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General Issues / Questions => Prophets and Messengers => Topic started by: gryphon on July 05, 2010, 11:50:09 AM

Title: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: gryphon on July 05, 2010, 11:50:09 AM
Despite the definitions of who is a Muslim and a Momin in the Holy Quran, the ulema of today state that an essential element to being a Muslim and a Momin is the belief that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sa) was the last and final prophet (nabi) such that any claimant to prophethood (nubuwwat) after him necessarily blasphemes against his honour.  The basis for this assertion is that the word "Khatam" means "last" (and not 'seal" or "emblem") which is informed by the Hadith which states 'laa nabiyya ba'adi'.  Note that according to the Ahl-Hadith, the Hadith informs us as to how to interpret the Holy Quran, and the Holy Quran must be interpreted in light of the Hadith, not vice-versa.  

Looking at the Holy Quran in isolation from the Hadith, it becomes clear that no such prohibition against future prophethood within Islam exists.  When one reads the Holy Quran 33:40 in full, it becomes difficult to interpret it as anything other than a prediction of future prophets, in this case, Muslim prophets.  In 33:40, the Holy Quran answers the charge that the Holy Prophet "is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Khatam-an-Nabiyeen ...".  The notion of being Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is, by virtue of the word "but", meant to be an answer to the lack of adult male paternity with something better.  If the meaning of Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is that the Holy Prophet is literally the last prophet, then the entirety of the verse does not make sense.  The term Khatam-an-Nabiyeen must be a prediction of another type of paternity, in this case, spiritual paternity, namely, of prophets (nabiyeen).  In other words, this verse is predictive of future prophets who will be legitimate by virtue of their following the Holy Prophet and thus bearing his seal (khatam).  This interpretation is further supported by 108:3 -- who is the issue (abtar) that the Holy Quran predicts for the Holy Prophet?  If the Holy Prophet is to have abtar, it must be in the form of Muslim prophets as noted by 33:40.

The blessing of prophethood for the Muslim ummah is guaranteed by the Holy Quran in 4:69.  In this verse, nubuwwat is included as the blessing for those who obey Allah and the Holy Prophet Muhammad along with the blessings of being amongst the siddiqeen (truthful), saliheen (righteous) and the shohada (witnesses/martyrs).  Further, the Holy Quran states prophets and messengers are one and the same (72:26-27) and that they can be raised amongst the Banu Adam (People of Adam) at 7:35-36.  As all of humanity is Banu Adam, then this verse must also refer to the Muslim ummah. Lastly, 3:81 refers to a covenant taken from certain prophets on behalf of their people regarding their future acceptance of prophets, and 33:7 states that this covenant was also taken with the Holy Prophet on behalf of his ummah.

The notion that a prophet can be raised amongst the Muslim ummah appears to bolster, not detract, from the prestige of the Holy Prophet Muhammad.  After all, the blessing given to the Prophet Abraham was that prophets would be raised from amongst his progeny (29:27, 57:26, 2:129).  If future prophethood was a blessing to Abraham, why is it an insult to the Holy Prophet Muhammad?  Further, if the notion of prophets from amongst the Jewish ummah does not detract from the prestige of Prophet Moses, then why would it do so for the Holy Prophet Muhammad?  If prophets can follow Jewish law and thus be subordinate to the Prophet Moses, then why can't Muslim prophets be subordinate to the Holy Prophet Muhammad?

While the Holy Quran does not state that the Prophet Jesus is to return, at 62:2-4, it does state that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is to return amongst the akhireen (those who have not yet joined them).  As the Holy Prophet passed away, surely these verses are referring to someone else who will fulfill the "second coming" on the Holy Prophet's behalf (like John the Baptist fulfilled Elijah's second coming, see Matthew 11:14 and 17:12-13).  As no Muslim believes in the literal second coming of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, to what prophet is 62:2-4 referring?  

The assertion that no prophet can come after the Holy Prophet emanates from the Last Sermon and from the Hadith which states (addressing Hadrat Ali): "You are to me as Aaron was to Moses, except there is no prophet after me (laa nabiyya ba'adi)." (Bokhari, Abu Daud, Tirmidhi and Mishkat).  Assuming that this last Hadith is authentic, as the analogy drawn by the Holy Prophet is to the relationship between the Prophet Moses and the Prophet Aaron, strictly speaking, the issue is whether the Holy Prophet Muhammad was granted a co-prophet during his lifetime like Prophet Moses was.  According to the analogy drawn by this Hadith, only prophethood during the Holy Prophet's lifetime is precluded, not after it.  To interpret this Hadith otherwise renders the Moses-Aaron analogy as non-sensical. This interpretation also informs how the Last Sermon is to be interpreted.

The general Sunni Muslim ummah is awaiting the second coming of the Prophet Jesus who will descend as Islam's Promised Messiah.  Their belief is that Jesus is alive and in Heaven and he will descend as a Muslim.  However, both of these beliefs are against the Holy Quran.  Another paper on this site demonstrates how, based on the Holy Quran, the Prophet Jesus is not alive but rather, passed away like all prophets (see 3:55, 5:116-117, 21:8, 5:75, 23:50 and 3:144).  Further, according to the Holy Quran, Prophet Jesus was a prophet sent exclusively to Bani Israil (3:49 and 61:6).  Therefore, if Prophet Jesus is to return literally for the Muslim ummah, then the verses describing him as no longer alive and as a prophet for the Jews only are to be deemed, God forbid, abrogated and non-eternal.  Further, the notion that an Israelite prophet would need to be brought back in order to reform the Muslim ummah seems insulting to the Holy Prophet Muhammad because, based on this belief, no Muslim could ever be capable of reaching the status that a follower of Prophet Moses could reach.

By focussing on the Holy Quran alone, that prophethood amongst the Muslims is not precluded appears clear, and once again, the ulema of today persist in misguiding the Muslim ummah.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: Jack on July 05, 2010, 12:03:55 PM
Peace gryphon and Welcome.

Interesting article. I would add that 'seal of the prophets' refers to the consummation of the message. 

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599123.msg223381#msg223381
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: Mazhar on July 06, 2010, 04:52:07 AM
Quote
Looking at the Holy Quran in isolation from the Hadith, it becomes clear that no such prohibition against future prophethood within Islam exists.  When one reads the Holy Quran 33:40 in full, it becomes difficult to interpret it as anything other than a prediction of future prophets, in this case, Muslim prophets.  In 33:40, the Holy Quran answers the charge that the Holy Prophet "is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Khatam-an-Nabiyeen ...".  The notion of being Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is, by virtue of the word "but", meant to be an answer to the lack of adult male paternity with something better.  If the meaning of Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is that the Holy Prophet is literally the last prophet, then the entirety of the verse does not make sense.  The term Khatam-an-Nabiyeen must be a prediction of another type of paternity, in this case, spiritual paternity, namely, of prophets (nabiyeen).  In other words, this verse is predictive of future prophets who will be legitimate by virtue of their following the Holy Prophet and thus bearing his seal (khatam).

This perception is unfortunately reflective of lack of even basics of Arabic language. The momet the compoumd word is analysed this perception withers away like the scum on the surface of a liquid.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: loxbox13 on October 14, 2010, 02:23:11 PM
Khatam = Ring / Seal / Last / End / finishing /
All mea,i,gs point to Last

But if we use one logic, what's the role of prophets ?  delivering a book or teaching a previous book

Do Mankind need a prophet ?  we have all the science, all the history, more developed intellectually than any generation before us, we have an analtered book,  I think  it make more sense that most people in this forum for example are doing efforts in understanding the book and they are doing fine,  that's the reason why allah doesn't send more prophets,  except if we become too lazy and need someone who just come and tell us here it is,  this is the whole meanings, don(t forget, that soon, very soon, sunnis and shi'as are gonna realise that the quran is the only book, than you(ll see 2 billions coranists, peace and propserity, for they become smart and the whole world will accept the quran except thoss satanists, I believe it is coming , our prophet is the book
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: antibhondo on December 31, 2010, 06:20:58 AM
Khatam = Ring / Seal / Last / End / finishing /
All mea,i,gs point to Last

But if we use one logic, what's the role of prophets ?  delivering a book or teaching a previous book

Do Mankind need a prophet ?  we have all the science, all the history, more developed intellectually than any generation before us, we have an analtered book,  I think  it make more sense that most people in this forum for example are doing efforts in understanding the book and they are doing fine,  that's the reason why allah doesn't send more prophets,  except if we become too lazy and need someone who just come and tell us here it is,  this is the whole meanings, don(t forget, that soon, very soon, sunnis and shi'as are gonna realise that the quran is the only book, than you(ll see 2 billions coranists, peace and propserity, for they become smart and the whole world will accept the quran except thoss satanists, I believe it is coming , our prophet is the book

Assalamu Alaikum.
Representing the messenger's duty as only "delivering a book or teaching a previous book" does not represent the total picture of the Quran's ayats on this particular issue.

In some ayats, you are right, Allah told Muhammad (SM) to deliver the message only {{3:20>>but if they turn away, then you are only to deliver}}, or {{5:99>>The only duty of the messenger is to deliver}}

but
there are some ayats which clearly indicates the necessity of an explanation of the ayats mentioned just above. Some of them are:
1-a) 24:54
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say:    24:54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.
_____

Please, listen, I am not talking now about {{If you obey him, you will be guided}}.

I am talking about the last portion of the ayat, The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

His duty will not be accomplished only by delivering the message like a BIRD THAT CAN TALK, he also has to make the message clear.

1-b) Another ayat that brings the issue in the same manner:
16:44 With clear signs (بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ) and Books (وَالزُّبُرِ) (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (الذِّكْرَ)(the Quran), that you may explain clearly (لِتُبَيِّنَ) to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

1-c) Let us discuss a portion of an end note, in this context, provided in Quran: A Reformist Translation by Edip-Layth.
_____________________________________________________________________
Edip-Layth - End Note 7 (16:44)
The Arabic word BaYaNa means (1) explain an ambiguous message; or (2) declare a
hidden message. This multiple-meaning verse is one of the most abused verses by
the followers of hadith hearsay. They choose the first meaning. Their rendering,
however, contradicts many verses of the Quran: the Quran is explained not by
Muhammad, but by its author, God Himself (75:19). Thus it is described as a
"clarified/explained book" (5:15; 12:1; 26:195; 44:6), and we are reminded over and
over that it is "easy to understand" (54:17,22,32,40). Thus, the second alternative
 is the intended meaning, since the Quran was received by Muhammad in a private
session called revelation, and his job was to deliver and declare the message he
received. God orders Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to
him personally. Indeed, this is the whole mission of the messengers (16:35).
Thus, the word "litubayyena" of 16:44 is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells
 us that the people who received the revelation should "proclaim the scripture to the
people, and never conceal it." See 2:159,160; 3:187 and 16:64. For a comparative
discussion on verse 16:44, see the Sample Comparisons section in the Introduction.
The Quran is simple to understand (54:11). _____________________________________________________________________

1-c-i) This explanation is very nice to read.
But I have got another verse,
16:82, where, the translation given by Edip-Layth is:

16:82 So if they turn away, then you are only required to deliver clearly.

 :confused: :confused: :confused:

And another ayath translated by Edip-Layth,
[5:92 Obey God and obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away then know that the duty of the messenger is clear deliverance.]

 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

And another ayath (what I already have provided),
24:54
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say:    24:54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


1-c-ii) It seems that Quran: A Reformist Translation itself has used the first meaning [(1) explain an ambiguous message] without sensing any contradiction with any other verses of Quran.

1-c-iii) Actually, there is no contradiction in using the first meaning of the Arabic word BaYaNa.
Let me explain.

>> About contradiction with 75:19 (Then it is for Us to clarify it), and "clarified/explained book" (5:15; 12:1; 26:195; 44:6), easy to understand (54:17,22,32,40)

This ayats mean that Allah has explained the Quran by demonstrating the whole quran in the real life of a human, who is just like us. So, when this "human" is doing something in front of the people as to complying with the "WAHY" of Allah [See 7:203>>Say, "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. These are enlightenments from your Lord, a guide and a mercy to a people who acknowledge."], this becomes a "making clear" thing for those people. In this way, Allah has cleared and explained everything of Quran, and Muhammad (SM) has made clear, ofcourse with the continuous guidance of Allah.

So both are correct. Allah has explained the ayats by implementing the ayats in the real life of a human, who is like us.. And Muhammad (sm) has explained the ayats by complying with the WAHY under continuous guidance of Allah.

>> About contradiction with the ayath 54:11

In the End Note 7 (16:44) by Edip-Lath regarding the Ayath 16:44, Edip-Layth says that {{The Quran is simple to understand (54:11)}}
But what does 54:11 say? 54:11 So We opened the gates of the sky with pouring water. [Edip-Layth]

I don't know what he meant by that.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: Edip Yuksel on December 31, 2010, 10:48:59 AM
>> About contradiction with the ayath 54:11

In the End Note 7 (16:44) by Edip-Lath regarding the Ayath 16:44, Edip-Layth says that {{The Quran is simple to understand (54:11)}}
But what does 54:11 say? 54:11 So We opened the gates of the sky with pouring water. [Edip-Layth]

I don't know what he meant by that.

Thank you for the correction. The same footnote cites 54:17 in the beginning. It it a typo error. Peace.
Edip
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: mmkhan on December 31, 2010, 03:10:04 PM
Looking at the Holy Quran in isolation from the Hadith, it becomes clear that no such prohibition against future prophethood within Islam exists.  When one reads the Holy Quran 33:40 in full, it becomes difficult to interpret it as anything other than a prediction of future prophets, in this case, Muslim prophets.  In 33:40, the Holy Quran answers the charge that the Holy Prophet "is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Khatam-an-Nabiyeen ...".  The notion of being Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is, by virtue of the word "but", meant to be an answer to the lack of adult male paternity with something better.  If the meaning of Khatam-an-Nabiyeen is that the Holy Prophet is literally the last prophet, then the entirety of the verse does not make sense.  The term Khatam-an-Nabiyeen must be a prediction of another type of paternity, in this case, spiritual paternity, namely, of prophets (nabiyeen).  In other words, this verse is predictive of future prophets who will be legitimate by virtue of their following the Holy Prophet and thus bearing his seal (khatam).  This interpretation is further supported by 108:3 -- who is the issue (abtar) that the Holy Quran predicts for the Holy Prophet?  If the Holy Prophet is to have abtar, it must be in the form of Muslim prophets as noted by 33:40.

I don't see BUT as you mentioned in 33:40

The word "Khaatama" in 33:40 is weigh as the word "Khaataba" in 25:63. How will you translate 25:63?


Quote
The blessing of prophethood for the Muslim ummah is guaranteed by the Holy Quran in 4:69.  In this verse, nubuwwat is included as the blessing for those who obey Allah and the Holy Prophet Muhammad along with the blessings of being amongst the siddiqeen (truthful), saliheen (righteous) and the shohada (witnesses/martyrs). 
I did not see the highlighted words above in 4:69

A quick question about 4:69, are you saying that whosoever obey Allah and the messenger they will be with the Prophets [PLURAL], in this world? If so, we will be getting atleast three Prophets in our life time?  :hmm


Quote
Further, the Holy Quran states prophets and messengers are one and the same (72:26-27) and that they can be raised amongst the Banu Adam (People of Adam) at 7:35-36.  As all of humanity is Banu Adam, then this verse must also refer to the Muslim ummah. Lastly, 3:81 refers to a covenant taken from certain prophets on behalf of their people regarding their future acceptance of prophets, and 33:7 states that this covenant was also taken with the Holy Prophet on behalf of his ummah.
Are you really serious ??? I did not even find the above highlighted statement of yours in 72:26-27

Still I did not find "THEY [Prophets and Messengers]" in 7:35-36

"Future acceptance of Prophets" ? Where does it say in 3:81?

BTW, what do you mean by "On behalf of his ummah" in 33:7 ?


I think this is enough, sorry to say but not worth reading further...

But remember one thing brother, ask for Allah's forgiveness, cause

16:116    ولا تقولوا لما تصف ألسنتكم الكذب هذا حلل وهذا حرام لتفتروا على الله الكذب إن الذين يفترون على الله الكذب لا يفلحون

16:116    And do not say, as to what your tongues falsely describe: This is lawful, and that is forbidden; that you seek to invent lies on Allah. Those who invent lies on Allah will not succeed.


May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.  :pr
Mohammed M. Khan
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: loxbox13 on December 31, 2010, 03:43:56 PM
Assalamu Alaikum.
Representing the messenger's duty as only "delivering a book or teaching a previous book" does not represent the total picture of the Quran's ayats on this particular issue.

In some ayats, you are right, Allah told Muhammad (SM) to deliver the message only {{3:20>>but if they turn away, then you are only to deliver}}, or {{5:99>>The only duty of the messenger is to deliver}}

but
there are some ayats which clearly indicates the necessity of an explanation of the ayats mentioned just above. Some of them are:
1-a) 24:54
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say:    24:54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.
_____

Please, listen, I am not talking now about {{If you obey him, you will be guided}}.

I am talking about the last portion of the ayat, The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

His duty will not be accomplished only by delivering the message like a BIRD THAT CAN TALK, he also has to make the message clear.

1-b) Another ayat that brings the issue in the same manner:
16:44 With clear signs (بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ) and Books (وَالزُّبُرِ) (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (الذِّكْرَ)(the Quran), that you may explain clearly (لِتُبَيِّنَ) to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

1-c) Let us discuss a portion of an end note, in this context, provided in Quran: A Reformist Translation by Edip-Layth.
_____________________________________________________________________
Edip-Layth - End Note 7 (16:44)
The Arabic word BaYaNa means (1) explain an ambiguous message; or (2) declare a
hidden message. This multiple-meaning verse is one of the most abused verses by
the followers of hadith hearsay. They choose the first meaning. Their rendering,
however, contradicts many verses of the Quran: the Quran is explained not by
Muhammad, but by its author, God Himself (75:19). Thus it is described as a
"clarified/explained book" (5:15; 12:1; 26:195; 44:6), and we are reminded over and
over that it is "easy to understand" (54:17,22,32,40). Thus, the second alternative
 is the intended meaning, since the Quran was received by Muhammad in a private
session called revelation, and his job was to deliver and declare the message he
received. God orders Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to
him personally. Indeed, this is the whole mission of the messengers (16:35).
Thus, the word "litubayyena" of 16:44 is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells
 us that the people who received the revelation should "proclaim the scripture to the
people, and never conceal it." See 2:159,160; 3:187 and 16:64. For a comparative
discussion on verse 16:44, see the Sample Comparisons section in the Introduction.
The Quran is simple to understand (54:11). _____________________________________________________________________

1-c-i) This explanation is very nice to read.
But I have got another verse,
16:82, where, the translation given by Edip-Layth is:

16:82 So if they turn away, then you are only required to deliver clearly.

 :confused: :confused: :confused:

And another ayath translated by Edip-Layth,
[5:92 Obey God and obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away then know that the duty of the messenger is clear deliverance.]

 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

And another ayath (what I already have provided),
24:54
Translated by Edip-Layth
Say:    24:54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the messenger." But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. If you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


1-c-ii) It seems that Quran: A Reformist Translation itself has used the first meaning [(1) explain an ambiguous message] without sensing any contradiction with any other verses of Quran.

1-c-iii) Actually, there is no contradiction in using the first meaning of the Arabic word BaYaNa.
Let me explain.

>> About contradiction with 75:19 (Then it is for Us to clarify it), and "clarified/explained book" (5:15; 12:1; 26:195; 44:6), easy to understand (54:17,22,32,40)

This ayats mean that Allah has explained the Quran by demonstrating the whole quran in the real life of a human, who is just like us. So, when this "human" is doing something in front of the people as to complying with the "WAHY" of Allah [See 7:203>>Say, "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. These are enlightenments from your Lord, a guide and a mercy to a people who acknowledge."], this becomes a "making clear" thing for those people. In this way, Allah has cleared and explained everything of Quran, and Muhammad (SM) has made clear, ofcourse with the continuous guidance of Allah.

So both are correct. Allah has explained the ayats by implementing the ayats in the real life of a human, who is like us.. And Muhammad (sm) has explained the ayats by complying with the WAHY under continuous guidance of Allah.

>> About contradiction with the ayath 54:11

In the End Note 7 (16:44) by Edip-Lath regarding the Ayath 16:44, Edip-Layth says that {{The Quran is simple to understand (54:11)}}
But what does 54:11 say? 54:11 So We opened the gates of the sky with pouring water. [Edip-Layth]

I don't know what he meant by that.

The duty of the messenger except to deliver
it can be explained also as the duty is only to deliver, meaning don't force them to accept,  or no tyrany, except with tongue
Again, the people of the prophet understood the language of the quran, word per word, it was their language, and their style in speach,  i don't see why would the prophet explain the meaning of words to them
u understood this text i'm posting for u ,  why would u need me to explain to you what i am writing, for you right now ? 
if we take the hadiths as the words of the prophet,  u can see clearly that the words in hadiths has nothing to do wth the language of the quran, meaning the hadiths weren't the prophet's speach,  the language of the prophet is the language of the quran.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: almarh0m on December 31, 2010, 07:06:50 PM
Peace be with you

As far as I know the word "Khatam" from the root Kha-Ta-Miim occurs 8 times within The Qur'an . Namely : 2:7 , 6:46 , 33:40 , 36:65 , 42:24 ,45:23 , 83:25 and 83:26 . If we were to translate every Khatam to mean as end , last or akhir , then the translations of the verses containing the word khatam , in the cited verses above would be even more nonsensical.

I am certain that to understand any verses of the Qur'an in general as well a specific verse such as 33:40 , one has to off load as much as possible the indoctrination of the ignorant past by the parasite imam , mullah et all . as for 33:40 , try and translate every word in the verse , and discard your prior brainwashed meaning of the verse and you will arrive at the truth .

Our entrenched belief that Muhammad is a proper name , and cannot be other than that , prevent most people from grasping the meaning of 33:40 specifically , and other verses where words , are left untranslated . I know that context determines the meaning of words within a sentence , and translating the same words consistently is crucial . Hope this helps .

Peace

almarh0m

Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: loxbox13 on December 31, 2010, 07:28:41 PM
Peace be with you

As far as I know the word "Khatam" from the root Kha-Ta-Miim occurs 8 times within The Qur'an . Namely : 2:7 , 6:46 , 33:40 , 36:65 , 42:24 ,45:23 , 83:25 and 83:26 . If we were to translate every Khatam to mean as end , last or akhir , then the translations of of the verses containing the word khatam , in the cited verses above would be even more nonsensical.

I am certain that to understand any verses of the Qur'an in general as well a specific verse such as 33:40 , one has to off load as much as possible the indoctrination of the ignorant past by the parasite imam , mullah et all . as for 33:40 , try and translate every word in the verse , and discard your prior brainwashed meaning of the verse and you will arrive at the truth .

Our entrenched belief that Muhammad is a proper name , and cannot be other than that , prevent most people from grasping the meaning of 33:40 specifically , and other verses where words , are left untranslated . I know that context determines the meaning of words within a sentence , and translating the same words consistently is crucial . Hope this helps .

Peace

almarh0m



checked the verses u posted, they all seem to mean colse/seal/end/block  to me, some of them are verbes in futur , nakhtimou,  some of them are verbs in past,  khatama ,  but it's all about closing
like nakhtimou ala afwahihoum,   we close/seal their mouths so they cannot talk
that's how it sounds to me
and even if muhammed isn't a name of a person,  it sounds like the verse is talking about a person, a prophet, to whom is attributed this word, muhammad.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: almarh0m on December 31, 2010, 09:26:39 PM
Peace be with you



checked the verses u posted, they all seem to mean colse/seal/end/block  to me, some of them are verbes in futur , nakhtimou,  some of them are verbs in past,  khatama ,  but it's all about closing
like nakhtimou ala afwahihoum,   we close/seal their mouths so they cannot talk
that's how it sounds to me
and even if muhammed isn't a name of a person,  it sounds like the verse is talking about a person, a prophet, to whom is attributed this word, muhammad.



Please look up the root of "Kha-Ta-Mim" and the listed meanings . If you translate and understand what is muhammad , then you will know that it is a definition of Khatam . Seal , Mark , and Characteristics of every prophet is muhammad . There is no mystery to 33:40 for all those who are seeking the truth from Allah . Every prophet/messenger/warner is a muhammad .


Peace

almarh0m
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: antibhondo on December 31, 2010, 09:29:49 PM
The duty of the messenger except to deliver
it can be explained also as the duty is only to deliver, meaning don't force them to accept,  or no tyrany, except with tongue
Again, the people of the prophet understood the language of the quran, word per word, it was their language, and their style in speach,  i don't see why would the prophet explain the meaning of words to them
u understood this text i'm posting for u ,  why would u need me to explain to you what i am writing, for you right now ? 
if we take the hadiths as the words of the prophet,  u can see clearly that the words in hadiths has nothing to do wth the language of the quran, meaning the hadiths weren't the prophet's speach,  the language of the prophet is the language of the quran.

Assalamu Alaikum.
It was a very interesting comment. Thank you.
Hadiths represents the practical life of Muhammad (sm) consisting of his sayings and his deeds. All these deeds and sayings were controlled by the WAHY. Allah told us to obey/follow Muhammad (sm). If you are confirm that these hadiths honestly represent our Muhammad (sm), then these will be incumbent upon you. If, somehow you are not sure of that, please keep them aside for the time being. You are right, you are nohow commanded to follow Bukhari or Muslim or the like.

I belive in the transmission source of Al-QURAN. Whoever transmitted the QURAN to other person knew how important is how Mohammad (SM) prayed. If he was honest in transmitting Quran, he must have honestly transmitted the method of Salat also. And the first generation transmitted Quran and what they learnt from Muhammad (sm) to the next generation as a daily practice as commanded by the Quran. It, then, must be a part of their culture. You can understand by comparing the views of Shias and Sunnis about Salat. They disagree in so many points. But they do not disagree in the basic points of traditional Salat. Somebody in this forum called it visual transmission. I liked the term.

If I believe in the source, I must believe both Al-Quran, and the method of Salat.
(You know, Al-Quran could have been manipulated. Who told you it was not? I can tell you that somebody has changed some ayats (mention any) and then he has injected the ayats that say that Allah's ayats cannot be changed, or Allah will preserve this Ayats.)
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: loxbox13 on January 01, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
Peace be with you




Please look up the root of "Kha-Ta-Mim" and the listed meanings . If you translate and understand what is muhammad , then you will know that it is a definition of Khatam . Seal , Mark , and Characteristics of every prophet is muhammad . There is no mystery to 33:40 for all those who are seeking the truth from Allah . Every prophet/messenger/warner is a muhammad .


Peace

almarh0m
sounds weird to me,  so , moses is muhammad, and abraham is muhammad and noah is muhammad  ,  who is the one who brought the quran ?  there are 4 times the word muhamad is mentioned, and they all related to the quran, explain more your view, because for now you are using only one aya by itself. i can't see it as an attribute and not a name, just like surah muhammad.
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: mmkhan on January 01, 2011, 02:11:16 AM
Salaam,

sounds weird to me,  so , moses is muhammad, and abraham is muhammad and noah is muhammad  ,  who is the one who brought the quran ?  there are 4 times the word muhamad is mentioned, and they all related to the quran, explain more your view, because for now you are using only one aya by itself. i can't see it as an attribute and not a name, just like surah muhammad.

That means no Prophet has a son  ??? as per 33:40? How about Ibrahim (AS), Zacharia (AS)? They also don't have son?

And also every Prophet is AlRasool  ??? as per 33:40?


May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.  :pr
Mohammed M. Khan
Title: Re: Meaning of Khatam an Nabiyeen
Post by: abdalquran on January 01, 2011, 02:14:29 AM
Quran isn't a book of history or it would be a contradiction with 83/13. Therefore it is possible to have a Muhammad now. Muhammad is a character trait which seals the Prophets. So if we have a nabiy, he would display the personality of 'Muhammad' (invoking hamd or a deep positive feeling of relief and gratitude). There are 3 other ayat which shows how Muhammad is a characteristic:

1. 3/144 - if the personality which invokes this feeling dies off, then the believers would fall into disarray.

2. 47/4 - this personality is linked to what is descended and al-haqq. Al-haqq is what is reactive against bathil (13/17 and 21/18 and 17/81). So he actually invokes transformation

3. 48/29 - this personality invokes the enactment of tawrat and injeel which effectively makes the believers uppermost.

It is very interesting to note which suras Muhammad appears in. The themes of the suras tell us much.