness. While it still may not be entirely accurate I believe that it is a much better and more accurate choice than contact prayer. I will try to meditate and seek more answers for the case of as-salat at some time soon, but not now although by looking at the root of that disputed word cannot mean more than the bonding and connection to God whereas I chose Mindfulness as my choice to describe the phenomenon in English while it is likely as translating Islam into English.

Here it continues with a verse which advocates good deeds in a manner that hints at it as the foundation of the whole Faith:

3:104 And let there be a nation from among you who (2) calls towards goodness, and (2) orders kindness, and prohibits vice. And these are the successful ones.

Dear brothers and sister; what other conclusion can you draw of Islam than a religion that wishes to establish Peace and Prosperity as ultimate aim?:

* 3:113 They are not all the same, from the followers of the Message are a nation that is upright; they recite the revelations of God during the night hours and they prostrate.
3:114 They (1) believe in God and the (3) Last Day (Realm) and order kindness and prohibit vice, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the good doers.
3:115 And what they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the righteous.


If you "hasten" in goodness; how can you think that an benevolent God will give you lots of weird rites to distract you?

* Indicates that they are not necessarily "Muslims" by "label", but those who heed the Message either from the past, present or the future.

For those who love giving back in revenge and cannot easily get back to civil behavior:

3:133 And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous.
3:134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.


4:36 And (1) serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and (2) do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. God does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

"Treat thy neighbor as thyself" was a wise old saying allegedly originating from past Messengers. This above verse practically says the same. We must remember that charity does not always have to just mean cash up front. A smile and physical service towards someone can be worth just as much as money, if not more. The verse indicates that by doing the elements of it practically means that you do the service of God, another inclination that Islam is about harmony and justice among the people.

4:57 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.

4:122 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?
* 4:123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the followers of the Message desire. Whoever works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
4:124 And whoever (2) works good, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
4:125 And who is better in the system than the one who (1) submits himself to God, and he is a (2) good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.


* The sectarians from from the revelations that came with Muhammad and the ones who today worship Jesus as God's son; to decide or the Jews. Face it, my dear brothers and sisters, the religious practices have no real value at all except follow the one-two way of serving God as I advocate in my posts. And it is primarily for what evil you did which will lead you towards doom. God is so very clear that he repeats the same phrase practically once before this verse and then after it with emphasis on belief and good deeds, and worth mentioning repeats the same theme in a subsequent verse again.

4:173 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too (-) proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.
* 4:174 O people, proof has come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a guiding light.
4:175 As for those who (1) believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.


* Yes. Surely the Message is very clear in Qur'an. IF Hold fast to God THEN will guide them to Himself on a straight path. Note that Qur'an is not required although it surely was sent down as an extra mercy from the Lord as a guide with clear guidelines. What will help you is to translate kitab as Message or Knowledge instead of physical book and you will see more clear into the Message. Everything that is bound to physical objects in this world is a risk of idolatry. The Message is bookless and jumped from people to people even though the majority failed to heed the Truth in it.

* 5:6 O you who believe, if you rise to keep your Mindfulness, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
5:7 And remember the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said: ?We hear and obey,? and be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.
5:8 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and (1) be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.
5:9 God has promised those who (1) believe and (2) do good works that they will have forgiveness and a great recompense.


* It is purely for the spiritual reasons that you do this and it is keeping a good hygiene. Feel how fresh you feel when you sense the "magical" water that God created touch your gentle skin. When you are clean it is easier to focus and keep the connection to God as it will be no distraction. The soil I suppose it must be clean sand which can be rubbed against the skin to remove the worst dirt. Have you never tried to clean your shoes against the ground? Obviously it is a last solution if you feel impure. Anyway, if it accomplishes nothing what is worth most is righteousness and goodness (2).

One of the verses which tries to convey the message that practically anyone who fulfills these criteria have a chance of Heaven:

5:69 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, (* and the "Muslims"), whoever of them (1) believes in God and the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

* Muslims here is not in the original script but would have been there in a revelation from the Lord if He would reveal one today, probably not with Muslim term but rather Muhammadan or similar.

Sorry that I repeat the same content in a long post, but I wanted to show you how repeated this content is in Qur'an and yet people even here on the forum argue about the fundamentals of Islam. Hope you persevere in reading this post as I hope you may change your approach to the Message and the Great Reading, God willing, after this.

Warnings about complicating the creed and traps

5:87 O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

Have not the sects transgressed on this exhortation not to forbid lawful things and to aggress from right to left? There is no "love thy neighbor as thyself".

5:93 There is no sin upon those who (1) believe and (2) do good works for what they eat if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

Eat in the name of God.

* 5:100 Say: ?The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you.? So (1) be aware of God, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.

Trap, trap, trap. One may be fooled to commit evil because the crowd already does it. Behavior is contagious.

6:48 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever (1) believes, and (2) does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.

There is no Islam, only islam, so to say (even if it is easier to identify it as Islam, I use Islam anyways). "If I (3) follow the Message, (1) believe and (2) do good I am free from fear or worries about the future."

6:151 Say: ?Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should (-1) not set up anything with Him - and (2) do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
6:152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
6:153 And this is My path, a straight one. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?


Look at this and see that the Message was detailed already on Musa/Moses' time. The Message is: "Believe in God and do what is right."

6:154 Then We gave Moses (3) the Message, to complete for those who (2) do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may (1) believe in the meeting of their Lord.

The often so-called Mosaic Law is from here and you surely know what it contains, for example, you should not kill and equivalent punishment, i.e eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, however Jesus taught that it is better to forgive than to punish. Much more righteous! Forget "religions" and join God's creed of "i"slam right away with two easy steps to focus on.

6:155 And this is a (3) Message that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
6:156 Lest you say: ?The Message was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!?


6:159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.

This is what the majority of people on Earth have done sadly enough instead of uniting under the very same Message and instead they follow only conjecture and invented ideas which distract them from the true service of God. Any person from any "religion" can serve and revere the Lord together by two easy steps, (1) reverence and glorification, and (2) "treating the other neighbor as thyself". God's verse does not mean that you have to freeze them out, but their strange practices and service of God is what He means that you shall not participate in.

6:160 Whoever comes with a (2) good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.

Minor sins are not so bad as long as your are mindful of them and repent your deeds. Sometimes it is difficult to get away from certain behavior (perhaps homosexuality?), but we shall always remember that one who sins shall surely be forgiven lesser sins with a bunch-load of (2) good and beautiful deeds as long as he keeps away from the major sins such as idolatry which is the backbone of Islam (1).

6:162 Say: (1) ?My Mindfulness, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
6:163 ?He has NO partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?


Indeed, He has no partner and the Messenger/Apostle/Missionary is only a deliverer of good news as well as a warner. Submit to the Lord of the Universe and give up on idolatry. The Prophet or Messenger or whatever Message-bearer from God has no importance compared to the Master of the Universe.

7:2 A (3) MESSAGE that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that (2) you may warn with it; and a (1) reminder to the believers.
7:3 (2,3) Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!


God is very thorough in The Great Reading and people have the Truth right in front of their very eyes, but most are deaf and blind and their mind is diseased and locked from taking in the Truth.

7:32 Say: ?Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?? Say: ?They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection.? It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

"Where is my music? Where is my movie entertainment? Where is my (uncensored) Internet?" In certain locales the true Believers suffer because of the imbeciles. That is the day for millions of Iranians where I lived for a few years.

Say: ?My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know.?

Always the sexuality is used as an aggression point for immorality as something to make an abomination while it means immoral as in deceive your wife or fool someone of money and many of the things The Great Reading goes through already up until this point. The funny thing is that traditionalists contradict the same verse with ideas and conjecture they have.

By the name of God; I should not even have to explain all this for you, but the Lord is Merciful, Most Kind. Do you not see that I wish to help you?

7:188 Say: ?I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?

Muhammad was no superman, see? He was just an ordinary man who (1) believed and (2) did good and (3) believed the Message of old. Otherwise it is just a "say" command which anyone can say who feel hit by the urge to express the line. God blessed him because of this and he was a blessed man who excelled in this life and was promoted to Messenger/Apostle/Missionary and has a special link to God and at the same time part of God's plot.

Back to the good news for those who believe

7:42 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good; We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear; those are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

Enough evidence already, or?

8:37 This is so that God will distinguish the bad from the good, and so that the bad will be gathered together into one heap then He will cast it all into Hell. These are the losers.

This life is just a test that you may show that you qualify for God's Kingdom which Jesus preached about and all other Messengers every came to the face of the Earth.

9:71 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They (2) order good and prohibit vice, and they keep their (1) Mindfulness, and they contribute towards Purification and they (1,2,3) obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise.


Obey as in follow the very extremely simple Message of Islam and we know that the Messenger is only to make the reverent remind themselves of the Message and warn the Disbelievers.

10:9 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their Faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.

My circular diagram is confirmed in this verse. When you follow (1) and (2), your Lord will guide you and it does not require The Great Reading necessarily even if it is a big bonus for the Reverent.

10:26 For (2) those who do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

Following the actions of the creed leads you far on the path.

11:23 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.

11:114 And hold the Mindfulness at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. (2) The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
11:115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.


Being mindful of God all around the clock and doing good will remove the sins eventually when you get closer and closer to God through Nearness and Guidance.

12:56 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the good doers.
12:57 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who believe and are aware.


Something that happened to Joseph could also happen to anyone of us if we had the same caliber as these past righteous people.

13:29 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.

14:23 And those who (1) believed and (2) did good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

Final verses narrated to you (promise!)

16:30 And it was said to those who were righteous: ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said: (2) ?All goodness.? For those who have done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.
16:31 Gardens of delight; which they will enter, with rivers flowing beneath them, in it they will have what they wish. It is such that God rewards the righteous.
16:32 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, while they had been good, they will say: ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?


Such a friendly reception the righteous will get once they leave this world. Actions lead to Peace and Prosperity.

Source: Verses taken from Monotheist Qur'an (rev. 2013) with certain minor modifications to the text
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on December 02, 2013, 09:49:32 PM
Excellent post. Believing as you say is a very difficult thing and is not easy at all. There's a reason why God differentiates between submitters and believers (or muslim and mumin if we use the Arabic). Can't remember the versenumber but some Arabs had said they believe. Yet belief hadn't entered their hearts yet, they had only submitted. Belief takes a lot of time and work but I think all of us strive to the mumin direction :).

:peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
Peace sushi1992,

49:14 The Nomads said: ?We believe.? Say: ?You have not believed; but you should say: ?We have submitted?, for belief has not yet entered into your hearts.? If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
49:15 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 01:53:34 PM
Be good, one of two (only) criteria

2:82 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

It sounds pretty simple, but of course it is not as simple as one may think when this is presented here, not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others, and thus lose focus on the real mission of Islam: To purify our souls into betterment and become good beings, except the obvious discovery and realization that God exists which is why the Lord spends a substantial part of the book explaining how illogical it is not to believe in God.

It is surely amazing that mankind has always complicated things with lots of things in Islam while the Message has been so, sooo 'freaking' simple that anyone able to think clearly can understand and follow the creed. It sure is the (2) behavior and the deeds that are measured and can come in a grand variety compared to (1) Faith that is straight-forward since God is One, nothing else to argue about, the ultimate power of the Universe. And God wants people who have developed personalities and not Muhammad copies or Jesus copies but our own honest selves that can lead their own lives and stand on their own feet although relying on God and seeing Him as their superior.

Verse worthy of repetition:

2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, (2) WHILE doing GOOD, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

How can I emphasize more on good in this verse and it is also echoed in other verses as presented and involved in other contexts of Islam too.

For those who still doubt my preachings I have this verse:

2:148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

This verse is unfortunately in the context of those verses which point at the disputable topic of Qiblah which I consider meaning spiritual focus and not a physical direction where people should pray towards but the creed itself is the Qiblah with its community ways, which might mean that cultural belongings is not entirely wrong and the identity and certain ways to be righteous can differ between them. I possess no further Knowledge to discuss any in depth on this topic other than I am sure it means the slight differences in spiritual views such as lighting candles in spiritual moments or any other ways as long as it does not derail into idolatry. That was my comments on Qiblah, but we can all debate what it means and it ought not to be overly important as you know by now in my thread now what Islam is about. It is a one-two creed.

Islam not more than simply balancing good vs. evil

It feels relatively fantastic that Islam is really not much more than good vs. evil, and rely on good which comes from God and get to know your Creator as well as bond with Him. And those who lack the intelligence to heed the clear signs of the Lord will eventually meet their doom. Some people simply cannot believe no matter what you do and are not working towards the good, means in God's eyes that you are not really believing either since you do not understand the Message, which Qur'an is part of, and obviously losing out on the minimum amount of Knowledge and Wisdom required in Islam as presented before in this thread and needs to be balanced together with the remaining parts. It is a big failure not to see that goodness is the fundamental part of Islam as seen in recent posts, and then that is not an understatement. Was that not the main point of the Gospel?

2:195 And spend in the cause of God, but do not throw your resources to disaster. And do good, for God LOVES those who do good.

Simply put, God points out clearly that goodness is something that He loves and what other conclusion does the wise draw from that?

Let us continue with this verse revealed by God many centuries ago:

2:277 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and keep their Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

Note: Contact prayer was changed into my understanding of Mindfulness. While it still may not be entirely accurate I believe that it is a much better and more accurate choice than contact prayer. I will try to meditate and seek more answers for the case of as-salat at some time soon, but not now although by looking at the root of that disputed word cannot mean more than the bonding and connection to God whereas I chose Mindfulness as my choice to describe the phenomenon in English while it is likely as translating Islam into English.

Here it continues with a verse which advocates good deeds in a manner that hints at it as the foundation of the whole Faith:

3:104 And let there be a nation from among you who (2) calls towards goodness, and (2) orders kindness, and prohibits vice. And these are the successful ones.

Dear brothers and sister; what other conclusion can you draw of Islam than a religion that wishes to establish Peace and Prosperity as ultimate aim?:

* 3:113 They are not all the same, from the followers of the Message are a nation that is upright; they recite the revelations of God during the night hours and they prostrate.
3:114 They (1) believe in God and the (3) Last Day (Realm) and order kindness and prohibit vice, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the good doers.
3:115 And what they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the righteous.


If you "hasten" in goodness; how can you think that an benevolent God will give you lots of weird rites to distract you?

* Indicates that they are not necessarily "Muslims" by "label", but those who heed the Message either from the past, present or the future.

For those who love giving back in revenge and cannot easily get back to civil behavior:

3:133 And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous.
3:134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.


4:36 And (1) serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and (2) do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. God does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

"Treat thy neighbor as thyself" was a wise old saying allegedly originating from past Messengers. This above verse practically says the same. We must remember that charity does not always have to just mean cash up front. A smile and physical service towards someone can be worth just as much as money, if not more. The verse indicates that by doing the elements of it practically means that you do the service of God, another inclination that Islam is about harmony and justice among the people.

4:57 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.

4:122 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?
* 4:123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the followers of the Message desire. Whoever works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
4:124 And whoever (2) works good, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
4:125 And who is better in the system than the one who (1) submits himself to God, and he is a (2) good doer, and he follows the creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.


* The sectarians from from the revelations that came with Muhammad and the ones who today worship Jesus as God's son; to decide or the Jews. Face it, my dear brothers and sisters, the religious practices have no real value at all except follow the one-two way of serving God as I advocate in my posts. And it is primarily for what evil you did which will lead you towards doom. God is so very clear that he repeats the same phrase practically once before this verse and then after it with emphasis on belief and good deeds, and worth mentioning repeats the same theme in a subsequent verse again.

4:173 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too (-) proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.
* 4:174 O people, proof has come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a guiding light.
4:175 As for those who (1) believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.


* Yes. Surely the Message is very clear in Qur'an. IF Hold fast to God THEN will guide them to Himself on a straight path. Note that Qur'an is not required although it surely was sent down as an extra mercy from the Lord as a guide with clear guidelines. What will help you is to translate kitab as Message or Knowledge instead of physical book and you will see more clear into the Message. Everything that is bound to physical objects in this world is a risk of idolatry. The Message is bookless and jumped from people to people even though the majority failed to heed the Truth in it.

* 5:6 O you who believe, if you rise to keep your Mindfulness, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.
5:7 And remember the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said: ?We hear and obey,? and be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.
5:8 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and (1) be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.
5:9 God has promised those who (1) believe and (2) do good works that they will have forgiveness and a great recompense.


* It is purely for the spiritual reasons that you do this and it is keeping a good hygiene. Feel how fresh you feel when you sense the "magical" water that God created touch your gentle skin. When you are clean it is easier to focus and keep the connection to God as it will be no distraction. The soil I suppose it must be clean sand which can be rubbed against the skin to remove the worst dirt. Have you never tried to clean your shoes against the ground? Obviously it is a last solution if you feel impure. Anyway, if it accomplishes nothing what is worth most is righteousness and goodness (2).

One of the verses which tries to convey the message that practically anyone who fulfills these criteria have a chance of Heaven:

5:69 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, (* and the "Muslims"), whoever of them (1) believes in God and the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

* Muslims here is not in the original script but would have been there in a revelation from the Lord if He would reveal one today, probably not with Muslim term but rather Muhammadan or similar.

Sorry that I repeat the same content in a long post, but I wanted to show you how repeated this content is in Qur'an and yet people even here on the forum argue about the fundamentals of Islam. Hope you persevere in reading this post as I hope you may change your approach to the Message and the Great Reading, God willing, after this.

Warnings about complicating the creed and traps

5:87 O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

Have not the sects transgressed on this exhortation not to forbid lawful things and to aggress from right to left? There is no "love thy neighbor as thyself".

5:93 There is no sin upon those who (1) believe and (2) do good works for what they eat if they are aware and believe and do good works, then they are aware and believe, then they are aware and do good; God loves the good doers.

Eat in the name of God.

* 5:100 Say: ?The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you.? So (1) be aware of God, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.

Trap, trap, trap. One may be fooled to commit evil because the crowd already does it. Behavior is contagious.

6:48 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever (1) believes, and (2) does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.

There is no Islam, only islam, so to say (even if it is easier to identify it as Islam, I use Islam anyways). "If I (3) follow the Message, (1) believe and (2) do good I am free from fear or worries about the future."

6:151 Say: ?Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: that you should (-1) not set up anything with Him - and (2) do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
6:152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
6:153 And this is My path, a straight one. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?


Look at this and see that the Message was detailed already on Musa/Moses' time. The Message is: "Believe in God and do what is right."

6:154 Then We gave Moses (3) the Message, to complete for those who (2) do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may (1) believe in the meeting of their Lord.

The often so-called Mosaic Law is from here and you surely know what it contains, for example, you should not kill and equivalent punishment, i.e eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, however Jesus taught that it is better to forgive than to punish. Much more righteous! Forget "religions" and join God's creed of "i"slam right away with two easy steps to focus on.

6:155 And this is a (3) Message that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
6:156 Lest you say: ?The Message was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!?


6:159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.

This is what the majority of people on Earth have done sadly enough instead of uniting under the very same Message and instead they follow only conjecture and invented ideas which distract them from the true service of God. Any person from any "religion" can serve and revere the Lord together by two easy steps, (1) reverence and glorification, and (2) "treating the other neighbor as thyself". God's verse does not mean that you have to freeze them out, but their strange practices and service of God is what He means that you shall not participate in.

6:160 Whoever comes with a (2) good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.

Minor sins are not so bad as long as your are mindful of them and repent your deeds. Sometimes it is difficult to get away from certain behavior (perhaps homosexuality?), but we shall always remember that one who sins shall surely be forgiven lesser sins with a bunch-load of (2) good and beautiful deeds as long as he keeps away from the major sins such as idolatry which is the backbone of Islam (1).

6:162 Say: (1) ?My Mindfulness, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
6:163 ?He has NO partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?


Indeed, He has no partner and the Messenger/Apostle/Missionary is only a deliverer of good news as well as a warner. Submit to the Lord of the Universe and give up on idolatry. The Prophet or Messenger or whatever Message-bearer from God has no importance compared to the Master of the Universe.

7:2 A (3) MESSAGE that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that (2) you may warn with it; and a (1) reminder to the believers.
7:3 (2,3) Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!


God is very thorough in The Great Reading and people have the Truth right in front of their very eyes, but most are deaf and blind and their mind is diseased and locked from taking in the Truth.

7:32 Say: ?Who has made unlawful the nice things that God has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?? Say: ?They are meant for those who believe during this worldly life, and they will be exclusive for them on the Day of Resurrection.? It is such that We explain the revelations for those who know.

"Where is my music? Where is my movie entertainment? Where is my (uncensored) Internet?" In certain locales the true Believers suffer because of the imbeciles. That is the day for millions of Iranians where I lived for a few years.

Say: ?My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know.?

Always the sexuality is used as an aggression point for immorality as something to make an abomination while it means immoral as in deceive your wife or fool someone of money and many of the things The Great Reading goes through already up until this point. The funny thing is that traditionalists contradict the same verse with ideas and conjecture they have.

By the name of God; I should not even have to explain all this for you, but the Lord is Merciful, Most Kind. Do you not see that I wish to help you?

7:188 Say: ?I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?

Muhammad was no superman, see? He was just an ordinary man who (1) believed and (2) did good and (3) believed the Message of old. Otherwise it is just a "say" command which anyone can say who feel hit by the urge to express the line. God blessed him because of this and he was a blessed man who excelled in this life and was promoted to Messenger/Apostle/Missionary and has a special link to God and at the same time part of God's plot.

Back to the good news for those who believe

7:42 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good; We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear; those are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

Enough evidence already, or?

8:37 This is so that God will distinguish the bad from the good, and so that the bad will be gathered together into one heap then He will cast it all into Hell. These are the losers.

This life is just a test that you may show that you qualify for God's Kingdom which Jesus preached about and all other Messengers every came to the face of the Earth.

9:71 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another. They (2) order good and prohibit vice, and they keep their (1) Mindfulness, and they contribute towards Purification and they (1,2,3) obey God and His messenger. God will have mercy on them; God is Noble, Wise.


Obey as in follow the very extremely simple Message of Islam and we know that the Messenger is only to make the reverent remind themselves of the Message and warn the Disbelievers.

10:9 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their Faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.

My circular diagram is confirmed in this verse. When you follow (1) and (2), your Lord will guide you and it does not require The Great Reading necessarily even if it is a big bonus for the Reverent.

10:26 For (2) those who do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.

Following the actions of the creed leads you far on the path.

11:23 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.

11:114 And hold the Mindfulness at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. (2) The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
11:115 And be patient, for God does not waste the reward of the good doers.


Being mindful of God all around the clock and doing good will remove the sins eventually when you get closer and closer to God through Nearness and Guidance.

12:56 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the good doers.
12:57 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who believe and are aware.


Something that happened to Joseph could also happen to anyone of us if we had the same caliber as these past righteous people.

13:29 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.

14:23 And those who (1) believed and (2) did good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

Final verses narrated to you (promise!)

16:30 And it was said to those who were righteous: ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said: (2) ?All goodness.? For those who have done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.
16:31 Gardens of delight; which they will enter, with rivers flowing beneath them, in it they will have what they wish. It is such that God rewards the righteous.
16:32 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, while they had been good, they will say: ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?


Such a friendly reception the righteous will get once they leave this world. Actions lead to Peace and Prosperity.

Source: Verses taken from Monotheist Qur'an (rev. 2013) with certain minor modifications to the text

This is how quickly "Quran only" fall from grace  . . . this person has relied on someone else's translation - someone who [in general terms] agrees with him. Likely reason? He is not able to understand much Arabic.

Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 02:11:38 PM
Peace,

Despite using this translation I reach the same conclusion with other translations too. I could have used Sahih International and reached exactly the same conclusions. You do not think I have not thoroughly studied this? And would you think that all those translators could not accurately translate the original Arabic?

Of course it is easy for someone to use the Arabic deficiency argument to claim that one cannot understand the Message. I have good friends who read and often help explain the Arabic. Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message. But I am not entirely zeroed in Arabic, I know some basics.

You understand Arabic but you have no access to the Message anyhow so who has any real understanding anyways?

Quote
Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!

Condemns what? EDIT: It is depending on someone's translation of God's words and not on something that God did not originally write. The source is from God and what I propagated against is when you use conjecture from other sources and complicate the religion whereas God said He does not want to cause us hardship. So many translations cannot be wrong about it and also Sahih International says basically the same.

This is how quickly "Quran only" fall from grace  . . . this person has relied on someone else's translation - someone who [in general terms] agrees with him. Likely reason? He is not able to understand much Arabic.

Yet these are the points which in the above post he condemns in others. Ironic!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 02:35:52 PM
Quote
Despite using this translation I reach the same conclusion with other translations too. I could have used Sahih International and reached exactly the same conclusions. You do not think I have not thoroughly studied this? And would you think that all those translators could not accurately translate the original Arabic?

I do think you have NOT thoroughly studied this. You have missed the point . . . which is about reliance on people. . . . something you are doing and you have condemned in others. . .

Also . . . you did not use Sahih International - you chose the one which goes with your beliefs. I mean I would NEVER EVER use that particular translation.

- -

Quote
Of course it is easy for someone to use the Arabic deficiency argument to claim that one cannot understand the Message. I have good friends who read and often help explain the Arabic. Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message. But I am not entirely zeroed in Arabic, I know some basics.

Looking at the rhetoric coming from you . . . I would think it would be priority for you to learn Arabic. . .

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Apart from deficiency God gladly helps in understanding the Message.

Incorrect. This is NOT how it works . . .if you cannot be bothered to learn the language and then claim this . . . I find that sheer nonsense.

- -

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You understand Arabic but you have no access to the Message anyhow so who has any real understanding anyways?

I do not know what this means.

- -

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Condemns what?

"not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others"

Just one example of your past quote. . . "Quran only" are quick to say this . . . yet are guilty of the exact same crime. Ironic.

- -


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 02:46:53 PM
Peace,

Quote
Also . . . you did not use Sahih International - you chose the one which goes with your beliefs. I mean I would NEVER EVER use that particular translation.

No I did not use Sahih International, but it would come to the same point regardless.

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Looking at the rhetoric coming from you . . . I would think it would be priority for you to learn Arabic. . .

My choice.

Quote
Incorrect. This is NOT how it works . . .if you cannot be bothered to learn the language and then claim this . . . I find that sheer nonsense.

Indeed this is how it works. How do you think the people who did not have access to "the Recitation" were righteous and guided? It is arrogance to think that Arabic would be required to know the Message and that one people is chosen at the exclusion of all other people.

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I do not know what this means.

It means understanding the Message. You surely ought to know what the Message is if you have read the book.

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"not to add that most people follow conjecture and listen to religious leaders and others"

Not so much that if you follow what the book says no matter if it is a good translation or not. I could reach practically the same conclusion using a translation like Sahih International.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 02:59:31 PM
Anyways, can I have my Faith in peace now? I am not writing on this thread to argue with those who do not appreciate what I have written. You are welcome to have your "Sunny" ideology and I will have mine. We can wait and see about the Truth later on.

If there is a way I follow it is the way of God, strict monotheism. I believe in God and I work hard to be a good person. And as you might have seen in this thread I only follow three parameters, Faith in God, that I will be held responsible for my deeds and that I should do good deeds. If you wish to believe in more rules in your creed feel free to do it but I will keep it to this. It is fair and hard enough for me and I do not want to make it any more complicated. That is the Message, I have heeded the Message and I would heed it again and again until I die.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 03:02:55 PM
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No I did not use Sahih International, but it would come to the same point regardless.

Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.


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My choice.

Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

Contradictory . . . I think the word is "Hypocrisy"

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Indeed this is how it works. How do you think the people who did not have access to "the Recitation" were righteous and guided? It is arrogance to think that Arabic would be required to know the Message and that one people is chosen at the exclusion of all other people.

Huh? It is FACT and basic common understanding that Arabic is 100% without a doubt needed! It is completely silly and illogical to say it is not.

Just because Quran is in Arabic - does NOT mean Arabs are somehow the chosen ones. . . I mean as a non-Arab I have better understanding of Classical Arabic than normal native Arabs. As I have studied the Grammar and other linguistic sciences and others have not. In fact . . . why don't you do bit of study? I think you will find often those developing Arabic were non-Arabs.

How is God helping you any different than Qadiani claimed he was helped?

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It means understanding the Message. You surely ought to know what the Message is if you have read the book.

I still do not know what point you were trying to make.

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"Just one example of your past quote. . . "Quran only" are quick to say this . . . yet are guilty of the exact same crime. Ironic. "

You could not put up an answer . . .
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 03:07:13 PM
Anyways, can I have my Faith in peace now? I am not writing on this thread to argue with those who do not appreciate what I have written. You are welcome to have your "Sunny" ideology and I will have mine. We can wait and see about the Truth later on.

If there is a way I follow it is the way of God, strict monotheism. I believe in God and I work hard to be a good person. And as you might have seen in this thread I only follow three parameters, Faith in God, that I will be held responsible for my deeds and that I should do good deeds. If you wish to believe in more rules in your creed feel free to do it but I will keep it to this. It is fair and hard enough for me and I do not want to make it any more complicated. That is the Message, I have heeded the Message and I would heed it again and again until I die.

Peace


This is repeatedly the problem . . . when "Quran only" are clearly shown to be wrong . . . you take offense and come up with such excuses.   

If you are such a believer in "live and let live" - then you should have *think* before condemning others. . .  and then at least have the sense to realize that others are going to respond. Do not give it - if you cannot take it.

- - -

It is a simple question . . . how is your guidance any different from which "Qadiani" claimed.

- - -


Islam IS the faith of Sunni and Shia. End of.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 03:21:42 PM
I am not particularly offended, only that I know better than to get involved in pointless discussions. I try to minimize with those which will not lead anywhere. You have not shown anything to be wrong.

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Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

Would not have changed my outcome of the study nevertheless.

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Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

Perhaps I should preach God alone then, which in fact I do.

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You could not put up an answer . . .

To be honest: I was not even trying.

You can discuss Sunni or Shia Islam in the appropriate forum section please. Here I discuss something else.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 03:29:30 PM
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I am not particularly offended, only that I know better than to get involved in pointless discussions. I try to minimize with those which will not lead anywhere. You have not shown anything to be wrong.

Actually I have.

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Would not have changed my outcome of the study nevertheless.

This is just diversion from the actual argument.

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Perhaps I should preach God alone then, which in fact I do.

Which leads to doing what God did . . . relied on men to convey his message . . . what was that again?

You do not like the people he chose, the person, language . . .

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To be honest: I was not even trying.

You can discuss Sunni or Shia Islam in the appropriate forum section please. Here I discuss something else.

So you are happy when it is going your way . . . bashing other. When others come to bite . . . hey you can retreat all you want.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 03:34:26 PM
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Actually I have.

Amen to that then.

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This is just diversion from the actual argument.

No.

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So you are happy when it is going your way . . . bashing other. When others come to bite . . . hey you can retreat all you want.

Yeah. There is no point in arguing. Believe in what you believe and I will believe in God, responsibility for my behavior and do good deeds for my neighbor and other people. May God take good care of you.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 03, 2013, 03:52:12 PM
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No.

Saying "No" is not going to help establish whether you are diverting away or not from the argument. Your simple denial here is meaningless.

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Yeah. There is no point in arguing. Believe in what you believe and I will believe in God, responsibility for my behavior and do good deeds for my neighbor and other people. May God take good care of you.


Why don't you remember such might fine rhetoric . . . BEFORE trying to condemn others? Hey! Then such pious sanctimony might actually come across as sincere!



Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 03, 2013, 10:57:11 PM
Peace,

Not condemning anyone. God chooses Himself what will be with everyone. But I choose to believe while doing good and I stand for that. Choose to believe like the majority and do like them is nothing for me while I know certain Truth. God suffices me.

I only asked that discussion about traditional views against this Islam to be kept out of this thread. It is for those who already believe in this Message.

May God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on December 04, 2013, 02:18:21 AM


Chimp is no Champ


Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

Huh? It is FACT and basic common understanding that Arabic is 100% without a doubt needed! It is completely silly and illogical to say it is not.

Just because Quran is in Arabic - does NOT mean Arabs are somehow the chosen ones. . . I mean as a non-Arab I have better understanding of Classical Arabic than normal native Arabs. As I have studied the Grammar and other linguistic sciences and others have not. In fact . . . why don't you do bit of study? I think you will find often those developing Arabic were non-Arabs.



Peace,

I would appreciate you giving the wisdom and sign from the following "Grand Signs of Allah" using only the Arabic used in the verses below; and explain each verse in simple and plain English, using your Arabic linguistic excellence alone: bring out each of their Signs of admonitions and glad tidings so that it strengthens my iman in Allah; and therewith I become a muslim unto Allah, and at salam with Allah as the malayika receive my soul with "Salam" adjudging me as a muslim finally, by the leave of Allah, The All-Knowing, The Knower of All Languages, thus Him making me among "the Foremost".


89:1   By the Dawn

89:2   By the Nights twice five

89:3   By the even and odd


(By Allah, Chimp is no champ)

Peace


Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 04, 2013, 01:36:50 PM
Peace,

I am a bit sad that my thread diverted away from the real mission and instead meaningless arguments. Arguing when the Lord knows best. Let us pray together:

1:1 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
1:2 Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds.
1:3 The Almighty, the Merciful.
1:4 Sovereign of the Day of Recompense.
1:5 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help.
1:6 (1) Guide us to the straight path.
1:7 The path of (2) those You have blessed, not of those who have incurred
the wrath, nor the misguided.

Let us continue study Qur'an

2:2 That is the * Message in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

* Note: Book changed into Message according to my interpretation.

2:3 Those who (1) believe in the unseen, and keep the Mindfulness, and from Our provisions to them (2) they spend.

2:4 And those who (3) believe in what was sent down to you, and what was sent down before you, and (3) regarding the Hereafter they are certain.


What do you think the Message was? Well here comes a hint:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)What my (1), (2) and (3) generally refers to in previous and future posts unless otherwise told:
  • Belief in God/Faith
  • Righteousness/Actions
  • Belief in Realm/Faith

2:5 These are the ones guided by their Lord, and these are the successful ones

So what did it mean with "those are the ones guided"? See two verses earlier where God says: "Those who (1) believe in the unseen, and keep the Mindfulness, and from Our provisions to them (2) they spend.

2:21 O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.

2:25 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say: ?This is what we have been provisioned before,? and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide.

2:62 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them (1) believes in God and the (3) Last Day and (2) does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.

2:82 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, they are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.
2:83 And We took the covenant of the Children of Israel: ?You shall (1) not serve except God, and (2) do good to your parents, and regard the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and say kind things to the people, and keep the (1) Mindfulness, and contribute towards (1) Purification.? But then you turned away, except for a few of you; you were objecting.
2:84 And We have taken a covenant with you: ?You shall not spill the blood of each other, nor expel each other from your homes.? And you agreed to this while bearing witness.
2:85 But then here you are killing each other and expelling a group of you from their homes; you act towards them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was unlawful for you to expel them! Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in part? The punishment for those among you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be delivered to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do.


It ironically happened in the new "Islamic" state and it happens still as of today. People kill each other for their bigotry and arrogance and say "We are better than them".

2:111 And they said: ?None shall enter the Paradise except those who are Jewish, Nazarenes (or "Muslims");? this is what they wish! Say: ?Bring forth your proof if you are truthful.?
2:112 No; whoever (1) submits himself to God, while (2) doing good, he will have his recompense with his Lord. There will be no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
2:113 And the Jews say: ?The Nazarenes have no basis,? and the Nazarenes say: ?The Jews have no basis,? (and the "Muslims" say: "The Quranists have no basis"), while they are both/(all) reciting the Message! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute.


2:119 We have sent you with the truth * as a bearer of good news and a warner. You will not be questioned about the people of Hell.
2:120 Neither the Jews nor the Nazarenes (nor the Sunni Muslims nor the Shia Muslims) will be pleased with you until you follow their creed. Say: (1) ?The guidance is the guidance of God.? And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then there is none who can help or protect you against God.
2:121 Those to whom We gave the Message (THE ONE MESSAGE), they recite it as it truthfully deserves to be recited; (3) they believe in it. As for those who disbelieve in it, they are the losers.


* Muhammad reminded us about the Message of all times when he came about 1400 years ago, but some people formed sects which preach just like these Jews and Nazarenes did in the past to make us follow conjecture. In 2:121, God means those who disbelieves in the Message and were the ones related to in 2:120 who argues about their creed containing extra-religious conjecture. Why I know? Well the history repeats itself.

2:124 And Abraham (or Muhammad) was tested by words from His Lord, which he fulfilled. He said: ?I will make you a leader for the people.? He said: ?And also from my progeny?? He said: ?My pledge will not encompass the wicked.?

It is really the same for any spiritual person ever lived as seen in my parenthetical change in the above verse. Claiming to be of a follower of a person is not a guarantee that one is righteous. Not when one does not understand the Message.

2:126 And Abraham said: ?My Lord, make this a land of peace, and provide for its inhabitants of the fruits for whoever believes in God and the Last Day.? He said: ?As for he who rejects, I will let him enjoy for a while, then I will force him to the retribution of the Fire. What a miserable destiny!?

The rejectors will also be provided for and they are let to believe in all their conjecture and then they will be amazed on the Judgment Day.

2:135 And they said: ?Be Jewish or Nazarenes (or Sunni Muslims or Shia Muslims) so that you may be guided!? Say: ?No, rather the creed of Abraham, monotheism; for he was not of the polytheists.?
* 2:136 Say: ?We (1) believe in God and in (3) what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make a distinction between any of them and to Him we submit.?
2:137 So, if they believe exactly as you  have believed, then they are guided; but if they turn away, then they are in opposition and God will suffice you against them, and He is the Hearer, the Knower.


I.e. the one Message "1:5 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help."

2:139 Say: ?Do you debate with (3) us regarding God? He is our Lord and your Lord, and we have our works and you have your works, and (1) to Him we are believers.?
2:140 ?Or do you say that (Muhammad and) Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob  and the Patriarchs were Jewish or Nazarenes (or "Muslims")?? Say: (3) ?Are you more knowledgeable or is God?? Who is more wicked than the one who conceals a testimony with him from God? God is not unaware of what you do.


2:152 So remember Me that I may remember you, and be thankful to Me and do not disbelieve.
2:153 O you who (1) believe, seek help * through patience and through the Mindfulness, God is with the patient ones.


Once you have sought God's Nearness and Guidance it will take a certain patience before you will reach further towards Islam.

2:155 And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and fruits. And give good news to those who are patient.

The conjecture that surrounds us is also part of the test which the majority has fallen prey to.

2:165 And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to God, and that God is severe in retribution.
2:166 When those who were followed will disown those who followed them, and they will see the retribution, and all excuses will abandon them.
2:167 And those who followed them said: ?If we only could have a chance to disown them as they have disowned us.? It is such that God will show them their works which will be regretted by them; they will not leave the Fire.


Retribution is that they will never see the Truth and the Message will be prevented from them. They are the ones above who argue about their creed. Muhammad, Jesus and those folks will certainly disown them on the Judgment Day when they find out that they loved them more or equal to God.

2:173 He has only made unlawful for you that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated with to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Despite this some people forbid food from right to left without authorization.

2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who (1) believes in God and (3) the Last Day, and the angels, and the Message, and the prophets, and who (2) gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the (1) Mindfulness, and who contributes towards Purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship  and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

How hard can it be?

2:210 Are they waiting for God to come to them shadowed in clouds with the angels? The matter would then be finished! And to God all matters are returned.

2:215 They ask you what they should spend, say: ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?

2:219 They ask you about alcohol and gambling. Say: ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say: ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

2:256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever (2) rejects evil, and (1) believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break (Islam). God is Hearer, Knower.
2:257 God is the ally of those who (1) believe, He brings them out of the darkness and into the light. As for those who reject, their allies are the evil ones, they bring them out of the light and into the darkness; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.


2:272 You are not responsible for their guidance, but it is God who will guide whoever He wishes. And whatever you (2) spend out of goodness is for your own souls. And anything you spend should be in seeking the face of God. And whatever you spend out of goodness will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.

Muhammad was not responsible for any Guidance; it is provided by God.

2:277 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and keep the Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification; they will have their recompense with their Lord and there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.

2:285 The messenger (3) believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who (1) believe in God, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers: ?We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;? and they said: ?We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny.?

No distinction; only heed the Message and leave it there.

Okay. Enough for tonight. Hope it was of help.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 05, 2013, 04:06:37 PM
Let us continue to study the Message

3:7 He is the One who sent down to you (3) the Message, from which there are (1,3) lawgiving revelations; they are the essence of the Message; and others which are of a similatude. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow that which is of a similatude, seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say: ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

It is relatively obvious in this verse that a lot of people study the Message without understanding the whole of it and only parts at best, and they indulge tremendously in conjecture, often to validate their fictitious idols and give them excessive importance. But those who understand say: "We believe in it, all is from our Lord". One example is deriving a different meaning of 'salat' to create lots of extra-religious practices. God clearly warns about this.

3:8 ?Our Lord, do not make our hearts deviate after You have guided us, and grant us from You a mercy. Indeed, You are the Grantor.?
3:9 ?Our Lord, You will gather the people for a Day in which there is no doubt; God does not break His appointment.?


These two verses are clearly part of a prayer that one can utter directed towards the Lord.

3:15 Say: ?Shall I inform you of what is greater than all this? (1) For those who believe in their Lord will be estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein, and with pure mates, and an acceptance from God. And God is Seer over the servants.?
3:16 The ones who say: (1) ?Our Lord, we believe, so forgive us our sins, and spare us the retribution of the Fire.?
3:17 The patient, and the truthful, and the dutiful, and the givers, and the seekers of forgiveness in the late hours of the night*.


Interestingly God seems to even narrow down His whole Message into one important parameter which is Faith. Well, it is most often accompanied with verses about being good, but once you seek God's Nearness and Guidance you will understand the importance of being good. *Note that those who believe gladly spend part of the night in Mindfulness, being in awe of the Lord and purifying themselves.

3:26 Say: ?Our god, Possessor of kingship; you grant kingship to whom You please, and revoke kingship from whom You please, and honor whom You please, and humiliate whom You please; in Your hand is goodness. You are capable of all things.?

No sectarian person in the world has the right to decide any person to be better than another. That is up to God.

3:31 Say: ?If you (1) love God then (3) follow me so God will love you and forgive your sins.? God is Forgiver, Merciful.
3:32 Say: ?Obey God and the messenger.? But if they turn away, then God does not love the rejecters*.


Note that simply believing without (2) Actions will lead nowhere, but when you turn away from evil then you have engaged in Purification and thus God can forgive you and this is what the Messenger wanted/wants to proclaim.

I dislike when those who have divided themselves into groups abuse the Qur'anic expression "obey the Messenger" to preach their nonsense propaganda while it means to simply heed the Message by obedience to God, the Messenger is like a Missionary, propagating for God's Mission. Information outside of Qur'an in this regard is not part of the Message but rather to say that it is from God while it is not. And we know that the Message is pretty simple and clearly proclaimed in Qur'an. The three or two easy steps is what is included in the Message, i.e. Faith in God, Faith in Realm and Righteousness/Actions.

*Turn away from what? The teaching of rituals and strange practices or turn away from honest Faith in God?

3:37 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said: ?O Mary, from where did you get this?? She said: ?It is from God, for God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.?

Even if we do not get provisions this up front; we ought to be ready that it could happen to us too. Mary says with no special tone in the reply that it is from God and we should always feel like it is such as what those who believe receive.

3:38 It was then that Zachariah implored his Lord; he said: ?My Lord, grant me from You a good progeny. You are the hearer of prayer.?

Zacharaiah's Faith was strengthened by this occurrence and he was also inspired to get his own righteous progeny.

3:48 And He teaches him (Jesus) the Message and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.

The meaning changes slightly when you change Book into Message in the whole Qur'an. To be further analytic we might be able to comprehend Message as Knowledge, i.e. Knowledge and Wisdom. "Torah" and "Gospel" ought to have a different meaning than the traditional understanding and no physical books but an important part of the Message.

3:50 ?And authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was made unlawful to you; and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so be aware of God and obey me.?

Jesus elaborated on the Message given to Moses, i.e. the rules bound to the covenant of the Children of Israel such as take no idols, no graven images, do not kill etc. He also unburdened people from some of the punishments which was imposed on earlier ancestors, but he did still preach exactly the same Message of serving God alone, knowing that we will be held responsible and to be good. His mere presence and being can be be interpreted as the sign in the phrase and he primarily preached:

3:51 ?God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him, this is a straight path.?

3:57 ?And as for those who have (1) believed and have (2) done good works, We will pay them their recompense; God does not love the wicked.?

Reading upon the context what other can the Message primarily be than: ?God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him, this is a straight path.?? Believe and do good works.

3:58 This We recite to you from the (3) revelations/(signs) and the wise reminder.

Qur'an is a reminder of the Message, the very, very simple Message of God, yet so hard for most people to obey.

3:64 Say: ?O people of the Book, let us come to a common understanding between us and between you; that we serve none except God, and that we do not set up anything with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God.? If they turn away, then say: ?Bear witness that we have submitted.?

All these (holy) Imams, Muhammad, etc, stand no chance against God when it comes to Guidance, put your trust in Him. The Messenger's role ends when he has proclaimed the Message so readily explained in this thread. We all, including myself, are fallible and we are best when we proclaim something easy that we can understand and when we have help of the Message than it is fine. For fine-tuning we may receive Angels/Controllers, so keep it simple for yourselves unless you get visited by an Angel/Controller, which is very unlikely for most of us. Try to minimize the risk of talking about God what you do not know.

3:65 ?O followers of the Message, why do you debate with us regarding Abraham when the (3) Torah and the Gospel were not sent down except after him? Do you not comprehend??

Abraham knew the Truth of the Lord since he was blessed for his honest Faith, but he had heard nothing of Covenant of the Children of Israel, for example, or the news which came with Jesus.

3:66 Here you have debated in what you knew; so why then do you debate in what you do not know? And God knows while you do not know.
3:67 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene (nor "Muslim"/Muhammadan), but (1) he was a monotheist who submitted; he was not of the polytheists.


In a similar but slightly different scenario happens with Muhammad today that some people argue things about him which probably never occurred and say about God without Knowledge.

3:68 The most legitimate people to Abraham are those who followed him; and this prophet, and those who believed; and God is the supporter of the believers.

What in the world do you think that Abraham, or Muhammad, preached? Well, they said just like every single Messenger throughout history:

3:51 ?God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him, this is a straight path.?
3:57 ?And as for those who have (1) believed and have (2) done good works, We will pay them their recompense; God does not love the wicked.?

3:78 And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Message so that you may think it is from the Message, while it is not from the Message, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.

"They" add tonnes of conjecture and say it is from the Lord and say: "the Message proclaims this!" and it is recorded in all our hadith. So many poor souls are deceived and believe they are following something from God while it is not. In some cases they subconscious mind might even know how absurd it is but they think that "this is what God wants".

3:79 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Message and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: ?Be servants to me rather than God!? Rather: ?Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Message, and of what you have studied.?

Concentrate on the teachings the Prophet taught and idolize less.

3:84 Say: (1) ?We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit.?

It means to treat them as historical figures and perhaps learn some good from them and unlearn some bad things from them. They were all fallible humans who erred, but God does not err. They all proclaimed the same Message and they were good because God made them able to do all their deeds and not because of their superiority except some devotion.

3:93 All the food was made lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel forbade for himself before the Torah was sent down. Say: ?Bring the Torah and recite it if you are truthful.?

Probably the tablet of stone on which the famous Ten Commandments were written plus some memos, likely in hieroglyphs. It is a question whether this piece of stone still exists somewhere. Well, if you recite the remnants of this from the Bible you will have it presented although some slight perversions of the Message is there such as stoning. The set of rules is integrated into the Message of Qur'an anyways so they still remain and if you carefully study it you will see.

3:113 They are not all the same, from the followers of the Message are a nation that is upright; they recite the revelations of God during the night hours and they prostrate.
3:114 They (1) believe in God and (3) the Last Day and (2) order kindness and prohibit vice, and they hasten in goodness; these are of the good doers.
3:115 And what they do of good will not be turned back, and God is aware of the righteous.


What is the Message? Cannot you see it?

3:130 O you who believe, (-2) do not consume usury, compounding over and over; and reverence God that you may succeed.

3:134 The ones who spend in prosperity and hardship, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers.


3:138 This is a clarification for the people and a reminder for the righteous.

Qur'an is the clarified Message, more clarified than before so that it ought to be impossible to miss for the reverent.

3:144 And Mohammed is but a messenger, like many messengers who have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will recompense the thankful.

What is most important? Muhammad or the Message?

3:183 Those who said: ?God has pledged to us that we should not believe in a messenger unless he brings us an offering which the fire will devour.? Say: ?Messengers have come to you before me with clarity and with what you have said, so why did you kill them if you were truthful??

This verse comes as straight out of Zoroastrianism or the Old Testament, if you carefully think of it.

3:193 ?Our Lord, we have heard a (1) caller inviting to the faith (saying): ?Believe in your Lord,? so we have believed. Our Lord forgive us our bad deeds, and forgive our sins, and let us die in the company of the righteous.?

This is primarily what the Messenger proclaims as well as purify themselves from evil while doing good.

3:199 And from the followers of the Message are those who (1) believe in God and (3) what was sent down to you and (3) what was sent down to them; fearful to God, they do not purchase with the revelations of God a cheap price. These will have their recompense with their Lord. For God is swift in reckoning.
3:200 O you who believe, be patient and call for patience, and stand firm, and reverence God that you may succeed.


Is the Message or Knowledge not clear? Problem is that they think the Message changed and people were ordered into different rituals and urged to convert to something which you have no need to convert to but something which is your identity.

May God bless you

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 05, 2013, 04:34:42 PM

Chimp is no Champ



Peace,

I would appreciate you giving the wisdom and sign from the following "Grand Signs of Allah" using only the Arabic used in the verses below; and explain each verse in simple and plain English, using your Arabic linguistic excellence alone: bring out each of their Signs of admonitions and glad tidings so that it strengthens my iman in Allah; and therewith I become a muslim unto Allah, and at salam with Allah as the malayika receive my soul with "Salam" adjudging me as a muslim finally, by the leave of Allah, The All-Knowing, The Knower of All Languages, thus Him making me among "the Foremost".


89:1   By the Dawn

89:2   By the Nights twice five

89:3   By the even and odd


(By Allah, Chimp is no champ)

Peace

If you just want to abusive go ahead . . . why bother asking insincere questions?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: DrGm on December 05, 2013, 06:18:01 PM
If you just want to abusive go ahead . . . why bother asking insincere questions?

peace,

can u please tell, what is abusive here?

peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 05, 2013, 06:24:37 PM
peace,

can u please tell, what is abusive here?

peace

Sure:

The attitude and this: "(By Allah, Chimp is no champ)" and the message itself.

If the person was interested or sincere in asking something . . . then ask outright and plainly. . . . such "wit" . . . and whatnot.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: DrGm on December 05, 2013, 06:45:17 PM

If the person was interested or sincere in asking something . . . then ask outright and plainly. . . . such "wit" . . . and whatnot.


Peace,

I would appreciate you giving the wisdom and sign from the following "Grand Signs of Allah" using only the Arabic used in the verses below; and explain each verse in simple and plain English, using your Arabic linguistic excellence alone: bring out each of their Signs of admonitions and glad tidings so that it strengthens my iman in Allah; and therewith I become a muslim unto Allah, and at salam with Allah as the malayika receive my soul with "Salam" adjudging me as a muslim finally, by the leave of Allah, The All-Knowing, The Knower of All Languages, thus Him making me among "the Foremost".


89:1   By the Dawn

89:2   By the Nights twice five

89:3   By the even and odd


Peace


peace,

sincerely i am expecting an answer for the above.

peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 05, 2013, 06:50:48 PM
peace,

sincerely i am expecting an answer for the above.

peace.

But you are not the original asker of the question.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: DrGm on December 05, 2013, 08:19:55 PM
But you are not the original asker of the question.

peace,

i do not know the answer for 89:1 -3.  as you are well verse in arabic, i thought you will give the answer for question posted by drfazl.

peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: drfazl on December 05, 2013, 11:21:33 PM


Peace,
Chimp


Arabic is Not a Prerequisite


If you just want to abusive go ahead . . . why bother asking insincere questions?

You are championing the cause of Arabic and claim to possess much better proficiency in Arabic than the original Arabic speaking people and also for the same reason your claim is: you are more competent to understand Quran than others. But according to Quran Allah asks people to seek clarification from one who is endowed with the wisdom of the Book and not who is proficient in arabic. So as challenge I used the words: "By Allah, Chimp is no champ." It is a plain and innocuous challenge to you to prove your claim. There is nothing abusive there. Kindly try answering and prove to the world that arabic is not at all a prerequisite to receive revelation from Allah, and for Allah to guide us towards understanding of Quran.

Quote from: The_Chimp on December 04, 2013, 04:02:55 AM
Quote
Yet - using the one you did use in itself was/is and has been revealing.

Sure. And this would lessen the "sanctimony" then . . . on one hand preach "Quran alone" on the other cannot EVEN be bothered to learn Arabic.

Huh? It is FACT and basic common understanding that Arabic is 100% without a doubt needed! It is completely silly and illogical to say it is not.

Just because Quran is in Arabic - does NOT mean Arabs are somehow the chosen ones. . . I mean as a non-Arab I have better understanding of Classical Arabic than normal native Arabs. As I have studied the Grammar and other linguistic sciences and others have not. In fact . . . why don't you do bit of study? I think you will find often those developing Arabic were non-Arabs.

peace chimp,

sincerely i am expecting an answer for the above. i do not know the answer for 89:1 -3.  as you are well verse in arabic, i thought you will give the answer for question posted by drfazl.

peace.

But you are not the original asker of the question.

Chimp, I am the original asker:

I would appreciate you giving the wisdom and sign from the following "Grand Signs of Allah" using only the Arabic used in the verses below; and explain each verse in simple and plain English, using your Arabic linguistic excellence alone: bring out each of their Signs of admonitions and glad tidings so that it strengthens my iman in Allah; and therewith I become a muslim unto Allah, and at salam with Allah as the malayika receive my soul with "Salam" adjudging me as a muslim finally, by the leave of Allah, The All-Knowing, The Knower of All Languages, thus Him making me among "the Foremost".


89:1   By the Dawn

89:2   By the Nights twice five

89:3   By the even and odd


And in your view does this post contain insincere questions?

Peace

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 05, 2013, 11:49:23 PM
Peace,

See I am no expert in Arabic and I have grasped its Message and it is simpler than people make it. And it means total devotion to God alone, believe and put all your trust in Him and do good works and later kbow that you will be held responsible for that at the end of days.

Is it harder than that? Well you have made God's creed harder than hard as it simply being good and work righteousness is hard enough for most not to mention serving God alone.

Can you not see the problem every Messenger had and they did not all speak Arabic.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on December 06, 2013, 12:10:30 PM
Salaam

Arabic is not holy language and just the language of Mushaf.
Mushaf is in Arabic, so the Arabic just for tool to do Quranic research.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 07, 2013, 03:45:47 PM
Chapter 4 study

What kind of polygamy is 4:3?

4:1 O people, be aware of your Lord who has created you from one person and He created from it its mate and sent forth from it many men and many women; and be aware of God whom you ask about, and the relatives. God is Watcher over you.
4:2 And give the orphans their money, and do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money with your money; for truly this is a great sin!
4:3 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then you may marry those who are agreeable to you of the women: two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you maintain by your oaths. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
4:4 And give the women their dues willingly, and if they remit any of it to you of their own will, then you may take it with good feelings.
4:5 And do not give the immature ones your money for which God has made you overseers, and spend on them from it and clothe them, and speak to them in goodness.
4:6 And test the orphans when they reach puberty, then, if you have determined from them comprehension, then give them their money, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly before they grow up. And whoever is rich, then let him not claim anything, and if he is poor then let him consume in kindness. If you give to them their money, then make a witness for them, and God is enough for Reckoning.


As you can see through these five verses the context is orphans and that does not exclude the (in)famous 4:3 when it comes to allow polygamy in "Islam". How people can first read the surrounding verses of 4:3 and then extract non-conditional polygamy in 4:3 is beyond me. Most righteous despite this is to be just to the orphans without marrying the widows can be understood by reading the whole context. Probably it is best if the mothers marry unmarried men rather than this scenario. This is one of the most abused verses in Qur'an, despite the context being very clear if one reads it honestly.

4:19 O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to inherit from the women by force. And do not make difficulty for them so that you may take away some of what you have given them, unless they commit a clear lewdness. And live with them in kindness. If you dislike them, then perhaps you dislike something while God makes in it much good.


The general kindness rule applies also towards wives.

Abused verse no 2 in chapter 4

4:34 The men are to support the women with what God has bestowed upon them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The upright females are dutiful; keeping private the personal matters for what God keeps watch over. As for those females from whom you fear desertion, then you shall

1. advise them, and
2. abandon them in the bedchamber,
3. and separate from them.

If they respond to you, then do not seek a way over them; God is Most High, Great.
4:35 And if you fear a permanent rift between them, then send a judge from his family and a judge from her family. If they want to reconcile, then God will bring them together. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


The psychological approach always works best, better than any physical beating and the verse was not about that anyway. The reaction above it most common for men to make in such situations anyway I think. Either way; common sense is to be used as long as it is something that is good and righteous.

4:36 And (1) serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and (2) do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. God does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

"Love thy neighbor as thyself", but your wife you can beat into obedience according to some people. Strange, huh?

4:37 Those who are stingy and order the people to stinginess, and they conceal what God has given them from His bounty. And We have prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

Have you never had a related person to you prevent you from doing good with your money at some point? It has happened to me. We need to ignore when people try to stop us.

4:38 And those who spend their money to show off to the people, and they do not believe in God or the Last Day. And whoever has the devil as his associate, then what a miserable associate!

This indeed happens very often that someone gets things to feel good and shine in front of friends and people. It is very easy to boast or feel good in front of people even for the pious ones, but this behavior needs to be minimized. Have you not felt pride over yourself in various ways and this is as bad as when you show off with money.

What can salat really stand for? Not something robot-like at least

4:43 O you who believe,  do not come near the Mindfulness while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.

It is best to be careful with the Mindfulness if you are on drugs of any kind, so that you do not appear unrighteous and talk to God without being properly mindful of what you are saying. The text in red in the end is important to the context. Being physically and mentally clean is important for the spiritual bond. "Until you know what you are saying" implies that the things we say demands mental clarity and it cannot be the parroting a 'la traditional salat which at least I could likely do substantially drunk (no I have never done it in this condition, it was hypothetical). It supports the free-talk kind of "prayer/supplication" I have been talking about before in earlier posts.

4:48 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.


Muhammadans, Jesus-freaks, they are all in great trouble!

4:49 Did you not see those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.

Learned ones, or Ulema, often claim to be spiritually clean while the Truth is something entirely different. But we know this:

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

If they come up with more overly intricate rules other than what is found in Qur'an and its simple Message then it is simply not coming from a cleansed soul.

6:126 And this is the straight path of your Lord. We have fully detailed the revelations to a people who remember.

So why do you need the hadith of Muhammad if this revelation was fully detailed?

4:54 Or do they envy the people for what God has given them of His bounty? We have given the descendants of Abraham the Knowledge and the Wisdom; We have given them a great kingship.

Do you not feel al-kitab translates better into Knowledge, Message or Information than the traditional Book? Anyway, the traditional is:

4:54 Or do they envy the people for what God has given them of His bounty? We have given the descendants of Abraham the Book and the wisdom; We have given them a great kingship.

The close descendants of Abraham did not have any physical book either as far as I know. Also that they are Knowledgeable and Wise is better in the conjunction of the last phrase of that verse. But for those who have Knowledge and Wisdom; they are goodly people and they can be referred to in this subsequent verse:

4:57 And those who (1) believe and (2) do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.

They treat others in a fair way and with kindness, much as you have already been taught by the Message. This thread is to make you aware of the true nature of the Message of God. Believe and be good is the Message.

A subsequent verse is a testament to what I just said:

4:58 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.

This is partially the purpose of our Mindfulness that we are spiritually bonded with God and have the Knowledge and Wisdom to do good that we get Peace and Prosperity.

Verse abused by people to be dogmatic about "Islam"

4:59 O you who believe, obey God and obey the messenger and those in authority among you. But if you dispute in any matter, then you shall refer it to God and His messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for knowing.

The best resort is NOT to go and blow the dust off your old hadith books or go to the Ulema, but now it is the finalized guidebook that you have in your hands. The Message is contained within it and there is no need for it because as we saw earlier:

6:126 And this is the straight path of your Lord. We have fully detailed the revelations to a people who remember.

But the one who is honest in his heart will barely need Qur'an either, but it is always a good reminder. The subsequent verse here clears out the misconception of 4:59.

4:60 Did you not see those who claimed they believed in what was sent down to you and what was sent before you? They wanted to seek judgment using evil, while they were ordered to reject it. It is the devil who wants to lead them far astray.

I.e. they could not judge with equity. But if you follow the trap of 4:59 then you unfortunately disobey the Message with the killing of apostates or stoning or whatever "extra-religious" practice there is in hadith.

4:61 And if they are told: ?Come to what God has sent down and to the messenger,? you see the hypocrites turning away from you strongly.

When I preach the Message here on this forum some people react similarly just as God had foreseen. God is All-Knowing, Most Wise. The rejection is that I do not know the language which the Message was revealed in, despite knowing the Message. Is that not a miracle on its own that I do?

In these verses you have the reason for God's talk about warfare and it is not for "Islamic conquest":

4:75 And why do you not fight in the cause of God, when the weak among the men and women and children say: ?Our Lord, bring us out of this town whose people are wicked, and grant us from Yourself a supporter, and grant us from Yourself a victor!?
4:76 Those who believe fight in the cause of God, while those who reject fight in the cause of evil; so fight the supporters of the devil, for the planning of the devil is weak.


When you are a Believer you fight for freedom and justice and not for conquest. The subsequent verse explains well:

4:77 Did you not see those who were told: (2) ?Cease your aggression, (1) and hold the Mindfulness, and contribute towards Purification.? But when fighting was decreed for them, a group of them were concerned towards the people as they would have been concerned towards God or even more so. And they said: ?Our Lord, why did You decree fighting for us? If only You would delay for us until another time.? Say: ?The enjoyment of this world is little, and the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware; you will not be wronged in the least.?

The fighting is as defenders of Peace and Justice, why the creed is called Islam; wholeness, harmony and balance.

4:85 Whoever intercedes with a good intercession, he will have a reward of it; and whoever intercedes with an evil intercession, he will receive a share of it. And God has control over all things.

The whole context here in the surrounding verses is about protection and care-taking.

4:91 You will find others who want to be safe among you and safe among their own people. Every time they are returned to the test, they fall back in it. If they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, then you shall take them and kill them wherever you encounter them. For these We have given you a clear authority.
4:94 O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to he who greets you with peace: ?You are not a believer!? You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do.


I took some important verses from the context so that you see that the warfare in the whole unit is about protection from evil and vice, and not religious conquest or simple execution of projected disbelievers. Even if one does not believe honestly but offers peace then you shall not be aggressive.

More talk about salat

4:101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you shorten from the Mindfulness, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.
4:102 And if you are with them and you hold the Mindfulness for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have prostrated then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet made the Mindfulness come and make the Mindfulness with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.
4:103 Then, if you have completed the Mindfulness, remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are secure, hold the Mindfulness. Indeed, the Mindfulness for the believers is a Knowledge/Message that is scheduled.


Mindfulness is a communion with God. I call it Mindfulness because it could make more sense than "contact prayer", and with a traditional understanding 4:103 does not make enough sense. As we know from earlier with the "know what you are saying", if you concentrate on communion with God you may be susceptible to surprise attacks. Prayer from an ancient point of view I have never excluded, but it is more depth to it than simply robot-like moves.

Good verse for busting the myth of kitab = book

4:105 We have revealed to you the *Knowledge with the Truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous.

* Kitab/Book changed into Knowledge for demonstrative purposes here which makes more sense in the context.

Despite inferior Arabic knowledge I see an inconsistency in the traditional understanding. You must admit that it seems to be more correct?

4:106 And seek forgiveness from God; for God is Forgiver, Merciful.
4:107 And do not argue on behalf of those who betray themselves. God does not love those who are betrayers, sinners.


The surrounding verses are likely about being able to see the Truth in occasions where you have to judge fairly between the people amongst people who may give false testimony. We shall not listen to the one who yells loudest.

4:113 And had it not been for the grace of God upon you and His mercy, a group of them would have obsessed on misguiding you; they would not have misguided except themselves, nor would they harm you in anything. And God has sent down to you the Knowledge and the Wisdom, and He has taught you what you did not know. And the grace of God upon you is great.

Once again Knowledge makes better sense than Book in this regard. When you do not know something, you need Knowledge and Wisdom, yes? The receiver of this, presumably Muhammad, was highly blessed by God in receiving this Knowledge and Wisdom. He became strong in the Holy Spirit. Because Muhammad was infused with the Holy Spirit he could see through their evil ways and desire to mislead. Our friends who still work the traditional ways also try to mislead us, perhaps unintentionally due to ignorance, but because God streams His Knowledge and Wisdom to us too we do not go astray or we would heed their misguidance.

4:114 There is no good in most of what they privately confer, (2) except whoever orders a charity or kindness or reconciliation between the people. And whoever does this seeking the grace of God, We will give him a great recompense.

When they do the things in red you can intuitively "feel" that they have honesty in their words, but not before that. It also further boosts my arguments of (1) believing while (2) doing good as the foundation of the whole creed Islam.

4:115 And whoever is (-2) hostile to the messenger after the guidance has been clarified to him, and he follows other than the path of the believers; We will grant him what he has sought and deliver him to Hell; what a miserable destination.

Many people are aggressive by simply telling them that they are wrong even if it is nicely and clarifying that the Message is only so simple as to honestly believe while working righteousness and good deeds through equity and putting all your trust in Him alone. And of course the verse is followed by this:

4:116 God does not forgive that (-1) partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.

Nay, this is how it is!

4:122 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. The promise of God is truth; and who is more truthful in saying than God?

Is the Message not amazingly simple, but yet so hard for some people?

4:123 It will not be by what you desire, nor by what the followers of the Message desire. Whoever (-2) works evil, he will be paid for it; and he will not find for himself besides God any supporter or victor.
4:124 And whoever (2) works good, whether male or female, and (1) is a believer, then these will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.
4:125 And who is better in the system than the one who (1) submits himself to God, and he is a (2) good doer, and he follows the (3) creed of Abraham in monotheism? And God took Abraham as a friend.


What is it that people cannot understand?

Something that continues the infamous 4:3 and limits traditional stopping power

4:127 And they seek a ruling regarding the women, say: ?God will give you a ruling regarding them and what is being recited to you in the Knowledge regarding the orphans? mothers whom you wish to marry but have not given them what was decreed for them, and the oppressed from the children: That you stand for the orphans in equality.? Whatever good you do, then God is aware of it.

4:135 O you who believe, (2) stand with justice as witnesses to God, even if against yourselves, or the parents or the relatives. Even if he be rich or poor, God is more worthy of them, so do not follow desire into being unjust. And if you twist or turn away, then God is Expert over what you do.

4:142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they stand to make the Mindfulness, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not (-1) remember God except very little.

Or with little intention.

4:152 And those who (1) believe in God and (3) His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them, We will give them their recompense. And God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Heed their Message and nothing more. God is who is important in everything.

4:162 But those of them who are well founded in knowledge, and the believers, they (3) believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and those who hold (1) the Mindfulness, and those who contribute towards Purification, and those who (1) believe in God and (3) the Last Day; to these We will give them their recompense greatly.

4:163 We have inspired you as We had inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And We had inspired Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and Jesus, and Job, and Jonah, and Aaron, and Solomon; and We gave David the Psalms.

They were all inspired to proclaim the Message and thus act as Messengers.

4:164 And messengers of whom We have told to you from before, and messengers We have not told to you; and God spoke to Moses directly.

As you see God only spoke directly to Moses, but the other Prophets received their inspiration in means of the Holy Spirit which was infused in them, or by Controllers/Angels who came to them as Messengers. A reverent Believer does not need God to speak to them directly to have self-esteem and confidence in God.

4:165 Messengers who were bearers of good news and warners, so that there will be no excuse for the people with God after the messengers. God is Noble, Wise.

4:170 O people, a messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; that is better for you. And if you reject, then to God is what is in the heavens and the earth. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

What is the mission of a Messenger?

4:171 O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system, nor say about God except the truth. Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of God and the fulfillment of His word to Mary and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say: ?Trinity.? Cease, for it is better for you. God is only One god, be He glorified that He should have a son! To Him is all that is in the heavens and the earth; and God is enough as a Caretaker.
4:172 The Messiah is not too proud to be a servant to God, nor are the angels who are close to Him. Whoever is too proud from His service, and is arrogant, then He will gather them all towards Him together.


Obviously this is directed towards those who are Christian and believe in the Trinity. It is also obvious that Jesus was a very supported man and strong in Faith. Jesus was strong in the Holy Spirit, like a living Spirit and this was probably a trap for people.

4:173 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.
4:174 O people, proof has come to you from your Lord, and We have sent down to you a guiding light.
4:175 As for those who (1) believe in God and hold fast to Him, He will admit them in a mercy from Him and a bounty, and He will guide them to Himself, a straight path.


Qur'an's primary goal is to help you self-prove that God is really real. And who guides? The Messenger or God? The Messenger only proclaims the Message.

God makes it easy for those who believe, but hard for those who do not really believe. Both here in this life and in the Hell they will end up in. Here they only follow conjecture and advocate evil while the Believer advocates justice and kindness.

Peace from the Lord
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 07, 2013, 04:47:23 PM
Peace,

I am going to study salat a bit more in depth as time is ready, but I do not feel Mindfulness is a "term" entirely wrong. As you perhaps know it has connotations on connection, contact and why it is often interpreted "contact prayer" in lack for other terms. Perhaps as difficult to translate as Islam.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 08, 2013, 05:09:35 AM
Peace,

In case you have not yet noticed it; chapter 4 of Qur'an is mostly about protection and justice. It is the theme of it. God refers to those who do not want to fight as cowards who do not want to stand up for justice when they ought to know that it does not matter if they die or not if they fight for freedom and justice as they will be admitted into Heaven if they believed and were good-doers. And family matters are elaborated upon in the chapter as well and we ought to be kind towards our wives, and even if the ignorant ones say it is okay to beat your wife into obedience it does not suit the theme of this or any other chapter. And those who argue that it is non-conditional polygamy in Islam I wonder where they get this argument from as even in traditional translations this meaning cannot be extracted from it. The surrounding verses in the context about orphans and being righteous towards them busts this myth. We also saw that the best solution would be to have the orphan's mother marry another man without any wife before marrying someone already married. The solution in Qur'an is an "emergency solution", when you cannot be fair to the orphans without marrying their mothers, but most righteous is to be able to be fair to the orphans without marrying their mothers. It is pretty clear.

Something I have philosophized upon is whether it is a marriage contract in traditional regard at all but rather a contract so that conditions are written down on paper so you can treat all with equity due to them not being your "real" children and only orphans of a fallen brother and his widowed wife. Righteous men ought to see that polygamy is not the optimal kind of living and it is hard to be equal towards the wives and it is probably hard on the original wife who married her husband to "share him" with other women. And as God says; it definitely is a good way to avoid financial hardship not to marry additional wives, particularly in the context of doing it for the orphans who likely is an extra financial burden.

And another dilemma we get in continuity when we include polygamy with widowed women is that we know that life is eternal and that the righteous will enter Heaven and then be again with their fallen men. Would they like the scenario that their wife became intimate with another brother after he left the face of the Earth? I would definitely not consider this a righteous situation as if we consider that no one really dies when their apparatus stops working here on Earth but rather go to the next life. It would clearly be like adultery, do you not agree on that? Even if the man is gone from here he is still somewhere waiting for her?

This is why the most righteous is to go hands off the women but enter a care-taking contract to be fair towards the orphans. But even more righteous is to not require a contract at all but simply be fair to them on your own volition.

If I truly loved my wife and the love was returned and then she suddenly died for some reason; I would not re-marry again with a new wife but would patiently wait until my time is due and then reconcile with her in Heaven (God willing). I do believe and I know this is just a temporary illusion and if I have wife and children then I can patiently wait the final years in case she dies before I do. Would she then not qualify for Heaven; God will reimburse me with something I deserve when I enter Heaven (in case I do). Women and children are just tests in this life and if my wife would die I can devote myself 100% in the service of God instead and preach the Message. It is not harder than that.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 09, 2013, 01:51:08 PM
Chapter 5 walk-through

5:1 O you who believe, honor your contracts. Made (3) lawful for you are the animals of the livestock, except that which is being recited to you. You are not permitted to hunt the game while you are under restriction. God decrees as He pleases.
5:2 O you who believe, do not (3) violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted Sanctuary; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not (-2) the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And (2) help each other in piety and righteousness, and (-2) do not help each other in sin and aggression. And (1) be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.

I have a feeling that parts of these verses in this context are not fully understood in any translation I have read so far from any source and I can thus not explain them. May the Lord reveal their true meaning some day. I am not going to guess lest I fall prey to conjecture, so that means I leave important parts unexplained without delving any further into ignorance. Though "some people" consider my elaborations in this thread to be nonsense anyway despite following my best logic and reason available.

5:3 Forbidden to you is that which is (3) already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on altars, and what you divide through arrows of chance. This is vile (seems to belong to the arrows of chance). Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not be concerned by them, but be concerned by Me. Today (3) I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have (3) approved submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.


What is so hard to understand in what I have preached earlier in this thread? Basically (1) believe, submit to God, serve Him and (2) do good deeds. That is what Islam is about; find wholeness and a balance (in the Force (for Star Wars fans ;), even George Lucas got it right without knowing).

5:4 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say: ?All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs and birds catch, you teach them from what God teaches you.? So eat from what they have captured for you and mention the name of God upon it, and (1) be aware of God. God is swift in reckoning.

And they say dogs are "haraam", but it is okay to use to catch the game where they probably touch the animal which by traditional logic would render the animal "haraam". It does not add up. And the "Sleepers of the Cave" had a dog with them inside and it lived with them. Righteous people of the past used dogs but so not righteous "Muslims".

5:6 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the Mindfulness, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall purify. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.

This kind of cleansing is historically very widespread, although I feel that the interpretation is not completely accurate. I still consider that this kind of ablution has some kind of function of being spiritually clean through basic hygiene that you may more easily keep Mindfulness. I have for the better part of my life had a problem that I feel unclean over relatively short time span unless I wash myself frequently and I do not know if it has any connection to this and without cleaning myself I could never concentrate on God. No intention to brag about Faith but well... I suppose you get the hint. Anyway, test improving your hygiene on your own and see if it has any benefits for you and see for yourself I would say; God definitely does not talk against it.

5:7 And remember the blessings of God over you and His covenant that He has bound you with, for which you have said: ?We hear and obey,? and (1) be aware of God; for God knows what is in the chests.
5:8 O you who believe, stand for God and (2) be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. (2) Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and (1) be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.


The theme of chapter 4 is very well confirmed here and giving a good hint at the Message of God.

5:9 God has promised those who (1) believe and (2) do good works that they will have forgiveness and a great recompense.

Why do you think that this phrase always follows verses which talk about the instructions of the Message where good is advocated? It is obviously criteria which are regarded as the foundation of whole Islam. Right before this elaboration on the Realm information (3) God turns to talk about Righteousness (2) and then ends off with the (1) believe and (2) do good phrase. By now even by investigating only a few chapters it is pretty obvious what the foundation of the Message is.

I knew all this before I started studying Qur'an, but my Faith was strengthened and I became more knowledgeable and wise once I stumbled across Qur'an. Qur'an cannot cause all good in the world without proper Guidance. But the Message is very simple and it is as simple as I thought before I started to study Qur'an I have come to realize. It is this simplicity that I wish to make people aware of and not to complicate things and follow (1), (2) and (3) from the Knowledge and Wisdom God teaches. God has warned the people before. Basically take from what is good and avoid what is bad; so it has always been. Serve the Lord and work righteousness through good deeds and behavior. Are the good examples narrated about the Messengers of old not enough for you? Islam narrowed down = Good vs. Evil.

We cut it there for tonight.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on December 09, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Fascinating post Man of Faith. Good effort apart from some translations of words which I don't agree with however you've already pointed that out and I enjoyed reading that. Your point with the dogs is also something I strongly hold too :). A good read might be this. As you said believing in God and doing good deeds is the foundation of submission and giving yourself up completely to God, but we also have mumins :)

http://www.free-minds.org/mumins (http://www.free-minds.org/mumins)

Well done.

:peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 09, 2013, 09:15:08 PM
Peace,

Which words are not right? I suspect "contracts" to be improperly understood based on the context. It is likely meaning to uphold the Covenant of God, to make the verses coherent.

Do you mean the ablution? Or Mindfulness? I have thought of the inclusion of clean soil in the ablution to be strange, but in fact sand is okay to make hands clean at least. Mindfulness must be some meditative or prayer-like activity, but not the traditional "Muslim" way but something more focused as you need to know what you are saying.

Meat of pig is among the most controversial topics but it has not been proven to be wrong so far. I have instinctively avoided pig from my childhood so it might be something about it. The Bible prohibits pig even if most Christians seem to ignore the fact it is in the Old Testament.

Well, it is good that we discuss our Wholeness: Islam. But most important is that we believe and work righteousness.

Mumins are simply people who have reached the point of absolute certainty and they have all three parameters of Faith: Nearness and Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom and Peace and Prosperity.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 10, 2013, 02:14:45 PM
Move on from Chapter 5 verse 10

5:10 And those who reject and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell. - Monotheist Translation rev 2013

Here I agree with other translations which refer to "ayatina" as signs rather than revelations in this case, and that is everything that God ever presented of the Message to Messengers of old and the Messenger of Qur'an. Anyway, those who reject the simple Message we have been going through the past posts of mine are amongst these people who do not heed the prescribed good work and behavior. They have missed the foundation of the Message and thus have a (-3) and not so little of (-3), but that is probably reflected of a hypocritical and lack of Faith (-1), and it is not only me claiming that but God pretty clearly expressing that and it is the same no matter which translation of Qur'an I use if you carefully examine it, except that traditional translations tend to twist the passages to fit the dogma. Without Faith (-1) then you will receive no Guidance and thus no Realm knowledge (-3) and the whole chain falters (-1, -2, -3). It is also quite expressly elaborated by God in Qur'an without my assistance.

5:12 God has taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and raised from them twelve representatives, and God said: ?I am with you if you hold the (1) Mindfulness / Contact Prayer, and contribute towards Purification, and (3) believe in My messengers, and (2) support them, and lend God a loan of righteousness; then I will cancel your sins and admit you into estates with rivers flowing beneath them.? Whoever rejects after this from you, then he has strayed from the path.

Compare the two choices of translation of the words and it all depends on one's preference, I prefer to call it by a word that refers to the mind although the word is a definite noun and has a connotation to Connection / Contact of course in a spiritual way. But since God is not a neanderthal god it has to be an intellectual exchange that is presumed to be established once commencing operation, and you need to know what you are saying:

4:43 O you who believe, do not come near the contact prayer while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you...

Of course I would agree in case you say that the word Mindfulness sounds a bit awkward, but it still gives a better connotation than "Contact Prayer" in my humble opinion. "Salah/Salat" is quite a special word just like Islam and it likely difficult to get a decent translation into English. But the word by applying logic ought to mean establish a link or connection to God on a regular basis in the context of Qur'an, and you need to know what you are saying while doing it which has to mean that it is an intellectual exchange. Possibly it might be that you say things which you may regret later and seem disrespectful.

The intention you bond with God and try to absorb the Holy Spirit is that you want to grow spiritually and thus you can do by the Mindfulness; it ought to be like a data uplink straight to God which boosts you with positive energy. That you add words to that likely has a rhetorical purpose because it is more serious in that kind of expression that simply think something towards God. God gave us the tongue too and He hears us if we use that tool.

Okay. That was a bit of philosophical thinking regarding Mindfulness. Agree or not agree; something must be interesting to read, but as long as you are (1) mindful of God, believe in Him (2) while working righteousness by performing good actions and showing good behavior you are fine.

The traditional translation/understanding is off that chart at least; I mean, God repeats that a special type of ritualistic charity is to be paid numerous times throughout Qur'an. It does not make sense in my opinion, and the same kind of prayer activity with counting of prostrations instead of channeling in on God. Then we are on the neanderthal level again.

5:13 But because of them (-2, -3) breaking their Covenant, We have cursed them, and made their hearts become hardened; they (-3) take the words out of context; and they forgot much of what they were reminded of. And you will still discover betrayal in them except for a few; so pardon them and overlook; God loves the good doers.

"Muslims" too have broken the Covenant and thus you see what has happened as of today.

5:16 God guides with it whoever follows His acceptance, to the (2) ways of peace; and it brings them out of the darkness and into the light with His permission; and it guides them to a straight path.

Is the Message still unclear after these obvious verses? Well. I will continue in case that some people still cannot heed the Message.

5:17 Rejecters indeed are those who have said: (-3) ?God is the Messiah, son of Mary.? Say: ?Who has any power against God if He had wanted to destroy the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother, and all who are on the earth!? And to God is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is in-between; He creates what He pleases. God is capable of all things.

Unfortunately it does not seem like those who believe Jesus to be God's son will have any forgiveness if they die in this belief. It is further clarified in other verses that God does not forgive this association.

5:18 And the Jews and the Nazarenes said: (-3) ?We are the children of God, and His loved ones.? Say: ?Then why does He punish you for your (-2) sins?? No, you are merely human beings which He has created. He forgives whom He pleases, and He punishes whom He pleases. And to God is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is in-between, and to Him is the destiny.

Also this punishment has turned a lot of people away from God when they think that there exists no god because there is so much evil in the world and they are exposed to so much evil. It is the opposite evil chain and tragic spiral which happens when you go minus on the 1, 2, 3 steps I explained in this thread. The "Muslims" in the world cannot see that this is why they are exposed to so much evil too.

5:19 O followers of the Message, Our messenger has come to clarify for you after a lack of messengers; so that you cannot say: ?No bearer of good news or warner has come to us;? for a bearer of good news and a warner has come to you; and God is capable of all things.

And I try to clarify for you without any physical book other than what is already with me.

5:35 O you who believe, (1) be aware of God and (1) seek a way to Him, and (2) strive in His cause; that you may succeed.

5:38 As for the thief, both male and female, you shall cut from their resources ? as a penalty for what they have earned ? to be made an example of from God. God is Noble, Wise.

Traditional translations call for the cutting of the hand here which would seem inappropriate and investigators from this forum have found the same word usage in the verse with the women who say Joseph which most likely did not cut their own hands. No it is no barbaric punishments here. Anyway, the verse follows with:

5:39 Whoever repents after his wrongdoing and amends, then God will accept his repentance. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

So the thief ought to be able to be pardoned if he repents after his crime too. And forgiving is more righteous in the eyes of God (take no literal interpretation of my words please).

5:41 O messenger, do not be saddened by those who increase in disbelief from among those who said: ?We believe? with their mouths while their hearts did not believe. And from among those who are Jewish (and "Muslims"), there are those who listened to lies; they listened to people who never came to you; they distort the words from their context, and they say: ?If you are given this, then take it, but if you are given anything different, then beware!? And whoever God wants to test, then you will not possess anything for him against God. These are the ones whose hearts God did not want to cleanse; in this world they will have humiliation, and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution.
5:42 They listen to lies, and consume money illicitly. If they come to you, then you may judge between them or turn away from them; and if you turn away from them then they cannot harm you in the least; and if you judge then judge between them with justice. God loves those who are just.
5:43 And how can they make YOU their judge when they have the Torah (and Qur'an), in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not believers.


Do you not see a parallel to what happens today? Just insert [choice of group here] and it fits the context beautifully. But people do not even care to analyze the passages of their scripture.

5:44 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a Guidance and a Light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Message of God, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My signs a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.

That old Message is still valid and practically the same as Qur'an which is a reminder. What is so hard to understand?

5:45 And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.

Check up on the Gospel of the Bible and you see Jesus elaborating on that Message. Forgiving is better than seeking revenge. Just because God gave the right to equally damage the culprit does not mean you need to give it back. It might be more righteous to forgive.

5:46 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah. And We gave him the Gospel, in it is a Guidance and a Light, and authenticating what was present with him of the Torah, and a Guidance and a Lesson for the Righteous.

You can see for yourself what Jesus' lesson was if you study the Injeel, and traces of that story within Qur'an. An intelligent man/woman can extract much Knowledge and Wisdom even from the corrupted texts of the New Testament. My conclusion is that Jesus came with some news and warnings and elaborated on the so-called "Mosaic Law" and showed that you can apply your heart and brain in interpreting the Message too; not be like a very literal neanderthal human. God equipped us with a brain for a reason, rarely are we appreciative. Otherwise it has always been the same old Message...

5:47 And let the people of the Gospel judge with what God has sent down in it. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.

Can you extract any other meaning than that the Message is practically the same or God would not let people follow the Gospel? ONE MESSAGE

5:48 And We have sent down to you the (3) Message with the Truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Message and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the Truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; (2) so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
5:49 And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and many of the people are wicked.


The Message is practically intact apart from a few differences as you can easily spot in Qur'an. However, the foundation of the Faith remains the same, (1) believe while (2) working righteousness. If you mock, oppress, murder and kill each other because of your (minor) differences then you did not understand it and fell in a great trap. By not follow their desires means all the conjecture that floods the groups. So clear God repeats the same phrase twice.

5:62 And you see many of them hasten to sin and transgression and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they were doing.

I did not copy-paste the verses in between this and the previous ones as 5:62 explains what they do wrong.

5:63 If only the Devotees and Priests had prohibited them for speaking evil and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they have done.
5:64 And the Jews said: ?The hand of God is tied-down!? Their hands will be tied-down, and they will be cursed for what they have said. No, His hands are wide open spending as He wills. And for many of them, what has been sent down to you will increase them in rebellion and rejection; and We have cast between them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they ignite the fire of war, God puts it out; and they seek to make corruption in the land; and God does not love the corrupters.


Unfortunately I have heard/read similar phrases to this in real life by some cleric.

5:65 And if the followers of the Message only had (1) believed and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of bliss.
5:66 And if they had upheld the Torah and the Gospel (and the Qur'an), and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.


5:68 Say: ?O followers of the Message, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord.? And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.
5:69 Surely (1) those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes (and the Muslims), whoever of them (1) believes in God and (3) the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.


Uphold the ONE MESSAGE. The Messengers go on and on about the same Message but most people keep rejecting. How many times to I have to highlight these verses?

5:71 And they did not consider it might be a test, so they were blind and deaf. But God would have accepted the repentance from them; but many of them were still blind and deaf. God is Seer over what they do.
5:72 Rejecters indeed are those who have said: ?God is the Messiah, son of Mary.? And the Messiah said: ?O Children of Israel, (1) serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will restrict the Paradise from him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters.?


Add Muhammad to the example and it is the same in this case except they do not call him son but he is darn close to it.

5:77 Say: ?O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system other than the Truth, and do not follow the desires of a people who have been misguided before, and they misguide many; and they strayed from the right path.?

Except that a modern Message would be changed slightly the text in red is still as valid as 1400 years ago in a situation we have.

5:87 O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.

5:90 O you who believe, alcohol, and gambling, and altars, and arrows of chance are tainted - by the work of the devil. You shall avoid him so that you may be successful.
5:91 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through alcohol and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the Mindfulness. Will you be deterred?


It is the consequences of these activities which is the bad thing as highlighted above. You see yourself that your mind is clouded and you are not mindful when you are high like a skyscraper.

5:99 The messenger is only to deliver. And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.
5:100 Say: ?The bad and the good are not equal, even if the abundance of the bad impresses you.? (1) So be aware of God, O you who possess intelligence, that you may succeed.


5:106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made, by two among you who are equitable. If you have gone forth in the land, and death is approaching, then any two may suffice - if you have doubt regarding them, then detain them after making the contact prayer, and they will swear by God: ?We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners.?

A link to seek inspiration from God it ought to mean.

5:109 The Day God will gather the messengers and He will say: ?What was the response you received?? They said: ?We have no knowledge, You are the Knower of all the unseen.?
5:110 God said: ?O Jesus, son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother, that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and middle-age; and I taught you the Knowledge and the Wisdom, and the Torah, and the Gospel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird with My permission; and you would heal the blind and the leaper with My permission; and you would bring out the dead with My permission. And I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected among them said: ?This is clearly magic!??
5:111 ?And I inspired the disciples: ?You shall believe in Me and My messenger;? they said: ?We believe, and bear witness that we have submitted.??


It came as inspiration to them through the Holy Spirit. Inspiration is something that may come with As-Salat/Contact Prayer/Mindfulness/Connection/Uplink/(verbal) Meditation(?). Have you not read in the passages that as soon as some Blessed People of old connected to God there came an Angel/Controller to them with a Message or through pure (divine) inspiration? God does not speak to them directly; only to Moses He did, but anyone can become a "mouth of God".

5:117 (Jesus) ?I only said to them what You commanded me to say, that (1, 2, 3) you shall serve God my Lord and your Lord; and I was witness over them as long as I was with them, but when You terminated my life, You were watcher over them. You are witness over all things.?

Muhammad does not know anything about what is going on for us either nor can he intercede.

5:118 (Jesus) ?If You punish them, then they are Your servants, and if You forgive them, then You are the Noble, the Wise.?
5:119 God will say: ?This is a Day when the truth will benefit the truthful; they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally; God has become pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. Such is the greatest victory.?
5:120 To God is the Sovereignty of the Heavens and the Earth and all that is in them; and He is capable of all things.


5:69 Surely (1) those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes (and the Muslims), whoever of them (1) believes in God and (3) the Last Day and (2) does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

Please! Understand the Message!

May God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 11, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
Chapter 6 analysis

6:1 Praise be to God who has created the heavens and the earth, and Who made the darkness and the light; (-1) yet those who have rejected their Lord continue to deviate.
6:2 He is the One who has created you from clay, then He decreed a period of time for you; a time only known by Him. (-1) Yet you still deny.
6:3 And He is God in the heavens and the earth. He knows your secrets and what you reveal; and He knows what you earn.
6:4 (-1) And every sign that came to them from their Lord, they turned away from it.
6:5 (-1) They have denied the Truth when it came to them. The news will ultimately come to them of what they were mocking.


When God talks about rejection in Qur'an we can ask ourselves what God really means and verses hint that people simply reject that God created us and not that we reject a lot of religious conjectural rituals such as the contact prayer a 'la "Muslims". I stand by that God says: (1) Believe while performing (2) good deeds and show good behavior and moral character, and that it is the substance of the Message. But the verses here, and the following verses after these, do primarily talk to the big crowd of people who entirely reject God and deny His existence while indulging in this life without heeding God or being good.

6:6 Did they not see how many generations We have destroyed before them? We granted them dominance over the land more than what We granted you, and We sent the sky to them abundantly, and We made rivers flow beneath them; then, (-2) We destroyed them for their sins, and established after them a new generation.

And their disbelief was reflected in whatever they did in terms of sins.

6:29 And (-1, -3) they had said: ?There is only this worldly life, and we will not be resurrected!?
6:30 And if you could see them when they are standing at their Lord; He said: ?Is this not the truth?? They said: ?Yes, by our Lord,? He said: ?Then taste the retribution for what you have rejected.?
6:31 Losers are those who have denied their meeting with God; until the Hour comes to them suddenly, then they say: ?We deeply regret that which we have wasted in it,? and they will carry their burdens on their backs; miserable indeed is their burden.
6:32 (3) And the worldly life is nothing more than play and distraction, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are righteous. Do you not comprehend?


6:48 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners; whoever (1) believes, and (2) does good, then there is no fear for them nor will they grieve.

6:70 Leave alone those who have taken their system for play and distraction, and this worldly life has tempted them. And remind with it that a soul will suffer for what it has earned, it will not have besides God any supporter nor intercessor; and even if it brings all justice, none will be accepted from it. These are the ones who have suffered with what they have earned; for them will be a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.

The example of Abraham

6:74 And Abraham said to his father, Azar: ?Will you take statues as gods? I see you and your people are clearly misguided.?
6:75 And it is such that We showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
6:76 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said: ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said: ?I do not like those who disappear.?
6:77 So when he saw the moon rising, he said: ?This is my Lord.? But when it disappeared he said: ?If my Lord does not guide me, then I will be among the wicked people!?
6:78 So when he saw the sun rising, he said: ?This is my Lord, this is bigger.? But when it disappeared he said: ?My people, I am innocent of what you have set up.?
6:79 ?I shall turn my face to the One who initiated the heavens and the earth, in monotheism, and I am not of the polytheists.?


Abraham understood that God was One by applying his own logic and once he realized this fact he submitted to the Lord. It is much like my own experience in my younger years when I contemplated our existence and understood that there must be a Creator without following the religions. Abraham had no Torah, Gospel or Qur'an available when he worked this out and verily it does take no book to realize that God is One. And when he had understood and actively believed then God guided him since he had sought God's Nearness and Guidance and he as seen in the subsequent verse became a Messenger:

6:80 And his people debated with him. He said: ?Do you debate with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear that which you have set up except if my Lord wills; my Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; will you not remember??
6:81 ?And how can I possibly fear what you have set up; yet you do not fear that you have set up partners with God, for which He has not sent down upon you any authority! So which of our two groups is more worthy of security if you know??
6:82 Those who (1) believe and (2) do not confound their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided.
6:83 And such was Our argument that We gave Abraham over his people; We raise the degree of whom We please. Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.


What more is the Message about other than what was elaborated from the example of Abraham? (1) Believe and (2) do good. It is that simple.

6:88 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.

6:91 And they did not appreciate God as He deserves to be appreciated, for they said: ?God has never sent down anything to any human being.? Say: ?Who then has sent down the Book which Moses had come with, a light and a guidance for the people? You treat it simply as paper for display, and you conceal much; and you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew.? Say: ?God has.? Then leave them playing in their folly.

Do you not get a funny parallel to Qur'an?

6:93 And who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or says: ?It has been inspired to me,? when We did not inspire anything to him; or who says: ?I will bring down the same as what God has sent down.? And if you could only see the wicked at the moments of death when the angels have their arms opened: ?Bring yourselves out, today you will be given the severest punishment for what you used to say about God without truth, and you used to be arrogant towards His revelations.?

6:104 ?Visible proofs have come to you from your Lord; so whoever can see, does so for himself, and whoever is blinded, will be such. I am not a watcher over you.?
6:105 It is thus that We dispatch the signs and that they may say: ?You have studied,? and We will make it clear for a people who know.
6:106 Follow what is inspired to you from your Lord; there is no god except He, and turn away from the polytheists.


The Messenger's role is to make people believe by being a sign himself or through what inspiration from God he comes with.

6:108 And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done.

Important to know that we should not make fun of those who call upon Jesus or Muhammad, or other idols.

6:114 ?Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book/(Knowledge) fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the Book/(Knowledge) know it is sent down from your Lord with the Truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
6:115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.


6:126 And this is the straight path of your Lord. We have fully detailed the revelations to a people who remember.

What God has commanded

6:151 Say: ?Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you: (-1) that you should not set up anything with Him - and (2) do good to your parents; and (-2) do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and (-2) do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and (-2) do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.?
6:152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear, and if you speak then (2) be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
6:153 And (3) this is My path, a straight one. ?So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous.?
6:154 Then We gave Moses the Book/Knowledge, to complete for those who do right, and to fully detail all things, and a Guide and Mercy (3) that they may believe in the meeting of their Lord.


What is the purpose of the Message, huh?

6:155 And this is a Book/Knowledge that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
6:156 Lest you say: ?The Book/Knowledge was only sent down to two groups before us, and we were unaware of their study!?
6:157 Or you say: ?If the Book/Knowledge was sent to us we would have been more guided than they!? Clarity has come to you from your Lord, and a Guidance and a Mercy. Who is more wicked than he who denies the signs of God and turns away from them? We will punish those who turn away from Our signs with the pain of retribution for what they turned away.


6:159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.

What has not happened? And they claim that we have divided into another sect while we only proclaim the Truth and are Muslims.

6:160 Whoever comes with a (2) good deed, he will receive ten times its worth, and whoever (-2) comes with a sin, he will only be recompensed its like; they will not be wronged.

6:161 Say: ?My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.?
6:162 Say: ?My Bonding, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to God, Lord of the worlds.?
6:163 ?He has NO partner, and it is to this that I was commanded, and I am the first of those who have submitted.?
6:164 Say: ?Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will carry the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
6:165 And He is the One who made you inheritors on the earth, and He raised some of you over others in grades, to test you with what He had given you. Your Lord is swift to punishment, and He is Forgiving, Merciful.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on December 11, 2013, 06:21:55 PM
Peace,

Which words are not right? I suspect "contracts" to be improperly understood based on the context. It is likely meaning to uphold the Covenant of God, to make the verses coherent.

Do you mean the ablution? Or Mindfulness? I have thought of the inclusion of clean soil in the ablution to be strange, but in fact sand is okay to make hands clean at least. Mindfulness must be some meditative or prayer-like activity, but not the traditional "Muslim" way but something more focused as you need to know what you are saying.

Meat of pig is among the most controversial topics but it has not been proven to be wrong so far. I have instinctively avoided pig from my childhood so it might be something about it. The Bible prohibits pig even if most Christians seem to ignore the fact it is in the Old Testament.

Well, it is good that we discuss our Wholeness: Islam. But most important is that we believe and work righteousness.

Mumins are simply people who have reached the point of absolute certainty and they have all three parameters of Faith: Nearness and Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom and Peace and Prosperity.

God bless you

Peace Man Of Faith,

I was more meaning your following translation:

5:2 O you who believe, do not violate the symbols of God, nor the restricted month, nor the donations, nor what is regulated, nor the safety made by the Restricted Sanctuary; for they are seeking a bounty from their Lord and a blessing. And when it is permitted for you, then you may hunt. And let not the hatred of another people; because they had barred you from the Restricted Temple; make you aggress. And help each other in piety and righteousness, and (-2) do not help each other in sin and aggression. And be aware of God, for the retribution of God is severe.

I would say that the translations of Restricted Sanctuary and Restricted Temple are not correct (cross reference occurences in all verses of the Quran and you'll see it doesn't fit very well). I'd recommend reading Ayman's explanation on these meanings or the excellent article Wakas has written for us.

http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

Peace :peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 11, 2013, 11:25:27 PM
Peace,

Okay. Well, I left them unexplained and translated according to Monotheist Translation, but I have my own thoughts regarding them. It is not utterly important in my elaboration on our Faith and you see how simple Islam is.

There is no Mecca we can travel to anyway. It is crowded with idolaters.

EDIT: God blessed me with understanding immediately and I saw that it is related to the Qiblah you heard me talking about before. Of course it is related to the direction of Faith as already previously known by me. Thanks for highlighting it.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on December 12, 2013, 07:41:46 AM
Man Of Faith I meant no harm in just pointing it out. I am simply just making a point about the translation was all. I was not intending to divert the discussion from the number of posts you've so kindly wrote. Don't get offended by it (or I hope you haven't anyway).

I've been studying the Qur'an long enough to know that submission to the Creator is simple. The God has made our system of life easy and hasn't put any hardship upon following the rules. It's up to us if we decide to follow it simply, or rebel against it and cause conflict within ourselves.

Qiblah is simple a direction or focal point. You shall direct yourself to the truth from your Lord. Al masjid al haram IS the truth made evident in the verses of the reading. You'll also learn a few home truths about Mecca along your studies if you study deep enough and include some archaeological research in your searching. Good luck and continue to post your good work.

Peace out :peace:

Peace,

Okay. Well, I left them unexplained and translated according to Monotheist Translation, but I have my own thoughts regarding them. It is not utterly important in my elaboration on our Faith and you see how simple Islam is.

There is no Mecca we can travel to anyway. It is crowded with idolaters.

EDIT: God blessed me with understanding immediately and I saw that it is related to the Qiblah you heard me talking about before. Of course it is related to the direction of Faith as already previously known by me. Thanks for highlighting it.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 12, 2013, 08:42:39 AM
Man Of Faith I meant no harm in just pointing it out. I am simply just making a point about the translation was all. I was not intending to divert the discussion from the number of posts you've so kindly wrote. Don't get offended by it (or I hope you haven't anyway).

I've been studying the Qur'an long enough to know that submission to the Creator is simple. The God has made our system of life easy and hasn't put any hardship upon following the rules. It's up to us if we decide to follow it simply, or rebel against it and cause conflict within ourselves.

Qiblah is simple a direction or focal point. You shall direct yourself to the truth from your Lord. Al masjid al haram IS the truth made evident in the verses of the reading. You'll also learn a few home truths about Mecca along your studies if you study deep enough and include some archaeological research in your searching. Good luck and continue to post your good work.

Peace out :peace:


Peace,

Yeah. I am involved in a lot of the studies of the origins of the Middle-Eastern history and then particularly the "religious" part. You may know that I already did not interpret Qiblah as a prayer direction but rather as the focus on the Faith itself. It is thus accurate that "al-Masjid al-haram" must in conjunction with Qiblah mean the current "submission" system of God. Read that together with the "symbols of God" or alternatively the "signs" which the symbols can indicate.

My current research is on how Zoroastrianism is related to "Islam" and why it is by no means mentioned in Qur'an (which is actually is but under another term), and also misconceptions about Zoroastrianism due to the current state of that "creed". It has not always been a polytheism according to my studies but like most other "followers of the Message" have diverted away from the path. Ahl al-kitab in my studies rather indicate "followers of the Message" rather than most other people believe it as and means those who practically follow the "Abrahamic" creed as it is usually referred to as, apparently even by God Himself as seen earlier in this thread:

6:161 Say: ?My Lord has guided me to a straight path, an upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not of the polytheists.?

It was bookless at that time and I cannot comprehend that kitab can thus translate into book as we know it, but at best Knowledge, Message or Information as I have tried to indicate earlier in this thread.

Quote
Al masjid al haram IS the truth made evident in the verses of the reading

I am not going to argue against that. Focal point of the submission system to God. You should have that in every home that is righteous.

I will get back to the analysis of chapter 7, God willing, later tonight. The intention I have in this thread is to prove the title of the thread that Islam is only about what was in the circular diagram presented earlier and not entirely to show how much superior in Knowledge I am. God guides, I can only highlight the simple Truth as a servant and it is up to the other part to understand or not. And since I started I have understood that you can even narrow down the Faith into two criteria if you really try although some Knowledge in (3) is somehow "practical" to know, but (1) believe, (3) knowing that you will be held responsible, while (2) working righteousness through good deeds and behavior is still the main criteria. If you know 1 and 2 you obviously already believe in 3... of course(?). That you will be held responsible is the most important criterion of the Realm part, really.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 12, 2013, 01:47:59 PM
Let us proceed with chapter 7

7:2 A Message that has been sent down to you, so let there not be any burden in your chest from it, that you may warn with it; and a reminder to the believers.
7:3 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any supporters. Little do you remember!


7:8 And the balance on that Day will be the Truth. So, those whose weights are heavy on the balance, those are the successful ones.

Why some people fail

7:12 (God) He said: ?What has prevented you from yielding when I have ordered you?? He (Shaytaan) said: ?I am far better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!?

Do you not feel the same arrogance in certain people?

7:28 And if they commit immorality, they say: ?We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it.? Say: ?God does not order immorality! Do you say about God what you do not know??

Something that some people should consider with all the crazy flow of hadith in the "Muslim" world.

7:29 Say: (2) ?My Lord orders justice, and (1) that you set yours faces at every temple, and that you call on Him, (2) while being faithful to Him in the system; as He initiated you, so you will return.?

7:30 A group He has guided and a group have deserved misguidance; that is because they have taken the devils as allies besides God; and they think they are guided!

Why do you think they deserved misguidance? Yes, you guess it right, they committed evil and did not do good, righteous deeds.

7:33 Say: ?My Lord has made unlawful immorality; what is public of it and private; and sin, and aggression without cause, and that you set up partners with God that which He has never authorized, and that you say about God what you do not know.?

7:35 O Children of Adam, when messengers come to you from among yourselves and tell to you My Signs; (1) then for those who are aware, and upright, there will be no fear over them nor will they grieve.
7:36 As for those who reject Our Signs, and become arrogant towards them; then these are the dwellers of the Fire, in it they will abide?
7:37 Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God, or denies His Signs? These will receive their recompense from the record; so that when Our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say: ?Where are those whom you used to call on besides God?? They said: ?They have abandoned us!? And they bore witness upon themselves that they were rejecters.


7:40 Those who have denied Our Signs, and became arrogant towards them, the gates of the heavens will not open for them, nor will they enter the Paradise until the camel passes through the eye of a needle. It is such that We recompense the criminals.

Will some people turn arrogant towards these highlights out of the Message?

But the Believers, i.e those who believe and do good

7:42 As for those who (1) believe and (2) do good; We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear; those are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will abide.
7:43 And We removed what was in their chests of hate; rivers will flow beneath them; and they will say: ?Praise be to God who has guided us to this, and we would not have been guided unless God guided us. The messengers of our Lord had come with the Truth.? And it was called to them: ?This is the Paradise; you have inherited it for what you have done.?


They became peaceful because they sought God's Nearness and Guidance and thus escalated. They became close to Him.

7:52 And We have come to them with a Message which We have detailed with knowledge; a Guidance and a Mercy to those who believe.

7:55 Call on your Lord in humility and in secret (?!). He does not like the aggressors.
7:56 And do not corrupt the earth after it has been made right; and call on Him fearing and hoping. Surely the mercy of God is near the righteous.


Note that most people translate the first part of the verse as "in secret" which implies that Salat may be something private much like Jesus advocates in the Bible's Gospel.

Noah's Messengership's aim

7:59 We had sent Noah to his people, so he said: (1) ?My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him. I fear for you the retribution of a great Day!
7:60 The leaders from his people said: ?We see that you are clearly misguided.?
7:61 He said: ?My people, I am not misguided, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds.?
7:62 ?I deliver to you (3) the messages of my Lord, and I advise you, and I know from God what you do not know.?
7:63 ?Are you surprised that a (3) reminder has come to you from your Lord through a man from among you to warn you, that you may be (2) righteous, and that you may receive mercy??


Hud

7:65 And to ?Aad We sent their brother Hud, he said: ?My people, (1) serve God, you have no god besides Him. (2) Will you not be righteous??
7:66 The leaders who rejected from among his people said: ?We see you in foolishness, and we think you are one of the liars?
7:67 He said: ?My people, there is no foolishness in me, but I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds.?
7:68 ?To deliver to you the messages of my Lord, and to you I am a trustworthy advisor.?
7:69 ?Are you surprised that a reminder has come to you from your Lord through a man from among you to warn you? And remember that He made you successors after the people of Noah, and He increased you in status. So remember the grace of God, that you may succeed.?
7:70 They said: (-1) ?Have you come to us to serve God alone and abandon what our fathers had served? Bring us what you promise if you are of the truthful ones!?
7:71 He said: ?A tainting and wrath shall befall you from your Lord. Do you argue with me over names which you and your fathers have created with no authority being sent down by God? Wait then, and I will wait with you.?
7:72 We saved him and those with him by a mercy from Us, and We destroyed the remnant of those who rejected Our Signs, they were never believers.


What is the Messenger's duty? Teach meaningless rules or one simple concept?

Saleh

7:73 And to Thamud, We sent their brother Saleh, he said: ?My people, (1) serve God, you have no god besides Him; clarity has come to you from your Lord, this is the camel of God, in her you have a Sign, so leave her to eat in God?s earth, and do not harm her, else the painful retribution will take you.?
7:74 ?And remember that He made you successors after ?Aad, and He established you in the land so that you make palaces on its plains, and you carve homes in the mountains. So (1) remember the grace of God, and do not roam the earth as (-2) corrupters.?
7:75 The leaders who were arrogant from among his people said to those who were weak and believed from among them: ?How do you know that Saleh was sent from his Lord?? They said: ?It is in that which he has been sent that we believe.?
7:76 Those who were arrogant said: ?In that which you believe, we reject!?
7:77 They thus killed the camel and defied the command of their Lord, and they said: ?O Saleh, bring us what you promised us if you are of the messengers!?
7:78 The earthquake took them, thus they became lifeless in their home.
7:79 Thus he turned away from them, and said: ?My people, I have delivered to you the message of my Lord and advised you; but you do not like the advisers.?


The advice was relatively simple, was it not? Not a lot of complicated rules but only believe and work righteousness.

Shu'ayb

7:85 And to Midyan, their brother Shu?ayb, he said: ?My people, (1) serve God, you have no god besides Him. Clarity has come to you from your Lord, so (2) give full weight and measure, and do not hold back from the people what belongs to them, and do not make corruption on the earth after it has been set right. That is better for you if you believe.?
7:86 ?And do not stand on every path, (-2) robbing, and turning away from the path of God those who believe in Him, and you seek to make it crooked. And remember that you were few and He multiplied you; and see how is the retribution of the corrupters.?
7:87 ?And if a group of you believes in what I have been sent with, and a group disbelieves, then wait until God judges between us. He is the best of judges.?
7:88 And the leaders who became arrogant from among his people said: ?We will drive you out of our town Shu?ayb, along with those who have believed with you, or you shall return to our creed!? He said: ?Will you force us??
7:89 ?We will then be inventing lies about God if we return to your creed after God has saved us from it; and we will not return to it except if God our Lord wills, our Lord encompasses everything with knowledge, (1) in God we put our trust. Our Lord, make an opening between us and between our people with the truth, you are the best of openers.?
7:90 And the leaders who rejected from among his people said: ?If you follow Shu?ayb, then you are losers.?
7:91 The earthquake took them, thus they became lifeless in their home.
7:92 Those who denied Shu?ayb, it is as if they had never prospered therein. Those who denied Shu?ayb, they were the losers.
7:93 Thus he turned away from them, and said: ?My people, I have delivered to you the messages of my Lord and advised you. How can I feel sorry over a rejecting people??


You see; they tried to force Shu'ayb and his people to follow their conjecture and evil ways. The Messenger only said "Believe and do not commit evil!". It is that simple. Can you not see a pattern in these stories?

7:96 And if only the people of the towns had (1) believed and been aware, then We would have opened for them blessings from the heavens and the earth; but they denied, so We took them for what they had earned.

7:107 He (Moses) cast down his staff and it manifested into a serpent.
7:108 And he drew out his hand, and it became pure white for the onlookers.
7:109 The commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said: ?This is a knowledgeable magician!?


It was amazing Signs Moses came with yet people denied and thought it was only magic tricks. I suppose even if a Messenger today would come with completely marvelous Signs people would still disbelieve in them.

The might of God

7:143 So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said: ?My Lord, let me look upon you.? He said: ?You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me.? So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He caused it to crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said: ?Glory to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe.?

Think of this scenario and how unstable the ground that Moses stood on must have become. Must have shaken very intensively.

7:178 Whoever God guides, then he is the guided one; and whoever He misguides, then these are the losers.

The one who seeks God's Nearness and Guidance and is a good man or woman will be guided.

7:180 And to God belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them; and leave alone those who deviate His names. They will be punished for what they used to do.

And I do not understand why people are so obsessed with "Allah".

7:188 Say: ?I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?

7:196 ?My supporter is God who sent down the Message; and He takes care of the righteous.?

My supporter is God...

7:197 (-1) As for those whom you call on besides Him, they cannot aid you, nor can they aid themselves.
7:198 And when you invite them to the Guidance, they do not listen. And you see them looking at you, while they do not see.
7:199 Take to pardoning, and (2) order what is good, and turn away from the ignorant ones.
7:200 And if bitterness from the devil afflicts you, (1) then seek refuge with God. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
7:201 Those who are pious, when any evil from the devil touches them, (1) they remember, then they can see.
7:202 And their brethren attempt to (-2) drive them towards error, they do not cease.
7:203 And because you do not bring them a Sign, they say: ?If only you had brought one.? Say: ?I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. This is an evidence from your Lord, and a Guide and Mercy to a people who believe.?
7:204 And if the Qur?an is being read, then listen to it and pay attention, that you may receive mercy.
7:205 (1) And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and in reverence; and without loudness in words, during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the careless ones.
7:206 (1) Those who are at your Lord, they are never too proud to serve Him, and they glorify Him, and to Him they yield.


Is the Message not simple?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on December 12, 2013, 05:29:32 PM
Yes it is :).

Well done. What else will you be discussing?

:peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 15, 2013, 08:44:03 AM
Peace sushi1992,

The intention of this thread is to discuss the topic of the thread which is about the main parameters:


Since I started the thread I have realized (possibly through extra inspiration) that my original discussion topic has correlated with Islam's basic principles as we recently discussed:


And we also saw that it is possible to narrow it down to only two parts, Faith and Actions.

I began to go through Qur'an to show that my reasoning is true and that I am not only rambling on about something. As we have seen up until now my "theory" is pretty much proven true.

A secondary aim of the thread might be to provide help on how to understand 'Nearness and Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom and Peace and Prosperity', but only in ways which follow the guidelines of Qur'an.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on December 16, 2013, 10:53:26 PM
Keep going Man of Faith especially bout Zoroartrianism.

Recently I read a book about this and now I need some evidences from Man of Faith and noshirk.

Salaam
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 20, 2013, 03:48:50 PM
Peace Earthdom,

I have not had much time lately after I got a new job the other week and many other things besides I spent much time on clarifying that the Message is very simple, even extremely simple and just a couple of steps and could be counted to three at most. The more you understand the less you think that there is not really much to know except believing and working righteousness in terms of doing good and behaving well. Thus preaching Islam is incredibly simple and you had the stories narrated in Qur'an parroted by me in this thread and that is basically what the Messengers of old did. They reacted when evil deeds were done and when people were treated unfairly and they warned the communities of their time, both to shape up and to put their Faith in God alone. See, it is what my (1) and (2) is about.

But I understand you are curious about my Zoroastrianism research. I would like to continue on that topic, but I felt I did not really have more to come with and I have a lack of time right now. God has also thus not inspired me with more.

I am sure that Zoroastrianism was a monotheism which went polythestic according to this concept described in Qur'an. A few thousand years later we believe that Zoroastrianism is not a monotheism and hence the Truth is confounded by falsehood. And like I said before; it is strange that Zoroastrianism is not mentioned in Qur'an, is it not? Well, in fact it is and it is either the Yahoods or Nazarens who are them. Christianity was something invented by the Roman Empire and those power nations. Perhaps even the constant quarreling in Qur'an between those factions is between Romans and Persians where Romans begun to believe that Jesus was the son of God and the Persians had their mysterious figure Uzair which is a mystery still to me. You need to remember that modern Christianity has been constantly formed and distorted and changed according to this principle:


6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.


12:106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.

Despite so much profound signs some people still believe that God has sons. It is incredible how the human being is so naive and ignorant, and believing conjecture some people only guessed that they were true. Even in the 21st century AD a good portion of the people on Earth believe that Jesus is the son of God. You would think that people had become more advanced with the advent of sophisticated technology. God needs no sons or representatives on Earth; the whole universe is within His very hand, so to say. He says be and anything is. He is the ultimate power in the Universe encompassing everything and God does certainly not have a need for any co-regents. It is ONE ultimate Force in the Universe! ONE! GOD is ONE, encompassing all matter, dead or alive, in this world.

By the name of God; will you not believe? And work righteousness in the ways of good deeds and decent behavior?

If I preach the above it is basically what the Messengers of old said when they came around in their respective communities, probably with their choice of words. It is not likely that they only said it once but they repeated it on and on but most did not heed the Message anyway. And if really choose to preach the above it is not my words but from the One who is my Master. Lots of righteous people in the past said the same and they did not want to be called lord, or receive wealth and fame.

Thus is the Message from the start. The rest is conjecture and sometimes individual choices in showing appreciation. What is decent behavior and good deeds? Ask a young child and you will get a pretty good answer unless they are tainted by the reality and vain desires around us. Even human research has begun to prove this. Mankind has all kinds of equipment and instruments to analyze almost everything but they still have not realized that there is a Creator. At least not most of them.

By the name of God; will you not believe? And work righteousness in the ways of good deeds and decent behavior?

Be among those who do it right. They believe in the one who sent them and they know their actions are never unseen and unaccounted for. Do good and treat your neighbor well and be with those who will have eternal bliss. The Message has always been this simple. Why complicate things? You have always a Watcher over you and He does never miss a thing. God is superior, the ultimate Force in the Universe.

You may adapt the Message to the present as long as you keep the principles of Islam within your Faith. But many a people said that you need to like this or do like that or otherwise you will burn in Hell. God never said that. Such lies against the Lord of the Universe. However, the one who invents lies and lives a life in mischief and evil deeds will surely have their "recompense". They say they believe while their actions precedes them. God is One and has commanded that you do good to your fellow humans, to the poor and the exposed and are charitable towards them. The Lord has commanded you to put your Faith in Him alone and never associate any partners with Him.

By the name of God; will you not believe? And work righteousness in the ways of good deeds and decent behavior?

Muhammad was but a Messenger like those of old to proclaim the Message and a prophet of God and was a humble servant and not an object of idolization. He would never have told anyone to say to him 'lord', nor would anyone else who serves the Lord of the Universe. No one seeks any distinction and directs every believer towards God, to put your Faith in Him only. The reverent and those who possess Nearness and Guidance will understand and see the Truth.

Here follows narrations of old:

10:59 Say: ?Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?? Say: ?Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God??
10:60 And what will those who invent lies about God think on the Day of Resurrection? God is with great bounty to the people, but most of them are not thankful.
10:61 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Qur?an, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.
10:62 For the allies of God, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
10:63 Those who have believed and are aware.
10:64 For them are glad tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. There is no changing the words of God. Such is the great triumph.
10:65 And do not be saddened by their speech, for all glory is to God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.
10:66 Certainly, to God belong all who are in the heavens and those who are on the earth. As for those who call on partners besides God, they only follow conjecture, and they only guess.
10:67 He is the One who made the night for you to reside in, and the day to see. In that are signs for a people who listen.
10:68 They said: ?God has taken a son.? Glory be to Him! He is the Rich. To Him is what is in the heavens and the earth. Do you have proof for this? Or do you say about God what you do not know?
10:69 Say: ?Those who invent lies about God, they will not be successful.?
10:70 A short pleasure in this world, then to Us is their return and We will make them taste the severe retribution for what they were rejecting.


By the name of God; will you not believe? And work righteousness in the ways of good deeds and decent behavior?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 23, 2013, 11:33:00 AM
Chapter 8 Message check

Let us continue. I have not had much time lately, but I will try to continue to present the simplicity of God's Message to us. Like explaining the Message. Well, it is just to highlight portions that prove my standing when it comes to the arguments I come with in this thread, and to show you that the Message is more straight-forward and easy than people generally believe.

8:39 And fight them all until there is no more oppression, and the entire system is for God. But if they cease, then God is Seer over what they do.

Obviously warfare is only to uphold peace and justice and not for conquest or because some other people do not believe like you do. System is for God is obviously when there is no evil and vice in the community and not like dogmatically tell people to convert to the illusive Islam.

8:61 And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.

You see the contrast in the verses which talk about warfare and that when the oppressors put down their swords you should no longer attack. It is obvious that the warfare in Qur'an is to restore peace and order.

8:73 As for those who reject, they are allies to one another. If you do not do this, then there will be oppression on the earth and great corruption.
8:74 And those who have (1) believed and emigrated and (2) strived in the cause of God, and those who have sheltered and supported, these are truly the believers. They will have a forgiveness and a generous provision.
8:75 And those who believed afterwards and emigrated and strived with you, then they are from you. And the relatives by birth are also supportive of one another in the Message/Knowledge of God. God is aware of all things.


Summary of chapter 8 is that it talks about doing good (2). It speaks of warfare, but it is a warfare to protect people and not to aggress.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 23, 2013, 02:22:36 PM
Kitab + Book = Not True

I will be blunt; the word Qur'an means book. Look at all these verses containing Qur'an and then compare them with my previous uses of kitab = Message, Knowledge or Information. I will write Qur'an and with my understanding of Book after a slash.

2:185 The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an/Book was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

4:82 Do they not reflect on the Qur?an/Book? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

5:101 O you who believe, do not ask about things which, if clarified, would harm you - and if you ask about them with the Qur?an/Book being revealed, then they will become clear to you. God pardons for them, and God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

6:19 Say: ?Which is the greatest testimony?? Say: ?God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Qur?an/Book that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches, that you are bearing witness that with God are other gods!? Say: ?I do not bear witness!? Say: ?He is only One god, and I am innocent ofwhat you have set up!?

In 6:19, do you not see that Book fits the context fluently while if you say Qur'an it sounds very weird. Yes, that is because the word Qur'an means book like any other book. There can be many Qur'an, but only one al-Qur'an so to say  :rotfl:

7:204 And if the Qur?an/Book is being read, then listen to it and pay attention, that you may receive mercy.

9:111 God has purchased from the believers their very lives and their wealth, that they will have the Paradise; they fight in the cause of God so they kill and are killed; a promise that is true upon Him in the Torah (?) and the Gospel (?) and the Qur?an/Book. And whoever fulfills this pledge with God, then have good news of the pledge which you are concluded with. Such is the great triumph.

Now this would logically mean that Torah and Gospel were not books and this could well be the case actually. Statutes in stone (Ark of the Covenant) cannot be called a book, right? The Gospel many people even before have doubted their book status so to say. Jesus did not write any books. However, there has been a Message which has sounded practically the same all the time.

10:15 And when Our clear revelations were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said: ?Bring a Qur?an/Book other than this, or change it!? Say: ?It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!?

10:37 This Qur?an/Book could not have been produced without God; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and to give details of the Message in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

The verse starts with Qur'an/Book, but later you encounter the word al-kitab, but as you see in my changing this adds more coherence to the translation.

10:61 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Qur?an/Book, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.

Note in the Arabic discourse in 10:61 in the end: وَلَا أَصْغَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ وَلَا أَكْبَرَ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ kitab is obviously used for saved information/knowledge and not book here and this is the words proper use too as we hopefully can agree on at some point soon.

12:3 We tell to you the best stories through what We have inspired to you in this Qur?an/Book; and before it you were of those who were unaware.

15:1 ALR, these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Qur?an.

My own experimental translation: A L R These are the contents of the Message, and a clear Book.

15:87 And We have given you seven of the pairs (?), and the great Qur?an/Book.

15:90 As for the dividers in what We sent down.
15:91 The ones who have made the Qur?an/Book partial.
15:92 By your Lord, We will ask them all.


Here the context busts the myth of the book case. Because God uses Qur'an straight away there is no doubt about the word Qur'an.

16:98 When you read the Qur?an/Book, you shall seek refuge with God from the outcast devil.

17:9 This Qur?an/Book guides to that which is more upright, and it gives glad tidings to the believers who (2) do good works that they will have a bountiful reward.

17:41 And We have dispatched in this Qur?an/Book that they may remember, but it only increases their aversion!

17:45 And when you read the Qur?an/Book, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.
17:46 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur?an/Book alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.


17:60 And when We said to you: ?Your Lord has encompassed the people.? And We did not make the vision that We showed you except as a test for the people, and the tree that was cursed in the Qur?an/Book. And We are making them fearful, but it only increases their transgression.

Of course if you do not understand this verse with Qur'an = Book it sounds a bit weird. Also this tree was not only mentioned in the definite Qur'an anno the 7th century.

17:78 Hold the contact prayer/communion/Mindfulness till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the Qur?an/Book at dawn - the Qur?an/Book at dawn is witnessed.

This is one of the verses I think we do not to 100% understand what it is saying.

17:82 And We send down from the Qur?an/Book what is a healing and mercy to the believers. And it only increases the wicked in their loss.

Obviously those who believe in concrete books can throw themselves against the wall. God's "Qur'an" does never run out of ink.

17:88 Say: ?If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur?an/Book like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?
17:89 And We have dispatched to the people in this Qur?an/Book from every example, but most of the people refuse to be anything but rejecters!


18:54 And We have dispatched in this Qur?an/Book for the people from every example; but man has always been most argumentative.

20:2 We did not send down to you the Qur?an/Book so you may suffer.

20:114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Qur?an/Book before its inspiration is completed to you, and say: ?My Lord, increase my knowledge.?

25:30 And the messenger said: ?My Lord, my people have deserted this Qur?an/Book.?

25:32 And those who rejected said: ?If only the Qur?an/Book was sent down to him in one go!? It was done as such so We could strengthen your heart with it, and We arranged it accordingly.

25:35 And We gave Moses the Book/Message (kitab) and We made his brother Aaron a minister with him.
25:36 So We said: ?Go both of you to the people who have denied Our signs.? So We then destroyed them utterly.


So they were Messengers, and what did they deliever? Well, they came with a Message or Information to Pharaoh. Kitab in verse 35 refers to the Message/Knowledge/Information they received to take to Pharaoh. Myth about kitab busted. They did not bring a physical book to Pharaoh, but you know full well yourselves what happened at Pharaoh's palace. And what the heck do you use a minister for?

27:1 T?S, these are the signs of the Qur?an and a clear Book.

Interestingly God prints out a similar verse as before with Qur'an but opposite order. My (experimental) translation is as follows: T'S, these are the contents of the Book and a clear Message.

27:6 And you are receiving the Qur?an/Book from One who is Wise, Knowledgeable.

27:76 This Qur?an/Book tells to the Children of Israel most of that which they are in dispute over.

27:92 ?And that I recite the Qur?an/Book.? He who is guided is guided for himself, and to he who is misguided, say: ?I am but one of the warners.?

28:85 Surely, the One who decreed the Qur?an/Book to you will summon you to a predetermined appointment. Say: ?My Lord is fully aware of who it is that brings the guidance, and who has gone astray.?
28:86 Nor did you expect this Book/Message/Knowledge to come your way; but this is a mercy from your Lord. Therefore, you shall not side with the rejecters.


You see! Knowledge and Wisdom. This is the Knowledge you can receive. And kitab is not book here but it means something more abstract as previously shown.

30:58 And We have put forth for the people in this Qur?an/Book of every example. And if you come to them with a sign, those who rejected will say: ?You are bringing falsehood!?

34:31 And those who rejected have said: ?We will not believe in this Qur?an/Book, nor in what is already with him.? And if you could but see these transgressors when they stand before their Lord, how they will accuse one another back and forth. Those who were weak will say to those who were mighty: ?If it were not for you, we would have been believers!?

36:2 And the Qur?an of wisdom.

No, it is 36:2 And the Book of Wisdom, thank you very much.

36:69 And We did not teach him poetry, nor does he need it. This is a reminder and a clear Qur?an/Book.

38:1 S?, and the Qur?an/Book that contains the remembrance.

39:27 And We have put forth for the people in this Qur?an/Book from every example, that they may take heed.
39:28 A revelation/Book in Arabic, without any crookedness, that they may be righteous.


Here you see how bad the coherence is unless you change Qur'an into book in 39:28.

41:26 And those who rejected said: ?Do not listen to this Qur?an/Book and make noise over it that you may succeed.?

43:31 And they said: ?If only this Qur?an/Book was sent down to a man of greatness from the two towns!?

46:29 And We directed to you a company of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Qur?an/Book. So when they arrived there, they said: ?Pay attention.? Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them.
46:30 They said: ?O our people, we have heard a Book/Message/Knowledge (kitab) that was sent down after Moses, authenticating what is between his hands. It guides to the truth; and to a straight path.?


47:24 Do they not reflect upon the Qur?an/Book? Or are there locks on the hearts?

50:1 Q, and the Qur?an/Book of glory.

50:45 We are fully aware of what they say; and you are not a tyrant over them. So remind with the Qur?an/Book those who fear My promise.

54:17 And We made the Qur?an/Book easy to remember. Are there any who want to learn?

54:22 And We made the Qur?an/Book easy to remember. Are there any who will learn?

54:32 And We made the Qur?an/Book easy to remember. Are there any who will learn?

54:40 And We made the Qur?an/Book easy to remember. Are there any who will learn?

55:2 He has taught the Qur?an/Book.

56:77 It is an honorable Qur?an/Book.

56:78 In a protected Book/Message.

The difference between Qur'an and Kitab is pretty obvious.

59:21 Had We sent down this Qur?an/Book to a mountain, you would have seen it trembling, crumbling, out of concern from God. And such are the examples We put forth for the people, that they may reflect.

73:4 Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an/Book in its arrangement.

73:20 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Qur?an/Book. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.

76:23 We have sent down to you the Qur?an/Book in stages.

84:21 And when the Qur?an/Book is read over them, they do not prostrate.

85:21 No, it is a glorious Qur?an/Book.
85:22 In a tablet (?), preserved.


Conclusion

This was not all, but mostly when Qur'an is used as the definite 'the Book', i.e. the Qur'an as we know it. I will later also reveal when Qur'an is used in general to refer to book unless that is already agreed on after this long post. I gave only a few examples with 'kitab', but I have more at my disposal and there is no way it refers to a concrete object like a book depending on the context. I know it is absurd for first-time viewers but it is the hard Truth. Kitab is not book, but Qur'an is. Kitab is the Knowledge inside a book at best, abstractly speaking.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 24, 2013, 11:58:25 AM
Before I continue

From here I will change all instances of 'Qur'an' into the English word 'book' while when 'Kitab' occurs I will use something more appropriate from what you have seen from the previous post. al-Qur'an is 'The Book'!

Kitab = Message/Knowledge/Information

I have not yet decided on the most perfect English word to use for kitab, but I use all three of my alternatives at the moment, i.e. Message/Knowledge/Information. If I choose Knowledge then that suits my 'Knowledge and Wisdom' terminology. Who knows, it was maybe the will of God to have my start on this thread. Anyway, I choose Message as it seems to make the reading more fluent. But this time I will print the verse twice with the Monotheist translation and below it my change.

2:2 That is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.
2:2 That is the Message in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.


2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?
2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Message? Do you not comprehend?


There is no divine revelation in book-form for these people to read. It means that they remind them of the Message verbally, and as you can see here do not live by it themselves. You see, kitab does not translate very well into book on a contextual basis.

2:53 And We gave Moses the Book and the Criterion, perhaps you would be guided.
2:53 And We gave Moses the Message and the Criterion, perhaps you would be guided.


Here is a good example to show the power of this new Knowledge. The Criterion (الْفُرْقَانَ) is the tablets of stone that Moses received on the mountain and this was what Moses received in terms of a (direct) revelation and there is no book in the case of him. The tales you find in the Bible are written based on the legend of him and probably while the tablets of stone were still to be found (Ark of the Covenant). The Message is equal to Knowledge of God's Realm; the Realm information I have been talking about previously in this thread. And the Message is very, very simple as we know. (1) Believe and (2) do good.

2:78 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
2:78 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Message except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.


The translation of this verse is a bit so-so. Despite my inferior Arabic knowledge I see that it means something else based on context and the new-found kitab realization.

2:79 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say: ?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.
2:79 So woe to those who write the Message with their hands then say: ?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.


2:85 But then here you are killing each other and expelling a group of you from their homes; you act towards them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was unlawful for you to expel them! Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in part? The punishment for those among you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be delivered to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do.
2:85 But then here you are killing each other and expelling a group of you from their homes; you act towards them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was unlawful for you to expel them! Do you believe in part of the Message and disbelieve in part? The punishment for those among you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be delivered to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do.


2:87 And We gave Moses the Book, and after him We sent the messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your souls do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill!
2:87 And We gave Moses the Message, and after him We sent the messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your souls do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill!


No no no, Moses never got any "book", he received some statutes in stone and a Message. Kitab clearly refers to Message and not book. Good example to clarify the misconception. Message weighs heavily on Knowledge, so you know.

2:89 And when a Book came to them from God, authenticating what is with them; while before that they were mocking those who rejected; so when what they knew came to them, they rejected it! The curse of God be upon the rejecters.
2:89 And when a Message came to them from God, authenticating what is with them; while before that they were mocking those who rejected; so when what they knew came to them, they rejected it! The curse of God be upon the rejecters.


How many God darn books do you think God sent down? No, they received Messages and they denied 'em all, most of them at least.

2:101 And when a messenger came to them from God, authenticating what was with them, a group of those who had already received the Book placed the Book of God behind their backs as if they did not know.
2:101 And when a messenger came to them from God, authenticating what was with them, a group of those who had already received the Message placed the Message of God behind their backs as if they did not know.


2:105 Neither do those who have rejected from among the people of the Book, nor from among the polytheists, wish that any good comes down to you from your Lord. But God chooses with His mercy whom He wishes; and from God is the greatest grace.
2:105 Neither do those who have rejected from among the followers of the Message, nor from among the polytheists, wish that any good comes down to you from your Lord. But God chooses with His mercy whom He wishes; and from God is the greatest grace.


2:109 Many of the people of the Book have wished that they could return you to being rejecters after your believing, out of envy from their souls after the truth was made clear to them. You shall forgive them and overlook until God brings His will. God is capable of all things.
2:109 Many of the followers of the Message have wished that they could return you to being rejecters after your believing, out of envy from their souls after the truth was made clear to them. You shall forgive them and overlook until God brings His will. God is capable of all things.


2:113 And the Jews say: ?The Nazarenes have no basis,? and the Nazarenes say: ?The Jews have no basis,? while they are both reciting the Book! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute.
2:113 And the Jews say: ?The Nazarenes have no basis,? and the Nazarenes say: ?The Jews have no basis,? while they are both reciting the Message! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute.


One of those verses in 'The Book' which ought to prove that kitab is Message.

2:121 Those to whom We gave the Book, they recite it as it truthfully deserves to be recited; they believe in it. As for those who disbelieve in it, they are the losers.
2:121 Those to whom We gave the Message, they recite it as it truthfully deserves to be recited; they believe in it. As for those who disbelieve in it, they are the losers.


2:129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the Wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?
2:129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Knowledge and the Wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?


Here is the killer. This verse busts the myth of kitab as book completely. I even translated into Knowledge because it suits the context so beautifully. Abraham did not even possess a book at his time and he could likely not see the future. Kitab IS NOT a physical book

Tired of printing out verses twice:

2:144 We see the shifting of your face towards the heaven; We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you: ?You shall set yourself towards the Restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it.? Those who have been given the Message know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.
2:145 And if you come to those who have been given the Message with every sign they will not follow your focal point, nor will you follow their focal point, nor will some of them even follow each others focal point. And if you were to follow their desires after the information that has come to you, then you would be one of the wicked.
2:146 Those to whom We have given the Message know it as they know their own children; and a group of them hides the truth while they know.


2:151 As We have sent a messenger to you from among yourselves to recite Our revelations to you, and purify you, and teach you the Knowledge and the Wisdom, and teach you what you did not know.

2:159 Surely those who conceal what We have sent down to them of the clarities and the guidance, after We Had made it clear for the followers of the Book; these will be cursed by God and be cursed by those who curse.

2:174 Surely, those who conceal what God has sent down of the Message, and they purchase with it a cheap price; they will not eat in their bellies except the Fire, and God will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution.

2:176 This is because God has sent down the Message with the truth; and those who have disputed about the Message are in far opposition.

2:177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who (1) believes in God and (3) the Last Day, and the angels, and the Message, and the prophets, and (2) who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

2:178 O you who believe, equivalence has become Knowledge for you in the case of those who are slain; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. Whoever is forgiven anything by his brother, then it is to be followed with kindness and goodness towards him; that is an alleviation from your Lord, and a mercy. Whoever transgresses after that, he will have a painful retribution.

2:180 It has become Knowledge for you that if death should come to any of you, that it is best if he leaves a will for his family and relatives out of goodness; this is a truth for the righteous.

Note: Apologize, experimental translation attempts using the new-found discovery about kitab. That was the most useful translation I could achieve. I know I am talking about the root کتب. But simply seeing that it is told a per Message it is important to see this contrast. It does not necessarily change the meaning even if the translation is not 100% accurate.

2:183 O you who believe, fasting has become Knowledge for you as it was Knowledge for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.

2:185 The month of Ramadhan, in which the Book was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the Guidance and the Criterion. Whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

This verse is not containing kitab, but there was a brief observation I made in this verse while reading and that was the mysterious الْفُرْقَانِ al-furqan as was given to Moses. This is one of those confusing and disputed verses whether there is a fasting or not. The book according to my interpretation elaborates on the al-furqan given to Moses. I have doubts that the Message has changed very much from the past and it seems extreme with 30 days of fasting per year and the other people who followed the Message in the past do not seem to have fasted for 30 days in a row.

2:213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Knowledge with the Truth so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.

2:231 And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably. And do not reconcile with them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wrong to his soul; and do not take the revelations of God as mockery. And remember the blessings of God upon you, and what was sent down to you of the Knowledge and the Wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is knowledgeable of all things.

2:285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Messages, and His messengers: ?We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;? and they said: ?We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny.?

I will not continue on this as I feel the walk-through here with chapter 2 is enough for busting this myth.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 07:04:02 AM
Chapter 9 Message check

9:4 Except for those with whom you had made a pledge from among the polytheists if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they support anyone against you; you shall continue the pledge with them until its expiry. (2) God loves the righteous.
9:5 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.


This translation in incompatible with the Message as it is pretty dogmatic and zealous as it obviously makes it fine to kill them if they do not perform "the Contact Prayer". It is another instance of the word as-salat being misunderstood if you ask me. However, if you understand the word as-salat as in being mindful of God, respecting His system and azzakat as doing things which purify you then it a whole lot better sense, i.e. righteous actions which are not mischief and vice. Traditional translation makes it fine to kill them as long as they do not start praying. Sadly this is one of the verses in 'the Book' which is abused to propagate "Islam" violently and dogmatically.

9:10 They do not respect those who are believers, nor a kinship, nor a pledge. These are the transgressors.
9:11 If they repent, and they keep Mindful, and they contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.


Sorry, it is impossible for me to see these lines as contact praying at all.

9:13 Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths, and obsessed to expel the messenger, especially while they were the ones who attacked you first? Are you concerned about them? It is God who is more deserving that you be concerned with if you are believers.
9:14 Fight them; perhaps God will punish them by your hands and humiliate them and grant you victory over them and heal the chests of the believing people.
9:15 And to remove the anger from their hearts; God pardons whom he pleases. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.


It is fighting against oppression in the whole context as we can see, to fight evil in the people and only fight until there is no more oppression. And no unnecessary killing. If those who fight are righteous when they win against them and let them live when they surrender they might see the Light and believe.

9:17 It was not for the polytheists to maintain the temples of God while they bear witness over their own rejection. For these, their works have fallen, and in the Fire they will abide.
9:18 Rather, the temples of God are maintained by he who believes in God and the Last Day, and he keeps the Communion, and he contributes towards Purification, and is only concerned by God. It is these that will be of the guided ones.
9:19 Have you made the watering of the pilgrim and the maintenance of the Restricted Temple the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.


It is obvious that these people sought their own monetary gain and gave little in return. And a little like it is today in Mecca, where the Saudi government squeaks out every little coin of the pilgrims and to only earn more money to their wealth and fame. History repeats itself. Communion is sadly associated with Pagan rituals in Christianity, but the word fits our needs in English as according to this dictionary input: com‧mun‧ion / kəˈmyunyən / noun 2 [ uncountable ]              formal              a special relationship with someone or something which makes you feel that you understand them very well
between/​with                   

▪ In the mountains, I feel in communion with nature.

I suppose you go right on spot with this definition from the dictionary concerning salah. I think we, praise to God, went right on spot in the definition of as-salah. Of course it does not conflict with the prescribed regular salat as it is also a definite communion.

9:24 Say: ?If your fathers, and your sons, and your brothers, and your wives, and your kin, and money which you have gathered, and a trade which you would be concerned over its decline, and homes which you find pleasing; if these are dearer to you than God and His messenger and striving in His cause, then wait until God brings His decision. And God does not guide the wicked people.?

One of the abused verses to put love on Muhammad while it means loving the cause of God and His Messenger (at that time).

9:29 Fight those who do not believe in God or the Last Day, nor do they restrict what God and His messenger have restricted, nor do they uphold the system of truth; from among the people who have been given the Message; until they pay the reparation, willingly or unwillingly, and they are subdued.

Another abused verse. Even used to take out a constant tax (jizyah) from any non-muslim forever and ever. Its traditional interpretation conflicts and contradicts the verse which tells that there is no compulsion in the system. Why should they pay an unfair tax simply for not believing the way another one does, when it is said that righteous Nazarenes and Jews will go to Heaven.

9:30 The Jews said: ?Ezra is the son of God,? and the Nazarenes said: ?The Messiah is the son of God.? Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!

Of course these ones were not the only assigned sons of God when 'the Book' was revealed.

9:31 They have taken their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah, son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god except He, be He glorified against what they set up.

Obviously this is against the ancient Criterion given to Moses "You shall have no other gods before Me, You shall not make idols. What do the people not do anyway? Both Jews and Christians had the Message at their hands and yet they manage to create sons of God. What ignorance is that not? And now Muhammad is a patron of God too, so the history repeats itself, while they were told to serve One god.

9:33 He is the One who has sent His messenger with the Guidance and the system of Truth, so that it will expose all other systems, even if the polytheists hate it.

We have patrons of polytheists here who hate the things we write. Is that not a fulfillment of what God has already told? They want us to revert to their ways.

9:66 Do not apologize, for you have rejected after your belief. If We pardon one group from you, We will punish another group. That is because they were criminals.
9:67 The hypocrite males and the hypocrite females, they are to each other. They order vice and prohibit good, and they close their hands. They forgot God, so He will forget them; indeed, the hypocrites are the wicked.


It is obvious that they "believed" until the Messenger came around and showed that the loads of conjecture that had in their system was only wrong and that the Message was only consisting of a few tiny parameters, possible to be narrowed down to (1) believe and (2) do good.

9:70 Did the news not come to them of those before them, the people of Noah and ?Aad and Thamud. And the people of Abraham, and the dwellers of Midyan, and those overthrown. Their messengers came to them with clarity; it was not God who wronged them, but it was themselves that they wronged.

Have I not told you in previous posts what these people came and told to their respective communities? It was very plain simple telling them to be good and believe in the One god.

9:86 And if a chapter is sent down: ?That you shall (1) believe in God and (2) strive with His messenger,? those with wealth and influence ask your leave and they say: ?Let us be with those who remain behind.?

9:111 God has purchased from the believers their very lives and their wealth, that they will have the Paradise; they fight in the cause of God so they kill and are killed; a promise that is true upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Book. And whoever fulfills this pledge with God, then have good news of the pledge which you are concluded with. Such is the great triumph.

9:119 O you who believe, be aware of God and be with the truthful.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Joe Betik on December 25, 2013, 08:20:49 AM
Salam Man of faith,

The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

Cheers!
mohammed noh
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 09:52:00 AM
Salam Man of faith,

The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

Cheers!
mohammed noh

Problem is he has no expertise or much knowledge of Arabic.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on December 25, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
Salaam Joe Betik

The meaning of 'qur-an' depends, methinks, on our understanding of the word 'iqra' (Chapter 96), because they share Radicals (Roots). As such, some people view 'qur-an' as 'reading', when they viewed 'iqra' as the imperative 'read.' But since you proposed that 'qur-an' is 'book', what is 'iqra' then?

However, I agree with you that 'kitab' could (personally it should) be 'message', but i do not see the potential meaning could be 'knowledge' or 'information', as I believe Arabic has other terms for these two English words. I believe 'knowledge' is '3ilm' while 'information' is 'ma3loomat' and we frequently come across these Arabic terms in the Qur-an.

You missunderstood Man of Faith.He never said Quran = message.

He created that arguments, because he against mine intepretation in of Alkitab in 2:2.
Man of Faith just try to see "Al Kitab" in 2:2 as message, not "The Book" which it's literal/harafiyah meaning.

Quran = recitation, while iqra is fi'il/verb form of Quran and mean "recite".

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 10:30:28 AM
Peace,

No, I was not misunderstood, but it was something I have been thinking about for some time. Kitab is not literally book but Message but connotes to source of Knowledge. You see my flows of text and see message fits perfectly whereas it sounds even pathetic in some parts when you use the traditional choices. Also Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

It was not really to meet Earthdom I began this talk but because I was convinced about the misconception now. Verily look at the verses with new Light and you shall see. Forget dictionaries and only think about coherence and comprehension.

The Chimp can go somewhere else and show himself. Put the face down in some Hadith books instead of fooling around here. I do not care if I only knew one word of Arabic. With God's help even a complete unlettered person could learn the whole Message.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 11:18:47 AM
Peace,

No, I was not misunderstood, but it was something I have been thinking about for some time. Kitab is not literally book but Message but connotes to source of Knowledge. You see my flows of text and see message fits perfectly whereas it sounds even pathetic in some parts when you use the traditional choices. Also Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

It was not really to meet Earthdom I began this talk but because I was convinced about the misconception now. Verily look at the verses with new Light and you shall see. Forget dictionaries and only think about coherence and comprehension.

The Chimp can go somewhere else and show himself. Put the face down in some Hadith books instead of fooling around here. I do not care if I only knew one word of Arabic. With God's help even a complete unlettered person could learn the whole Message.

God bless you

"Kitab is not literally book but Message"

Reference? Evidence?

Nothing . . . just what you invent.

- - -

Quote
Also Quran is physically book and it is something you read from. Certainly a book can be in verbal form too but it is still book. It is an Arabic Book :-) not Arabic Quran, so I doubt it is a proper noun.

Once more - this is completely incorrect . . . and highlights fundamental lack of understanding what a Proper Noun is . . . also higlights your lack of knowledge in Arabic.

Hence - once more - you resort to making things up . . . you do not know what you are talking about.



 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 11:37:39 AM
Reference is God. Peace out.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: jhonsonmustafa on December 25, 2013, 11:51:15 AM
Problem is he has no expertise or much knowledge of Arabic.

Peace,

Please Show mercy to others... It disturbs peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 12:29:09 PM
Reference is God. Peace out.

And  what does that mean?

What does that mean?

- - -

That I am right . . .you invented it from your mind . . . and referenced it to God!

Is he sending you "messages" now? How do you know it ain't Satan?

- - -

I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1XaNU20II8

Look! Australian Jesus!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 12:32:44 PM
But I have strong Faith in The Lord. It can surely compensate some petty linguistic skill. Now the Message is so simple that I could do without the Book too if I wanted. Are we arguing when Abraham could discover about and serve God while there was not yet revealed any scripture and his father and people was hardcore polytheist?

It is only when we try to derive more meanings from the words than the simplest possible it becomes disputes. But kitab is message, Quran is book no matter in written or verbal form and can thus surely be recited with or without a physical book at hand. The Book is an Arabic book. Salat is simple and plain communication or tie to God, referred by me as Communion. Simple as that.

If one wants to make it more complicated than that well fine, but do not involve me when I am fine without all extra-religious stuff.

Peace
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 12:34:19 PM
Peace,

You know nothing about God so opt out from this discussion.

Reference is God and then it is the Book,
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 01:04:53 PM
But I have strong Faith in The Lord. It can surely compensate some petty linguistic skill. Now the Message is so simple that I could do without the Book too if I wanted. Are we arguing when Abraham could discover about and serve God while there was not yet revealed any scripture and his father and people was hardcore polytheist?

It is only when we try to derive more meanings from the words than the simplest possible it becomes disputes. But kitab is message, Quran is book no matter in written or verbal form and can thus surely be recited with or without a physical book at hand. The Book is an Arabic book. Salat is simple and plain communication or tie to God, referred by me as Communion. Simple as that.

If one wants to make it more complicated than that well fine, but do not involve me when I am fine without all extra-religious stuff.

Peace

Quote
But I have strong Faith in The Lord. It can surely compensate some petty linguistic skill.

So does the Australian Jesus - in fact his might be stronger . . . the Pope . . . another example. So reading and understanding what the message is . . . that to you is petty? Why?

I thought the WHOLE point is the Quran . . . so why would studying that be petty? I do not get that! I mean that is what it is about.

- -

Quote
Now the Message is so simple that I could do without the Book too if I wanted.

Again - you keep banging on about the message . . . . what message? Who is sending you messages . . .

- -

Quote
Are we arguing when Abraham could discover about and serve God while there was not yet revealed any scripture and his father and people was hardcore polytheist?

No we are discussing you. And his tribe were polytheist - yes. But what of it?

- -

Quote
It is only when we try to derive more meanings from the words than the simplest possible it becomes disputes. But kitab is message


I do not know what this means.

- -

Quote
Quran is book no matter in written or verbal form and can thus surely be recited with or without a physical book at hand.

Yes. But somehow I do not think you can recite it by heart.

- -

Quote
The Book is an Arabic book. Salat is simple and plain communication or tie to God, referred by me as Communion. Simple as that.

Again - what does it all mean.

- -

Quote
If one wants to make it more complicated than that well fine, but do not involve me when I am fine without all extra-religious stuff.

What extra religious stuff? Learning the Quran is NOT "extra" stuff. It is basic common sense!

I mean how do you live at all . . . is a wonder to me! I did not think one had to make people understand . . . what "learning" is all about!



Quote
You know nothing about God so opt out from this discussion.

Reference is God and then it is the Book,

Saying that is no help . . . what god?

Is it the one like Joseph Smith . . .?

Australasian Jesus?

Rashad Khalifah and the number 19?

Elijah Muhammad?

What messages have you been getting?



Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 01:58:27 PM
Peace,

I discovered about God on my own and I did not need any Book for that. It is the example of Abraham that I pointed out in the previous post.

God's Message of course. Do you know anything worth knowing at all?

And what is the Message? Serve the Lord with all your heart and do good. It is quite so easy that even a young child could possibly see right from wrong if it was not from the harsh world and weak minds that we have. Good we have a God to seek help from.

Except the fools need more than that. Stop arguing with me about God when Faith has come to me and go to your conjecture instead and let those who seek the Lord do so without mockery.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 02:59:18 PM
Quote
I discovered about God on my own

I doubt it . . . as it depends - if you grew up in Sunni/Shia Muslim [or generally a Muslim background] then you would have been indoctrinated. But explain how?

However - whether you believe in God or not is FUNDAMENTAL question . . . and it is BEFORE whether you choose to follow a religion or not. Hence - even those - like me - indoctrinated as kids when adult have the chance to rethink and choose. However - I do not think this is what you are referring to.

- -

Quote
God's Message of course. Do you know anything worth knowing at all?

Try not to get like this . . . and I am ASKING you . . . so please explain.

- -

Quote
And what is the Message? Serve the Lord with all your heart and do good. It is quite so easy that even a young child could possibly see right from wrong if it was not from the harsh world and weak minds that we have. Good we have a God to seek help from.

But this is just general guff - practically EVERY sane adult knows this . . . in fact irrespective of whether they believe in God or not!

- -

Quote
Except the fools need more than that. Stop arguing with me about God when Faith has come to me and go to your conjecture instead and let those who seek the Lord do so without mockery.

Once again . . . you make no sense . . . you are unable to explain yourself . . . and I pose a legitimate question . . .

How is your alleged relationship with god any different than that of the Australian Jesus?

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Joe Betik on December 25, 2013, 03:57:26 PM
Peace,

I discovered about God on my own and I did not need any Book for that. It is the example of Abraham that I pointed out in the previous post.

God's Message of course. Do you know anything worth knowing at all?

And what is the Message? Serve the Lord with all your heart and do good. It is quite so easy that even a young child could possibly see right from wrong if it was not from the harsh world and weak minds that we have. Good we have a God to seek help from.

Except the fools need more than that. Stop arguing with me about God when Faith has come to me and go to your conjecture instead and let those who seek the Lord do so without mockery.


Salam Man of Faith,

Please don't be sad. Please calm down, instead. Don't let one person disturb your day, when there are many others who appreciate and welcome what you are doing.

Allow me to quote an earlier post please:


...

In fact for some years now I have adopted the opinion that as long as a person refers to God about anything and everything, God will surely guides that person. God will never take that person's faith for granted. Even without that person studying the Q, let alone understands Arabic. So even an illiterate in the North Pole could always ask God, anytime, anywhere, anyhow. God is with us wherever we are.

And the Q that we study was the guide for Muhammad the prophet. It was his guide to becoming into a true servant of God that befits the status of God's 'khalifa' (proxy) in this earthly life. It should be the easier option if we were to study, understand and adhere to the Q. Still we must refer to God for the correct meaning as meant by God. And still we have to empty the cup to rid all types of baggage.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, never ever leave God out of our life equation. Then only will God be the Lord of our comprehension (rabbi al3alameen), the reference, the teacher, the knowledgable, the just, the wise, the compassionate, the understanding, the master at the time of accountability, the supporter, the friend, etc.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605460.msg330680#msg330680


Are you a living proof to my above statement? :)


But seriously, guys, when God is the Lord of comprehension in a person's study of the Qur-an, then little knowledge of Arabic might not be any hindrence whatsoever, as the meaning (in the language that person understands) might automatically be revealed upon the person while the person is reading the Arabic text. In other words, while reading the Arabic text, one might just see the meaning (in the language that he/she understands) on the Arabic text itself. And this is also one of the many forms of revelation. I hope this explains.

But, this is just one of the numerous methods that God could employ to make a person fully understand the Qur-an. And we learn about God teaching man in 96:5 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=96&verse=5).

In fact, even if a person doesn't know anything about the Qur-an, or even Islam, but the person establishes a correct 'relationship' (salat) with the correct 'God' (Allah), please refer to the hadith on Ibraheem's search for God with logic in Chapter 2, then God will surely provide the person with appropriate guidance.

But why appropriate guidance, you might ask. It depends on what we ask God for.

Any 'ommiy' (one without prior knowledge) could ask questions like: "God, who am I? God, where are You? God, am I correct to view this matter like this? God, please guide me to understand this matter correctly." Etc.

But students of the Qur-an like us all here, how many of us ask God for the correct meanings (as meant by God) for certain Arabic words/concepts in the Qur-an, like 'salat' or 'hajj' for example?

In the narratives of past prophets in the Qur-an, we also learn that God's guidance was usually revealed to them on the-need-to-know basis.

So likewise, the same basis is applicable to us too. Meaning, God may or may not reveal everything that we have asked for. Even comprehensions regarding the Chapters or concepts we come across in the Qur-an. Sometimes it is simply a test of patience. Sometimes it is about our level of closeness to God, thus our standing (makam). It might even be due to our carelessness towards past revelations. Or it might be that a revelation might not be appropriate. This is merely my personal comprehensions, but God knows best regarding this matter.

So you see, there is no substitute for 'having God' (apologies for the lack of a better term, and the Malay term is 'bertuhan'). Some people may not study, or even heard of, the Qur-an, but they have God in their lives - they are always mindful of God anytime and everytime, anywhere and everywhere. There is every possibility that God may choose to reveal correct guidance to them irrespective of whether they subscribe to the correct or wrong notions about God, or even serve the correct God or the wrong god(s). Past confessions in this forum and elsewhere will attest to the truth of this notion.

Studying the Qur-an does not make a Muslim. Many people study the Qur-an, but they never have God in their lives - they leave God out of the equation, even in their studies of the Qur-an. They thought they could know or understand by themselves as implied in 96:6-7. (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=96&verse=6).

So instead of coming closer to God they move further and further away. And instead of becoming peacemakers, they become 'objects of anger' ('almaghdoobi 3alayhim', 1:7).

So, it is now up to you, Man of Faith, to continue sharing what you have discovered to be the truth to you. I said the truth to you, because sometimes they are really just that, even though I do not rule out any possibility that they could be the truth to us as well.

Please don't ever get distracted by any harsh nor unethical remarks. God be with you, brother!

And as always, this is merely my personal comprehension. It might not necessarily be the truth to anyone here. So be careful with my posts. :)

Cheers!
mohammed noh
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 04:04:28 PM

Salam Man of Faith,

Please don't be sad. Please calm down, instead. Don't let one person disturb your day, when there are many others who appreciate and welcome what you are doing.

Allow me to quote an earlier post please:

Are you a living proof to my above statement? :)


But seriously, guys, when God is the Lord of comprehension in a person's study of the Qur-an, then little knowledge of Arabic might not be any hindrence whatsoever, as the meaning (in the language that person understands) might automatically be revealed upon the person while the person is reading the Arabic text. In other words, while reading the Arabic text, one might just see the meaning (in the language that he/she understands) on the Arabic text itself. And this is also one of the many forms of revelation. I hope this explains.

But, this is just one of the numerous methods that God could employ to make a person fully understand the Qur-an. And we learn about God teaching man in 96:5 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=96&verse=5).

In fact, even if a person doesn't know anything about the Qur-an, or even Islam, but the person establishes a correct 'relationship' (salat) with the correct 'God' (Allah), please refer to the hadith on Ibraheem's search for God with logic in Chapter 2, then God will surely provide the person with appropriate guidance.

But why appropriate guidance, you might ask. It depends on what we ask God for.

Any 'ommiy' (one without prior knowledge) could ask questions like: "God, who am I? God, where are You? God, am I correct to view this matter like this? God, please guide me to understand this matter correctly." Etc.

But students of the Qur-an like us all here, how many of us ask God for the correct meanings (as meant by God) for certain Arabic words/concepts in the Qur-an, like 'salat' or 'hajj' for example?

In the narratives of past prophets in the Qur-an, we also learn that God's guidance was usually revealed to them on the-need-to-know basis.

So likewise, the same basis is applicable to us too. Meaning, God may or may not reveal everything that we have asked for. Even comprehensions regarding the Chapters or concepts we come across in the Qur-an. Sometimes it is simply a test of patience. Sometimes it is about our level of closeness to God, thus our standing (makam). It might even be due to our carelessness towards past revelations. Or it might be that a revelation might not be appropriate. This is merely my personal comprehensions, but God knows best regarding this matter.

So you see, there is no substitute for 'having God' (apologies for the lack of a better term, and the Malay term is 'bertuhan'). Some people may not study, or even heard of, the Qur-an, but they have God in their lives - they are always mindful of God anytime and everytime, anywhere and everywhere. There is every possibility that God may choose to reveal correct guidance to them irrespective of whether they subscribe to the correct or wrong notions about God, or even serve the correct God or the wrong god(s). Past confessions in this forum and elsewhere will attest to the truth of this notion.

Studying the Qur-an does not make a Muslim. Many people study the Qur-an, but they never have God in their lives - they leave God out of the equation, even in their studies of the Qur-an. They thought they could know or understand by themselves as implied in 96:6-7. (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=96&verse=6).

So instead of coming closer to God they move further and further away. And instead of becoming peacemakers, they become 'objects of anger' ('almaghdoobi 3alayhim', 1:7).

So, it is now up to you, Man of Faith, to continue sharing what you have discovered to be the truth to you. I said the truth to you, because sometimes they are really just that, even though I do not rule out any possibility that they could be the truth to us as well.

Please don't ever get distracted by any harsh nor unethical remarks. God be with you, brother!

And as always, this is merely my personal comprehension. It might not necessarily be the truth to anyone here. So be careful with my posts. :)

Cheers!
mohammed noh

And herein lies the problem:

Quote
But students of the Qur-an like us all here, how many of us ask God for the correct meanings (as meant by God) for certain Arabic words/concepts in the Qur-an, like 'salat' or 'hajj' for example?

When "Quran only" invent their own meanings - which nicely side with Westernism and then they are asked for proof. . . then it God talking to them . . . sending private messages . . .

So how are these message any different than the Australian Jesus? Like him does everyone invent their own faith?
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on December 25, 2013, 04:18:01 PM
Now the Message is so simple that I could do without the Book too if I wanted. Are we arguing when Abraham could discover about and serve God while there was not yet revealed any scripture and his father and people was hardcore polytheist?

It is hard to believe that it is simple as what these people claimed to be... especially after considering these facts:

       - it took thousands of years for Islam to be perfected
       - many prophets have been killed
       - many muslims and believers have been killed
       - God took every detail to present us the facts and proof for us to ponder carefully each word
       - and ... and.. and.. and...

Suddenly the message is.. do good to others and we don't even need God's book

Something is missing in this argument...  and anything is possible if we don't know what we are talking about.. :laugh:




p.s. Abraham is a Prophet, and he discovered the path with God's help, before Islam has been perfected..  and there is no internet or google during that day... the authority is out of context.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on December 25, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
The truth.. wisdom (hikma) is not easy to acquire, and require us to be free (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337102#msg337102) form Shirk (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.230), 100% ... and sacrifice everything for Allah, including ourselves. There must be no interest for our own selves at all, even equal to a weight of an atom.

Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior.
(33:4)

Therefore, we do need Book of Allah, to guide and show how it is possible to accomplish all these things and still be able to live as others... to guide and show us how to balance all things, and guide us between what is just, and unjust... during our journey to find the al-Kitab and achieving wisdom (hikmah)

What is the  fundamental message of Islam, according to its priority or fiqh awwaliyah, step by step

Weight equally between maslahat and mudharat, from individual to society at large, weight and degree of damages etc...

Balancing all aspects and derive one simple conclusion

ie. not to cause harm to Islam, others, and ourselves

Do explain ... if you have, bring it here and we put into discussion.


To read the Qur'an and identify the
    - maslahat (self and others.. priority, not causing harm to others)
    - mudharat (self and others.. priority, not causing harm to ourselves)

      Then, to apply these rules, according to its priority (awwaliyah)...
      (Lesson: How trees grow from seeds, so as babies, and everything else in the universe)

      and to the
            ...right people
                  ...right place
                        ...right time

      So that our action can create "balance" in ourselves and the society.


Right Rule + Right People + Right Place + Right Time = Balance
                                                                      = Justice
                                                                      = Islam


The overall result should be, peace to every human beings and living creatures... and human unity, regardless of religions, race, traditions, gender, tribes, jins... etc.

Mankind was one single nation (2.213)

This is the job of a Khalifa, and path of a true Muslim and Believer.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 05:37:38 PM
Peace,

Thanks for your post, Joe Betik. It feels nice to hear that someone appreciates the hours I spend of my private time to channel my inspiration and realization about God and His Message. I could skip it, but I feel I have a responsibility and there is no real personal gain in what I am doing and I do not seek fame nor money but the reward is from God.

The realization with kitab is just a linguistic observation that I have made together with minor Arabic Knowledge and the present translations, and the fact they do not add up with kitab as physical book. Particularly and logically speaking when you hear Abraham talking about books like if he knew the future. Of course he spoke about the Message! A scripture was not revealed until quite long after him. Simply logical deduction and it requires practically no Arabic linguistic skill although I can read the Arabic script and understand a little, praise to God.

You are right about The Chimp. In fact I should feel sorry for him rather than be feeling anything else. Best is to ignore because such people are not willing to contemplate things anyway, but their minds are made up. It is easier to criticize than actually consider what you say in one way or another. The problem is that they can only believe with all the conjecture that their brethren came up with.

I found out about 'The Book' in the end of 2009 and I understood that it was from God, but I had had Faith in God to a certain degree even before that time. I ditched the polytheism I discovered quite fast because the reason I sought Islam was to get rid of the polytheism of Christianity and Jesus as the son of God, but when I discovered that Muhammad was revered like Jesus then I felt disappointed until I finally broke with traditionalism completely forever and sought the creed of father Abraham who was a very pious monotheist who never associated anything or anyone with God and served God only by inspiration because there was no book in his age and the people around him were hardcore polytheists. And he was a very goodly man too.

It is a shame not everyone realizes the simplicity of God's creed. So much work on this thread and even a diagram and references to 'The Book' (Quran) plus deep analysis what was really written even though mainly in English. You see in the Book that God narrates stories when the Messengers came to their respective people and what they said. Did they say more than serve God alone and do good deeds? There you have your Message. The whole Book could be summarized in one simple sentence if necessary and that is without conjecture because the Book says so and not me nor anyone else who would say it. It is God's words. My words are not my own but of the one who sent me and you and all the people.

You are right that God guides whom he pleases from among the people. It is those who honestly seek God's Nearness and Guidance, without associating any partners with Him, who will receive Knowledge and Wisdom, i.e understand the Message and thus eventually see Peace and Prosperity. I am amazed over how much I understand myself so verily we must praise The Lord for the enlightenment.

Of course people do not have to believe every little thing I say, but some things I have the stomach to swear by God that they are true in fact, and then I am very aware that I will be held responsible for what I ever have said or done. The kitab realization is something I say by God that it is true. It is as certain as that God is One and you should do good deeds. It also makes the Message less bound to books than it always has been regarded but rather the substance of it which carries most importance.

Our problem is that we are way too materialistic. We always need more material/proof. That way we always see things as concrete objects and so the kitab has become synonymous with something concrete rather than the substance of an abstract Message. There is really not much in terms of direct divine revelations sent down except the Criterion to Moses and the Book to Muhammad. The other things were written down by indirect inspiration from God and are not God's books in that regard. Refer to big part of Old Testament and New Testament for my idea. They are obviously many times not divine revelation. For example, incest by Lut or many exaggerated stories.

For most people 'The Ten Commandments' should be enough really. Be Good and serve God was the Message all the way. We are ahl al-kitab Joe Betik, anyone who was informed of the Message and there is no escape from the wrath of God if we break His covenant.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 25, 2013, 05:50:36 PM
Peace muslims,

The Message is as simple as doing good while believing. Why complicate things. This is what God uses like half the book to explain.

I did not literally mean throw away the Book but rather showed that even without it anyone can embrace God's Message, if they have an honest and good heart.

Well, the Message was perfected at the advent of the Book because it contains more details than any old revelation. Still it is not enough for some people but they still add lots of more conjecture. But how much has really changed in the fundamental Message from day 1? Like nothing at all. It is still believe in God while doing good and work against evil.

EDIT: And why were they killed? Because they told people to stop their evil and do good instead and believe in God alone! For that they were killed.

Peace out
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: muslims on December 25, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
It is true that the message is to do good things or "good deeds"..

          but what is "good deeds"?

          The term "good deeds" is not equal to every individual
          human conditions
          and to the society as a whole etc.

          Human beings and the society have different needs...

Therefore and if we try to explain or understand it deeper

          "good deeds" means "justice" to self, others and every individual in the society etc

          "Justice" requires "balance"

          Wherever there is "balance" ..

          there will be "justice"..

and Islam is about "balance" (Sunnatullah)..

          it is self evident in every living creatures and nature..

"balance" requires "wisdom" ..

          wisdom to be "just" and "balance" to self, others and all living creatures

"Wisdom" requires us to be free from Shirk and 100% reliance upon Allah (spirituality - consciousness)

              Good deeds requires...
                                                  = Justice .. justice requires...
                                                  = Balance .. balance requires..
                                                  = Wisdom ... wisdom requires..
                                                  = Allah's guidance (Quran) ... Allah's guidance requires..
                                                  = 100% reliance upon Allah .. reliance to Allah requires...
                                                  = Free from Shirk
                                                  = Free from Shirk = Obedience to Allah, not anyone else.. even ourselves



             "Say: Verily
             my prayers (system of our life)
             my sacrifice
             my life
             and my death
             are for Allah
             the Lord of All the Worlds."
             (6:162)


and if we seek from the Quran for guidance

This is the formula for achieving wisdom and it start with reciting verses from the Quran

     It is He who has sent among the unlettered
a Messenger from themselves
     
     (1) reciting to them His verses
     (starts with studying verses from the Quran.. then)
     (2) and purifying them     (free ourselves from Shirk.. then)
     (3) and teaching them the Book     (teaching ourselves... ie. practice the rules, obedience.. exemplary leadership.. then)
     (4) and wisdom     (learn how to balance our lives and society etc)
     although they were before in clear error     
     
(62.2 (http://quran.com/62/2))
     

This is how the society can be changed, and it is a step by step process for achieving wisdom...

These were my views. Allah knows best.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 25, 2013, 06:34:07 PM
Peace muslims,

The Message is as simple as doing good while believing. Why complicate things. This is what God uses like half the book to explain.

I did not literally mean throw away the Book but rather showed that even without it anyone can embrace God's Message, if they have an honest and good heart.

Well, the Message was perfected at the advent of the Book because it contains more details than any old revelation. Still it is not enough for some people but they still add lots of more conjecture. But how much has really changed in the fundamental Message from day 1? Like nothing at all. It is still believe in God while doing good and work against evil.

EDIT: And why were they killed? Because they told people to stop their evil and do good instead and believe in God alone! For that they were killed.

Peace out

Quote
that is because they follow conjecture

As admitted so do you . . .
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 26, 2013, 01:25:41 AM
Follow conjecture because you follow what it written in the Book and do not add more? What kind of idiocy is that to claim?

Go home to your brethren and stop being an fool around here.

Peace out
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 30, 2013, 04:13:56 PM
Before I continue

First I have to apologize for involving myself in futile discussions and polluting the thread (and other threads) and thus derailing it a little, but now it is time to continue on chapter 10 and see that we can continue to show that the Message is very simple and is about having Faith in God and serving Him well by being good and doing good, and showing a good character. After all this analyzed text it is yet weird that people argue otherwise. I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.

Chapter 10 Message check

Remember I have my own interpretation of The Book and thus it can seem different from standard translations. It is a modified Monotheist translation 2013 unless otherwise told. There is little change except for some words which I interpret a bit controversially, but I have also carefully thought this all through and over a longer period of time.

10:1 ALR, these are the signs of the Message of Wisdom.

To demonstrate my 'kitab' theory.

10:2 Is it a surprise for the people who We inspired a man from among them: ?Warn the people and give good news to those who believe, that they will have a footing of truth with their Lord.? The rejecters said: ?This is clearly magic!?

In the light of our previous discussion and what we have here; the Message is pretty clear.

10:3 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?

Red: Remember as that this Book is not really the beginning of the Message but a Reminder of it. Yet people think there is something which separates the previous part of the Message at the advent of this Book.
Blue: As usual people abuse this phrase.

10:4 To Him is your return, all of you, for the promise of God is true. He initiates the creation then He returns it; to recompense with justice those who have believed and have done good works. As for those who have rejected, they will have a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.

Red: Anyone of those who had other Messengers and heed the Message of this Book or the previous Message. They are all the same Message. Cannot you see that there is not much changing in God's Message except that God perfected the system at the advent of this Book as before there were no collected scripture but in the 7th century there came a "hadith" from God, like something of a collector's edition, i.e. what was important from all the Messengers and the narrations are summarized in it and you got God's own expressions in the meantime, and not only the warnings and news from the mouths of the Messengers. Compare this Book to the brief inscriptions given to Moses millennia earlier.

10:5 He is the One who has made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the signs for a people who know.
10:6 In the difference between the night and the day and what God has created in the heavens and the earth are signs for a people who are aware.


Red: A big portion of The Book goes to give examples of what God has created that we may reflect. As I mentioned before God uses most part of The Book to mercifully implying to convince the reader that He is really real if one thinks about it.

10:7 As for those who do not wish to meet Us, and they are content with the worldly life, and they feel secure by it, and they are unaware of Our signs.
10:8 To these will be the destiny of the Fire for what they earned.
10:9 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.


Red: Mostly to those who probably are atheists or hypocrite believers who only misbehave and do not really believe.
Blue: Why do you think God writes only (1) believe and (2) do good then that He will guide them on a straight path? That is what the Messengers proclaim when they come around. This is why. People argue about tons of extra-religious stuff when the Message is so simple. Rely on the Lord and serve Him to the best of your ability and show your good character.

10:15 And when Our clear signs were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said: ?Bring a book other than this, or change it!? Say: ?It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!?
10:16 Say: ?If God had willed, I would not have recited it to you, nor would you have known about it. I have been residing among you for nearly a lifetime before this; do you not comprehend??
10:17 Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.


Red: Book, not Qur'an, if you translate into English.
Blue: His contemporaries could possibly have asked him to change The Book so that it added the pagan rituals Muslims world-over are anyways performing after Muhammad left this world. What Muhammad did not write down that they required they themselves wrote down in the mass of hearsay books later on.

10:19 The people were but one nation, then they differed. And had it not been for a previous command from your Lord, the matter would have been immediately judged between them for what they differed.
10:20 And they say: ?If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord.? Say: ?The future is with God, so wait, and I will wait with you.?


Red: The Messengers did not know the future.
Blue: Obviously the Message has a tendency to split people, but it is mainly due to all resulting idolization and conjecture. People likely did not believe Muhammad because God suddenly sent an Arabic Prophet instead of the previous ones who spoke a different language. And history is prone to repeat itself if it came another Messenger in yet another language. Heed my words.

10:22 He is the One who carries you on land and on the sea. And when you are on the ships and We drive them with a good wind which they rejoice with, a strong gust comes to them and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are finished, they implore God with loyalty and devotion to His system: ?If You save us from this, we will be of the thankful.?
10:23 But when He saves them, they then traverse through the land with injustice. ?O people, what you seek out is only the luxury of this worldly life, then to Us is your return and We will inform you of all that you had done.?


Red: When only God can save them then they implore God.
Blue: But when there is no constant reminder of God then the majority forget about God. Note the injustice.

10:25 God calls to the abode of peace, and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
10:26 For those who (2) do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.


Red: Note those whom HE wishes.
Blue: And that is those who ... what? Yes, you are right, those who do good, nothing particularly complicated for good souls, and of course have Faith in God.

10:27 As for those who earn evil, the recompense of evil will be evil like it, and they will be humiliated. They do not have anyone to help them from God. It is as if their faces have been covered by a piece of darkness from the night. These are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
10:28 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists: ?Stop where you are, you and your partners,? then We will separate between them, and their partners will say: ?It was not us that you served!?
10:29 ?God is enough as a witness between us and you, that we were unaware of you serving us.?


Red: Injustice, dogma and zealotry is among evil things.
Blue: It is obvious that it is not about stone statues or other such materialistic idols God is talking about here but individuals that people idolized such as popular mullahs and other spiritual leaders, or Muhammad or Jesus..
Green: And of course they have no link to this world once they were gone. They are completely unaware of this world after they proclaimed the Message.

These people probably also generated tons of conjecture and attributed it to these individuals.

10:31 Say: ?Who provides for you from the heavens and the earth? Who possesses the hearing and the eyesight? And who brings the living out from the dead and brings the dead out from the living? And who manages all affairs?? They will say: ?God.? Say: ?Will you not be righteous!?
10:32 Such is God, your true Lord. So what is after the truth except straying! Why then do you turn away?
10:33 It was thus that the command of your Lord came against those who were wicked, for they did not believe.


Red: Is it not obvious that most of all that God implies in The Book is for people to believe?

10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the Truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
10:37 This Book could not have been produced without God; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and to give details of the Message in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
10:38 Or do they say: ?He has invented it!? Say: ?Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.?
10:39 No, they have lied about that which they had no Knowledge, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!
10:40 And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.


Red: I cannot understand that people do not see that Qur'an is Book and Kitab is Message in the context of The Book.
Blue: The same would be said if there came a revelation in English as of today, for example.
Green: Absolutely most everyone would use the expression above if a Messenger suddenly emerged in this age with a refreshment of the Message in its pristine form, except for a few.
Purple: If there came yet another reminder of the Message today many people would reject it, but a few would believe. It is always few people who adhere to the Message and has always been.

10:41 And if they deny you, then say: ?I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.?
10:42 And there are some of them who listen to you; but can you make the deaf hear, if they do not comprehend?
10:43 And there are some of them who look at you; but can you guide the blind, if they do not see?


Red: It obviously falls down on the deeds again (2) and this only highlights its importance in God's system. Do good and not bad.

10:59 Say: ?Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?? Say: ?Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God??

Red: All the stuff in this world that people deem haram or halal without God's authorization goes under this.

10:61 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Book, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.

Red: I.e God is aware of everything you do.

10:62 For the allies of God, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
10:63 Those who have (1) believed and are aware.


10:78 They said: ?Have you come to us to turn us away from that which we found our fathers upon, and so that you two would have greatness in the land? We will not believe in you.?

Red: Most people would say the same today to defend the traditions.

10:83 But none believed in Moses from his people except some from their descendants, because of their fear from Pharaoh and his commanders that he would persecute them. Pharaoh was high in the land, and he was of the tyrants.

Red: They were more afraid of Pharaoh which was visible than in God which they could not see. The same could be related to today in certain places many people are often afraid of expressing their true Faith in fear of persecution.

10:87 And We inspired to Moses and his brother: ?You shall seek out homes for your people in Egypt; and leave your homes to be a focal point, and hold the Communion. And give good news to the believers.?
10:88 And Moses said: ?Our Lord, you have given Pharaoh and his commanders adornments and wealth in this worldly life so that they will misguide from Your path. Our Lord, wipe out their wealth and bring grief to their hearts; for they will not believe until they see the painful retribution.?
10:89 He said: ?Your call has been responded to, so keep straight and do not follow the path of those who do not know.?


Moses established a strong bond to God together with some faithful people and held a Communion in which he prayed for this and God granted him his wish.

10:90 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said: ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted.?
10:91 ?Now you say this? While before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!?
10:92 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!


Red: Pharaoh held one final Communion, perhaps the first in his life and God clearly responded in such a way He normally only does to those who believe in God and frequently do Communion and have reached a strong bonding. This was because the next moment God made the flood drown the disobedient Pharaoh anyway so thus he left the world.

10:94 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been acknowledging the Message from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.

Red: I daringly throw in a challenging translation here based on the word يَقْرَءُونَ root تقر which means acknowledge. There is a dog buried somewhere here in the understanding of the language, when you simply cut out a few letters it means acknowledge. I translated accordingly. Now I repeat that I use my own logic here and a bit of finesse although you know I am not an expert in Arabic. You see how much distortion there is in the Message due to interpretation misses. I had difficulties proving my Message theory on this verse so I begun to analyze the verse and discovered this which might be interesting to some people.

10:99 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
10:100 And it is not for a soul to believe except with the permission of God. And He lets taint those who do not comprehend.
10:101 Say: ?Look at all that is in the heavens and the earth.? But what good are the signs and warnings to a people who do not believe?


What is the intention of the Message really if you study it with an open heart? Personally I do this work that someone may be enlightened but I am not here to argue with those who are here to argue and if what I say does not make any sense then disregard it. But if you studied my thread from the start and applied some thinking to it I hope you understand that I am not only writing a lot of gibberish but somewhat useful things in the simple manner that the Message is.

10:108 Say: ?O people, the Truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is being guided for himself, and whoever is misguided will remain so, and I am not a caretaker over you.?
10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.


Red:Yes. The Message that was proclaimed in The Book was the Truth that came to the people and there Muhammad's responsibility ended.
Blue: This applies to anyone who holds Communion and establishes a tie to God. Else why use the conjunction 'and' (و) after the preceding verse.

Hence we see that even the Arabic 'noob' can interpret the Message. It has nothing to do with linguistic skill. I have fine experts who translated the verses so I can go in like in program code of a computer application and just analyze the code. Simple as that. If I break down the words into morphemes then they still carry their root meaning which other words are built upon and they generally do not very much from the root or at least the same fundamental meaning. As in the example of 10:94 I am certain that the root of the word given example of means what I translated it to without complicating things and you see that it wonderfully suits the context, also considered you cannot read a Message in that regard, but you can acknowledge it. And I learned something new myself of Arabic grammar in the terms of يقر vs تقر and their usage which might be useful for other encounters of words. In 10:94 الْكِتَابَ (al-ketaab) could logically not been a book since there was no real book from before, but Messengers among them who brought the Message.

Dare to challenge what you know and see it in a new Light. I understand that my 10:94 interpretation seems a bit far-fetched, but give it some thought and try to divide the morphemes of it and seek the root. When I saw this new Light of interpretation I have understood that people do not know as much about The Book as they claim. Not saying I know everything, but it gets clearer at least, and I know but very little Arabic, although I spot-analyze the text where I deem it necessary to check whether an interpreted meaning does really add up. None of the traditional understandings of يَقْرَءُونَ الْكِتَابَ add up for me. But changing the literal meaning of 'ketaab' and 'تقر/يقر ' gives a new Light to it.

(I am aware that my translation of كتب as Message does not match with verses like 2:282 since it implies on writing something down with traditional understanding and I am working on this with my limited Arabic skill. Totally frustrating when linguistically it does seem to add up coherently in the fluency of text. However, I have noted that the translation of 2:282 and surrounding verses are very lackluster and I have a weird feeling that there is something fishy here. In fact I am very suspicious about 2:282-286 as pertaining to the Message. Sorry now I think I am forced to learn Arabic for sure because I sense corruption.)

I hope you will not cast me out as a Rashad Khalifa copycat  :&

God bless you and good night
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on December 30, 2013, 04:38:56 PM
Before I continue

First I have to apologize for involving myself in futile discussions and polluting the thread (and other threads) and thus derailing it a little, but now it is time to continue on chapter 10 and see that we can continue to show that the Message is very simple and is about having Faith in God and serving Him well by being good and doing good, and showing a good character. After all this analyzed text it is yet weird that people argue otherwise. I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.

Chapter 10 Message check

Remember I have my own interpretation of The Book and thus it can seem different from standard translations. It is a modified Monotheist translation 2013 unless otherwise told. There is little change except for some words which I interpret a bit controversially, but I have also carefully thought this all through and over a longer period of time.

10:1 ALR, these are the signs of the Message of Wisdom.

To demonstrate my 'kitab' theory.

10:2 Is it a surprise for the people who We inspired a man from among them: ?Warn the people and give good news to those who believe, that they will have a footing of truth with their Lord.? The rejecters said: ?This is clearly magic!?

In the light of our previous discussion and what we have here; the Message is pretty clear.

10:3 Your Lord is God who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He settled upon the Throne; He manages all affairs. There is no intercessor except after His permission. Such is God your Lord, so serve Him. Would you not remember?

Red: Remember as that this Book is not really the beginning of the Message but a Reminder of it. Yet people think there is something which separates the previous part of the Message at the advent of this Book.
Blue: As usual people abuse this phrase.

10:4 To Him is your return, all of you, for the promise of God is true. He initiates the creation then He returns it; to recompense with justice those who have believed and have done good works. As for those who have rejected, they will have a boiling drink, and a painful retribution for what they had rejected.

Red: Anyone of those who had other Messengers and heed the Message of this Book or the previous Message. They are all the same Message. Cannot you see that there is not much changing in God's Message except that God perfected the system at the advent of this Book as before there were no collected scripture but in the 7th century there came a "hadith" from God, like something of a collector's edition, i.e. what was important from all the Messengers and the narrations are summarized in it and you got God's own expressions in the meantime, and not only the warnings and news from the mouths of the Messengers. Compare this Book to the brief inscriptions given to Moses millennia earlier.

10:5 He is the One who has made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and He has measured its phases; that you may know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except with the truth. He clarifies the signs for a people who know.
10:6 In the difference between the night and the day and what God has created in the heavens and the earth are signs for a people who are aware.


Red: A big portion of The Book goes to give examples of what God has created that we may reflect. As I mentioned before God uses most part of The Book to mercifully implying to convince the reader that He is really real if one thinks about it.

10:7 As for those who do not wish to meet Us, and they are content with the worldly life, and they feel secure by it, and they are unaware of Our signs.
10:8 To these will be the destiny of the Fire for what they earned.
10:9 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, their Lord will guide them by their faith. Rivers will flow beneath them in gardens of bliss.


Red: Mostly to those who probably are atheists or hypocrite believers who only misbehave and do not really believe.
Blue: Why do you think God writes only (1) believe and (2) do good then that He will guide them on a straight path? That is what the Messengers proclaim when they come around. This is why. People argue about tons of extra-religious stuff when the Message is so simple. Rely on the Lord and serve Him to the best of your ability and show your good character.

10:15 And when Our clear signs were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said: ?Bring a book other than this, or change it!? Say: ?It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!?
10:16 Say: ?If God had willed, I would not have recited it to you, nor would you have known about it. I have been residing among you for nearly a lifetime before this; do you not comprehend??
10:17 Who is more wicked than he who invents lies about God or denies His revelations? The criminals will never succeed.


Red: Book, not Qur'an, if you translate into English.
Blue: His contemporaries could possibly have asked him to change The Book so that it added the pagan rituals Muslims world-over are anyways performing after Muhammad left this world. What Muhammad did not write down that they required they themselves wrote down in the mass of hearsay books later on.

10:19 The people were but one nation, then they differed. And had it not been for a previous command from your Lord, the matter would have been immediately judged between them for what they differed.
10:20 And they say: ?If only a sign was sent down to him from His Lord.? Say: ?The future is with God, so wait, and I will wait with you.?


Red: The Messengers did not know the future.
Blue: Obviously the Message has a tendency to split people, but it is mainly due to all resulting idolization and conjecture. People likely did not believe Muhammad because God suddenly sent an Arabic Prophet instead of the previous ones who spoke a different language. And history is prone to repeat itself if it came another Messenger in yet another language. Heed my words.

10:22 He is the One who carries you on land and on the sea. And when you are on the ships and We drive them with a good wind which they rejoice with, a strong gust comes to them and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are finished, they implore God with loyalty and devotion to His system: ?If You save us from this, we will be of the thankful.?
10:23 But when He saves them, they then traverse through the land with injustice. ?O people, what you seek out is only the luxury of this worldly life, then to Us is your return and We will inform you of all that you had done.?


Red: When only God can save them then they implore God.
Blue: But when there is no constant reminder of God then the majority forget about God. Note the injustice.

10:25 God calls to the abode of peace, and He guides those whom He wishes to a straight path.
10:26 For those who (2) do good will be good and more, and their faces will not be darkened or humiliated. These are the people of the Paradise, in it they will abide.


Red: Note those whom HE wishes.
Blue: And that is those who ... what? Yes, you are right, those who do good, nothing particularly complicated for good souls, and of course have Faith in God.

10:27 As for those who earn evil, the recompense of evil will be evil like it, and they will be humiliated. They do not have anyone to help them from God. It is as if their faces have been covered by a piece of darkness from the night. These are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.
10:28 And on the Day We gather them all, then We will say to those who were polytheists: ?Stop where you are, you and your partners,? then We will separate between them, and their partners will say: ?It was not us that you served!?
10:29 ?God is enough as a witness between us and you, that we were unaware of you serving us.?


Red: Injustice, dogma and zealotry is among evil things.
Blue: It is obvious that it is not about stone statues or other such materialistic idols God is talking about here but individuals that people idolized such as popular mullahs and other spiritual leaders, or Muhammad or Jesus..
Green: And of course they have no link to this world once they were gone. They are completely unaware of this world after they proclaimed the Message.

These people probably also generated tons of conjecture and attributed it to these individuals.

10:31 Say: ?Who provides for you from the heavens and the earth? Who possesses the hearing and the eyesight? And who brings the living out from the dead and brings the dead out from the living? And who manages all affairs?? They will say: ?God.? Say: ?Will you not be righteous!?
10:32 Such is God, your true Lord. So what is after the truth except straying! Why then do you turn away?
10:33 It was thus that the command of your Lord came against those who were wicked, for they did not believe.


Red: Is it not obvious that most of all that God implies in The Book is for people to believe?

10:36 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the Truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
10:37 This Book could not have been produced without God; it is to authenticate what is between his hands, and to give details of the Message in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
10:38 Or do they say: ?He has invented it!? Say: ?Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.?
10:39 No, they have lied about that which they had no Knowledge, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!
10:40 And there are some of them who believe in it, and some of them do not believe in it. Your Lord is better aware of the transgressors.


Red: I cannot understand that people do not see that Qur'an is Book and Kitab is Message in the context of The Book.
Blue: The same would be said if there came a revelation in English as of today, for example.
Green: Absolutely most everyone would use the expression above if a Messenger suddenly emerged in this age with a refreshment of the Message in its pristine form, except for a few.
Purple: If there came yet another reminder of the Message today many people would reject it, but a few would believe. It is always few people who adhere to the Message and has always been.

10:41 And if they deny you, then say: ?I have my deeds, and you have your deeds. You are innocent from what I do, and I am innocent from what you do.?
10:42 And there are some of them who listen to you; but can you make the deaf hear, if they do not comprehend?
10:43 And there are some of them who look at you; but can you guide the blind, if they do not see?


Red: It obviously falls down on the deeds again (2) and this only highlights its importance in God's system. Do good and not bad.

10:59 Say: ?Have you seen what God has sent down to you from provisions, then you have made some of it forbidden and some lawful?? Say: ?Did God authorize you, or do you invent lies about God??

Red: All the stuff in this world that people deem haram or halal without God's authorization goes under this.

10:61 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Book, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is in a clear record.

Red: I.e God is aware of everything you do.

10:62 For the allies of God, there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
10:63 Those who have (1) believed and are aware.


10:78 They said: ?Have you come to us to turn us away from that which we found our fathers upon, and so that you two would have greatness in the land? We will not believe in you.?

Red: Most people would say the same today to defend the traditions.

10:83 But none believed in Moses from his people except some from their descendants, because of their fear from Pharaoh and his commanders that he would persecute them. Pharaoh was high in the land, and he was of the tyrants.

Red: They were more afraid of Pharaoh which was visible than in God which they could not see. The same could be related to today in certain places many people are often afraid of expressing their true Faith in fear of persecution.

10:87 And We inspired to Moses and his brother: ?You shall seek out homes for your people in Egypt; and leave your homes to be a focal point, and hold the Communion. And give good news to the believers.?
10:88 And Moses said: ?Our Lord, you have given Pharaoh and his commanders adornments and wealth in this worldly life so that they will misguide from Your path. Our Lord, wipe out their wealth and bring grief to their hearts; for they will not believe until they see the painful retribution.?
10:89 He said: ?Your call has been responded to, so keep straight and do not follow the path of those who do not know.?


Moses established a strong bond to God together with some faithful people and held a Communion in which he prayed for this and God granted him his wish.

10:90 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said: ?I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted.?
10:91 ?Now you say this? While before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!?
10:92 ?This day, We will preserve your body, so that you become a sign for those after you.? But most of the people are unaware of Our signs!


Red: Pharaoh held one final Communion, perhaps the first in his life and God clearly responded in such a way He normally only does to those who believe in God and frequently do Communion and have reached a strong bonding. This was because the next moment God made the flood drown the disobedient Pharaoh anyway so thus he left the world.

10:94 If you are in doubt regarding what We have sent down to you, then ask those who have been acknowledging the Message from before you. The truth has come to you from your Lord, so do not be of those who doubt.

Red: I daringly throw in a challenging translation here based on the word يَقْرَءُونَ root تقر which means acknowledge. There is a dog buried somewhere here in the understanding of the language, when you simply cut out a few letters it means acknowledge. I translated accordingly. Now I repeat that I use my own logic here and a bit of finesse although you know I am not an expert in Arabic. You see how much distortion there is in the Message due to interpretation misses. I had difficulties proving my Message theory on this verse so I begun to analyze the verse and discovered this which might be interesting to some people.

10:99 And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
10:100 And it is not for a soul to believe except with the permission of God. And He lets taint those who do not comprehend.
10:101 Say: ?Look at all that is in the heavens and the earth.? But what good are the signs and warnings to a people who do not believe?


What is the intention of the Message really if you study it with an open heart? Personally I do this work that someone may be enlightened but I am not here to argue with those who are here to argue and if what I say does not make any sense then disregard it. But if you studied my thread from the start and applied some thinking to it I hope you understand that I am not only writing a lot of gibberish but somewhat useful things in the simple manner that the Message is.

10:108 Say: ?O people, the Truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is being guided for himself, and whoever is misguided will remain so, and I am not a caretaker over you.?
10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.


Red:Yes. The Message that was proclaimed in The Book was the Truth that came to the people and there Muhammad's responsibility ended.
Blue: This applies to anyone who holds Communion and establishes a tie to God. Else why use the conjunction 'and' (و) after the preceding verse.

Hence we see that even the Arabic 'noob' can interpret the Message. It has nothing to do with linguistic skill. I have fine experts who translated the verses so I can go in like in program code of a computer application and just analyze the code. Simple as that. If I break down the words into morphemes then they still carry their root meaning which other words are built upon and they generally do not very much from the root or at least the same fundamental meaning. As in the example of 10:94 I am certain that the root of the word given example of means what I translated it to without complicating things and you see that it wonderfully suits the context, also considered you cannot read a Message in that regard, but you can acknowledge it. And I learned something new myself of Arabic grammar in the terms of يقر vs تقر and their usage which might be useful for other encounters of words. In 10:94 الْكِتَابَ (al-ketaab) could logically not been a book since there was no real book from before, but Messengers among them who brought the Message.

Dare to challenge what you know and see it in a new Light. I understand that my 10:94 interpretation seems a bit far-fetched, but give it some thought and try to divide the morphemes of it and seek the root. When I saw this new Light of interpretation I have understood that people do not know as much about The Book as they claim. Not saying I know everything, but it gets clearer at least, and I know but very little Arabic, although I spot-analyze the text where I deem it necessary to check whether an interpreted meaning does really add up. None of the traditional understandings of يَقْرَءُونَ الْكِتَابَ add up for me. But changing the literal meaning of 'ketaab' and 'تقر/يقر ' gives a new Light to it.

(I am aware that my translation of كتب as Message does not match with verses like 2:282 since it implies on writing something down with traditional understanding and I am working on this with my limited Arabic skill. Totally frustrating when linguistically it does seem to add up coherently in the fluency of text. However, I have noted that the translation of 2:282 and surrounding verses are very lackluster and I have a weird feeling that there is something fishy here. In fact I am very suspicious about 2:282-286 as pertaining to the Message. Sorry now I think I am forced to learn Arabic for sure because I sense corruption.)

I hope you will not cast me out as a Rashad Khalifa copycat  :&

God bless you and good night

Quote
I will try to concentrate on the Message from now on and less on those who do not contemplate the Message but rather argue on nonsense.

You really are . . . aren't you?

- -

It is an essential and basic question . . . who is sending you messages? Something which you have not been able to answer. But are still trying to push nonsense about. 
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on December 31, 2013, 06:20:46 PM
Before I continue, again

Okay. Last time we went through chapter 10 and I did some possibly amazing discoveries, but I am not yet ready to reevaluate the last verses of chapter 2. I only consider something suspicious at this time. It could also be that the verses are completely misunderstood from the original Arabic. It does not affect my understanding that 'ketaab' means an abstract Message in the context of The Book. Anyway, form your own opinion in case you do not agree or choose to follow the best and ignore the rest. We will return to that topic at a later time. The whole point with this thread; to repeat it once more, is to discuss the chain of Faith, i.e. Nearness and Guidance which leads to Knowledge and Wisdom through the Grace of God and thus eventually lead to Peace and Prosperity and absolute certainty. As you might have understood by now I have to proclaim the Message to be able to help someone approach the chain of Faith as in to know what the Message means. Like I said, and the Message says: (1) Believe in God and (2) be of a goodly character. It is as simple as that basically.

Chapter 11 Message check

11:1 ALR, a Message in which its revelations have been made lawgiving, then detailed, from One who is Wise, Expert.
11:2 ?That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him a warner and a bearer of good news.?
11:3 ?And seek forgiveness from your Lord, then repent to Him; He will provide you with good provisions to an appointed term. And He bestows His grace upon those who are of grace.? And if they turn away: ?Indeed, I fear for you the retribution of a great day!?


Red: This is practically the Message; (1) Faith in the One and (2) seek forgiveness and repent, and reform.
Blue: The limitation of the Messenger's duty. The obedience to the Messenger so often abused in The Book is basically to "hearken unto the Message".

11:11 Except for those who are (1) patient and (2) do good works; these will have a pardon, and a great reward.

Red: This is a test of Faith and often comes to the person who seeks the Truth that they might not see results in their service of God until quite a long while and many people who are not steadfast eventually turn away from God because they did not have patience to see that God is really real with their own intuition.

11:17 For those who are on a clarity from their Lord, and are followed by a testimony from Him; and before it was the Message of Moses, a beacon and a mercy; they will believe in it. And whoever rejects it from among the Confederates, then the Fire is his meeting place. So do not be in any doubt about it. It is the truth from your Lord, but most of the people do not believe.

11:23 Those who (1) believe and (2) do good works, and are humble towards their Lord; they are the dwellers of the Paradise, in it they will remain.

Believe and do good, believe and do good, believe and do good; how many times have you done good this last year?



When Noah came with the Message to his people (Believe (1) and (2) do good):

11:25 And We had sent Noah to his people: (3) ?I am to you a clear warner!?
11:26 (1) ?That you serve none except God. I fear for you the retribution of a painful day.?
11:27 The leaders who rejected from among his people said: (-3, -1) ?We do not see you except as a human being like us, and we see that only the lowest among our people who have no opinion have followed you. And we do not see a thing that makes you better than us; in fact, we think you are liars.?
11:28 He said: ?O my people, do you see that should I be upon a clarity from my Lord, and He has given me a mercy from Himself, that you may be blinded to it? Shall we compel you to it while in-fact you hate it??
11:29 ?And my people, I do not ask you for money, my wage is from God. Nor will I turn away those who believe, for they will meet their Lord. But I see that you are a people who are ignorant.?
11:30 ?And my people, who will give me victory against God if I turn them away? Will you not remember!?
11:31 ?Nor do I say to you that I have the treasures of God, nor do I know the future, nor do I say that I am an angel, (-2) nor do I say to those whom your eyes look down upon that God will not grant them any good. God is more aware of what is in their souls; in such case I would be among the wicked.?
11:32 They said: ?O Noah, you have argued with us, and continued arguing with us, so bring us what you promise us if you are of the truthful ones.?
11:33 He said: ?It is God who will bring it to you if He wishes; you will not have any escape.?
11:34 ?And my advice will not benefit you if I wanted to advise you and God wanted that you should go astray. He is your Lord, and to Him you will return.?


< -- >

11:45 And Noah called on his Lord, and he said: ?My Lord, my son is from my family, and your promise is the truth, and you are the Wisest of all Judges.?
11:46 He said: ?O Noah, he is not from your family, he was of an unrighteous deed, so do not ask what you have no knowledge of. I advise you not to be of the ignorant.?
11:47 He said: ?My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You what I do not have knowledge of. And if You do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I will be of the losers!?
11:48 It was said: ?O Noah, descend in peace from Us and blessings upon you and upon nations to come from those with you. And nations whom We will give enjoyment, then a painful retribution will reach them from Us.?


The Message is pretty clear what God wanted to have conveyed.

11:49 This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. Neither did you nor your people know this, so be patient; the ending will be for the righteous.

Orange: The audience of The Book is the people about 1400 years ago no matter what people claim. The Message is just the same as before or nowadays, but it is just an observation worth noticing. It was likely one of the miracles that Muhammad the Prophet had such Knowledge of things which the previous receivers of the Message kept to themselves as The Book clarifies.



11:50 And to ?Aad was sent their brother Hud. He said: (1) ?My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him; you are simply conjecturing.?
11:51 ?My people, I do not ask you for any wage, my wage is from the One who has initiated me. Will you not comprehend??
11:52 ?And my people, seek forgiveness from your Lord, then repent to Him; He will send the sky to you abundantly, and He will add might to your might. So do not turn away as criminals.?
11:53 They said: ?O Hud, you have not come to us with any proof, nor will we leave our gods based on what you say. We will not believe in you.?
11:54 ?All we can say is that perhaps some of our gods have seized you with evil.? He said: ?I make God my witness, and all of you witness, that I am innocent of what you have set up.?
11:55 ?Besides Him, so plan against me all of you, then do not give me respite.?
11:56 (1) * ?I have placed my trust in God, my Lord and your Lord. There is not a creature except He will seize it by its forelock. My Lord is on a straight path.?
11:57 ?So, if you turn away, then I have delivered what I have been sent to you with, and my Lord will bring after you a people who are not like you; and you cannot harm Him the least. My Lord is Guardian over all things.?
11:58 And when Our command came, We saved Hud and those who had believed with him by a mercy from Us, and We saved them from a mighty retribution.
11:59 Such was the case of ?Aad. They disregarded the revelations of their Lord, and they disobeyed His messengers, and they followed the command of every stubborn tyrant.


* Famous quote, is it not?

Green: Their error was that they listened to the conjecture blindly and they did not use their own brains. I swear that the same thing would happen again if there was a Messenger coming around.

It seems that the people have a slightly different warning they need if there came a revelation from God today as the same kind of polytheism is not the main problem today but rather the tons of conjecture associated with the system of God. However, we must remember that some people still believe that God has associates such as Jesus and Buddha etc. And they believe Jesus is a mediator between God and the people and that Jesus can intercede. Sadly Muhammad has nearly this status too as in certain groups Muhammad has this power of intercession. Most probably they would use the Messengers they have taken as lords to argue against you if you would become a Messenger and proclaim the Message, and they would defend their tons of conjecture.



11:61 And to Thamud was their brother Saleh. He said: (1) ?O my people, serve God, you have no god besides Him. He has established you from the earth, and has made you settle in it; so seek His forgiveness, then repent to Him. My Lord is Near, Responsive.?
11:62 They said: ?O Saleh, you were well liked among us before this. Do you prohibit us from serving what our fathers served? We are in serious doubt as to what you are inviting us.?
11:63 He said: ?O my people, do you see that should I be upon a clarity from my Lord, and He has given me a mercy from Himself. Who would then support me against God if I disobey Him? You would only increase me in loss!?
11:64 ?And O my people, this is the camel of God, in her you have a sign. So leave her to eat from God?s earth freely, and do not harm her, or else a close retribution will take you.?
11:65 But they slaughtered her. So he said: ?Take enjoyment in your dwellings for three days. This is a promise not to be denied.?
11:66 So, when Our command came, We saved Saleh and those who had believed with him by a mercy from Us and against the disgrace of that day. Your Lord is the Powerful, the Noble.
11:67 And those who had wronged were taken by the scream, thus they became lifeless in their homes.
11:68 It is as if they had never lived there. For Thamud (-1) rejected their Lord. So away with Thamud.

So what is the Message really?



11:69 And Our messengers came to Abraham with good news, they said: ?Peace? He said: ?Peace,? and he made no delay in bringing a roasted calf.
11:70 But when he saw that their hands did not go towards it, he mistrusted them, and he began to have fear of them. They said: ?Have no fear, we have been sent to the people of Lot.?
11:71 And his wife was standing, so she laughed when We gave her the good news of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob.
11:72 She said: ?O my! Shall I give birth when I am an old woman, and here is my husband an old man? This is indeed a strange thing!?
11:73 They said: ?Do you wonder at the decree of God? The mercy of God and blessings are upon you O people of the Sanctuary. He is Praiseworthy, Glorious.?
11:74 So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot.
11:75 Abraham was compassionate, kind, obedient.
11:76 ?O Abraham, turn away from this. The command of your Lord has been passed, and a retribution that will not be turned back is coming for them.?


Green: Abraham's wife must have had a slightly weak Faith.
Purple: We must remember that Messengers can come in the form as controllers/angels and thus we may not immediately understand that they are just that. It is something to keep in mind although a minimal minority of the Believers will ever have the chance in this life.

Abraham was surely a good role model of a staunch Believer in God and as a personality. It is frequently narrated that Abraham is a very good example. He used the roasted calf as a test for the guests that came to his house.



11:77 And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved by them and he felt discomfort for them and he said: ?This is a distressful day.?
11:78 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said: (2) ?My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no wise man among you??
11:79 They said: ?You know we have no interest in your daughters, and (-2) you are aware of what we want!?
11:80 He said: ?If only I had strength against you, or I could find for myself some powerful support.?
11:81 They said: ?O Lot, we are messengers of your Lord; they will not be able to harm you, so travel with your family during the cover of the night and let not any of you look back except for your wife, she will be afflicted with what they will be afflicted. Their scheduled time will be the morning. Is the morning not near??
11:82 So when Our command came, We made its highest part become its lowest, and We rained on it with hardened fiery projectiles.
11:83 Marked from your Lord, and they are never far from the wicked.


Although "sodomy" is the crime in this narration it can hardly be the only problem since also Lot's wife is killed. I am not sure if it has to do with that Lot's wife was told not to look back when they ran for the mountains but she did that and was immediately killed. But here you see that Lot knew even before that she was going to be killed. Sodomy can only be part of the story.



11:84 And to Midyan was their brother Shu?ayb, he said: ?My people, (1) serve God, you have no god besides Him, and (2) do not give short in the measure and the weight. I see you in prosperity, and I fear for you the retribution of a day that is surrounding.?
11:85 ?And my people, give (2) full in the measure and the weight equitably, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting.?
11:86 ?What will remain for you with God is far better if you are believers. And I am not a guardian over you.?
11:87 They said: ?O Shu?ayb, does your Communion order you that we (-1) leave what our fathers served, or (-2) that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!?
11:88 He said: ?O my people, do you see that if I am on clear evidence from my Lord, and He has provided me with good provision from Him, (2) then I would not want to contradict by doing what I am prohibiting you from. I only want to make right what I can, and my guidance is only with God. To Him I place my trust, and to Him I repent.?
11:89 ?And my people, let not your hatred towards me incriminate you that you suffer the fate of what afflicted the people of Noah, or the people of Hud, or the people of Saleh; and the people of Lot were not far off from you.?
11:90 ?And seek forgiveness from your Lord then repent to Him. My Lord is Merciful, Loving.?
11:91 They said: ?O Shu?ayb, we do not understand most of what you say, and we see you as (-2) weak among us; and if it were not for who your family is, we would have stoned you, and you would not be proud against us.?
11:92 He said: ?My people, is who my family is more important to you than God, while you have cast Him away behind your backs? My Lord is encompassing what you do.?
11:93 ?And my people, (-2) continue to act as you do, and I will act. You will then come to know to whom the retribution will come to humiliate him and who is the liar. Watch then, and I will watch with you.?
11:94 And when Our command came, We saved Shu?ayb and those who believed with him by a mercy from Us; and the scream took those who had wronged, thus they became lifeless in their homes.
11:95 It is as if they had never lived there. Away with Midyan as it was away with Thamud.


In 11:87 it is clear that the 'salah' is communication/bonding with God with the possibility to have like a "data uplink" to God. I continue to refer to it by the English word Communion. Communion channels inspiration to the user who performs it constantly and with great devotion, but it should always be regarded as a kind of direct communication to the Lord. Shu'ayb's people asked if God channeled inspiration to him that they should abandon their idols. This seems to quite clearly put the basis of a Communion (salat) to have a pretty straight-forward meaning and non so complicated, and especially not just ramblings of words in a series like in a recurring monotone ritual. It has an immediate meaning when you perform Communion (as-salat).

11:88: It shows that Shu'ayb must not to have been perfect but also sinning at times which he admits. Some people claim that Messengers are free from sin or error, but this is not the case; not with Muhammad nor this nor other ones.



11:110 And We gave Moses the Message, yet they disputed in it; and had it not been for a word which was already given by your Lord, their case would have been judged immediately. They are in grave doubt concerning it.
11:111 And to each your Lord will recompense their works. He is expert in what they do.


Blue: We are all different communities. And we will all the held responsible for our deeds. God seems to differentiate between all these people and He did not intend that we play Muhammad & Co copycats 1400 years later but advocate belief in the One and do good by advocating justice and preventing evil. Communion is simply communication to the Lord although one may choose to kneel or prostrate on own volition towards the Master. With The Book you have a great guide, but remember that God's pen does never run dry but has an endless supply.

11:114 And hold the Communion at two parts of the day, and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.

11:118 And if your Lord had wished, He could have made all the people one nation, but they still would have continued to disagree.

Red: This is true, even if we were not "Quranist", "hadith-rejectors", Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims or name whatever you like; we would still argue about things and fantasize in conjecture and complicating things.

11:121 And say to those who do not believe: ?Continue to do what you will, we will also do.?
11:122 ?And wait, for we are also waiting.?


Could be the easiest was to dismiss instead of painfully arguing with someone who does only argue for the sake of proving someone wrong instead of humbly trying to contemplate what they are saying. I may use this advice.



Happy new 2014 everyone!

God bless you!
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: diamantinehoneybunch on December 31, 2013, 11:00:03 PM
Peace Man of Faith,

Sorry if you think I am just intruding here but I'd like to say thanks for this wonderful thread. To be honest I have never read the contents in this thread even though I have noticed the title of this thread but since a few weeks ago I think I am interested to learn from this thread :D

May God bless you :pr
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 01, 2014, 03:19:02 AM
Peace Yuliana,

No worries, thank the Lord for enlightening me.

I understand that my thread can be a heavy reading, but I have tried recently to improve the layout of the posts that they are easier to evaluate and link the information to my commentary. I did not really intend to ever explain The Book, but I felt I had to load a heavier caliber in my gun so as to prove more intricately that the Message is simple by together with the prospective readers analyze and see the discourse from a fluent and linguistic point of view. And you have seen that no translations made sense in some verses before I experimented on the words and their meaning, and I did not invent a new meaning on most words, but only scattered the words into morphemes, roots, and then reattempted the deciphering.

Only words that I was really daring was on ketaab and qur'an, where I have without real evidence changed their meaning, but that because they simply do not suit the contexts they are in. They must be mistakes by those who have been reading The Book over the centuries. So I still stand by from a fluency of text point of view that ketaab is message and qur'an is plainly book. It is basically not so hard to understand that quran is book however.


Anyway, it is to proclaim the simple Message underneath all the things man has made complicated about God, such as salat. You saw that the salat is to channel information and a tie to God. Wakas found its basic meaning and it is no more than that. Its root word is even used in a context of daily Arabic communication. Believe and be mindful of God and do good deeds, that is what God has prescribed for us.

EDIT: The thread's original purpose was to link The Book to a more graphical and streamlined way of perceiving it and you saw my circular diagram if you looked earlier in the thread. But I took the liberty to proving my stance of the Message's simplicity by going through all the relevant portions of The Book to show I am right without trying to be arrogant. I only try to serve the Lord and I could keep all this to myself and tell no one, but I see it as part of my charity. It is not like I gain anything except from the Lord, and, God willing, you benefit from it in the meantime.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 01, 2014, 01:31:18 PM
Chapter 12 Message check

12:1 ALR, these are the signs of the clarifying Message.
12:2 We have sent it down an Arabic book, perhaps you will comprehend.
12:3 We tell to you the best stories through what We have inspired to you in this Book; and before it you were of those who were unaware.


12:8 For they said: ?Joseph and his brother are more loved by our father than us, while we are a numerous group. Our father is clearly misguided.?

12:21 And he from Egypt who had bought him said to his wife: ?Make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take him as a son.? And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of the narrations. And God has full control over his situation, but most of the people do not know.
12:22 And when he reached his independence, We gave him judgement and knowledge. It is thus that We reward the good doers.


Red: Obviously what Joseph did was right in the "eyes of God".

12:50 And the king said: ?Bring him to me.? So when the messenger came to him, he said: ?Go back to your lord and ask him what was the matter regarding the women who cut their hands? Indeed, my Lord is aware of their plans.?
12:51 He said: ?What is your plea that you tried to seduce Joseph from himself?? They said: ?God be sought! We know of no evil on his part.? The wife of the governor said: ?Now the truth must be known, I did seek (-2) to seduce Joseph from himself and he is of the truthful ones.?
12:52 ?That is so he knows that I will not betray him while he is not present and that God does not guide the planning of the betrayers.?
12:53 ?And I do not make myself free of blame, for the soul is inclined to sin, except that which my Lord has mercy upon. My Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.?


Red: What is the Message here if you are Truthful?

12:56 And it was such that We gave Joseph authority in the land, to travel in it as he pleases. We bestow Our mercy upon whom We please, and We do not waste the reward of the (2) good doers.
12:57 And the reward of the Hereafter is better for those who (1) believe and are aware.


12:67 And he said: ?My sons, do not enter from one gate, but enter from separate gates; and I cannot avail you anything against God, for the judgment is to God. In Him I place my trust, and in Him those who place their trust should trust.?
12:68 And when they entered from where their father had commanded them, it would not have availed them in the least against God, but it was out of a concern in the soul of Jacob that he brought out. And he is with knowledge for what We taught him, but most of the people do not know.
12:69 And when they entered upon Joseph, he called his brother to himself and said: ?I am your brother, so do not be saddened by what they have done.?


Red: It is obvious that Jacob suspected that it was Joseph that was there in Egypt because clearly the reason he told them to enter through separate gates was that Joseph could get hold on his brother without the others knowing.

12:84 And he turned away from them and said: ?Oh, my sorrow over Joseph.? And his eyes turned white from sadness, and he became blind.
12:85 They said: ?By God, you will never cease to remember Joseph until you become senile or become dead!?
12:86 He said: ?I merely complain my grief and sorrow to God, and (3) I know from God what you do not know.?
12:87 ?My sons, go and inquire about Joseph and his brother, and do not despair from the spirit of God. The only ones who would despair from the spirit of God are the people who are rejecters.?


12:89 He said: ?Do you know what you have done with (-2) Joseph and his brother, while you were ignorant??

Red: It is obvious that there is more to the story than only in the narration of The Book.

12:92 He said: ?There is no blame on you this day, may God forgive you, and He is the Most Merciful of those who show mercy.?
12:93 ?Take this shirt of mine and cast it over the face of my father, and he will have sight; and bring to me all your family.?

Red: Sometimes the narrations are a bit strange but also a test of Faith.
Blue: Joseph forgave rather than punished even if he could easily have punished them harshly for all that they had done thanks to his position. It is simply following the Message.

12:94 And when the caravan departed, their father said: ?I do indeed feel the scent of Joseph, except that you may think me senile.?
12:95 They said: ?By God, you are back to your old misguidance.?
12:96 Then, when the bearer of good news came, he cast it over his face and he regained sight. He said: ?Did I not tell you that I know from God what you do not know??


Red: There is indeed some subtle humor in God's narrations, although only faint, that God brought in exactly what Jacob uttered in his household.

12:97 They said: ?Our father, ask forgiveness for our sins, indeed we were wrongdoers.?
12:98 He said: ?I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord, He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.?


Red: These were really righteous people.

12:100 And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they fell in prostration to Him. And he said: ?My father, this is the interpretation of my vision from before. My Lord has made it true, and He has been good to me that he took me out of prison and brought you out of the wilderness (-2) after the devil had made bitterness between me and my brothers. My Lord is Kind to whom He wills. He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise.?

Red: It explains a lot, does it not?

12:101 ?My Lord, You have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretation of the narrations. Initiator of the heavens and the earth, You are my protector in this world and the Hereafter. Let me die as one who has (1) submitted, and join me with the (2) good doers.?



12:102 That is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not among them when they arranged their plan and were scheming.
12:103 And most of the people, even if you are diligent, (-1) will not believe.
12:104 And you are not asking them for any wage, it is but a reminder to the worlds.
12:105 And how many a sign in the heavens and the earth do they pass by, while they are turning away from it.
12:106 And most of them will (-1) not believe in God except while setting up partners.


12:109 And We have not sent before you except men, to whom We gave inspiration, from the people of the towns. Will they not roam the earth and see how was the punishment of those before them? And the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are aware. Do you not comprehend?

Red: That is right. The Messengers were blessed men with who rose in rank and because of their staunch Faith were chosen ones. God chooses whom He pleases from among His servants to deliver His revelations. It could be you, it could be me, if we happened to reach far on the Faith scale. No reason to treat our Messengers as kings. I would never want to be called lord if I was a Messenger, but that every pious Believer would focus on the Lord above, the One, the Most Magnificent.

12:110 Then, when the messengers gave up, and they thought that they have been denied, Our victory came to them. We then save whom We wish, and Our punishment cannot be swayed from the wicked people.
12:111 In their stories is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. It is not a narration that has been invented, but an authentication of what is between his hands and a detailing of all things, and (3) a guidance and a mercy for a people (1) who believe.


Red: And the Messengers were not supermen; they could lose self-confidence but what separated them was that they would never lose Faith in God.
Blue: And certainly there is a reason why a big part of The Book contains of stories of the Messengers of old that we may learn from the events of all kind of moral issues, such as the one about Joseph and his brothers.



What do you think the Message was? Well here comes a hint again (and you can see what my numbers (1), (2) and (3) stand for):

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)What my (1), (2) and (3) generally refers to in previous and future posts unless otherwise told:
  • Belief in God/Faith
  • Righteousness/Actions
  • Belief in Realm/Faith

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 04, 2014, 08:17:55 AM
Chapter 13 Message check

13:1 ALMR, these are the signs of the Message. And what has been sent down to you from your Lord is the truth; but most of the people (-1) do not believe.

13:6 And they hasten towards you with (-2) evil before good, and the examples of those before them have already been given. And your Lord is with forgiveness towards the people for their transgression, and your Lord is severe in retribution.

13:15 And to God will submit all who are in the heavens and the earth, willingly and unwillingly, as do their shadows in the morning and the evening.

It does not make sense with this verse as prostrate. The verse means more that everything is obeying His will, willingly or unwillingly, if God wills something and it has to follow His system, including the laws of nature and such.

The chapter is demonstrating the power of God and why it is illogical not to believe in God. The language used fits a civilization 1400 years ago and might not always impress the reader nowadays although it is true regardless. The allegories God uses here are often abused by atheists to falsify The Book.



The righteous believe, keep the bond and do good:

13:20 Those who fulfill the pledge of God, and they do not break the covenant.
13:21 And those who (2) deliver what God has ordered to be delivered, and they are concerned towards their Lord and they fear a terrible reckoning.
13:22 And those who are patient seeking the face of their Lord; and they hold the (1) Communion, and they (2) spend from what We have bestowed upon them secretly and openly, and they (2) counter evil with good; these will have an excellent abode.
13:23 The gardens of delight; which they will enter (2) with those who are good doers from their fathers and their mates and their progeny. And the angels will enter upon them from every gate.
13:24 ?Peace be upon you for what you have been patient for. Excellent indeed is the final abode.?




While those who are unrighteous only spread mischief:

13:25 As for those who break their pledge with God after having made its covenant, and they (-2) withhold what God has ordered to be delivered, and they (-2) cause corruption on the earth; upon those is a curse and they will have a miserable abode.
13:26 God gives the provisions for whom He wishes, and He is Capable. And they (-3) were happy with the worldly life, but the worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing except a brief enjoyment.
13:27 And those who have rejected say: ?If only a sign were sent down to him from his Lord!? Say: ?God misguides whom He wishes and guides to Him whoever is repenting.




13:29 The ones who have (1) believed, and have (2) done good works, there will be happiness for them and a wonderful abode.



13:30 Thus, We have sent you to a nation, as with other nations before it, so that you may tell them that which has been inspired to you; while they are still rejecting the Almighty. Say: ?He is my Lord, there is no god except He, in Him I place my trust and to Him is my repentance.?

13:36 And those to whom We have previously given the Message rejoice at what has been sent down to you, but there are some from the Confederates who reject parts of it. Say: ?I am only ordered to (1) serve God and not set up any partner with Him. Towards Him I implore and towards Him is the return.?
13:37 And as such, We have sent it down a law which is in Arabic. And if you follow their desires after what has come to you of the Knowledge, then you will not have any ally or defender against God.
13:38 And We have sent messengers before you and We have made for them mates and offspring. It was not for a messenger to come with any sign except with the permission of God; for each period there is a Message.
13:39 God erases and confirms what He wishes, and with Him is the source of the Message.


13:43 And those who reject say: ?You are not a messenger.? Say: ?God is enough as a witness between me and you; the One who has the knowledge of the Message.?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 04, 2014, 02:58:39 PM
Chapter 14 Message check

14:1 ALR, a Message which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the Light with the permission of their Lord, to the Path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.

14:4 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise

Red: It is thus strange that we use Arabic when God has promised the Messengers speaking the language of his people. This phrase ought to question the obsession with Arabic and its importance for the Message, and that it just happened that these people got their presentation of the Message in this language in the 7th century.

14:5 And We sent Moses with Our signs: ?You shall bring your people out of the darkness and into the light, and remind them of the days of God.? In this are signs for everyone patient and thankful.
14:6 And Moses said to his people: ?Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord.?


In all the happenings occurring with the Messengers presence here on Earth it is primarily to remember what God did for you and not the Messengers who channeled God's words. Despite this the Messengers tend to have exaggerated importance and idolization to their name.

14:7 And your Lord proclaimed: ?If you give thanks, I will increase for you, but if you are rejecting, then My retribution is severe.?

This ought to be what rejecting God is; to not give appreciation and remain completely heedless of Him no matter if you have Knowledge or not. We ought to keep in mind what God's definition of rejection is. Often it seems that you can know that God exists but you "forget" about Him, lose focus.

14:9 Did not news come to you of those before you: the people of Noah, and ?Aad, and Thamud, and those after them whom none know except God? Their messengers came to them with clarity, but they placed their hands onto their mouths and said: ?We are rejecting what you have been sent with, and we are in doubt as to what you are inviting us to.?
14:10 Their messengers said: ?Is there doubt regarding God, the initiator of the heavens and the earth? He invites you so that He may forgive some of your sins, and delay you to an appointed term.? They said: ?You are merely human beings like us; you wish to turn us away from what our fathers used to serve. So come to us with a clear proof.?
14:11 Their messengers said: ?We are indeed human beings like you, but God will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except with the permission of God. And in God the believers should place their trust?
14:12 ?And why should we not place our trust in God, when He has guided us in our paths. And we will be patient to the harm you inflict upon us. And in God those who trust should place their trust.?
14:13 And those who rejected said to their messengers: ?We will expel you from our land, or you will return to our creed.? It was then that their Lord inspired to them: ?We will destroy the wicked.?


The Messengers practically preached the same Message in this summary by God and so did Muhammad and Jesus. No more no less.



The losers:

14:21 And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant: ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from the retribution of God?? They said: ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?
14:22 And the devil said when the matter was complete: ?God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me up as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution.?


Green: They foolishly followed their spiritual leaders when they uttered complete nonsense which had no basis in the Message and prohibitions never authorized by God.
Blue: The devil is an invisible but powerful deceiver and is most efficient when humans distance themselves to God and thus loses His protection, and when we give in to our lusts.



But the righteous Believers were these (who mainly upheld these criteria):

14:23 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

It is incredible how many times God repeats this phrase throughout The Book and people still complicate the Message.

14:24 Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
14:25 It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember.


Red: This analogy is very good to prove the (1), (2) and (3) theory if one understands what God means.



14:27 God makes firm those who believe with firm sayings in the worldly life, and in the Hereafter. And God misguides the wicked, and God does what He wishes.
14:28 Did you not see those who replaced the blessings of God with rejection, and they caused their people to dwell in the abode of destruction?


If one does not believe and indulges in bad actions constantly then God will even misguide people Himself. Certain groups come to mind immediately.

14:31 Say to My servants who (1) believe, that they should hold the Communion, and (2) spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.

14:35 And Abraham said: ?My Lord, make this a land of peace, and keep me and my sons away from serving statues.?

The Message shines through here perfectly right in front of your very eyes who have probably read this phrase many times.

14:39 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
14:40 ?My Lord, let me hold the Communion, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, and accept my prayer.?


Purpose of Communion, to implore God for the things we need.

The Message is really simple, is it not?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: sushi1992 on January 04, 2014, 04:24:04 PM
Chapter 14 Message check

14:1 ALR, a Message which We have sent down to you so that you may bring the people out of the darkness and into the Light with the permission of their Lord, to the Path of the Noble, the Praiseworthy.

14:4 And We have not sent any messenger except in the language of his people, so he may clarify for them. But God misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. And He is the Noble, the Wise

Red: It is thus strange that we use Arabic when God has promised the Messengers speaking the language of his people. This phrase ought to question the obsession with Arabic and its importance for the Message, and that it just happened that these people got their presentation of the Message in this language in the 7th century.

14:5 And We sent Moses with Our signs: ?You shall bring your people out of the darkness and into the light, and remind them of the days of God.? In this are signs for everyone patient and thankful.
14:6 And Moses said to his people: ?Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord.?


In all the happenings occurring with the Messengers presence here on Earth it is primarily to remember what God did for you and not the Messengers who channeled God's words. Despite this the Messengers tend to have exaggerated importance and idolization to their name.

14:7 And your Lord proclaimed: ?If you give thanks, I will increase for you, but if you are rejecting, then My retribution is severe.?

This ought to be what rejecting God is; to not give appreciation and remain completely heedless of Him no matter if you have Knowledge or not. We ought to keep in mind what God's definition of rejection is. Often it seems that you can know that God exists but you "forget" about Him, lose focus.

14:9 Did not news come to you of those before you: the people of Noah, and ?Aad, and Thamud, and those after them whom none know except God? Their messengers came to them with clarity, but they placed their hands onto their mouths and said: ?We are rejecting what you have been sent with, and we are in doubt as to what you are inviting us to.?
14:10 Their messengers said: ?Is there doubt regarding God, the initiator of the heavens and the earth? He invites you so that He may forgive some of your sins, and delay you to an appointed term.? They said: ?You are merely human beings like us; you wish to turn us away from what our fathers used to serve. So come to us with a clear proof.?
14:11 Their messengers said: ?We are indeed human beings like you, but God will bestow His grace upon whom He pleases from His servants. And it is not up to us to bring you proof except with the permission of God. And in God the believers should place their trust?
14:12 ?And why should we not place our trust in God, when He has guided us in our paths. And we will be patient to the harm you inflict upon us. And in God those who trust should place their trust.?
14:13 And those who rejected said to their messengers: ?We will expel you from our land, or you will return to our creed.? It was then that their Lord inspired to them: ?We will destroy the wicked.?


The Messengers practically preached the same Message in this summary by God and so did Muhammad and Jesus. No more no less.



The losers:

14:21 And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant: ?We were following you, so will you avail us anything from the retribution of God?? They said: ?If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge.?
14:22 And the devil said when the matter was complete: ?God had promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and broke my promise. And I had no power over you except that I invited you and you responded to me. So do not blame me, but blame yourselves; I cannot help you nor can you help me. I reject that you have set me up as a partner before this; the wicked will have a painful retribution.?


Green: They foolishly followed their spiritual leaders when they uttered complete nonsense which had no basis in the Message and prohibitions never authorized by God.
Blue: The devil is an invisible but powerful deceiver and is most efficient when humans distance themselves to God and thus loses His protection, and when we give in to our lusts.



But the righteous Believers were these (who mainly upheld these criteria):

14:23 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works were admitted to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. In them they will abide with the permission of their Lord. Their greeting therein is ?Peace.?

It is incredible how many times God repeats this phrase throughout The Book and people still complicate the Message.

14:24 Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
14:25 It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember.


Red: This analogy is very good to prove the (1), (2) and (3) theory if one understands what God means.



14:27 God makes firm those who believe with firm sayings in the worldly life, and in the Hereafter. And God misguides the wicked, and God does what He wishes.
14:28 Did you not see those who replaced the blessings of God with rejection, and they caused their people to dwell in the abode of destruction?


If one does not believe and indulges in bad actions constantly then God will even misguide people Himself. Certain groups come to mind immediately.

14:31 Say to My servants who (1) believe, that they should hold the Communion, and (2) spend from what provisions We granted them secretly and openly, before a Day comes when there is no trade therein, nor will there be any friends.

14:35 And Abraham said: ?My Lord, make this a land of peace, and keep me and my sons away from serving statues.?

The Message shines through here perfectly right in front of your very eyes who have probably read this phrase many times.

14:39 ?Praise be to God who has granted me to my old age Ishmael and Isaac; my Lord is Hearer of the prayer.?
14:40 ?My Lord, let me hold the Communion, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, and accept my prayer.?


Purpose of Communion, to implore God for the things we need.

The Message is really simple, is it not?

God bless you

Tis. Very well written. If only everyone saw it this simply....

God bless :peace:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 05, 2014, 01:43:26 PM
Chapter 15 Message check

Let us proceed with yet another chapter of The Book to clarify the clear Message within the text.

15:1 ALR, these are the signs of the Message, and a clear Book.

Red: This is one of those verses that does not make any sense with the traditional view of ketaab as book and then ends with the traditional perception of Qur'an as Qur'an. At least not according to me.

15:9 Indeed it is We who have sent down the (3) Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.

15:86 Your Lord is the Creator, the Knower.
15:87 And We have given you seven of the pairs, and the great Book.
15:88 Do not linger with your eyes on what We have bestowed upon some couples from them, and do not grieve for them, and lower your wing for the believers.
15:89 And say: ?I am the clarifying warner.?
15:90 As for the dividers in what We sent down.
15:91 The ones who have made the Book partial.
15:92 By your Lord, We will ask them all.
15:93 Regarding what they used to do.
15:94 So proclaim what you have been commanded and turn away from the polytheists.
15:95 We will relieve you from those who mocked.
15:96 Those who place with God another god. They will come to know.
15:97 And We know that your chest is strained by what they say.
15:98 So glorify the praise of your Lord, and be of those who prostrate.
15:99 And (1) serve your Lord until certainty comes to you.


Red: This feels like a riddle.

I skipped many verses as they were not relevant for the Message check or simply would be repetition of the same things I linked to previously.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 05, 2014, 03:37:35 PM
Chapter 16 Message check

Let us immediately continue with the next chapter and see how the Message is incredibly simple and non-uniform. People are allowed to be their own individuals as long as they works towards becoming really good people and build up a strong Faith in God.

16:2 He sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants: (1) ?That you shall warn that there is no god except I, so be aware of Me.?

Red: The Message in its simplicity. If people simply believe, show appreciation and do good then mission accomplished.
Green: Indeed. God can inspire anyone whom he wishes, and there is nothing which indicates a time restriction.

16:3 - 16:17 God gives reasons to believe in Him, although they are outdated for a civilization of the 21st century, so they might not be so impressive today even if they are correct. Had God revealed a book today there would likely be allegories with outer space and planets in a more modern style. The old style of allegories are often abused by atheist to "patheticize" The Book even if they are not wrong but on child level nowadays.



It seems that open polytheism (other gods) was the main issue when The Book was revealed so the accusations by God could possibly be different if God happened to inspire a scripture in this age. It is relatively easy to adjust the verses of The Book in your mind so that you see God's point regardless. Anyway, the gods narrated about could be changed by the god people have done out of Muhammad and Jesus with sayings that possibly never took place. Certain people think that Muhammad has the power of intercession and other ridiculous abilities so you could say that he has god-rank. And Jesus is still as of 21st century regarded as a god, so in ways The Book is still as valid as in the past although there could be a slight change of focus as the issues changed.

I still deem The Book to primarily be aimed for the contemporary population of the 7th century and could be used as a Guide now about 1400 years later, but it is not tailored for a modern population so to say. We have had a slight change of issues from when The Book was written although the moral lessons are still as valid, and because the Message is so uncomplicated.



16:30 And it was said to those who were righteous: ?What has your Lord sent down?? They said: ?All goodness.? For those who have (2) done good in this world there is good; and the Hereafter is goodness. Excellent indeed is the home of the righteous.

Red: Consider what you have done when you have done good. That is repeated countless of times in The Book and is the essence of this Message and the other one is purification and communication to God which I conveniently refer to as Communion.

16:32 Those whom their lives are terminated by the angels, (2) while they had been good, they will say: ?Peace be upon you, enter the Paradise because of that which you have done.?

Red: (2) BE GOOD, be of a GOOD character. That and (1) belief and service to God is all that counts. And certain mobilization to uphold justice because a Believer cannot be a bystander, and they know that dieing while being good would be like a blessing, nothing to be afraid of.



16:36 And We have sent a messenger to every nation: (1) ?You shall serve God and (2) avoid evil.? Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to be misguided. So travel the earth, and see how the punishment was of those who denied.

Red: So I say: "You shall serve God and avoid evil!"

16:37 If you are concerned for their guidance, God does not guide whom He misguides; and they will have no supporters.

Red: No matter what you say; some people will not believe, so no reason to be sad because they only argue with you and want to imply that you are ignorant.

16:43 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.
16:44 With signs and the revelations. And We sent down to you the Reminder to reveal to the people what was sent to them, and perhaps they will think.


The Message is nothing new.

16:64 And We have not sent down the Message to you except that you may clarify for them that in which they have disputed, and as a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

16:89 And the Day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. And We have sent down to you the Message as a clarification for all things, and a guidance and a mercy and good tidings to those who have submitted.



16:90 God orders (2) justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember.

What is the Message?

16:91 And fulfill your pledge to God when you pledge so, and do not break your oath after making it, for you have made God a sponsor over you. God is aware of what you do.

16:97 Whoever does (2) good works, whether male or female, and is a (1) believer, We will give him a good life and We will reward them their dues with the best of what they used to do.



16:98 When you read The Book, you shall seek refuge with God from the outcast devil.
16:99 He has no authority over those who believe, and who put their trust in their Lord.


Red: If you believe; God narrates that Shaytaan has no authority over you. And as you know belief in a nutshell is belief (Faith) in God and doing good; such people will be "shielded" against the temptations of the evil one.

16:101 And if We exchange a revelation in place of another revelation; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they say: ?You are making this up!? Alas, most of them do not know.

A classical; "God's pen does never run out of ink", fits fine here.

16:102 Say: ?The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord with the truth, so that those who (1) believe will be strengthened, and as a Guidance and good news for those who have submitted.?
16:103 And We are aware that they say: ?A human being is teaching him.? The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear Arabic tongue.
16:104 Those who do not believe in the signs of God, God will not guide them, and they will have a painful retribution.
16:105 Inventing fabrications is only done by those who do not believe in the signs of God; and these are the liars.


Red: The inspiration is channeled to the receiving servant of God.
Green: It would be interesting to imagine that the same phrase could as well be repeated again if there would be a revelation in yet another language something like: "The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, while this is a clear [insert random language here] tongue"



16:112 And God puts forth the example of a town which was (2) peaceful and content, its provisions were coming to it bountifully from all places, but then it (-2) rebelled against the blessings of God, and God made it taste hunger and fear for what they used to do.
16:113 And a messenger came to them from themselves, but they denied him, so the punishment took them while they were wicked.
16:114 So (2) eat from what God has provided you, that which is good and lawful, and be (1) thankful for the blessing of God, if it is indeed He whom you serve.
16:115 He has only forbidden for you what is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
16:116 And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: ?This is lawful, and that is forbidden;? that you seek to invent lies about God. Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.


Red: This is haraam and this is halal etc. It is pretty clear that they indulged in various conjecture and possibly oppressed those who opposed this madness.

16:118 And for those who are Jewish, We forbade what We told to you before. And We did not wrong them, but they were wronging themselves.

The Jews had some community-specific prohibitions, and God is right that He told you about it previously. You see it earlier in my Message checks.

16:119 Then your Lord to those who do (-2) evil out of ignorance, then they repent after that and (2) they make good, your Lord after that is Forgiver, Merciful.



16:120 Abraham was a nation, (2) dutiful to God, a monotheist, and he was not of the polytheists.
16:121 (1) Thankful for His blessings. He chose him and guided him to a straight path.
16:122 And We gave him good in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the upright ones.




16:123 Then We inspired to you: ?You shall follow the creed of Abraham, monotheism, and he was not of the polytheists.?
16:124 Indeed, the Sabbath was only decreed for those who had disputed in it, and your Lord will judge between them for that in which they had disputed.


This is one of the vague (translated) verses mentioning the Sabbath. I do not buy the argument to exclude it on this basis. I am going to have to continue to research on this.



16:126 And if you punish, then punish with equivalence to that which you were punished. And if you are patient then it is better for the patient ones.
16:127 And be patient, for your patience is on none except God. And do not grieve for them, and do not be depressed by what they scheme.


16:128 God is with those who are (1) aware and are (2) good doers.

It is clear that it is better to forgive than to seek revenge at all. God has made written that it is one of the main traits to be patient.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on January 06, 2014, 04:37:30 AM
Peace Man of  Daith

Until now I agree if Kitab in QUran can be mean Book or letter/chapter.
Quran's language pattern indeed is a special, even for Arab themself.A word hasmany multiple meaning depend on it's context.

One of the example is the word "Rabb" in Chapter Yusuf.The word "Rabb: mostly directed to the One Supreme Being, but in that chapter also directed to Jusuf's FIr'aun

God Bless You
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 06, 2014, 11:04:56 AM
Peace Earthdom,

I have put much of my brain processing power on ketaab, but its root word seems to incline towards to compose something such as a composition, but in my own philosophies it does not have to mean a concrete object in its noun form ketaab. Ketaab as letter could be it, but I find the word still connotes to kind of a prescription, much like the doctors give to their patients and that put me to the decision of using the word Message for the context of The Book. The problem we face with ketaab is that we humans have a tendency to always have to relate to things physically and that has caused ketaab to become a thing. But as a physical item 'ketaab' does not fit all the context and some of the verses look pathetic if you ask me, but if you give a slightly more abstract meaning such as message which a book could possibly be although it means more abstractly. A message is usually abstract in meaning and in The Book ketaab as concrete item does not suit the context.

Ketaab as letter is better than book, but I still am not satisfied with that as it does still not give enough. Ketaab in The Book is many times evidently not a physical item because it does not fit the context and it makes it faulty. For example; Abraham could not have known about physical books unless he knew the future as in the verse I was talking about in previous posts where Abraham together with his son prayed:

2:129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?

Red: What book did he refer to? Could the man read the future or does ketaab really mean a physical book? If you replace book and insert Message then the sentence takes its true form according to me.

And its meaning is not adaptable to just this context, but that is true for the word ketaab كتاب wherever you encounter it in The Book.

It does not exclude that the word كتب does mean to compose something, but it does not have the absolute meaning that the result product has to be a physical item. In the case of The Book in relates to the contents of it as the Message.

Based on this I know that the Torah and Gospel are also part of the Message and not necessarily physical books. I personally believe that Moses only received guidelines on two stone tablets which he and his people were told to follow and which also Jesus were taught to follow although he came with news which the Message Gospel means and you know yourself what Jesus spoke about if you read one of the Gospel testimonies. What they taught are part of the grand Message, but Torah and Gospel themselves are the abstract teachings of respective era. The Messengers before Gospel taught strictly what was of the Torah while Jesus elaborated and showed that you could regard the list of commandments as the minimum requirement. What the Jews know of the original prohibitions they had that is the Torah, but lots of what they do is inventions much like we know happens to Muslims today. Jews have a relatively small list of things to do; the ten commandments and some community-specific commands. The list of the ten commandments (I think is al-furqan) is still valid for every Believer in the system of God and His Covenant.

Once again I am bold as to claim Torah and Gospel are not to be regarded concretely but abstractly although you follow Torah if you follow the (original) teachings of Moses althogh the Message is renewed with news that newer generations do not to be punished for their (the Jews from the Exodus and following generations) sins not to eat from the good which God forbade because the Jews had sinned. Possibly it is this that is the Gospel, i.e. that certain prohibitions were lifted and Jesus were a Light that showed that one could apply the heart in the interpretation of the Message and that the Torah is just the minimum requirement expected from a Believer.

So the Bible carries some Truth, but much of the Old Testament is not to be considered The Criterion and the Torah of Moses. In fact very little of it and you can apply logic that it has to be contained in text on two ancient stone tablets. And obviously the Gospels you find in the New Testament were not written by Jesus and nothing exists which were written by Jesus. There is probably nothing that Jesus wrote and the Gospels reveal most of what Jesus did quite well despite distortion, so there was really no need for him to write down anything. If you tinker on the Gospels next time you read them you find that the Message is not to do only minimally what is required of a Believer but do more and Jesus gave the optimum state of a Believer to completely reject the wealth of this world and only do things to help others.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 06, 2014, 12:44:17 PM
Peace Earthdom,

I have put much of my brain processing power on ketaab, but its root word seems to incline towards to compose something such as a composition, but in my own philosophies it does not have to mean a concrete object in its noun form ketaab. Ketaab as letter could be it, but I find the word still connotes to kind of a prescription, much like the doctors give to their patients and that put me to the decision of using the word Message for the context of The Book. The problem we face with ketaab is that we humans have a tendency to always have to relate to things physically and that has caused ketaab to become a thing. But as a physical item 'ketaab' does not fit all the context and some of the verses look pathetic if you ask me, but if you give a slightly more abstract meaning such as message which a book could possibly be although it means more abstractly. A message is usually abstract in meaning and in The Book ketaab as concrete item does not suit the context.

Ketaab as letter is better than book, but I still am not satisfied with that as it does still not give enough. Ketaab in The Book is many times evidently not a physical item because it does not fit the context and it makes it faulty. For example; Abraham could not have known about physical books unless he knew the future as in the verse I was talking about in previous posts where Abraham together with his son prayed:

2:129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?

Red: What book did he refer to? Could the man read the future or does ketaab really mean a physical book? If you replace book and insert Message then the sentence takes its true form according to me.

And its meaning is not adaptable to just this context, but that is true for the word ketaab كتاب wherever you encounter it in The Book.

It does not exclude that the word كتب does mean to compose something, but it does not have the absolute meaning that the result product has to be a physical item. In the case of The Book in relates to the contents of it as the Message.

Based on this I know that the Torah and Gospel are also part of the Message and not necessarily physical books. I personally believe that Moses only received guidelines on two stone tablets which he and his people were told to follow and which also Jesus were taught to follow although he came with news which the Message Gospel means and you know yourself what Jesus spoke about if you read one of the Gospel testimonies. What they taught are part of the grand Message, but Torah and Gospel themselves are the abstract teachings of respective era. The Messengers before Gospel taught strictly what was of the Torah while Jesus elaborated and showed that you could regard the list of commandments as the minimum requirement. What the Jews know of the original prohibitions they had that is the Torah, but lots of what they do is inventions much like we know happens to Muslims today. Jews have a relatively small list of things to do; the ten commandments and some community-specific commands. The list of the ten commandments (I think is al-furqan) is still valid for every Believer in the system of God and His Covenant.

Once again I am bold as to claim Torah and Gospel are not to be regarded concretely but abstractly although you follow Torah if you follow the (original) teachings of Moses althogh the Message is renewed with news that newer generations do not to be punished for their (the Jews from the Exodus and following generations) sins not to eat from the good which God forbade because the Jews had sinned. Possibly it is this that is the Gospel, i.e. that certain prohibitions were lifted and Jesus were a Light that showed that one could apply the heart in the interpretation of the Message and that the Torah is just the minimum requirement expected from a Believer.

So the Bible carries some Truth, but much of the Old Testament is not to be considered The Criterion and the Torah of Moses. In fact very little of it and you can apply logic that it has to be contained in text on two ancient stone tablets. And obviously the Gospels you find in the New Testament were not written by Jesus and nothing exists which were written by Jesus. There is probably nothing that Jesus wrote and the Gospels reveal most of what Jesus did quite well despite distortion, so there was really no need for him to write down anything. If you tinker on the Gospels next time you read them you find that the Message is not to do only minimally what is required of a Believer but do more and Jesus gave the optimum state of a Believer to completely reject the wealth of this world and only do things to help others.

God bless you

Your "personal" beliefs count for nothing . . . and are text book definition of "Conjecture". Only thing that counts is evidence from Quran.



Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Zulf on January 06, 2014, 02:56:01 PM
Your "personal" beliefs count for nothing . . . and are text book definition of "Conjecture". Only thing that counts is evidence from Quran.

His personal beliefs count for exactly as much as anyone else's personal beliefs.
People can prove anything about anything in any direction. Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 06, 2014, 02:59:17 PM
His personal beliefs count for exactly as much as anyone else's personal beliefs.
People can prove anything about anything in any direction. Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind.

Then - learn to keep it quiet. Isn't it dead ironic . . . that Quran only cover the gaps . . . from themselves? And claim to be restricted to Quran only? Yet that is so obviously NOT the case.

- -

Quote
People can prove anything about anything in any direction.


Atta! But hat you cannot "prove" is what you just made  up.

- -

Quote
Let's not judge each other. Instead try being silent and listen to Allah in your heart, not in your conditioned and fearful mind.

Meaningless religious babble. Sorry never paid heed to such "sanctimony".
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Zulf on January 06, 2014, 03:13:12 PM
Then - learn to keep it quiet. Isn't it dead ironic . . . that Quran only cover the gaps . . . from themselves? And claim to be restricted to Quran only? Yet that is so obviously NOT the case.
I'm certainly not restricted to "quran only". But anyway, I'll remain silent.  :-X . . .   ::)

Quote
Atta! But hat you cannot "prove" is what you just made  up.
No-one can.

Quote
Meaningless religious babble. Sorry never paid heed to such "sanctimony".
:rotfl:
Meaningless.. to you, yes apparently.
Religious? Not at all. I stand apart from religion.
But what do you pay heed to?

Peace  :sun:
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 06, 2014, 03:24:08 PM
Peace,

Please no fighting here. The Chimp is entitled to his opinion. Perchance there is someone else who appreciates the studies.

God bless whom he wills
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 06, 2014, 04:26:30 PM
I'm certainly not restricted to "quran only". But anyway, I'll remain silent.  :-X . . .   ::)
No-one can.
 :rotfl:
Meaningless.. to you, yes apparently.
Religious? Not at all. I stand apart from religion.
But what do you pay heed to?

Peace  :sun:

Quote
Meaningless.. to you, yes apparently.
Religious? Not at all. I stand apart from religion.
But what do you pay heed to?

Sincerity. genuine sincerity. And not bibble-babble and meaningless sanctimonious spiels . . .
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 06, 2014, 04:29:00 PM
Peace,

Please no fighting here. The Chimp is entitled to his opinion. Perchance there is someone else who appreciates the studies.

God bless whom he wills

I have questioned you and found you lacking. . . in so many ways. What you write is nothing more than meaningless spiels. If you were genuine . . . and not trying to carve up a career as "wise" guy . . . and invested time in studying rather than spouting meaningless and baseless theories . . . then . . .

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 06, 2014, 11:42:45 PM
Peace The Chimp,

Okay. Thanks for your input. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Earthdom on January 07, 2014, 06:49:02 AM
I personally believe that Moses only received guidelines on two stone tablets which he and his people were told to follow and which also Jesus were taught to follow although he came with news which the Message Gospel means and you know yourself what Jesus spoke about if you read one of the Gospel testimonies. What they taught are part of the grand Message, but Torah and Gospel themselves are the abstract teachings of respective era. The Messengers before Gospel taught strictly what was of the Torah while Jesus elaborated and showed that you could regard the list of commandments as the minimum requirement. What the Jews know of the original prohibitions they had that is the Torah, but lots of what they do is inventions much like we know happens to Muslims today. Jews have a relatively small list of things to do; the ten commandments and some community-specific commands.

I also believe in so.Actually all the phrophets never wrote anykinds of Scripture, they received revelations via oral transmission.
It's third parties who wrote Scriptures in text, they can be companios, apostles, clerics etc.
This supported by verses both in Tanakh til the Quran.

I see the ten commandment itself is the result of religious councils, I never found this formula in Tanakh.

God bless you.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: good logic on January 07, 2014, 12:34:47 PM
Peace Earthdom.

What about Moses?

Did he receive Written tablets?

Peace to you.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 07, 2014, 01:58:40 PM
Chapter 17 Message check

17:2 And We gave Moses the Message and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel: ?Do not believe in any besides Me.?
17:3 The progeny of those whom We carried with Noah, he was a thankful servant.
17:4 And We decreed in the Message to the Children of Israel, that you will make corruption twice on the earth, and that you will become very high and mighty.
17:5 So, when the promise of the first one comes to pass, We would send against you servants of Ours who are very powerful, thus they managed to breach your very homes, and this was a promise which has come to pass.
17:6 Then We gave back to you your independence from them, and We supplied you with wealth and sons, and We made you more influential.
17:7 If you (2) do good, then it will be good for you, and if you (-2) do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Temple as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.


Red: Phrase reinforcing the linguistic need for ketaab to be Message rather than Book.

17:9 This Book guides to that which is more upright, and it gives glad tidings to the (1) believers who (2) do good works that they will have a bountiful reward.

17:10 And for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have prepared for them a painful retribution.
17:11 And man calls to evil as much as he calls to good, and man was always hasty.


Blue: The common man in a nutshell in my humble opinion.

17:19 And whoever seeks the Hereafter and (2) strives for it as it deserves, and is a (1) believing person, then to those what they have sought is given in thanks.

17:23 And your Lord decreed that you shall (1) not serve except He, and (2) do good to your parents. When one of them or both of them reach old age, do not say to them a word of disrespect nor shout at them, but say to them a kind saying.

17:25 Your Lord is fully aware of what is in your souls. If you are (2) good, then He is to the obedient a Forgiver.
17:26 And give the (2) relative his due, and the poor, and the wayfarer; and do not waste excessively.
17:27 Those who (-2) waste excessively are brothers to the devils, and the devil was to his Lord a rejecter.


Green: Consume in moderation.



17:28 And if you turn away from them to seek a mercy from your Lord which you desire, then say to them a gentle saying.
17:29 And do not make your hand stingy by holding it to your neck, nor shall you lay it fully open so you become in despair and regret.
17:30 Your Lord lays out openly the provision for whom He wishes, and He is able to do so. He is Expert and Seer over His servants.


Green: I interpret these verses as in spoiling yourself in some provisions from God and it ought to be done modestly and without making a big display of it. But the verse tells that it can be done righteously as long as you show appreciation. This set of verses show part of my chain of Faith called 'Peace and Prosperity' when God has begun to bless the Believer with provisions.



17:31 And do not (-2) kill your children out of concern of poverty; We shall provide for you and them. The killing of them was a big mistake.
17:32 And do not come near (-2) adultery, for it is immoral and an evil path.
17:33 And do not (-2) take a life, for God has made this forbidden, except in the course of justice. And whoever is killed innocently, then We have given his heir authority, so let him not transgress in the taking of a life, for He will be given victory.
17:34 And do not (-2) come near the money of the orphan, except for that which is best, until he reaches his independence. And fulfill the pledge, for the pledge brings great responsibility.
17:35 And (2) give full measure when you deal, and weigh with a balance that is straight. That is (2) good and better in the end.
17:36 And do (-2) not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
17:37 And do not walk in the land (-2) arrogantly, for you will not penetrate the earth, nor will you reach the mountains in height.


17:38 All of this is (-2) bad, and disliked by your Lord.

17:39 That is from what your Lord has inspired to you of the Wisdom. And do not make with God (-1) another god, or you will be cast into Hell, blameworthy and regretting.

Blue: Even if God gives the right to kill in the course of justice it is more righteous to save a life whenever possible.
Green: Some people would probably abuse this against what I have written here despite it is just copy-pasting from The Book and writing commentary. Okay, they would say so about ketaab and quran, but I stand by that.
Red: And that is basically the whole Message printed out in a short sequence of verses, together with the verses what you should do above the horizontal line and the one above that including the text in bold. Uphold justice is the key.



17:41 And We have dispatched in this Book that they may remember, but it only increases their aversion!

17:45 And when you read the Book, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.
17:46 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Book alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.


17:57 The ones you call on, they are themselves seeking a path to their Lord which is nearer, and they desire His mercy, and they fear His retribution. The retribution of your Lord is to be feared!

Blue: It is a hint that God is not necessarily referring to stone statues and such idols but real people who are being revered as gods. It would obviously question those who hold for example Muhammad excessively high.

17:58 And there is not a town before the Day of Resurrection that We will not destroy it, or punish it with a severe punishment. This is in the Message.

17:60 And when We said to you: ?Your Lord has encompassed the people.? And We did not make the vision that We showed you except as a test for the people, and the tree that was cursed in the Book. And We are making them fearful, but it only increases their transgression.



17:65 ?As for (1) My servants, you (Shaytaan) will have no power over them.? And your Lord is enough as a Caretaker.

Red: As long as a person struggles to fulfill the criteria in this circular diagram and by following the Message, the above verse is true for them:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)



17:73 And they nearly diverted you from what We inspired to you so that you would fabricate something different against Us, and then they would have taken you as a friend!
17:74 And if We had not made you stand firm, you were about to lean towards them a little bit.
17:75 Then, We would have made you taste double the retribution in this life and double the retribution in death. And then you would not find for yourself any victor against Us.
17:76 And they nearly intimidated you so they could drive you out of the land. But then they would have been destroyed shortly after you were gone.
17:77 Such was the way of those whom We had sent before you of Our messengers. And you will not find any change in Our way.


Blue: And the "infallible" Muhammad nearly commits a grave sin except that The Lord saved him from doing so. So much for infallibility.

17:78 Hold the Communion till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the Book at dawn - the Book at dawn is witnessed.

Red: In case the verse above should be read in conjunction with the preceding verses it would mean that the Communion mentioned here was something specific for the Messenger in this narration. Otherwise The Lord surely switches fast from directing the focus on Muhammad to other people.

17:79 And from the night, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a station that is praiseworthy.
17:80 And say: ?My Lord, admit me an entrance of truth and let me exit an exit of truth, and grant me from Yourself a support to victory.?
17:81 And say: ?The truth has come and falsehood has perished. Falsehood is always bound to perish!?
17:82 And We send down from the Book what is a healing and mercy to the believers. And it only increases the wicked in their loss.




17:85 And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say: ?The Spirit is from the authority of my Lord; and the knowledge you were given was but very little.?
17:86 And if We wished, We would take away that which We have inspired to you. Then you would not find for yourself with it against Us a caretaker.

Red: The Holy Spirit which is some special The Force-like energy in the Universe which runs stronger in some people. It is interesting that one can draw a parallel to something like Star Wars.

17:87 Except for a mercy from your Lord. His grace upon you has been great.
17:88 Say: ?If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Book like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?
17:89 And We have dispatched to the people in this Book from every example, but most of the people refuse to be anything but rejecters!




17:90 And they said: ?We will not believe unto you until you cause a spring of water to burst out of the ground?
17:91 ?Or that you have an estate of palm trees and grapes, and you cause gushing rivers to burst through it.?
17:92 ?Or that you make the heaven fall upon us in pieces as you claimed, or that you bring God and the angels before us.?
17:93 ?Or that you have a luxurious home, or that you can ascend into the heavens. And we will not believe in your ascension unless you bring for us a message that we can read.? Say: ?Glory be to my Lord. Am I anything other than a human messenger!?
17:94 And what stopped the people from believing when the guidance came to them, except that they said: ?Has God sent a human messenger??


Green: How highly the people usually regard their (previous) Messengers. Muhammad, Jesus are seldom regarded as common folks.



17:105 And it is with the truth that We have sent it down, and with the truth it came down. And We have not sent you except as a bearer of good news and a warner.

17:110 Say: ?Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your Communion, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.
17:111 And say: ?Praise be to God who has not taken a son, nor does He have a partner in sovereignty, nor does He have an ally out of weakness.? And magnify Him greatly.


Red: Obviously an example of what kind of phrase you can have in your Communion, but it is a conversation or monologue to God and it has a purpose other than parroting phrases as the Pagans. We have proved relatively well in previous examinations that Communion is serves a purpose of communication with The Lord. صلة is a word that connotes communication/connection and several other related meanings and صلاة is not able to change the meaning so much out from the root's meaning.

We have many examples of Communion in The Book where people implore God or talks to God about their issues and so we have in the Bible too. This is the salah one ought to keep.

Green: God has no definite name, but call upon Him by whatever suitable name you find that is honorable.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 07, 2014, 02:10:28 PM
Peace good logic,

The tablets were with written information and they did not contain endless amounts of words but some phrases, a small portion of what people claim. There are no 603 laws or whatever the Jews claim, but they were given some brief commandments and from there the conjecture begun.

The history repeats itself now with "Islam's" sharia laws and the conjecture (hadith) which is out there, while the Message is very simple and one would be fine by simply obeying the text on the tablets from thousands of years ago. If we apply our intellect we can live with the teachings of Moses as they supply enough Guidance together with when we seek the blessings of The Lord.

The question is which faction beats the other in amount of conjecture in rotation.

And I will be threatened and mocked (and perhaps killed) for simply proclaiming the Message, but that is fine because it is a noble mission. Believe and do good and communicate with the Lord and fight injustice. This I stand by.

And I am sorry that I replied in Earthdom's stand.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: good logic on January 07, 2014, 02:47:30 PM
Peace brother.

Actually I practice 604 laws.But they all originate from one single law:

LOVE.        ( Love GOD and love your fellow humans)


GOD bless you

Peace.







Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 07, 2014, 02:49:40 PM
Peace good logic,

The tablets were with written information and they did not contain endless amounts of words but some phrases, a small portion of what people claim. There are no 603 laws or whatever the Jews claim, but they were given some brief commandments and from there the conjecture begun.

The history repeats itself now with "Islam's" sharia laws and the conjecture (hadith) which is out there, while the Message is very simple and one would be fine by simply obeying the text on the tablets from thousands of years ago. If we apply our intellect we can live with the teachings of Moses as they supply enough Guidance together with when we seek the blessings of The Lord.

The question is which faction beats the other in amount of conjecture in rotation.

And I will be threatened and mocked (and perhaps killed) for simply proclaiming the Message, but that is fine because it is a noble mission. Believe and do good and communicate with the Lord and fight injustice. This I stand by.

And I am sorry that I replied in Earthdom's stand.

God bless you

How ironic . . . you accuse others of "conjecture", yet, commit the same crime.  And when you are questioned about this . . . you are NOT able to answer.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 07, 2014, 02:49:48 PM
Peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: The_Chimp on January 07, 2014, 04:47:06 PM
Peace.

Saying this doesn't really help out . . . you will start all over again.

If you are unable to answer . . . then stop making accusations about others. . .  and inventing guff.

- -

Look how quickly your "rubbish" is demolished. If you are genuine . . . learn from it and improve. . . rather than trying to put about that you are some kind of real wise guy.

Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 08, 2014, 12:00:12 AM
Peace,

Okay. Thanks for your input, The Chimp.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 08, 2014, 12:51:47 PM
Chapter 18 Message check

18:1 Praise be to God who has sent down the Message to His servant, and He has not made in it any crookedness.

18:2 It is valuable, giving warning of the severe punishment from Him; and it gives glad tidings to the (1) believers who do (2) good works, that they will have an excellent reward.

18:3 In which they will remain eternally.

Blue/Red: The Message black on white. This is the criteria of God's creed and system.



The cave-dwellers:

18:13 We tell to you their news with the truth. They were youths (1)  who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in Guidance.
18:14 And We made firm their hearts when they stood and said: ?Our Lord, the Lord of the heavens and the earth, we will not call besides Him any god. If we have done so then it was in error.?
18:15 ?Here are our people, they have taken gods besides Him, while they do not come with any clear authority. Who then is more wicked than he who invents lies about God??


This was in a Communion (salah) to God they said this and it is just what it is: communication.

They were so strong in Faith (infused with the Holy Spirit) that God inspired to them:

18:16 ?So when you withdraw from them and what they serve besides God, seek refuge in the cave, and your Lord will spread His mercy upon you and prepare for your problem a solution.?

A reverent Believer should believe that God could possibly go this straight-forward to us and inspire this clearly to us, possibly through an angel though it is not clear from the narration.

Green: They sought God's Nearness and thus they gained Guidance much like in my thread's approach with Nearness and Guidance.



18:27 And recite what has been inspired to you from the Message of your Lord, there is no changing His words, and you will not find besides Him any refuge.

18:30 Those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, We do not waste the reward of those who have done good work.



This narration with the two men who had gardens might make us question what God means with setting up partners with God which is echoed throughout the whole Book. There are no partners as far as I am concerned except his own ego here, so logically it should mean that every instance in The Book follows the same reasoning when it comes to associating partners with God. It could be just anything which you believe is a help other than God in deciding the outcome of things.

18:32 And give them the example of two men: We made for one of them two gardens of grapes, and We surrounded them with palm trees, and We made crops in their midst.
18:33 Each of the two gardens brought forth its produce, and none failed in the least. And We caused a river to gush through them.
18:34 And he had fruit, so he said to his friend while discussing with him: (-2) ?I am better off than you financially, and of great influence.?
18:35 And he went back into his garden while he had wronged himself. He said: ?I do not think that this will ever perish.?
18:36 ?And I do not think that the Hour is coming. And if I am indeed returned to my Lord, then I will surely find even better things for me.?
18:37 His friend said to him while discussing with him: ?Have you disbelieved in the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man??
18:38 ?But He is God, my Lord, and I do not set up any partners at all with my Lord.?
18:39 ?And if you enter your garden, you should say: ?This is what God has given, there is no power except by God.? You see me as being less than you in wealth and in children??
18:40 ?Perhaps my Lord will give me better than your garden, and He will send upon it a tornado from the sky, so it becomes completely barren.?
18:41 ?Or that its water becomes deep under-ground, so you will not be capable of seeking it.?
18:42 So his fruits were ruined, and he began turning his hands at that which he had spent on it while it remained destroyed upon its branches. And he said: ?I wish I had not set up any partner with my Lord!?


Blue: He was pretty arrogant, yes? Well, he seems to have believed but that he could somehow evade the requital from God or he would not have used these words. Perhaps he thought that God actively blessed him and that he was better than the poor (or less rich) and less famous man. The arrogant man disbelieved in the absolute authority of God, but he doubted a bit as he said "if" and talked about "my Lord".



18:54 And We have dispatched in this Book for the people from every example; but man has always been most argumentative.

< --- >

Verses mainly been talking about Moses travel companion and it is a good lesson in it.

18:102 Did those who reject think that they could take My servants as allies besides Me? We have prepared Hell for the rejecters as a dwelling.

Some people think that Muhammad can help them.



18:107 Those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, they will have the gardens of Paradise as a dwelling.



18:109 Say: ?If the sea were an inkwell for the words of my Lord, then the sea would run out before the words of my Lord run out;? even if We were to bring another like it as an extension.

18:110 Say: ?I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him (1) do good works, and (1) not serve anyone besides his Lord.?


What is the matter with you? Do you not think the Lord is right here right now?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 08, 2014, 02:14:32 PM
Chapter 19 Message check

The righteous Zachariah was performing his Communion (salah):

19:2 A reminder of the mercy of your Lord to His servant Zachariah.
19:3 When he called out to his Lord secretly.
19:4 He said: ?My Lord, my bones have gone frail, and my hair has turned white, and I have never been mischievous in imploring You my Lord.?
19:5 ?And I fear the kinfolk after I am gone, and my wife is infertile, so grant me from Yourself an ally.?
19:6 ?To inherit from me, and inherit from the descendants of Jacob. And make him my Lord, well pleasing.?


The Lord responded:

19:7 ?O Zachariah, We give you glad tidings of a son whose name is John. We have not given that name before to anyone.?

Zachariah in return expressed:

19:8 He said: ?My Lord, how can I have a son when my wife is infertile, and I have reached a very old age??

The Lord (Himself) responded again:

19:9 He said: ?It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before, when you were not a thing.?

Purple: It is pretty obvious that the words were inspired directly from the Lord with no middle-hands, probably as he was performing the communication (salah) with God.

19:10 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively.]?

Red: Zachariah is still addressing The Lord indicating that the kind of communication is taking place between him and God. It is possible that God's words are echoing inside the recipient's mind and not like a normal verbal communication. I have myself not had the pleasure of having this kind of clear communication with The Lord, but I believe that it could happen and it is probably not usually happening except in rare cases or when your Faith has reached a certain strength.

19:11 So he went out among his people from the temple enclosure, and he indicated to them that they should glorify Him at dawn and dusk.

Green: Giving fuel to those who propose a two salat schedule. I would say that you ought to glorify and/or commune with Him as often as possible and when required (which ought to be quite often since we implore Him for our needs). But I would be able to agree that the least you can do is glorify The Lord at the both ends of the day.



19:12 ?O John, take the Message with confidence.? And We gave him authority while in his youth.

The standard interpretation (with Book) sounds lame in this phrase while with my "conjecture" Message is slightly better.

19:13 And tenderness from Us, and purity, and he was ever (2) righteous.
19:14 And (2) dutiful to his parents, and never was he a disobedient tyrant.
19:15 And peace be upon him the day he was born, and the day he dies, and the Day he is resurrected alive.


This John was curiously similar to Jesus in his appearance, i.e. how Jesus is usually described, but they are separate persons. It was just an observation.

19:16 And relate in the Message, Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
19:17 So she took a barrier to separate her from them, so We sent Our Spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
19:18 She said: ?I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are righteous.?
19:19 He said: ?I am the Messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son.?
19:20 She said: ?How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such??
19:21 He said: ?It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained.?
19:22 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.
19:23 Then the birth pains came to her, by the trunk of a palm tree. She said: ?I wish I had died before this, and became totally forgotten!?
19:24 But then he called to her from beneath her: ?Do not be sad, your Lord has made below you a stream.?
19:25 ?And shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will cause ripe dates to fall upon you.?
19:26 ?So eat and drink and be content. If you see any human being, then say: ?I have vowed an abstinence for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.??
19:27 Then she came to her people carrying him. They said: ?O Mary, you have come with a thing totally unexpected!?
19:28 ?O sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother has never been unchaste!?
19:29 So she pointed to him. They said: ?How can we talk to someone who is a child in a cradle??
19:30 He said: ?I am a servant of God, He has given me the Message and made me a prophet.?
19:31 ?And He has made me blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with the (1) Communion and Purification as long as I am alive.?
19:32 ?And to be (2) dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a mischievous tyrant.?
19:33 ?And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I am resurrected alive.?
19:34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary, and this is the truth of the matter in which they doubt.
19:35 God was never to take a son, be He glorified. If He decrees a matter, then He simply says to it: ?Be,? and it is.


19:36 And God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him. This is a straight path.



19:41 And recall in the Message, Abraham; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

19:51 And recall in the Message, Moses; he was loyal, and he was a messenger prophet.

19:54 And recall in the Message, Ishmael; he was truthful to his promise, and he was a messenger prophet.

Note: Sometimes the English word 'lore' comes to mind to describe the word phenomenon 'ketaab' in some strange way.

19:55 And he used to instruct his family to the Communion and Purification, and his Lord was pleased with him.

19:56 And recall in the Message, Enoch; he was a man of truth, a prophet.

19:58 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears.



19:59 Then, generations came after them who lost the Communion, and followed desires. They will find their consequences.
19:60 Except for whoever repents and (1) believes and does (2) good works; they will be admitted to the Paradise, and they will not be wronged in the least.


19:62 They will not hear in it any nonsense, only peace. And they will have their provision in it morning and evening.

Red: Too right. No nonsense conjecture they will hear in there.

19:64 ?And we are not sent except by the authority of your Lord. To Him are our present and our future, and all that is in-between. And your Lord was never to forget.?
19:65 ?The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. So serve Him and be patient in His service. Do you know anything that is like Him??


19:70 Then, it is We who are best aware of those who deserve to be burnt therein.

Red: Exactly. God knows and people cannot decide for others. Particularly those who do not obey the Message themselves.

19:76 And God increases the guidance of those who are guided. And the goodness that endures is better with your Lord as a reward and a far better return.



For the Christians:

19:88 And they said the Almighty has taken a son!
19:89 You have come with a gross blasphemy.
19:90 The heavens are about to shatter from it, and the earth crack open, and the mountains fall and crumble.
19:91 That they claimed that the Almighty had a son!
19:92 And what need does the Almighty have to take a son?


Blue: It shows that God strongly disapproves of those who say... the bad words involving a trinity.



19:96 Those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, the Almighty will make for them affection.

19:97 Thus We have made this easy in your tongue so that you may give good news with it to the righteous and that you may warn with it the quarrelsome people.

This was indeed a Book intended for the people who received it, although it does not mean that other people cannot find Guidance in it, but it is not an exclusive Message for Arab-speaking people. The Message is not limited to this Book and:

18:109 Say: ?If the sea were an inkwell for the words of my Lord, then the sea would run out before the words of my Lord run out;? even if We were to bring another like it as an extension.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 09, 2014, 11:33:28 AM
Chapter 20 Message check

20:2 We did not send down to you the Book so you may suffer.
20:3 It is but a reminder for he who is concerned.
20:4 Sent down from the One who has created the earth and the heavens above.


20:8 God, there is no god except He, to Him are the beautiful names.



20:9 And did the narrative of Moses come to you?
20:10 When he saw a fire, he said to his family: ?Stay here, I have seen a fire, perhaps I can bring a piece from it, or find at the fire some guidance.?
20:11 So when he came to it he was called: ?O Moses.?
20:12 ?I am your Lord, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley Tuwa.?
20:13 ?And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired.?
20:14 ?I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and hold the Communion for My remembrance.?


Red: Do you think Moses held his communication with God in Arabic?

20:65 They said: ?O Moses, either you cast down or we will be the first to cast down.?
20:66 He said: ?You cast down.? So their ropes and staffs appeared from their magic as if they were moving.
20:67 And Moses held some fear in himself.
20:68 We said: ?Do not fear, you will best them.?
20:69 ?And cast down what is in your right hand it will consume what they have made. They have only made the plans of a magician, and the magician will not succeed no matter what he does.?
20:70 So the magicians went down in prostration. They said: ?We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses.?


Purple: God's voice probably echoed in his mind because it was likely not aloud on site.



20:74 He who comes to his Lord as a (-2) criminal, he will have Hell, where he will neither die in it nor live.
20:75 And he who comes to Him as a (1) believer doing (2) good works, for those will be the highest ranks.




20:83 ?And what has caused you to rush ahead of your people O Moses??
20:84 He said: ?They are coming in my tracks, and I came quickly to you my Lord so you would be pleased.?
20:85 He said: ?We have tested your people after you left, and the Sumerian misguided them.?


Purple: Likely a rhetorical question because God certainly knew anyway.



20:87 They said: ?We did not break the promise by our own will, but we were loaded down with the jewelry of the people so we cast them down, and it was such that the Sumerian suggested.?
20:88 He then produced for them a sculpture of a calf that emitted a cry. So they said: ?This is your god and the god of Moses, but he had forgotten!?
20:89 Did they not see that it did not respond to them? Nor did it possess for them any harm or benefit?

Blue: Man has always a need to materialize God. It does not matter when and what. For the Christians it was Jesus because God is unseen. And man has furthermore materialized The Book (Qur'an) too much too.



20:103 They whisper among themselves: ?You have only been away for a period of ten.?
20:104 We are fully aware of what they say, for the best among them will say: ?No, you have only been away for a day.?


Green: It will feel like nothing when you are through with your life. You will see how short your life really was, and if you have done many vain things you will also regret that.

20:112 And whoever does any (2) good works, (1) while he is a believer, then he should not fear injustice nor being given less than his due.

20:113 And it was such that We sent it down an Arabic book, and We dispatched in it the warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause them to remember.
20:114 Then High above all is God, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Book before its inspiration is completed to you, and say: ?My Lord, increase my knowledge.?


20:124 ?And whoever turns away from My remembrance, then he will have a miserable life, and We will raise him blind on the Day of Resurrection.?

20:130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and at parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.

Red: Compare this verse with this one:

19:11 So he went out among his people from the temple enclosure, and he indicated to them that they should glorify Him at dawn and dusk.

20:131 And do not crave with your eyes what We have bestowed upon some couples from them; the flower of the worldly life; so as to test them in it; and the provision of your Lord is better and more lasting.
20:132 And instruct your family to the Communion, and be patient for it. We do not ask you for provision, for We provide for you. And the ending will be for righteousness.


Red: The reason you keep Communion is to implore God for provisions and other things, plus show appreciation and simply communicate with your ally, God.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 10, 2014, 01:53:31 PM
Chapter 21 Message check

21:2 When a reminder comes to them from their Lord that is recent, they listen to it while playing.

21:7 And We did not send before you except men whom We inspired to. So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know.

21:10 We have sent down to you a Message in which is your remembrance. Do you not comprehend?



What do those who do not believe do wrong really? It is the opposite of the Message I have been discussing in this thread. Check here:

21:11 And how many a town have We destroyed because (-2) it was wicked, and We established after them a different people?
21:12 So it was that when they perceived Our power, they were running from it.
21:13 ?Do not run, and come back to that which you were living lavishly in and your homes; so that you will be questioned.?
21:14 They said: ?Woe to us, (-2) we have been wicked!?


Blue: They act with injustice, arrogance and evil deeds etc and it is not purely because they do not believe God punishes them.



The Believers glorify The Lord around the clock:

21:20 (1) They glorify in the night and the day, they do not cease.



21:24 Or have they taken gods besides Him? Say: ?Bring your proof. This is a reminder of those with me and a reminder of those before me.? But, most of them do not know the truth, so they turn away.

21:25 And We did not send any Messenger before you except that We inspired him that: (1) ?There is no god except Me, so serve Me.?

21:28 He knows their present and their future, and they cannot intercede unless it is for those whom He is pleased with. And, from His concern, they are worried.

Green: And many people think that Muhammad can intercede on their behalf if they only follow their sect's dogma.

21:35 Every soul will taste death. And We burden you with evil and good as a test, and it is to Us that you will return.

Red: People are tested, but once we unconditionally believe in God with our hearts then there is less harsh testing, or we feel it as less harsh because we trust the Lord. But it is certain that God would not harshly test someone He knows would not fail to believe because God would not pain His servants which are stable in Faith.

21:45 Say: ?I am merely warning you with the inspiration.? But the deaf do not hear the call when they are being warned.

Red: Yes. Merely warning...

21:48 And We had given Moses and Aaron the Criterion, a shining light, and reminder for the righteous.

Red: I am relatively sure that this is the tablets in stone with the short set of rules.

21:50 And this is a blessed reminder which We have sent down. Will you be deniers of it?

21:73 And We made them leaders who guide by Our command, and We inspired them to do (2) good works and hold the (1) Communion and contribute towards Purification, and they were in service to Us.

21:75 And We admitted him into Our mercy. He was of the (2) good doers.

21:77 And We granted him victory against the people who denied Our revelations. They were a people of (-2) evil, so We drowned them all.

21:86 And We admitted them in Our mercy, they were of the (2) good doers.

21:90 So We responded to him, and We granted him John, and We cured his wife. They used to hasten to do (2) good, and they would (1) call to Us in joy and in fear. And of Us they were (1) reverent.

21:92 This is your nation, one nation, and I am your Lord so serve Me.



21:94 So whoever does (2) good works and he is a (1) believer, then his efforts will not be rejected and We will record it for him.



21:105 And We have written in the Psalms: ?After the remembrance, that the Earth will be inherited by My servants who do good.?

This is a well-known phrase to those who call themselves Christian. The funny thing is that people think the Message is something completely different. Shaytaan manages to divert people from the path in various ways, from sons to Pagan rituals.

21:106 In this is a proclamation for a people who serve.
21:107 And We have not sent you except as a mercy to the worlds.
21:108 Say: ?It is inspired to me that your god is but One god, so will you submit to Him??


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 10, 2014, 02:13:28 PM
Chapter 22 Message check

22:8 And from the people are those who argue regarding God with no Knowledge nor Guidance nor enlightening Message.

22:14 God admits those who (1) believe and do (2) good works to estates with rivers flowing beneath them. God does as He wishes.

22:16 And as such, We have sent down clear revelations, and God guides whoever He wishes.



22:17 Surely those who (1) believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, and the Majoos, (and the "Muslims"); and those who were polytheists; God will separate between them on the Day of Resurrection. For God is witness over all things.

22:23 God will admit those who (1) believe and do (2) good works to estates with rivers flowing beneath them, wherein they will be adorned with bracelets of gold and pearls, and their garments will be of silk.

22:24 And they are guided to the (2) good sayings, and guided to the path of the Praiseworthy.



22:35 Those who, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence, and they are patient to what befalls them, and they hold the (1) Communion, and from what We provide them they spend.

22:49 Say: ?O people, I am but a clear warner to you!?
22:50 As for those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, for them is a forgiveness and a great provision.


22:56 The sovereignty on that Day is to God, He will judge between them. So as for those who have (1) believed and did (2) good works, they are in gardens of bliss.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 10, 2014, 02:28:54 PM
Chapter 23 Message check

23:2 Those who are humble when making their (1) Communion.
23:3 And they (2) abstain from vain talk.
23:4 And they are (2) active towards purification.
23:5 And they (2) keep covered their private parts.


23:9 And those who maintain their (1) Communions.

23:49 And We have given Moses the Message, so that they may be guided.

23:51 ?O messengers, eat from what is good, and do (2) good work. I am aware of what you do.?

23:57 As for those who are, from the (1) concern of their Lord, worried.
23:58 And they (1) believe in the revelations of their Lord.
23:59 And they (1) do not set up anything with their Lord.
23:60 And they (2) give of what they were given, and their hearts are full of reverence that they will return to their Lord.
23:61 These are the ones who race in doing (2) good, and they are the first to it.
23:62 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.



When it is all over the time on Earth will not feel long at all for us:

23:112 He said: ?How long have you stayed in the earth in terms of years??
23:113 They said: ?We remained for a day, or for part of a day. So ask those who kept count.?
23:114 He said: ?You have remained for very little, if only you knew.?


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 13, 2014, 01:40:22 PM
Chapter 24 Message check

I skip the verses in the beginning of this which involve 'zina' because I am not inspired enough to understand their real meaning, but I have a hard time to accept that it means to lash those who commit adultery and then the whole first part of the chapter to be linguistically formed the way it is. My bet would be that the true story is the way brother noshirk has laid forth with giving false testimony.

24:36 In homes that God has permitted to be raised, and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein in the mornings and the evenings.
24:37 By men not distracted by trade or sale from the (1) remembrance of God and holding the Communion, and contributing towards Purification. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight will be overturned.
24:38 God will reward them for the (2) best of what they did, and He will increase them from His grace. And God provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.


Red: This phrase is recurring several times as if there are only two Communions per day, or God would never had places with only two glorification moments.



24:41 Do you not see that everything in the heavens and the earth glorifies God? Even the birds in formation, each knows its Communion and its glorification. And God is fully aware of everything they do.

Red: The traditional understanding of salat as contact prayer does not make any sense at all in this verse. It simply cannot mean prayer in that regard. It is only communion, communication, tie or bonding that the word can mean, if you respect my humble opinion.

Remember this extract from the dictionary (green):

com‧mun‧ion / kəˈmyunyən / noun

2 [ uncountable ]              formal              a special relationship with someone or something which makes you feel that you understand them very well
between/​with                   
▪ In the mountains, I feel in communion with nature.



24:46 We have sent down to you clarifying revelations, and God guides whoever He wills to a straight path.



24:47 And they say: ?We believe in God and in the messenger, and we obey,? but a group of them turn away after that. These are not believers.
24:48 And if they are invited to God and His messenger to judge between them, a party of them turn away.
24:49 But, if the judgment is in their favor, they come to him readily!
24:50 Is there a disease in their hearts, or are they doubtful? Or do they fear that God and His messenger would wrong them in the judgment? In fact, they are the wrong doers.
24:51 The utterance of the believers when they are invited to God and His messenger to judge in their affairs is to say: ?We hear and obey.? These are the winners.
24:52 And whoever obeys God and His messenger, and is concerned by God, and aware of Him, then these are the winners.
24:53 And they swear by God with their strongest oaths that if you would only command them they would mobilize. Say: ?Do not swear, for obedience is an obligation. God is Expert over what you do.?
24:54 Say: ?Obey God, and obey the messenger.? But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. And if you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.


Above verses are abused to validate hadith of Muhammad and such as that we ought to obey a Muhammad who has been dead for around 1400 years even if he left behind a noble testament to God's Message.



24:55 God promises those among you who (1) believe and do (2) good works, that He will make them successors on the earth, as He made successors of those before them, and He will enable for them their system which He has approved for them, and He will substitute security for them in place of fear: ?That they serve Me, not setting up anything with Me.? And as for those who reject after that, these are the wicked.
24:56 And hold the Communion and contribute towards Purification, and obey the messenger, that you may attain mercy.


24:58 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times: before the dawn Communion, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening Communion. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

Red: Again two Communions with the morning and evening style.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 13, 2014, 01:52:54 PM
Chapter 25 Message check

25:30 And the messenger said: ?My Lord, my people have deserted this Book.?
25:31 And it is so that We make for every prophet enemies from among the criminals. And your Lord suffices as a Guide and a Victor.
25:32 And those who rejected said: ?If only the Book was sent down to him in one go!? It was done as such so We could strengthen your heart with it, and We arranged it accordingly.
25:33 And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation.
25:34 Those who will be gathered to Hell on their faces, these are the most evil and the most strayed from the path.
25:35 And We gave Moses the Message and We made his brother Aaron a minister with him.


25:56 And We have not sent you except as a bearer of good news and a warner.
25:57 Say: ?I do not ask you for any wage; but for whoever chooses to make a path to his Lord.?
25:58 And put your trust in the Eternal Who does not die, and glorify His praise. It is enough for Him that He is expert in the sins of His servants.


25:70 Except for the one who repents and (1) believes and (2) does good works, for those God will replace their sins with good, and God is Forgiving, Merciful.
25:71 And whoever repents, and does (2) good, then he shall repent towards God a true repentance.
25:72 And those who (2) do not bear false witness, and if they pass by vain talk they pass by with dignity.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 14, 2014, 11:26:29 AM
Chapter 26 Message check

26:2 These are the signs of the Message of clarity.

26:7 Did they not look to the earth, how many plants have We raised in it, from each a good pair.
26:8 In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.


Green: A good portion of The Book goes to give very good reasons why to believe in God, and why it is illogical not to believe in Him.

26:10 And when your Lord called to Moses: ?Go to the people who are (-2) wicked.?
26:11 ?The people of Pharaoh. Will they not be (2) righteous??


26:18 He said: ?Did we not raise you among us as a new born, and you stayed with us for many of your years??
26:19 ?And you did that (-2) deed you did, and you are of the rejecters.?
26:20 He said: (-2) ?I did it, and I was of those misguided.?
26:21 ?So I ran away from you all, for I feared you. So my Lord granted me judgment, and made me of the messengers.?


Red: In the narration it is quite clear that Moses committed a sin when he killed one of Pharaoh's people. Not only this case but also where Moses has a Communion with God. Moses however repented and reformed and was overall a righteous person and God guided him.



26:82 (Abraham:) ?And the One whom I hope will forgive my mistakes on the Day of Recompense.?

Green: He would not have prayed this way if he was an infallible Prophet and without sin as many people seem to believe. Obviously the same goes for all the Prophets and Messengers but people still think that there are infallible people who bring forth the Message.



26:106 When their brother Noah said to them: ?Will you not be (2) righteous??
26:107 ?I am to you a trustworthy messenger.?
26:108 ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
26:109 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:110 ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
26:111 They said: ?Shall we believe to you when the lowest type of people have followed you??
26:112 He said: ?And what knowledge do I have of what they used to do??
26:113 ?Their judgment is on my Lord, if you could know.?
26:114 ?And I will not drive away the believers.?
26:115 ?I am but a clear warner.?


Red: The obedience command from The Book is so abused to authorize the use of hadith of the Prophet, but it comes only to the judgment that the Messenger makes among the people in those situations of disputes in regards of justice or that they should obey him in that to serve The Lord alone. The obedience is to follow the Prophet so that their living is righteous in deeds.



26:123 ?Aad denied the messengers.
26:124 For their brother Hud said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??
26:125 ?I am to you a clear messenger.?
26:126 ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
26:127 ?And I do not ask you for any wage, for my reward is upon the Lord of the worlds.?
26:128 (-2) ?Do you build on every high place a symbol, for the sake of vanity!?
26:129 ?And you take for yourselves strongholds, perhaps you will live forever??
26:130 (-2) ?And if you attack, you strike ruthlessly??
26:131 ?So be aware of God and obey me.?
26:132 ?And be aware of the One who provided you with what you know.?
26:133 ?He provided you with livestock and sons.?
26:134 ?And gardens and springs.?
26:135 ?I fear for you the retribution of a great day?




26:141 Thamud denied the messengers.
26:142 For their brother Saleh said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??


26:151 ?And do not obey the command of the carefree.?
26:152 (-2) ?The ones who corrupt in the land and are not reformers.?




26:160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
26:161 For their brother Lot said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??


26:165 (-2) ?Do you approach the males of the worlds??
26:166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!?




26:174 In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.



26:176 The people of the Sycamore disbelieved the messengers.
26:177 For Shu?ayb said to them: (2) ?Will you not be righteous??


26:181 (2) ?Give full measure and do not be of those who cause losses.?
26:182 ?And weigh with the balance that is straight.?
26:183 ?And do not defraud the people of their belongings, and do not venture into the land corrupting.?
26:184 (1) ?And be aware of the One who has created you and the generations of old.?




God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 14, 2014, 11:51:54 AM
Chapter 27 Message check

27:1 T?S, these are the signs of the Book and a clear Message.
27:2 A guide and good news to the believers.
27:3 Those who hold the Communion, and contribute towards Purification, and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.


27:6 And you are receiving the Book from One who is Wise, Knowledgeable.

27:9 ?O Moses, it is I God, the Noble, the Wise.?
27:10 ?And cast down your staff.? So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he ran away and would not turn back. ?O Moses, do not fear, for My messengers shall have no fear from Me.?
27:11 ?Except he who has done wrong. But then if he replaces the evil deed with good, then I am Forgiving, Merciful.?




27:45 And We have sent to Thamud their brother Saleh: (1) ?You shall serve God.? But they became two disputing groups.
27:46 He said: (-2) ?My people, why do you hasten with evil ahead of good? If you would only seek the forgiveness of God, perhaps you will receive mercy.?
27:47 They said: ?You have an ill omen with you and those with you.? He said: ?Your ill omen is with God, but you are a people who are being tested.?
27:48 And in the city were nine ruffians who were (-2) causing corruption in the land, and they were not reforming.




27:76 This Book tells to the Children of Israel most of that which they are in dispute over.
27:77 And it is a guidance and a mercy for the believers.


27:91 ?I have been ordered to (1) serve the Lord of this land that He has made restricted, and to Him are all things, and I have been ordered to be of those who submit.?
27:92 ?And that I recite the Book.? He who is guided is guided for himself, and to he who is misguided, say: ?I am but one of the warners.?
27:93 Say: ?Praise be to God, He will show you His signs and you will know them. And your Lord is not unaware of what you do.?


Green: The Messenger says his orders here. He is ordered to read The Book (Qur'an) for the people as well as serve the Lord. That is his responsibility. It is not mentioned that we should follow any other source of rules for the system of God such as hadith of Muhammad. The system has become much like the Jews with 603 laws. History repeats itself. So instead of a dozen rules or two there are several hundred laws. It is as if groups compete who can break the record of having most religious rules.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 15, 2014, 12:59:22 PM
Chapter 28 Message check

28:2 These are the signs of the clear Message.

28:4 Pharaoh became mighty in the land, and he turned its people into factions; he (-2) oppressed a group of them by killing their children and raping their women. He was of those who corrupted.
28:5 And (2) We wanted to help those who were oppressed in the land, and to make them leaders, and to make them the inheritors.


Red: It is also a mission for the Believers and why God is advocating warfare in The Book, to uphold or restore justice.

28:8 Then the family of Pharaoh picked him up, so he would be an enemy to them and a source of sadness. Certainly, Pharaoh and Haamaan and their troops were (-2) wrongdoers.

28:14 And when he reached his independence and was established, We bestowed him with wisdom and knowledge. We thus reward the (2) good doers.

28:15 And he entered the city unexpectedly, without being noticed by the people. He found in it two men who were fighting, one was from his clan, and the other was from that of his enemy. So the one who was from his clan called on him for help against his enemy, whereby Moses punched him, (-2) killing him. He said: ?This is from the work of the devil; he is an enemy that clearly misleads.?
28:16 He said: ?My Lord, I have wronged my soul, so forgive me.? He then forgave him, for He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.
28:17 He said: ?My Lord, for what blessings you have bestowed upon me, I will never be a supporter for the criminals.?
28:18 So he spent the night in the city, afraid and watchful. Then the one who sought his help yesterday, was asking again for his help. Moses said to him: (-2) ?You are clearly a trouble maker.?
28:19 But when he was about to strike their common enemy, he said: ?O Moses, do you want to kill me, (-2) as you killed that person yesterday? Obviously, you wish to be a tyrant on the earth; you do not wish to be of the righteous.?
28:20 And a man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: ?O Moses, the commanders are plotting to kill you, so leave immediately. I am giving you good advice.?
28:21 He exited the city, afraid and watchful. He said: ?My Lord, save me from the wicked people.?


Moses sinned in this narration, that is obvious, and so much for the infallibility of the Messengers and Prophets. However, Moses repented and reformed, sought God's Nearness and received Guidance so he was forgiven even an unjustified murder. One of the moral issues here was that Moses killed the adversary without even questioning the motives of his fellow, and nearly doing so the same a second time.

Brown: You see that the one of Moses' people repeatedly got himself into trouble, and Moses could have as well helped the one of his people where that one assaulted Pharaoh's people unrighteously.



28:22 And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said: ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.?
28:23 When he arrived at the watering hole of Midyan, he found a crowd of people watering, and he found two women waiting on the side. He said: ?What is holding you back.? They said: ?We cannot draw water until the shepherds finish, and our father is an old man.?
28:24 (2) So he drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?
28:25 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said: ?My father invites you to reward you for watering for us.? So when he came to him, and told to him the stories, he said: ?Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people.?
28:26 One of the two women said: ?O my father, hire him. For the best to be hired is one who is strong and honest.?
28:27 He said: ?I wish you to marry one of my two daughters, (2) on condition that you work for me through eight pilgrimage periods; if you complete them to ten, it will be (2) voluntary on your part. I do not wish to make this matter too difficult for you. You will find me, God willing, of the righteous.?
28:28 He said: ?It is then an agreement between me and you. Whichever period I fulfill, you will not be averse to either one. And God is entrusted over what we said.?

It is pretty obvious in the narration that God affects the timeline actively depending on the actions that we take, both from this case and the previous one with the troublesome fellow. God is aware of everything that happens and does have control of every atom, and thus also the course of action. Moses had Communion with the Lord and had trust in Him and the responses to this was that he got blessings from God interactively during the events. Same happens to us in our daily lives even if many people are ignorant or blind to this fact. And God listens to someone with a strong bond to Him and as much as the case with the two men with gardens comes to mind where the utterances of one of them came true. These have been people aware of God and they had a strong Communion. Hope you do not see that I ramble on in ignorance but that I base this logical deductions and conclusions.

28:29 So after Moses fulfilled his obligation and was traveling with his family, he saw a fire on the slope of the mount. He said to his family: ?Stay here, I have seen a fire, perhaps I can bring you from there some news or a burning piece of the fire so that you may be warmed.?


Green: You see that Moses fulfilled his pledge, and further blessings waited ahead:

28:30 So when he reached it, he was called from the edge of the right side of the valley at the blessed area of the tree: ?O Moses, it is I, God, Lord of the worlds.?

20:12 ?I am your Lord, so take off your slippers; you are in the holy valley Tuwa.?
20:13 ?And I have chosen you, so listen to what is being inspired.?
20:14 ?I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and hold the Communion for My remembrance.?
20:15 ?The Hour is coming, I am nearly keeping it hidden, so that every soul will be recompensed with what it strived.?
20:16 ?So do not be deterred from it by he who does not believe in it and followed his desire and perished.?
20:17 ?And what is in your right hand O Moses??
20:18 He said: ?It is my staff, I lean on it, and I guide my sheep with it, and I have other uses in it.?
20:19 He said: ?Cast it down O Moses.?

28:31 ?And cast down your staff.? So when he saw it vibrate as if it were a Jinn, he turned around to flee and would not return. ?O Moses, come forward and do not be afraid. You are of those who are safe.?

20:20 So he cast it down, and it became a moving serpent!
20:21 He said: ?Take it and do not be fearful, We will turn it back to its previous form.?
20:22 ?And place your hand under your arm, it will come out white without blemish, as another sign.?
20:23 ?This is to show you Our great signs.?

28:32 ?Place your hand into your pocket. It will come out white without any blemish, and fold your hand close to your side against fear. These are two proofs from your Lord, to Pharaoh and his commanders; for they are a wicked people.?

20:24 ?Go to Pharaoh, for he has transgressed.?
20:25 He said: ?My Lord, comfort for me my chest.?


The two chapters 20 and 28 portray the same story with different wordings. It does not necessarily mean that it is false, but the Communions and the inspired words may have been repeated more than once, and we know that Moses was very afraid of going back to Pharaoh and his people.



28:38 And Pharaoh said: (-1) ?O commanders, I have not known of any god for you other than me. Therefore, O Haamaan, fire-up the bricks and make for me a high platform, so perhaps I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is one of the liars.?
28:39 And he and his soldiers were (-2) arrogant in the land without any right, and they thought that they would not be returned to Us.


28:43 We had given Moses the Message (or the Lore) after We had destroyed the earlier generations; as an example for the people and a Guidance and a Mercy, perhaps they will take heed.
28:44 And you were not on the western slope when We decreed the command to Moses. You were not a witness.
28:45 And We established many generations, and many ages passed them by. And you were not living among the people of Midyan, reciting Our revelations to them. But We were to send messengers.
28:46 And nor were you on the side of the mount when We called. But it is a mercy from your Lord, so that you may warn a people who received no warner before you, perhaps they may take heed.


Green: The teachings (Torah) of Moses stem from here and the famous commandments.



28:49 Say: ?Then bring forth a message from God that is better than them in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful.?
28:50 But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than he who (-2) follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people.
28:51 And We have delivered the information, perhaps they may take heed.
28:52 Those to whom We had given the Message before this, they will believe in it.
28:53 And if it is recited to them, they say: (3) ?We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had submitted before it.?
28:54 To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they (2) counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give.
28:55 (2) And if they come across vain talk, they disregard it and say: ?To us are our deeds, and to you are your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not seek the ignorant.?
28:56 You cannot guide whom you love. But it is God who guides whom He wills; and He is fully aware of those who receive the guidance.


Teal: Sadly enough we cannot guide anyone unless they are open to Guidance, and they need Nearness for that.

28:67 As for the one who repents, (1) believes, and does (2) good works; perhaps he will be with the winners.

28:83 Such will be the abode of the Hereafter; We reserve it for those who (2) do not seek prestige on the earth, nor corruption; and the ending will be for the righteous.
28:84 Whoever brings forth a (2) good deed, he will receive a better reward than it. And whoever brings forth a (-2) sin then the retribution for their sins will be to the extent of their deeds.
28:85 Surely, the One who decreed the Book to you will summon you to a predetermined appointment. Say: ?My Lord is fully aware of who it is that brings the guidance, and who has gone astray.?
28:86 Nor did you expect this Message to come your way; but this is a mercy from your Lord. Therefore, you shall not side with the rejecters.
28:87 Nor shall you be diverted from the revelations of God after they have come to you. (1) And invite to your Lord. And do not be of the polytheists.
28:88 And do not call besides God any god, there is no god except He. Everything will fade away except His face. To Him is the judgment, and to Him you will be returned.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 17, 2014, 12:29:02 PM
Chapter 29 Message check

29:7 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works, We will cancel their sins and We will reward them in the best for what they did.

Red: We can note this phrase in the sentence. It is about being a good character even if we will have our sins, even the best of us. The longer we live under the consciousness of God's supremacy and know that we will be held responsible even if we are not able to become sinless the better for us and God will surely remit the sins, except for the one we know that association of partners with God is unforgivable. Our deeds will have prevalence if they are of the good character while the sins will given only a minor affection although grave sins will of course weigh heavier. But even sins of heavier character may be forgiven if we have many other good qualities. Remember that Moses was forgiven for (perhaps) unjustified murder and Jonah disobeyed a direct order from God. It is deeds of the evil type while with very little charitable deeds that will make people feel sweaty in the courtroom of God at the end of days. One charitable deed every now and then will simply not cut it against all the sins or other evils, such as giving even an generous sum of money if we follow that charity with insults or bad behavior, even though not towards the recipient of the charity but other people. The Book also has verses which prove my words. Look it up yourselves. If we strive to do good and believe then God will give us Nearness and Guidance which will eventually lead to Peace and Prosperity :yes

29:8 And We instructed man to be (2) good to his parents. But if they strive to make you (-1) set up partners with Me, then do not obey them. To Me are all your destinies, and I will inform you of what you used to do.
29:9 And those who (1) believed and did (2) good works, We will admit them with the righteous.




29:27 And We granted him (Lot) Isaac and Jacob, and We made within his progeny the prophethood and the Message. And We gave him his reward in this world, and in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
29:28 And Lot, when he said to his people: (-2) ?You commit an immorality that no others in the world have done before!?
29:29 (-2) ?You sexually approach men, and you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society.? But the only response from his people was to say: ?Bring us the retribution of God, if you are being truthful!?


Red: The homosexual deeds were not the only misdoings Lot's people did as per this sentence, although it seems obvious that it was a sin in the narration.

29:32 He said: ?But Lot is in it!? They said: ?We are fully aware of who is in it. We will save him and his family, except his wife; she is of those doomed.?
29:33 And when Our messengers came to Lot, they were (-2) mistreated, and he was embarrassed towards them. And they said: ?Do not fear, and do not be saddened. We will save you and your family, except for your wife; she is of those doomed.?


Blue: I have wondered why Lot's wife was of those sinners. So it can not only have been a patriarchal issue where the men disregarded the women and carried out same-sex intercourse.



29:36 And to Midyan was their brother Shu?ayb. He said: ?O my people, (1) serve God and seek the Last Day, (2) and do not roam the earth corrupting.?

29:38 And ?Aad and Thamud. Much was made apparent to you from their dwellings. (-2) The devil had adorned their works in their eyes, thus he diverted them from the path, even though they could see.
29:39 And Qaroon, and Pharaoh, and Haamaan; Moses went to them with clear proofs. But they (-2) became arrogant in the land, and they were not the first.




29:44 God created the heavens and the earth with truth. In that is a sign for the faithful.

Red: God takes the simplest yet penetrating parable to tell that in it is a sign. Verily it is a great sign simply to reflect upon our existence itself.

29:45 Recite what is inspired to you of the Message and hold the Communion, for the Communion prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

Green: When you keep the tie to God then you can prevent immorality and vice because you reach God's Nearness and Guidance, and it will shield against the temptations of the evil one and your own sinful nature. When you are conscious of God then that will affect your decisions in life and God will help you refrain from deeds of the evil character if you have His Guidance and have put your trust in Him.

29:46 And do not argue with the people of the Lore except in that which is better; except for those who are wicked among them; and say: ?We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is the same; to Him we submit.?
29:47 And similarly, We have sent down to you the Lore. Thus, those whom We have given the Lore will believe in it. Also, some of your people will believe in it. The only ones who mock Our revelations are the rejecters.
29:48 You were not reciting any Lore before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.


Above: Could not help but use the word lore in the context.  :muscle: I am all for that the wording does not carry a concrete meaning in the narration and has proved to be more logical in another of my posts before in the case of Abraham who would have had insight of the future in case it would mean a physical book.

29:49 In fact, it is a clear revelation in the chests of those who have been given knowledge. And it is only the wicked who doubt Our revelations.  :yes
29:50 And they said: ?If only signs would come down to him from his Lord!? Say: ?All signs are with God, and I am but a clear warner.?
29:51 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Lore that is being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.


The sentences make it difficult to assume there is a fixed compilation from God. The people wanted physical proof while all he seems to have showed them was things he wrote down through inspiration and they were not content with this kind of revelation. It does make it awkward to see that there has been a book like the Bible of God's words. However, a set of stone tablets with obvious revelation from God springs to mind as appear to have been given to Moses, i.e. precompiled right from God. A few of the people who heard Muhammad's recitations understood that he was blessed with Knowledge from God however, the same as those of us here today approximately 1400 years later and few have understood the Message or Lore that it conveys. For us it is quite obvious that they are inspired by God and "hadith" that were God's own words, to preserve a word from Arabic.

In the case of The Book (Qur'an) people had no such proof or any other sign of God's miracles except the Lore that Muhammad recited to them right out of inspiration, written down or not. The Lore that came out of his mouth or pen was a sign in itself, and verily God's pen does never run out of ink. I do not know how it is for you, but to me there is no other book than The Book and apart from that you have what was given physically to Moses, the Torah (teachings) of Moses and the modified Lore given to Jesus as kind of news for the Believers and warnings for those who disobey God. In my humble opinion what Jesus message was as an "attitude change" in the interpretation of the Torah. Do you not agree with this? Jesus wrote no books but certainly became part of the Lore.

The Book is seemingly flawless but for some reason we do not comprehend all of it due to interpretation issues which cannot be blamed on God for. Several of the corruptions (non-physical) have been solved on this forum and for that I am glad, and I or anyone else is not to be thanked for that nor for anything else of the Truth that we unwind here but we ought to thank THE LORD. Those who complain that we commit a blasphemy while we recite the true Lore they can keep to their faith. I have, in my personal opinion, found an interpretation of The Book that I find is more fair towards God and the Lore. It is this point I try to prove in this thread for those who are mentally ready, so bare with me if you are not convinced yet and I apologize for my inability to convince, may my Lord and your Lord help me do better. One thing is important though and that is you could do this work without listening (or reading) my words and that is check out yourselves by applying the simplest possible meaning to words and their impact on the creed (traditionally called religion) and see that if you do not treat 'as-salat', for example, as contact prayer then it opens a whole new horizon. That is not the word's meaning by applying logic because you cannot invent such extensive meaning to such a simple word and which appear in sentences where "contact prayer" cannot be its meaning without humiliating God's intellect.



Let us return to the narration of God and to the (1), (2) and sometimes (3) to see what the Lore really tells us.

29:52 Say: ?God is enough as a witness between me and you. He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. As for those who believe in falsehood and reject God, they are the losers.?

Indeed you can choose to believe in falsehood or consider the above section.

29:58 And those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, We will settle them in mansions in the Paradise, with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein. Excellent is the reward for the workers.
29:59 They are the ones who were patient, and put their trust in their Lord.


29:61 And if you ask them: ?Who has created the heavens and the earth, and put the sun and the moon in motion?? They will say: ?God.? Why then did they deviate?

It appears that people of the narration believe in God or know of His existence but they mix up Truth with falsehood.

29:65 When they ride on a ship, they call on God, devoting the system to Him. But as soon as He saves them to the shore, they set up partners.

They are hypocrites or forgetful; they set up partners on the shore but what The Book, due to interpretation issues or whatnot, seems not to convey translated into English is that associating partners with God can also be by forgetting about God and then serve your own ego. Remember the narration with the two men and their gardens where the one man seems to have revered his own big ego. The association problem is both on concrete and abstract level and thus turns intransitive.

29:66 Let them reject what We have given them, and let them enjoy; for they will come to know.
29:67 Have they not seen that We have established a safe territory, while all around them the people are in constant danger? Would they still (-1, -3) believe in falsehood, and reject the blessings of God?
29:68 Who is more evil than he who (-1, -3) fabricates lies and attributes them to God, or denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not a place in Hell for the rejecters?
29:69 As for those who (2) strive in Our cause, We will guide them to Our paths. For God is with the (1) pious.


Note: You saw me using Lore instead of Message in this post and I might permanently make this switch because it seems a better choice of word. Lore connotes something abstract that is a kind of message and information about something. See this from a dictionary:

lore / lɔr / noun [ uncountable ]
              knowledge or information about a subject, for example nature or magic, that is not written down but that one person tells to another person :
▪ According to local lore, a the castle is haunted.
 
What is in the Book is written down but the whole story from start to finish is like lore. "According to the lore of The Book, God is for real"

When we untie ourselves from the obsession with material things then we might understand God's words.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 17, 2014, 01:29:14 PM
Chapter 30 Lore check

(and I am not inventing new meanings for the words but only (trying to be) translating them into plain English)

30:15 So, those who (1) believed and did (2) good works, they will be delighted in a luxurious place.

30:17 So glory be to God, when you retire and when you wake.
30:18 And to Him is all praise in the heavens and the earth, and in the evening and when you go out.


Red: And here goes the two-Communion argument again, if we talk about traditional fixed timings for prayers or communication with the Lord. Notice the switch between the two sentences and glorification when you retire and wake and after that و (and) praise God of Heavens and Earth and in the evening and when you go out. It would appear to mean outside of those two occasions as mentioned in the previous sentence. That does not say that one cannot commune with The Lord at any time though. Call upon The Lord when you need Him; He is always there listening and answering those who call to Him as He pleases. In certain parts of The Book God implies that Communion should be performed when making decisions, such as in judicial matters. It would seem that Communion (salat) has a deeper meaning than meaningless parroting of preprogrammed phrases.

30:30 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the inclination that God has nurtured the people on. There is no changing in the creation of God. Such is the pure system, but most of the people do not know.
30:31 (1) Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the Communion, and do not be of the polytheists.


Keep being in a symbiosis with God, to use a modern word that likely did not exist 1000 years ago:
(1600-1700 Modern Latin Greek, from 'symbios' living together)

But forget the part of the meaning that they depend on each other, it is only one-way symbiosis  :rotfl:



30:32 From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.
30:33 And if harm afflicts the people, they call out sincerely to their Lord. But then, when He gives them a taste of His mercy, a group of them set up partners with their Lord!


Green: Well, they have an as-salat which means something entirely invented even if they get the contact part right.
Blue: Some of them might turn to Muhammad or Jesus for consolation, so this expression is entirely true.



30:37 Did they not see that God grants the provisions for whom He wills, and He is able? In that are signs for a people who (1) believe.
30:38 So (2) give the relative his due, and the poor, and the wayfarer. That is best for those who seek the face of God, and they are the successful ones.
30:39 And any (-2) usury you have taken to grow from the money of the people, it will not grow with God. And any (2) contribution that you have placed seeking the face of God, then those will be multiplied.




30:40 God is the One who has created you, then He provided for you, then He puts you to death, then He brings you to life. (-1) Is there any among the partners you set up that can do any of this? Be He glorified and exalted above what they set up.
30:41 (-2) Corruption has appeared in the land and the sea at the hands of the people by what they earn. He will make them taste some of what they have done, perhaps they will return.
30:42 Say: ?Roam the earth and see how the end was for those before. Most of them were polytheists.?
30:43 (2) So establish yourself to the system which is straight, before a Day comes from God that none can avert. On that Day they shall be separated.
30:44 Whoever (-1) rejects, then he will suffer his rejection; and whoever does (2) good works, then it is for themselves that they are preparing a good place.
30:45 So that He will reward those that (1) believe and do (2) good works from His grace. He does not love the rejecters.
30:46 And from His signs is that He sends the winds with glad tidings, and to give you a taste of His mercy, and so that the ships may sail by His command, and that you may seek of His bounty; perhaps you will be thankful.

Blue: And the partner in this regard can be your own trust in your own cleverness and that your possessions can avail you. The definition is pretty broad even if people try to narrow it down traditionally.



30:48 God Who sends the winds, so they raise clouds, and He spreads them in the sky as He wishes, then He turns them into joined pieces, then you see the rain drops come forth from their midst. Then when He makes them fall on whoever He wills of His servants, they rejoice!

Red: So it might appear that some righteous people in the past could control the weather while it was God's doing. I know a Shia (Holy) Imam could control the weather even though he likely did a Communion to make God make the rain fall. I have not excluded the legends that some of their lineage may have been righteous people even though it is irrelevant. But it upsets me that they say that they controlled the weather.

30:58 And We have put forth for the people in this Book of every example. And if you come to them with a sign, those who rejected will say: ?You are bringing falsehood!?
30:59 It is thus that God seals the hearts of those who do not know.
30:60 So be patient, for the promise of God is true, and do not be dissuaded by those who do not have certainty.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 18, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
Chapter 31 Lore check

31:2 These are the signs of the Lore of Wisdom.
31:3 A Guide and a Mercy (2) for the good doers.
31:4 Those who hold the (1) Communion, and contribute towards Purification and regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
31:5 These are on a Guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful ones.


31:8 Those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, for them will be gardens of bliss.



31:17 (Luqman:) ?O my son, hold the (1) Communion and advocate (2) righteousness and prohibit vice, and be patient to what befalls you. These are the most honorable traits.?
31:18 ?And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the earth insolently. For God does not love the arrogant show off.?
31:19 ?And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the voice of the donkeys.?




31:20 Did you not see that God has commissioned in your service what is in the heavens and what is in the earth, and He has showered you with His blessings, both apparent and hidden? (-3) Yet from the people are some who argue about God with no Knowledge nor Guidance nor enlightening Lore.

Blue: These people have not managed to receive any of God's Nearness so thus they lack Knowledge or Guidance, or any Wisdom for that sake either, and they can thus not know the Lore.

31:22 And whoever (1) submits himself completely to God, while he is (2) righteous, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold. And to God is the conclusion of all matters.

31:27 And if all the trees on the earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise.

Absolutely not, God's words never run out and God is always near.

31:32 And when waves surround them like mountains, they call on God, sincerely devoting the system to Him. But when He saves them to the shore, some of them return. None discard Our signs except those who are betrayers, rejecters.
31:33 O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and be concerned of a Day when a father cannot help his child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, the promise of God is truth. Therefore, do not be deceived by this worldly life; and do not be deceived from God by arrogance.
31:34 With God is the knowledge regarding the Hour. And He sends down the rain, and He knows what is inside the wombs. No soul knows what it may gain tomorrow, nor does any soul know in which land it will die. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.


Blue: It is cases like this which means to set up partners with God, amongst other things.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 18, 2014, 01:04:41 PM
Chapter 32 Lore check

32:2 The sending down of this Lore, without a doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.

32:9 Then He evolved him, and blew into him from His Spirit. And He made for you the hearing, the eyesight, and the hearts; rarely are you thankful.

Red: Could likely be what differentiates us from animals that we have minds that are far more complicated and aware than them.

32:15 The only people who (1) believe in Our revelations are those whom when they are reminded by them, they fall prostrating, and they (1) glorify the praise of their Lord, and they are (2) not arrogant.
32:16 Their sides readily forsake their beds, to (1) call on their Lord out of fear and hope, (2) and from Our provisions to them they give.


Green: Example of Communion.

32:19 As for those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, for them are eternal gardens as an abode for what they used to work.

32:23 And We have given Moses the (3) Lore; so do not be in any doubt about meeting Him; and We made it a Guide for the Children of Israel.
32:24 And We made from them leaders who (2) guided in accordance with Our commandment, for they were patient and had certainty regarding Our revelations.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 18, 2014, 01:39:13 PM
Chapter 33 Lore check

33:1 O prophet, you shall be (1) aware of God, and do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
33:2 And follow what is being (3) inspired to you by your Lord. God is fully aware of all that you do.
33:3 And put your (1) trust in God. God suffices as an advocate.




Time for a reminder with the circular diagram I composed a while ago:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)What my bold numbers within parenthesis mean.
  • Belief in God - Nearness and Guidance
  • Righteousness - Peace and Prosperity
  • Belief in Realm - Knowledge and Wisdom
And as you might have read before in this thread if you cared to follow it; Islam can be narrowed down to only to two parts: Faith and Actions. And everything together forms the condition which we call Islam.




33:6 The prophet is closer to the believers than themselves, and his wives are mothers to them. And the decree of God to the believers and the emigrants is that before they help their relatives, they have taken care of their own families first. Such has been decreed in the Lore.
33:7 And when We took from the prophets their covenant. And from you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary; We took from them a solemn covenant.


33:26 And He also brought down those who helped support them from among the people of the Lore from their secure positions, and He threw terror into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.

33:42 (1) And glorify Him morning and evening.
33:43 He is the One who makes contact with you, along with His angels, to bring you out of darkness and into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.


Red: Pious Believers who have gotten far on the Nearness and Guidance will feel the stronger bond with God and His allies when he/she performs his/her Communion. You have perhaps seen while reading The Book that when the Prophets of old walked aside and performed a Communion and talked to God about something then God often changed the timeline.

33:45 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.

Helpful tip for everyone including myself. I should to a bigger extent ignore the ignorant people:

33:48 And do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites, and ignore their insults, and (1) put your trust in God; for God suffices as an advocate.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 18, 2014, 02:11:39 PM
Chapter 34 Lore check

34:4 That He may reward those who (1) believe and do (2) good works. To them will be a forgiveness and a generous provision.

34:31 And those who rejected have said: ?We will not believe in this Book, nor in what is already with him.? And if you could but see these transgressors when they stand before their Lord, how they will accuse one another back and forth. Those who were weak will say to those who were mighty: ?If it were not for you, we would have been believers!?

34:37 And it is not your money or your children that will bring you closer to Us, but only those who (1) believe and do (2) good work, they will receive double the reward for their works, and they will reside in the high dwellings in peace.

Chapter 35 Lore check

35:7 Those who (-1) reject will have a painful retribution, and those who (1) believe and do (2) good works they will have a forgiveness and a great reward.
35:8 As for he whose (-2) evil work is adorned for him so he sees it as being good; for God thus misguides whom He wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.


35:23 You are but a warner.
35:24 We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner. There was not a nation that a warner did not come to it.
35:25 And if they deny you, then those before them have also denied. Their messengers went to them with the proofs and the scriptures and the Lore of Enlightenment.


35:29 Surely, those who recite the Lore of God and (1) hold the Communion, and (2) spend secretly and openly from what We have provided them, they are seeking a trade that can never lose.
35:30 He will give them their recompense, and He will increase them from His blessings. He is Forgiving, Thankful.
35:31 And what We inspired to you from the Lore, it is the truth, authenticating what is between his hands. God is Expert over His servants, Seer.
35:32 Then We inherited the Lore to those whom We selected from Our servants. Subsequently, some of them (-2) wronged themselves, and others (-2) upheld it partly, while others were eager to work (2) righteousness in accordance with the will of God; such is the great benefit.


35:40 Say: ?Do you see the partners whom you have called on besides God? Show me what they have created on the earth. Or do they possess any partnership in the heavens? Or have We given them a lore wherein they are taking knowledge from it? Indeed, what the transgressors promise one another is no more than arrogance.?



35:43 (-2) Arrogance on the earth, and (-2) evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in the way of God, and you will not find any bypass to the way of God.

Chapter 36 Lore check

36:2 And the Book of Wisdom.

36:47 And when they are told: ?Spend from what God has provisioned you.? Those who reject say to those who believe: ?Shall we feed those whom God could feed, if He so willed? You are clearly misguided!?

Blue: Sadly I have seen this behavior in real life from someone I know too well.

36:69 And We did not teach him poetry, nor does he need it. This is a reminder and a clear Book.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: tauhid101 on January 19, 2014, 12:40:11 AM
Chapter 33 Lore check

33:1 O prophet, you shall be (1) aware of God, and do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
33:2 And follow what is being (3) inspired to you by your Lord. God is fully aware of all that you do.
33:3 And put your (1) trust in God. God suffices as an advocate.




Time for a reminder with the circular diagram I composed a while ago:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)What my bold numbers within parenthesis mean.
  • Belief in God - Nearness and Guidance
  • Righteousness - Peace and Prosperity
  • Belief in Realm - Knowledge and Wisdom
And as you might have read before in this thread if you cared to follow it; Islam can be narrowed down to only to two parts: Faith and Actions. And everything together forms the condition which we call Islam.




33:6 The prophet is closer to the believers than themselves, and his wives are mothers to them. And the decree of God to the believers and the emigrants is that before they help their relatives, they have taken care of their own families first. Such has been decreed in the Lore.
33:7 And when We took from the prophets their covenant. And from you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary; We took from them a solemn covenant.


33:26 And He also brought down those who helped support them from among the people of the Lore from their secure positions, and He threw terror into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.

33:42 (1) And glorify Him morning and evening.
33:43 He is the One who makes contact with you, along with His angels, to bring you out of darkness and into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.


Red: Pious Believers who have gotten far on the Nearness and Guidance will feel the stronger bond with God and His allies when he/she performs his/her Communion. You have perhaps seen while reading The Book that when the Prophets of old walked aside and performed a Communion and talked to God about something then God often changed the timeline.

33:45 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.

Helpful tip for everyone including myself. I should to a bigger extent ignore the ignorant people:

33:48 And do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites, and ignore their insults, and (1) put your trust in God; for God suffices as an advocate.

God bless you

Peace be within you, Man of Faith

I hope you don't mind me posting in your personal thread here :). Just wanted to show you something within your diagram; shouldn't the outer ring (Islam) be among the portion (Actions), because to submit, submission, submissive, and surrender are commands from the Lord, and a command from the Lord has to be fulfilled, which is during our communion with the Lord? And the outer ring should be the Faith in God only, the bond which is yet to be established by the Lord within us, so that we are faithful only to the Lord in this world, and hopefully placed among the righteous in the Hereafter? :)

Peace be within you, bro Man of Faith :pr
tauhid101
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 19, 2014, 03:03:26 AM
Peace tauhid101 ,

Your idea is fine. However, I consider that one reaches a condition of Islam when they fulfill the inner circles of the diagram. As The Book goes you cannot go to Heaven without both Faith and Actions, although they are usually intertwined. As Jesus seems to have wanted to proclaim that you must express your Faith through your Actions. They are linked because if you truly believe but act with evil deeds then you could question whether this person really has Faith, because they are certainly not guided nor have Knowledge and Wisdom. They have not grasped the Lore, or the core Message of Islam.

An example is that many "Muslims" give to charity, but mostly because the "religion" says so and not so much giving it with their hearts, and they can insult and misbehave from the time they gave the charity until the next time they give so their charity is practically in vain.

A full Submission (Islam), therefore, is both Faith and Actions, and that has been the topic of this thread from the start. But it is not just as simple as that because it is the heart within the soul that has to turn good and we have to free ourselves from our egos and our thoughts that we are high and mighty and that if we put our trust in God and rely on Him then we can gain so much more in our lives. Many traditional people think that stereotypical prayers will help them enough on their sole own and that they will not have to think more than that because God will do all the work for them, but that is not the case and The Book (Qur'an) also reveals that between the lines. We have to be steadfast and patient and struggle towards Islam with our own souls and God will not just change our souls for us without testing them. Or people do so-called duah and think that they can only implore God for this or that thinking that they can just lay passive for the wish to come true. No, in fact we have to continue being patient showing our good nature and purifying ourselves through our deeds, and possible meditation and reflections upon creation and so.

I like that you posted in my thread Tauhid and your input was appreciated. With my long walk-through above you see that I consider Islam to be the creed of God and it involves the 1, 2 and sometimes 3 which I go on about in the thread. That is my Islam; I submit through my change within my soul, the purification of it, and that involves Faith and Actions to be a testament to it. I interpret that to be Jesus' point in the Bible testimonies written by Jesus' followers and also The Book with inspired words from God to Muhammad and his pen. And the Ten Commandments given to Moses also show submission through not committing evil and serving The Lord alone. How people later after knowing the teachings of Moses could start idolizing Jesus breaking at least two of the commandments is beyond me. The same goes with Muhammad who has become like a superman in the eyes of certain people.

Have you not noticed how similar the Gospel testimonies in the Bible are to the Message of The Book (Qur'an) if you look on the level of deeds and ignore the fancy words about Jesus and stuff. Jesus truly taught the Lore/Message of God inside out, Faith and Actions, and there were situations with Communion to God from Jesus' side. Turn back the pages and look in the Old Testament, although the actual Torah is not more than the revelations to Moses Ten Commandments and specific commandments to the Jewish people, you see people performing Communion (as-salah) and their prayers were clearly oriented as to seeking God's Guidance and Nearness, to seek help and advice.

But there needs no Bible to follow the Lore; you have The Book these days which is one compilation rather than the Bible which is many stand-alone narrations and hadith and also seemingly things which has nothing to do with God such as Paul's ramblings in the New Testament (I ignore everything except the Gospels when I read it).

And the truly reverent need no book at all if they know the Lore and have sought God's Nearness and Guidance and are accepted by Him and thus receiving active Guidance. Consider that some people speak of bookless God on this forum. As long as one knows the Lore; God's Message to mankind, the Commandments and steadfastly and patiently works to become of a better character then God will simply give them Knowledge and Wisdom. Remember that our ancestor Abraham discovered about God simply through his own contemplation upon existence and the search for the maker of all this and he discovered the Truth.

The Book (Qur'an) was sent down as a guide and a mercy from The Lord and it is a testament to God's existence and a great sign, but its usefulness fades when we have grasped its Message and we know the Lore and what God is expecting out of us. It is a compilation of good, very good, words and always a good book to bring up to read, but it is not like you are doomed to Hell if you improvise as long as you follow the Lore, and rely on God and work righteousness. Our material minds are obsessed with the physical things of this world and Qur'an is no exception to this obsession. The Lore, contents of this Qur'an, is not bound to this book and God's pen does never run out of ink so to say. God says it Himself. So fact is that Qur'an is both a trap and a mercy from God as those who idolize it they will never grasp a word of the Lore. It is interesting but seemingly true that man can idolize just about anything in this life that they forget about God. This obsession runs so deep that people even forget to channel energy from God and have Communion with Him in matters in life and have an unhealthy connection to their Qur'an.

People simply forgot God's point in The Book, even if they study it hard. Too hard in my humble opinion. And then they turn arrogant some of them who argue to have exclusive knowledge due to them knowing Arabic even though there are fine translations these days which cannot distort its Message. One person together with Nearness and Guidance from God can study it with some help from God's servants and his own logic (helped by the Holy Spirit), if his heart is open for the Truth.

But like I said; one is not doomed to Hell as long as he/she understands that God does not ask for illogical things or meaningless things but only full service to Him and that one tries to become a good soul. If God asks to go on a pilgrimage somewhere in an isolated environment that is to shield the mind from all the temptations of this world and not because to mindlessly follow some ritual somewhere. Among the poor translations of Hajj you can see that meditation and contemplation is involved in this pilgrimage. We can always ponder upon the people in the Lore who seem to have traveled off to some remote place on and off. What did they do? Yes of course, they went off on their own pilgrimage to meditate and shield off their minds, and they often went to some place God guided them to and often spent time with other spiritual people, and then after a time they returned to their people.

Muhammad is rumored to have spent time in a cave and even if true or not this is an excellent example of a purpose, a kind of pilgrimage. Moses went up alone on a mountain. Jesus went out in the desert for 40 days and also visited a mountain. Watching the world from the hills of a mountain might give a different perspective and inspiration, and you are alone with God without polluting thoughts of others and the standard evil environment.

Popular Hajj is walking to Mecca, but for what purpose? Walking around a black cuboid building and throwing rocks on Shaytaan? Even if Mecca was the location for pilgrimage of the people of Arabia and those who received The Book it is not the optimal pilgrimage site these days. Simply going there and knowing the Saudi Arabian government has turned it into a big business makes is haraam and losing its purpose.

Sorry for all the text. It seems when I start to write I cannot stop. I delved into things you did not even question.

God bless you

Peace be within you, Man of Faith

I hope you don't mind me posting in your personal thread here :). Just wanted to show you something within your diagram; shouldn't the outer ring (Islam) be among the portion (Actions), because to submit, submission, submissive, and surrender are commands from the Lord, and a command from the Lord has to be fulfilled, which is during our communion with the Lord? And the outer ring should be the Faith in God only, the bond which is yet to be established by the Lord within us, so that we are faithful only to the Lord in this world, and hopefully placed among the righteous in the Hereafter? :)

Peace be within you, bro Man of Faith :pr
tauhid101
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 19, 2014, 04:51:10 AM
Chapter 37 Lore check

37:4 Your god is indeed One.

37:5 The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and what lies between them, and the Lord of the sunrises.

37:99 And he said: ?I am going to my Lord; He will guide me.?
37:100 ?My Lord, grant me from among the (2) righteous.?
37:101 So We gave him good news of a compassionate child.


37:109 Peace be upon Abraham.
37:110 It is thus that We reward the (2) righteous.
37:111 He was of Our (1) believing servants.

37:117 And We gave both (Moses and Aaron) the clear (3) Lore.

When one is given the Lore means that you have the information about the Truth and God's mission.



37:139 And Jonah was one of the messengers.
37:140 When he escaped to the charged ship.
37:141 And he was guilty, so he became among the losers.
37:142 Thus a whale swallowed him, and he was the one to blame.
37:143 And had it not been that he was one of those who implored,
37:144 He would have stayed in its belly until the Day of Resurrection.
37:145 So We threw him on the shore while he was sick.

Red: Jonah was a real rebel and disobeyed God, but God saw something in him and forgave him when he repented. But some say that Prophets and Messengers are infallible, however, in The Book we read of several cases of them sinning. How come God forgives some people who disobeys and that gravely as in a direct order from God? There is something within their souls that is good but their ignorance causes them to falter. Except that God forgives whom He pleases.

Chapter 38 Lore check

38:1 S?, and the Book that contains the remembrance.

38:5 ?Has he made the gods into One god? This is indeed a strange thing!?

Blue: The issue now about 1400 years later is slightly different than these years ago as you see here in the narration, but the Message remains the same. It is easy to adapt the Message, but it shows that The Book must be applied on a new generation of people and new sins. Open polytheism was more the issue in the past. Today it is open obsession with Messengers or Prophets or even material things as extreme as even the Book itself. To ground and bottom it is the same fundamental issue as in the past although it is not Baal or statues which are the main issues, and The Book goes on much about this kind of problem that we do not have now over a millennium later. Mankind has advanced and new dilemmas appear. Still it is the idolization and associating partners with God that is the problem, but as we saw before in the thread it can be just about anything that can be a partner even such as one's ego.

38:26 O David, We have made you a successor on the earth. Therefore, (2) you shall judge among the people with the truth, and do not follow desire, lest it diverts you from the path of God. Indeed, those who stray off the path of God will have a severe retribution for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.

Red: Uphold or fight for justice is the action part of Islam, and not for dogma or arrogance.

38:28 Or shall We treat those who (1) believe and do (2) good works as We treat those who make (-2) corruption on the earth? Or shall We treat the (2) righteous as the (-2) wicked?

38:29 A Lore that We have sent down to you, that is blessed, so that they may reflect upon its revelations, and so that those who possess intelligence will take heed.



38:72 ?So when I have evolved him, and blow of My Spirit in him, then you shall yield to him.?
38:73 The angels yielded, all of them,
38:74 Except Satan; he turned arrogant, and became one of the rejecters.
38:75 He said: ?O Satan, what prevented you from yielding to what I have created by My hands? Are you too arrogant? Or are you one of those exalted??
38:76 He said: ?I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from clay.?


Blue: Do we not feel the same arrogance in many people around us, particularly those who belong to sects and their dogma. But if the sectarian people believe and do good then I hold no grudge against them, but if they feel better than others (which sadly they often do) then I see the above and become a bit upset. The problem is when we see ourselves as the chosen ones without justification other than empty words without deeds.



38:86 Say: ?I do not ask you for any wage, nor am I a fraud.?
38:87 ?It is but a reminder for the worlds.?
38:88 ?And you will come to know its news after awhile.?

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 19, 2014, 10:37:05 AM
Chapter 39 Lore check

39:1 The sending down of the Lore is from God, the Noble, the Wise.
39:2 We have sent down to you the (3) Lore with the Truth, (1) so serve God while devoting the system to Him.
39:3 Absolutely, to God is the true system. And those who set up allies besides Him: ?We only serve them so that they may bring us closer to God.? God will judge between them in what they dispute. For God does not guide him who is a liar, a rejecter.


Blue: It sounds exactly like the reason most people who excessively revere Prophet Muhammad use.

Chapter 40 Lore check

40:27 And Moses said: ?I seek refuge with my Lord and your Lord from every arrogant one who does not believe in the Day of Reckoning?
40:28 And a believing man from among the people of Pharaoh, who had concealed his belief, said: ?Will you kill a man simply for saying: ?My Lord is God?, and he has come to you with proofs from your Lord? And if he is a liar, then his lie will be upon him, and if he is truthful, then some of what he is promising you will afflict you. For God does not guide any transgressor, liar.?


Green: I meet fierce opposition simply for saying that God's Message is no more than belief and doing good.
Teal: There seems to have been a mix of people amongst Pharaoh's people. A few actually believed, although not apparent if it was all the way before Moses came there or not.

40:53 And We gave Moses the Guidance, and We made the Children of Israel inherit the (3) Lore.
40:54 A Guide and a Reminder for those who possess intelligence.
40:55 So be patient, for the promise of God is true, and seek forgiveness for your sin, and glorify and praise your Lord evening and morning.


Green: And here it goes again, morning and evening.

40:58 And not equal are the blind and the seer, nor those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, and those who do evil. Little do you remember.

40:70 Those who deny the Lore, and what We have sent Our messengers with. Therefore, they will come to know.

Chapter 41 Lore check

41:3 A Lore whose signs are made detailed - an Arabic revelation for a people who know.

41:6 Say: ?I am no more than a human being like you. It is inspired to me that your god is One god, therefore you shall be upright towards Him and seek His forgiveness. And woe to the polytheists.?
41:7 ?The ones who do not contribute towards Purification, and with regards to the Hereafter, they are disbelievers.?
41:8 Surely, those who (1) believe and do (2) good works, they will receive recompense that will not end.


41:14 When the messengers came to them, publicly and privately: ?You shall not serve except God.? They said: ?Had our Lord willed, He would have sent angels. We are rejecting what you have been sent with.?

41:18 And We saved those who (1) believed and were (2) righteous.

41:30 Those who have said: (1) ?Our Lord is God,? then they did right, the angels will come down upon them: ?You shall not fear, nor shall you grieve. Rejoice in the good news of the Paradise that you have been promised.?

41:33 And who is better in saying than he (1) who invites to God, and does (2) good works, and says: ?I am one of those who have submitted.?
41:34 Not equal are the good and the bad response. You (2) shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend.
41:35 And none can attain this except those who are patient. And none can attain this except those who are extremely fortunate.
41:36 And (-2) if bitterness from the devil afflicts you, then seek (1) refuge with God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.


Teal: This is something I could learn from myself. It is hard to be kind towards those who are hostile towards you, but the kinder response the better despite unfriendly remarks.
Blue: Seek help from God to make you persevere those who seek to hurt you through their choice of words and are ignorant.

41:40 Those who distort Our revelations are not hidden from Us. Is one who is thrown into Hell better, or one who comes secure on the Day of Resurrection? Do whatever you wish; He is Seer of what you do.
41:41 Those who have rejected the Reminder when it came to them; and it is an Honorable Lore.
41:42 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from One Most Wise, Praiseworthy.


41:44 And had We made it a non-Arabic revelation, they would have said: ?If only its verses were made clear!? Non-Arabic and Arabic, say: ?For those who believe, it is a guide and healing. As for those who disbelieve, there is deafness in their ears, and they are blind to it. These will be called from a place far away.?

Alternative translation (41:44): [yusufali] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

Abused to claim that Arabic is a perfect language. Rather it is that its recipients were Arabs so they would not understand if it was a foreign language.

41:45 And We have given Moses the (3) Lore, but it was disputed in. And had it not been for the predetermined decision of your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, they harbor many doubts about it.
41:46 Whoever does (2) good works does so for his own soul, and whoever works (-2) evil shall have the same. Your Lord does not wrong the servants.


God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 23, 2014, 12:08:34 PM
Peace,

We have thus seen that God's Judgment (deen) for doing good (2) and to have Faith in Him (1) are simply put the only criteria for determining one's possibility of salvation. The whole Message or Lore has been made complicated many times over while it has been there all along since the compilation of The Book, but people can simply not accept that it is this "easy". We have over and over again in this thread gone through the sentences of The Book to show that most of the Book is just a plain repetition of the same Message all along. Be (1) mindful of God and serve Him, (2) uphold justice and do (2) good and refrain from evil.

People in the past got some very simple rules presented to them on stone tablets in the manner; "thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not covet... etc", but still they want to invent more weird rules and God even makes sarcastic remarks about that in The Book I have noticed in certain portions of it. Jews are talking about 603 rules in Judaism and it is a testament to that behavior of man and I suppose "Muslims" have likely something similar to that. The question is who "wins" this "contest" of manufacturing religious rules.

God made it simple and man makes it hard.



Again I will post my circular diagram with the foundation of Islam:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)What my bold numbers within parenthesis mean:

  • Belief in God - Nearness and Guidance
  • Righteousness - Peace and Prosperity
  • Belief in Realm - Knowledge and Wisdom
Islam is what is within the outer circle and first split into the inner and outer parts called Actions and Faith by me and then further split down into three sections as shown in the list and in the diagram; Nearness and Guidance, Peace and Prosperity, and Knowledge and Wisdom. I have argued that before you go right there is a certain need for Nearness first to receive Guidance and then you might gain Knowledge and Wisdom (and thus God's Judgement/ability to judge between right and wrong) and then if all works then one shall, God willing, gain Peace and Prosperity which is a whole new dimension of blessings. It is shown that Faith carries weight but not so without good deeds. Perchance awareness/consciousness (1) of God may make one person realize the importance of such (2) deeds.

It is worth noticing that I did not understand myself fully in my composition of this diagram or the thread but I have taken it as inspiration, but it is up to each individual to him/herself evaluate the Truth. While I worked on the thread I realized things after I had done the diagram and how it seamlessly fitted into the Book's narrations and the criteria which I first begun as independent to it. Interestingly the (1), (2) and (3) fitted the topic too without initial intention, particularly the Faith and Actions part.



Man dwells in conjecture while God made it simple. You can reach very far through simply Faith and good deeds. Nearness will give Guidance and thus all the Wisdom and Knowledge will be had too. And with these perks one will do all the good deeds required because one is enlightened of the Truth and the core Message. Peace and Prosperity will be a result to it and one is within Islam. All Messengers tried to prove the same point and most have been misunderstood or falsehood applied to their presence. It is obvious when you read the narration yet people fail to see. And a problem is because "as-salat" has gained complicated meanings despite being such a simple and plain word. Wakas says bond or tie and that is likely it or some sort of Communion, or I said symbiosis but one-way symbiosis.

When we remove all the extracted meanings of words made into complicated practices such as contact prayer, the word as-salat cannot mean it, you see yourselves that is it simply too few syllables to carry any elaborated meaning. The problem is that people apply no logic or reason when it comes to religion because it is that *alien sound* thingy which is sacred and taboo to question. And "since when do birds or animals perform contact prayer" is another question one may ask to realize how silly the interpretation of salah as contact prayer. But to regard it as when the soul blends with the divine or communion or any other more logical interpretation it rings a bell or is it just mine that rings?



I have decided to abort the continuation of my Lore checks because I found that the remaining chapters are basically a repetition of what I copy-pasted into the thread and does not prove my point any further than it has already be proven. My aim with all the checks was to show that Islam is about what was just discussed (except that I took the liberty to comment on things such as prayers). How I will elaborate from here on now I am not sure about, but I will try to come up with new posts on the subject matter. But the purpose of the thread has basically been fulfilled at this point, however, like I said there might be things I can elaborate upon.

May God be pleased with what I have done and that someone appreciates my efforts.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: tauhid101 on January 27, 2014, 12:39:51 AM
Peace tauhid101 ,

Your idea is fine. However, I consider that one reaches a condition of Islam when they fulfill the inner circles of the diagram. As The Book goes you cannot go to Heaven without both Faith and Actions, although they are usually intertwined. As Jesus seems to have wanted to proclaim that you must express your Faith through your Actions. They are linked because if you truly believe but act with evil deeds then you could question whether this person really has Faith, because they are certainly not guided nor have Knowledge and Wisdom. They have not grasped the Lore, or the core Message of Islam.

God bless you

Peace be within you, bro Man of Faith

Sorry but I dare not write "my idea" as you put it. The core Message from the Lord is the Truth, the Reality of His Attributes and His creations. To be near the Lord in real time is not just a thought but it is a reality. I dare not write in your thread, or anywhere for that matter, about His Verses/Message which I have no knowledge of their Truth. The Truth comes from the Lord only. I am always aware of His Presence and His Attributes everywhere that I am, even in this forum. :)

Peace.
tauhid101
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on January 27, 2014, 07:03:10 AM
Peace tau hid,

Absolutely, that is fine. As long as you know The Message and its simple structure then not much else is necessary either. I have not attempted to talk beyond my own comprehension and God willing what I have discussed here are within the boundaries of God's "realm data" (to find a somewhat comprehensible term).

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on February 16, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
Peace,

I have not yet found anything more to write on this thread, but I must see if I can find something that we may continue utilizing it for its topic to gain God's Nearness and Guidance that we start generating Knowledge and Wisdom through intensified spiritual well-being (infusion of the Holy Spirit) and in the end having Peace and Prosperity. We revealed here that it is a chain of Faith and it must be completed fully in order to be within the boundaries of Islam (submission to God, His Will and His system). One cannot have fully submitted to The Lord without working on the prerequisites to become something that God refers to as Mu'meen* which is one who has Faith (Iman) and it indicates someone who has the circle of Faith fulfilled. An ill-doer will never fulfill the diagram as drawn by me earlier, i.e. be a Mu'meen and reached full Islam/Submission because such is God's system and as shown repeatedly throughout this thread several times it takes that we apply the Justice system of God and judge the way God has taught us through Guidance and Inspiration or God will lead us astray. This is proclaimed by God Himself many times in The Book.

My hope is that my dear readers of this thread will open their eyes and see that (nearly) all that God wants to proclaim in The Book is that we establish or maintain a community of righteousness, i.e. one that uses a Judgment and Justice system liked by God and one that is good will see right from wrong. It is an endless struggle to remain steadfast and patient on our path towards Purification and establishment of Communion with The Lord but the rewards are amazing. But it would seem that we are always exposed to new tests no matter where we are on the path and no matter if we are Mu'meen (fulfilled the circle of Faith) or before this condition. It does not end until the day that God decides to bring us back to Him.

Prophets and Messengers were tested the same way and they may have swayed a little but overall they passed the tests in ways that pleased The Lord. The point I wished to come to is to always be on our guard even if we deem ourselves strong in Faith and we know sound Judgment and how to be fair because there are always traps everywhere and you can always see that in the parables of The Book and some parables may even be difficult to understand at a first glance even though they actually sinned in ways.

If we love God we love the good that He created and we accept his merciful approach to what is wrong and we try to lead our less fortunate co-humans on the true path through being good examples of men and women of Faith. Patience is always valued more than being quick to punish and it is narrated by God in His book. If we counter evil with good that is always the best option although we need to be firm with where we stand but we should always show our good nature to help those less fortunate. Perchance we may not be so hateful if we fathom our fellow human suffering Hell and at least I could cry for less.

Never use more violence than any situation may require to prevent the aggressor from evil and to refrain from punishment if the original aggressor honestly repents and reforms and seeks God's system of Judgment.

There is much Wisdom in the saying: "Don't fight fire with fire". It means that responding to a hostile and aggressive action with the same aggression will be as futile as adding fire to the fire for it will not extinguish the fire but more like adding more fuel to the fire. For as much as we know it takes something like water to extinguish the fire and that is normally seen as blue compared to the red of the fire. Same color is the face of a person who is full of rage and compassion, calm (blue) and diplomatic Wisdom and Knowledge will be a better weapon against one who is full of red.

The story narrated in the Gospel testimony written by the followers of Jesus where God allegedly says: "If someone strikes you on one cheek, offer him the other side too" and could be explained as it means that instead of punching the one you have some disagreement with back you humble yourself. If you get into a fight try the cheek trick and you will see that few people will strike a second time. If it does not work anyway well then so may it be, but in the ways I have tried a similar approach by offering kindness on evil is that they are shocked and if you play your cards well they may even calm down.

I know some people may dislike it, but drawing parallels to our contemporary motion pictures such as Star Wars is a good way of presenting Islam. Those who have seen the movies and perhaps played the games know the exquisite contrast between the patience and calm of the Jedi Order compared to the greedy, selfish and hateful Sith Order. Even Star Wars is a beautiful example of how a Believer ought to be like. The Jedi Order is advocating a system of Justice and fair Judgment just as Islam, and works for the community's best while the Sith Order is very egotistical and individualistic. The Jedis want to bring a balance to The Force, same as those Believers in real life should act and they want what is natural to be natural. Perfect example of a "Muslim Ummah" if you follow the Jedi Order.

I would recommend that people who are interested in gaming, unless you have already played these games, to play Star Wars - Knights of the Old Republic games which has a role-playing approach where you choose to decide how your character treats the people they initiate a dialog with. They can be charitable and good or they can be reckless and selfish and it may give good inspiration of good vs. evil. (I know there may be newer Star Wars games, but I never played them). One good lesson is that evil deeds may lead to more immediate monetary gains, but you will not have many friends except those who are already evil and they will have nothing but animosity and rivalry between each other, and what is most important is that in the end it ultimately leads to sorrow and loneliness. Evil people seem to become sad but unable to get out of the fate they have created for themselves.

* Based on Muslim and Islam following the same logic Mu'meen simply means someone who has Faith, and based on a scenario in The Book (Qur'an) it means when you fully believe in God beyond doubt, and we can deduce that one needs both the Actions and Faith part of my circular diagram to have reached this condition. In future posts I will try to use alternative English words instead.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on February 23, 2014, 10:08:01 AM
The Ten Commandments in The Book (Qur'an)

Because I wanted people to see that the often so called Mosaic Law is present in The Book (Qur'an) I make a post with references from The Book which states the same

The so-called Mosaic Law

I am the LORD thy God;

Gathered verses from The Book to show the same commandments are presented in it*:


* There may be even more verses in The Book which state the same thing.

Extra commandments found in the Teachings (Torah) of Moses but which were not in the above list

2:173 He has only made unlawful for you that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated with to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

5:45 And We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on February 24, 2014, 11:42:09 AM
Book or Message?

2:87 And We gave Moses the Book/Message/Lore, and after him We sent the messengers. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your souls do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill!

Moses was given the Torah which contains the Message/Lore and the word Torah literally means teaching. Quote from Wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah)):

"Torah (/ˈtɔːrə/; Hebrew: תּוֹרָה, "Instruction", "Teaching") is the central concept in the Judaic tradition."

So thus Moses was given the Knowledge of God's Realm but he was not so much given a physical book. However, it is inevitable from a logical standpoint to disregard that he was given something physical and that is "Al-Furqan" which without even needing to analyze the Arabic word can be identified as the tablets with the Criteria that God covenanted with the Children of Israel. All subsequent Messengers taught using this set of rules including Jesus, the Messiah, although Jesus elaborated on the "Law" and showed how stubbornly literally people interpreted it without applying the right intention and thought to it and when showing this he upset the whole religious elite and was persecuted for speaking the Truth. It also ought to warn not to follow religious scholars, but people have not heeded this even yet for another millennium after him.

The moral lesson and the wonders that God showed in those days of Moses could likely be understood as the true Torah, and not necessarily a physical book as you may have grasped by now. There exists countless bits of hearsay in written form and that is what you may find if you open the Bible of Christians or the Tanakh of the Jews. Various parts of the stories are likely to be true which we have a problem distinguishing, but it is not required from us. As long as we get the general Message of it then that is fine. If the narrations seem righteous to the eye then they are likely true even if we know how unreliable hearsay can be by drawing parallels to the so-called "hadith of Muhammad".

If you open The Book you can see that there are distortions in the Bible/Tanakh such as that it is a different son of Abraham being sacrificed in it among many other things.



I have tried hard to prove that there are no books and I hope that some people start to understand this fact. Not the Bible, nor anything in it, is a divine revelation as per "Qur'an" standard and is not what God specifically refers to in it but refers to the Lore of God. So "Ahl Al-ketaab" are the adherers to that Lore, so anyone is "Ahl Al-Ketaab" who follow the Message of God. Even Qur'an, which lot of traditionalists constantly remind me of, means recitation and not book which renders it without the trait of a physical object. I stubbornly hold on to The Book as a translation of Qur'an nonetheless, because a book can be recited when learned by heart, which many people have accomplished with the original Arabic tongue. It is a book you hold when you hold up a "Qur'an" in your hand. I have learned that God do not give magical names so things and so with The Book, and people argue that "as-salat" is a magical word with an intricate meaning despite being only a simple word which is against logic in my humble opinion. Qur'an is just plainly and simply "a book", but 'The Book', or 'The Recitation' if you so argue.



God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 01, 2014, 05:48:27 AM
Peace,

The Book  (Qur'an) only confirms what is already with you as well as giving some news for the Believers and admonitions for the disbelievers. It is like a sign that God is always present and His "pen" does never run out of ink.

It hints that the "603 laws" of the Jews is an invention and that they lie about God by attributing blasphemous teachings to Him and they are arrogant. It chants what the true prohibitions and rules were for this people and it was a short composition of commandments as much as we know the so-called Ten Commandments and some particular community-specific rules such as not certain fat or other minor differences. The Book explains the community-specific rules which were punishments for their sins, because they repeatedly disobeyed God during the Exodus.

Zoroastrianism originates from the same root as Judaism and they more or less practiced the identical religion as from the Old Testament or Tanakh which would appear as "stolen" from the Persians. If one knows about Zoroastrianism and studies the Old Testament then they will see that the same practices are in action there.

Interestingly, suddenly within the Old Testament, the people start to destroy the high places and the fire altars and it could be a sign that people realized that they were used for the wrong kind of worship. Further forward they reestablish them periodically which could indicate that they drifted back and forth from the path. Bad kings are indicators for this behavior and that they accepted the ceremonial sites. It seems written in the Old Testament as if God deemed a king good overall BUT says that they did not forbid the burning at the fire altars as if it was negative.

I take most of the Old Testament to be a hi-jacked scripture, or rather hearsay or historical records, of a people which were active Zoroastrians. Worth noticing it that Dariush Persian empire established Aramaic as primary language within its expanses. Dariush must have known the language and been able to communicate with the people of The Lore because he spoke directly in person to one pious servant of God called Daniel. And Dariush is seen as a righteous individual that served God and had a good bond (salah) to God and was so strong in the Spirit that he received instructions from the Lord. For example, he helped reconstruct the destroyed temple of Jerusalem on command of the Lord. And the center of events is often modern-day Iraq rather than a fictional Israel.

King David is almost contemporary (as long as historical records are accurate) with the era of the mighty kings of Pars and it arose suspicions for me. Would David and Solomon (his successor) have established a vast empire simultaneously with Cyrus, Dariush & Co?

But the Torah or instructions of Moses is no more than a brief portion of the Old Testament that we know. See my reference of the so-called Ten Commandments in a previous post. Rest is only hearsay that people wrote down. Not even the Torah as found in the NT is the original text but a transcript that may contain errors. Fortunately we have The Book (Qur'an) which confirms what is true. The list of commandments are still true as well as the prohibition of pig meat, already dead animals and blood etc.

How did this relate to the topic of this thread? Well, all is that I want to show the simplicity of the Message and the rest is only biased historical records.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 02, 2014, 03:16:20 PM
Lesson on 'Nearness and Guidance' part 1

Now that the topic from Nearness and Guidance until the blessing of Peace and Prosperity is explained quite thoroughly let us focus on specific parts of the topic. Let us take a lesson in what we shall do to begin on our path towards God.

Before we start let us see the circle of Faith again:

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg)

On this lesson let us have The Book (Qur'an) speak for us because the answer is in it, the Message, from God allegedly revealed in the 7th century AD. It was known before this age (the Message), but finally mankind had a direct narration from God in their hands which can make other sources redundant. As we saw in my post with the title 'The Ten Commandments in The Book (Qur'an)', the "so-called" Mosaic Law remains within The Book and hence the Bible is basically only necessary as a historical source of information.

I will not nag on about any rituals or specifics how to perform the commanded practices The Book speaks about and I highly doubt that there are such specifics ever decreed for the Believers. However, I do not exclude the wishes of the individual Believer to physically prostrate to God or any other righteous movement because I see that as something between a man or a woman before their God. But we ought to see what The Book actually says about prayers by highlighting "verses" talking about this practice. Whenever we do this thing it has an intricate meaning to establish a connection to God and the Arabic word we know for this called "salah" means just this thing. People have invented more meanings to a word that is pretty simple in syllables to mean more than it actually does. You cannot have such a short word alone mean more than something relatively simple, or it would be against logic. God does not do magic or expect us to understand a word only if it was a complicated meaning kept through history. Salah does not mean more than what one can expect it to do even if it vary slightly in wording in English, i.e. connection, bond, tie, 'Communion'.

Let us return to the topic and that is what gives us 'Nearness and Guidance', i.e. what brings us closer to God and on a straight path. I will quote a sentence from The Book:

7:205

* I used Sahih because some people may think that 'the Free-Minds group' twists the passages of The Book.

We ought to ponder about these words and how we perceive our Communion with God. There are other sections of The Book that says that during daylight this time we are given respite for our daily hunt to survive. I would say that we should remain constant in our remembrance of God and The Lord should be with us in every action and decision that we take during the day. But the Communion itself, i.e. salah, is purely about establishing a link or connection to God and does not mean more than that. Forget that it means prayer because a prayer is when you wish for something and want a moment of talk with the Maker, for example, you call out upon the Lord for a certain event to take place or change or whatever you would like to happen. With strong Faith (big portion of the Holy Spirit resides in you) and by the Will of The Lord then a call unto the Lord may change things, even though often subtly so you should never expect food to rain from heaven, even though it could happen. If you believe it could happen if the Lord wills then you have a strong Faith. The Lord is always with you and thus you can always express something right out in the air even if it would appear crazy. This is what can make people ridicule you if you do it at any time of the day as in this verse:

5:58 And if you call to the Communion, they take it for mockery and play. That is because they are a people who do not comprehend.

Without really being any expert at Arabic I see that this verse is not properly interpreted. A problem for a Believer is that people may think you are mentally ill for talking to yourself while you are speaking to The Lord who is always listening.

And you can call unto God using many different names as long as they are righteous. And when you call unto the Lord you shall probably restrain your anger for example that you do not scream, but do not be so shy as to whisper. This can be the reason why people would ridicule you as in the above example.

17:110 Say: ?Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names.? And do not be too loud in making your contact prayer, nor too quiet; but seek a path in between.

From the prominent examples of communication with the Lord we seem to be expected to use our speech and not only think your glorification and remembrance of The Lord. It also implies in other parts that such communication has a purpose more than only parroting phrases because you need to know what you are saying:

4:43 O you who believe, do not come near the Communion while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. Nor if you have had intercourse, unless traveling, until you bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or one of you has excreted feces, or you had sexual contact with the women, and could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and hands. God is Pardoning, Forgiving.

Clean people (in spirit) will understand the above command to clean yourself physically before calling unto the Lord because it will then turn obvious. It ought to mean being clean at any moment of your life because there are many occasions including Communion. For example here:

5:106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made, by two among you who are equitable. If you have gone forth in the land, and death is approaching, then any two may suffice - if you have doubt regarding them, then detain them after making the Communion, and they will swear by God: ?We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners.?

So why do these people communicate with God prior to giving testimony?

Communion during the day seem to be allowed in a improvised way while performing another action such as driving or walking. Compared to the ritualists I rather think that it means that you perform the communication with The Lord while doing something else simultaneously. Best is of course to stop the vehicle and then focus on The Lord exclusively without concentrating on something else. Perhaps in the way of the person performing it, some kneel or some prostrate but with absolute concentration on the Communion. See the verse talking about Communion while doing other things:

2:239 But if you are fearful, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.

We can argue what "fearful" means in this situation, but it can probably be that you need to perform your duties without stopping in fear of the boss might fire you or that are not strong in Faith yet that people may ridicule you if you perform Communion in public that you rather do it in your car in the street.

9:99

وَمِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَيَتَّخِذُ مَا يُنفِقُ قُرُبَاتٍ عِندَ اللَّهِ وَصَلَوَاتِ الرَّسُولِ

Red: The Free-Minds translation says Contact Prayers here.

It is obvious that salah is simply communication, a bond or as simple as I put it: Communion, that you can understand something through intuition as if you always knew it even if you connected to The Lord and focused and commemorated Him that He blessed you with understanding.

Communions have an intricate meaning and especially a meaningful one. It is more than simply parroting phrases at a prayer mat. It is about obtaining active Guidance from The Lord by calling unto Him at every possible moment. We have many examples of when people of the Lore call unto the Lord. The response to a Communion, an expressed wish or generated Guidance, Knowledge or Wisdom is often gradual and therefore we ought to be steadfast as God says. But God responds to prayers as He pleases as we can see in this example:

28:22 And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said: ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.?
28:23 When he arrived at the watering hole of Midyan, he found a crowd of people watering, and he found two women waiting on the side. He said: ?What is holding you back.? They said: ?We cannot draw water until the shepherds finish, and our father is an old man.?
28:24 So he drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?
28:25 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said: ?My father invites you to reward you for watering for us.? So when he came to him, and told to him the stories, he said: ?Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people.?

Red: I.e. he went off to a remote location and performed a Communion seeking Guidance from The Lord.
Green: Moses expressed wishes verbally with God as the recipient. This is Communion.

He said some words that God may guide him straight and he soon came to a test of his Faith which he passed. Together with passing the test and also not forgetting to calling unto The Lord; God blessed him as you see in the last verse above.



This, stated above, is seeking Nearness and Guidance through Communion. I hope it helps clarifying what I have written about earlier in this thread.



See this that may hint that Moses was in a monogamous lifestyle. Some people advocate that The Book allows polygamy, but this is rarely the case among the Prophets and Messengers of old with the exception of Muhammad (and perhaps Solomon in the hearsay even if The Book does not reveal it). Apart from that only unrighteous people such as Pharaoh has multiple wives.

28:27 He said: ?I wish you to marry one of my two daughters, on condition that you work for me through eight pilgrimage periods; if you complete them to ten, it will be voluntary on your part. I do not wish to make this matter too difficult for you. You will find me, God willing, of the righteous.?

Note that Jacob, in another story, had two wives according to the hearsay in the Old Testament, but it was in that narration because he was promised Rachel for serving Laban seven years but was given Leah instead, and then served another seven years for Rachel. The narration seems pretty strange however if one takes the time to read it. And if we see the text we can observe that Jacob did not treat the women equally, because he originally did only want to marry one of them. He felt obliged to keep Leah. Not sure we can depend on the hearsay of the Bible though because it is often as reliable as hadith of Muhammad.

Sorry for the slip into another topic. I only felt the argue to point it out while reading these verses from chapter 28.



22:67 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

2:186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.

3:39 So the angels called to him while he was standing, making contact, in the temple enclosure: ?God gives you glad tidings of John, authenticating the word from God, and a master, and steadfast, and a prophet from the upright.?

فَنَادَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَهُوَ قَائِمٌ يُصَلِّي فِي الْمِحْرَابِ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُبَشِّرُكَ بِيَحْيَىٰ مُصَدِّقًا بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَسَيِّدًا وَحَصُورًا وَنَبِيًّا مِّنَ الصَّالِحِينَ

Red: Admit it. Zachariah was performing a Communion. And he must have implored the Lord in his wordings to get a son.



I hope to have started to break the big myth about salah/Communion/communication with The Lord.

Next post I will try to discuss the disputed "prayer timings". Personally, I have two obvious timings that barely need discussing and that is morning and evening, but there is a trouble with justifying the prayers/communions during daylight. I am certain that there is Communion between dawn and dusk however, but that it has no fixed timing. If you forget remembrance of God for the whole day after the morning it seems negative as in the case of Solomon and his horses.

Time to end the day.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 08, 2014, 03:31:15 PM
Lesson on 'Nearness and Guidance' part 2

(When?)

At any time

2:186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.

21:20 They glorify in the night and the day, they do not cease.

41:38 So, if they become arrogant, then those who are with your Lord glorify Him night and day, and they never despair.

Dawn and dusk

The Book is mainly talking about glorification repeatedly throughout the narration at dawn and dusk. This appears to be the only ritual-like practice for those who believe. However, there is another event in the afternoon as we shall soon see.

3:41 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn.?

6:52 And do not turn away those who call on their Lord at dawn and dusk seeking His face; you are not responsible for their judgment, nor are they responsible for your judgment; if you turn them away, then you will be of the wicked.

7:205 And remember your Lord within yourself, in humility and in reverence; and without loudness in words, during the morning and the evening. And do not be of the careless ones.

17:78 Hold the Communion till the setting of the sun; to the murkiness of the night; and the Qur?an at dawn - the Qur?an at dawn is witnessed spectacular.

Red: The current understanding of Qur'an is rendering the interpretation ridiculous. It is not even al-quran but quran, i.e. not definite article. Recitation at dawn could work better in that case as in reciting hymns etc. Hymns are a good way of glorifying The Lord as even Angels sing songs of praise.

18:28 And have patience upon yourself regarding those who call on their Lord at dawn and dusk seeking His face, and let not your eyes overlook them that you seek the beauty of this worldly life. And do not obey he whom We have made his heart heedless of Our remembrance and he followed his desire, and his fate was lost.

19:11 So he went out among his people from the temple enclosure, and he indicated to them that they should glorify Him at dawn and dusk.

24:36 In homes that God has permitted to be raised, and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein in the mornings and the evenings.

24:58 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times: before the dawn Communion, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening Communion. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

30:17 So glory be to God, when you retire and when you wake.

33:42 And glorify Him morning and evening.

38:18 We commissioned the mountains to glorify with him, at dusk and dawn.

40:55 So be patient, for the promise of God is true, and seek forgiveness for your sin, and glorify and praise your Lord evening and morning.

48:9 That you may believe in God and His messenger, and that you may support Him, honor Him, and glorify Him, morning and evening.

52:48 You shall be patient for the judgment of your Lord, for you are in Our sights; and glorify the praise of your Lord when you rise.

76:25 And remember the name of your Lord morning and evening.

Afternoon?

It is strange for a devoted servant of God to think that there is no commemoration of God through the whole day after the morning glorification, but there are hints at certain elements. Nevertheless, morning and evening are clearly the most important glorification moments of the day as seen above that they are repeated many times throughout The Book.

20:130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and at parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.

Note: Be aware of "at parts of the day". There is hinted at spontaneous communions whenever we like.

50:39 So be patient to what they are saying, and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting.

Nights

God does not mean that you shall never sleep and stay awake all nights but this is clarified in a certain chapter.

3:17 The patient, and the truthful, and the dutiful, and the givers, and the seekers of forgiveness in the late hours of the night.

17:79 And from the night, as an addition, you shall reflect upon it for yourself, perhaps your Lord would grant you a station that is praiseworthy.

50:40 And from the night glorify Him, and after prostrating.

52:49 Also from the night glorify Him, and at the fading of the stars.

76:26 And from the night you shall prostrate to Him and praise Him throughout.

Specification of nightly communication

73:2 Stand the night except for a little.
73:3 Half of it, or a little less than that.
73:4 Or a little more, and arrange the Qur?an in its arrangement.

73:6 The time of the night is more effective and better for study.
73:7 For you have many duties during the day.

73:20 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is made easy of the Qur?an. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it. And hold the communication and contribute towards purification and lend God a loan of righteousness. And whatever you put forth yourselves, you will find it with God, for it is better and a greater reward. And seek the forgiveness of God, for God is Forgiving, Merciful.

Conclusion

There are only two utterly important occasions during the day to perform one's Communion, although we can see that the devout will also glorify during daylight hours. Nights are for meditation, thinking and reflection upon creation.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 14, 2014, 05:43:30 PM
Lesson on 'Nearness and Guidance' part 3

Let us investigate the disputed word that is commonly translated into "contact prayer" (salah) and see that it is a communication taking place between the person performing it as in this case where Shu'ayb is told this:

11:87 They said: ?O Shu?ayb, does your contact prayer order you (?) that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!?

It implies that information is thought of being channeled down to the communicator, in this case Shu'aub. It breaks the myth of being a brain-dead uniform ritual. Thus you can say that the word in the verse with Zachariah, الدُّعَاءِ (aldduAAai), could as well be a part of a contact prayer, or as-salat. If you keep holding fast to the salah being a ritual where you aimlessly parrot verses from The Book or so then... keep reading and I will, God willing, intensify my attempts at convincing you. This is my duty from The Lord.

See that I have not done this because I master Arabic but because I enable my logic and God has blessed me with understanding. It can be done with the help of all the tools of understanding the Arabic passages and then simply through a deep analysis of the simple facts in their contexts, or logical deduction. Putting ALL instances of salat into testing and we can see that it can impossibly mean a stereotypical brainless ritual because as proven before in the thread it means that you can kill people unless they perform it and even birds perform them (!). But when you talk about channeling inspiration in a kind of communicative practice then it all makes sense. The birds perform it without any choice and they simply do it automatically. But for us humans is can come semi-automatically through channeling inspiration that we take the right life decisions and judgments. No wonder why salat is told to be done before giving testimony:

5:106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made, by two among you who are equitable. If you have gone forth in the land, and death is approaching, then any two may suffice - if you have doubt regarding them, then detain them after making the Communion, and they will swear by God: ?We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners.?



So Communion can be sort of translated into prayer although so much more than only parroting verses but full-fledged communication.

29:45 Recite what is inspired to you of the Message and hold the Communion, for the Communion prohibits immorality and vice; but certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

When you communicate and seek inspiration from God then you can prevent immorality because your eyes are opened due to your daily questions for Guidance to the right decisions in life. Simply monotonously bowing and kneeling down does not on its own help with that. We have many cases with Communion done by the servants of God in the past as previously presented to you by me where they ask God for Guidance in various situations.



Despite all the talk about Communion not being a ritual it is generally practiced under formal conditions. We have various verses that mean you ought to be concentrated and focused while performing it:

2:238 Maintain the Communion; and the middle Communion; and stand for God dutifully.
2:239 But if you are fearful, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.

Red: Translation disputed and I leave it be.

There is an example where Moses went away to an isolated place and undoubtedly performed a Communion under formal conditions:

28:24 So he drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?



Result of Communion:

31:3 A guide and a mercy for (2the good doers.
31:4 Those who (1) hold the Communion, and (2) contribute towards purification and (3) regarding the Hereafter they are certain.
31:5 These are on a guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful ones.

The communication with The Lord causes them to be on Guidance because God actively guides them in real time with backup of all the good deeds that they are able to perform with the channeled inspiration.

40:60 And your Lord said: ?Call on Me and I will respond to you.? Surely, those who are too arrogant to serve Me, they will enter Hell, humbled.

42:26 And those that believe and do good works respond to Him, and He increases for them His blessings. As for the rejecters, they have incurred a severe retribution.

What do you think He responds to? Yes very correct; The Lord responds to the Communion of His servants by giving them blessings. And response can be by obeying orders that are channeled down to you through inspiration as per 11:87 (?O Shu?ayb, does your contact prayer order you...?) and in return God will reward you with blessings, understanding and so on.

Do you still think that Communion is a brainless ritual? Enjoying yourself?

2:186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.

10:88 And Moses said: ?Our Lord, you have given Pharaoh and his commanders adornments and wealth in this worldly life so that they will misguide from Your path. Our Lord, wipe out their wealth and bring grief to their hearts; for they will not believe until they see the painful retribution.?
10:89 He said: ?Your call has been responded to, so keep straight and do not follow the path of those who do not know.?

Red: Communion with their wish.
Purple: Response - Wish granted
Green: When God responds He expects continued devotion to His cause

21:89 And Zachariah when he called out to his Lord: ?My Lord, do not leave me without an heir, and You are the best inheritor.?
21:90 So We responded to him, and We granted him John, and We cured his wife. They used to (2) hasten to do good, and they would (1) call to Us in joy and in fear. And of Us they (1) were reverent.
21:91 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
21:92 This is your nation, one nation, and I am your Lord so serve Me.

Face it; Communion is communication with The Lord, and on an intellectual level.

I suppose this rounds up Nearness and Guidance' and we know the basics of what there is to know about it.



And actually one more input actually connected to the last post (part 2) and prayer timings:

38:31 When, before evening, well trained horses were displayed before him.
38:32 He said: ?I have enjoyed materialism more than I enjoyed the remembrance of my Lord; until it had set beyond the horizon!?

The horses were presented to him before nightfall which infers that he was not forgetful of the Communion in the morning/dawn but it was when those horses were presented to him presumably some time during the day. Dawn Communion is difficult to forget about as it is the first thing you do when you wake up so it is hard to believe that that is it. It may be related to the "Middle Communion", which can be done while riding and walking if necessary.

We also know:

20:130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and at parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.

With this in mind I am confident to say that Communion is something to be done frequently throughout the day.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 15, 2014, 06:49:13 AM
Summary of 'Nearness and Guidance'

Let us summarize the last three lessons on this important part of our Faith.




2:238 Maintain the Communions; and the middle Communion; and stand for God dutifully.After the "and" (و) in the beginning of the sentence both the clause from that verse and the next seem to belong to each other despite the separation.
2:239 But if you are fearful, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.The following verse subtly indicates that the so called "middle prayer" can be done "while walking or riding" in case your are not safe during the daily chores because the verse is not with "and" (و) but rather continues as if part of the previous sentence/clause. There is no but or and in the Arabic discourse.

It is also quite clear that you can normally pray as soon as you get up after sleep and before you need to retreat for the day without fearing an enemy, because there is likely pauses where you rest anyway. Carefully applying the logic to the passages disregarding the linguistic barrier reveals this. In ancient times, halting in dangerous lands with your caravan could perhaps have been a dangerous venture, thus it might have been better to communicate "on-the-fly" like in this verse:

28:22 And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said: ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.?
But as soon as he was not on foot he did this, and what else other than a Communion would he do isolated for himself and he was likely not performing a brain-dead ritual:28:24 So he drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?



There is much to indicate that there is time for Communion from dawn to dusk not to mention the case with Solomon and his newly gotten horses.

Historically, if we accept the Bible and such hearsay as honest references to history they prayed at dawn, afternoon and evening. The reason why I say afternoon is because on one occasion someone refers to the "3 o'clock prayer". Apart from this reference there are obvious instances of Communion taking place during daylight. Even The Book (Qur'an) gives reference to Communion before nightfall as in this case:

50:39 So be patient to what they are saying, and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting.

From 24:58:
بَعْدِ صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ
Except for that it speaks about the approaches of the night (evening) before we retire for the night. Because after the night Communion we have private time and then children etc should be taught not to disturb. It is indicated in the sentence that it is because we take off our clothes and as you know showing yourself naked can be a bit immodest. Adults should certainly already know that one knocks before walking into someone's bedroom (24:59).

I accept what other people in God's system say about prayers, but I have carefully analyzed the discourse and I cannot draw any other logical conclusion from God's system that there are three recurring daily Communions, whereof two are repeated over and over again in The Book while glorification of The Lord during daylight is slightly more subtle but still there if you take the time of not being so overly criticizing of Communion. See the previous examples:

20:130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and at parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.

50:39 So be patient to what they are saying, and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting.



Apart from this there is absolutely nothing which prevents a Believer to communicate sporadically throughout the day like every hour or more. The point in these Communions which God has laid forth in The Book is that we never lose the remembrance of The Lord and that we turn to Him for Guidance.

I know people say this and that about the word "wusta", but even ignoring the whole verse and there is yet no way I can erase a Communion during daylight from the map.



So now that if you have not already performed Communion frequently I urge my fellow brothers and sisters to communicate with The Lord on a regular basis. Not as a brain-dead ritual like the Pagans but yet with some formality and intention and for you to seek God's Nearness and Guidance, that you may be protected from the evil one and his followers, and from yourself and our evil-minded nature.

Next lesson we may, God willing, turn over to 'Knowledge and Wisdom'. I am not sure if there is much to say about that one though because it comes sort of "auto-magically" with 'Nearness and Guidance', and good deeds. Perchance God will inspire me that I have something to say. God's Message is so plain simple that if people would follow these three lessons and what is already posted in this thread should pose more than enough. If we take one step closer to God, devoting ourselves to Him alone then The Lord will basically help us with the rest, as long as we are patient and steadfast and turning to Him for Guidance, and avoid shameful deeds.

God's circle of Faith comes in three easy steps and sincerely stepping up on one is a great victory.

Thank you for reading yet another dull post. I hope, God willing, that it may help someone.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 16, 2014, 02:56:48 PM
Lesson on 'Knowledge and Wisdom' part 1

A prerequisite to reach God-sanctioned Knowledge and Wisdom the previous part of the chain is utterly required where you need the proximity that Communion offers. Let us before we proceed with the topic of this post go through the intention with Communion one more time and add a few examples and details.

"I seek Your Nearness and Guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. I submit to Your Will"Example of introductory speech in a Communion; my own template when initiating contact, but please see that you can use your own customized speech.

2:186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided."that they may be guided" Okay. Now that we have become guided and have His Nearness? After this progress God will bless us with a deeper insight and wisdom, as long as we round up the Communions with purification and good deeds.

18:23 And do not simply say of something: ?I will do this tomorrow.?
18:24 ?Except if God wills.? And remember your Lord if you forget and say: ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this in wisdom.?

The person who would do this mistake would not yet have become blessed with 'Knowledge and Wisdom' even though he/she has enough 'Nearness and Guidance' to realize the error. As high on step two and you will hardly do this mistake because you know that God will have the utter say in what will happen tomorrow. God is in your mind at all times. But the moral lesson is not to be so sure about what is going to happen the next day.



28:10 And the heart of Moses? mother became anxious, that she nearly revealed her identity. But We strengthened her heart, so that she would be of the believers.
28:11 And she said to his sister: ?Follow his path.? So she watched him from afar, while they did not notice.
28:12 And We forbade him from accepting all the nursing mothers. Then his sister said: ?Shall I lead you to a household that can nurse him for you, and take good care of him??

Moses' mother was certainly near God and a devoted servant and due to the filled 'Nearness and Guidance' "meter" God blessed her with Wisdom in this case that she would see clearly and be wise in the situation. This is a piece of what you get by completing the previous step that I talked about. She nearly disobeyed God by breaking what was inspired in verse 28:7.

Red: She was inspired to use this strategy in this and the next verse.
Green: It was but a baby, but God intervened and made the baby reject all tries to nurse him.



Perfect example of where God's Knowledge and Wisdom comes handy and God remarks that performing a Communion asking for the right Guidance in the situation is best instead of judging based on your level of infusion of the Holy Spirit.

4:58 God orders you to deliver anything you have been entrusted with to its owners. And if you judge between the people, then you shall judge with justice. It is always the best that God prescribes for you. God is Hearer, Seer.

5:42 They listen to lies, and consume money illicitly. If they come to you, then you may judge between them or turn away from them; and if you turn away from them then they cannot harm you in the least; and if you judge then judge between them with justice. God loves those who are just.
5:43 And how can they make you their judge when they have the Torah/Teaching(s), in which there is the judgment of God; then they turn away after that. Those are not believers.

These people are typical sectarian religious people where God is not in their heart and they think that they are guided. Ironically these people may have Knowledge but nothing else and they have no way of applying it because they have drifted away from God, i.e. lacking Nearness and Guidance, nor are they wise.



10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.



The same as with these following righteous people we are to follow their example and gain 'Knowledge and Wisdom' through 'Nearness and Guidance' and good deeds.

12:22 And when he (Joseph) reached his independence, We gave him judgement and knowledge. It is thus that We reward the good doers.Observe this which proves my circle of Faith. Judgment here can be leaning towards Wisdom, so it is 'Knowledge and Wisdom'.

2:269 He grants Wisdom to whom He chooses, and whoever is granted wisdom has been given much good. Only those who possess intelligence will remember.

21:74 And Lot, We gave him Wisdom and Knowledge, and We saved him from the town that used to do vile things. They were a people of evil, wicked.
21:75 And We admitted him into Our mercy. He was of the good doers.

28:14 And when he (Moses) reached his independence and was established, We bestowed him with Wisdom and Knowledge. We thus reward the good doers.

31:12 And We had given Luqmaan the Wisdom: ?You shall be thankful to God, and whoever is thankful is being thankful for his own good. As for whoever rejects, then God is Rich, Praiseworthy.?

38:20 And We strengthened his (David's) kingship, and We gave him the Wisdom and the ability to make sound Judgment.



2:120 Neither the Jews nor the Nazarenes (nor the traditional Muslims) will be pleased with you until you follow their creed (of idolizing their Prophet and invented teachings). Say: ?The Guidance is the Guidance of God.? And if you follow their desires after the Knowledge that has come to you, then there is none who can help or protect you against God.

Note: Sorry, I simply had to add extra text within parenthesis to show how the situation is  ::)



3:7 He is the One who sent down to you the Lore, from which there are lawgiving revelations; they are the essence of the Lore; and others which are of a similitude. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow that which is of a similitude, seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in Knowledge; they say: ?We believe in it, all is from our Lord.? And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

Anyone can excel in what I have been talking about all these posts up until now. Knowledge and Wisdom of the level of Prophets and Messengers; "ordinary" people can have that and it is the face of God that you are supposed to seek and gain Guidance. To (1) call upon God, believe, purify yourselves and (2) do good deeds, that is what the Messengers came around and preached, and if you but do this God will make you wise and knowledgeable as you are infused with a higher degree of the spirit.

With Knowledge and Wisdom everything turns more and more crystal clear for you and life thus becomes easier. Suddenly you can reach a whole new dimension of philosophical thinking. Our existence is so obvious. Hence I have separated Knowledge and Wisdom from Nearness and Guidance because it is the growth within you that has now come, the realization.



The sad thing however, that I have felt myself, is how depressing it is to look upon the world with "brand new" eyes. You wish that God would deliver Judgment immediately to stop the madness. But this is what is the test and the majority of people will burn in Hell. I know people want to have a trouble believing this, but it is the fact that most people will actually never go to Heaven. Check these verses which clarify that most people will not continue:

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

11:17 For those who are on a clarity from their Lord, and are followed by a testimony from Him; and before it was the Book of Moses, a beacon and a mercy; they will believe in it. And whoever rejects it from among the Confederates, then the Fire is his meeting place. So do not be in any doubt about it. It is the truth from your Lord, but most of the people do not believe.

12:103 And most of the people, even if you are diligent, will not believe.

12:106 And most of them will not believe in God except while setting up partners.

13:1 ALMR, these are the signs of the Lore. And what has been sent down to you from your Lord is the truth; but most of the people do not believe.

40:59 Surely the Hour is coming, there is no doubt in it, but most of the people do not believe.

40:60 And your Lord said: ?Call on Me and I will respond to you.? Surely, those who are too arrogant to serve Me, they will enter Hell, humbled.

God is not harsh. It is obvious for an intelligent person to see that God exists. If only they were not so arrogant that they begun to seek God's Nearness and Guidance. God repeats over and over and over and over and over again in The Book (Qur'an) so many reasons to believe in God and yet people do not. A big portion of The Book goes to give reasons to believe. And with the advent of modern science there are a whole lot more because we are aware of more. The interesting thing is that atheism is like a trend now despite more ways of observing the Creation and our existence.

God willing, there would come down an updated Lore with analogies using modern science that you can see more signs. But sure they will be denied same as in the past despite an overwhelming Truth.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on March 22, 2014, 05:45:16 AM
Summary of 'Knowledge and Wisdom'

Found nothing else to add to this subtopic, so let us make a summarizing post. I composed yet another illustration to present things clearly.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/13326519185_95e135fb0b_o.jpg)

And our system consists of Faith (1) and Actions (2), so without the right deeds one will not progress on that path.

2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians (and the 'Muslims'), whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.



Knowledge and Wisdom comes when Communion with God has become established by the servant of God and the servant does good. The Guidance of God will help to accomplish this righteous commitment and the blessings will land plentifully upon the righteous servant boosting his/her Knowledge and Wisdom. It is the ability to judge fairly and act righteously in "the eyes" of God which you can say is the descriptive phrase of Knowledge and Wisdom.

It is important to know that this parameter is not that much concrete information but rather like a realization from the servant that simply emerges. To put it simply it is like I said before that the spirit of God, that rests inside of us until we depart from this world and that keeps everything going, will have grown inside our souls and body and hence we can gain inspiration to take the right steps in situations and be thoughtful before we act.

Sadly, or depending on how we see it, is that you can easily draw parallels to Star Wars and the 'Force' and for those who have watched Star Wars will be able to understand the phenomenon of the 'Holy Spirit'. It will help us perform our actions and deeds in our daily lives, just like in Star Wars, although with less "hocus pocus". Strong with the Force/Holy Spirit will lead to many more benefits than plainly without it.

Nearness and Guidance is like bonding with the Force (but in reality God of course) and let is flow through the veins to charge you and then prayers are like the meditation they perform in the motion picture Star Wars. The eyes of the practitioner are opened and you become more aware of the world around you. The phenomenon of becoming more aware can be seen as the 'Knowledge and Wisdom' I have been rambling on about. When you realize more about the Truth then you will naturally act more accordingly. Knowledge and Wisdom in this sense cannot that much be studied in books although text from The Book and other Truthful stories will become clear with more awareness of the Truth.

I hope this gave a good and thorough explanation of my concept and what Knowledge and Wisdom means and that it all can be found within The Book and studied. I have done efforts to prove my standing by referring to The Book that readers do not think I am only conjecturing.

Next time I will, God willing, start on the last subtopic of the thread called 'Peace and Prosperity'. The rewards of reaching Islam, or fulfilling the "Circle of Faith", are quite well described within The Book but it may be worth highlighting things anyway. Perchance some brother or sister may not have realized the connection between all parameters in Faith, i.e. between Nearness and Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom and Peace and Prosperity.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on April 10, 2014, 01:26:32 PM
Lesson on 'Peace and Prosperity' part 1

3:146 And many a prophet had a large number of Devotees fighting with him. They did not waver by what afflicted them in the cause of God, nor did they become weak, nor did they become discouraged; and God loves the patient ones.
3:147 And they did not say except: ?Our Lord, forgive us our sins and our shortcomings in our responsibility, and make firm our foothold, and grant us victory over the rejecting people.?
3:148 So God gave them the reward of this world and the best reward of the Hereafter; and God loves the good doers.

God will give people rewards in this life if they good so it would be unappreciative not to accept them by making one's life miserable while God wants to reward those that do good. It is often believed that people must abstain from all kinds of comforts and provisions in this life but they miss the fact that some of them may be rewards from God.

4:85 Whoever intercedes with a good intercession, he will have a reward of it; and whoever intercedes with an evil intercession, he will receive a share of it. And God has control over all things.

Doing good will be rewarding. This may not come without long-term testing, but persistent charity will be paid back without the slightest injustice, and that in this life as well as the next, which people ought to not forget.

12:22 And when he (Joseph) reached his independence, We gave him Judgement and Knowledge. It is thus that We reward the good doers.

Red: We can say that Joseph was blessed with Knowledge and Wisdom as in my chain of Faith.

16:97 Whoever does good works, whether male or female, and is a believer, We will give him a good life and We will reward them their dues with the best of what they used to do.

19:76 And God increases the guidance of those who are guided. And the goodness that endures is better with your Lord as a reward and a far better return.

Guided people that keep the circle of Faith will have their Guidance increased, and we know what is meant by keeping the circle of Faith, right? Yes exactly, it is (1) believe and (2) do good. That is the fundamental explanation of God's System.

28:14 And when he reached his independence and was established, We bestowed him with Wisdom and Knowledge. We thus reward the good doers.



28:22 And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said: ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.?
28:23 When he arrived at the watering hole of Midyan, he found a crowd of people watering, and he found two women waiting on the side. He said: ?What is holding you back.? They said: ?We cannot draw water until the shepherds finish, and our father is an old man.?
28:24 So he drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?
28:25 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said: ?My father invites you to reward you for watering for us.? So when he came to him, and told to him the stories, he said: ?Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people.?
28:26 One of the two women said: ?O my father, hire him. For the best to be hired is one who is strong and honest.?

Red & Purple: Moses is doing good and is receiving a reward for his deeds. If we follow what many people advocate when it comes to accept rewards then you may actually not follow God's System. Think about that.



Of course Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom are the best rewards of them all, so more than provisions.



13:26 God gives the provisions for whom He wishes, and He is Capable. And they were happy with the worldly life, but the worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing except a brief enjoyment.

16:112 And God puts forth the example of a town which was Peace-ful and content/Prosperous, its provisions were coming to it bountifully from all places, but then it rebelled against the blessings of God, and God made it taste hunger and fear for what they used to do.

Red: Sorry I gave a little reference to my own chain with Peace and Prosperity through the passages of The Recitation.

17:30 Your Lord lays out openly the provision for whom He wishes, and He is able to do so. He is Expert and Seer over His servants.



Here is a verse that many people mistranslate including Monotheist:

My translation: 19:62 They will not hear in it any nonsense, only peace. And they will have their provision in it Day and Night.
Monotheist translation: 19:62 They will not hear in it any nonsense, only peace. And they will have their provision in it morning and evening.

The phrase to get something Day and Night is a pretty common expression and so also in Arabic. With a modern tune-up we can say "around the clock". And same as in the example of 24:58 isha (عَشِيًّا) means Night and not evening as translations suggest. In that example salah al-isha (صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ) is something done before retiring for the night. I am not arguing what salah is here, only that this occurrence is something before going to sleep.



Here is what is disliked by God when it comes to provisions or bounty:

9:75 And from them are those who pledged to God: ?If He gives us from His bounty, then we will believe and we will be among the upright.?
9:76 So when He gave them from His bounty, they became stingy with it, and they turned away while they were averse.
9:77 Thus, hypocrisy follows in their hearts until the Day they meet Him; that is for breaking what they promised God, and for what they were lying.

I will try to continue on this subtopic for yet another post as I have run out of time for now.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on April 14, 2014, 01:15:18 PM
Lesson on 'Peace and Prosperity' part 2

Let us continue on the subtopic that I begun on the last time I wrote, 'Peace and Prosperity', i.e. the outcome of a dutiful and reverent lifestyle, and God gives us material rewards as well as more important abstract rewards which could also fall under the category 'Knowledge and Wisdom'. It is not shameful to accept these rewards, as long as we are not stingy with them and that we are thankful.

4:173 As for those who believe and do good works, He will give them their recompense and increase for them from His bounty. And as for those who are too proud and arrogant, He will punish them a painful retribution, and they will not find besides God any supporter or victor.

We can argue that this is for the next life, but rewards will also come in this life. Guidance is however surely the best reward of them all. But if we do like this then the Guidance will vanish:

9:75 And from them are those who pledged to God: ?If He gives us from His bounty, then we will believe and we will be among the upright.?
9:76 So when He gave them from His bounty, they became stingy with it, and they turned away while they were averse.
9:77 Thus, hypocrisy follows in their hearts until the Day they meet Him; that is for breaking what they promised God, and for what they were lying.



سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ نُوحٍ فِي الْعَالَمِينَ

37:79 Peace be upon Noah among the worlds.

We have argued before about the root س - ل - م, but we say that it has a nearly magical meaning difficult to translate into English. However I have realized it has no any particularly intricate meaning but means something quite simple. Anyway the point I wanted to get to was that anyone who follows a similar path to Noah (in this case 37:75 - 37:79) will have "Islam" الْإِسْلَامُ. If you get S L M like Noah in the above example then what you aim for is the path undertaken like in the example below:

3:20 If they debate with you, then say: ?I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me.? And say to those who have received the Book and the Gentiles: ?Have you submitted?? If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and God is Seer over the servants.

The problem with all kinds of translations and interpretations available is that they grossly create a kind of neanderthal worship of a deity while you can say that you "become one with the System" when you choose الْإِسْلَامُ.

There is a reason why I call this last portion of the chain as 'Peace and Prosperity' because it is simply put the state of الْإِسْلَامُ that you will gain. You are in union with God and His System so to say. Salat, or Communion, is a part of the whole unity as it is a kind of communication between you and your Lord and which those who do not really believe may mock you for if they discover that you appear to "speak to yourself" (or imaginary friend) when they cross your path while communicating with The Lord.

I cannot teach you salat, any rites or anything, but I can point towards الْإِسْلَامُ. Rashad Khalifa, or others calling themselves Messengers, wanted to teach you things never conveyed by God and God's Recitation wanted to tell people a few simple things that some people can use to write entire books about. Simply put all I will tell you is to (1) believe/be with God and (2) be good, and that is where my responsibility ends. It is a spiritual state, with no particular methods, like the bonding with the Force in Star Wars, for those knowing what I am talking about. Your actions will precede you and you will be held responsible only for your own deeds but you can always spread the Light. Such is being a good preacher.

3:19 إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۗ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ
3:19 The system with God is 'Peace and Prosperity', and those who received the Decree did not dispute except after the facts came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in judgment.

3:20 فَإِنْ حَاجُّوكَ فَقُلْ أَسْلَمْتُ وَجْهِيَ لِلَّهِ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ ۗ وَقُل لِّلَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْأُمِّيِّينَ أَأَسْلَمْتُمْ ۚ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُوا فَقَدِ اهْتَدَوا ۖ وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلَاغُ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ
3:20 If they debate with you, then say: ?I have "humbled"/harmonized myself to God, as well as those who follow me.? And say to those who have received the Decree and the Gentiles: ?Have you harmonized?? If they have harmonized then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and God is Seer over the servants.

Red: Insertion by me to raise your awareness. Moving into a kind of symbiotic state with a powerful system.
Green: Experimental translation. Word may imply this meaning. Importance is to turn the obsession away from distinct books.
Purple: In your studies of the Recitation, who is guided according to you? Is it not those that uphold a system of justice? And they have سَلَامٌ just like Noah in 37:79.

So what is الْإِسْلَامُ? Well, God tells throughout the Recitation that it is by upholding what is right, i.e. sound Judgment and Justice by literally bonding with The Lord, seeking His Nearness and Guidance and thus protection from the evil one and his followers. When you recite for protection from God (kind of in prayer) then this will be accomplished but only so when accompanied with good deeds. Corruption will be counter-productive.

In the case of God we can always figure about what the word Peace, or سَلَامٌ,  means and I think I complement its meaning nicely with Prosperity. It is a feeling of wellness and completion. A system of Peace/Harmony/Balance could be a fine extraction into English from the ancient Arabic discourse. Only those with a lack of understanding will translate the word into Submission as the word does not imply that. However, service to God is carrying out His will and it could thus give the impression that it is submission to God, but God has no need for us at all, we only do our service for the betterment of our own "souls"/person. On the other hand, we can somewhat "impress" God by going against the stream and actually show God that He did not create everything in vain after he was gravely disappointed "once upon a time". God knew what the "angels"/malaik did not; that some of those they thought would only spread mischief and vice would actually be eligible for salvation. Such people will be under God's protection in this life and live perfectly well in the next. God loves such people and the malaik will also intervene/intercede on the behalf of these people in the test.

And it does not mean living passive lives but rather standing up for rights and helping those exposed to tyrants and arrogant people. You should struggle that you cause like Jesus allegedly said: "may your will be done on Earth as is in Heaven". The practitioners that utter these words (in prayer) are supposed to stand up for the words themselves and live by them.

Note that 3:19 and 3:20 as previously quoted are followed by:

3:21 Those who reject the revelations of God and kill the prophets without right, and kill those who order justice from among the people; inform them of a painful retribution.

Does this not ring a bell for you? Can سَلَامٌ not mean much more than the System as previously mentioned of justice, equity and balance? This is your الْإِسْلَامُ.

37:80 It is such that We reward the righteous.
37:81 He (Noah) is of Our believing servants. (or participating servants depending on how you interpret امن).

Red: Like many other Arabic words in the context امن is another common yet misunderstood one. As I started to study this word phenomenon I realized belief is not an option and this is simply an invented meaning. There is no belief but either proclaiming or hiding (the Truth) without knowing or knowing. Surely those who have not realized the Truth argue as if it is a matter of belief, but there is no belief but either you know or you are unknowing. This is why the understanding of certain verses seem so dull (see below verses for an example) because for God is one step above belief but more like knowing and then joining in, so to say. You are with God or you are not with God, and if you are not with God then you are something like without understanding as God seems to put it. "Kufr" is one that intentionally struggles to hide the Truth and should not be used as a curse word against those that are ignorant to the Truth such as those who have divided their system into sects, causing division and animosity, while there is basically only one objective which is to the discretion of the user (of the system) to choose how to serve. Many different people serve with their specific performances and all will lead on the same path if they are good deeds. What is good is in the narration.

36:23 ?Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Almighty intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me.?
36:24 ?Then I would be clearly astray.?
36:25 ?I am with your Lord, so listen to me!?

Red: Perhaps it should not be translated this literally, but basically it means to have "joined in with" or simply joined. Is it not laughable when words finally come this clear?

Read that I am not teaching anything but rather "unteaching" what you know and putting things straight. This makes the Recitation so simply and easy that you may even laugh on how weird it feels. Like Yoda (from the motion picture 'Star Wars') said: "You must unlearn what you have learned".

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on April 16, 2014, 03:05:36 PM
Philosophy or even truthful corrections to understanding?
Peace to you dear readers. I finalized my whole main purpose of this thread with my last post, but I thought that I might as well continue to give philosophical input on what I have previously discovered on the interpretation of the Recitation by the alleged prophet Muhammad, and it may as well be true. What I discuss is not completely unfounded and I have spent a long time considering the meaning of many verses and sometimes it is from a logical analysis of the discourse rather than a linguistic one. I argue that in Arabic, words carry a very descriptive and fundamental meanings and do not have multiple meanings but almost the same meaning with some variations, which can be noticed through different spellings. Worth noticing is that I am no Arabic scholar, but I only got interested in the analysis of words and the flow of text from a literal standpoint and by seeing that sentences should look fluent and coherent to be the true interpretation as well as reasonable and logical befitting the "Islamic" philosophy.

I have argued that 'ketab' does not mean book based on many weird occasions where it sounds quite absurd and also that it is used for the English word 'decree' in many instances. Look at this experimental translation with controversial words in color:

2:87 And We gave Moses the Decree, and after him We sent the missionaries. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a missionary comes to you with what your souls do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill!

The same word is translated into 'letter' in the case of Solomon and the queen of Sheba. Check this experimental translation:

27:28 (Solomon:) ?Take this decree of mine and cast it to them, then withdraw from them and observe what they respond with.?
27:29 She said: ?O commanders, a noble decree has been delivered to me.?
27:30 ?It is from Solomon, and it reads: ?In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful??
27:31 ??Do not be arrogant towards me and come to me as harmonizers??

Note that it is more a command than a letter in nature, and you see that it is 'In the name of God...', i.e. written through divine inspiration. Solomon would not write this on his own behalf and formulated like this. The following phrase is indicating that it is God and they should not come towards Him with arrogance and to come as harmonizers. Noble is likely because it is signed "in the name of God.."

Red: Another experimentation with the word islam because traditionally it gives God a tyrannical feel when you say submitter.



You see how less idolatrous the recitation becomes with this alternative and probably more truthful interpretation of the ancient text? Moses received a decree and then the subsequent missionaries carried it out or upheld it in a succession. In my world these were not books but decrees, look into this verse with plural ketab (kutub):

66:12 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Decrees; and she was of those who were dutiful.

Why is dutiful mentioned in conjunction to the previous words? Because kutub in the previous phrase is decrees.

In terms of the "scribe" mentioned in some verses where ketab's root is used is probably likely to be a jurist (or similar) rather than scribe/writer, a person authorized for this kind of work.

You may wonder why it matters if ketaab is understood as book or decree, like my wife did, but it is actually making a big difference in understanding. It causes divine texts to become idols, particularly the so-called "Qur'an" which has no real name but is only called just "the recitation".

You may also have wondered why there seems to be only one highlighted al-ketaab throughout the whole narration, and that is basically because there is only a generic decree. The whole concept is gathered under the decree. This is why I erroneously but not so badly mistranslated the decree as message for a long time (see the earlier of my posts in this thread) and I tried several times with alternatives until I realized the simplest possible meaning was the Truth.

2:2 That is the Decree in which there is no doubt, a guidance for the righteous.

A guidance because you have a decree for them, i.e. the righteous ones.

2:78 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Decree except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
2:79 So woe to those who decree the Decree with their hands then say: ?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.

Green: Certainly in English a literal translation sounds a bit lame. I also wonder if "their hands" is intended to be literal, particularly in the context with hearsay. Consider that the same word for hand is used in 3:26 attributed to God and do you honestly think that God has hands? (see below)
Red: The same people conjecture.

قُلِ اللَّهُمَّ مَالِكَ الْمُلْكِ تُؤْتِي الْمُلْكَ مَن تَشَاءُ وَتَنزِعُ الْمُلْكَ مِمَّن تَشَاءُ وَتُعِزُّ مَن تَشَاءُ وَتُذِلُّ مَن تَشَاءُ ۖ بِيَدِكَ الْخَيْرُ ۖ إِنَّكَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
3:26 Say: ?Our god, Possessor of kingship; you grant kingship to whom You please, and revoke kingship from whom You please, and honor whom You please, and humiliate whom You please; in Your hand is goodness. You are capable of all things.?

Compare 2:79:

فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَٰذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللَّهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۖ فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ


Decree sounds much more accurate and to falsely decree something is the most dangerous of blasphemy, i.e. when you give teachings and then attribute them to God and weak-minded and misled people believe in it.



I am certain that ketaab in all instances basically carry the same meaning, i.e. to decree something in different ways, particularly in commanding or law-giving ways. Another traditional use is as record or record something as in:

2:282 O you who believe, if you borrow for a future period, then you shall decree it. And let a "decreer"/jurist of justice decree it for you; and let not the jurist refuse to decree as God has taught him. Let him decree and let the person who is borrowing dictate to him, and let him be aware of God, and let him not reduce from it anything. If the one who is borrowing is immature or weak or he cannot dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate with justice; and bring two witnesses from among your men; if there are not two men, then a man and two women from whom you will accept their testimony, so that if one of them becomes blindsided, then the one can remind the other. And let the witnesses not refuse to come if they are called. And do not fail to decree it no matter how small or large until its maturity. That is more just with God and better for the testimony, and better that you do not have doubts; except if it is a trade to be done on the spot between you, then there is no sin upon you if you do not record it. And have evidence if you trade. No jurist shall be harmed nor any witness; for if you do so then it is a wickedness on your part, and be aware of God and God teaches you and God is aware of all things.

3:53 ?Our Lord, we believe in what You have sent down, and followed the messenger, so decree/order us with those who bear witness.?

3:145 It is not permitted for a soul to die except by the permission of God in an appointed decree. And whoever wants the reward of this world We give him of it, and whoever wants the reward of the Hereafter, We give him of it. And We will reward the thankful.

3:181 God has heard the words of those who said: ?God is poor and we are rich!? We will decree (for) what they have said and (for) their killing of the prophets without right; and We will say: ?Taste the retribution of the Fire!?

Purple: This is the decree in the context.

Note the following verse is not completely understood as should be. I have personally not the right one but with decree as translation it could be corrected with some work:

4:81 And they say: ?Obedience? but when they come out from being with you a group of them prepares for other that what you have said, and God decrees what they planned. So turn away from them and put your trust in God. God is enough for your trust.

6:38 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the decree; then to their Lord they will be gathered.

6:59 And with Him are the keys of the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except He knows of it; nor a seed in the darkness of the earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all in a clear decree.

9:121 And anything small or large they spend, or any valley they cross, God will decree a recompense for them with the best of what they did.

Green: Entirely "remastered" English phrase based on the original Arabic using decree rather than record.

I see little reason why to ever consider ketaab to mean book ever again. And 'decree' fits the context all the time, when you do not manipulate the interpretation to fit things like record. It becomes more fluent and strange interpretations vanish in the occurrences with ketab. Record is a conclusion people have drawn based on their material obsession and is rooted in the understanding of it as book.

Let us continue because I know people will still hesitate:

10:21 And if We let the people taste a mercy after some hardship had afflicted them, they take to scheming against Our revelations! Say: ?God is faster in scheming;? Our missionaries decree what you scheme.

Green: Could be that they cannot keep their secrets hidden. Available translation likely lackluster.

10:61 And any matter you are in, or any reciting you do of the Qur?an, or any work you do; We are witnesses over you when you undertake it. Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, except it is clearly decreed,
10:62 For the allies of God (that) there is no fear over them nor will they grieve.
10:63 Those who have believed and are aware.
10:64 For them are glad tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. There is no changing the words of God. Such is the great triumph.

Purple: I.e. no changing of the decree.

17:13 And We have attached to the neck of every man his deeds, and We bring forth for him a decree on the Day of Resurrection which he will find on display.
17:14 Read your decree! It is sufficient for you that you are aware of yourself today.


Green: I.e. his fate or decree for the remainder of his horrible time afterwards.

17:58 And there is not a town before the Day of Resurrection that We will not destroy it, or punish it with a severe punishment. This is in the decree.

19:79 No, for what he says, We will decree an increase for him of the retribution significantly.
19:80 Then We inherit from him all that he said, and he shall come to Us all alone.

It is past midnight here and I have no more time to write, but I hope it makes sense to you, if you have appreciated what I wrote and not taken it for mad ramblings.

God bless us all
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on April 21, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
Continuation of the research on ketab (in all forms)
I will continue to give new light to phrases of the recitation for you to see if you can realign your thoughts that you realize that ketab is not book, not record but decree in all uses of the word. It takes new thinking and pondering upon what the phrases mean with decree as the keyword.

وَلَا نُكَلِّفُ نَفْسًا إِلَّا وُسْعَهَا ۖ وَلَدَيْنَا كِتَابٌ يَنطِقُ بِالْحَقِّ ۚ وَهُمْ لَا يُظْلَمُونَ
23:62 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a decree that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.

Red: Why is this word obsessively translated into book everywhere in the recitation but when it becomes complicated it is all of a sudden translated as record. Nay, it means decree in all forms of the word as shown in the previous post, although you need to adapt the word in English into something like "jurist" for a person who works with decrees, where "scribe" is traditionally used .

35:11 And God created you from dust, then from a seed, then He made you into pairs. And no female becomes pregnant, nor gives birth, without His knowledge. Nor does anyone have his life extended, or his life is shortened, except in a decree. This is easy for God.

God decrees this thing if a persons life is shortened or extended, i.e. it is in a decree.

36:11 You can only warn him who follows the Reminder, and is concerned towards the Almighty while unseen. Give him good news of forgiveness and a generous reward.
36:12 It is indeed Us who resurrect the dead, and We decree what they have done and left behind. And everything We have counted in a clear ledger.

Red: Their deeds and its reward.

43:19 And they have claimed the angels who are with the Almighty are females! Have they been made witness to their creation? We will decree their testimony, and they will be asked.

Green: Much like "order their testimony" you see, not record.

43:80 Or do they think that We do not hear their secrets and their private counsel? Yes indeed; and Our missionaries are with them, decreeing.
43:81 Say: ?If the Almighty had a son, I would be the first to serve!?
43:82 Glory be to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, from what they describe.

45:28 And you will see every nation lined-up together. Every nation will be called to its decree. ?Today, you will be recompensed for everything you have done.?
45:29 ?This is Our decree; it utters the truth about you. We used to transcribe/copy/record what you used to do.?
45:30 As for those who believed and did good works, their Lord will admit them into His mercy. Such is the clear triumph.
45:31 As for those who disbelieve: ?Were not My revelations recited to you, but you turned arrogant and were a criminal people??

Red: Uncertain translation. I did not want to put any more thinking power into this, but it sounds pretty absurd. Perhaps record in this case is right for the phrase.

52:1 By the mount.
52:2 And an inscribed decree.
52:3 In parchment published.

57:22 No misfortune can happen on the earth, or in yourselves, except it is in a decree, before We bring it about. This is easy for God to do.

58:6 The Day when God resurrects them all, then He informs them of what they had done. God has decreed it, while they have forgotten it. God witnesses all things.

I.e. people have forgotten what the decree was. It does not make sense with the traditional recorded and they forgot. One hardly forgets something like it.

69:19 As for the one who is given his decree/(verdict) in his right, he will say: ?Here, come and read my decree!?
69:20 ?I knew that I was going to be held accountable.?

69:25 As for him who is given his decree in his left, he will say: ?Oh, I wish I never received my decree,?
69:26 ?And that I never knew my account,?
69:27 ?I wish the end had been final,?
69:28 ?My money cannot help me,?

78:29 And everything We have counted in a decree.

Peace out. Now I am tired of this word actually. Next time I might look into something else.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on May 30, 2014, 02:52:58 PM
Kafir - Does it really means to reject or disbelieve?

I went into some serious thinking after philosophizing upon which people The Master will really place in Hell. I begun to think that the Arabic word 'kafir' does not simply mean reject/disbelieve, but it means much more. And more or less all instances with the word is in a negative context where its attributed targets have been doing very bad things, and not simply disbelieving in God. I have not yet found an instance of when God threatens of throwing someone in Hell except while doing some serious mischief.

I was thinking it may mean "corruptor" rather than disbeliever/rejector, but that did not fit all occurrences of the word in "mid-quranic" sections. 'Corrupt with God and His Messenger' it would indicate with my imaginative theory which does sound lame. Yet all known instances of the word 'kafir' has been in instances where its culprits have done bad things and not simply for being ignorant to God's existence and only saying God does not exist.

And I do not believe in the concept of 'belief' but we can have various levels of faith, but there are no disbelievers and only corruptors or the likes. You need to remember that even Satan is a kafir and he sure knows about God. A kafir is not someone that does not think that God is non-existent. Despite my faulty theory of corruptor, disbeliever or rejector does not fit as translation either. Rejector is a better translation, but if we go into real-life scenarios, atheists deny the entire existence of God and then the Arabic word kafir in inaccurate in my opinion. It is not that target that God in an angry-like way threatens to throw straight into Hell, and which atheists openly use as an argument to call God a terrorist etc. The target 'kafir' in the context of the recitation to X (allegedly Muhammad) is for someone who refuses to harmonize with the force in the universe, i.e. what we generally call God, and they spread mischief, just as Satan.

Someone that does not believe has no faith, but can be a good person as we already know, although they are basically living for nothing and are no better than animals in that regard. The question is if God will throw a person living a righteous albeit with a lack of faith in a supernatural entity. A question is whether this person innately has faith despite being ignorant to this fact. And another is if God will throw an ignorant person which still does good into the hellfire. It does rhyme pretty badly with the narration and virtually 50% of the faith is accomplished merely by doing good.

This topic is something very commonly attacked by atheists on adherents to both the sects Islam and Christianity, and God is oftentimes called a tyrant or terrorist. God comes down on a neanderthal level while being the most advanced entity in the universe. I think that they would be less insistent if they knew that God throws who commit atrocities into Hell and not plainly through lack of faith. In ways I can understand why some people despise "religion" because of all the stupidity that is done in the name of god(s) while attributing it to the Master of the Universe who is innocent of what they do, and that the 'kafiroon' that God mentions in the recitation to X (allegedly Muhammad) are these people performing the stupidity in the world, i.e. all those crimes in the name of god, and it they that God angrily say will taste the retribution of Hell.

And many of the problems stem from the interpretation of this word 'kafir' which is misused plentifully by the sectarians and how "Islam" is perceived by the crowd.

And know that Hell is barely talked about in the text collection referred to as the Bible for some reason, but a retribution from God is commonly referred to. This kind of punishment of Hell does primarily seem to be to the real criminals of the world and not the common atheist without faith. And the concept of Hell is many times used to scare people who do not need to be scared to obey to sectarian rules. One example is if one does not do five prayers per day, exactly the sectarian way, they are thrown in Hell.

Indeed religion is a scary invention.

But kafir is not merely disbelieve or reject except while done so by committing crimes causing a disturbance in the harmony (Islam). You cannot say an atheist is a kafir and that deserves to be killed or be unkind against because of their apparent lack of faith. People, such as the people who killed a woman in Pakistan the past few days are kafirs. They corrupt and do evil. One has to fulfill the criteria of working against the system of God to qualify to be a kafir.

I will try to look deeper into the word because it is important to our understanding. Jesus in the (perhaps unreliable) Gospel testimonies written by his followers said that people had a lack of faith and not that they were disbelievers. You lack iman or do not have iman, but there is no disbeliever. The concept of disbeliever invites to transgression. A disbeliever is in that case someone who corrupts and spreads mischief.

Shame I had no more news on this as I thought when I begun studying the phenomenon with a zoom lens.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: JavaLatte on May 30, 2014, 08:08:06 PM
I went into some serious thinking after philosophizing upon which people The Master will really place in Hell.

Quote
Someone that does not believe has no faith, but can be a good person as we already know, although they are basically living for nothing and are no better than animals in that regard. The question is if God will throw a person living a righteous albeit with a lack of faith in a supernatural entity. A question is whether this person innately has faith despite being ignorant to this fact. And another is if God will throw an ignorant person which still does good into the hellfire. It does rhyme pretty badly with the narration and virtually 50% of the faith is accomplished merely by doing good.

Quote
This topic is something very commonly attacked by atheists on adherents to both the sects Islam and Christianity, and God is oftentimes called a tyrant or terrorist.



For us, may be very hard to see our loved ones turn away from God. Especially if we perceive them as "good people" or "kind/nice people" by our limited knowledge as human.


I've ever tried many ways in order to make my Christian friend to realize the falsehood of trinity, long time struggle and so many discussions/debates between us.

I was hoping very much that someday he will realize that Jesus is not God. He was a very dear friend, so it's very hard for me to know that he's devout in worshiping Jesus.

After very much struggle in a quite long time and always fail, I finally quit my attempt. I have to trust upon God for his destiny.

God knows what I don't know. I should let God decides what will happen to His own creations.


(6:35)
If their aversion is hard on you (distress you), then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the Earth, or a ladder to the heavens,  in order to bring them bring them a sign. Had God willed, He would have gathered them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.

(73:11)
And leave Me to deal with the deniers who enjoy the blessings of life, and give them time for a while.

(74:11)
So leave Me alone with the one I have created.



Those verses remind me to not interfere in the decision of God.

When I was still in my urge to change my Christian friend, then reading those kind of verses was pretty shook me, but over time I learned to accept God's decision over my friend.


I believe any type of attacks/critics from the atheist cannot change God's decree.

God knows very well what He decided for each of us.


Peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: Man of Faith on May 31, 2014, 12:30:37 AM
Peace,

Thanks for your words. I am nowadays sure that all it takes is a person who believes in ONE creator entity and who does good to qualify for The Master's kingdom. So summary is that it takes faith and good deeds and it is declared in the recitation that it is enough. God even says that "they say you have to be "X" to be accepted", but anyone who believes and does good will have nothing to fear. They follow the decree because it does not take barely reading it to know what the decree is. The only ones who dispute about it are those who received it while they know. It is a merciful and simple decree not difficult to follow really. People who follow the popular "Christian values" have practically grasped it. It is only that most people do not have faith except while giving God partners.

God bless you
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: JavaLatte on May 31, 2014, 01:53:56 AM
It is only that most people do not have faith except while giving God partners.

Indeed. That's VERY serious issue.


I believe my Christian friend knows that God is One,

but the problem is he insisted that Jesus = God.

For him, worshiping Jesus is the same as worshiping God.   :'(

His father is a Pastor.


Peace.
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: mmkhan on May 31, 2014, 02:11:58 AM
For us, may be very hard to see our loved ones turn away from God. Especially if we perceive them as "good people" or "kind/nice people" by our limited knowledge as human.

I've ever tried many ways in order to make my Christian friend to realize the falsehood of trinity, long time struggle and so many discussions/debates between us.

I was hoping very much that someday he will realize that Jesus is not God. He was a very dear friend, so it's very hard for me to know that he's devout in worshiping Jesus.

After very much struggle in a quite long time and always fail, I finally quit my attempt. I have to trust upon God for his destiny.

God knows what I don't know. I should let God decides what will happen to His own creations.

(6:35)
If their aversion is hard on you (distress you), then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the Earth, or a ladder to the heavens,  in order to bring them bring them a sign. Had God willed, He would have gathered them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.

(73:11)
And leave Me to deal with the deniers who enjoy the blessings of life, and give them time for a while.

(74:11)
So leave Me alone with the one I have created.



Those verses remind me to not interfere in the decision of God.

When I was still in my urge to change my Christian friend, then reading those kind of verses was pretty shook me, but over time I learned to accept God's decision over my friend.

I believe any type of attacks/critics from the atheist cannot change God's decree.

God knows very well what He decided for each of us.


Peace.

Salaam,

MashaAllah, very well said :bravo:


May Allah reward you the best and guide us on His path :pr
mmKhan
Title: Re: Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post by: mmkhan on May 31, 2014, 02:21:29 AM
Kafir - Does it really means to reject or disbelieve?

I went into some serious thinking after philosophizing upon which people The Master will really place in Hell. I begun to think that the Arabic word 'kafir' does not simply mean reject/disbelieve, but it means much more. And more or less all instances with the word is in a negative context where its attributed targets have been doing very bad things, and not simply disbelieving in God. I have not yet found an instance of when God threatens of throwing someone in Hell except while doing some serious mischief.

Salaam,

I understood the word kafir from 2:34 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=34), easy and simple, alhamduliAllah. And disbelieving in Allah is not a kafir as per my understanding.

There are two things shown in 2:34 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=34),
1- Refusal of Allah's command.
2- Pride.


These two things made him kafir.
If you notice the derivative of word أَبَىٰ is used in 33:72 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=33&verse=72) as أَبَيْنَ means they refused, but still Allah did not called them kafir as He did for Iblis in 2:34 (http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=34) because they did not do takabbur [proud].<