- 62 -
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxMxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PHYSICAL FACT NUMBER (16) (Cont'd)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Second word of the opening statement, i. e., the word
"Allah = God الله“is mentioned in Quran 2,698
times, and this number is a multiple of 19
....................................
2,698 = 19 x 142
List of Chapters & Verses containing word “Allah”
NO. CHAPTER VERSE
1 ..............1 1
2 ..............1 2
...
2576 .......63 7
2577 .......63 7
2578 .......63 7 <------- Error; there are only 2 in verse 63:7
...
Moderator: suggest this be made a sticky until clarified.
It's a major premise for "their" count and falsely removing verses from Quran.
thanks
Peace
The sticky one can not be missed :) but wonder EVEN "IF" your claim be correct which is not possible for me and anther 7 billions to check regarding Arabic knowldge what would be your claim for flaw in another 45 cases (http://www.submission.org/tampering.html) +?
I wonder if you can touch it as I have witnessed on this screen for last 10 years that all your claim as Shai or Sunni or covered up with God Alone (Not Quran Alone) is refering only to this case and do not touch those cases.
But remember that whole world can not understand this claim to keep your idol as your parent did. (http://y19.net/parents.html)
But they can see it easily just by number here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ace4i1osfU&feature=channel_page) and now here (http://creatorsignature.com/ladertoheaven.htm). :)
case closed 74:31 :)
peace
Suggest links to the data sets in another thread; this pertains to the count of Allah.Peace ;
Peace
Peace ;
Your claim is directly related for reasons removing 9:128-129 and all those links are file clearly rejecting 128-129
I like to see you as truthful and inest person guide me and tohers to all cases and show all falws other way Cas closed and you can stick all your life on top of this forum with your claim which is like a camel passing the needle hole. Juat be hones remove your prjeduices and hate toward a man that put his life for us today to have FRee-Minds and etc claiming being monothiest with noo proof.
I would like to see a complete list of flaws your search and examination for links posted for ou and your friends.
If you do not ahv such thing then you are wasting time as many are not intersted in this topic as is parotting samr thin over and over.
Let us read Quran Alone not fabrications creating another idol. :)
Peace
Well, this explains why Khalifa had the same count of "Allah" before he eliminated 9:129 in his previous works. I don't get how no one caught this before though...perhaps someone came up with a passable explanation?
For benefit of others here is a simpler code not requiring Google digits to verify which includes 9:128-129 with count of Allah 2,698 (19 x 2 x 71)...71 see above. lol
Uses 3 prime number keys not only 1 therefore much stronger code.
Go-ahead, pop into excel try and break it; move, delete verses, chapters, whatever...
Everyone can see that verses were moved, deleted and added in every chapter and this stupid code allowed it. In fact, there is an INFINITE number of combinations that would allow verses to be moved, deleted and added in every chapter and this stupid code would allow it.Peace Ayman (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597242.msg180640#msg180640) :)74:31
This so-called code has already been debunked here:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597165.msg179361#msg179361
Everyone can see that verses were moved, deleted and added in every chapter and this stupid code allowed it. In fact, there is an INFINITE number of combinations that would allow verses to be moved, deleted and added in every chapter and this stupid code would allow it.
Just take out 100 verses from Chapter 9 and add them to any other even chapter such as Chapter 11. So now Chapter 9 has 29 verses while Chapter 11 has 223 new verses and your Checksum is EXACTLY the same.
Here, I will use your table below:
Surah #Verses S+V 57 Even 57 Odd
1............7............8............8...........
2..........286..........288..........288...........
3..........200..........203.....................203
4..........176..........180..........180...........
5..........120..........125.....................125
6..........165..........171.....................171
7..........206..........213.....................213
8...........75...........83......................83
9..........29..........38..........38...........
10.........109..........119.....................119
11.........223..........234..........234...........
You shouldn't waste all the good work you do in exposing Code 19 by hypocritically promoting your own Code 19.
This so-called code has already been debunked here:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597165.msg179361#msg179361
You should have spent 10 min from the past 10 years to verify this; see other threads too.Peace
Fact is God has caused some of you to loose your minds in an ocean of digits...
Salam Everybody,
I would like to share a very interesting phenomen, which no body is giving attention to. Its the structure of the verses of the Quran and how it is balanced using the Even and the Odd
DefinitionsThe phenomenons
- 1: even and odd
even number: a number, which is divisible by 2
odd number: a number, which is not divisible by 2- 2: homogenous and heterogenous
We define a Sura to be homogeneous, if the number of the sura is even and the number of verses in it is also even, or if the number of the sura is odd and the number of verses in it is also odd.
Otherwise the sura is heterogenous- 3: Suras of the Quran
There are 114 Suras in the Quran. The sum of numbers from 1-114 = 6555- 4: numbered verses in the Quran
There are 6234 numbered verses in the Quran
- There are 60 Suras in the Quran, which have even number of verses.
These are divided into
- 30 even sura numbers
- 30 odd sura numbers
- There are 54 Suras in the Quran, which have odd number of verses.
These are divided into
- 27 even sura numbers
- 27 odd sura numbers
- There are 57 homogenous Suras and 57 heterogenous Suras in the Quran
- The sum of all Sura numbers and the numbers of numbered verses in these suras in the homogenous section is: 6234 (compare with definition #4)
- The sum of all Sura numbers and the numbers of numbered verses in these suras in the heterogenous section is: 6555 (compare with definition #3)
- The number of even Suras in the homogenous section = 30 = The number of odd Suras in the heterogenous section
- The number of odd Suras in the homogenous section = 27 = The number of even Suras in the heterogenous section
- The sum of Sura numbers in the homogenous section = 3303 = The sum of the numbered verses of the heterogenous section
- If we examine the two halves of the Quran (Suras 1-57 and Suras 58-114) we find:
- The number of homogenous Suras in the first half = 29 = The number of heterogenous Suras in the second half
- The number of homogenous Suras in the second half = 28 = The number of heterogenous Suras in the first half
- The sum of the numbered verses in the first 19th chapter is 2346 and the sum of numbered verses of the Quran is 6234, and the 6234 is the 19th permutation of 2346
And today I've observed something amazing:
If we examine the numbered verses of the Quran:
7 286 200 176 120 165 206 75 127 109 123 111 43 52 99 128 111 110 98 135 112 78 118 64 77 227 93 88 69 60 34 30 73 54 45 83 182 88 75 85 54 53 89 59 37 35 38 29 18 45 60 49 62 55 78 96 29 22 24 13 14 11 11 18 12 12 30 52 52 44 28 28 20 56 40 31 50 40 46 42 29 19 36 25 22 17 19 26 30 20 15 21 11 8 8 19 5 8 8 11 11 8 3 9 5 4 7 3 6 3 5 4 5 6
And for each number we see if the number following it is higher or lower and write H for higher and L for lower we will get the following string:
HLLLHHLHLHLLHHHLLLHLLHLHHLLLLLLHLLHHLLHLLHLLLHLLHHLHLHHLLHLHL-HL-HH-LL-LHLLHLHLLLHLLLHHHLLHLL-HLH-H-LLHLLHLHLHLHH
The - means: the number of verses wasn't increased nor decreased
We have in this string 61 L's and 45 H's (difference 16)
But if we see how many times it was switched from high to low (represented as HL or H-L) we'll find: 32 switches
and if we see how many times it was switched from low to high (represented as LH or L-H) we'll find also: 32 switches.
One can not escape the relation between 32 and 16
Now to imagine the complexity of this structure, here is a task for people, who are interested in mathematics and/or programming, what we can just imagine solving it using arrays of integers.
? Find a prime number P
? Find N numbers, where each number has an index from 1-N and N is a multiple of P
? An index is homogeneous if the index is even and the number assigned to it is even, or if the index is odd and the number assigned to it is odd, otherwise its heterogeneous: the number of homogeneous indices must be equal to heterogenic indices
? The even numbers among these N numbers should have an equal number of odd indices and even indices
? The odd numbers among these N numbers should have an equal number of odd indices and even indices
? The sum of indices from 1-N should be equal to the sum of all indices and numbers in the homogeneous or heterogeneous section
? The sum of numbers from 1-N should be equal to the sum of all indices and numbers in the homogeneous or heterogeneous section
? Even indices in the homogeneous section must be equal to odd indices in the heterogeneous section
? Odd indices in the homogeneous section must be equal to even indices in the heterogeneous section
? The sum of indices in the homogeneous section must be equal to the sum of numbers in the heterogeneous section
? The number of homogeneous indices in the first half of indices must be equal to the number of heterogeneous indices in the second half of indices
? The number of homogeneous indices in the second half of indices must be equal to the number of heterogeneous indices in the first half of indices
? The sum of the N numbers should be the P-th permutation of the sum of the number assigned to the first P indices
? For each number from the N numbers write the number
followed by the numbers from 1 to this number. All numbers placed next to each other must be divisible by P
? For each number from the N numbers write the sum of numbers from 1 to this number followed by the numbers from 1 to this number. All numbers placed next to each other must be divisible by P
The 114 numbers given on this thread fulfill the requirements of this task for P=19
Best regards,
Mohamed
P.S. almost all information are taken from http://www.mucizeler.com/19lar/ciftveteksayi.htm (turkish language, however I don't speak turkish :P)
Not correct; in prior post the column Ch * V is missing (209029 prime) prevents this from occurring...
9 x 29 = 261 .........................................ch * v
11 x 223 = 2453.....................................ch * v
Totals: ................................................209229 not prime!
Not my code (includes all verses) rather an observation with 19 being the alluring one as a test, an ayat/sign one of many in Quran.
It doesn't look to me like the code is getting "debunked" in that thread at all.
Come on guys, let's stick to the topic. This is about the number of "Allah" in the Qur'an - not about the existance of 19 code. This is an important topic. It doesn't matter what you think about the Qur'an, or how you intepret it. It's about "irrefutable facts". Let's get the number of occurences right and make our own assumptions based on that in a different thread, shall we?
Peace Fuhrer,Peace Ayman (http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597242.msg180640#msg180640) :)74:31
What else is there to argue? 19ers count THREE "allah" in 63:7 when there is clearly only TWO and even Bahman can't argue against that. Their counts of "bism", "rahman", and "rahim" are equally tampered with to get the desired result of a 19 divisible. The only Code 19 pattern anyone with a grain of common sense should see is a pattern of deception. So there is really nothing more to argue in defense of Code 19 except for those who are so obssessed and attracted to the "fitna"/temptation of 19 that they are beyond help.
Peace,
Ayman
What else is there to argue? 19ers count THREE "allah" in 63:7 when there is clearly only TWO and even Bahman can't argue against that.
Their counts of "bism", "rahman", and "rahim" are equally tampered with to get the desired result of a 19 divisible. The only Code 19 pattern anyone with a grain of common sense should see is a pattern of deception.
So there is really nothing more to argue in defense of Code 19 except for those who are so obssessed and attracted to the "fitna"/temptation of 19 that they are beyond help.
Please stop misleading people, telling them that the code 19 concept is "ONLY" a fitna; this is not what the scripture says, and you and I both know that the word "only" is not used in that passage at all...
Is that right??!!
وما جعلنا أصحب النار إلا ملئكة وما جعلنا عدتهم إلا فتنة للذين كفروا
If the word "only" is not present in the passage, then please tell us what the word "إلا" means.
:rotfl: C'mon, brother. I know that you know better than this. This was a mistake made in Rashad's count of the word "allah", but it doesn't take away the count of the word. The original count was the mistaken one, not the revised one. Including the count of 9:129, there are 2699 counts of the word "allah", and therefore, when he removed that allegedly false verse, there were 2698 counts remaining... But I'm sure you probably already knew this, and if you don't believe me, count them yourself... ::) Everyone who's read Rashad Khalifa's translation of the qur'an knows that he specifically numbers each count of the word "allah" (or "GOD"), and he also does this on his computer program, so each individual can count the words themselves. This is already well-known by everyone who's even looked at his translation of the scriptures. That's why I didn't even bother wasting my time with this topic. The truth is too easy to recognize, and if Holiday was actually searching for the truth, he would've known this right away...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxMxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PHYSICAL FACT NUMBER (16) (Cont'd)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Second word of the opening statement, i. e., the word
"Allah = God الله“is mentioned in Quran 2,698
times, and this number is a multiple of 19
....................................
2,698 = 19 x 142
List of Chapters & Verses containing word “Allah”
NO. CHAPTER VERSE
2576 .......63 7
2577 .......63 7
2578 .......63 7 <------- Error; there are only 2 in verse 63:7
- 63 -
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PHYSICAL FACT NUMBER (16) (Cont'd)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxXXXXXXX
List of Chapters & Verses containing the word "Allah"
2697
2698 <---- End of count
THEREFORE, THE TOTRL FREQUENCY OF OCCURRENCE OF THE WORD
'ALLAH' THROUGHOUT THE QURAN 2698 = << 19 >> X 142.
Yes, that is right... The word "إلا" means "to", not "only"... ::)
You are confusing the Arabic proposition "الى" (which means "to") with the Arabic exceptional proposition "إلا" (which means "except"/"only"). This is basic knowledge.
Instead of wasting your time defending Code 19 which is as indefensible as Hadiths, you should spend more time trying to understand what 74:31 is really saying, which is clearly different from what you desire it to say.
Peace Ayman,
Basic knowledge? In what school? ::) Both of those are Arabic prepositions, and both of them mean "to" (one alludes more to the concept of "in order to"). Neither of them mean "only".
The word "only" looks like this: فقط
Can you please give an Arabic sentence where إلا /illa means to?
Aso, can you please translate/explain the verse in question with the preposition إلا meaning "to"?
Can you please give an Arabic sentence where إلا /illa means to?Peace samia
Aso, can you please translate/explain the verse in question with the preposition إلا meaning "to"?
Can you please give an Arabic sentence where إلا /illa means to?
Aso, can you please translate/explain the verse in question with the preposition إلا meaning "to"?
Very good questions Samia, I was going to ask Ahmed the same. I can't wait for his reply.
This isn't the point. The individual word means "to". It refers to "but" (or "except") depending on the context of the sentence...
74:31 And We did not make the fire's owners (guards) except/but angels, and We did not make their number/count except/but (as) a test to those who disbelieved...
Does not change the meaning or that the count of Allah in Quran = 2706
Show me where it means "only"... And I can't wait for your reply... ::)
Quran Word Search
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm
Parameter: لله
Search Type: Exact String
The number of text-occurrences: 2820
2820 - 112 chapter titles not counted = 2708
2708 – 2698 = 10 not counted; these were all EXCLUDED from the count...
Okay, I didn't even notice this post before... This is still wrong, Holiday. You can't count the occurrances of the word "allahuma" and "allahukum" because they don't refer to Allah as a named being. It literally means "our god" and "your god", making the word "(a)llah" a common noun, not a proper noun like all the other occurrances.
The only occurances where your posts are correct are:
(1) There are 2 counts of "Allah" in 9:15, and only 1 was counted
(2) There are 2 counts of "Allah" in 40:74, and only 1 was counted
(3) 77:31 and 92:12 are not counted, and neither of them contain the word "Allah"
So, this would give a count of the word "Allah" occurring 2700 times, based on this research, without removing 9:129. However, you have to remove one count from 63:7 (since he added an extra one there), which would drop the count to 2699, which is the original count we started with. Therefore, if you remove 9:129, you'd STILL have 2698 counts of the word "Allah", which is STILL a multiple of 19... ::)
Ahmad - 1, Holiday - 0... :laugh:
NO. CHAPTER VERSE
2574 .......63 5
2575 .......63 6 <------- Error; there are 2 in verse 63:6 not 1
2576 .......63 7
2577 .......63 7
2578 .......63 7 <------- Error; there are 2 in verse 63:7 not 3
NO. CHAPTER VERSE
2574 .......63 5
2575 .......63 6
2576 .......63 7 <------ This should be a "6", not a "7"!
2577 .......63 7
2578 .......63 7
DO YOUR HOMEWORK, BUDDY... ::)
So, once you drop the count of 6:3, which is used as a common noun instead of a proper noun (i.e. "He is the god in the heavens..."),
Holiday, it will be take few times to verify and compare you list, God willing.
H. O.
It's easy -- use search tool...
Quran Word Search
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm
Parameter: لله
Search Type: Exact String
The number of text-occurrences: 2820
2820 - 112 chapter titles not counted (some my say a contradiction) = 2708
77:31 & 92:12 (not applicable) = - 2
اللهم say: "O God..." not included (some my say a contradiction)
3:26, 5:114, 8:32, 10:10 (one occurance), 39:46 = - 5
9:129 = - 1
2708 – 2 – 5 - 1 = 2700
Simple question: which other 2 are excluded besides the above and why?
I noticed you want to drop 6:3 -- are you serious and going to drop all these as well?
I found one of you errors was in verse 6:39. This verse contain 1 times the word "ALLAH" but you count 2 times!
I was just kidding about dropping of 6:3. I wanted to see what your reaction would be... ;D
So, once you drop the count of 6:3, which is used as a common noun instead of a proper noun (i.e. "He is the god in the heavens..."), the total count of "Allah" (including 9:129) still comes out to 2699! Therefore, once he dismissed the count of "Allah" in 9:129, the count was reduced to 2698, which is a multiple of 19...
DO YOUR HOMEWORK, BUDDY... ::)
....
By the way, contrary to what you may think, I appreciate your criticism. It allows me to actually do a more thorough examination of Rashad's works in light of the Qur'an. So, thanks...
OK my mistake that was search program, keep looking...
2820 - 112 chapter titles not counted (a contradiction) = 2708
6:39, 77:31, & 92:12 (not applicable) = - 3
اللهم "O God..." not counted (a contradiction):
3:26, 5:114, 8:32, 10:10 (one occurance), 39:46 = - 5
9:129 not counted = - 1
2708 – 3 – 5 - 1 = 2699
Holiday:
You still has a MISTAKE and i could show it to you, but i consider its a chance for you, may you will repent and ask GOD for guidance!
Will you repent and reform? or will you continue in arrogant & ignorant, God willing we will see, 74:31!
H.O.
This is your chance to repent not mine; you are following an idol...
2820 - 112 chapter titles not counted (a contradiction) = 2708
6:39, 77:31, & 92:12 (not applicable) = - 3
The count of Allah in Quran now stands at 2705 and it is nothing but a trial for you.
74:31 And We did not make the fire's owners (guards) except angels, and We did not make their number/count except (as) a test to those who disbelieved...
If you continue to believe in this false messenger who calls God's verses satanic and you continue to propagate this lie; you'll be looking at 19 angels above you.
Peace
You can't count the occurrances of the word "allahuma" and "allahukum" because they don't refer to Allah as a named being. It literally means "our god" and "your god", making the word "(a)llah" a common noun, not a proper noun like all the other occurrances.
once you drop the count of 6:3, which is used as a common noun instead of a proper noun (i.e. "He is the god in the heavens..."), the total count of "Allah" (including 9:129) still comes out to 2699! Therefore, once he dismissed the count of "Allah" in 9:129, the count was reduced to 2698, which is a multiple of 19...
I was just kidding about dropping of 6:3. I wanted to see what your reaction would be...
Here you say that when “allah” is a common noun, it is not counted.
Here you state the obvious fact that “allah” in 6:3 is also a common noun.
Realizing that now your Code 19 counts would be messed up if 6:3 is excluded; you suddenly change your mind and say that the common noun “allah” in 6:3 is included.
But if by your own admission, common nouns are included then the common nouns “allahuma" and "allahukum” in 3:26, 5:114, 8:32, 10:10, and 39:46 must also be included.
You clearly fell into the temptation/”fitna” of the count of 19 and are caught in your web of contradictions. This and your earlier desperate nonsense about the meaning of “إلا “ demonstrates that you are following in the footsteps of Khalifa and like him disregarding truth for the sake of your obsession with 19. This is exactly what 74:31 predicted.
Glory is to GOD! Everybody on free-mind can now witness how blind and arrogant you are and why you are not able to count the word GOD, simply you are forbidden to count the right number of the word "ALLAH" like many others before you!
This will stay until you will reform, repent and ask GOD for guidance, insha'Allah!
I will no more respons to you posts until you chance you mind.
H. O.
First of all, I was joking about the 6:3 deletion. If you look through Rashad's count, he counts 6:3 as a definate occurrance of the word "Allah", which it is. I wanted to see Holiday's reaction to the claim... On the issue of the word "allah" being used as a common noun, in 6:3 it is not a common noun. Common nouns are in the other occurrances that I mentioned, which specifically say "your god", "our god", and "my god". This is not using "Allah" as a proper noun since, as you know, there's no grammatically correct way to say "my allah" or "your allah". Therefore, these instances are not counted...
Holiday, you are a proven Liar by you own words!!!!!
You say the Word ALLAH occurs in the Quran 2705 times but this is simply a lie!
First of all, I was joking about the 6:3 deletion. If you look through Rashad's count, he counts 6:3 as a definate occurrance of the word "Allah", which it is. I wanted to see Holiday's reaction to the claim... On the issue of the word "allah" being used as a common noun, in 6:3 it is not a common noun. Common nouns are in the other occurrances that I mentioned, which specifically say "your god", "our god", and "my god". This is not using "Allah" as a proper noun since, as you know, there's no grammatically correct way to say "my allah" or "your allah". Therefore, these instances are not counted...
You haven't shown any instances where it means "only". In context, it means but/except, but when I considered the actual meaning of it in a textbook, it said the singular preposition means "to". So, I guess we were both wrong... ::) Anyway, I have no obsession with 19. I just view it as a sign of God and a protection of His message...
There is equally no grammatical or logical way to say "he is Allah in the heavens and the earth". In 6:3 (and in fact in all the great reading), the word "allah is a common noun.
Speak for yourself. We are not both wrong.
"ma ahad ghaltan illa Ahmad"
ما أحد غلطان إلا أحمد
No one is wrong but Ahmad
Only Ahmad is wrong
No one is wrong except Ahmad
All mean the same thing and in none of them "illa" means "to" or can mean "to" and you can't provide a single example where "illa" can mean "to".
How is saying "He is Allah in the heavens and the earth" not grammatically accurate? It's not different than saying "you are Ayman on the Free-Minds forum"... ::) Although the roots of the word "allah" can be based on the common phrase "al-ilah", the title "Allah" can also be used as a proper noun because it is a direct and proper title of God. It's just like when people write "alrahman" as "Al-Rahman" - since it is used as a direct and proper title of God ALONE, it can be used as a proper noun, even though it's roots are common...
:rotfl: Don't be foolish and arrogant, Ayman. In this statement, the word "illa" does not mean only, it means except. You can interpret it to mean "only this, only that", but that's not what the word means, and that's not an accurate translation of it. Please stop promoting falsehoods. The word "illa" does not mean "only"; so your statement on the matter is WRONG! ::)
Saying "you are Ayman on the Free-Minds forum" is like saying "you are Ahmed of the house". It is nonsense that doesn't convey any meaningful info other than a proper name. On the other hand, "you are the moderator on the Free-Minds forum" and "you are the man of the house" convey meaningful info. Nowadays we are used to hearing about user names on internet forums so "you are Ayman on the Free-Minds forum" doesn't sound ungrammatical. However, in reality it is ungrammatical. Thus, before the Internet age saying "you are Ayman on the Free-Minds forum" would have sounded just as ungrammatical as saying "you are Ahmed of the house" and "he is Allah in the heavens and the earth".
Whether you like it or not, no one except you is wrong and only you are wrong. You are demonstrating nothing except that (or you are only demonstrating that) you are ignorant in plain English as much as you are ignorant in Arabic.
You are creating this diversion with all the useless mocking and mindless arguments and pretending to be joking when you are caught to divert attention from the signs of the god indisputably saying that "the count of 19 is nothing except a temptation for the unappreciative", not a sign, not a miracle, not a code.
Playing with numbers.
Besides 5 Allahumma (our God) no count 112 Allah in chapter titles, because no / 19.
The concept of the word "Allah" is the usage of the word as a proper noun. Now, if you use the word "allahuma", this word is not a proper noun, and it can't be written as "our GOD" - this is grammatically incorrect. You can't use a possessive form with the Arabic word "Allah", and you can't say "my Allah" or "our Allah" - it doesn't make sense. Therefore, these occurrances of the words "our god" and "my god" are excluded... Unless you can show me a grammatically correct way to say "my allah"... :laugh:
[12] The Quran contains 6234 numbered verses and 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs). Thus, the total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, 19x334. The false Verses 9:128-129 violate this important criterion of the Quran's code.
Qala AAeesa ibnu maryama Allahumma
5:114 Said Jesus son of Mary: "O Allah..."
TaAllahi in kunna lafee dalalin mubeenin
26:97 By Allah, that truly we were in clear/evident misguidance.
112 verses not counted, although counted in manipulation above to deceive.
The word "allahuma" is in a possessive form, and it means "our god". Yours is a mistranslation.
The words "ta'allah" means "by God", in which the word "Allah" is used as a proper noun. It's not the same as the previous case with "allahuma".
In the modern rendition of the Qur'aan, the Basmallahs are not counted as separate passages. This is clearly illustrated in nearly EVERY Qur'aanic translation. In determining the count of the word "Allah" throughout the Qur'aan, however, Rashad Khalifa counted all of the occurances throughout the entire scripture. This included the numbered and unnumbered passages.
our
adj. The possessive form of we.
Used as a modifier before a noun as in: our house or our God.
God
–noun
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
modern translators:
http://www.openburhan.net/ob.php?sid=5&vid=114
Literal: Jesus, Mary's son said: "Oh God, our Lord
Yusuf Ali: Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord!
Pickthal: Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us!
Arberry: Said Jesus son of Mary, 'O God, our Lord
Shakir: Isa the son of Marium said: O Allah, our Lord!
Check before blindly following and posting:
1:1 was counted
2:1 to 114:1 (112) were NOT counted
112 were counted ONLY when favorable as in case with #of verses:
http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/appendices/appendix24.html
Quote
[12] The Quran contains 6234 numbered verses and 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs). Thus, the total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, 19x334. The false Verses 9:128-129 violate this important criterion of the Quran's code.
That means that, in modern translations, all of the Basmallahs from chapter 2 to chapter 114 (excluding chapter 9, which has no Basmallah at it's opening) are NOT NUMBERED... But hey, don't take my word for it, go look it up... When counting the numbered Basmallahs, Rashad Khalifa did just that - HE COUNTED THE NUMBERED ONES!
But mathematics is not something that follows/runs in pursuit of the traditions. When chapters are 113 why not unnumbered Bismillah be 113 or should be considered as none if we are doing it mathematically.
Because Rashad Khalifa's research was done regarding the present copies of the Qur'aan.
In his investigation, Rashad equated the TOTAL number of Qur'aanic verses. He even explains this as being both the numbered and unnumbered verses (see Number 12). It was the same format he used in determining the counts regarding the initialed and un-initialed verses throughout the scripture... But I guess you didn't consider this obvious idea...
1:1 is COUNTED, while all the others (at the openings) are NOT COUNTED.
NOT NUMBERED...
HE COUNTED THE NUMBERED ONES!
Only a cheat mathematician would accept tradition and that too only when it suits him. Why not to accept that in the original text, which is accepted by all, there is only one Ayah of Bismillah and all its words are also part of another Ayah of Grand Quran.
In printed copies, Bismillah without a number is written for the convenience of ordinary Muslim readers who are not aware of all the facts and nicities. RK knew the facts that Bismillah is NOT the original beggining text of 113 chapters. It was, on the strength of a conjectural tradition that people were told to read Bismillah in the beginning and not to read it on chapter 9. A mathematician follows the facts, not traditions and understandings of ordinary people. Only a cheat mathematician would accept tradition and that too only when it suits him. Why not to accept that in the original text, which is accepted by all, there is only one Ayah of Bismillah and all its words are also part of another Ayah of Grand Quran.
Please tell me you're joking, dude... :-\ The Qur'aan doesn't say anywhere that we must read or recite "bismallah alrahman alraheem" before each chapter. This is your own fabrication... In the oldest copies of the Qur'aan, the Basmallah occurs at the onset of 113 chapters (excluding chapter 9), which is why some scholars have considered the Reading as only having 113 chapters, not 114. Also, the first Basmallah (1:1) is always numbered, because it's considered the essence of the scripture, while the other ones (except for in chapter 27) are not numbered due to their being at the onset of the chapters. And, in all of them, the Basmallah at the onset of chapter 9 is "missing". This is accepted by all. Who do you know who's said that there is only one Basmallah in the entire Qur'aan?! This is absurd, and you're trying to fabricate ridiculous reasoning to prove your outrageous view...
It is already well-established that the Qur'aan has 114 chapters, and it has 112 unnumbered Basmallahs (not counting the one in 1:1 and in chapter 9) and 2 numbered ones (in 1:1 and 27:30). This is not even disputable... If you believe it is, then please post a link or something where we can all verify your conclusion.
Peace,
Ahmad
http://www.mostmerciful.com/miracle-or-deceit.htmpeace
.........
Akbarally Meherally
Copy/paste do a search for exactly الله which Word found 2555 items matching this criteria.
These are inapplicable:
62:11 اللهو
77:31 اللهب
8:32 اللهم allahumma refers to unbelievers calling out their god...
8:31-32
And when Our verses are recited on them, they said: "We had heard, and if want we would have said equal (to) that, that that (is) except the beginners' baseless stories."
And when they said: "our god (allahumma) if that was it, the truth from at you, so rain on us stones from the sky or bring to us with a painful torture."
Total Allah in Qur'an is 2552 = 88 x 29!
This assumption too is incorrect.
الله[In genitive case ending; Kasra at end]=829
الله [Nominative case-With Dhumma at end]=973
الله [Accusative case ending-Fatha at end]=591
Total=2393
بالله اللهم تالله فالله
6 + 9 + 5 + 140 = 160
2393 + 160 = 2553 less the one in 8:32 اللهم allahumma unbelievers calling out their god = 2552
the one in 8:32 اللهم allahumma unbelievers calling out their god
Since earlier only Allah was quoted, therefore, I did not include those with prefix and suffixe.
If these are taken then why Allah with Prefixed Preposition لِ not included?
While dealing with digits, fudging becomes evident.
God in the Quran occurs 2698 times. What you are showing means nothing. The number of times the word God occurs in that verse is 2 and nobody disputes that.
The proof that 9:128-129 do not belong is not limited to the word God. Almost every aspect of those 2 verses are problematic, in addition to the fact that they were already historically suspect to begin with.
If you are attempting to question Rashads count, I am happy that he includes an ongoing tally at the bottom of each page of the English version for our convenience. The total is 2698.
Peace, what you stated is false since the word God in Arabic occurs 2704 times.
Exclude 5 allahuma & 112 chapter titles to “fix” statistically insignificant multiple.
3:26 قل say اللهم allahuma/the God ours…
5:114 قال said عيسى Isa/Jesus ابن son مريم Maryam/Mary اللهم allahuma/the God ours…
8:32 واذ and when قالوا said they اللهم allahuma/the God ours…
10:10 دعواهم invocation theirs فيها therein سبحانك glory to you اللهم allahuma/the God ours...
39:46 قل say اللهم allahuma/the God ours...
Read article by brother Ayman on the word: http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part1.pdf
None of those verses are God with a capital G. They are just saying "Our god", as in the idol. Lower case god.
Even free-minds has translated this correctly: 39:46 Say: "Our god, Initiator of the heavens and the Earth, Knower of the unseen and the seen, You will judge between Your servants regarding what they disputed in."
So that eliminates those 5 verses, and yes verse 0s are not included in the God count. So 112 unnumbered verses are also not included in this count.
Peace,
Of course 112 verses, verse "0" is excluded except when needed to "fix" a multiple as in the case of total verses or when counting initials, etc. In the Arabic there is no capitalization and allah means “the god” in English, not name of an Arab god and allahuma translates correctly as "the god ours" (our god). In all verses it’s same as in first or any verse.
1:1 بسم in name الله the god الرحمن the powerful الرحيم the merciful
6:3 وهو and he الله the god في in السماوات the heavens وفي and in الارض the earth
3:26 قل say اللهم the god ours مالك owner الملك the kingship ...
5:114 قال said عيسى Isa/Jesus ابن son مريم Maryam/Mary اللهم the god ours ربنا lord ours ...
8:32 واذ and when قالوا said they اللهم the god ours ...
10:10 دعواهم invocation theirs فيها therein سبحانك glory to you اللهم the god ours ...
39:46 قل say اللهم the god ours فاطر originator السماوات the heavens والارض and the earth ...
I understand there is no capital in arabic. That wasn't my point. You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Please read carefully. Those ayas are not talking about ALLAH, they are talking about ILAH, which MEANS "god" not God.
Looks can be deceiving, however upon closer examination, it isn't using the word God.
[10:10] Their prayer therein is: "Be You glorified, our god," their greeting therein is, "Peace," and their ultimate prayer is: "Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe."
[5:114] Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "Our god, our Lord, send down to us a feast from the sky. Let it bring plenty for each and every one of us, and a sign from You. Provide for us; You are the best Provider."
This is NOT the word allah, as it GOD, nor does it mean it in the verse.
This is god, as in "My god, My god, why have you forsaken me?"
Peace,
In Arabic these are all same as الله-م the god ours referring to the creator (i.e. the god)...
2141 الله the god
240 والله and the god
139 بالله with the god
130 لله to god
27 ولله and to god
8 تالله by the god
6 فلله so god
6 فالله so the god
5 اللهم the god ours
1 وتالله and by the god
1 ابالله surely with the god
2704 total
Again, suggest reading the article posted earlier and part 2 as well:
http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part1.pdf
http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
You are still confused. Yes it is referring to GOD, but the word used is "god". No god but God.
You don't seem to understand. I can't help you sorry.
I can say many things and refer to God.
My lord, my god, my savior.
Peace, it’s you who is confused obsessed with numerology; obvious by what you write.
In English there are expressions as:
By God!
Our God!
In Arabic there is no capitalization and there are similar expressions:
8 occurrences ت-الله By God!
26:97 By God! Indeed we are surely in misguidance clear.”
5 occurrences الله-م Our God!
5:114 said Jesus son of Mary – “Our God! Our Lord...”
Thus numerologists exclude/include letters, words, verses, play with capitalization, etc., to “fix” multiples to impress extremely naive, devoid of simple logic and basic math concepts.
OK i suggest you study the grammer of english more before you claim that there is such as thing as "Our God".
"God" here is "The God" a being like a name, while "god" is a description and just means deity in general.
I suggest you study the Arabic. Not like a name "always" a description or deity in general i.e. الله the god
6:3 وهو and he الله the god في in السماوات the heavens وفي and in الارض the earth
READ THE ARTICLES:
http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part1.pdf
http://www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part2.pdf
This whole counting things and looking for multiples is absurd nonsense.
Peace be upon you.
Even in arabic, you cannot say "Our God". ALLAH means "THE GOD".
In ANY language you cannot say "Our THE GOD" FINISHED!
Peace,
There's only one allah in the Quran, that's enough for me
Oh really?Yes really
Last post to put this to rest...
Quran Word Search
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm
Parameter: لله
Search Type: Exact String
The number of text-occurrences: 2820
2820 - 112 chapter titles not counted = 2708
2708 – 2698 = 10 not counted; these were all EXCLUDED from the count...
http://www.submission.org/miracle/pdf/vis3.pdf
3:26 قل اللهم مالك الملك تؤتي الملك من تشاء وتنزع الملك ممن تشاء وتعز من تشاء وتذل من تشاء بيدك الخير انك على كل شئ قدير
5:114 قال عيسى ابن مريم اللهم ربنا انزل علينا مائدة من السماء تكون لنا عيدا لاولنا واخرنا واية منك وارزقنا وانت خير الرازقين
8:32 واذ قالوا اللهم ان كان هذا هو الحق من عندك فامطر علينا حجارة من السماء اوائتنا بعذاب اليم
Say: “O God...
Only 1 was counted...
9:15 ويذهب غيظ قلوبهم ويتوب الله على من يشاء والله عليم حكيم
And God was not to misguide (a) nation after when He guided them, until He clarifies/explains to them what they fear and obey, that God was/is with every thing knowledgeable.
9:129 فان تولوا فقل حسبي الله لااله الا هو عليه توكلت وهو رب العرش العظيم
Only 1 was counted...
10:10 دعواهم فيها سبحانك اللهم وتحيتهم فيها سلام واخر دعواهم ان الحمد لله رب العالمين
Their call/prayer in it (is): "Oh/you God Your praise/glory." And their greeting in it (is): "Security/peace." and their last call/prayer (is): "That the praise/gratitude (is) to God the creations all together's/(universes') Lord.
39:46 قل اللهم فاطر السماوات والارض عالم الغيب والشهادة انت تحكم بين عبادك في ماكانوا فيه يختلفون
Say: “O God...
Only 1 was counted...
40:74 من دون الله قالوا ضلوا عنا بل لم نكن ندعوا من قبل شيئا كذلك يضل الله الكافرين
From other than God? They said: "They were misguided from us, but we were not calling from before a thing." As/like that God misguides the disbelievers.
These last two are OK...
77:31 لاظليل ولايغني من اللهب
La thaleelin wala yughnee mina allahabi
92:12 ان علينا للهدى
That truly on Us the guidance.
Total (not including 112 chapter titles) Allah in Quran = 2706!
Peace