If we do not use the hadith, how could we possibly know anything about Muhammad? I am a Quran aloner, but this difficulty is grave to me. For example, the hadith and sirah talk about Muhammad performing a pilgrimage, but if Hajj is not a pilgrimage, then why is there so much history of him performing this so called pilgrimage? If we do not believe in hadith, then how do we know anything about the authenticity of the quran. For example, how do we know that Abu Bakr collected the Quran with Zaid that was subsequently used by Uthman? I guess my real question should be "where do we get our history if we reject all hadith?" I suppose an answer could be that only the spiritual authority of the hadith should be rejected, but how does one do that without doubting the credibility of its historical narrative?
Yea I wonder the same thing. Not so much about the pilgrimage, but more about the history of the Quran. But I think the Quran is able to verify itself.
Hadith may be used for historical references. I see no problem there. Also there are other ways to find out about the prophet through archeological research for example. GOD Bless!
peace ichephren,
I'm surprised by these types of questions. The reason for my surprise is because the answers are within us and are easily observable, even today.
Do you not recall what happened to Jesus and Moses for example? Is what they did/said here with us today perfectly intact? Or has it been added, subtracted, embellished etc? Do you not know of any local urban legends/myths in your area? Have you never been in a situation where an event happens and you recall it differently to others?
What if the primary medium for communication was oral (like it was back then) how easily do you think it would be to create stories? It would be much easier! In fact that is the very reason the so-called science/isnad of traditional hadith came about, if there was no distortion there would be no need for checking each report.
The information we need about the messengers are in 'the reading'. Why is it important to know about what The God deemed unworthy to mention and thus left it out? Who knows better? The very first descriptive word used to describe 'al quran' (apart from a writ/kitab) is 'hudan', a guidance, a direction. That is its purpose, plain and simple.
How does one verify a guidance? If you buy a desk with assembly iinstructions, how does one verify the guidance received with the desk is correct/truthful? This is truly the key to understanding this life.
To those who question (like I do), an internal verification system is contained within 'the reading', therefore it becomes irrelevant to know who colelcted it or put it together. It stands on its own, and it can only be defeated on its own. Like most books, like most truths, it is its contents that determine its integrity. The truth can withstand scrutiny of any kind, and in fact, we are encouraged to scrutinise it. That is how its verified.
If you have not already done so, please read a brief account of the history of hadith & sunna within Islam here:
Summary of 'Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought' (http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm)
Wakas
I would never reject Hadith without in depth and proper research and it is in my priorities.
In the meantime check out: The Sacred Hadith project at: (in progress, first 4 chapters online)
www.islamicperspectives.com/HadithProject.htm
One should research properly before having such a solid view .
We are Muslims and just Muslims. Don't make further sects in Islam by the name of Qur'an alone, God alone etc... How can you call it any different that Sunni, Shia etc..., they are also sects and so are Qur'an only, God alone sects . Sectarianism is being portrayed by the posts of some of you. We can't even offer Salat (prayers) if we throw away the Hadith and similarly many other issues are there. ALLAH is watching us, everything is being recorded. Ask yourself , are you right and everybody else is wrong . Are you sure ! I am not sure and that's why I believe we need to research the Qur'an and The Hadith in depth. One example is The Sacred Hadith Project, this gives some idea about the need for proper research.
The 2 extreme views in Islam today are
1. the position that the Qur'an is the only source of Islamic guidance/law
2. the position that the ahadith found in the recognized books are authentic and constitute an independent and binding source of Islamic guidance/law along with the Qur'an
Read the Sacred Hadith Project.
Proper Islamic research is required and it requires Qur'anic research and also the Hadith research and the Sunnah research. Without any exhaustive and in depth research how can somebody be so firm to already take a side , i.e., divide Islam without convincing others with sufficient evidence of an exhaustive research.
I don't want any discussions with people who have already taken sides, just read the Sacred Hadith Project and analyze it with an unbiased mind.
Peace Asim Iqbal,
You have stated your position and made it clear. Good for you. Let's leave it at that. If you wish to start a discussion, then say so, and expect different points of view, instead of...
Quote from: "Asim Iqbal"I don't want any discussions with people who have already taken sides, just read the Sacred Hadith Project and analyze it with an unbiased mind.
Plus, try not to categorize people, just as I'm sure you wouldn't the same to happen to you. You have your views, others have theirs. If you believe that a person believing in God alone and following no religion is somehow a sect, that's your opinion, no need to make any accusations like...
Quote from: "Asim Iqbal"Don't make further sects in Islam by the name of Qur'an alone, God alone etc...
If you wish to stay and discuss in a civil manner, you're more than welcome.
Peace.
Salaam All,
I think what was originally being asked is why trash all hadeeths when they are historical reference.
I think the should be consider "Islamic Literature" reading on Islamic culture, reading on the Prophet's (pbuh) life as known by people around him. I think they are probably great reading no matter how truthful they are. Even if they get fudged, they were fudged by a Islamic Arabic mind - it's like a stamp of the culture.
The problem is... when people start thinking the hadeeths are laws, when people start thinking that the hadeeths are the ONLY way to think about things. They are LITERATURE... mostly non-fictional with a little bit of fiction. Supposedly Beowulf was a true story... not anymore of course. High School students are still made to read it to understand culture and literature.
No, they shouldn't be trashed all together forever. But we can't trust them as law, as total fact, as total understanding. They are historical islamic literature... available only to help us understand the beginnings of Islam in all it's facets but it no way complete truth, complete guidance. Even if it was exact... those are the Prophet's (pbuh) foot steps way back then. I think he would have walked differently had he walked in the world now.
Thanks for reading.
Asim Iqbal believes that followers of the Koran alone are also a sect.
The word "sect" brings to my mind an established group that has a 'head' or spiritual guide somewhere. It is more organized in nature.
The Shiites are a sect because they are an established group with an 'imam' they turn to for guidance, who resides in Iran ( And Iraq recently ) . It's not really surprising that Shiites are allways connected to Iran.... the reasons are historical .
The Sunnites are a sect that follow an established order, whose heads are at Azhar and Saudi Arabia..
Do the progressive muslims form a sect too? do they have an established religious order headed by somone? Does this order have political influence? Or are they just a loose and scattered group of people from all over the world, who share the same vision?
Ask yourself these questions.
If I, as a person, believe in God alone without associating partners to him, and believe in the Koran as the only source of guidance, but practice my beliefs in the privacy of my own bedroom, not giving a damn what other people believe... does that make me part of a sect??
Salaam Pazuzu,
welcom to the forum, even though your avatar is real scary!
You wrote
QuoteIf I, as a person, believe in God alone without associating partners to him, and believe in the Koran as the only source of guidance, but practice my beliefs in the privacy of my own bedroom, not giving a damn what other people believe... does that make me part of a sect??
Not in my opinion, as long as you think by yourself...
LK
salaams!
why trash ahadith at all?
they are wonderful sources of history.
HOWEVER, they are not representative of what God and Prophet said.
AND they are not divine.