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General Issues / Questions => Questions/Comments on the Quran => Topic started by: Layth on January 29, 2003, 12:15:03 PM

Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on January 29, 2003, 12:15:03 PM
Peace to you all,

The translation project which is available at Free-Minds has reached a milestone at being just over 53% complete...

Please review the translation whenever you have time and post any errors (translation or otherwise) on this message board.

The next phase will be to make what is already translated into a 'zip' file which can be downloaded for easy access...The entire translation should be complete by this summer (unless GOD wills otherwise),

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/quran.htm

Layth
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Alireza on February 08, 2003, 11:48:24 PM
Quote from: "Layth"
Peace to you all,

The translation project which is available at Free-Minds has reached a milestone at being just over 53% complete...

Please review the translation whenever you have time and post any errors (translation or otherwise) on this message board.

The next phase will be to make what is already translated into a 'zip' file which can be downloaded for easy access...The entire translation should be complete by this summer (unless GOD wills otherwise),

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/quran.htm

Layth


Congratulations Layth.

I have one remark, and its not about the content.

Its about the chronological order of the chapters of the quran.

Shouldnt the quran be in this order?

I am the representative and an active member of a Netherlands-based islamic organisation called "Islamic Conciousness of the Netherlands".

We believe in the same things as free-minds.

I want to make a tabel for the chronological order of the chapters, but I have found many difficulties.

I dont know on what I should ground this order. The order is mainly based on hadith or the personal inquiries of some scholars.

But I think it will be the last great restoration of the damage the traditionalists did against islam if we manage to restore the quran in its right order. It will easen up the understanding and reading of the quran for many people too and it will be a major step for every scholar of individual who wants to read or inquire the quran.

So.. in what ways can you advise me concerning this problem?

Greetings

Faysal
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on February 09, 2003, 03:51:32 AM
Peace to you Ali and welcome to Free-Minds  :D

The Quran was arranged exactly the way we have it today by the design of the Almighty:

"And if We place a verse in place of another verse, and GOD is more aware of what He is revealing, they say: 'you are making this up!'. Alas, most of them do not know. Say: 'the holy spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those who have faith will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for the Submitters'." (16:101-102)

The next step as you pointed out is to 'arrange' the Quran (not by chronological order) but by subject...

This will lead us to an effective and workable constitution that can be put in place (this is the next intended phase after the translation project is complete).

You are on the right track with your thoughts and identified next steps...

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Alireza on February 09, 2003, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: "Layth"
Peace to you Ali and welcome to Free-Minds  :D

The Quran was arranged exactly the way we have it today by the design of the Almighty:

"And if We place a verse in place of another verse, and GOD is more aware of what He is revealing, they say: 'you are making this up!'. Alas, most of them do not know. Say: 'the holy spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those who have faith will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for the Submitters'." (16:101-102)

The next step as you pointed out is to 'arrange' the Quran (not by chronological order) but by subject...

This will lead us to an effective and workable constitution that can be put in place (this is the next intended phase after the translation project is complete).

You are on the right track with your thoughts and identified next steps...

Layth


Salaam

Thanks for your reply.

However, I dont agree with you, nor with the way you interpret the verse you came up with.

Ok, tell me then.

Is it possible to put the verses of the quran in chronological order or not?

Wassalam
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on February 09, 2003, 11:21:17 AM
Peace,

Quote
Is it possible to put the verses of the quran in chronological order or not?


I would say 'no' due to the following 2 reasons:

1) The 'chronological' order is based on the history of the compilation of the Quran...This is the same false history which claims that Mohammed passed away without the Quran being arranged, and that a 'commitee' was organized to put the book together as we have it today.

2) The 'chronological' order does not help you understand the Quran since you are not relating subject matters together as we are told to do (Tarteel). The Quran gives a message when it is arranged by order of subject, and not by order of which verses came when...

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2003, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: "Layth"
Peace,

Quote
Is it possible to put the verses of the quran in chronological order or not?


I would say 'no' due to the following 2 reasons:

1) The 'chronological' order is based on the history of the compilation of the Quran...This is the same false history which claims that Mohammed passed away without the Quran being arranged, and that a 'commitee' was organized to put the book together as we have it today.

2) The 'chronological' order does not help you understand the Quran since you are not relating subject matters together as we are told to do (Tarteel). The Quran gives a message when it is arranged by order of subject, and not by order of which verses came when...

Layth


Thank you Layth!

One more question.

You said:

Quote
"The Quran was arranged exactly the way we have it today by the design of the Almighty"


So it is the almighty which arranged the quran like we have it today?

Starting with al faatihah and ending with an naas?

I cant believe that, and I must say there is plenty of proof against that.

Further you said something that joyed my heart. You said:

Quote
The next step as you pointed out is to 'arrange' the Quran (not by chronological order) but by subject...

This will lead us to an effective and workable constitution that can be put in place (this is the next intended phase after the translation project is complete).


That is COOL!!!

I cant wait and I wish you all of success!

I have this theory why the ulema threw all verses chaotically in one book.

They want to make understanding of the quran difficult for ordinary people.

I still would prefer to see the quran in its chronological order, but since that seems to be impossible.... a pity.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on February 09, 2003, 12:10:49 PM
Peace,

Quote
So it is the almighty which arranged the quran like we have it today? Starting with al faatihah and ending with an naas?
I cant believe that, and I must say there is plenty of proof against that.


I personally understand this order to be deliberate to serve 2 functions:

1) Make the Book only accesible to those who are 'sincere' in their study and work for it (there is no such thing as a 'free-ride' on this planet).

2) Protect the Book from tampering/alterations done by men (this is the fate of all previous scripts...the Quran survives in the heart of tyranny and oppression because the rulers never see it as a threat to their 'way of life' in the way it is presented).

Quote
I still would prefer to see the quran in its chronological order, but since that seems to be impossible.... a pity.


I suggest you try reading the Quran in the 'alleged' chronological order of revelation so you can see that it carries no difference in undertsanding to the mixed verse structure you have today (you can easily find a listing of the chronological order on the net and then recite the book and see the difference - None!).

Quote
I cant wait and I wish you all of success!


Yes, once we can 'arrange' the Book in order of subject (which is our next phase)...then watch out to all tyrants and corrupt systems because there will finally be an 'alternative' for the people to embrace.

Layth
Title: The order of the Quran
Post by: themovement1 on February 19, 2003, 09:58:51 PM
From my understanding the history about the re-compilation of the Qur'an from it's original order comes from the Hadeeth. We cannot trust this story just as we cannot trust much of the other stories handed down to us  in the Hadeeth. These stories occur much later than the Qur'an and are presumptuious and assumptuious as it concerns some "original" order of the Qur'an.

Questions to be asked:

Where cannot it be found that the Qur'an came in a different order than it is in now?

Who has promoted this concept?

Is it to be trusted over the other many stories concerning the revelation or compilation of the Qur'an to be found in the extra and post-quranic traditions?

Why is it impossible, and so illogical, that the Qur'an came down in the order that it is in now?

Can't this idea of the Qur'an being in some sort of mix-match order be a hindrance to our understanding of the Qur'an, by perverting our approach to it?

Godbless,
Anwar
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on March 12, 2003, 08:47:29 PM
Quote from: "Layth"
Peace to you all,

The translation project which is available at Free-Minds has reached a milestone at being just over 53% complete...

Please review the translation whenever you have time and post any errors (translation or otherwise) on this message board.

The next phase will be to make what is already translated into a 'zip' file which can be downloaded for easy access...The entire translation should be complete by this summer (unless GOD wills otherwise),

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/quran.htm

Layth



Great Job brother Layth,

I would like to ask you if you have considered to make a WORD or PFF file of this GREAT koranic translation.So that we all can download it and print it out.

Wassalaam
Martijn :)
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 13, 2003, 03:40:42 AM
Peace to you Martijn,

Quote
I would like to ask you if you have considered to make a WORD or PFF file of this GREAT koranic translation.So that we all can download it and print it out.  


I am planning to convert the translation to .txt files which can be downloaded (I was waiting to finish the whole thing first and have it checked)...If people here see the need is present to convert what is already available into .txt files, then it can be done.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AaRoN on March 13, 2003, 03:36:04 PM
peace

brother layth, i myself would love to see the entire thing converted into one giant .txt file, it would make it easier to correct spelling and grammatical errors by making it possible to check the entire document all in one go instead of opening and closing files over and over...

makes it easier for me to concentrate!

:D
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wilson on March 13, 2003, 04:38:34 PM
There are too much spelling errors in the text that i don't know where to start.
I think the best thing to do is that you just read the text once when you are finished with the translation. And erase all the errors you come across with.  :wink:
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on March 13, 2003, 05:50:47 PM
Salaam brother Lathy,

Is the word HANGING a better translation for "ALAQ" than CLOT. For examble in (96.2).

Wasalaam egie,
Abdallah Ibn Qaasaa
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on March 13, 2003, 06:03:55 PM
Asalaam Alykum,
You have produced the best and sincered translation ever made in English my brother in Islam.
Ma S'saalaam.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 14, 2003, 02:44:04 AM
Peace to you all,

Quote
There are too much spelling errors in the text that i don't know where to start.
I think the best thing to do is that you just read the text once when you are finished with the translation. And erase all the errors you come across with.


I have not read any chapter yet after translating it (was planning to do that in the final stage)...but I believe Aaron's suggestion of making one large .txt file and then having others and myself read it for errors makes the most sence.

Quote
Is the word HANGING a better translation for "ALAQ" than CLOT. For examble in (96.2).



'Hanging' would not convey the meaning intended if it were used in a sentence...Perhaps there is another more sceintific term that can be used other than 'clot'?.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 18, 2003, 06:04:25 AM
Peace all,

I have complied chapters 1-25 into one formatted file which will be ready for downloading...

However, I would like to ask if anyone here (Arron, Munim?) who have noticed some typos or gramatical errors wouldn't mind doing a quick 'proof read' (I have done that already, but may have missed some)...

Just give me your e-mail and I wills end you the file (it is in word 2000 or I can send it as a rich text file - zipped of course!).

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 18, 2003, 11:14:08 AM
Peace,

I have uploaded the file that contains chapters 1-25 at the link below if anyone wants to check it...

You may want to save it on your PC then open it (I tried to open directly with winzip and it did not go to well!).

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/QT.zip

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: ayman on March 18, 2003, 02:03:04 PM
Dear brother Layth,

I just noticed that the same exact Arabic word "aymanukum" in 4:3 and thirty verses down in 4:33 is interpreted inconsistently in the translation.

Quote

[4:3] And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry off those who have consented to you of the women, two, three and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or what your RIGHT HAND possesses. This is best that you do not get into hardship.

[4:33] And for each We have made heirs for what was left behind by the parents and the relatives. And those whom you have contracted by OATHS, you shall give them their portion. GOD is witness over all things.


Oath seems to be the more correct and consistent interpretation.

Please let me know what you think.

Ayman.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 18, 2003, 11:17:05 PM
Peace Ayman,

You are correct, 'Oaths' is the more accurate of the two translations...

I will amend this in all other verses.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AaRoN on March 19, 2003, 01:44:47 AM
peace Layth

awesome bro!

i'll start workin on that as soon as it loads...hopefully it will work to convert, right now i have to use WordPad cuz of my computer crashing, i am using an old hard drive with not enough room on it for an OS and Office XP until i am able to get a new hard drive...

if it won't work for me straightaway, i will get a friend to convert it for me and send it back...

i am eager to check this out

thanks eh! :)
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on March 19, 2003, 06:05:07 AM
Peace Aaron,

Quote
if it won't work for me straightaway, i will get a friend to convert it for me and send it back...


I have made the file also available as a 'rich text format' in the link below (you should be able to open that with most programs.

http://www.free-minds.org/quran/QT2.zip

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 07:47:23 PM
Asalaam Alykum brother Lathy,

Suraat el Qaaf ayaat 4 is inconsisted translated my brother, I think it is better to translated it more literatir, Like for examble Rachad did with his translation.
The ayaat clearly point to how we are consumed by the earth as we die. and you have missed this.

Wasalaam,
Suhain Yamien :)
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 07:08:59 PM
Peace brother layth,

I see that you translated the word 'sitta eyame' as 6 days, is it not better to translate it as 6 periodes?

Ma Salaam,
Tarik Qura
Bahrian
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wilson on April 03, 2003, 01:00:25 AM
Salaam

I only get the first 27 chapters with both, the 1st and 2nd run of translated chapters for downloading . The last part (first 70-114 then 50-114) is missing.

Or is it just me  :?  ?
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on April 03, 2003, 02:09:44 AM
Peace,

Quote
I only get the first 27 chapters with both, the 1st and 2nd run of translated chapters for downloading . The last part (first 70-114 then 50-114) is missing.
Code: [Select]


I just downloaded a copy and I got all the chapters mentioned (problem could be with the version of Microsoft word you are using).

http://www.free-minds.org/QT.zip (this is the updated link)

If you are still having problems, I will upload the file as a 'rich text file'.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wilson on April 03, 2003, 03:30:53 AM
I found http://www.free-minds.org/QT.zip to be indeed the updated link.

But the links on the 'What's New'-Page, both from March and April are incomplete (last part missing). The URL of both is http://www.free-minds.org/quran/QT.zip

But thanks; I've downloaded the updated (complete) version now.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on April 03, 2003, 08:16:53 AM
Peace,

Thanks, I will correct those pages...

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2003, 07:58:14 AM
BROTHER LAYTH I LOVE YOU :)  THIS IS WHAT I HAVE PRAYED FOR ALL MY TIME FOR THE NON ARAB SPEAKERS, A HONEST CONSISTENT AND INTELLECTUEL TRANSLATION. UP TO DATE !

LOOK AT THOSE OTHER SO CALLED TRANSLATIONS AND COMPAIR THEM WITH THIS ONE, IT IS A SHAME THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED IN 2003 AND NOT FIFTY YEARS AGO.

THE TRUE INDENTITY AND QUALITY OF THE QURAN IS NOW REAL EXPOSED TO THE NON ARABS.

MAY GOD BLESS YOU.

YOUR SISTER
ZUHRAH BEN FACHALL
FROM QATAR.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2003, 04:30:48 PM
Asalaam Alykoem,

Layth,  

Why only you translated "tara'ib" as VISCERA and all the other translaters used the word RIBS.

Masalaam,

Hasan Affaal
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wilson on April 11, 2003, 03:34:28 AM
Rashad Khalifa did also  :idea:
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2003, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: "Mu'min"
Rashad Khalifa did also  :idea:


I just forgot it brother Mu"min thank you. :)

but still brother layth I don't know why? Because there a huge differnt between these two words, and at the same time if you look to the other english even other languages they all translated it into RIBS. A lot of militant evagelees has also raised this question. the word TARA'IB is Ribbs they say. Is this true.

Wasalaam

Hasan Affaal
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on April 11, 2003, 07:23:39 PM
Peace,

You may find the following sites interesting:

Interesting bit of scientific info from brother Aziz:
http://www.progressivemuslims.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112

The roots TRB:
http://burhan.freewebsitehosting.com/data/b.x.1162.htm


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on May 05, 2003, 08:31:58 AM
Peace to you all,

By the grace of God, the first phase of the Quran Translation project is
complete with all 114 chapters now available...

The 2nd phase (being worked on now with brother Aaron) is to 'edit' the text and identify any errors...

http://www.free-minds.org/QT.zip

Please download the translation (it is a word file) and PLEASE inform me
directly of any errors you come across (textual or even translation wise).

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2003, 07:14:54 PM
Peace Layth,

Thank you for the time & effort you have put into the translation. It is definitely appreciated by myself, as it's very good in my opinion. May Allah reward you for your efforts.

I showed my mum some verses from the translation recently and she really liked it too.  :)


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: muslim1118 on May 13, 2003, 02:01:07 PM
salaam alaikum.......just found a minor gramatical error.....in sura 95:6.....Except those who have believed and did good work, they will have a reward of thanks.   should read.....Except those who have believed and done good work, they will have a reward of thanks.
examples of use of have or has in a sentence....(i have done), (you have done), (he, she or it has done), (we, you or they have done or those have done or those who have done).........insha'Allah this will help...aside from that....you're doing a great job, insha'Allah you'll be rewarded for this effort and its easy for people like myself to point out a small error here and there but it takes so much more effort to take on the task of translating the Quran and putting it online......i know you understand the errors are only pointed out with the best intentions
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on May 16, 2003, 10:31:20 PM
Dear Frank,

Thank you...I am in the process of editing the first half of the translation, while brother Aaron is handeling the second half (I have forwarded your message to him).

God willing this translation can be one of the best if people like you and others here continue to provide support through constructive critisizm and sharing.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on May 20, 2003, 05:56:50 PM
peace,

Ch. 91:

By the Sun and its brightness.

And the Moon which follows it.

And the day which reveals.

And the night which covers.

And the sky and what He built.

And the earth and what He sustains.

And a soul and what He made.

So He gave its evil and its good.

Successful is the one who redeems (betters/purifies/excels) it.

And failing is the one who hides (buries) it.

Thamud denied their transgression.

They followed the worst amongst them.

GOD's messenger said to them: 'this is GOD's she camel, let it drink'.

They disbelieved him, and they killed her. So their Lord requited (redressed[/color]/repaid might be simpler) them for their sin and destroyed it.

Yet, those who came after remain heedless.
And He does not fear its end.

Preferences are in blue above.

---------------------

Also...
16:59 = the word should be bury not burry

--------------------

Wakas
Title: Quran Translation
Post by: arshadkhan on May 28, 2003, 09:27:51 PM
Salam,
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am a Muslim and I also have similar thoughts as you have. I haven't read your complete Quran's Translation but just quickly went through.
Let me first tell you that when I found your website, I was quite enthusaistic at first but after a quick review of the translation it proved to be short lived.
I do not want to criticize you or discourage you (please bear this in mind) but I want to notify you where in my understanding you can do better.

Actually the translation you are doing is in no way different from many other translations easily available on the internet, e.g. of Mohsin, Picthall, Yosuf Ali.
Secondly if you do some research you will find out that most of those translations are incorrect in many places like e.g. in 2: 18, where it is said "they are deaf, dumb and blind", whence in actuality it is "they do not use their eyesight, and brains to think and ponder upon."

Then the story of Adam and Iblees 2: 30 is also metaphorical (a very, very important point) which you have neglected.

Below is the website where I have collected a number of scholars' translations who are in such manner, which should benefit you.

http://www.geocities.com/masad03/

No hard feelings, Thanks and keep up the good work.
Arshad Khan
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on May 31, 2003, 05:57:09 AM
Peace Arshad,

Your comments are most appreciated and I agree that the translation on its face value offers 'nothing new' from what is already out there...

The difference lies in the subtle points where this translation has become the work of many people who adhere to 'God Alone' (through their input and efforts) and thus avoids the influence of sectarian teachings and interpretations as much as possible (a good example can be seen in the first few verses of Chapter 4 or Chapter 5 which differ greatly from all other translations).

The verses you have pointed to 2:18 & 2:30 are correctly translated (literally) in the translation on the site...what you are refering to is an 'interpretation' and nor a translation (you can find many such ideas in nearly all the articles on the F-M site which are based on 'interpretation').

You may also want to look at the translation of http://www.qaiu.org which is more of an 'interpretation' as well...

Layth
Title: Quran Translation
Post by: elmartc on June 09, 2003, 09:56:22 AM
Peace Layth,

I noticed that the Chapter 10 stops at verse 106, while it has 109 verses. So, the verses 107, 108, 109 - got forgotten. Please add them to the translation. Thank you,

Elmar
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Danish on June 09, 2003, 09:40:33 PM
Peace Layth and to all,

I wonder what you guys think about the site http://www.qaiu.org. It sounds a little wierd and I could be wrong, in that they simply won't accept any criticism whatsoever regarding their QXP forum and QAIU. I have been reading a lot of their post lately and they delete the ones who challenge them in Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's interpretations because they say it comes form within his own mind and soul and that it cannot be altered. Unless someone finds any grammatical errors, everyone seems to honor and follow whatever Dr. Shabbir has to say. Am I wrong or what? Also, basically all rituals and even some prophecies seems to have been totally abandoned, such as the Salat, Zakat, Hajj, prophecy of Adam, the stories of Satan, Jinns, Dajjal, etc. are somewhat elusive.

Can Layth or anyone please shed some light on Dr. Shabbir and his works? Much obliged.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on June 10, 2003, 06:44:24 AM
Peace Elmar,

Thank your for the serious observation  :shock:

The translation is currently being edited with Wakas and I will add the missing 3 verses as soon as I have it back (God willing).

Delusions,

I am aware of QAIU...it is a strange place where they all use the same jargon and all they do is praise Dr. Shabir who likes to be praised...Some members from here have posted but had there posts deleted as they questioned the great Dr. I also believe Leila had a nasty incident via private e-mail with Dr. Shabir where he used foul language at her...I do not know what this group is doing or where they are going, but they do cause me alarm with their cult mindset.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Danish on June 10, 2003, 08:44:13 AM
Peace Layth,

I appreciate your response and agree with you. Likewise, I questioned them on certain critical issues, not one got posted. Perhaps I am looking forward to the private emailing as well.

Quote
...all they do is praise Dr. Shabir who likes to be praised...but they do cause me alarm with their cult mindset.

So very true. Not to be offenseful, I believe Dr. Shabbir and some of his administration have very arrogant and egoistic minds and yet how funny he explains that Satan is actually ones' "ego". Do you believe that or do you think that 'Satan' and 'ego' are seperate but concurrent.

Any thoughts on Dr. Shabbir's Quranic interpretation by the way?

God help!
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on July 03, 2003, 09:10:07 AM
Peace Layth & All,
Now that the Qur'an Translation (QT) online is done. What's the next step? Any word on the print version? I'm very interested and very willing to participate with whatever I can offer. :D It may not be that much, but I think if we all got together, we should be able to get it out there...? Please keep us updated with that. I thought of this even more, about 2 days ago when for some reason we had no electricity for like 6 hours. A big thing in the US.... just another day in africa! :lol:  Anyway, I couldn't get access to the QT, and I really didn't feel like opening Yusuf Ali!
So... when do we start!?
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on July 03, 2003, 09:45:53 AM
Peace brother,

Quote
Now that the Qur'an Translation (QT) online is done. What's the next step? Any word on the print version? I'm very interested and very willing to participate with whatever I can offer.


The idea was to get a few quotes from printers (we got one from the UK) and then to raise money to print the QT so it can be distributed free-of-charge.

That plan does not seem to be going anywhere at present.

Plan B is to use an on-line printer (this costs very little comparitavely) and he would make the QT available for purchase on-line and at major book-outlets (like Amazon)...The drawback is that people have to purchase it.

I have also not put pressure on this project as I am finding time to be on our side in correcting the little mistakes that have slipped through the editing net.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on July 03, 2003, 10:07:57 AM
Quote
The idea was to get a few quotes from printers (we got one from the UK) and then to raise money to print the QT so it can be distributed free-of-charge.

Just to give you an idea of how expensive UK is, M. A. Malek, printed his books (A study of the Qur'an) in Bangladesh, shipped them to UK and the total cost was still less than half! :shock: I can get you details of you're interested!  :wink:
Quote
Plan B is to use an on-line printer (this costs very little comparitavely) and he would make the QT available for purchase on-line and at major book-outlets (like Amazon)...The drawback is that people have to purchase it.

I have a feeling this is probably what you're gonna have to do (although I have no idea what an online printer is!)  I wouldnt mind purchasing several of them. And if you want to start the fund raising process, I'm in line.  8)
Peace!
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on July 03, 2003, 12:01:22 PM
peace all,

I dont see a problem with selling a copy of the FM QT at cost-price, instead of free.

Another future possibility could be to make the FM QT easier to study, by having a searchable database, chapter&verse look-up etc. similar to other programs available.

Zenje, I received no response from M. A. Malek when I emailed him ages ago, is he still around?


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on July 03, 2003, 01:34:29 PM
Peace Wakas,

Quote
I dont see a problem with selling a copy of the FM QT at cost-price, instead of free.

I think you're right. If anyone wants it for free, it's there.. online! :)

Quote
Zenje, I received no response from M. A. Malek when I emailed him ages ago, is he still around?

Hey, you have to have connections to get through! :lol:  Last I 'spoke' to him was about a month ago. But think about it, that could be another idea to publish in a country like that where its really cheap and ship it.  :idea:  The Quality is still good.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on July 18, 2003, 08:30:30 AM
Hopefully, this will be helpful...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/think786/QT_html.zip

Once unzipped/extracted, click on the file "~QT_home" to view it.


If anyone has any problems with it, let me know.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on July 18, 2003, 11:07:30 AM
Quote
If anyone has any problems with it, let me know.


I'm getting this error - the page cannot be found

Peace
Title: Peace
Post by: Layla Hanifa Amatullah on July 18, 2003, 11:22:49 AM
Printing the FM translation is an excellent idea! I prefer reading from a book to using a computer (poor old-fashioned me!  :lol:  )

Speaking of printing, two days ago I talked to my friend from Ireland, who, in turn, is in touch with a guy- an owner of an internet printing house. The prises are to be much cheaper, among other things because they can print only the quantity needed (no storing costs) and the book can be re-printed as many times as necessary since the whole thing would be stored in the computer. If you think it's worth checking, give me all details (like the pages, amounts, etc) so I can get back to you with more info...
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on July 18, 2003, 11:37:20 AM
Peace sis,

Quote
Speaking of printing, two days ago I talked to my friend from Ireland, who, in turn, is in touch with a guy- an owner of an internet printing house. The prises are to be much cheaper, among other things because they can print only the quantity needed (no storing costs) and the book can be re-printed as many times as necessary since the whole thing would be stored in the computer. If you think it's worth checking, give me all details (like the pages, amounts, etc) so I can get back to you with more info...


I have found one such company (it costs between $300-600 for the work to be published). They then only print the book when an order is made online or through some of the internet retailers (amazon.com).

I believe this is the best way to go at this stage. My only delay was from proofreading the translation (again!) so there are no errors (though I am sure that a few willslip the net in the end).

The work currenly is 372 pages on a word document format.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on July 18, 2003, 12:12:41 PM
peace zenje,

If I remember correctly, did you have a problem with a link last time? Anyways, I can email it to you if you wish, just PM me your email address. Does "right click & save target as" work?

If anyone else has problems of this kind, let me know, as it could just be a glitch in zenje's matrix...


Wakas

ps - Layth, I will update it with the latest word document QT once every so often, to keep it up to date.  :)
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on July 18, 2003, 12:20:44 PM
Peace,

Quote
ps - Layth, I will update it with the latest word document QT once every so often, to keep it up to date.


Thanks bro...Though do not expect any updates (beyond the 18th July) for the next 28 days as I am on vacation  :wink:

If communication from me is cut off, then please do not worry...I have not been arrested 'yet!' though the authorities here have shut down acess to Free-Minds about 2-weeks ago (I now update the site through ftp but can't open its pages directly).

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on August 03, 2003, 06:18:52 AM
SL = draw forth/out from another thing (e.g. like a hair from dough, sword from sword case), fall out from something, strive to outstrip/surpass others/something, take/steal secretly, connect one thing with another.

Lane's Lexicon used the following examples to demonstrate its usage [23:12, 32:8], therefore I think it should read as...

23:12 = We have created mankind from what is drawn forth/out of the clay/earth/mud.

32:8 = Then He made his offspring from what is drawn forth/out from excreted fluid.

?

Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AaRoN on August 03, 2003, 11:50:32 PM
peace

wow wakas, that must be a pretty cool toy you got there :D
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on August 11, 2003, 02:56:57 PM
Salaam Layth & All,
I know you mentioned, that we still had some time to go before the QT is in print. I was just wondering, since some of us aren't so well to do, financially, but willing to donate to this project... Do you think it would help, if we put in some money every maybe once/twice a month away in an account until it's ready to go? I'm not sure about the plan for printing it, coz you mentioned something about internet printing, but whatever the method, I'm sure there's some funds required at some point! So.. what's the best way to go about it? Is there an account number we can transfer some money into? It's not much (so dont get too excited  :lol:  ), but it's something!
Peace
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on August 12, 2003, 02:38:48 AM
Peace brother,

Quote
I know you mentioned, that we still had some time to go before the QT is in print. I was just wondering, since some of us aren't so well to do, financially, but willing to donate to this project... Do you think it would help, if we put in some money every maybe once/twice a month away in an account until it's ready to go?


The option I have gone with (internet printing) has been funded already internally...Basically the cost was for the set-up of the template, a full review of the book, plus the design of the cover, etc...

What will happen is that the work will be available for order through the internet companies (such as Amazon.com, and iuniverse.com).

If you like, when the book is available, we could chip-in from time to time and order large quantities (like 500 or more) which can then be distributed free of charge to people interested in the message of the Quran.

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: zenje on August 12, 2003, 08:24:46 PM
Quote
If you like, when the book is available, we could chip-in from time to time and order large quantities (like 500 or more) which can then be distributed free of charge to people interested in the message of the Quran.

Sounds good to me!  :D  Just tell us when and where... and how :wink:
Salaam
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Damon on August 13, 2003, 07:19:55 PM
Salaam all.
I think that's a brilliant idea. Count me in.
Peace.  :)
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: DoctorNO on August 21, 2003, 07:21:38 PM
cool.


about 27:17 what made you decide to translate what the other translations say as "jinns" into "non-human"?

in 4:12 there would still be the mathematical overflow on certain scenarios.

in 86:7 it would still go against common knowledge that the life giving fluid comes from the testicles. the very fluid itself, not some additional fluid components that comes from some viscera.

in 4:34 I heard that the scholars are still debating at what a word ("beat" in some translations) actually mean. how did you guys arrive at your translation of "separate"? are being honest or being politically correct?
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on August 22, 2003, 03:05:26 AM
Peace to you,

Quote
about 27:17 what made you decide to translate what the other translations say as "jinns" into "non-human"?


I believe you are looking at an older version...In the latest, it was agreed to leave "Jinn" untranslated since the debate was unresolved as to what word best would describe these beings.

Quote
in 4:12 there would still be the mathematical overflow on certain scenarios.


If you can give an example, I can re-look the wording.

Quote
in 86:7 it would still go against common knowledge that the life giving fluid comes from the testicles. the very fluid itself, not some additional fluid components that comes from some viscera.


I will re-look this...

Quote
in 4:34 I heard that the scholars are still debating at what a word ("beat" in some translations) actually mean. how did you guys arrive at your translation of "separate"? are being honest or being politically correct?


You can read a detailed article on why such undertsanding was given...It defies the entire context and purpose of the verse in question (resolving maritial disputes) to 'beat' the spouce!.

http://www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: TheNabi on September 11, 2003, 01:22:47 PM
Peace Layth

Why don't you translate the Torah and Injeel into their English equivalents? As far as my knowledge about the subject is, Torah would be best translated as 'Teaching' or 'Guidance', and Injeel would be translated as 'The Good News'. We had a discussion about it on the Amongbelievers forum and this is what we came up with.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amongbelievers/message/6036

Joe
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on September 11, 2003, 02:19:59 PM
peace Joe,

Hmm... if guidance is chosen it may conflict with "hudan" which means guidance or code of conduct, by Al-Quran's usage.

Just my two pence (I'm British)...

Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: TheNabi on September 11, 2003, 02:24:47 PM
Peace Wakas

That is true. But do remember all the Scriptures were Books, Instructions, Lights, Guidance, Good-News, etc. All these titles describe the nature of the Book/s. If Guidance conflicts with  "hudan" than perhaps 'Instruction' can be used. However it is used, I think 'Guidance' will still fit the meaning of Torah regardless.

I was also thinking, the Torah is the title for the Book sent to Moses. So even if it were to conflict with another word meaning guidance, this would be guidance of a different nature, that is, the title of a Book.  :?: For example: The Quran = The Reading/Recital, The Torah = The Guidance/Instruction, The Injeel = The Good News.  <~~These are the Titles of the Books which also alludes to their natures.

Joe
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on September 11, 2003, 03:08:18 PM
Peace Joe,

Quote
I was also thinking, the Torah is the title for the Book sent to Moses. So even if it were to conflict with another word meaning guidance, this would be guidance of a different nature, that is, the title of a Book.  For example: The Quran = The Reading/Recital, The Torah = The Guidance/Instruction, The Injeel = The Good News. <~~These are the Titles of the Books which also alludes to their natures.


You are absolutely correct in your analysis...However, the reason 'Quran' was not translated to 'the reading' was (as Wakas pointed out) to let it stand out to the reader as the specific name of the text.

Translating Torah, Injeel, Quran or even Ahmad will lose the intended delivery in my opinion :)

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AaRoN on September 11, 2003, 03:26:43 PM
peace

don't you think it's time that if we are going to be examining the commonly held beliefs of the meanings of words as used in Quran that we also examine the meanings of words like al tawrat and al injyl?

without doing that, people will continue to believe that the Quran is referring to the torah and the bible, which i think we have to be wary of.

there's no sense to make a modern translation and call it literal if you are just gonna repeat the same thing as other translations but use modern english to do it.

here we are, examining makkah, examining Salat, examining hajj, etc., but leaving it as torah?

the same as we have to encourage people to let go of hadith, we have to encourage people to let go of the bible and the torah, and to examine what the Quran is saying based on its own merit.

otherwise, we are being biased in our criticism of hadith, sunnis, and the shia, but leaving the christians and jews to hold on to their beliefs which may be incorrect.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on September 11, 2003, 03:32:57 PM
peace all,

I agree Joe, words which describe the scriptures are easily interchangeable with each other.

But I also agree with what Layth said:

Quote
...to let it stand outto the reader as the specific name of the text.

Translating Torah,Injeel, Quran or even Ahmad will lose the intended delivery in my opinion.



Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: TheNabi on September 11, 2003, 04:41:27 PM
Peace Layth

I understand what you mean, but what do you think of putting it like Torah/Guidance and Injeel/Good News. Putting the meaning next to the common names?

Joe
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: TheNabi on September 11, 2003, 05:02:11 PM
Peace

I agree with Aaron though. I do not think things should be done to stroke the audiences desire. Everything should be translated. People will know what 'the Reading', the 'Guidance' and the 'Good News' mean if they read the Book of God. Just as Hadith is translated so should the Quran and the Torah and Injeel be translated. Salaat afterwards when we find the best meaning for it.

Joe
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AaRoN on September 11, 2003, 05:53:25 PM
peace

yeah joe, that's part of what i am saying.

but i'm also questioning whether al tawrat translates as "the instruction" and al injiyl translates as "the good news" in the first place.

i also question translating yahuwd as "jews", naSara as "christians", etc., because in my view, these words have meanings far beyond the "religious groups" that they are translated as.

if Quran is supposed to be a book for all times, what happens if there are no jews or christians anymore? if everyone became buddhists, does it suddenly mean that these words in Quran have no meaning?

i for one don't believe that.

if i'm gonna shed the historical view of Salat, and the historical view of hajj, and the historical view of ramaDan, etc. etc, ad nauseum, then it only stands to reason that i shed the historical view of the meanings of these other words and concepts.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Damon on September 11, 2003, 09:33:13 PM
Peace AaRon,

I see what you are saying and I personally believe that It's a valid enough concern that should be examined.

suggestion:

Maybe we can all look into our Arabic/English Dictionaries and look up these words by their roots. After we establish possible meanings of these words according to the root letters (and of course examining the words that are related and share the same roots) we can try to find all these words in the Quran and examine each and every verse using these words.

Then, we judge according to usage and context and let the Quran define these words on it's own merits.

At least that's my humble suggestion and I'm quite sure someone here can come up with an even better solution than that.

Peace all,

Damon.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on September 12, 2003, 01:13:43 AM
Peace Joe,

Quote
I understand what you mean, but what do you think of putting it like Torah/Guidance and Injeel/Good News. Putting the meaning next to the common names?


I can do that in the 'Arabic Index' at the bottom of the translation...Using multiple words or brackets is something I would like to avoid.

Lath
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: DoctorNO on September 12, 2003, 09:43:32 AM
Peace, people.

I just want to bring to your attention a serious refutation to your translation of 4:34.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6715

Hmmm even Rashad Khalifa supported the "beat" translation.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on September 12, 2003, 10:20:47 AM
Dear Dr. No,

Quote
Peace, people.

I just want to bring to your attention a serious refutation to your translation of 4:34.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6715

Hmmm even Rashad Khalifa supported the "beat" translation.


I have just looked at the article...The whole argument as far as I understood is based on two premises:

1. That so many respected and honerable translators used 'beat' (even the Hmmm Rahsad Khalifa)...Which means we are a bunch of lunies for breaking rank.

2. That 'Darab' can have multiple meanings only IF the subject matter is not a human...As soon as the subject matter becomes the woman, then it mans we must beat her to death!.

I would say that 4:34 is translated perfectly correctly both linguistically AND practically when dealing with a dispute/problem with your spouce (I advise any follower of the 'beat them' twist to try this approach and see how well it resolves the problem with their spouce).

P.S. not to spoil the great work of faithfreedom in refuting our undertsanding, but in 37:93 the subject is NON-HUMAN which demolishes the argument that was being constructed that when 'darab' is used for non-humans it can mean so many things, but when it is speaking of humans it can only mean 'beat'.

Quote
[37.93] <- Object: Human

Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the right hand.

Faragha AAalayhim darban bialyameeni

That?s a good one. Here, darban bialyameeni literally means ?hit them [people] with the right [hand].? According to this verse, when verb ?daraban? is applied to humans, it meant ?beat? or the similar word ?strike.? It can never mean ?separate them from your right hand,? as it sounds completely ridiculous. The Islamic site ALSO agrees that ?darab? here means ?strike.?



Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: DoctorNO on September 12, 2003, 11:52:02 AM
Quote from: "Layth"

2. That 'Darab' can have multiple meanings only IF the subject matter is not a human...As soon as the subject matter becomes the woman, then it mans we must beat her to death!.


No, what the author is trying to tell you is that the meaning of most of the words we use is DEPENDENT on the subject of application.  And 'Darab' is no exception. In the quran all instances of Darab applied to a HUMAN BEING (excluding 4:34 for this is the disputed verse) refers the violence of being beaten.
Title: MESSAGE FOR YOU...
Post by: DoctorNO on September 12, 2003, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: "arabchristian"
Quote from: "Mr.Layth"
P.S. not to spoil the great work of faithfreedom in refuting our undertsanding, but in 37:93 the subject is NON-HUMAN


How is it a non-human? In verse 37:93 ->

"Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the right hand."

There is a "THEM" refering to "HUMANS." Also, in verse 37:94 (the next one):

"Then came (the worshippers) with hurried steps, and faced (him)."

The worshippers are the ones refered to by "them." So they are HUMANS.
If I misunderstood it, then please explain so I can correct my mistake.


Quote from: "Mr.Layth"
which demolishes the argument that was being constructed that when 'darab' is used for non-humans it can mean so many things, but when it is speaking of humans it can only mean 'beat'.


Even if verse 37:93 was not directed to humans, I still have verse 2:73 to back my claim, in which the object is clearly a human:

So We said: "Strike him (the dead man) with a piece of it (the cow)."

How is my argument "demolished"?

I will repeat my way of reasoning again:

 :arrow: The only way for ?hit? (or darab) to have multiple meanings is when it can be used, more than once, against a human being, and each time with different interpretations; for example, when ?hit the woman? is found in the Quran to mean both ?beat her? and also ?abandon her,? which is not the case.

Quote from: "Mr.Layth"
I would say that 4:34 is translated perfectly correctly both linguistically AND practically when dealing with a dispute/problem with your spouce (I advise any follower of the 'beat them' twist to try this approach and see how well it resolves the problem with their spouce).

Actually, "linguistically" is what really matters when translating any material. THe practical side is irrelevent. Translation is an act of rendering something into another language, not improving it into another language.


Best Regards,
AC


DoctorNO at your service.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on September 17, 2003, 08:39:12 AM
Peace,

It looks like we have managed to clear all the bugs out of the translation (typos or otherwise)...However, if anything does come across your way when reading, please give a shout.

http://www.free-minds.org/QT.zip (last updated on September 17th).

Layth
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Damon on September 17, 2003, 06:53:26 PM
Peace Layth,

Just wanted to say thanks for putting the entire translation online for viewing.

I still haven't downloaded the file yet, but until then the online viewer will be quite convenient for me.

Peace,

Damon.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on November 06, 2003, 08:24:05 PM
peace Layth,

Not sure if this has been amended in the latest version, but I'll post it anyway, its only minor.

?What has caused you to be in Saqir (saqara)?? [74:42]

The day when they will be dragged upon their faces into the Fire: ?Taste the worst of Hell (saqara)." [54:48]

Root of saqara = Seen-Qaf-Ra = scorch/burn/heat/melt (from Lane)

So, I'm thinking, either "Hell" for both, but preferably "scorching heat" or "burning heat". In 54:48, I'm not sure about the validity of "worst" being in there.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on December 11, 2003, 02:06:18 PM
peace Layth, all,

Re: 24:58

The following are my notes:

The word thaheerati has been mistakingly translated as "noon" by some translators. The closest derivatives to this word which appear in Al-Quran can be found in the following verses:

Did you not see that God has committed in your service everything in the heavens and the earth, and has showered you with His blessings, both apparent (thahiratan) and hidden? Yet from the people are some who argue about God without knowledge, without guidance, and without the enlightening scripture. [31:20]

And We placed between them and between the towns that We blessed, towns that were easily apparent/visible (thahiratan); and We measured the journey between them: "Travel in them by night and day in complete security" [34:18]

With respect to clothing:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent/visible (thahara)... [24:31]

Thus, the translation should read:

...and when you are changing your clothes from/of openess/visibility... [24:58]

In other words, do not change your clothes in clear visibility/openess. Other members of your family should request permission (e.g. knock on door) before entering a private room.
It discusses etiquette (regarding privacy) in the evening and times of undress.

-------

Ayman has the following notes, taken from:
http://www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

...and when you are changing your clothes from appearing (going out)... [24:58]

In verse 24:58, "Zhahirat" means "appearing" as per verses such as 31:20. In other words, in the case of people, it means going out.

-------

Although I disagree with Ayman's understanding, I thought I'd post it for you and others to compare.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on December 12, 2003, 06:31:32 AM
In addition...

4:103

...is a scheduled ledger.

Ledger: taken from dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ledger):

Quote
A book in which the monetary transactions of a business are posted in the form of debits and credits.
A book to which the record of accounts is transferred as final entry from original postings.
A slab of stone laid flat over a grave.
A horizontal timber in a scaffold, attached to the uprights and supporting the putlogs.


I fail to see how 'ledger' is suitable.

My preference (I'm sure with others) is as follows:

...is a timed law/decree/book.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on December 13, 2003, 10:59:13 AM
Furthermore...

In 5:6 and 4:43, the translation should read:

"...or one of you has come from the toilet..."
OR
"... or you have used the toilet..."

See the following thread for evidence for this translation:
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42

-------

16:67

'rizqan' seems to mean sustenance/provision/food, not income. I agree, it could mean income, but the majority usage of this word implies sustenance/provision, see 28:57, 40:13 for example, and not to mention the context is sustenance/provision/food.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on March 16, 2004, 06:42:33 AM
Moreover...

55:19 needs to be changed, by replacing 'separates' with 'merges', for consistancy with 25:53.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on May 18, 2005, 02:59:49 PM
'aqamoo' does not mean 'hold'. Please see 18:77, 5:66, 2:230. It means 'uphold/maintain/vivify' ('to make straight' at its core).

'hajj' does not mean 'pilgrimage'. Please see a dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pilgrimage), 9:3 in which an announcement is made on the greatest/peak day of al HJJ. A pilgrimage is a journey to a sacred location, it is no longer a pilgrimage when they are gathered there. If it is a journey there would be an anomlay in days for each person, hence peak day makes little sense. And 22:27 shows one can call out to mankind with al HJJ. One does not use pilgrimage as a vehicle to call out with. This is a direct link to the word HJJ implying portraying a message/call. al HJJ means the conference/symposium.

Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on June 08, 2005, 07:54:39 AM
'fassala' does not mean 'detailed'.

Please see:

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47501#47501

Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on June 13, 2005, 08:42:27 AM
Quote from: "Wakas"
Coincidentally, today I cam across 12:64, which proves that 'Al-Raheem' means 'The Merciful' beyond a shadow of a doubt, and that it is 'arham' that means 'most merciful' (which makes sense because it is the superlative).


Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on June 13, 2005, 09:55:54 PM
Peace Wakas,

The latest on-line version of the QT (dated June 13, 2005) reflects some of the changes that you had suggested, mainly:

1. Changing 'hold' to 'uphold' for the Salat verses.
2. Dropping 'most' from 'most merciful'.
3. Any inconsistent words/phrases.

As for the suggestions of 'Fassala' and 'Hajj', I do not find myself agreeing with your conclusions after reviewing the words and their respective use in the Scripture.

The Hajj is perscribed to the shrine, thus to use 'debate,conference, symposium' or any other meaning renders the statement illogical since you are not going to debate or conference with the shrine (but at it).  

Thus, while a conference/debate is one of the core activities of the hajj, it is not the hajj itself.

On 'Fassala', the use of 'detailed' holds water with the use of the verses (the suggested change you propose is within the same neighborhood).
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on June 14, 2005, 05:38:35 AM
peace Layth,

Thanks for the feedback but I'm a little disappointed.

Its hard to say whether its been updated or not because when I checked it just now its still the same. This might be due to a delay on the server or something. I have the following comments:

Did you put the changes of 5:6 and 4:43 in? To me, these are obvious.

I disagree with your usage of "outdoors" in 24:58. That could suggest when taking off your coat it is a private time for you! Or people have a weird practice of stripping naked from outside clothing?

The trans. of "scheduled book" in 4:103 is poor, it should be "timed decree/law".

Whilst I may agree that 'fassala' may be in the same neighbourhood as "detailed", for accuracy purposes, its closer to "to distinguish, make distinct, clarify" etc.

I'm afraid you are greatly mistaken about HJJ=pilgrimmage. I noted you did not provide any reference which backed up your claim of HJJ being to... (you used "the shrine" which is another mistake in my opinion, so lets leave it as "al bayt" for this discussion). Where is HJJ ila al bayt in 'al quran'?

Secondly, your meaning of HJJ=pilgrimmage fails the criteria for HJJ based on 'al quran'. How do you answer these points:

One can call out to mankind with al HJJ? [22:27]

If one uses the dictionary.com definition of pilgrimage (a journey to a sacred place), then what is the difference between pilgrimage & visit/3MR, when in English they mean the same thing?

In 2:196 it states "whoever enjoys in the visit until/to/ila al HJJ". I just noticed this. This makes the following highly unlikely: "whoever enjoys in the visit until the pilgrimmage" because the word "visit" implies they are already there, thus what further pilgrimage is this?

If we insert the definition, the distortion/absurdity becomes clear:

"whoever enjoys in the visit until the journey to a sacred place" !

For those who like a little verification, this is for you:

...faman (whoever) tamattaAAa (enjoys) bi (with/in) al AAumrati (the visit) ila (to/until) al hajji (the conference/symposium)...

I feel this is a pivotal sign, in comprehension of meaning.

[ABOVE EDITED: to include "until" meaning, but the point still holds unless one can address the implication of visit implying they are already there, then a further pilgrimage] Is this discussed in your article?



2:196 do we fast during/in the pilgrimmage (i.e. while we are travelling?)

2:197 do we not indulge in ungodliness/disputing during/in the pilgrimage (i.e. while we are travelling?) This doesn't make sense, as we could be travelling alone, thus no-one to dispute with! It is clearly on about when other people are around, and this would be in/during the conference/symposium.

9:3 what is the peak day of pilgrimage? If we insert the dictionary definition, it makes no sense - "the peak day of journeying to a sacred place" as it would be different for everyone.

In 28:27 "that you work for me through eight pilgrimage periods" shows that HJJ can be used as a measurement of time that is well known. If HJJ = pilgrimmage = journey to a sacred place, then the time taken for each person to reach the sacred place would be different, it would be individual due to individual distances travelled, thus different timings would arise and thus could not be a well known time of measurement. Thus "eight conference/symposium periods" would make more sense, as this time is set, therefore more likely to be well known.

Quote from: "Layth"
Thus, while a conference/debate is one of the core activities of the hajj, it is not the hajj itself.


If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?

All feedback appreciated.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on June 19, 2005, 11:24:40 PM
Peace Wakas,

Quote
I disagree with your usage of "outdoors" in 24:58. That could suggest when taking off your coat it is a private time for you! Or people have a weird practice of stripping naked from outside clothing?


Dhaheera is either translated commonly as 'noon' (which does not make sence since that would give only one private time for changing clothes) or the current use of 'outdoors' which stipulates that a change may be nessesary such as changing from outdoor clothes to sleeping clothes (etc.) and not nessesarily every time you step out the door as you have implied.

Quote
The trans. of "scheduled book" in 4:103 is poor, it should be "timed decree/law".


Agree.

Quote
Whilst I may agree that 'fassala' may be in the same neighbourhood as "detailed", for accuracy purposes, its closer to "to distinguish, make distinct, clarify" etc.


I still see 'detailed' as being a more correct meaning.

Quote
I'm afraid you are greatly mistaken about HJJ=pilgrimmage. I noted you did not provide any reference which backed up your claim of HJJ being to... (you used "the shrine" which is another mistake in my opinion, so lets leave it as "al bayt" for this discussion). Where is HJJ ila al bayt in 'al quran'?


'wa lilahi ala alnaas hajj albayt"

"In it are clear signs: the place of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from mankind to make Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds."  (The Message 3:98)

That the pilgrimage is to a destination goes without saying...There is no hajj if you are staying in your home oe in your town...the journey must be made by all to Bakka...Thus it is correct to be translated as 'pilgrimage' and not 'conference'.

Quote
One can call out to mankind with al HJJ? [22:27]


Yes. I see nothing wrong here. Abraham called people with the pilgrimage, and they came from every far point.

Quote
If one uses the dictionary.com definition of pilgrimage (a journey to a sacred place), then what is the difference between pilgrimage & visit/3MR, when in English they mean the same thing?


The pilgrimage is held in specific times, thus anything outside the times of hajj is umrah.

Quote
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?


Because we are told by God that the people (al-naas) will witness benefits for them.

Finally, it is important to note that the purpose of Hajj is not only to meet and debate/discuss, but is to thank God for His blessing of livestock upon us...Changing the word will change the purpose.
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on June 20, 2005, 04:39:13 AM
peace be upon you Layth,

Firstly, I will re-paste the Qs not answered:

Quote from: "Wakas"
Did you put the changes of 5:6 and 4:43 in? To me, these are obvious.


Quote from: "Wakas"
In 2:196 it states "whoever enjoys in the visit until/to/ila al HJJ". I just noticed this. This makes the following highly unlikely: "whoever enjoys in the visit until the pilgrimmage" because the word "visit" implies they are already there, thus what further pilgrimage is this?


There were others, but they were all linked to the way in which you and I are understanding the word 'pilgrimage', so I will try and clarify. I am using the dictionary.com definition:

Quote
1. A journey to a sacred place or shrine.
2. A long journey or search, especially one of exalted purpose or moral significance.


In your view, does it involve journeying or not? Because it seems to me you are mixing this aspect up, or at least you have not addressed this properly. Is it 'journeying to the sacred place', or is it 'being at the sacred place'? Or is it both 'journeying and ending up there at the sacred place'? Please pick one, so I can understand your view and examine it properly.


Quote from: "Layth"
That the pilgrimage is to a destination goes without saying...There is no hajj if you are staying in your home oe in your town...the journey must be made by all to Bakka...Thus it is correct to be translated as 'pilgrimage' and not 'conference'.



Circular argument:

Quote
# Unsound reasoning in which it is argued both that A is the case on the grounds that B is the case and that B is the case on the grounds that A is the case. (Consider: ?That there is a god is reliably stated in our holy book, and we can be sure the holy book is reliable because it?s divinely inspired.?) Compare BEGGING THE QUESTION.
www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml

# The traditional use of the phrase 'Begging the question' describes a type of logical fallacy (also called 'petitio principii') in which the evidence given for a proposition is as much in need of proof as the proposition itself. A common form of begging the question is a circular argument, circulus in probando, vicious circle or circular reasoning in which the proposition to be proved is contained in one of the premises. As a concept in logic the first known definition in the West is by the Gre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_argument


Please give me the specific evidence which proves it is to al bayt, if there is any.

22:27 shows HJJ is a vehicle/medium to call out with. This is unlikely (impossible?) for a 'pilgrimage'.

Quote from: "Wakas"
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?

Quote from: "Layth"
Because we are told by God that the people (al-naas) will witness benefits for them.


You went from the general wording 'witness benefits' to a specific core event of conference/debate? I would expect an explicit reference if this was the case, because 'benefits' could be many things.

Quote from: "Layth"
Finally, it is important to note that the purpose of Hajj is not only to meet and debate/discuss, but is to thank God for His blessing of livestock upon us...Changing the word will change the purpose.


No it would not. Holding an event such as a conference/symposium would require provision (e.g. food/drink) for its participants & visitors. This is done in many conferences today.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: tanveermd on June 26, 2005, 05:54:01 PM
Salaamun alaikum brother Layth,

Following are some of the errors in translation that I have spotted in "The Message". I would appreciate if you can go through the following and all the specified links and correct the meanings in the pm translation of Al-Qur'aan:
 
1. 51:8 By the sky that is clear.
 
Should be:

51:8 By the sky that is weaved/woven
 
The arabic word is "hubuk" which means "weaved" or "interwoven" and not "clear"

That is proof of the "string theory" of subatomic particles. Following reference you will find intresting on this (under "the woven sky"):
 
http://members.aol.com/silence004/

 
2. 2:143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
 
Should be:
 
2:143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
 
Similarly
 
3:143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
 
Should be:
 
3:143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God distinguishing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
 
Similarly
 
9:17 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to know those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
 
Should be:
 
9:17 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to distinguish those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
 
Similarly
 
29:3 While We had tested those before them, so that God would know those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.
 
Should be:
 
29:3 While We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would distinguish the liars.
 
Otherwise the implication is that The God does not know??? whereas He is Allknowing.
 
Please see the following for details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45181&highlight=#45181


3. 4:4 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from their mothers, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you are already betrothed to. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
 
Should be:
 
4:4 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans/widows) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then by one or what your oath possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
 
See following for full details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46738&highlight=#46738
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3533
http://www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html

 
4. 9:6 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
9:12 If they repent, and they uphold the contact-method, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.

Should be:
 
9:6 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the bond, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
9:12 If they repent, and they uphold the bond, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.
 
Please see following link for details:
 
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/disproved_salatequalsprayer.htm

 
5. 2:185 A month in early autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
 
Should be:
 
2:185 Full moon of scorching heat, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the full moon, then let him abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

See following for details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2757&highlight=full+moon
 

6. 4:16 And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.

Should be:
 
4:16 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.

 
7. 55:56 In them are attendants with a splendid look, unknown before by any human or Jinn.
 
Should be:
 
55:56 In them are best of fruits close by, untouched before by any human or Jinn.
 
55:70 In them is what is good and beautiful.
 
Should be:
 
55:70 In them is goodness/benefits most excellent
 
55:72 Companions, inside grand pavilions.
 
Should be:
 
55:72 Pure, confined in tents
 
56:26 And wonderful companions
 
Should be:
 
56:26 And pure/clear springs
 
44:52 So it is, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

Should be:

44:52 So it is, and We granted/gave them pure springs

52:19 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

Should be:

52:19 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We granted/gave them pure springs

38:52 And with them are attendants with a splendid look and of equal age.

Should be:

38:52 And with them are best of fruits close by and matching

37:49 And with them are attendants with wide eyes and a splendid look.

Should be:

37:49 And with them are springs, close by/within close proximity

37:50 They are like fragile eggs.

Should be:

37:50 Like crystal white, carefully guarded
 

For in depth explanation of the above translations from #7 onwards please check out the following link:

http://www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/hur-article.htm


If you do not agree with any of the above mentioned corrected translations then I would appreciate if you can give me a detailed explanation of why you think they are wrong.

Regards,

Tanveer
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on June 29, 2005, 11:06:24 AM
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=49208#49208

"...secure, with your heads releived and restrained/relinquished, having no fear..." [48:27]

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=48647#48647

"...and do not relieve your head (of this duty)..." [2:196]
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: tanveermd on July 31, 2005, 01:44:26 PM
Salaamun alaikukm Layth,

23:64 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bare. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.

It should be "bear" and not "bare"

23:64 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.

Regards,

Tanveer
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on July 31, 2005, 03:49:32 PM
AAlameena (plural, e.g. 1:2) = beings/creations

Quote from: "[url=http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2309
thread[/url]"]Please see the following signs which clearly demonstrate the meaning of AAalameena: 7:80, 15:70, 26:23, 26:165, 29:6, 29:10, 29:28, 44:32

some examples

And We have chosen them, knowingly/knowledgeably (AAilmin), over the creations/beings (AAalameena). [44:32]

Do you approach the males of the creations/beings (AAalameena)? [26:165]

Pharaoh said: "And what is the Lord of the creations/beings (AAalameena)?" [26:23]
He said: "The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, if you are aware" [26:24]


Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on August 21, 2005, 07:27:15 AM
it cannot be Abu Lahab in 111:1

see:
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=52323&highlight=#52323


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Jaxal on August 21, 2005, 12:05:51 PM
SaLaM

And the counter argument to Wakas's notion of "Abu Lahab" not being a name.

see:
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=52332#52332
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on August 21, 2005, 02:59:08 PM
Please see brother Ayman's article on so-called proper names:

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

The original FM/PM translation had 'abu lahab' as 'father of flames', no reason was given for its change as far as I'm aware.


Wakas
Title: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Jaxal on August 21, 2005, 04:48:59 PM
SaLaM Wakas

Seen it, read it and understood it. And it changes nothing.
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on February 17, 2008, 05:57:23 AM
peace Layth, all,

I cant recall where the other thread is for revisions but this one will do.

Before I post another, I would like to highlight some of the others above have not been implemented, meaning they are still present in 'The Message' and still incorrect (in my opinion).


In 35:10

The suffixed pronoun in (yarfa3uhu it/he) is ambiguous because it can refer to either the righteous deed or "whoever" in the beginning of the verse. Thus I believe the possibilities are:

"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed raise him......"

"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed He raises it....."
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on February 17, 2008, 09:10:16 AM
Salam,

Here is The Message translation:

Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and they are exalted by the good deeds. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. (35:10)

I find it more accurate when looking through the Arabic with regards to what the good works/deeds are doing.
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on February 17, 2008, 10:13:50 AM
peace,

Quote
I find it more accurate when looking through the Arabic with regards to what the good works/deeds are doing.

Is 'the righteous deed' singular or not?

Does "yarfa3uhu" refer to a singular thing or not?

Answering these will allow us to see what is more accurate.
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Layth on February 17, 2008, 12:56:43 PM
Peace,

I see the point you are making.

The rightous deed is singular. The raising (yarfa3uhu) is done by God to the good work/deed.

"Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the words that are good, and the good deed, it is made better by Him. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail. (35:10)
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on February 17, 2008, 04:08:44 PM
peace,

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make.  :)

Also yarfa3uhu is imperfect, i.e. an action in the process of being done.

Rather than "To Him ascend the words that are good, and the good deed, it is made better by Him..." perhaps "To Him ascend the good words and He raises the good deed". It's just more concise.

You may wish to consider the other changes I've brought up  ;)
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Rustum on February 18, 2008, 08:55:57 AM
Quraan in its Revelation order did reveal a secret that the qURAAN itself is a collection of 7 individual books here are their names

al Zaboor
al Furqaan
Ayah Ki tab Mubeen
Al Musa al Ki tab
al Ki tab Hakeem
al Ebad Ki tab
al Ki tab la Rayba Feehi

each of these names was take from the Break in each section first Words of first mention of subject matter, i would hope that you all would look into this Finding as it has awaken my spirit and excited my soul because each of these  books is paired with a set of the Letters that sit atop some of the suras and it matches the 7 books perfectly just like the Quraan says AL QURAAN and the 7 Pairs elhamdulillah.....
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: OPF on February 18, 2008, 12:27:21 PM
Quraan in its Revelation order did reveal a secret that the qURAAN itself is a collection of 7 individual books here are their names

al Zaboor
al Furqaan
Ayah Ki tab Mubeen
Al Musa al Ki tab
al Ki tab Hakeem
al Ebad Ki tab
al Ki tab la Rayba Feehi

each of these names was take from the Break in each section first Words of first mention of subject matter, i would hope that you all would look into this Finding as it has awaken my spirit and excited my soul because each of these  books is paired with a set of the Letters that sit atop some of the suras and it matches the 7 books perfectly just like the Quraan says AL QURAAN and the 7 Pairs elhamdulillah.....

Care to expand on this? It makes much more sense than a few other explanations for the initials.

How do you divide them? And is it even reasonable to divide them? Anyway, your interpretation makes a lot of good sense in light of 15:91 - there are 114 surahs here yet 15:87 mentions 7 of "المثاني" - and then follows to reveal that the book has, or may be split up further.
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: AlFajr on February 18, 2008, 05:05:28 PM
Care to expand on this? It makes much more sense than a few other explanations for the initials.

How do you divide them? And is it even reasonable to divide them? Anyway, your interpretation makes a lot of good sense in light of 15:91 - there are 114 surahs here yet 15:87 mentions 7 of "المثاني" - and then follows to reveal that the book has, or may be split up further.

Peace brother,
Doesn't it say we have "given" as in past tense. So how can it be talking about the Quran being in 7 parts?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: OPF on February 18, 2008, 05:11:59 PM
Peace brother,
Doesn't it say we have "given" as in past tense. So how can it be talking about the Quran being in 7 parts?

Thanks!

But if you move onwards it talks about the quran being partitioned, in the past tense? I.e. see 15:89-91. It depends on whether the "quran" being talked about in that verse is the same here. I don't get what those verses are implying either, is the quran supposed to be an undivided recital?
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Hati on May 29, 2008, 10:46:50 PM

Quote
[015:086]  Surely thy Lord, He is the All-creator, the All-knowing.

[015:087]  We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated, and the mighty Koran.

[015:088]  Stretch not thine eyes to that We have given pairs of them to enjoy; and do not sorrow for them, and lower thy wing unto the believers,

[015:089]  and say, 'Surely, I am the manifest warner.'

[015:090]  So We sent it down to the partitioners,

[015:091]  who have broken the Koran into fragments.

Salam,

       I m curious on your discussions and the following questions come to mind:

In the above verses:
          1. What are the seven pairs? [15:87-88]
          2. Who are given these seven pairs? [15:88]
          3. Are the one given seven pairs the partitioners? [15:90]
          4. Have they broken the Quran into fragments?

                   Hati





Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: Wakas on July 05, 2009, 05:54:00 AM
With reference to my previous post in this thread:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596520.msg9069#msg9069

...and when you are changing your clothes from/of (mina: partitive) openess/visibility...  [24:58]

I just thought of this today: is there any significance to the the use of "mina"?

I note no translator (that I checked) translates this word correctly. Is that because it weakens the common understanding of "noon"? (thus indirectly strengthening the above understanding*). Or is this just a normal way to say such a thing in Arabic? Seems a little unusual to me.

*as it implies out of all the times of openess/visibility (i.e. when you are out in the open /visible), it is only the times that you change your clothes that are a private time for you.
Title: Re: Quran Translation Project
Post by: personalquran on July 18, 2020, 01:54:49 AM
Dear all,

Monotheist Group's translation is available in our website which makes it much more convenient to read and perform search against the translation. Furthermore, you can analyze word by word from the translation if you click/tap word by word from the translation. Last but not least, you can choose Monotheist Group's translation as starting point of your personal translation  :sun:


Peace,
Personal Quran